GNU bug report logs - #12491
24.2.50; `Info-insert-dir' should be able to not show msgs

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 24.2.50; `Info-insert-dir' should be able to not show msgs
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:42:02 -0700

`Info-insert-dir' is not an interactive function.  It can be called by
any Lisp code that wants to insert an Info directory.  Please provide an
optional MSG arg (or a NOMSG) arg, so that calling code can optionally
not show the message "Composing main Info directory...done".
 
In GNU Emacs 24.2.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2012-09-17 on MARVIN
Bzr revision: 110062 cyd <at> gnu.org-20120917054104-r93rtwkrtva73ewe
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
Configured using:
 `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/src
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/gnutls-3.0.9/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libiconv-1.13.1-1-dev/include
 -ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libxml2-2.7.8/include/libxml2'
 

Message #8 received at 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: <12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: bug#12491: 24.2.50;
	`Info-insert-dir' should be able to not show msgs
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:52:42 -0700

Example: code that inserts the directory into a temp buffer
to do something with it.  E.g.:

(Info-mode)
(info-initialize)
(Info-find-node-2 "dir" "top" t)

That invokes
(Info-virtual-call Info-directory-find-node "dir" "Top" t)
which invokes (Info-directory-find-node "dir" "Top" t)
which invokes (Info-insert-dir), which displays the message.

Message #11 received at 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#12491: 24.2.50;
	`Info-insert-dir' should be able to not show msgs
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 02:50:20 +0300

> `Info-insert-dir' is not an interactive function.  It can be called by
> any Lisp code that wants to insert an Info directory.  Please provide an
> optional MSG arg (or a NOMSG) arg, so that calling code can optionally
> not show the message "Composing main Info directory...done".

There are many other messages that you might not want to see.
Better than adding a new arg for all of them, maybe callers
should let-bind a variable like `messages-buffer-max-lines' to nil
that will avoid showing the message.

Message #14 received at 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Juri Linkov'" <juri <at> jurta.org>
Cc: 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#12491: 24.2.50;
	`Info-insert-dir' should be able to not show msgs
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 19:25:20 -0700

> > `Info-insert-dir' is not an interactive function.  It can 
> > be called by any Lisp code that wants to insert an Info
> > directory.  Please provide an optional MSG arg (or a NOMSG)
> > arg, so that calling code can optionally not show the
> > message "Composing main Info directory...done".
> 
> There are many other messages that you might not want to see.
> Better than adding a new arg for all of them, maybe callers
> should let-bind a variable like `messages-buffer-max-lines' to nil
> that will avoid showing the message.

Thank works too, I suppose. 

But I think that as a general rule it is better for a function that can interact
with the user (e.g. display a message) to also provide reasonably for use
without such interaction, assuming such a use makes sense for it.

If there are "many other" such messages, are there also many other such
functions displaying them?  Perhaps they are all defective in this regard.  

Better to set good examples than proliferate bad ones.  I don't know whether the
functions you have in mind are in fact candidates for becoming better citizens.
But if they are, cleaning them up is the right approach.

Message #19 received at 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
Cc: 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, 11851 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#12491: 24.2.50;
 `Info-insert-dir' should be able to not show msgs
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:49:55 +0200

Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org> writes:

>> `Info-insert-dir' is not an interactive function.  It can be called by
>> any Lisp code that wants to insert an Info directory.  Please provide an
>> optional MSG arg (or a NOMSG) arg, so that calling code can optionally
>> not show the message "Composing main Info directory...done".
>
> There are many other messages that you might not want to see.
> Better than adding a new arg for all of them, maybe callers
> should let-bind a variable like `messages-buffer-max-lines' to nil
> that will avoid showing the message.

As Eli pointed out, there's now `inhibit-message'.  Closing.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #24 received at 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
Cc: 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, 11851 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#12491: 24.2.50; `Info-insert-dir' should be able to not show
 msgs
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:05:02 -0700 (PDT)

> As Eli pointed out, there's now `inhibit-message'.  Closing.

That is not the Emacs way.  It is not what is recommended
in the manual. See (elisp) `Distinguish Interactive'.

--

The recommended way to test whether
the function was called using 'call-interactively' is to give it an
optional argument 'print-message' and use the 'interactive' spec to make
it non-'nil' in interactive calls.  Here's an example:

     (defun foo (&optional print-message)
       (interactive "p")
       (when print-message
         (message "foo")))

We use '"p"' because the numeric prefix argument is never 'nil'.
Defined in this way, the function does display the message when called
from a keyboard macro.

   The above method with the additional argument is usually best,
because it allows callers to say "treat this call as interactive".  But
you can also do the job by testing 'called-interactively-p'.

Message #27 received at 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: juri <at> jurta.org, larsi <at> gnus.org, 11851 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#11851: bug#12491: 24.2.50;
 `Info-insert-dir' should be able to not show msgs
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 22:03:34 +0300

> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:05:02 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> Cc: 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, 11851 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > As Eli pointed out, there's now `inhibit-message'.  Closing.
> 
> That is not the Emacs way.

It's in Emacs, so we clearly disagree with you.

Message #30 received at 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: juri <at> jurta.org, larsi <at> gnus.org, 11851 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 12491 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#11851: bug#12491: 24.2.50;	`Info-insert-dir' should be able
 to not show msgs
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:41:33 -0700 (PDT)

> > > As Eli pointed out, there's now `inhibit-message'.  Closing.
> >
> > That is not the Emacs way.
> 
> It's in Emacs, so we clearly disagree with you.

Yes, you do.  But Emacs doesn't, as I indicated, with a
citation.

Or perhaps you want to remove Emacs's current and past
recommendation...

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