GNU bug report logs - #9683
Undefined/undocumented terms

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (The Gnus Bugfixing Girls + Boys)
Subject: Undefined/undocumented terms
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:42:37 -0400

In the info manual, the page on Gnus Utility Functions
[[info:gnus#Gnus%20Utility%20Functions]] uses several terms that are
never defined, and other clarifications are in order:

> `gnus-newsgroup-name'
>      This variable holds the name of the current newsgroup.

Is that the prefixed or unprefixed name?

> `gnus-get-info'
>      Returns the group info list for GROUP.

"group info list" could use a cross-reference to
[[info:gnus#Group%20Info]]

> `gnus-active'
>      The active entry for GROUP.
> 
> `gnus-set-active'
>      Set the active entry for GROUP.

The term "active entry" is undefined.

> `gnus-server-equal'
>      Says whether two virtual servers are equal.

Where equality is defined how, for servers?

> `gnus-group-find-parameter'
>      Returns the parameter list of GROUP.  If given a second parameter,
>      returns the value of that parameter for GROUP.

Could use a link to [[info:gnus#Group%20Parameters]]




No Gnus v0.18
GNU Emacs 23.3.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin10.8.0, Carbon Version 1.6.0 AppKit 1038.36)
 of 2011-09-12 on pluto.luannocracy.com
200 Leafnode NNTP Daemon, version 1.11.8 running at localhost (my fqdn: pluto.boostpro.com)
500 Unknown command

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

Message #12 received at 9683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 9683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9683: Undefined/undocumented terms
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 21:57:11 +0200

Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:

>> `gnus-newsgroup-name'
>>      This variable holds the name of the current newsgroup.
>
> Is that the prefixed or unprefixed name?

Gnus group names are always full (which means prefixed, if prefixation
is required).

>> `gnus-get-info'
>>      Returns the group info list for GROUP.
>
> "group info list" could use a cross-reference to
> [[info:gnus#Group%20Info]]

Ok; added.

>> `gnus-active'
>>      The active entry for GROUP.
>> 
>> `gnus-set-active'
>>      Set the active entry for GROUP.
>
> The term "active entry" is undefined.

Defined.

>> `gnus-server-equal'
>>      Says whether two virtual servers are equal.
>
> Where equality is defined how, for servers?

Explained.

>> `gnus-group-find-parameter'
>>      Returns the parameter list of GROUP.  If given a second parameter,
>>      returns the value of that parameter for GROUP.
>
> Could use a link to [[info:gnus#Group%20Parameters]]

Added.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Message #15 received at 9683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 9683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9683: Undefined/undocumented terms
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 17:37:52 -0400

on Thu Oct 06 2011, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi-AT-gnus.org> wrote:

> Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:
>
>>> `gnus-newsgroup-name'
>>>      This variable holds the name of the current newsgroup.
>>
>> Is that the prefixed or unprefixed name?
>
> Gnus group names are always full (which means prefixed, if prefixation
> is required).

a. That statement is belied (or, at least, beconfused) by the fact that you
   specify whether it's prefixed or not for other functions:

   ,----[ (info "(gnus)Gnus Utility Functions") ]
   | `gnus-group-real-name'
   |      Takes a full (prefixed) Gnus group name, and returns the unprefixed
   |      name.
   | 
   | `gnus-group-prefixed-name'
   |      Takes an unprefixed group name and a select method, and returns
   |      the full (prefixed) Gnus group name.
   `----

b. "if prefixation is required" is so vague (to me) that your response
   is of no use to me in understanding anything.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

Message #18 received at 9683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 9683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9683: Undefined/undocumented terms
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 23:39:16 +0200

Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:

>> Gnus group names are always full (which means prefixed, if prefixation
>> is required).
>
> a. That statement is belied (or, at least, beconfused) by the fact that you
>    specify whether it's prefixed or not for other functions:
>
>    ,----[ (info "(gnus)Gnus Utility Functions") ]
>    | `gnus-group-real-name'
>    |      Takes a full (prefixed) Gnus group name, and returns the unprefixed
>    |      name.
>    | 
>    | `gnus-group-prefixed-name'
>    |      Takes an unprefixed group name and a select method, and returns
>    |      the full (prefixed) Gnus group name.
>    `----
>
> b. "if prefixation is required" is so vague (to me) that your response
>    is of no use to me in understanding anything.

I thought "a full Gnus group name" would be a hint.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Message #21 received at 9683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 9683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9683: Undefined/undocumented terms
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 17:59:33 -0400

on Thu Oct 06 2011, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi-AT-gnus.org> wrote:

> Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:
>
>>> Gnus group names are always full (which means prefixed, if prefixation
>>> is required).
>>
>> a. That statement is belied (or, at least, beconfused) by the fact that you
>>    specify whether it's prefixed or not for other functions:
>>
>>    ,----[ (info "(gnus)Gnus Utility Functions") ]
>>    | `gnus-group-real-name'
>>    |      Takes a full (prefixed) Gnus group name, and returns the unprefixed
>>    |      name.
>>    | 
>>    | `gnus-group-prefixed-name'
>>    |      Takes an unprefixed group name and a select method, and returns
>>    |      the full (prefixed) Gnus group name.
>>    `----
>>
>> b. "if prefixation is required" is so vague (to me) that your response
>>    is of no use to me in understanding anything.
>
> I thought "a full Gnus group name" would be a hint.  :-)

You're just getting cryptic-er and cryptic-er, Doc!

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

Message #24 received at 9683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 9683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9683: Undefined/undocumented terms
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2011 00:22:46 +0200

Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:

>>>    ,----[ (info "(gnus)Gnus Utility Functions") ]
>>>    | `gnus-group-real-name'
>>>    |      Takes a full (prefixed) Gnus group name, and returns the unprefixed
>>>    |      name.
>>>    | 
>>>    | `gnus-group-prefixed-name'
>>>    |      Takes an unprefixed group name and a select method, and returns
>>>    |      the full (prefixed) Gnus group name.
>>>    `----
>>>
>>> b. "if prefixation is required" is so vague (to me) that your response
>>>    is of no use to me in understanding anything.
>>
>> I thought "a full Gnus group name" would be a hint.  :-)
>
> You're just getting cryptic-er and cryptic-er, Doc!

A Gnus group name is prefixed or not, depending on whether it's a
primary server group or not.  But there's no need to repeat that every
time you say "group".  They are always that way in Gnus.

These functions convert from Gnus group names to non-Gnus group names,
and vice versa.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Message #27 received at 9683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 9683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9683: Undefined/undocumented terms
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 19:29:09 -0400

on Thu Oct 06 2011, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi-AT-gnus.org> wrote:

> Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:
>
>>>>    ,----[ (info "(gnus)Gnus Utility Functions") ]
>>>>    | `gnus-group-real-name'
>>>>    |      Takes a full (prefixed) Gnus group name, and returns the unprefixed
>>>>    |      name.
>>>>    | 
>>>>    | `gnus-group-prefixed-name'
>>>>    |      Takes an unprefixed group name and a select method, and returns
>>>>    |      the full (prefixed) Gnus group name.
>>>>    `----
>>>>
>>>> b. "if prefixation is required" is so vague (to me) that your response
>>>>    is of no use to me in understanding anything.
>>>
>>> I thought "a full Gnus group name" would be a hint.  :-)
>>
>> You're just getting cryptic-er and cryptic-er, Doc!
>
> A Gnus group name is prefixed or not, depending on whether it's a
> primary server group or not.  

more like vicey-versy. But I understand your meaning.

> But there's no need to repeat that every time you say "group".  They
> are always that way in Gnus.
>
> These functions convert from Gnus group names to non-Gnus group names,
> and vice versa.

I understand you see these functions are different from the others, and
you don't want to be explicit on the other function as a matter of
principle and consistency, but I'm just saying, when they're on the same
page with another function that fails to spell it out, it's confusing to
someone who is just trying to learn Gnus' internals... er, me.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

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