GNU bug report logs - #12886
23.2; wrong message for "apropos"

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Mark A. Mandel <mamandel <at> ldc.upenn.edu>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 23.2; wrong message for "apropos"
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 12:14:04 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

**When I hit ctl-C ctl-C to send the bug report, the message-ID came up as you see below. So I've copied the whole message and am sending it through the regular office email. Consider yourselves tickled.**

-----------------------------

From: Mark Mandel <mamandel <at> ldc.upenn.edu>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Cc: Mark Mandel <mamandel <at> ldc.upenn.edu>
Subject: 23.2; wrong message for "apropos"
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 12:07:24 -0500
Message-ID: <ev5j7amwykxgdv.fsf <at> Mark-Mandels-iMac-2.local.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>
--text follows this line--
I am used to using ctl-H ctl-A for "apropos", i.e., find commands by
looking for substrings. But when I use ctl-H ctl-A I see (what I guess
is) the Gnu Emacs welcome or general info screen, and the minibuffer says something like
"To search for help on a subject, use ctl-H ctl-A": that is, "Keep
hitting your head against this wall." I tried it several times, with the
same dumb result. 

Then I tried ctl-H A, which is in the ctl-H ? help command list. That
worked, and *that*'s what the minibuffer should say under the general
info screen.

My email address is mamandel <at> ldc.upenn.edu, not the almost certainly
useless address that this bug report command put into the "From:" line 
(mamandel <at> Mark-Mandels-iMac-2.local). So I have changed it up there and
also added my address as Cc.

-- Mark A. Mandel



In GNU Emacs 23.2.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin, NS apple-appkit-1038.29)
 of 2010-05-08 on black.local
Windowing system distributor `Apple', version 10.3.1038
configured using `configure  '--host=x86_64-apple-darwin' '--build=i686-apple-darwin' '--with-ns' 'build_alias=i686-apple-darwin' 'host_alias=x86_64-apple-darwin' 'CC=gcc -mmacosx-version-min=10.5''

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: nil
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: nil
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Apropos

Minor modes in effect:
  show-paren-mode: t
  display-time-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
s-v <help-echo> <wheel-up> <double-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
<triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
<triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
<triple-wheel-up> <wheel-up> <double-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
s-= s-= s-= <help-echo> <wheel-up> <wheel-up> <wheel-up> 
<wheel-up> <wheel-up> <double-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
<triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
<triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
<triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
<triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
<triple-wheel-up> <down-mouse-1> <mouse-movement> <mouse-movement> 
<drag-mouse-1> <escape> x b <return> <down-mouse-1> 
<mouse-movement> <mouse-movement> <drag-mouse-1> <escape> 
x b <return> <down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> 1 . SPC <down-mouse-1> 
<mouse-1> 2 . SPC <down-mouse-1> <mouse-movement> <mouse-movement> 
<drag-mouse-1> <backspace> <down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> 
<backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <down-mouse-1> 
<mouse-movement> <mouse-movement> <drag-mouse-1> <escape> 
x b <return> <down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> 3 . SPC <down-mouse-1> 
<mouse-movement> <mouse-movement> <drag-mouse-1> <escape> 
x b <return> <wheel-down> <double-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> 
<triple-wheel-down> <wheel-up> <double-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
<wheel-down> <wheel-down> <down-mouse-1> <mouse-movement> 
<mouse-movement> <drag-mouse-1> <down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> 
<down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> . s-a s-c <wheel-up> s-v <return> 
C-SPC <escape> > C-w <wheel-up> <double-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
<triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> <wheel-down> <wheel-down> 
<down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> <escape> x w r a p <tab> <backspace> 
<backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <down-mouse-1> 
<mouse-movement> <mouse-movement> <mouse-movement> 
<mouse-movement> <mouse-movement> <drag-mouse-1> C-g 
C-h C-a C-g <return> C-x b <down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> 
C-h C-a C-h C-a <return> C-b C-g C-x b <return> C-h 
a C-g C-c C-h C-x C-g C-g C-g <help-echo> <help-echo> 
<down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> C-x 0 <down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> 
<wheel-up> <double-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
<triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
C-h C-a <help-echo> <down-mouse-1> <drag-mouse-1> <help-echo> 
C-g C-b C-g C-z C-x b <return> C-x 1 C-h a r e g i 
o n <return> <help-echo> <wheel-down> <double-wheel-down> 
<triple-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> 
<wheel-up> <double-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> <wheel-up> 
<double-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
<wheel-down> <double-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> 
<triple-wheel-down> <wheel-up> <double-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> 
<wheel-up> <double-wheel-up> <triple-wheel-up> <wheel-down> 
<double-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> 
<triple-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> <wheel-down> 
<double-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> 
<triple-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> 
<wheel-down> <double-wheel-down> <wheel-up> <double-wheel-up> 
<wheel-down> <double-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> 
<triple-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> <triple-wheel-down> 
<wheel-up> <wheel-up> <wheel-up> C-h a w r a p <return> 
C-x 0 <menu-bar> <help-menu> <send-emacs-bug-repor
t>

Recent messages:
call-interactively: Command attempted to use minibuffer while in minibuffer
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. [2 times]
Buffer is read-only: #<buffer *About GNU Emacs*>
Quit [2 times]
Type C-x 1 to delete the help window.
Quit [2 times]
byte-code: Beginning of buffer [4 times]
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Quit [2 times]
Type C-x 1 to remove help window.  
byte-code: End of buffer [3 times]

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr message ecomplete rfc822 mml mml-sec
password-cache mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mailcap mail-parse rfc2231
rfc2047 rfc2045 qp ietf-drums mailabbrev nnheader gnus-util netrc
time-date mm-util mail-prsvr gmm-utils wid-edit mailheader canlock sha1
hex-util hashcash mail-utils emacsbug help-mode view apropos paren
cus-start cus-load time tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type
mwheel ns-win easymenu tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe lisp-mode
register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mldrag mouse
jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian
utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean
japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian
cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev
loaddefs button minibuffer faces cus-face files text-properties overlay
md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget
hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process ns multi-tty
emacs)

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #8 received at 12886 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Mark A. Mandel <mamandel <at> ldc.upenn.edu>
Cc: 12886 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#12886: 23.2; wrong message for "apropos"
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:35:19 -0500

Mark A. Mandel wrote:

> I am used to using ctl-H ctl-A for "apropos", i.e., find commands by
> looking for substrings.

I can't find any version of Emacs in which C-h C-a runs apropos.
I went back as far as 21.1.

>  But when I use ctl-H ctl-A I see (what I guess is) the Gnu Emacs
> welcome or general info screen

Yes, C-h C-a runs `about-emacs' since Emacs 22.2. Before that, it was
undefined.

> , and the minibuffer says something like "To search for help on a
> subject, use ctl-H ctl-A":

As we can see below in the *Messages* output, it actually says:

  For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.

which is true, but pointless, so the messages was removed recently
and will be gone in Emacs 24.3. http://debbugs.gnu.org/12680

> Then I tried ctl-H A, which is in the ctl-H ? help command list. That
> worked, and *that*'s what the minibuffer should say under the general
> info screen.

I disagree that the about-emacs screen needs to mention apropos.

> In GNU Emacs 23.2.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin, NS apple-appkit-1038.29)
>  of 2010-05-08 on black.local
[...]
> Recent messages:
> call-interactively: Command attempted to use minibuffer while in minibuffer
> For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. [2 times]

Message #13 received at 12886 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Mark A. Mandel" <mamandel <at> ldc.upenn.edu>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 12886 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#12886: 23.2; wrong message for "apropos"
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:44:17 -0500

On 12.11.14, at 13:35, Glenn Morris wrote:

> Mark A. Mandel wrote:
> 
>> I am used to using ctl-H ctl-A for "apropos", i.e., find commands by
>> looking for substrings.
> 
> I can't find any version of Emacs in which C-h C-a runs apropos.
> I went back as far as 21.1.

I'm sorry, then. I must be misremembering that.
> 
>> But when I use ctl-H ctl-A I see (what I guess is) the Gnu Emacs
>> welcome or general info screen
> 
> Yes, C-h C-a runs `about-emacs' since Emacs 22.2. Before that, it was
> undefined.
> 
>> , and the minibuffer says something like "To search for help on a
>> subject, use ctl-H ctl-A":
> 
> As we can see below in the *Messages* output, it actually says:
> 
>  For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.

Oh, heck.

> which is true, but pointless, so the messages was removed recently
> and will be gone in Emacs 24.3. http://debbugs.gnu.org/12680
> 
>> Then I tried ctl-H A, which is in the ctl-H ? help command list. That
>> worked, and *that*'s what the minibuffer should say under the general
>> info screen.
> 
> I disagree that the about-emacs screen needs to mention apropos.

:-(  Yeah. My whole report only makes sense if ctl-H ctl-A is supposed to
get you to apropos.  I didn't try to reproduce the problem because I was 
afraid I'd be bumped out of the bug report window, so I was working from 
memory. And since I'd been looking for apropos, I took "information 
about GNU Emacs and the GNU system" as being a description of
apropos, which is only true in the most general sense. 

Summary: Ow, sorry for wasting your time. 

Mark Mandel

> 
>> In GNU Emacs 23.2.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin, NS apple-appkit-1038.29)
>> of 2010-05-08 on black.local
> [...]
>> Recent messages:
>> call-interactively: Command attempted to use minibuffer while in minibuffer
>> For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. [2 times]

Message #16 received at 12886 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: "Mark A. Mandel" <mamandel <at> ldc.upenn.edu>, 12886 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#12886: 23.2; wrong message for "apropos"
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:58:04 -0500

>> I am used to using ctl-H ctl-A for "apropos", i.e., find commands by
>> looking for substrings.
> I can't find any version of Emacs in which C-h C-a runs apropos.
> I went back as far as 21.1.

Debian's `emacs19' doesn't either ;-)


        Stefan

Message #19 received at 12886 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Mark A. Mandel" <mamandel <at> ldc.upenn.edu>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, 12886 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#12886: 23.2; wrong message for "apropos"
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:18:57 -0500

Yeah, I know... now. :-$ I replied to the first answer. Should I put it up at the site or is it already there? I don't even know how to access it outside of the bug report command in emacs.
-- Mark

On 12.11.14, at 14:58, Stefan Monnier wrote:

>>> I am used to using ctl-H ctl-A for "apropos", i.e., find commands by
>>> looking for substrings.
>> I can't find any version of Emacs in which C-h C-a runs apropos.
>> I went back as far as 21.1.
> 
> Debian's `emacs19' doesn't either ;-)
> 
> 
>        Stefan

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