GNU bug report logs - #9382
Need an option for the default forwarding method

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (The Gnus Bugfixing Girls + Boys)
Subject: Need an option for the default forwarding method
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 14:09:27 -0800

If I don't want to do simple inlining, the default prefix argument (nil)
for gnus-summary-mail-forward results in attachments that are unreadable
on iPhones and iPads.  They don't seem to like multipart/alternative.
Any of the other prefix arguments (1-5) will work, with 2 and 3 giving
the results I like best.  I don't want to have to use a prefix every
time just to make sure my forwarded messages are received.  It would be
nice if `message-forward-as-mime' could have more options that would let
me choose different mime forwarding by default, or if there were some
other mechanism to make the prefix unneeded.


No Gnus v0.18
GNU Emacs 23.3.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin10.8.0, Carbon Version 1.6.0 AppKit 1038.36)
 of 2011-07-31 on vulcan
200 Leafnode NNTP Daemon, version 1.11.8 running at localhost (my fqdn: pluto.boostpro.com)
500 Unknown command

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

Message #10 received at 9382-close <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 9382-close <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default forwarding method
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 02:01:23 +0200

Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:

> If I don't want to do simple inlining, the default prefix argument (nil)
> for gnus-summary-mail-forward results in attachments that are unreadable
> on iPhones and iPads.  They don't seem to like multipart/alternative.
> Any of the other prefix arguments (1-5) will work, with 2 and 3 giving
> the results I like best.  I don't want to have to use a prefix every
> time just to make sure my forwarded messages are received.  It would be
> nice if `message-forward-as-mime' could have more options that would let
> me choose different mime forwarding by default, or if there were some
> other mechanism to make the prefix unneeded.

Option 2 is literally:

       ((eq arg 2)
	(setq message-forward-as-mime t
	      message-forward-show-mml nil))

So you can just set those variables to get that action without using a
prefix.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Message #13 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 03:43:24 -0400

on Sat Sep 10 2011, help-debbugs-AT-gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) wrote:

> Option 2 is literally:
>
>        ((eq arg 2)
> 	(setq message-forward-as-mime t
> 	      message-forward-show-mml nil))
>
> So you can just set those variables to get that action without using a
> prefix.

Hmm.  

I'm looking at the docs for message-forward-show-mml and it sounds like
that variable just affects what I see when I look at forwarded
messages... but if that were the case it wouldn't have any bearing on
what the recipient sees.  Maybe that doc needs a tweak?

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

Message #16 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 06:21:55 +0200

Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:

> on Sat Sep 10 2011, help-debbugs-AT-gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) wrote:
>
>> Option 2 is literally:
>>
>>        ((eq arg 2)
>> 	(setq message-forward-as-mime t
>> 	      message-forward-show-mml nil))
>>
>> So you can just set those variables to get that action without using a
>> prefix.
>
> Hmm.  
>
> I'm looking at the docs for message-forward-show-mml and it sounds like
> that variable just affects what I see when I look at forwarded
> messages... but if that were the case it wouldn't have any bearing on
> what the recipient sees.  Maybe that doc needs a tweak?

As far as I can tell, the difference between (say) 2 and 4 is:

if ARG is 2, forward message as an rfc822 MIME section;
if ARG is 4, forward message directly inline;

where the difference is `message-forward-show-mml' t or nil, is just how
it's displayed before you send it.  So I think the doc is correct?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Message #23 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 12:21:43 -0500

on Mon Sep 12 2011, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi-AT-gnus.org> wrote:

> Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:
>
>> on Sat Sep 10 2011, help-debbugs-AT-gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) wrote:
>>
>>> Option 2 is literally:
>>>
>>>        ((eq arg 2)
>>> 	(setq message-forward-as-mime t
>>> 	      message-forward-show-mml nil))
>>>
>>> So you can just set those variables to get that action without using a
>>> prefix.
>>
>> Hmm.  
>>
>> I'm looking at the docs for message-forward-show-mml and it sounds like
>> that variable just affects what I see when I look at forwarded
>> messages... but if that were the case it wouldn't have any bearing on
>> what the recipient sees.  Maybe that doc needs a tweak?
>
> As far as I can tell, the difference between (say) 2 and 4 is:
>
> if ARG is 2, forward message as an rfc822 MIME section;
> if ARG is 4, forward message directly inline;
>
> where the difference is `message-forward-show-mml' t or nil, is just how
> it's displayed before you send it.  So I think the doc is correct?

I'm referring to this:

  *Non-nil means show forwarded messages as MML (decoded from MIME).

It's not a matter of how they're "shown," but how they're
represented/enclosed in the new message.  The rest of the text doesn't
do anything to disabuse the reader of the impression that it's a
display-only thing.

  Otherwise, forwarded messages are unchanged.
  Can also be the symbol `best' to indicate that MML should be
  used, except when it is a bad idea to use MML.  One example where
  it is a bad idea is when forwarding a signed or encrypted
  message, because converting MIME to MML would invalidate the
  digital signature.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

Message #28 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 11:33:55 +0100

Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:

> I'm referring to this:
>
>   *Non-nil means show forwarded messages as MML (decoded from MIME).
>
> It's not a matter of how they're "shown," but how they're
> represented/enclosed in the new message.  The rest of the text doesn't
> do anything to disabuse the reader of the impression that it's a
> display-only thing.

It is virtually only a display-only thing.  If
`message-forward-show-mml' is nil, the Message buffer will show the raw
MIME message, as it'll be shown after forwarding.  If non-nil, it'll
decode the MIME to MML, and then (of course) re-encode to MIME again
when sending.

Unless I misunderstand what you're saying...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome

Message #31 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: "9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:32:34 -0600

If it were truly display-only, it couldn't have any effect on the ability of an iOS user to read the attachment. But it does. 

BoostPro Computing * http://boostpro.com
[Sent from coveted but awkward mobile device]
--

On Feb 2, 2012, at 4:33 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> wrote:

> Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:
> 
>> I'm referring to this:
>> 
>>  *Non-nil means show forwarded messages as MML (decoded from MIME).
>> 
>> It's not a matter of how they're "shown," but how they're
>> represented/enclosed in the new message.  The rest of the text doesn't
>> do anything to disabuse the reader of the impression that it's a
>> display-only thing.
> 
> It is virtually only a display-only thing.  If
> `message-forward-show-mml' is nil, the Message buffer will show the raw
> MIME message, as it'll be shown after forwarding.  If non-nil, it'll
> decode the MIME to MML, and then (of course) re-encode to MIME again
> when sending.
> 
> Unless I misunderstand what you're saying...
> 
> -- 
> (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
>  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome

Message #34 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 01:51:19 +0100

Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:

> If it were truly display-only, it couldn't have any effect on the
> ability of an iOS user to read the attachment. But it does.

Sounds like a bug.  Could you gzip up the original message and the
messages after its been through MML so that I can try to see what goes
wrong when encoding?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome

Message #37 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:49:34 -1000

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> wrote:
>
> Sounds like a bug.  Could you gzip up the original message and the
> messages after its been through MML so that I can try to see what goes
> wrong when encoding?

I could try, but specific instructions would be very helpful, so I
know I'm giving you the right thing.


-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

Message #40 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:52:42 +0100

Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:

> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> wrote:
>>
>> Sounds like a bug.  Could you gzip up the original message and the
>> messages after its been through MML so that I can try to see what goes
>> wrong when encoding?
>
> I could try, but specific instructions would be very helpful, so I
> know I'm giving you the right thing.

Save the original message to a file, and then save the message generated
by Message.  gzip the files.  Forward them to me.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome

Message #43 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 08:14:41 -1000

on Sat Feb 11 2012, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi-AT-gnus.org> wrote:

> Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sounds like a bug.  Could you gzip up the original message and the
>>> messages after its been through MML so that I can try to see what goes
>>> wrong when encoding?
>>
>> I could try, but specific instructions would be very helpful, so I
>> know I'm giving you the right thing.
>
> Save the original message to a file, and then save the message generated
> by Message.  gzip the files.  Forward them to me.

Sorry, I mean, I could think of various interpretations of

  "save the original message to a file"

and I am not sure how to see or save "the message generated by Message"

If you could clarify those two things, it would help.

Thanks,

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing
http://www.boostpro.com

Message #46 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:59:18 +0100

Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:

> Sorry, I mean, I could think of various interpretations of
>
>   "save the original message to a file"

Presumably `C-u g' will give you a buffer you can save.  

> and I am not sure how to see or save "the message generated by Message"

Send the message to yourself.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome

Message #49 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 23:23:08 +0200

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:
>
>> Sorry, I mean, I could think of various interpretations of
>>
>>   "save the original message to a file"
>
> Presumably `C-u g' will give you a buffer you can save.  
>
>> and I am not sure how to see or save "the message generated by Message"
>
> Send the message to yourself.

Was there any development here?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Message #52 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 20:08:45 +0200

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:
>
>> Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:
>>
>>> Sorry, I mean, I could think of various interpretations of
>>>
>>>   "save the original message to a file"
>>
>> Presumably `C-u g' will give you a buffer you can save.  
>>
>>> and I am not sure how to see or save "the message generated by Message"
>>
>> Send the message to yourself.
>
> Was there any development here?

Ping?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Message #55 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:53:02 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

on Wed Sep 05 2012, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi-AT-gnus.org> wrote:

> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:
>
>> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:
>>
>>> Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Sorry, I mean, I could think of various interpretations of
>>>>
>>>>   "save the original message to a file"
>>>
>>> Presumably `C-u g' will give you a buffer you can save.  
>>>
>>>> and I am not sure how to see or save "the message generated by Message"
>>>
>>> Send the message to yourself.
>>
>> Was there any development here?
>
> Ping?

I am no longer able to reproduce the behavior I was seeing on iPad.
Only message-forward-as-mime seems to change whether the attachment is
properly visible on iOS (it must be nil, or you just get some textual turds).
However, when message-forward-as-mime is t, changing
message-forward-show-mml does change the (incorrect) appearance of these
attachments in iOS.  

I'm not sure if this is what you wanted, but I've attempted to attach
the archive you asked for.

Is it possible for me to configure Gnus to attach messages as
<multipart/alternative> with a text part just like what I get with (setq
message-forward-as-mime nil) and another part that is the message
attachment as with (setq message-forward-as-mime t)?

[larsi.tar.gz (application/octet-stream, attachment)]

[Message part 3 (text/plain, inline)]

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing                  Software Development        Training
http://www.boostpro.com             Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers  C++  Boost

Message #58 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
	forwarding method)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 21:20:32 +0100

Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com> writes:

> I am no longer able to reproduce the behavior I was seeing on iPad.
> Only message-forward-as-mime seems to change whether the attachment is
> properly visible on iOS (it must be nil, or you just get some textual turds).
> However, when message-forward-as-mime is t, changing
> message-forward-show-mml does change the (incorrect) appearance of these
> attachments in iOS.  

The only difference in the messages was that there was a

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

in the rfc822 part in one of the messages, and not the other.

So whatever is going on, it sounds more like some transient Ios bug than
something Gnus controls.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Message #63 received at 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 9382 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9382: closed (Re: bug#9382: Need an option for the default
 forwarding method)
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2013 20:15:30 +0200

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> The only difference in the messages was that there was a
>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> in the rfc822 part in one of the messages, and not the other.
>
> So whatever is going on, it sounds more like some transient Ios bug than
> something Gnus controls.

And don't think there's much more here going on, so I'm closing this
report again.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

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