GNU bug report logs - #22746
25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Adrian Robert <adrian.b.robert <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 10:50:10 +0200

The visual bell on OS X used to be a large square popped up in the middle of
the screen, which was easy to see.  Now it is a very small warning icon, and I
often miss it.  Would it be possible to make the warning icon the same size as
the square was, or if the icon can only be rendered at that size, provide an
option for the old square?






In GNU Emacs 25.0.90.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0, NS appkit-1265.21 Version 10.9.5 (Build 13F1077))
of 2016-02-01 built on vishuddha.local
Repository revision: ee8b46699523cc1dea7b3d03e3cccff3d62cd847
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1265
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Message #8 received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Anders Lindgren <andlind <at> gmail.com>
To: adrian.b.robert <at> gmail.com, 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 13:58:48 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi!

> The visual bell on OS X used to be a large square popped up in the middle
of
> the screen, which was easy to see.  Now it is a very small warning icon,
and I
> often miss it.  Would it be possible to make the warning icon the same
size as
> the square was, or if the icon can only be rendered at that size, provide
an
> option for the old square?

The old code didn't work on El Capitan -- there were some visual artifacts
left behind afterwards.

Since I didn't have access to a machine running El Capitan, I replaced the
code with something that work on all OS versions.

It might be possible to increase the size -- however, the symbol is a
built-in image so there is a risk that an enlarged version will be
pixelated.

I'm open to other solutions to this. Unfortunately, I don't have the time
to work on it myself anymore.

    -- Anders

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #11 received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Xu Xin <railwaycat <at> gmail.com>
To: Anders Lindgren <andlind <at> gmail.com>
Cc: adrian.b.robert <at> gmail.com, 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 10:18:44 -0500

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Anders Lindgren <andlind <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
>> The visual bell on OS X used to be a large square popped up in the middle
>> of
>> the screen, which was easy to see.  Now it is a very small warning icon,
>> and I
>> often miss it.  Would it be possible to make the warning icon the same
>> size as
>> the square was, or if the icon can only be rendered at that size, provide
>> an
>> option for the old square?
>
> The old code didn't work on El Capitan -- there were some visual artifacts
> left behind afterwards.
>
> Since I didn't have access to a machine running El Capitan, I replaced the
> code with something that work on all OS versions.
>
> It might be possible to increase the size -- however, the symbol is a
> built-in image so there is a risk that an enlarged version will be
> pixelated.
>
> I'm open to other solutions to this. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to
> work on it myself anymore.
>
>     -- Anders
>

Emacs mac port has the option to flash the top line and mini buffer as
visible bell, can we introduce this feature to Nextstep port?

- Xin

Message #14 received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com>
To: Xu Xin <railwaycat <at> gmail.com>
Cc: adrian.b.robert <at> gmail.com, 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Anders Lindgren <andlind <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2016 15:17:52 -0800

>>>>> Xu Xin <railwaycat <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Emacs mac port has the option to flash the top line and mini buffer as
> visible bell, can we introduce this feature to Nextstep port?

I'd like this too, although now that the visual bell icon is bigger, it's been
working for me.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Message #17 received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
To: John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Xu Xin <railwaycat <at> gmail.com>, adrian.b.robert <at> gmail.com,
 John Wiegley <johnw <at> gnu.org>, Anders Lindgren <andlind <at> gmail.com>,
 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
Date: Sun, 08 May 2016 10:15:08 +0100

John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com> writes:

>>>>>> Xu Xin <railwaycat <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Emacs mac port has the option to flash the top line and mini buffer as
>> visible bell, can we introduce this feature to Nextstep port?
>
> I'd like this too, although now that the visual bell icon is bigger, it's been
> working for me.

What would be the ideal visible bell? The top and bottom lines flashing
or flashing the entire window, or do people like the warning icon?
-- 
Alan Third

Message #20 received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com>
To: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
Cc: Xu Xin <railwaycat <at> gmail.com>, adrian.b.robert <at> gmail.com,
 Anders Lindgren <andlind <at> gmail.com>, 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 11:20:03 -0700

>>>>> Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org> writes:

> What would be the ideal visible bell? The top and bottom lines flashing or
> flashing the entire window, or do people like the warning icon?

Personally I'd prefer top and bottom lines. Every better: give me a defcustom
to decide between icon, top/bottom, whole screen, or some alerting function
(which in future would allow for connecting with alert.el).

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Message #23 received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com>, Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
Cc: Xu Xin <railwaycat <at> gmail.com>, adrian.b.robert <at> gmail.com,
 Anders Lindgren <andlind <at> gmail.com>, 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 12:17:15 -0700 (PDT)

> > What would be the ideal visible bell? The top and bottom lines flashing or
> > flashing the entire window, or do people like the warning icon?
> 
> Personally I'd prefer top and bottom lines. Every better: give me a
> defcustom to decide between icon, top/bottom, whole screen, or some
> alerting function (which in future would allow for connecting with alert.el).

+1.  And not just for OS X.

It could also incorporate what echo-bell.el does, or similar,
as one of the option values.

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/echo-bell.el

Message #26 received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: Xu Xin <railwaycat <at> gmail.com>, John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com>,
 adrian.b.robert <at> gmail.com, Anders Lindgren <andlind <at> gmail.com>,
 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 16:41:54 +0100

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:17:15PM -0700, Drew Adams wrote:
> > > What would be the ideal visible bell? The top and bottom lines flashing or
> > > flashing the entire window, or do people like the warning icon?
> > 
> > Personally I'd prefer top and bottom lines. Every better: give me a
> > defcustom to decide between icon, top/bottom, whole screen, or some
> > alerting function (which in future would allow for connecting with alert.el).
> 
> +1.  And not just for OS X.
> 
> It could also incorporate what echo-bell.el does, or similar,
> as one of the option values.

Am I right in thinking that this would just require exposing the bell
functions to Emacs lisp, and then providing a simple way to set
ring-bell-function? Or have I misunderstood?
-- 
Alan Third

Message #29 received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
Cc: Xu Xin <railwaycat <at> gmail.com>, John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com>,
 adrian.b.robert <at> gmail.com, Anders Lindgren <andlind <at> gmail.com>,
 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 08:45:43 -0700 (PDT)

> > > > What would be the ideal visible bell? The top and bottom lines
> flashing or
> > > > flashing the entire window, or do people like the warning icon?
> > >
> > > Personally I'd prefer top and bottom lines. Every better: give me a
> > > defcustom to decide between icon, top/bottom, whole screen, or some
> > > alerting function (which in future would allow for connecting with
> alert.el).
> >
> > +1.  And not just for OS X.
> >
> > It could also incorporate what echo-bell.el does, or similar,
> > as one of the option values.
> 
> Am I right in thinking that this would just require exposing the bell
> functions to Emacs lisp, and then providing a simple way to set
> ring-bell-function? Or have I misunderstood?

Are you asking me?  I only suggested perhaps incorporating something
like what echo-bell does, as one of the possible visual-bell behaviors
for the defcustom.

There already is an easy way to set `ring-bell-function', so I'm really
not sure what you are asking.

Message #32 received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: Xu Xin <railwaycat <at> gmail.com>, John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com>,
 adrian.b.robert <at> gmail.com, Anders Lindgren <andlind <at> gmail.com>,
 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 17:03:11 +0100

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 08:45:43AM -0700, Drew Adams wrote:
> > > > > What would be the ideal visible bell? The top and bottom lines
> > flashing or
> > > > > flashing the entire window, or do people like the warning icon?
> > > >
> > > > Personally I'd prefer top and bottom lines. Every better: give me a
> > > > defcustom to decide between icon, top/bottom, whole screen, or some
> > > > alerting function (which in future would allow for connecting with
> > alert.el).
> > >
> > > +1.  And not just for OS X.
> > >
> > > It could also incorporate what echo-bell.el does, or similar,
> > > as one of the option values.
> > 
> > Am I right in thinking that this would just require exposing the bell
> > functions to Emacs lisp, and then providing a simple way to set
> > ring-bell-function? Or have I misunderstood?
> 
> Are you asking me?

Sorry, I probably should have responded directly to John.

> There already is an easy way to set `ring-bell-function', so I'm really
> not sure what you are asking.

This is why I'm not sure why John's asking for a way to tie in an
alerting function. It's already there.
-- 
Alan Third

Message #35 received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com>
To: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>
Cc: Xu Xin <railwaycat <at> gmail.com>, Anders Lindgren <andlind <at> gmail.com>,
 adrian.b.robert <at> gmail.com, 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 09:39:02 -0700

>>>>> Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org> writes:

>> There already is an easy way to set `ring-bell-function', so I'm really not
>> sure what you are asking.

> This is why I'm not sure why John's asking for a way to tie in an alerting
> function. It's already there.

Sorry, I just didn't know about it. :)

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Message #40 received at 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Toon Claes <toon <at> iotcl.com>
To: John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org>, 22746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Xu Xin <railwaycat <at> gmail.com>, adrian.b.robert <at> gmail.com,
 Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>, Anders Lindgren <andlind <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#22746: 25.0.90; OS X: Visual bell hard to see
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2016 00:00:52 +0200

John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Alan Third <alan <at> idiocy.org> writes:
>
>>> There already is an easy way to set `ring-bell-function', so I'm really not
>>> sure what you are asking.
>
> Sorry, I just didn't know about it. :)

So, do we keep the current behavior and rely on third-party packages
like echo-bell.el to customize the behavior?

Or, if we should chose to customize built-in the behavior, maybe a few more
settings should be considered:
 - Duration: Compared to echo-bell-mode, the default warning sign is
 shown way too long. A configurable duration would be nice.
 - Image: Maybe people also would like to specify the image shown as
 visible bell (e.g. Pikachu: https://twitter.com/ErgoEmacs/status/759546738306748416/photo/1 )

TBH, I suggest to keep the current behavior and let user to set
`ring-bell-function' if they like something different.

Regards,
Toon

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