GNU bug report logs - #35417
Tor Service

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Raghav Gururajan <rvgn <at> disroot.org>
To: bug-guix <at> gnu.org
Cc: guix-devel <at> gnu.org
Subject: Tor Service
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 12:34:22 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hello Guix!

Including "tor-service-type" does not invoke and add "tor" package into
the system. Without "tor" package, tor commands cannot be used.
Therefore, "tor-service-type" is of little or no use, if it does not
invoke and add "tor" package into the system.

Regards,
RG.

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #8 received at 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Julien Lepiller <julien <at> lepiller.eu>
To: Raghav Gururajan <rvgn <at> disroot.org>,35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: guix-devel <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35417: Tor Service
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:02:03 +0200

Le 24 avril 2019 18:34:22 GMT+02:00, Raghav Gururajan <rvgn <at> disroot.org> a écrit :
>Hello Guix!
>
>Including "tor-service-type" does not invoke and add "tor" package into
>the system. Without "tor" package, tor commands cannot be used.
>Therefore, "tor-service-type" is of little or no use, if it does not
>invoke and add "tor" package into the system.
>
>Regards,
>RG.

Hi,

What kind of command do you want to run? The tor service runs tor and you can configure, eg. your browser to use it through a socks proxy. So it is of some use :)

Message #11 received at 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Raghav Gururajan <rvgn <at> disroot.org>
To: Julien Lepiller <julien <at> lepiller.eu>
Cc: guix-devel <at> gnu.org, 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35417: Tor Service
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 14:01:17 -0400

Hi,

I think there commands to interact with tor in real-time. The list of commands should be available via command "tor --help". :)On 24 Apr 2019 13:02, Julien Lepiller <julien <at> lepiller.eu> wrote:
>
> Le 24 avril 2019 18:34:22 GMT+02:00, Raghav Gururajan <rvgn <at> disroot.org> a écrit : 
> >Hello Guix! 
> > 
> >Including "tor-service-type" does not invoke and add "tor" package into 
> >the system. Without "tor" package, tor commands cannot be used. 
> >Therefore, "tor-service-type" is of little or no use, if it does not 
> >invoke and add "tor" package into the system. 
> > 
> >Regards, 
> >RG. 
>
> Hi, 
>
> What kind of command do you want to run? The tor service runs tor and you can configure, eg. your browser to use it through a socks proxy. So it is of some use :) 

Message #16 received at 35417-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me <at> tobias.gr>
To: 35417-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: Tor Service
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 20:53:50 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Raghav,

Raghav Gururajan wrote:
> Including "tor-service-type" does not invoke and add "tor" 
> package into
> the system.

To use the ‘tor’ command, like any other package, you must install 
the ‘tor’ package into either the system profile (using 
SYSTEM-PACKAGES) or that of your user (using ‘guix package’).

I'd recommend SYSTEM-PACKAGES in this case so the tor commands 
will always match the version of Tor used by the service.

This is by design; services can't pollute the environment of 
users, including the system profile.  That's a good thing.

> Therefore, "tor-service-type" is of little or no use, if it does 
> not
> invoke and add "tor" package into the system.

That's just not true.  The tor service does its job and works just 
fine without the ‘tor’ command.  I just checked both of my Tor 
nodes (both run Guix :-) and neither of them have ‘tor’ installed 
into any profile.  Nyx and herd (and emacs torrc) are all I need 
to administrate them.

I'm closing this because there's no bug here…

Kind regards,

T G-R

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Message #19 received at 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Raghav Gururajan" <rvgn <at> disroot.org>
To: 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35417: closed (Re: Tor Service)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 03:42:17 +0000

Ah! My bad. I thought only Tor commands can be used to administrate tor service. Didn't know Nyx, herd and emacs torrc can be used to administrate tor service. All cool. :)

April 24, 2019 2:54 PM, help-debbugs <at> gnu.org wrote:

> Your bug report
> 
> #35417: Tor Service
> 
> which was filed against the guix package, has been closed.
> 
> The explanation is attached below, along with your original report.
> If you require more details, please reply to 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
> 
> -- 
> 35417: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=35417
> GNU Bug Tracking System
> Contact help-debbugs <at> gnu.org with problems

Message #22 received at 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Raghav Gururajan" <rvgn <at> disroot.org>
To: 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35417: closed (Re: Tor Service)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 09:10:40 +0000

DOUBT!

I found the following in the guide:

Data Type: tor-configuration
tor (default: tor)
The package that provides the Tor daemon. This package is expected to provide the daemon at bin/tor relative to its output directory. The default package is the Tor Project’s implementation.

So the package "tor" actually used when using the service "tor-service-type". Then why the package "tor" isn't added to the system as it is not showing up in the system packages list?

April 24, 2019 11:42 PM, "Raghav Gururajan" <rvgn <at> disroot.org> wrote:

> Ah! My bad. I thought only Tor commands can be used to administrate tor service. Didn't know Nyx,
> herd and emacs torrc can be used to administrate tor service. All cool. :)
> 
> April 24, 2019 2:54 PM, help-debbugs <at> gnu.org wrote:
> 
>> Your bug report
>> 
>> #35417: Tor Service
>> 
>> which was filed against the guix package, has been closed.
>> 
>> The explanation is attached below, along with your original report.
>> If you require more details, please reply to 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
>> 
>> --
>> 35417: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=35417
>> GNU Bug Tracking System
>> Contact help-debbugs <at> gnu.org with problems

Message #25 received at 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Raghav Gururajan" <rvgn <at> disroot.org>
To: 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: me <at> tobias.gr
Subject: Re: bug#35417: closed (Re: Tor Service)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 09:24:27 +0000

In continuation to my previous email in this thread:

For example, service "openssh-service-type" uses the package "openssh" and the latter shows up in
my system packages list. But the doubt is; why service "tor-service-type" which uses the package
"tor", doesn't show up in the system packages list??

April 25, 2019 5:10 AM, "Raghav Gururajan" <rvgn <at> disroot.org> wrote:

> DOUBT!
> 
> I found the following in the guide:
> 
> Data Type: tor-configuration
> tor (default: tor)
> The package that provides the Tor daemon. This package is expected to provide the daemon at bin/tor
> relative to its output directory. The default package is the Tor Project’s implementation.
> 
> So the package "tor" actually used when using the service "tor-service-type". Then why the package
> "tor" isn't added to the system as it is not showing up in the system packages list?
> 
> April 24, 2019 11:42 PM, "Raghav Gururajan" <rvgn <at> disroot.org> wrote:
> 
>> Ah! My bad. I thought only Tor commands can be used to administrate tor service. Didn't know Nyx,
>> herd and emacs torrc can be used to administrate tor service. All cool. :)
>> 
>> April 24, 2019 2:54 PM, help-debbugs <at> gnu.org wrote:
> 
> Your bug report
> 
> #35417: Tor Service
> 
> which was filed against the guix package, has been closed.
> 
> The explanation is attached below, along with your original report.
> If you require more details, please reply to 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
> 
> --
> 35417: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=35417
> GNU Bug Tracking System
> Contact help-debbugs <at> gnu.org with problems

Message #28 received at 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Julien Lepiller <julien <at> lepiller.eu>
To: bug-guix <at> gnu.org, Raghav Gururajan <rvgn <at> disroot.org>,
 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35417: closed (Re: Tor Service)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 11:59:39 +0200

Le 25 avril 2019 11:24:27 GMT+02:00, Raghav Gururajan <rvgn <at> disroot.org> a écrit :
>In continuation to my previous email in this thread:
>
>For example, service "openssh-service-type" uses the package "openssh"
>and the latter shows up in
>my system packages list. But the doubt is; why service
>"tor-service-type" which uses the package
>"tor", doesn't show up in the system packages list??
>
>April 25, 2019 5:10 AM, "Raghav Gururajan" <rvgn <at> disroot.org> wrote:
>
>> DOUBT!
>> 
>> I found the following in the guide:
>> 
>> Data Type: tor-configuration
>> tor (default: tor)
>> The package that provides the Tor daemon. This package is expected to
>provide the daemon at bin/tor
>> relative to its output directory. The default package is the Tor
>Project’s implementation.
>> 
>> So the package "tor" actually used when using the service
>"tor-service-type". Then why the package
>> "tor" isn't added to the system as it is not showing up in the system
>packages list?
>> 
>> April 24, 2019 11:42 PM, "Raghav Gururajan" <rvgn <at> disroot.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Ah! My bad. I thought only Tor commands can be used to administrate
>tor service. Didn't know Nyx,
>>> herd and emacs torrc can be used to administrate tor service. All
>cool. :)
>>> 
>>> April 24, 2019 2:54 PM, help-debbugs <at> gnu.org wrote:
>> 
>> Your bug report
>> 
>> #35417: Tor Service
>> 
>> which was filed against the guix package, has been closed.
>> 
>> The explanation is attached below, along with your original report.
>> If you require more details, please reply to 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
>> 
>> --
>> 35417: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=35417
>> GNU Bug Tracking System
>> Contact help-debbugs <at> gnu.org with problems

That's because the cor service needs to run the tor binaryto do something useful. The tor field gives it access to the store path to the tor package, so it can start tor. So the tor package is present somewhere in the store and the service knows how to use it. Generally, users of tor do not need direct access to the tor binary, so it's not installed in a profile, only kept in the store. Openssh service users however are usually users of the openssh client, so it is also added  to the system profile.

Message #34 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Raghav Gururajan" <rvgn <at> disroot.org>
To: "Julien Lepiller" <julien <at> lepiller.eu>, bug-guix <at> gnu.org,
 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35417: closed (Re: Tor Service)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 10:02:28 +0000

Ah! That makes sense. Thank you!

April 25, 2019 5:59 AM, "Julien Lepiller" <julien <at> lepiller.eu> wrote:

> Le 25 avril 2019 11:24:27 GMT+02:00, Raghav Gururajan <rvgn <at> disroot.org> a écrit :
> 
>> In continuation to my previous email in this thread:
>> 
>> For example, service "openssh-service-type" uses the package "openssh"
>> and the latter shows up in
>> my system packages list. But the doubt is; why service
>> "tor-service-type" which uses the package
>> "tor", doesn't show up in the system packages list??
>> 
>> April 25, 2019 5:10 AM, "Raghav Gururajan" <rvgn <at> disroot.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> DOUBT!
>>> 
>>> I found the following in the guide:
>>> 
>>> Data Type: tor-configuration
>>> tor (default: tor)
>>> The package that provides the Tor daemon. This package is expected to
>> 
>> provide the daemon at bin/tor
>>> relative to its output directory. The default package is the Tor
>> 
>> Project’s implementation.
>>> So the package "tor" actually used when using the service
>> 
>> "tor-service-type". Then why the package
>>> "tor" isn't added to the system as it is not showing up in the system
>> 
>> packages list?
>>> April 24, 2019 11:42 PM, "Raghav Gururajan" <rvgn <at> disroot.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Ah! My bad. I thought only Tor commands can be used to administrate
>> tor service. Didn't know Nyx,
>> herd and emacs torrc can be used to administrate tor service. All
>> cool. :)
>> 
>> April 24, 2019 2:54 PM, help-debbugs <at> gnu.org wrote:
>>> Your bug report
>>> 
>>> #35417: Tor Service
>>> 
>>> which was filed against the guix package, has been closed.
>>> 
>>> The explanation is attached below, along with your original report.
>>> If you require more details, please reply to 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 35417: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=35417
>>> GNU Bug Tracking System
>>> Contact help-debbugs <at> gnu.org with problems
> 
> That's because the cor service needs to run the tor binaryto do something useful. The tor field
> gives it access to the store path to the tor package, so it can start tor. So the tor package is
> present somewhere in the store and the service knows how to use it. Generally, users of tor do not
> need direct access to the tor binary, so it's not installed in a profile, only kept in the store.
> Openssh service users however are usually users of the openssh client, so it is also added to the
> system profile.

Message #40 received at 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: ng0 <at> n0.is
To: Julien Lepiller <julien <at> lepiller.eu>
Cc: guix-devel <at> gnu.org, 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Raghav Gururajan <rvgn <at> disroot.org>
Subject: Re: bug#35417: Tor Service
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 11:56:52 +0000

Julien Lepiller transcribed 565 bytes:
> Le 24 avril 2019 18:34:22 GMT+02:00, Raghav Gururajan <rvgn <at> disroot.org> a écrit :
> >Hello Guix!
> >
> >Including "tor-service-type" does not invoke and add "tor" package into
> >the system. Without "tor" package, tor commands cannot be used.
> >Therefore, "tor-service-type" is of little or no use, if it does not
> >invoke and add "tor" package into the system.
> >
> >Regards,
> >RG.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> What kind of command do you want to run? The tor service runs tor and you can configure, eg. your browser to use it through a socks proxy. So it is of some use :)

My guess is that this is about torsocks.

Message #43 received at 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me <at> tobias.gr>
To: 35417 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35417: closed (Re: Tor Service)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:31:53 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Raghav,

Raghav Gururajan wrote:
> DOUBT!

 ‘Doubt is an uncomfortable condition,
  but certainty is a ridiculous one.’
    — Voltaire, more or less

> So the package "tor" actually used when using the service 
> "tor-service-type". Then why the package "tor" isn't added to 
> the system as it is not showing up in the system packages list?

‘…why should it be’? :-)

I think the confusion here stems from vague terms like ‘added to 
the system’.  It sounds like you're still adjusting to Guix 
vs. traditional FHS distributions where everything is thrown into 
one big pile — which is completely understandable!

As you found out, all the Tor service really does is start the 
‘tor’ binary.  Hence, Tor is indeed installed to your store 
(/gnu/store/*-tor-*/bin/tor) and is invoked by the Shepherd when 
your system starts.

But that's completely unrelated to your system profile (which is 
what I think you mean by ‘system packages list’; the profile 
generated from the SYSTEM-PACKAGES field of your 
OPERATING-SYSTEM).  To use Tor from the command line, simply add 
‘tor’ to that field.

Unlike other distributions, Guix System doesn't make a package's 
binaries available to *all users* merely because a *service* 
depends on them.  The two steps are (rightly) completely separate.

Does that help?

Kind regards,

T G-R

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