GNU bug report logs -
#43887
28.0.50; in HELLO: Javanese (Jawa) System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
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Reported by: Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2020 16:57:01 UTC
Severity: minor
Merged with 33178
Found in version 28.0.50
Fixed in version 28.1
Done: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.
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bug#43887; Package
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Acknowledgement sent
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Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org.
(Fri, 09 Oct 2020 16:57:02 GMT)
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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
I see this when HELLO is displayed:
Javanese (Jawa) System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 16, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.12, cairo version 1.14.8)
of 2020-10-01 built on protected.rcdrun.com
Repository revision: 0aa1e2d9d03cf4c10b58c64067620bb99a41f9e9
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11907000
System Description: Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre
Configured using:
'configure --prefix=/package/text/emacs-2020-10-01 --with-modules
--without-gpm'
Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY
INOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ M17N_FLT LIBOTF ZLIB
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS JSON PDUMPER
LCMS2
Important settings:
value of $LC_ALL: de_DE.UTF-8
value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8
value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=exwm-xim
locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
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Features:
(shadow mailalias emacsbug thai-util thai-word mule-util lao-util
enriched hywconfig misearch multi-isearch sql winner org-element
avl-tree ol-w3m ol-rmail ol-mhe ol-irc ol-info ol-gnus nnir ol-eww
ol-docview ol-bibtex bibtex ol-bbdb ob-dot ob-lisp ob-perl ob-scheme
ob-shell shell ob-sql ob-ditaa ob-plantuml zoom timeclock strokes
paren scroll-all immortal-scratch helm-mode helm-files helm-buffers
helm-occur helm-tags helm-locate helm-grep wgrep-helm wgrep grep
helm-regexp helm-utils helm-help helm-types elec-pair time battery
cus-start cus-load windmove emms-librefm-stream emms-librefm-scrobbler
emms-playlist-limit emms-volume emms-volume-mixerctl emms-volume-pulse
emms-volume-amixer emms-i18n emms-history emms-score emms-stream-info
emms-metaplaylist-mode emms-bookmarks emms-cue emms-mode-line-icon
emms-browser sort emms-playlist-sort emms-last-played emms-player-xine
emms-player-mpd tq emms-playing-time emms-lyrics emms-url emms-streams
emms-show-all emms-tag-editor emms-mark emms-mode-line emms-cache
emms-info-exiftool emms-info-tinytag emms-info-metaflac
emms-info-opusinfo emms-info-ogginfo emms-info-mp3info emms-info
emms-later-do emms-playlist-mode emms-player-vlc emms-player-mpv
emms-player-mplayer emms-player-simple emms-source-playlist
emms-source-file emms-setup emms emms-compat rcd-sent-folder
gold-price maildir qp maildir-index noflet cl-indent dotassoc kv bbdb
bbdb-site timezone termux chart rcd/business jabber
jabber-notifications notifications jabber-libnotify jabber-awesome
jabber-osd jabber-wmii jabber-xmessage jabber-festival jabber-sawfish
jabber-ratpoison jabber-tmux jabber-screen jabber-socks5
jabber-ft-server jabber-si-server jabber-ft-client jabber-ft-common
jabber-si-client jabber-si-common jabber-feature-neg jabber-truncate
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jabber-events jabber-vcard jabber-avatar jabber-activity jabber-watch
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jabber-ourversion jabber-muc-nick-completion hippie-exp jabber-browse
jabber-search jabber-register jabber-roster jabber-presence jabber-muc
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jabber-chatbuffer jabber-alert jabber-iq jabber-core jabber-console
sgml-mode ewoc jabber-keymap jabber-sasl sasl sasl-anonymous
sasl-login sasl-plain fsm jabber-logon jabber-conn srv dns starttls
tls gnutls jabber-xml jabber-menu jabber-util org-id org-refile
dired-x rcd/percentages helm helm-source helm-multi-match helm-lib
rcd-db pq time-stamp units festival persistent-scratch
google-translate google-translate-default-ui google-translate-core-ui
google-translate-core google-translate-tk google-translate-backend
helm-config async-bytecomp async mu4e desktop frameset mu4e-speedbar
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mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig gnus-sum shr kinsoku svg dom
gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-dbus dbus xml gnus-cloud nnimap
nnmail mail-source utf7 netrc nnoo parse-time iso8601 gnus-spec
gnus-int gnus-range gnus-win gnus nnheader wid-edit mu4e-headers
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sendmail mu4e-mark mu4e-message flow-fill mu4e-proc mu4e-utils
doc-view jka-compr image-mode exif mu4e-lists mu4e-vars message rmc
puny rfc822 mml mml-sec epa epg epg-config gnus-util rmail
rmail-loaddefs mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231
rfc2047 rfc2045 mm-util ietf-drums mail-prsvr mail-utils gmm-utils
mailheader hl-line mu4e-meta mh-e mh-compat mailabbrev mh-buffers
mh-loaddefs mutt-alias eshell esh-cmd esh-ext esh-opt esh-proc esh-io
esh-arg esh-module esh-groups esh-util guide-key s popwin hyperbole
hinit hibtypes hib-doc-id hsys-org hsys-www klink hib-kbd hib-social
hib-debbugs hactypes hui-mini hui hui-mouse hmouse-key hargs hui-menu
hyrolo-menu hyrolo hmail hui-jmenu hmouse-sh hmouse-drv hypb locate
hui-window pulse hycontrol hsettings hui-em-but hbut view hact hpath
hhist hbdata htz cal-julian hbmap hmoccur hui-select hvar set hversion
hload-path vterm derived face-remap compile text-property-search color
term disp-table ehelp vterm-module sxiv dash dired dired-loaddefs aio
url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history
url-cookie url-domsuf url-util mailcap rx generator saveplace edmacro
exwm-config ido exwm exwm-input xcb-keysyms xcb-xkb exwm-manage
exwm-floating xcb-cursor xcb-render exwm-layout exwm-workspace
exwm-core xcb-ewmh xcb-icccm xcb xcb-xproto xcb-types xcb-debug kmacro
server finder-inf cl-extra help-mode org ob ob-ref ob-lob ob-table
ob-exp org-macro org-footnote org-pcomplete pcomplete org-list
org-faces org-entities time-date noutline outline easy-mmode
org-version ob-emacs-lisp org-table org-loaddefs find-func cal-menu
calendar cal-loaddefs ob-tangle ol org-src org-keys ob-comint comint
ansi-color ring ob-core org-compat ob-eval org-macs format-spec
org-install tex-site gh-common marshal eieio-compat helm-easymenu
kotl-autoloads advice slime-autoloads cl info package easymenu
browse-url url-handlers url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core
cl-macs eieio-loaddefs password-cache json subr-x map url-vars seq
byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cconv cl-loaddefs cl-lib tooltip
eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel
term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image
regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode
elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar
rfn-eshadow isearch timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock
syntax facemenu font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic
cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet
lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak
czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite charscript
charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray
cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files
window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages
mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind
inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting
cairo move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process
emacs)
Memory information:
((conses 16 797529 27595)
(symbols 48 50934 1)
(strings 32 231324 5826)
(string-bytes 1 7880704)
(vectors 16 90378)
(vector-slots 8 1964240 127853)
(floats 8 650 128)
(intervals 56 10692 0)
(buffers 992 21))
Forcibly Merged 33178 43887.
Request was from
Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
to
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Message #10 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support> writes:
> I see this when HELLO is displayed:
>
> Javanese (Jawa) System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
It's a (pretty weak) joke about Java (the computer language) and Jawa
(the language).
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
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Message #13 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:
> Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support> writes:
>
>> I see this when HELLO is displayed:
>>
>> Javanese (Jawa) System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
>
> It's a (pretty weak) joke about Java (the computer language) and Jawa
> (the language).
FWIW I must admit I really liked it the first time I've seen it :)
Andrea
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Message #16 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:
>> I see this when HELLO is displayed:
>>
>> Javanese (Jawa) System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
>
> It's a (pretty weak) joke about Java (the computer language) and Jawa
> (the language).
So should we remove the joke or just close this bug?
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Message #19 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:
> So should we remove the joke or just close this bug?
I think the bug's closed already? The joke is amusing (unless you're
from that region), so it should probably stay, I guess.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
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Message #22 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
* Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> [2020-10-11 12:05]:
> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:
>
> >> I see this when HELLO is displayed:
> >>
> >> Javanese (Jawa) System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
> >
> > It's a (pretty weak) joke about Java (the computer language) and Jawa
> > (the language).
>
> So should we remove the joke or just close this bug?
From view point of Jawa people, they will probably not understand Java
programming language.
From view point that Java is large island, with large number of people
there, please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java reference to 145
millions, if I would be one of those, I would not understand it, and
we can also think that some could be negatively impacted that their
language is written that way. Thus from their viewpoint, joke could
not be understood.
That page may be most welcoming page among all.
Myself I cannot assume that everybody uses Emacs for programming, even
if I do, but cannot assume that. I have been spending quite nice time
in Agrigento, Italy, using Emacs for writing book and articles.
Myself I cannot speak for people on that island, you could ask them if
that is alright.
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Message #25 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
* Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> [2020-10-11 12:09]:
> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
> > So should we remove the joke or just close this bug?
>
> I think the bug's closed already? The joke is amusing (unless you're
> from that region), so it should probably stay, I guess.
Removing joke is lack of humour.
It would not be good to remove it.
On the other hand, 145 millions people there don't get proper "Hello",
so that is still a bug.
Sorry, I was thinking it was some programming mistake, I never thought
of Java programming language, as I don't use it.
I am proposing to make a button on Javanese Jawa line, so that their
Hello remains there, but if user presses the button, that the joke
appears.
(defun button-pressed (button)
(message (format "Hello!")))
(define-button-type 'custom-button
'action 'button-pressed
'follow-link t
'help-echo "Click Button"
'help-args "test")
(make-button 1 10 :type 'custom-button)
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Message #28 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support> writes:
>> I think the bug's closed already? The joke is amusing (unless you're
>> from that region), so it should probably stay, I guess.
>
> Removing joke is lack of humour.
>
> It would not be good to remove it.
>
> On the other hand, 145 millions people there don't get proper "Hello",
> so that is still a bug.
Pls don't let us overreact. There are many jokes I don't understand - I
won't request to remove them.
Emacs would be a boring place if I understand everything.
Best regards, Michael.
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Message #31 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
>> >> I see this when HELLO is displayed:
>> >>
>> >> Javanese (Jawa) System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
>> >
>> > It's a (pretty weak) joke about Java (the computer language) and Jawa
>> > (the language).
Indeed, that was a stupid joke as these reports indicate.
The name of the programming language refers to coffee,
not to the language of people inhabiting the island.
> From view point of Jawa people, they will probably not understand Java
> programming language.
>
> From view point that Java is large island, with large number of people
> there, please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java reference to 145
> millions, if I would be one of those, I would not understand it, and
> we can also think that some could be negatively impacted that their
> language is written that way. Thus from their viewpoint, joke could
> not be understood.
I completely agree. The etc/HELLO was intended to be not a place
for dubious jokes, but a file that demonstrates to users that
non-ASCII characters of their scripts are supported in Emacs.
So for languages whose greetings don't contain non-ASCII letters,
such non-ASCII letters are presented in their language names.
This is the case for français, español, slovenščina, Türkçe.
But there is no point in showing ASCII-only letters for Javanese.
So I replaced this line with the proper Javanese script, and now
Javanese people will enjoy seeing that their script is supported by Emacs.
> I am proposing to make a button on Javanese Jawa line, so that their
> Hello remains there, but if user presses the button, that the joke appears.
Feel free to add such a button if you want.
PS: While at it, I also added support for Belarusian language in etc/HELLO.
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Message #34 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
* Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> [2020-10-18 23:33]:
> >> >> I see this when HELLO is displayed:
> >> >>
> >> >> Javanese (Jawa) System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
> >> >
> >> > It's a (pretty weak) joke about Java (the computer language) and Jawa
> >> > (the language).
>
> Indeed, that was a stupid joke as these reports indicate.
> The name of the programming language refers to coffee,
> not to the language of people inhabiting the island.
The coffee comes from there, and my dictionary says that Java is often
used as word for coffee in United States, somebody can confirm.
> PS: While at it, I also added support for Belarusian language in
> etc/HELLO.
If it is nice, then fine, yet too many similar cyrilics are not
necessary in the file, as purpose is to show how it handles
characters, there are so many languages out there, it would not be
good to have too many with same kind of alphabets.
Did not alter fixed versions and reopened.
Request was from
Debbugs Internal Request <help-debbugs <at> gnu.org>
to
internal_control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
(Sun, 18 Oct 2020 21:42:01 GMT)
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Removed tag(s) notabug and wontfix.
Request was from
Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
to
control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
(Sun, 18 Oct 2020 21:42:01 GMT)
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bug marked as fixed in version 28.1, send any further explanations to
43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org and Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support>
Request was from
Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
to
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(Sun, 18 Oct 2020 21:42:02 GMT)
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(Mon, 19 Oct 2020 03:47:01 GMT)
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Message #43 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
I wrote some code in Java once.
It was in the Lisp language, but I was in Java at the time.
--
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
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Message #46 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> I wrote some code in Java once.
> It was in the Lisp language, but I was in Java at the time.
Feature request: Lisp to have its own country.
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Message #49 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
* Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org> [2020-10-19 06:47]:
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
> I wrote some code in Java once.
> It was in the Lisp language, but I was in Java at the time.
Buahahaha.
I also wish to write in Java one day.
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Message #52 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
>> PS: While at it, I also added support for Belarusian language in
>> etc/HELLO.
>
> If it is nice, then fine, yet too many similar cyrilics are not
> necessary in the file, as purpose is to show how it handles
> characters, there are so many languages out there, it would not be
> good to have too many with same kind of alphabets.
You may not recognize this, but the word was intended to contain
a Cyrillic diacritic to demonstrate that Emacs has no problem
in using diacritics in Cyrillic.
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(Mon, 19 Oct 2020 08:16:01 GMT)
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Message #55 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> I wrote some code in Java once.
> It was in the Lisp language, but I was in Java at the time.
Last Friday I had to rewrite some legacy Java code in Ruby.
The length of original Java code was about 50 lines.
After rewriting in Ruby it takes only 3 lines!
(Ruby is much more Lisp language than Java.)
It would be a disservice to associate a group of people
with such a notoriously bad programming language as Java.
Anyway, now I relieved from the responsibility
for such controversy.
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Message #58 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
>> I wrote some code in Java once.
>> It was in the Lisp language, but I was in Java at the time.
>
> Feature request: Lisp to have its own country.
Not a country, but a natural language.
So you can add Lisp to etc/HELLO,
if you are a native speaker of Lisp.
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Message #61 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
* Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> [2020-10-19 11:15]:
> >> PS: While at it, I also added support for Belarusian language in
> >> etc/HELLO.
> >
> > If it is nice, then fine, yet too many similar cyrilics are not
> > necessary in the file, as purpose is to show how it handles
> > characters, there are so many languages out there, it would not be
> > good to have too many with same kind of alphabets.
>
> You may not recognize this, but the word was intended to contain
> a Cyrillic diacritic to demonstrate that Emacs has no problem
> in using diacritics in Cyrillic.
I know that, I do not protest.
I just say that one of Cyrillic or let us say 2 of them are enough, as
Cyrillic is similar in many countries.
First alphabet I learned was Cyrillic, by the way. I cannot be
possibly against it, just it can be too much that overrides the
purpose of showing characters.
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(Mon, 19 Oct 2020 09:48:01 GMT)
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Message #64 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> writes:
Hi,
> Indeed, that was a stupid joke as these reports indicate.
> The name of the programming language refers to coffee,
> not to the language of people inhabiting the island.
It is the nature of a joke that it isn't understood by everybody. Shall
we really remove *every* joke from Emacs? I don't believe so.
Best regards, Michael.
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(Mon, 19 Oct 2020 14:44:02 GMT)
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Message #67 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 10:55:08 +0300
> Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>,
> 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > If it is nice, then fine, yet too many similar cyrilics are not
> > necessary in the file, as purpose is to show how it handles
> > characters, there are so many languages out there, it would not be
> > good to have too many with same kind of alphabets.
>
> You may not recognize this, but the word was intended to contain
> a Cyrillic diacritic to demonstrate that Emacs has no problem
> in using diacritics in Cyrillic.
That's okay, but then maybe we should remove some other Cyrillic line
there, because the file is really for showing off scripts, not
languages (if it were the latter, we'd need to make it orders of
magnitude longer).
Btw, how is that diacritics different from what we have on the Russian
line?
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Message #70 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 11:46:22 +0200
> Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>,
> Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support>, 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> writes:
>
> It is the nature of a joke that it isn't understood by everybody. Shall
> we really remove *every* joke from Emacs?
I certainly hope we won't.
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Message #73 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>> It is the nature of a joke that it isn't understood by everybody. Shall
>> we really remove *every* joke from Emacs?
>
> I certainly hope we won't.
So we can revert this change in etc/HELLO?
Best regards, Michael.
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Message #76 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
> Cc: juri <at> linkov.net, larsi <at> gnus.org, stefankangas <at> gmail.com,
> bugs <at> gnu.support, 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:57:23 +0200
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
> >> It is the nature of a joke that it isn't understood by everybody. Shall
> >> we really remove *every* joke from Emacs?
> >
> > I certainly hope we won't.
>
> So we can revert this change in etc/HELLO?
I would be in favor of reverting it, yes.
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Message #79 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>> >> It is the nature of a joke that it isn't understood by everybody. Shall
>> >> we really remove *every* joke from Emacs?
>> >
>> > I certainly hope we won't.
>>
>> So we can revert this change in etc/HELLO?
>
> I would be in favor of reverting it, yes.
So let's wait for the result of your discussion about the Belarus entry,
and then wo could do.
Best regards, Michael.
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Message #82 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:
>> Indeed, that was a stupid joke as these reports indicate.
>> The name of the programming language refers to coffee,
>> not to the language of people inhabiting the island.
>
> It is the nature of a joke that it isn't understood by everybody. Shall
> we really remove *every* joke from Emacs? I don't believe so.
It's not really binary though, is it? We could remove some jokes but
keep others.
In this case, it seems to me that we get more mileage out of using the
Javanese script than keeping the (fairly weak) joke.
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Message #85 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 15:41:57 +0000
> Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
> Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support>
>
> > It is the nature of a joke that it isn't understood by everybody. Shall
> > we really remove *every* joke from Emacs? I don't believe so.
>
> It's not really binary though, is it? We could remove some jokes but
> keep others.
Up until now, each joke that we discussed got removed. So it sounds
like it's really binary, and in one direction: remove them all.
> In this case, it seems to me that we get more mileage out of using the
> Javanese script than keeping the (fairly weak) joke.
We could keep both. Would that be OK with you?
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Message #88 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> Up until now, each joke that we discussed got removed. So it sounds
> like it's really binary, and in one direction: remove them all.
It might be that all the jokes that have been discussed have been bad,
and that's why they've been discussed.
I think the Java joke is kinda funny, but it's a name-based joke, which
means that the everybody else finds the joke surprising and funny, but a
Javanese person will have heard it a gazillion times before, so it
becomes depressing. (Anybody with a "funny name" will have heard every
variation of the joke from any number of people.)
So I'd rather remove it.
And that's not a binary vote for "remove all jokes".
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
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Message #91 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> It is the nature of a joke that it isn't understood by everybody. Shall
> we really remove *every* joke from Emacs? I don't believe so.
That would be an undecidable undertaking. ;-)
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Message #94 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
* Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> [2020-10-19 19:07]:
> > In this case, it seems to me that we get more mileage out of using the
> > Javanese script than keeping the (fairly weak) joke.
>
> We could keep both. Would that be OK with you?
Good idea.
Javanese script looks beautiful and you could wrap it in Java.
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Message #97 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:
> I think the Java joke is kinda funny, but it's a name-based joke, which
> means that the everybody else finds the joke surprising and funny, but a
> Javanese person will have heard it a gazillion times before, so it
> becomes depressing. (Anybody with a "funny name" will have heard every
> variation of the joke from any number of people.)
I'm a German. Believe me, I've heard much more jokes about Germany and the
Germans than you can imagine. So what.
Best regards, Mich "Don't mention the war" ael.
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Message #100 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:
> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:
>
>> I think the Java joke is kinda funny, but it's a name-based joke, which
>> means that the everybody else finds the joke surprising and funny, but a
>> Javanese person will have heard it a gazillion times before, so it
>> becomes depressing. (Anybody with a "funny name" will have heard every
>> variation of the joke from any number of people.)
>
> I'm a German. Believe me, I've heard much more jokes about Germany and the
> Germans than you can imagine. So what.
Hi all,
I possibly had an even more intense experience as an Italian. Having
some sense of humor really helps going trough these situations making
some fun out of them.
I'm also for keeping the joke, I like the idea of Emacs keeping some
humor around.
Regards
Andrea (spagetti-code writer)
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Message #103 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
>>> It is the nature of a joke that it isn't understood by everybody. Shall
>>> we really remove *every* joke from Emacs?
etc/HELLO still contains enough puns that don't offend anyone
and don't provoke bug reports.
>> I certainly hope we won't.
>
> So we can revert this change in etc/HELLO?
Not to revert, but to change the authorship of this joke and to adapt it to
the added Javanese script if you want to take responsibility for handling
future complaints ;-) As for me, I unsubscribe from that kind of jokes,
I prefer to make fun of corporations, politicians and celebrities,
but not of unsuspecting groups of people.
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Message #106 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> Btw, how is that diacritics different from what we have on the Russian
> line?
The intention was to add a word with the diacritics letter Ў,
but I don't know a greeting with that letter.
Why the requirement for that file to contain only greetings?
Would it make sense to relax the requirement and allow words
that are not greetings?
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Message #109 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
> Cc: bugs <at> gnu.support, larsi <at> gnus.org, stefankangas <at> gmail.com,
> 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 23:31:35 +0300
>
> > Btw, how is that diacritics different from what we have on the Russian
> > line?
>
> The intention was to add a word with the diacritics letter Ў,
> but I don't know a greeting with that letter.
My question still stands: we already have a Cyrillic diacritic on the
Russian line. Is that not sufficient?
> Why the requirement for that file to contain only greetings?
It's the simplest concept. And the greeting is not the only word: the
name of the script itself is also part of that.
> Would it make sense to relax the requirement and allow words
> that are not greetings?
Like what?
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Message #112 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Eli is entirely right -- this file isn't a catalogue of how to say hello in different languages but a way to show off Emacs's character set capabilities. (Somewhat less impressive these days than when it was created, but nothing to be sneezed at.)
I therefore propose removal of the all-ASCII lines for: C (silly), Dutch, Emacs (not very useful for someone already looking at the buffer), Italian and Norwegian.
There are also way too many lines that only demonstrate the Latin-1 subset, of which we should keep only one or two: Danish, Estonian, Finnish, French, German, Hungarian, Spanish, Swedish and Turkish.
Of these, I suggest keeping German (for the ß which is sometimes rendered ambiguously to share glyph with Greek β) and Spanish (for the non-alphabetic ¡), or maybe Estonian (smallest language of the bunch; I root for underdogs) or Finnish (for its glorious salvo of 'ä's).
Every humdrum line is one that displaces an exciting one. If this file has any relevance today, it should be the variety and wonder of human writing systems that Emacs can display.
(I also question the oversized copyright notice for this file but at least it's relegated to the bottom where nobody will read it. It feels like one of those corporate email signatures.)
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Message #115 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> writes:
Hi Juri,
> Not to revert, but to change the authorship of this joke and to adapt it to
> the added Javanese script if you want to take responsibility for handling
> future complaints ;-)
Will do, no problem for me. Just one question: "emacs -Q" on both Fedora
32 and Ubuntu 20.04 don't show proper symbols for this (and TaiViet). I
guess it needs another font to be loaded?
> As for me, I unsubscribe from that kind of jokes,
> I prefer to make fun of corporations, politicians and celebrities,
> but not of unsuspecting groups of people.
All of them are valid targets for jokes. But there might be simiular
controversies, when such jokes appear in Emacs.
Best regards, Michael.
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Message #118 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Mattias Engdegård <mattiase <at> acm.org> writes:
> I therefore propose removal of the all-ASCII lines for: C (silly),
> Dutch, Emacs (not very useful for someone already looking at the
> buffer), Italian and Norwegian.
>
> There are also way too many lines that only demonstrate the Latin-1
> subset, of which we should keep only one or two: Danish, Estonian,
> Finnish, French, German, Hungarian, Spanish, Swedish and Turkish.
You have a point, of course. But how long before we get patches to add
these languages back, and then get to have another round of discussing
this?
I think it's better to just leave it all alone. The list is long, but
not overly so. If we want to avoid having to scroll for testing
purposes, we could instead extend the "Non-ASCII examples" section at
the top.
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Message #121 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
>>>>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 08:05:39 -0400, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> said:
Stefan> Mattias Engdegård <mattiase <at> acm.org> writes:
>> I therefore propose removal of the all-ASCII lines for: C (silly),
>> Dutch, Emacs (not very useful for someone already looking at the
>> buffer), Italian and Norwegian.
>>
>> There are also way too many lines that only demonstrate the Latin-1
>> subset, of which we should keep only one or two: Danish, Estonian,
>> Finnish, French, German, Hungarian, Spanish, Swedish and Turkish.
Stefan> You have a point, of course. But how long before we get patches to add
Stefan> these languages back, and then get to have another round of discussing
Stefan> this?
Stefan> I think it's better to just leave it all alone. The list is long, but
Stefan> not overly so. If we want to avoid having to scroll for testing
Stefan> purposes, we could instead extend the "Non-ASCII examples" section at
Stefan> the top.
The list being long is a feature: when you've screwed something up
that causes a crash or a slowdown with the more esoteric scripts
towards the end of the file, having to scroll gives you the opportunity
to set your debugging up beforehand :-)
Robert
--
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Message #124 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:
> Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> writes:
>
> Hi Juri,
>
>> Not to revert, but to change the authorship of this joke and to adapt it to
>> the added Javanese script if you want to take responsibility for handling
>> future complaints ;-)
>
> Will do, no problem for me. Just one question: "emacs -Q" on both Fedora
> 32 and Ubuntu 20.04 don't show proper symbols for this (and TaiViet). I
> guess it needs another font to be loaded?
>
>> As for me, I unsubscribe from that kind of jokes,
>> I prefer to make fun of corporations, politicians and celebrities,
>> but not of unsuspecting groups of people.
>
> All of them are valid targets for jokes. But there might be simiular
> controversies, when such jokes appear in Emacs.
>
> Best regards, Michael.
I had a good laugh; not so much that I didn't see some version berfore,
but because it was so nerdy, so I was laughing more to that.
I don't find that joke offensive in any way; but non-programmers
don't understand the programmign humor; but then how many of
non-programmers would look at that file. I personally didn't even know
it existed untill you started the discussion.
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Message #127 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
20 okt. 2020 kl. 14.05 skrev Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>:
> You have a point, of course. But how long before we get patches to add
> these languages back, and then get to have another round of discussing
> this?
By that reasoning we can never remove anything from the list and will have to accept that it will keep growing indefinitely. A tad defeatist, don't you think?
It's the other way around: if the list contains Danish, Finnish and Swedish, why not add Norwegian? If it has a silly entry for C, why not add one for Pascal? And so on.
The file says in the very beginning:
It is not intended to be comprehensive, but to demonstrate
some of the character sets that Emacs supports.
If you think this text is insufficient to deter ill-advised additions, we can strengthen it.
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Message #130 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Mattias Engdegård <mattiase <at> acm.org> writes:
> 20 okt. 2020 kl. 14.05 skrev Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>:
>
>> You have a point, of course. But how long before we get patches to add
>> these languages back, and then get to have another round of discussing
>> this?
>
> By that reasoning we can never remove anything from the list and will have to accept that it will keep growing indefinitely. A tad defeatist, don't you think?
>
> It's the other way around: if the list contains Danish, Finnish and Swedish, why
> not add Norwegian? If it has a silly entry for C, why not add one for Pascal?
> And so on.
Because Lisp still gotten it's country! Once we have a Lisp land, we can
add a silly entry for Lisp too.
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Message #133 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
>> > Btw, how is that diacritics different from what we have on the Russian
>> > line?
>>
>> The intention was to add a word with the diacritics letter Ў,
>> but I don't know a greeting with that letter.
>
> My question still stands: we already have a Cyrillic diacritic on the
> Russian line. Is that not sufficient?
The Russian line has COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT, whereas the proposed diacritic is
COMBINING BREVE. I know no other language that has a letter with COMBINING BREVE.
>> Would it make sense to relax the requirement and allow words
>> that are not greetings?
>
> Like what?
Maybe also allow phrases how to say "Welcome" and "Cheers!"
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Message #136 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> I therefore propose removal of the all-ASCII lines for:
> C (silly), Dutch, Emacs (not very useful for someone already looking at the buffer), Italian and Norwegian.
C is the default locale. Removing other languages would offend their native speakers.
Since there is no limit of the file size, I see no problem to have as many languages
as users enjoy seeing in this file.
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Message #139 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
>> Not to revert, but to change the authorship of this joke and to adapt it to
>> the added Javanese script if you want to take responsibility for handling
>> future complaints ;-)
>
> Will do, no problem for me. Just one question: "emacs -Q" on both Fedora
> 32 and Ubuntu 20.04 don't show proper symbols for this (and TaiViet). I
> guess it needs another font to be loaded?
Yes, an additional font is needed. It seems the latest Mint installs it
by default. On earlier versions all additional fonts can be installed with:
sudo apt-get install fonts-noto-core
I guess a similar package should exist for Ubuntu (not sure for Fedora).
Then no empty boxes are shown in etc/HELLO.
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Message #142 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> >> Would it make sense to relax the requirement and allow words
> >> that are not greetings?
> >
> > Like what?
> Maybe also allow phrases how to say "Welcome" and "Cheers!"
I suggest we spend our time on other issues that will affect users
more.
--
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
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Message #145 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
>> adapt it to the added Javanese script if you want to take
>> responsibility for handling future complaints ;-)
>
> Will do, no problem for me.
Wait, shouldn't Javanese script be printed using JavaScript, not Java!
How it would look in JavaScript?
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Message #148 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> writes:
> Wait, shouldn't Javanese script be printed using JavaScript, not Java!
> How it would look in JavaScript?
Don't know, I don't speak JavaScript.
Best regards, Michael.
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Message #151 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
* Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> [2020-10-21 09:59]:
> >> adapt it to the added Javanese script if you want to take
> >> responsibility for handling future complaints ;-)
> >
> > Will do, no problem for me.
>
> Wait, shouldn't Javanese script be printed using JavaScript, not Java!
> How it would look in JavaScript?
Javanese is spoken on island Java, not on island Javascript
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javanese_language
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Message #154 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
According to translation the above is not "Hello" but "Good
afternoon".
Good afternoon should be rather written between the quotes as: Sꦸꦒꦼꦤꦒ ꦱꦶꦄꦤꦒ!
So please update it to be correct:
System.out.println("Sꦸꦒꦼꦤꦒ ꦱꦶꦄꦤꦒ!");
Reference:
https://lingojam.com/JavaneseScript
To get the representation, enter: Sugeng siang! in left text field,
you will get result on the right text field.
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Message #157 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> writes:
Hi Juri,
>> Will do, no problem for me. Just one question: "emacs -Q" on both Fedora
>> 32 and Ubuntu 20.04 don't show proper symbols for this (and TaiViet). I
>> guess it needs another font to be loaded?
>
> Yes, an additional font is needed. It seems the latest Mint installs it
> by default. On earlier versions all additional fonts can be installed with:
>
> sudo apt-get install fonts-noto-core
>
> I guess a similar package should exist for Ubuntu (not sure for Fedora).
> Then no empty boxes are shown in etc/HELLO.
Thanks, that helps also for Ubuntu. On Fedora, I haven't found a
comprehensive font package similar to this, so I have applied
$ sudo yum install google-noto-sans-javanese-fonts google-noto-sans-tai-viet-fonts
Best regards, Michael.
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Message #160 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support> writes:
>> Wait, shouldn't Javanese script be printed using JavaScript, not Java!
>> How it would look in JavaScript?
>
> Javanese is spoken on island Java, not on island Javascript
Yes, so I keep Java.
Best regards, Michael.
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Message #163 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support> writes:
> System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
>
> According to translation the above is not "Hello" but "Good
> afternoon".
>
> Good afternoon should be rather written between the quotes as: Sꦸꦒꦼꦤꦒ ꦱꦶꦄꦤꦒ!
>
> So please update it to be correct:
>
> System.out.println("Sꦸꦒꦼꦤꦒ ꦱꦶꦄꦤꦒ!");
>
> Reference:
> https://lingojam.com/JavaneseScript
Thanks. However, since I don't speak Javanese, and I don't know how good
automatic translators are, I haven't touched the Javanese symbols, and I
have added just the Java construct around. Let's see, whether there's
somebody with Javanese background who could clarify.
Committed to master.
Best regards, Michael.
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Message #166 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:
> Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support> writes:
>
>> System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
>>
>> According to translation the above is not "Hello" but "Good
>> afternoon".
>>
>> Good afternoon should be rather written between the quotes as: Sꦸꦒꦼꦤꦒ ꦱꦶꦄꦤꦒ!
>>
>> So please update it to be correct:
>>
>> System.out.println("Sꦸꦒꦼꦤꦒ ꦱꦶꦄꦤꦒ!");
>>
>> Reference:
>> https://lingojam.com/JavaneseScript
>
> Thanks. However, since I don't speak Javanese, and I don't know how good
> automatic translators are, I haven't touched the Javanese symbols, and I
> have added just the Java construct around. Let's see, whether there's
> somebody with Javanese background who could clarify.
>
> Committed to master.
>
> Best regards, Michael.
Can we keep the joke, and just rename the file to something like
"supported-scripts" or similar. So non-programmers would understand ...
no guarantee though :-).
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Message #169 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Arthur Miller <arthur.miller <at> live.com> writes:
Hi Arthur,
> Can we keep the joke, and just rename the file to something like
> "supported-scripts" or similar. So non-programmers would understand ...
> no guarantee though :-).
The name of the file doesn't matter. Most people will see its contents
via "C-h h".
Best regards, Michael.
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Message #172 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 13:41:20 +0200
> Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>, stefankangas <at> gmail.com,
> Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support>, 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > Can we keep the joke, and just rename the file to something like
> > "supported-scripts" or similar. So non-programmers would understand ...
> > no guarantee though :-).
>
> The name of the file doesn't matter. Most people will see its contents
> via "C-h h".
Right.
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Message #175 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Ah, I see.
But that shortcut is not something universal. For people to invoke it, they are probably reading about it in some context where is it properly mentioned? Is it possible to make it clear there it is about scripts supported by Emacs, not about the greeting itself.
-------- Originalmeddelande --------
Från: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Datum: 2020-10-21 16:55 (GMT+01:00)
Till: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Kopia: arthur.miller <at> live.com, larsi <at> gnus.org, juri <at> linkov.net, stefankangas <at> gmail.com, bugs <at> gnu.support, 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Ämne: Re: bug#43887: 28.0.50; in HELLO: Javanese (Jawa) System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
> From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 13:41:20 +0200
> Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>, stefankangas <at> gmail.com,
> Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support>, 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > Can we keep the joke, and just rename the file to something like
> > "supported-scripts" or similar. So non-programmers would understand ...
> > no guarantee though :-).
>
> The name of the file doesn't matter. Most people will see its contents
> via "C-h h".
Right.
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Message #178 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
20 okt. 2020 kl. 20.20 skrev Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>:
> C is the default locale. Removing other languages would offend their native speakers.
As a native speaker of one of the languages proposed for removal, I can assure you that there is no danger of anyone taking offense. Well, maybe the odd C compiler may grumble -- they are known for being touchy.
Anyway, Richard observed that this file is quite unimportant and he is right about that, so I'll follow his advice.
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Message #181 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
arthur miller <arthur.miller <at> live.com> writes:
> But that shortcut is not something universal. For people to invoke it,
> they are probably reading about it in some context where is it
> properly mentioned? Is it possible to make it clear there it is about
> scripts supported by Emacs, not about the greeting itself.
HELLO already says at the top:
This is a list of ways to say hello in various languages.
It is not intended to be comprehensive, but to demonstrate
some of the character sets that Emacs supports.
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Message #184 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
>> Wait, shouldn't Javanese script be printed using JavaScript, not Java!
>> How it would look in JavaScript?
>
> Don't know, I don't speak JavaScript.
It seems in JavaScript the function closest to printing is
console.log("Hello");
It would be nicer to use this instead of Java.
Hopefully, this will provoke less questions.
And JavaScript is more functional than Java,
so JavaScript is closer to Emacs Lisp :-)
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Message #187 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
>> Wait, shouldn't Javanese script be printed using JavaScript, not Java!
>> How it would look in JavaScript?
>
> Javanese is spoken on island Java, not on island Javascript
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javanese_language
But Javanese script is a script like JavaScript:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javanese_script
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Message #190 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> System.out.println("Sugeng siang!");
>
> According to translation the above is not "Hello" but "Good afternoon".
Since Javanese native speaker explicitly asked us to use
"Good afternoon" instead of "Hello", we shouldn't disregard
the requests from native speakers. Please see the request in
http://debbugs.gnu.org/759
> Good afternoon should be rather written between the quotes as: Sꦸꦒꦼꦤꦒ ꦱꦶꦄꦤꦒ!
>
> So please update it to be correct:
>
> System.out.println("Sꦸꦒꦼꦤꦒ ꦱꦶꦄꦤꦒ!");
Sorry, but this string is gibberish.
Perhaps you tried to transliterate the string with the capital letter "S".
Please change all letters to lower-case before transliterating them.
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Message #193 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
* Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> [2020-10-21 20:47]:
> >> Wait, shouldn't Javanese script be printed using JavaScript, not Java!
> >> How it would look in JavaScript?
> >
> > Javanese is spoken on island Java, not on island Javascript
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javanese_language
>
> But Javanese script is a script like JavaScript:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javanese_script
Then it becomes only Javascript or Java without Javanese script at
all, which would more fit the purpose of HELLO file.
For example Emacs is written as: ꦼꦩꦄꦕꦱ (I think they do not have
capitalized letters).
Lisp is written as ꦭꦶꦱꦥ
and javascript is written as ꦗꦄvꦄꦱꦕꦫꦶꦥꦠ
java is ꦗꦄvꦄ
Hello is written as halo and in Javanese script ꦲꦄꦭꦺꦴ
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Message #196 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
* Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> [2020-10-21 20:47]:
> > System.out.println("Sꦸꦒꦼꦤꦒ ꦱꦶꦄꦤꦒ!");
>
> Sorry, but this string is gibberish.
>
> Perhaps you tried to transliterate the string with the capital letter "S".
> Please change all letters to lower-case before transliterating them.
I just discovered it
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Message #199 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:
> Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> writes:
>
> Hi Juri,
>
>> Not to revert, but to change the authorship of this joke and to adapt it to
>> the added Javanese script if you want to take responsibility for handling
>> future complaints ;-)
>
> Will do, no problem for me. Just one question: "emacs -Q" on both Fedora
> 32 and Ubuntu 20.04 don't show proper symbols for this (and TaiViet). I
> guess it needs another font to be loaded?
>
>> As for me, I unsubscribe from that kind of jokes,
>> I prefer to make fun of corporations, politicians and celebrities,
>> but not of unsuspecting groups of people.
>
> All of them are valid targets for jokes. But there might be simiular
> controversies, when such jokes appear in Emacs.
I never understood that line as a joke targeting a group of people, more
like targeting the naming of a programming language.
>
> Best regards, Michael.
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Message #202 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> I never understood that line as a joke targeting a group of people, more
> like targeting the naming of a programming language.
Would you agree that since we use Javanese script now, we
should target the programming language Javascript instead of Java?
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Message #205 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
* Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> [2020-10-22 10:40]:
> > I never understood that line as a joke targeting a group of people, more
> > like targeting the naming of a programming language.
>
> Would you agree that since we use Javanese script now, we
> should target the programming language Javascript instead of Java?
But is Javanese going to be shown?
--
Jean Louis
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Message #208 received at 43887 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
>> > I never understood that line as a joke targeting a group of people, more
>> > like targeting the naming of a programming language.
>>
>> Would you agree that since we use Javanese script now, we
>> should target the programming language JavaScript instead of Java?
>
> But is Javanese going to be shown?
Yes, Javanese is still shown, so I changed Java to JavaScript,
because this is much better: we are making a pun from the phrase
"Javanese script", not targeting people of the Java island.
bug archived.
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