GNU bug report logs - #19272
25.0.50; electric-indent-mode: Appears to do the opposite

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: raman <raman <at> google.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 25.0.50; electric-indent-mode: Appears to do the opposite
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 09:34:12 -0800

In both Emacs 24.4 -- as well as Emacs 25 built from head:

In lisp buffers electric-indent-mode is on by default.

But if it is on, then hitting C-j does not indent -- it ends up leaving
point on the first column in the newly inserted line.

I do have 10  in the list electric-indent-chars.

Even stranger, turning off electric-indent-mode results in the behavior
I want, ie C-j inserts a newline then inserts.



In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw scroll bars)
 of 2014-12-02 on raman-glaptop
Repository revision: cb2257edc4a4b74ce9b566edc2d15a54e1ce2f22
System Description:	Ubuntu 14.04 LTS

Configured using:
 `configure --enable-silent-rules --with-x-toolkit=lucid
 --without-compress-install'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG SOUND GPM DBUS GSETTINGS NOTIFY LIBSELINUX GNUTLS
LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Shell

Minor modes in effect:
  magit-auto-revert-mode: t
  recentf-mode: t
  gpm-mouse-mode: t
  erc-autoaway-mode: t
  savehist-mode: t
  ido-everywhere: t
  display-time-mode: t
  auto-insert-mode: t
  jabber-activity-mode: t
  jabber-mode-line-mode: t
  erc-list-mode: t
  erc-autojoin-mode: t
  erc-ring-mode: t
  erc-networks-mode: t
  erc-pcomplete-mode: t
  erc-track-mode: t
  erc-match-mode: t
  erc-fill-mode: t
  erc-stamp-mode: t
  erc-netsplit-mode: t
  erc-irccontrols-mode: t
  erc-noncommands-mode: t
  erc-move-to-prompt-mode: t
  erc-readonly-mode: t
  dynamic-completion-mode: t
  dired-omit-mode: t
  dirtrack-procfs-mode: t
  voice-lock-mode: t
  diff-auto-refine-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t

Recent messages:
Wrote /home/raman/.customize-emacs [2 times]
Marked buffer containing 5 lines
Killed region containing 5 lines
Point at column 2
ad-handle-definition: `find-tag' got redefined
ad-handle-definition: `pop-tag-mark' got redefined
ad-handle-definition: `tags-loop-continue' got redefined
No M-x tags-search or M-x tags-query-replace in progress 
Modification-flag cleared
End of buffer  [2 times]

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Message #8 received at 19272 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Alan Mackenzie <acm <at> muc.de>
To: raman <raman <at> google.com>
Cc: 19272 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19272: 25.0.50;
 electric-indent-mode: Appears to do the opposite
Date: 4 Dec 2014 22:11:39 -0000

In article <mailman.15269.1417714586.1147.bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org> you wrote:

> In both Emacs 24.4 -- as well as Emacs 25 built from head:

> In lisp buffers electric-indent-mode is on by default.

electric-indent-mode is now enabled everywhere, by default.

> But if it is on, then hitting C-j does not indent -- it ends up leaving
> point on the first column in the newly inserted line.

This is deliberate - the swapping of the actions of C-j and RET.  Most
people on the developers' mailing list agreed it was time to do this, for
the benefit of new users who expect auto indentation of the new line, but
who aren't used to typing C-j for it.

However, this change in key actions has been conflated with
electric-indent-mode.  En/dis-able that minor mode, and the action of your
keys is swapped.

> I do have 10 in the list electric-indent-chars.

10 is <LF>, aka C-j.  When you type a character which is in
electric-indent-chars, that causes electric indentation of the current
line (not the new one you may create).  I think that 10 causes
indentation of that line regardless of whether you type C-j or RET.

> Even stranger, turning off electric-indent-mode results in the behavior
> I want, ie C-j inserts a newline then inserts.

This is indeed strange, but is deliberate.  The two behaviours
(electric-indent-mode and the transpositions of the key actions) were
linked together "for simplicity".  If you want to have
electric-indent-mode enabled at the same time as having C-j and RET
behave traditionally, you're going to have to swap the key bindings or
start hacking the Emacs lisp code.

This situation is a big part of why I personally haven't upgraded to
Emacs 24.4.

> In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw scroll bars)
> of 2014-12-02 on raman-glaptop
> Repository revision: cb2257edc4a4b74ce9b566edc2d15a54e1ce2f22
> System Description:     Ubuntu 14.04 LTS

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Message #11 received at 19272 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: raman <at> google.com (T.V Raman)
To: acm <at> muc.de
Cc: 19272 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, raman <at> google.com
Subject: Re: bug#19272: 25.0.50; electric-indent-mode: Appears to do the
 opposite
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 14:54:44 -0800

Thanks for the explanation -- this is super helpful.

One suggestion:  couldn't we just have both C-j and RET   do newline-and-then-indent?

Alan Mackenzie writes:
 > In article <mailman.15269.1417714586.1147.bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org> you wrote:
 > 
 > > In both Emacs 24.4 -- as well as Emacs 25 built from head:
 > 
 > > In lisp buffers electric-indent-mode is on by default.
 > 
 > electric-indent-mode is now enabled everywhere, by default.
 > 
 > > But if it is on, then hitting C-j does not indent -- it ends up leaving
 > > point on the first column in the newly inserted line.
 > 
 > This is deliberate - the swapping of the actions of C-j and RET.  Most
 > people on the developers' mailing list agreed it was time to do this, for
 > the benefit of new users who expect auto indentation of the new line, but
 > who aren't used to typing C-j for it.
 > 
 > However, this change in key actions has been conflated with
 > electric-indent-mode.  En/dis-able that minor mode, and the action of your
 > keys is swapped.
 > 
 > > I do have 10 in the list electric-indent-chars.
 > 
 > 10 is <LF>, aka C-j.  When you type a character which is in
 > electric-indent-chars, that causes electric indentation of the current
 > line (not the new one you may create).  I think that 10 causes
 > indentation of that line regardless of whether you type C-j or RET.
 > 
 > > Even stranger, turning off electric-indent-mode results in the behavior
 > > I want, ie C-j inserts a newline then inserts.
 > 
 > This is indeed strange, but is deliberate.  The two behaviours
 > (electric-indent-mode and the transpositions of the key actions) were
 > linked together "for simplicity".  If you want to have
 > electric-indent-mode enabled at the same time as having C-j and RET
 > behave traditionally, you're going to have to swap the key bindings or
 > start hacking the Emacs lisp code.
 > 
 > This situation is a big part of why I personally haven't upgraded to
 > Emacs 24.4.
 > 
 > > In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw scroll bars)
 > > of 2014-12-02 on raman-glaptop
 > > Repository revision: cb2257edc4a4b74ce9b566edc2d15a54e1ce2f22
 > > System Description:     Ubuntu 14.04 LTS
 > 
 > -- 
 > Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Message #14 received at 19272 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Alan Mackenzie <acm <at> muc.de>
To: "T.V Raman" <raman <at> google.com>
Cc: 19272 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19272: 25.0.50; electric-indent-mode: Appears to do the
 opposite
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 15:58:24 +0000

On Thu, Dec 04, 2014 at 02:54:44PM -0800, T.V Raman wrote:
> Thanks for the explanation -- this is super helpful.

> One suggestion:  couldn't we just have both C-j and RET   do
> newline-and-then-indent?

AAAaarrgh!!!  Not as default, no.  People sometimes want to type in just
a newline from time to time.

Still, you are master of your own key map, and nothing stops you binding
C-j and RET appropriately.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Message #17 received at 19272 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: raman <at> google.com (T.V Raman)
To: acm <at> muc.de
Cc: 19272 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, raman <at> google.com
Subject: Re: bug#19272: 25.0.50; electric-indent-mode: Appears to do the
 opposite
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 09:44:26 -0800

Already done:-)

Alan Mackenzie writes:
 > On Thu, Dec 04, 2014 at 02:54:44PM -0800, T.V Raman wrote:
 > > Thanks for the explanation -- this is super helpful.
 > 
 > > One suggestion:  couldn't we just have both C-j and RET   do
 > > newline-and-then-indent?
 > 
 > AAAaarrgh!!!  Not as default, no.  People sometimes want to type in just
 > a newline from time to time.
 > 
 > Still, you are master of your own key map, and nothing stops you binding
 > C-j and RET appropriately.
 > 
 > -- 
 > Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

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