GNU bug report logs - #25131
thwarted from copying what one sees in Info

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 15:30:04 +0800

Go to e.g.,
(info "(coreutils) Sorting the output")

See that line at the top,
... > ... > ... >
Looks good, right? Let's try to copy it with ^K.
As much as you try, you will only get
File: coreutils.info,  Node: Sorting the output...

One needs to probably use emacs -nw in order to copy it.

Message #8 received at 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>
To: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
Cc: 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 12:29:36 +0100

On 2016-12-07, at 08:30, 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org> wrote:

> Go to e.g.,
> (info "(coreutils) Sorting the output")
>
> See that line at the top,
> ... > ... > ... >
> Looks good, right? Let's try to copy it with ^K.
> As much as you try, you will only get
> File: coreutils.info,  Node: Sorting the output...
>
> One needs to probably use emacs -nw in order to copy it.

I guess it's an overlay, so it is like that by design.
(Also in emacs -nw.)

Why is this a problem?

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski

Message #11 received at 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
To: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>
Cc: 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 19:35:57 +0800

>>>>> "MB" == Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl> writes:

MB> Why is this a problem?

Because it makes me feel like a little kid. It is sitting on my screen
but I am not allowed to copy it.

Or it makes me feel like I didn't buy the software license to copy it.

Message #14 received at 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>
Cc: 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni <at> jidanni.org
Subject: Re: bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 18:17:58 +0200

> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>
> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 12:29:36 +0100
> Cc: 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > Go to e.g.,
> > (info "(coreutils) Sorting the output")
> >
> > See that line at the top,
> > ... > ... > ... >
> > Looks good, right? Let's try to copy it with ^K.
> > As much as you try, you will only get
> > File: coreutils.info,  Node: Sorting the output...
> >
> > One needs to probably use emacs -nw in order to copy it.
> 
> I guess it's an overlay, so it is like that by design.

Indeed.

We could perhaps provide a command to copy that string, patches
welcome.

Message #17 received at 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> suse.de>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>,
 jidanni <at> jidanni.org
Subject: Re: bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 17:25:39 +0100

On Dez 07 2016, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:

>> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>
>> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 12:29:36 +0100
>> Cc: 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> 
>> > Go to e.g.,
>> > (info "(coreutils) Sorting the output")
>> >
>> > See that line at the top,
>> > ... > ... > ... >
>> > Looks good, right? Let's try to copy it with ^K.
>> > As much as you try, you will only get
>> > File: coreutils.info,  Node: Sorting the output...
>> >
>> > One needs to probably use emacs -nw in order to copy it.
>> 
>> I guess it's an overlay, so it is like that by design.
>
> Indeed.
>
> We could perhaps provide a command to copy that string, patches
> welcome.

The string is available from the C-x = buffer.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, SUSE Labs, schwab <at> suse.de
GPG Key fingerprint = 0196 BAD8 1CE9 1970 F4BE  1748 E4D4 88E3 0EEA B9D7
"And now for something completely different."

Message #22 received at 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> suse.de>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>,
 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2016 00:32:30 +0800

>>>>> "AS" == Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> suse.de> writes:

AS> The string is available from the C-x = buffer.

One apparently must put the cursor on the first (the only possible)
character, hit C-x =, and then dig it out of the *Messages* buffer,
encrusted in:

Char: F (70, #o106, #x46, part of display "File..."->"(coreutils)Top > Directory listing > ls invocation > Sorting the output
") point=232756 of 849416 (27%) <232756-235061> column=0

Not very user friendly.

Message #25 received at 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> suse.de>
Cc: 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, mbork <at> mbork.pl, jidanni <at> jidanni.org
Subject: Re: bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 18:59:32 +0200

> From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> suse.de>
> Cc: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>,  jidanni <at> jidanni.org,  25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 17:25:39 +0100
> 
> > We could perhaps provide a command to copy that string, patches
> > welcome.
> 
> The string is available from the C-x = buffer.

Right.  I meant something similar to Info-copy-current-node-name.

Message #28 received at 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>,
 Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> suse.de>
Cc: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>, 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 09:02:35 -0800 (PST)

> > The string is available from the C-x = buffer.
> 
> One apparently must put the cursor on the first (the only possible)
> character, hit C-x =, and then dig it out of the *Messages* buffer,
> encrusted in:
> 
> Char: F (70, #o106, #x46, part of display "File..."->"(coreutils)Top >
> Directory listing > ls invocation > Sorting the output
> ") point=232756 of 849416 (27%) <232756-235061> column=0
> 
> Not very user friendly.

Indeed.  You can at least use `C-u C-x =', and then get it from the
*Help* buffer that is shown.

But this is a workaround, and it is unlikely that someone looking
to copy that text will think of it.

On the other hand, I disagree that we should add a special command
just for copying Info breadcrumbs.  A _general_ solution to the need
to copy displayed stuff (including overlays) should instead be sought.

Message #31 received at 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> suse.de>, Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>,
 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2016 01:11:14 +0800

>>>>> "DA" == Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

DA> On the other hand, I disagree that we should add a special command
DA> just for copying Info breadcrumbs.  A _general_ solution to the need
DA> to copy displayed stuff (including overlays) should instead be sought.

Indeed, when I want to copy any of that \212\311\212\112\121 binary
stuff as is, I have to start again with emacs -nw!

Message #34 received at 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> suse.de>
Cc: 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, mbork <at> mbork.pl, jidanni <at> jidanni.org
Subject: RE: bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 09:46:26 -0800 (PST)

> > > We could perhaps provide a command to copy that string, patches
> > > welcome.
> >
> > The string is available from the C-x = buffer.
> 
> Right.  I meant something similar to Info-copy-current-node-name.

I forgot about that command.  Maybe let `C-u' just extend it
to copy the text of such breadcrumbs (whether or not the
breadcrumbs are displayed).

Kind of like a relative file name vs an absolute file name.

Message #37 received at 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: schwab <at> suse.de, 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, mbork <at> mbork.pl, jidanni <at> jidanni.org
Subject: Re: bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 21:37:11 +0200

> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 09:02:35 -0800 (PST)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> Cc: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>, 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On the other hand, I disagree that we should add a special command
> just for copying Info breadcrumbs.  A _general_ solution to the need
> to copy displayed stuff (including overlays) should instead be sought.

What would be the UI, assuming we don't want the user to have to find
out on her own that there's an overlay or a display property at some
point?

Message #40 received at 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: schwab <at> suse.de, 25131 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, mbork <at> mbork.pl, jidanni <at> jidanni.org
Subject: RE: bug#25131: thwarted from copying what one sees in Info
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 15:21:13 -0800 (PST)

> > On the other hand, I disagree that we should add a special command
> > just for copying Info breadcrumbs.  A _general_ solution to the need
> > to copy displayed stuff (including overlays) should instead be sought.
> 
> What would be the UI, assuming we don't want the user to have to find
> out on her own that there's an overlay or a display property at some
> point?

I don't know.  We can think about that possibility.

But for this bug, I think just extending the existing command that
gives you the node name, by letting a prefix arg give it to you as
a full path (breadcrumbs - in whatever textual form), would be good.

Wrt knowing whether an overlay etc. present (e.g., whether some
displayed text is copiable from the buffer or is a display artifact):
That's a general UI problem.  Perhaps when a user tries to perform
some actions (e.g. copy text) a message should tell her that the
text is just for display etc.

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