From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 08:28:58 2011 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2011 12:28:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7RLi-0005qa-FL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:28:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7RLf-0005qM-Bo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:28:52 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7RL7-0002nb-QB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:28:19 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:56557) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7RL7-0002nX-Of for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:28:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:58487) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7RL6-0004SF-EJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:28:17 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7RL5-0002n8-2e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:28:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:38213) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7RL5-0002n4-13 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:28:15 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7RL3-0008O8-Us; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:28:14 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:28:13 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 24.0.50; buffer name completion X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) If I type C-x k mes TAB, it completes to ` *message-viewer RMAIL'. Killing that buffer was rather a screw. I just fixed rmail so that won't be a screw. But I think this completion is a bug in its own right, and should be fixed too. I think it is a bug to complete to a buffer name that starts with a space, when the user did not type an initial space in the buffer name. These buffers are not supposed to be visible unless the user specifically asks to see them. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.4 (mips64el-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.12.12) of 2011-09-22 on theobromine2 configured using `configure 'CFLAGS=-g -O1'' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Emacs-Lisp Minor modes in effect: shell-dirtrack-mode: t gpm-mouse-mode: t tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t abbrev-mode: t Recent input: C-n C-n C-n ESC w C-u C-y ESC f ESC f - v i e w - b f f DEL DEL u f f e r ESC d C-n C-a C-o TAB C-@ ESC v C-g C-u C-u C-p C-u C-n C-n ESC f C-f C-@ ESC C-f ESC w C-u C-@ C-u C-@ ( C-y ) ) C-l C-k C-k C-x C-s C-a C-o TAB ; ; SPC U n s w a p SPC i r s t ESC b f C-e , SPC s SPC DEL o SPC w e SPC d o n ' t SPC l o s e SPC t h e SPC r e a l SPC b u f f e r SPC c o n t e n t s . C-x C-s ESC v ESC v C-p C-p C-e ESC b ESC b ESC b C-s C-w C-w C-w ESC < C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-s C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-a C-u C-p C-p C-p C-p C-o TAB ( l e t SPC C-_ C-_ C-_ C-u C-v C-u C-v C-u C-v C-u C-v C-u C-v C-u C-n C-u C-n C-u C-n C-u C-n C-n C-n C-n C-o TAB ( s e t q SPC b DEL k i l l - b u f f e r - h o o k C-a C-o TAB ( a d d - o o DEL DEL h o o k SPC C-h f RET ESC d C-d ' C-e SPC ' C-x 1 r m a i l - v i e w ESC - ESC / ESC / ) C-x C-s ESC x e m a c s ESC DEL r e p o r t SPC e m a TAB RET Recent messages: Wrote /home/rms/emacs-bzr/trunk/lisp/mail/rmail.el Auto-saving...done Saving file /home/rms/emacs-bzr/trunk/lisp/mail/rmail.el... Wrote /home/rms/emacs-bzr/trunk/lisp/mail/rmail.el Mark saved where search started Mark set Mark saved where search started Undo! [3 times] Saving file /home/rms/emacs-bzr/trunk/lisp/mail/rmail.el... Wrote /home/rms/emacs-bzr/trunk/lisp/mail/rmail.el Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow emacsbug find-func help-fns cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-bytecomp cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs epa-mail log-edit easy-mmode pcvs-util add-log vc ediff-merg ediff-diff ediff-wind ediff-help ediff-util ediff-mult ediff-init ediff vc-dispatcher parse-time vc-cvs pcmpl-unix etags sgml-mode arc-mode archive-mode mule-util cal-move cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs vc-bzr make-mode jka-compr ansi-color ind-util shell pcomplete grep compile comint ring dired-aux ispell multi-isearch rmailout dabbrev newcomment quail epa derived epg epg-config help-mode view mailalias qp rmailmm message sendmail format-spec rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader mail-parse rfc2231 rmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils dired regexp-opt t-mouse time-date battery paren cus-start cus-load tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer loaddefs button faces cus-face files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process dbusbind dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs) -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use free telephony http://directory.fsf.org/category/tel/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 14:45:19 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2011 18:45:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7XDy-0008Cm-EQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:45:19 -0400 Received: from vm-emlprdomr-04.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.145]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7XDw-00089j-Fi for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:45:17 -0400 Received: from furball (ip-64-134-71-96.public.wayport.net [64.134.71.96]) (authenticated bits=0) by vm-emlprdomr-04.its.yale.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8OIifcM029822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:44:42 -0400 From: Chong Yidong To: rms@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion References: Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:44:41 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:28:13 -0400") Message-ID: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 130.132.50.145 X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Richard Stallman writes: > If I type C-x k mes TAB, it completes to ` *message-viewer RMAIL'. > Killing that buffer was rather a screw. > > I just fixed rmail so that won't be a screw. But I think this > completion is a bug in its own right, and should be fixed too. > > I think it is a bug to complete to a buffer name that starts with a > space, when the user did not type an initial space in the buffer name. > These buffers are not supposed to be visible unless the user > specifically asks to see them. Another fix might be for C-x k to use confirm-nonexistent-file-or-buffer so that after you type TAB, Emacs prompts with [Confirm] when you try to exit the minibuffer immediately. `C-x b' already does this. Maybe it would be good to enable this for "b" interactive codes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 19:52:55 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2011 23:52:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7c1e-0006tS-K7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 19:52:55 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7c1c-0006tL-G5 for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 19:52:53 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7c13-0004sx-Dn; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 19:52:17 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 19:52:17 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: Chong Yidong In-reply-to: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (message from Chong Yidong on Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:44:41 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) Another fix might be for C-x k to use confirm-nonexistent-file-or-buffer so that after you type TAB, Emacs prompts with [Confirm] when you try to exit the minibuffer immediately. How would that change it? The buffer ` *message-viewer RMAIL*' did exist. Anyway, these buffers are supposed to be semi-hidden. It isn't right for them to pop up due a completion the user would not have expected. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use free telephony http://directory.fsf.org/category/tel/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 20:20:00 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2011 00:20:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7cRr-0007Uy-Lp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:19:59 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7cRo-0007Up-Kz for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:19:57 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R7cR8-0004Ig-G1; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 02:19:14 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: rms@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 24 Sep 2011 19:52:17 -0400") Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 02:19:10 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAGFBMVEXn6Ol3gYhBRUoDAQMp KS3///8XFRgJBgmqdkMbAAACbElEQVQ4jXWUwW7bMAyGlQLerpXRbNeZENwHEDBdV0FQrk4A37tE oK9tHYivv5920qUrJiBGwE8/SZGUzPifZW7+Wmubz2BoZ+9r6pp/wMZNs9TkpvP2A9innYQa0+TD haxg6FmCRMqzF3lr/oIHxtYjuckLT/L8DvaORYraQ8Y/2V7BQ5pqSQnhS4ZIXi9gT5njasfHrxIF bc/RId1QEqJ7H+RlAQMx/CfYXRavK5wbBYe+EPUinPrVDslWwQPsiSUhir+CFwUpUs+c3GIPCnBI gH20jjVKvuz3MgVpzHiwLfPRxXxat/vAc+CtGe+sgzNKU2BmzbZOvuZnM9o2RWtp52FHyRZBya8K 0DnU9SejKpCoIAlA11mrGWm1Mk+LYOfPZuha2AE4oWTMlf05QWcG28KeOJToNEo6hZQRyOzVkTpJ eRKpJfsznXx1Zk/kQFzOXlw4Q3Ds5xAB4CKSo4w25JrSXGkXzvRo9ugOQA6VGe3NUpzIkU5mkGXN em4tc4Gzgi4oWEuHhKBEGnONLVczTvMKKg6CWLSrhR7laMbHC8BBbAvECZ2sT2b8fgMIziLFScov M369xBDuCM6S9r8QwEEWSahHqwd60iiR0KhhWiRSupY6ii3OlGiH1o69SiAAsA6fRLF/1Sn5MoEI IyfbdtpPcuv4HFh0OtEvix8So906cAPqXYkUwE4tsnpbhxq+ymoGwCGXq7NcA4wB2etqs9TmcnG+ we87yHN4fr9qUcPemw32O55VcLmcd9h5rwCDkeXHzXWGp/uN3WAuyP2+fQCUwB3pOZoPT8aeOpRQ P82nR0bnpFwfmeEPeIw3HYaEet4AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Ford & Lopatin's _Emergency Room_: "Emergency Room (Gavin Russom Remix)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1R7cR8-0004Ig-G1 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1317514754.64626@qPufayB5zn9f99PCgREoyw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: Chong Yidong , 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Richard Stallman writes: > Anyway, these buffers are supposed to be semi-hidden. > It isn't right for them to pop up due a completion > the user would not have expected. Yeah, they ought to be hidden better than they are now. Otherwise the distinction between "user buffers" and "hidden buffers" (i.e., the ones that have name starting with a space) gets pretty meaningless. But as a developer, I find that selecting the hidden buffers can be meaningful. I think it would be a great feature is the hidden buffers stay more hidden unless you request them, and if there was some kind of command you could give to make them visible if you really want them to. For instance, if you said `C-u C-x b', perhaps the hidden buffers would be visible? And if you didn't say `C-u', the hidden buffers would be totally hidden? That would go for the normal `C-x b' and the ido version, too. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 24 21:04:58 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2011 01:04:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7d9N-0008WM-4B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 21:04:58 -0400 Received: from vm-emlprdomr-04.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.145]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7d9L-0008WG-8i for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2011 21:04:55 -0400 Received: from furball (dhcp-128-36-14-81.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.81]) (authenticated bits=0) by vm-emlprdomr-04.its.yale.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8P14JkR015294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 24 Sep 2011 21:04:20 -0400 From: Chong Yidong To: rms@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 21:04:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 24 Sep 2011 19:52:17 -0400") Message-ID: <87mxdtl9f0.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 130.132.50.145 X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Richard Stallman writes: > Another fix might be for C-x k to use confirm-nonexistent-file-or-buffer > so that after you type TAB, Emacs prompts with [Confirm] when you try to > exit the minibuffer immediately. > > How would that change it? The buffer ` *message-viewer RMAIL*' did > exist. It would probably have stopped you from accidentally entering the internal buffer by typing RET quickly after TAB. I agree though that the completion behavior is a bit screwy: typing TAB into the empty minibuffer does not bring up the hidden buffers in the completion list, whereas the more agressive partial-completion method does bring them up. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 25 04:35:55 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2011 08:35:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7kBn-0001n6-2I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 04:35:55 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7kBk-0001mx-8f for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 04:35:53 -0400 Received: from frontend1.mail.m-online.net (frontend1.mail.intern.m-online.net [192.168.8.180]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E244188B58E; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 10:35:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.8.164]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 547971C00147; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 10:35:13 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.180]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.8.164]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kA9-IxxwZJcf; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 10:35:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from igel.home (ppp-88-217-113-9.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.113.9]) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTP; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 10:35:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 501) id A3EDFCA296; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 10:35:08 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-Yow: I OWN six pink HIPPOS!! Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 10:35:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 25 Sep 2011 02:19:10 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: rms@gnu.org, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > For instance, if you said `C-u C-x b', perhaps the hidden buffers would > be visible? There is no need for a prefix, only to make a leading space special. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 25 13:35:12 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2011 17:35:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7sbf-0000KH-RG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 13:35:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7sbY-0000Jk-9V for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 13:35:06 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7sau-00022C-FY; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 13:34:24 -0400 Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 13:34:24 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-reply-to: (message from Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen on Sun, 25 Sep 2011 02:19:10 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) But as a developer, I find that selecting the hidden buffers can be meaningful. I think it would be a great feature is the hidden buffers stay more hidden unless you request them, and if there was some kind of command you could give to make them visible if you really want them to. There is supposed to be a simple way. You type a space at the beginning of the minibuffer in order to specify these buffers. I tried implementing this in internal-complete-buffer, but it had no effect on the results: the hidden buffers were always visible anyway. I guess the partial completion must have overridden it. Partial completion is too powerful. Perhaps some extension of the builtin completion is desirable by default, but this is too much. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use free telephony http://directory.fsf.org/category/tel/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 25 13:35:13 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2011 17:35:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7sbg-0000KK-KF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 13:35:13 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7sbb-0000K3-KS for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 13:35:08 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7say-00022i-Le; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 13:34:28 -0400 Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 13:34:28 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: Chong Yidong In-reply-to: <87mxdtl9f0.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (message from Chong Yidong on Sat, 24 Sep 2011 21:04:19 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87mxdtl9f0.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) > Another fix might be for C-x k to use confirm-nonexistent-file-or-buffer > so that after you type TAB, Emacs prompts with [Confirm] when you try to > exit the minibuffer immediately. > > How would that change it? The buffer ` *message-viewer RMAIL*' did > exist. It would probably have stopped you from accidentally entering the internal buffer by typing RET quickly after TAB. Why would it have done that? I don't follow. I don't see how it would have altered anything in this scenario. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use free telephony http://directory.fsf.org/category/tel/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 25 13:53:16 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2011 17:53:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7st9-0000kx-Du for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 13:53:16 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7st6-0000km-BL for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 13:53:14 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R7ssL-0001xs-7d; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 19:52:25 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: rms@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sun, 25 Sep 2011 13:34:24 -0400") Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 19:52:01 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAD1BMVEUeDxJDJCasqbQFAwZn VFmHfdPkAAACV0lEQVQ4jVWUgZXjIAxEhXEBYKuAmFAAXigAEfVf040gye7x4ofhIwGjcaha20WV VTXiUT+nKM6BxnfDOKrE4Cn917K+O6U0vsM5Zc/4gOdt4wSc54utRaosr3OBllkxywCJrjFiCHpY FhaNc4MxlB4uc4y9pXwkjUKWMegOUD1O+ygjHxexVM5NHDuhUL1LsVfd0rlrqLI1T6QvQnN8dE8/ 6VREyMbVSXzRujB0aHoO0urbRYNlATXgYogu1tqecahOoAmnIWdLAvozHMF5ANYswS0ZCWM3e7xA 8kAtxRUx1bfI/9W1WVabfwMVXlXhJB8wIKAOfa/ndLFKqADQM9cf/WTK2c5iALJLace3gllFPFTJ Q0MvbZsFylmS39R5RDw4x1D2DTsNRSmkNhdqIboq/eAwbAXNwt3ME6nALpDt0AO5wTqf5imXi92d 7uNFkmTHvMJp2PmqDdoF/PbO+fDeqYkccEFd9Qj7VUeKPnKNLDYxFpCAQqXeHdM0bJJg3oVsKIPq Gfwe1GyYLgCTTQoumE8qtagJI+Zunt02lWKBC5f0yInYBaZYlsga4V5ZvuDX95T2kcWXBcL4A5CK F9BcscW0+hhWwUevpRno1BgYC7aDnrc+IPOeNjPLvoPHfjelV70zJG25DJGo93Xk2GnvAPU4q4N8 xTx1P0k2iXwacGe9yaGaR4/3o8IZ+NitHqhAgXkjSiCl43s5LgaAyU/a5f0HcNpC7vo2cdiu9Tkg d6Tl6miSrdXQOZ7vyDDVHTK9zxpCXZXjQPXTimX/juofgKjwC/4B3eGbGthq5EQAAAAASUVORK5C YII= X-Now-Playing: Talking Heads's _The Name Of This Band Is Talking Heads (Disc 1: 1977-1979)_: "Heaven" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1R7ssL-0001xs-7d X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1317577945.55856@8S85woekzQVfpuLQRMzuDQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Richard Stallman writes: > There is supposed to be a simple way. You type a space at the beginning > of the minibuffer in order to specify these buffers. That works for the simple completion, but not for the partial completion or ido completion. But if the latter two were to treat initial spaces specially (to mean just "include hidden buffers"), and then do partial/ido completion, that would be great. That is, if you have a buffer called " *thing*", `C-x b SPC ing TAB' would complete to the " *thing*" buffer. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 25 14:46:03 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2011 18:46:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7tiE-00020D-Bm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 14:46:02 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7tiB-0001zw-Hv for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 14:46:00 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet21.oracle.com (rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p8PIjHpg014273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2011 18:45:19 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by rtcsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8PIjFPk013861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 25 Sep 2011 18:45:16 GMT Received: from abhmt109.oracle.com (abhmt109.oracle.com [141.146.116.61]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p8PIj9WJ004065; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 13:45:09 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.36.251) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 11:45:09 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: , "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Subject: RE: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 11:45:05 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: Thread-Index: Acx7qY/ZS2Nt2UyaSu6Ab+uDPkicNAAAgWmg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A020204.4E7F76BF.015A,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) > Partial completion is too powerful. Perhaps some extension of the > builtin completion is desirable by default, but this is too much. 1+ It is not so much that it is too "powerful", but that it can lead to unexpected and wildly off-the-mark completion candidates (as you point out from time to time, apparently with new surprise each time). The other problem, which compounds this problem, is that multiple types of completion/matching are tried, one after the other, in hopes of finding candidates. The default list of matching types includes partial completion. When a whole set of completion types (including partial) is tried in sequence, the result can be even more disorienting than is the result of partial completion on its own. Instead of letting a user know that a given type of matching has come up with `[No match]', and thus letting the user decide what to do about that (e.g. try a different type of matching - or not), it automatically assumes that the user wants to complete the current input at all costs, so it blithely moves on to the next type of matching in the list... To me, it's an overly clever misfeature. The user has no control over this, other than customization of the list of matching types to be used automatically. Such a choice of matching method / completion style should not be just a customization-time option. Better would be to have only one kind of completion used at a time (no automatic sequencing), and let users hit a minibuffer key (i.e., on demand) to change to the next completion type. IOW, let users choose at completion time which completion style(s) to use, on demand. Each time they change methods they can complete anew and find out whether there are matches using that method. The info `[No match]' is often helpful to users. By silently skipping over match failures, quietly moving on to try other, entirely different types of matching, we do users a disservice. Better to give them feedback about match failures, and give them (dynamic) control over which matching mechanism to use at any time. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 25 20:53:58 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2011 00:53:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7zSI-0005wU-1J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 20:53:58 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7zSG-0005wO-RV for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 20:53:57 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7zRc-0002gV-Bw for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 20:53:16 -0400 Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 20:53:16 -0400 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 9591 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) retitle 9591 completion of buffer names with leading spaces From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 25 21:01:09 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2011 01:01:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7zZE-0006rs-8u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:01:09 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7zZA-0006rj-UE for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:01:06 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R7zYU-0004M8-Ld; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:00:22 -0400 Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:00:22 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen In-reply-to: (message from Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen on Sun, 25 Sep 2011 19:52:01 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) But if the latter two were to treat initial spaces specially (to mean just "include hidden buffers"), and then do partial/ido completion, that would be great. Yes, that is what partial completion and ido completion ought to do with buffer names. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use free telephony http://directory.fsf.org/category/tel/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 25 21:19:14 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2011 01:19:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7zqk-0007Hw-7f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:19:14 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183] helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R7zqh-0007Hk-UV; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:19:12 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApcHACXSf05FpZLc/2dsb2JhbABAmT6OP3mBUwEBBAFWIwULCzQSFBgNiC+4S4cLBKBehEM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.68,441,1312171200"; d="scan'208";a="138474165" Received: from 69-165-146-220.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([69.165.146.220]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 25 Sep 2011 21:18:30 -0400 Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 70243660B6; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:18:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: rms@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion Message-ID: References: Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:18:30 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 24 Sep 2011 08:28:13 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) retitle 9591 Buffer substring completion matches hidden buffers. thanks > If I type C-x k mes TAB, it completes to ` *message-viewer RMAIL'. Hmm... that's probably a bug of the `substring' completion-style (AFAIK this doesn't happen with the partial-completion style). I don't have a fix for it yet. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 26 01:36:43 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2011 05:36:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R83ru-0006zU-9w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 01:36:43 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R83rq-0006zK-P1 for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 01:36:40 -0400 Received: from eliz by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R83r4-0004ox-BF; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 01:35:50 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 01:35:50 -0400 Message-Id: From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:18:30 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion References: X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: rms@gnu.org, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) > From: Stefan Monnier > Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:18:30 -0400 > Cc: 9591@debbugs.gnu.org > > > If I type C-x k mes TAB, it completes to ` *message-viewer RMAIL'. > > Hmm... that's probably a bug of the `substring' completion-style But `substring' is not in the default value of completion-styles. So how does it come into play here? By the way, this documentation of the `emacs22' style: Prefix completion that only operates on the text before point. I.e. when completing "foo_bar" (where _ is the position of point), it will consider all completions candidates matching the glob pattern "foo*" and will add back "bar" to the end of it. and a similar doc string of `basic', are either inaccurate/wrong (it never tells explicitly whether the "glob pattern" is interpreted as starting at the beginning of each candidate, but if it doesn't, why talk about "prefix"?), or there's a bug in the implementation of these styles, because I just customized completion-styles to include only one style, either `emacs22' or `basic', and I still see that "C-x b Mes TAB" completes to "*Messages*". Did I do something wrong? If these completion styles are _supposed_ to match the "glob pattern" not only at the beginning, then we should have an additional style that does. I think that fixing this will go a long way towards resolving Richard's problem, because he will then be able to customize completion-styles and have what he wants: the traditional, less "imaginative", but much more predictable style of completion. P.S. FWIW, I have no problems with the default completion operation, but that's me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 26 03:57:00 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2011 07:57:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R863f-0001kC-Mb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 03:57:00 -0400 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22]) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R863d-0001k4-Ck for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 03:56:58 -0400 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 26 Sep 2011 07:56:13 -0000 Received: from i59F57E93.versanet.de (EHLO escher.home) [89.245.126.147] by mail.gmx.net (mp042) with SMTP; 26 Sep 2011 09:56:13 +0200 X-Authenticated: #20778731 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18k7b5qYHgkSXd0N0pPmpiOUBWyGayonj9cwtnl/K WYvYFUHo1nNqxK Received: by escher.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C767622F16; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:56:12 +0200 (CEST) From: Stephen Berman To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion References: Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:56:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 26 Sep 2011 01:35:50 -0400") Message-ID: <87oby720v7.fsf@escher.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: Stefan Monnier , 9591@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 01:35:50 -0400 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Stefan Monnier >> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:18:30 -0400 >> Cc: 9591@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> > If I type C-x k mes TAB, it completes to ` *message-viewer RMAIL'. >> >> Hmm... that's probably a bug of the `substring' completion-style > > But `substring' is not in the default value of completion-styles. So > how does it come into play here? Via completion-category-overrides; with emacs -Q: ,---- | completion-category-overrides is a variable defined in `minibuffer.el'. | Its value is ((buffer | (styles basic substring))) | | | Documentation: | List of overrides for specific categories. | Each override has the shape (CATEGORY . ALIST) where ALIST is | an association list that can specify properties such as: | - `styles': the list of `completion-styles' to use for that category. | - `cycle': the `completion-cycle-threshold' to use for that category. | | You can customize this variable. `---- Steve Berman From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 26 04:43:43 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2011 08:43:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R86ms-0002q4-M6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 04:43:43 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R86mq-0002px-IF for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 04:43:41 -0400 Received: from eliz by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R86m0-0005yH-N8; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 04:42:48 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 04:42:48 -0400 Message-Id: From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stephen Berman In-reply-to: <87oby720v7.fsf@escher.home> (message from Stephen Berman on Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:56:12 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion References: <87oby720v7.fsf@escher.home> X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) > From: Stephen Berman > Cc: Stefan Monnier , rms@gnu.org, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:56:12 +0200 > > > But `substring' is not in the default value of completion-styles. So > > how does it come into play here? > > Via completion-category-overrides; with emacs -Q: Thanks. This variable should be mentioned in the doc string of completion-styles, IMO. Armed with this new knowledge, I customized completion-category-overrides to nil and completion-styles to `(emacs22), and the result is the kind of completion that Richard wanted and expected. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 27 13:46:11 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2011 17:46:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R8bjP-0004nb-J5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 13:46:11 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R8bjN-0004nT-LU for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 13:46:10 -0400 Received: from ucsinet23.oracle.com (ucsinet23.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p8RHjGVv005134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:45:18 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet23.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8RHjG2q011246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:45:16 GMT Received: from abhmt108.oracle.com (abhmt108.oracle.com [141.146.116.60]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p8RHjAOG003490; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 12:45:10 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.55.150) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:45:10 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" , "'Stephen Berman'" References: <87oby720v7.fsf@escher.home> Subject: RE: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:45:09 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acx8KF+F9BpiHO+lQfeuTMCaePvltQBDatJQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: ucsinet23.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4E820BAE.0128,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: rms@gnu.org, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) > I find arguments about defaults a waste of time. Echoes of those who claim political discourse and politics in general are a waste of time... 1. This thing about user surprise/confusion and lack of control is very much about the default behavior. Someone who explicitly chooses something like partial completion presumably knows what s?he's in for. Not necessarily so, someone using the default settings. You might not like discussing defaults (who does?), or you might think that doing so is a waste of time (sometimes it is), but arguing against discussing what the default behavior should be is simply an argument defending the status quo without giving any reason. This is a very old story... > I customized completion-category-overrides to nil and > completion-styles to `(emacs22), and the result is the > kind of completion that Richard wanted and expected. 2. That a given user such as Richard can customize away the default automatic chaining of completion methods is not the point. The question (I raise) is whether the default behavior should be to chain methods together. This was a *big* change in default behavior, beyond just the differences provided by any of the individual fancy matching methods (e.g. partial completion matching). It was hardly discussed (discussion was more or less discouraged, IMO). 3. My point in mentioning a user-controlled, on-demand approach (as, e.g., in Icicles) is that: 3a. Users can still define the list of methods to try - exactly as is the case now in Emacs (e.g. `completion-styles'). 3b. Users can have Emacs *not* automatically chain these methods together. They can have Emacs use only the first (or perhaps the last-used) method, by default. 3c. Users can nevertheless switch to the next method in the list - on demand. 4. We could also let an individual item in the methods list (`completion-styles') be itself a list of methods, as an alternative to a single method. When such a list item is chosen, its methods *would* be chained together automatically. IOW, let users decide whether and how much to use automatic chaining. In sum: A. Pick as the default behavior a single, simple/basic completion method, one with few surprises. B. Let users, as now, customize the list of available methods. C. Let users switch to the next method in their list on demand, by hitting a key. D. Let users choose (opt in) to have Emacs automatically chain among some methods, by using a list of those methods as an entry of the methods-list option (`completion-styles'). For example (`completion-styles' values): (basic emacs22 partial-completion) would you give basic completion by default, and let you cycle to Emacs 22 completion on demand (only), and then to partial completion and then back to basic..., by hitting a key in the minibuffer. ((basic partial-completion emacs22)) would give you the current, automatic-chaining behavior by default, and would not provide for any alternative (no other entry to cycle to, manually) (basic (basic partial-completion emacs22)) would give you basic completion by default, and would let you switch to the current default behavior of automatic chaining among basic, partial, and emacs22 on demand. And so on. Such an approach would give users control and flexibility. They could choose whether and when switching between methods should be on-demand vs automatic. But the important thing is for us to choose the default behavior wisely. IMO, the default should *not* use chaining and should probably not be partial completion. Avoiding these would present users with fewer surprises and gotchas, but they could still get all the bells and whistles available now - and more - if they want. P.S. As for polling the users, Richard said almost 3 years ago that they should be polled for this: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=1757#40 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 27 14:53:11 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Sep 2011 18:53:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R8cmF-0007Ak-7b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 14:53:11 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R8cmA-0007AZ-SY for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 14:53:08 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LS700M0032BWY00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 21:52:14 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.8.215]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LS700L14331I6L0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 21:52:14 +0300 (IDT) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 21:52:15 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Eli Zaretskii Message-id: <83mxdpg6n4.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87oby720v7.fsf@escher.home> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, rms@gnu.org, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 04:42:48 -0400 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: 9591@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org > > > From: Stephen Berman > > Cc: Stefan Monnier , rms@gnu.org, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org > > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:56:12 +0200 > > > > > But `substring' is not in the default value of completion-styles. So > > > how does it come into play here? > > > > Via completion-category-overrides; with emacs -Q: > > Thanks. This variable should be mentioned in the doc string of > completion-styles, IMO. Done (revision 105944 on the trunk). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 29 18:03:32 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2011 22:03:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R9OhY-00012j-8k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:03:32 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183] helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R9OhV-00012a-QT for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:03:30 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAKHqhE5FpZLc/2dsb2JhbABBqBp4gVMBAQQBViMFCwsOJhIUGA0kiA27AIcTBKBphEM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.68,463,1312171200"; d="scan'208";a="139226765" Received: from 69-165-146-220.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.146.220]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 29 Sep 2011 18:02:26 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 97A7A58DA6; Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:02:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Chong Yidong Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion Message-ID: References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:02:25 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (Chong Yidong's message of "Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:44:41 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: rms@gnu.org, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) >> I think it is a bug to complete to a buffer name that starts with a >> space, when the user did not type an initial space in the buffer name. >> These buffers are not supposed to be visible unless the user >> specifically asks to see them. Having looked a bit more into it, I'm undecided: we could go like you suggest and force users to type a leading space, but at least for my own use this would be inconvenient, since I pretty often need to get at hidden buffers, and often don't know the exact name of the buffer I want (and I don't even always know whether it's a hidden buffer or not, since Elisp authors aren't always very consistent about it). So I find it very handy to just say "C-x b *foo TAB" (or indeed just "C-x b foo TAB" in Emacs-24) and see all buffers that contain "foo", regardless of whether they're hidden or not. So it seems that both behaviors are desirable and I'm not sure how to tell which to use when. > Another fix might be for C-x k to use confirm-nonexistent-file-or-buffer > so that after you type TAB, Emacs prompts with [Confirm] when you try to > exit the minibuffer immediately. `C-x b' already does this. We could indeed do something like that when trying to kill a hidden buffer (for C-x k it can't be a nonexistent buffer, of course). > Maybe it would be good to enable this for "b" interactive codes. confirm-nonexistent-file-or-buffer already found resistance when I introduced it, so I expect people will complain if we generalize it to all "b" interactive specs, tho admittedly, I haven't thought about it very much. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 29 18:41:34 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2011 22:41:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R9PIK-0001uM-0F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:41:34 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R9PIA-0001u1-7A for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:41:24 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=lenovo) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R9PH2-0004dj-18; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 00:40:12 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:02:25 -0400") Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 00:39:55 +0200 Message-ID: <87k48rdlc4.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.90 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: LCD Soundsystem's _London Sessions_: "Us V Them" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1R9PH2-0004dj-18 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1317940812.22976@IoYNIU4xwf1TKlO0e46cnA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: Chong Yidong , rms@gnu.org, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Stefan Monnier writes: > So I find it very handy to just say "C-x b *foo TAB" (or indeed just > "C-x b foo TAB" in Emacs-24) and see all buffers that contain "foo", > regardless of whether they're hidden or not. So it seems that both > behaviors are desirable and I'm not sure how to tell which to use > when. The suggestion is that if you type `C-x b SPC foo TAB', you will then see all buffers that have names containing the substring "foo", no matter whether they have a leading space or not. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 30 02:43:57 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2011 06:43:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R9WpB-0004K6-16 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 02:43:57 -0400 Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R9Wp3-0004Ju-Qf for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 02:43:51 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LSB00K00P0ED100@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 09:42:43 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.74.35]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LSB00KGIPB77G40@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 09:42:43 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 09:42:46 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Stefan Monnier Message-id: <83bou2edjt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, rms@gnu.org, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > From: Stefan Monnier > Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:02:25 -0400 > Cc: rms@gnu.org, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org > > Having looked a bit more into it, I'm undecided: > we could go like you suggest and force users to type a leading space, > but at least for my own use this would be inconvenient, since I pretty > often need to get at hidden buffers, and often don't know the exact name > of the buffer I want (and I don't even always know whether it's a hidden > buffer or not, since Elisp authors aren't always very consistent about > it). So I find it very handy to just say "C-x b *foo TAB" (or indeed > just "C-x b foo TAB" in Emacs-24) and see all buffers that contain > "foo", regardless of whether they're hidden or not. > So it seems that both behaviors are desirable and I'm not sure how to > tell which to use when. There's what Lars suggested, which sounds like it can cater to both use cases. Failing that, add some non-default completion style which behaves like you want. I hope _you_ have no problems with customizing for non-default behavior ;-) > confirm-nonexistent-file-or-buffer already found resistance when > I introduced it I don't understand the resistance: that feature saved my a$$ a few times, when my fingers were faster than my brain. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 30 15:40:44 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2011 19:40:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R9iwt-0006i3-2E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:40:43 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181] helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R9iwr-0006hw-AC for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:40:42 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAB4ahk5FpZLc/2dsb2JhbABBqDGBBoFTAQEEAVYjBQsLNBIUGA0kLodguDOHIASgcoRD X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.68,468,1312171200"; d="scan'208";a="139411502" Received: from 69-165-146-220.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.146.220]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 30 Sep 2011 15:39:33 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id C0D5559119; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:39:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion Message-ID: References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83bou2edjt.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:39:32 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83bou2edjt.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 30 Sep 2011 09:42:46 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, rms@gnu.org, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) >> Having looked a bit more into it, I'm undecided: >> we could go like you suggest and force users to type a leading space, >> but at least for my own use this would be inconvenient, since I pretty >> often need to get at hidden buffers, and often don't know the exact name >> of the buffer I want (and I don't even always know whether it's a hidden >> buffer or not, since Elisp authors aren't always very consistent about >> it). So I find it very handy to just say "C-x b *foo TAB" (or indeed >> just "C-x b foo TAB" in Emacs-24) and see all buffers that contain >> "foo", regardless of whether they're hidden or not. >> So it seems that both behaviors are desirable and I'm not sure how to >> tell which to use when. > There's what Lars suggested, which sounds like it can cater to both > use cases. [ Going back to re-read it. ] Ah, now I see what he meant. I guess we could provide an ad-hoc completion style for buffers, but that's kind of ugly: completion styles are supposed to be agnostic to the underlying completion table and vice-versa. > Failing that, add some non-default completion style which behaves like > you want. I hope _you_ have no problems with customizing for > non-default behavior ;-) Indeed, I don't have a problem with that, tho I always prefer a solution where no configuration is necessary (i.e. find a middle ground). Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 30 17:05:13 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2011 21:05:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R9kGe-0000CD-QK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:05:13 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R9kGc-0000C6-Dt for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:05:11 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R9kFM-0004u8-20; Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:03:52 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:03:52 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-reply-to: <87k48rdlc4.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Fri, 30 Sep 2011 00:39:55 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87k48rdlc4.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) The suggestion is that if you type `C-x b SPC foo TAB', you will then see all buffers that have names containing the substring "foo", no matter whether they have a leading space or not. That seems like a reasonable thing for substring completion to do on buffer names. I think substring completion should not be enabled for buffer names by default, since it is too wild in its behavior. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use free telephony http://directory.fsf.org/category/tel/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 01 10:06:21 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2011 14:06:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RA0Cq-0007E6-JR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 10:06:21 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RA0Cn-0007Dy-CG for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 10:06:18 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RA0Ba-0005a5-Gq; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 10:05:02 -0400 Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2011 10:05:02 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: Stefan Monnier In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Fri, 30 Sep 2011 15:39:32 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83bou2edjt.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) I guess we could provide an ad-hoc completion style for buffers, but that's kind of ugly: completion styles are supposed to be agnostic to the underlying completion table and vice-versa. For common UI features in Emacs, convenience is more important than uniformity. This is one of them. Space at the start of a buffer name has always had special treatment in several ways; turning off the special treatment for completion is simply a bug. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use free telephony http://directory.fsf.org/category/tel/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 01 10:17:02 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2011 14:17:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RA0NB-0007Sf-Ry for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 10:17:02 -0400 Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RA0N8-0007SW-O1 for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 10:17:00 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LSE006004SEPN00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 17:15:44 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.229.231]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LSE006I84Y7PL10@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 17:15:44 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2011 17:15:43 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: rms@gnu.org Message-id: <83bou0dchc.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83bou2edjt.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) > Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2011 10:05:02 -0400 > From: Richard Stallman > CC: eliz@gnu.org, 9591@debbugs.gnu.org > > I guess we could provide an ad-hoc completion style for buffers, but > that's kind of ugly: completion styles are supposed to be agnostic to the > underlying completion table and vice-versa. > > For common UI features in Emacs, convenience is more important than > uniformity. This is one of them. Space at the start of a buffer > name has always had special treatment in several ways; turning off > the special treatment for completion is simply a bug. I think you are, in fact, in agreement with Stefan, who pointed out that making this special treatment the subject of a special style is not a good idea. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 01 16:56:18 2011 Received: (at 9591) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2011 20:56:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RA6bW-0001A2-SD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 16:56:17 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RA6bR-00019q-6h for 9591@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 16:56:10 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RA6aE-0005Js-9K; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 16:54:54 -0400 Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2011 16:54:54 -0400 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 From: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: <83bou0dchc.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sat, 01 Oct 2011 17:15:43 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83bou2edjt.fsf@gnu.org> <83bou0dchc.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591 Cc: 9591@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: rms@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) I think you are, in fact, in agreement with Stefan, who pointed out that making this special treatment the subject of a special style is not a good idea. I had a different interpretation for what he said, but I suppose he will make his position clear. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use free telephony http://directory.fsf.org/category/tel/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 01 20:28:42 2011 Received: (at 9591-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Oct 2011 00:28:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RA9v8-0006Bz-FC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 20:28:42 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181] helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RA9v6-0006Bs-SA for 9591-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2011 20:28:41 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AskFAH+vh05FpZLc/2dsb2JhbABBmWqOS4EGgVMBAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDYgytxqHJASgeYRD X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.68,475,1312171200"; d="scan'208";a="139566923" Received: from 69-165-146-220.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.146.220]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 01 Oct 2011 20:27:25 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id DA4B959291; Sat, 1 Oct 2011 20:27:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: rms@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#9591: 24.0.50; buffer name completion Message-ID: References: <87r5356aqu.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83bou2edjt.fsf@gnu.org> <83bou0dchc.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2011 20:27:24 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 01 Oct 2011 16:54:54 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9591-done Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 9591-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) > I think you are, in fact, in agreement with Stefan, who pointed out > that making this special treatment the subject of a special style is > not a good idea. > I had a different interpretation for what he said, but I suppose > he will make his position clear. I've installed a change which should solve your problem by only showing internal buffers when the user requested them explicitly. Stefan From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:29:03 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator