GNU bug report logs - #5011
23.1.50; The {}\ characters seems to be impossible to write in non-terminal mode on Mac OS X

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Message #5 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Jules Colding <colding <at> 42tools.com>
To: emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: 23.1.50; The {}\ characters seems to be impossible to write in non-terminal mode on Mac OS X 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:29:55 +0100

Please write in English if possible, because the Emacs maintainers
usually do not have translators to read other languages for them.

Your bug report will be posted to the emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org mailing list.

Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug
and the precise symptoms of the bug.  If you can, give
a recipe starting from `emacs -Q':

Using Emacs in terminal mode (with -nw) on Mac OS X is very pleasant,
but it is impossible to write the {}\ characters in non-terminal
mode. These characters are available in terminal mode using:

S-Alt-7 -> '\'
S-Alt-8 -> '{'
S-Alt-9 -> '}'

Using the same character sequence in non-terminal mode gives:

S-Alt-7 -> M-/
S-Alt-8 -> M-(
S-Alt-9 -> M-)

Best regards,
 jules

If Emacs crashed, and you have the Emacs process in the gdb debugger,
please include the output from the following gdb commands:
   `bt full' and `xbacktrace'.
For information about debugging Emacs, please read the file
/Users/colding/work/src/emacs/nextstep/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/etc/DEBUG.


In GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin10.2.0, NS apple-appkit-1038.25)
of 2009-11-12 on hermes.local
Windowing system distributor `Apple', version 10.3.1038
configured using `configure  '--with-ns' '--without-x' '--without-sound' '--without-dbus''

Important settings:
 value of $LC_ALL: nil
 value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
 value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
 value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
 value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
 value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
 value of $LC_TIME: nil
 value of $LANG: da_DK.UTF-8
 value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
 default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: LaTeX

Minor modes in effect:
 shell-dirtrack-mode: t
 show-paren-mode: t
 desktop-save-mode: t
 tooltip-mode: t
 mouse-wheel-mode: t
 file-name-shadow-mode: t
 global-font-lock-mode: t
 font-lock-mode: t
 global-auto-composition-mode: t
 auto-composition-mode: t
 auto-encryption-mode: t
 auto-compression-mode: t
 line-number-mode: t
 transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC 
O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B 
ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC 
O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B 
ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O A ESC 
O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O B 
ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC 
O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B 
ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC 
O B ESC O B ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A 
ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC 
O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A 
ESC O A { \ } DEL DEL DEL ESC [ 2 4 ~ ESC x s e n d 
TAB TAB DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL 
DEL DEL DEL b u g TAB TAB DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL 
DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL r e p TAB o TAB r t TAB 
RET

Recent messages:
(No files need saving)
Saving file /Users/colding/work/texts/vores_liv.tex...
Wrote /Users/colding/work/texts/vores_liv.tex
Mark set [2 times]
Saving file /Users/colding/work/texts/vores_liv.tex...
Wrote /Users/colding/work/texts/vores_liv.tex
Auto-saving...done
Saving file /Users/colding/work/texts/vores_liv.tex...
Wrote /Users/colding/work/texts/vores_liv.tex
Making completion list... [3 times]

Load-path shadows:
/Users/colding/.emacs.d/elpa/newsticker-1.10/newsticker hides /Users/colding/work/src/emacs/nextstep/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/newsticker

Features:
(shadow mail-extr message ecomplete rfc822 mml mml-sec password-cache
mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mailcap mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045
qp ietf-drums mailabbrev nnheader gnus-util netrc time-date mm-util
mail-prsvr gmm-utils mailheader canlock sha1 hex-util hashcash
mail-utils emacsbug help-mode view skeleton time-stamp newcomment
thingatpt format-spec vc-dispatcher vc-svn tex-mode shell
newsticker-autoloads package reporter paren warnings idl-font-lock
smtpmail sendmail sunrise-commander advice advice-preload derived term
disp-table ehelp electric recentf tree-widget wid-edit esh-var esh-io
esh-cmd esh-ext esh-proc esh-arg eldoc help-fns esh-groups eshell
esh-util esh-module esh-mode dired-x dired-aux cc-mode cc-fonts cc-menus
cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs margin cl cl-19
mpc-mode crosshairs col-highlight vline easy-mmode hl-line+ hl-line
igrep ange-ftp dired regexp-opt grep gpl desktop site-func byte-opt
compile comint ring bytecomp byte-compile tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks
lisp-float-type mwheel ns-win easymenu tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe
lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar
mldrag mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham
georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic
indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple
abbrev loaddefs button minibuffer faces cus-face text-properties overlay
md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget
hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process ns multi-tty
emacs)

Message #10 received at 5011 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andrew Hyatt <ahyatt <at> gmail.com>
To: Jules Colding <colding <at> 42tools.com>
Cc: 5011 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#5011: 23.1.50;
 The {}\ characters seems to be impossible to write in non-terminal
 mode on Mac OS X
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 22:29:16 -0400

Sorry for the late reply, but I'm assuming this must be with a keyboard
that doesn't have a \, {, or }.  Which keyboard do you have, and how
have you set things up so that S-Alt-7,8, or 9 produce these characters?
How can I reproduce this on a standard US keyboard?

Jules Colding <colding <at> 42tools.com> writes:

> Please write in English if possible, because the Emacs maintainers
> usually do not have translators to read other languages for them.
>
> Your bug report will be posted to the emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org mailing list.
>
> Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug
> and the precise symptoms of the bug.  If you can, give
> a recipe starting from `emacs -Q':
>
> Using Emacs in terminal mode (with -nw) on Mac OS X is very pleasant,
> but it is impossible to write the {}\ characters in non-terminal
> mode. These characters are available in terminal mode using:
>
> S-Alt-7 -> '\'
> S-Alt-8 -> '{'
> S-Alt-9 -> '}'
>
> Using the same character sequence in non-terminal mode gives:
>
> S-Alt-7 -> M-/
> S-Alt-8 -> M-(
> S-Alt-9 -> M-)
>
> Best regards,
>  jules
>
> If Emacs crashed, and you have the Emacs process in the gdb debugger,
> please include the output from the following gdb commands:
>    `bt full' and `xbacktrace'.
> For information about debugging Emacs, please read the file
> /Users/colding/work/src/emacs/nextstep/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/etc/DEBUG.
>
>
> In GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin10.2.0, NS apple-appkit-1038.25)
> of 2009-11-12 on hermes.local
> Windowing system distributor `Apple', version 10.3.1038
> configured using `configure  '--with-ns' '--without-x' '--without-sound' '--without-dbus''
>
> Important settings:
>  value of $LC_ALL: nil
>  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
>  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
>  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
>  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
>  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
>  value of $LC_TIME: nil
>  value of $LANG: da_DK.UTF-8
>  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
>  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
>  default enable-multibyte-characters: t
>
> Major mode: LaTeX
>
> Minor modes in effect:
>  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
>  show-paren-mode: t
>  desktop-save-mode: t
>  tooltip-mode: t
>  mouse-wheel-mode: t
>  file-name-shadow-mode: t
>  global-font-lock-mode: t
>  font-lock-mode: t
>  global-auto-composition-mode: t
>  auto-composition-mode: t
>  auto-encryption-mode: t
>  auto-compression-mode: t
>  line-number-mode: t
>  transient-mark-mode: t
>
> Recent input:
> B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC 
> O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B 
> ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC 
> O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B 
> ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O A ESC 
> O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O B 
> ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC 
> O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B 
> ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC O B ESC 
> O B ESC O B ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A 
> ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC 
> O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A ESC O A 
> ESC O A { \ } DEL DEL DEL ESC [ 2 4 ~ ESC x s e n d 
> TAB TAB DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL 
> DEL DEL DEL b u g TAB TAB DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL 
> DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL DEL r e p TAB o TAB r t TAB 
> RET
>
> Recent messages:
> (No files need saving)
> Saving file /Users/colding/work/texts/vores_liv.tex...
> Wrote /Users/colding/work/texts/vores_liv.tex
> Mark set [2 times]
> Saving file /Users/colding/work/texts/vores_liv.tex...
> Wrote /Users/colding/work/texts/vores_liv.tex
> Auto-saving...done
> Saving file /Users/colding/work/texts/vores_liv.tex...
> Wrote /Users/colding/work/texts/vores_liv.tex
> Making completion list... [3 times]
>
> Load-path shadows:
> /Users/colding/.emacs.d/elpa/newsticker-1.10/newsticker hides /Users/colding/work/src/emacs/nextstep/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/newsticker
>
> Features:
> (shadow mail-extr message ecomplete rfc822 mml mml-sec password-cache
> mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mailcap mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045
> qp ietf-drums mailabbrev nnheader gnus-util netrc time-date mm-util
> mail-prsvr gmm-utils mailheader canlock sha1 hex-util hashcash
> mail-utils emacsbug help-mode view skeleton time-stamp newcomment
> thingatpt format-spec vc-dispatcher vc-svn tex-mode shell
> newsticker-autoloads package reporter paren warnings idl-font-lock
> smtpmail sendmail sunrise-commander advice advice-preload derived term
> disp-table ehelp electric recentf tree-widget wid-edit esh-var esh-io
> esh-cmd esh-ext esh-proc esh-arg eldoc help-fns esh-groups eshell
> esh-util esh-module esh-mode dired-x dired-aux cc-mode cc-fonts cc-menus
> cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs margin cl cl-19
> mpc-mode crosshairs col-highlight vline easy-mmode hl-line+ hl-line
> igrep ange-ftp dired regexp-opt grep gpl desktop site-func byte-opt
> compile comint ring bytecomp byte-compile tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks
> lisp-float-type mwheel ns-win easymenu tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe
> lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar
> mldrag mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham
> georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
> korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic
> indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple
> abbrev loaddefs button minibuffer faces cus-face text-properties overlay
> md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget
> hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process ns multi-tty
> emacs)

Message #15 received at 5011 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
To: Andrew Hyatt <ahyatt <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 5011 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Jules Colding <colding <at> 42tools.com>
Subject: Re: bug#5011: 23.1.50;
 The {}\ characters seems to be impossible to write in non-terminal
 mode on Mac OS X
Date: Tue, 17 May 2016 20:35:53 +0100

Andrew Hyatt <ahyatt <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Sorry for the late reply, but I'm assuming this must be with a keyboard
> that doesn't have a \, {, or }.  Which keyboard do you have, and how
> have you set things up so that S-Alt-7,8, or 9 produce these characters?
> How can I reproduce this on a standard US keyboard?

Hi Andrew, this is a clash between OS X's keymap and Emacs's.

On an Apple UK keyboard if you type shift-3 you get £ (pound sterling
symbol, in case it doesn't show), but # is on the same key, so you have
to type option-3 to get it. Emacs treats option as Meta and therefore in
Emacs typing option-3 results in the next command being repeated 3 times
and no # symbol.

I think the reported bug is exactly the same problem but on a different
keyboard layout.

There are a number of work-arounds including making the command key meta
instead of option, or unbinding the right option key so Emacs ignores it
and OS X's binding works, but leaving left-option bound to meta.

None of them strike me as being an obvious candidate for the default,
but the current behaviour is not good either.
-- 
Alan Third

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