GNU bug report logs - #76195
Obsoleting mail/hashcash.el

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: Obsoleting mail/hashcash.el
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 22:40:26 -0800

Severity: wishlist

The mail/hashcash.el library implements an Emacs wrapper around
hashcash, where the idea was that you added a small amount of "proof of
work" to an Email header, which if everyone used it would be expensive
for spammers:

     "The email anti-spam tool, like the proof-of-work algorithm, is
     also called hashcash and is used to create stamps to attach to mail
     to add a micro-cost to sending mail to deter spamming.  The main
     use of the hashcash stamp is as a white-listing hint to help
     hashcash users avoid losing email due to content based and
     blacklist based anti-spam systems."  - http://www.hashcash.org

This might be nice in theory, but it is irrelevant as an anti-spam
measure on today's internet, since almost no one uses it.  Let's not
mislead users to waste energy using it.

I suggest that we mark it as obsolete.

Message #8 received at 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76195: Obsoleting mail/hashcash.el
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 11:51:30 +0100

Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:

Hi Stefan,

> This might be nice in theory, but it is irrelevant as an anti-spam
> measure on today's internet, since almost no one uses it.  Let's not
> mislead users to waste energy using it.
>
> I suggest that we mark it as obsolete.

There is also bug#66795. It is an evidence, that hashcash is used in
Emacs. OTOH, there's nobody who is able to fix this.

So I support your proposal.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #11 received at 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Andrew Cohen <acohen <at> ust.hk>, Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>,
 "Dirk-Jan C. Binnema" <djcb <at> djcbsoftware.nl>, Bill Wohler <wohler <at> newt.com>,
 David Bremner <david <at> tethera.net>
Subject: Re: Obsoleting mail/hashcash.el
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 06:55:19 -0800

Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Severity: wishlist
>
> The mail/hashcash.el library implements an Emacs wrapper around
> hashcash, where the idea was that you added a small amount of "proof of
> work" to an Email header, which if everyone used it would be expensive
> for spammers:
>
>      "The email anti-spam tool, like the proof-of-work algorithm, is
>      also called hashcash and is used to create stamps to attach to mail
>      to add a micro-cost to sending mail to deter spamming.  The main
>      use of the hashcash stamp is as a white-listing hint to help
>      hashcash users avoid losing email due to content based and
>      blacklist based anti-spam systems."  - http://www.hashcash.org
>
> This might be nice in theory, but it is irrelevant as an anti-spam
> measure on today's internet, since almost no one uses it.  Let's not
> mislead users to waste energy using it.
>
> I suggest that we mark it as obsolete.

I'm Cc'ing Gnus, MH-E, Notmuch (third-party), and mu4e (third-party)
developers, in case they have any comments.

Message #14 received at 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: "Dirk-Jan C. Binnema" <djcb <at> djcbsoftware.nl>
Cc: 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: Obsoleting mail/hashcash.el
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 07:25:16 -0800

"Dirk-Jan C. Binnema" <djcb <at> djcbsoftware.nl> writes:

> On Tuesday Feb 11 2025, Stefan Kangas wrote:
>
>> I'm Cc'ing Gnus, MH-E, Notmuch (third-party), and mu4e (third-party)
>> developers, in case they have any comments.
>
> Thanks for reaching out.
>
> I can only find a single user in my e-mail corpus, from 2006. So as far
> as I'm concerned, it can be obsoleted.
>
> Kind regards,
> Dirk.
>
> --
> Dirk-Jan C. Binnema                  Helsinki, Finland
> e:djcb <at> djcbsoftware.nl           w:www.djcbsoftware.nl
> gpg: 6987 9CED 1745 9375 0F14 DA98 11DD FEA9 DCC4 A036

Thanks for telling us your opinion.

Message #17 received at 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: David Bremner <david <at> tethera.net>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>, 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Andrew Cohen <acohen <at> ust.hk>, Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>,
 "Dirk-Jan C. Binnema" <djcb <at> djcbsoftware.nl>, Bill Wohler <wohler <at> newt.com>
Subject: Re: Obsoleting mail/hashcash.el
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 13:28:36 -0400

Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> I suggest that we mark it as obsolete.
>
> I'm Cc'ing Gnus, MH-E, Notmuch (third-party), and mu4e (third-party)
> developers, in case they have any comments.

No comments for me (except it makes me a bit nostalgic).

d

Message #20 received at 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Andrew Cohen <acohen <at> ust.hk>, Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
Subject: Re: Obsoleting mail/hashcash.el
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 16:05:06 -0800

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

tags 76195 + patch
thanks

Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Severity: wishlist
>
> The mail/hashcash.el library implements an Emacs wrapper around
> hashcash, where the idea was that you added a small amount of "proof of
> work" to an Email header, which if everyone used it would be expensive
> for spammers:
>
>      "The email anti-spam tool, like the proof-of-work algorithm, is
>      also called hashcash and is used to create stamps to attach to mail
>      to add a micro-cost to sending mail to deter spamming.  The main
>      use of the hashcash stamp is as a white-listing hint to help
>      hashcash users avoid losing email due to content based and
>      blacklist based anti-spam systems."  - http://www.hashcash.org
>
> This might be nice in theory, but it is irrelevant as an anti-spam
> measure on today's internet, since almost no one uses it.  Let's not
> mislead users to waste energy using it.
>
> I suggest that we mark it as obsolete.

Here are three proposed patches.

[0001-Drop-hashcash-support.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]

[0002-Move-hashcash.el-to-lisp-obsolete.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]

[0003-Add-Obsolete-since-header-to-hashcash.el.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]

Message #25 received at 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bill Wohler <wohler <at> newt.com>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Andrew Cohen <acohen <at> ust.hk>, "Dirk-Jan
 C. Binnema" <djcb <at> djcbsoftware.nl>, Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>,
 mh-e-devel <at> lists.sourceforge.net, David Bremner <david <at> tethera.net>,
 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: Obsoleting mail/hashcash.el
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 19:47:53 -0800

Thanks, Stefan. No objections from me (MH-E).

You don't need to remove the following line in mh-e.el (in Emacs). It is
in a list of invisible header fields and does not depend on the hashcash
package in Emacs.

    "X-Hashcash:"                       ; hashcash

Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > Severity: wishlist
> >
> > The mail/hashcash.el library implements an Emacs wrapper around
> > hashcash, where the idea was that you added a small amount of "proof of
> > work" to an Email header, which if everyone used it would be expensive
> > for spammers:
> >
> >      "The email anti-spam tool, like the proof-of-work algorithm, is
> >      also called hashcash and is used to create stamps to attach to mail
> >      to add a micro-cost to sending mail to deter spamming.  The main
> >      use of the hashcash stamp is as a white-listing hint to help
> >      hashcash users avoid losing email due to content based and
> >      blacklist based anti-spam systems."  - http://www.hashcash.org
> >
> > This might be nice in theory, but it is irrelevant as an anti-spam
> > measure on today's internet, since almost no one uses it.  Let's not
> > mislead users to waste energy using it.
> >
> > I suggest that we mark it as obsolete.
> 
> I'm Cc'ing Gnus, MH-E, Notmuch (third-party), and mu4e (third-party)
> developers, in case they have any comments.
> 

-- 
Bill Wohler <wohler <at> newt.com> aka <Bill.Wohler <at> nasa.gov>
http://www.newt.com/wohler/, GnuPG ID:610BD9AD

Message #28 received at 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andrew Cohen <acohen <at> ust.hk>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>, 76195 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, "Dirk-Jan
 C. Binnema" <djcb <at> djcbsoftware.nl>, Bill Wohler <wohler <at> newt.com>,
 David Bremner <david <at> tethera.net>
Subject: Re: Obsoleting mail/hashcash.el
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 08:29:52 +0800

>>>>> "SK" == Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:

    SK> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:
    >> Severity: wishlist
    >> 
    >> The mail/hashcash.el library implements an Emacs wrapper around
    >> hashcash, where the idea was that you added a small amount of
    >> "proof of work" to an Email header, which if everyone used it
    >> would be expensive for spammers:
    >> 

[...]

    >> This might be nice in theory, but it is irrelevant as an
    >> anti-spam measure on today's internet, since almost no one uses
    >> it.  Let's not mislead users to waste energy using it.
    >> 
    >> I suggest that we mark it as obsolete.

An informal survey on emacs.gnus.general suggests no one is using it
(although only a tiny number of responses).

I suggest making to obsolete.

Best,
Andy
-- 
Andrew Cohen

Message #33 received at 76195-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Andrew Cohen <acohen <at> ust.hk>
Cc: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>,
 David Bremner <david <at> tethera.net>, 76195-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Bill Wohler <wohler <at> newt.com>, "Dirk-Jan C. Binnema" <djcb <at> djcbsoftware.nl>
Subject: Re: Obsoleting mail/hashcash.el
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 21:53:47 +0000

Version: 31.1

Andrew Cohen <acohen <at> ust.hk> writes:

>>>>>> "SK" == Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>     SK> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:
>     >> Severity: wishlist
>     >>
>     >> The mail/hashcash.el library implements an Emacs wrapper around
>     >> hashcash, where the idea was that you added a small amount of
>     >> "proof of work" to an Email header, which if everyone used it
>     >> would be expensive for spammers:
>     >>
>
> [...]
>
>     >> This might be nice in theory, but it is irrelevant as an
>     >> anti-spam measure on today's internet, since almost no one uses
>     >> it.  Let's not mislead users to waste energy using it.
>     >>
>     >> I suggest that we mark it as obsolete.
>
> An informal survey on emacs.gnus.general suggests no one is using it
> (although only a tiny number of responses).
>
> I suggest making to obsolete.

Thanks!  Done in commit 250f4214752, 074b32d53f7, and 706970fc25d.

I'm therefore closing this bug report.

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