From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 24 12:20:01 2011 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Aug 2011 16:20:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QwGBM-00007q-Vx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:20:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QwGBK-00007a-C9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:19:59 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QwG8d-0002EP-Oj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:17:24 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:57218) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QwG8d-00026c-J2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:17:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:60448) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QwFxH-0004qD-FG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:05:33 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QwFx2-00083A-V4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:05:22 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:40651) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QwFx2-000834-Oy for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:05:12 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet22.oracle.com (rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p7OG58S8009054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 16:05:10 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by rtcsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p7OG57do022374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 16:05:08 GMT Received: from abhmt101.oracle.com (abhmt101.oracle.com [141.146.116.53]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p7OG52eo004756 for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:05:02 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:05:02 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.0.50; Explain in manual(s) Dired/ls permissions listing on Windows Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:05:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1EEEDDB70B5C4007B90959E3E5F2E5E5@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acxid5Sa9QHbk8SuTgW8Vf692bQtYw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090206.4E552137.0064,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) emacs -Q I see no explanation in the Emacs manual (for Dired) or in the Elisp manual (wrt file attributes or somewhere else) about what `ls' (hence Dired) lists wrt file permissions on Windows. The doc string of `file-attributes' is also pretty silent about this - it says simply "file modes" (doesn't even use the word "permissions"). Some explanation should be given about permissions. I'm using FAT32, for instance, and I see `x' for all directories and for no files. `chmod' with `+x' or `-x' has no effect, and with no message. No doubt this is due to Windows not supporting this. But that should be explained - documented. In Dired we show some permissions that apparently have no real meaning on Windows (FAT, at least), and we provide a command (`chmod') which on Windows does not do everything its doc says. OK, I'm using Cygwin for the UNIX `chmod', but regardless, there should be some explanation of these things in the manual(s). In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2011-08-22 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.5) --no-opt' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 10 22:23:33 2011 Received: (at 9362) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 02:23:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2Zhk-00067o-Dx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 22:23:32 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2Zhf-00067N-2A for 9362@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 22:23:27 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R2ZdT-0006J0-DT; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:19:07 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: 24.0.50; Explain in manual(s) Dired/ls permissions listing on Windows In-Reply-To: <1EEEDDB70B5C4007B90959E3E5F2E5E5@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:05:02 -0700") Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:12:44 +0200 Message-ID: References: <1EEEDDB70B5C4007B90959E3E5F2E5E5@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Tara Jane O'Neil & Nikaido Kazumi's _Tara Jane O'Neil & Nikaido Kazumi_: "Lullaby" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1R2ZdT-0006J0-DT X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1316312347.6773@7YJq6ZX5cujKQfV7Yi3rfQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9362 Cc: 9362@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > Some explanation should be given about permissions. I'm using FAT32, > for instance, and I see `x' for all directories and for no files. > `chmod' with `+x' or `-x' has no effect, and with no message. No doubt > this is due to Windows not supporting this. But that should be > explained - documented. Isn't explaining how file permissions on various file systems kinda beyond the scope of the Emacs manual? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 10 22:29:59 2011 Received: (at 9362) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 02:29:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2Zny-0006HK-Uj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 22:29:59 -0400 Received: from mail-fx0-f44.google.com ([209.85.161.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2Znw-0006HC-2B for 9362@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 22:29:56 -0400 Received: by fxe6 with SMTP id 6so3480727fxe.3 for <9362@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:25:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=n5d9Cx+e8OvBf+iQtLuf0cnj38Yz8U/zyvNz3ggmrQY=; b=pzWK4FYubEyMWcTVO7yjl4fE3ytolf9PJajq/bnTsaq4B83fKWx41Q1kjtXLfbkVnz IvMfYcux7h89xTsN+ElKRELlYc+nuVgiaqYWjP8erlBoHNbdQyQ7Yg8lnUW4YctXbXA1 QZSEPywJfVBat70AxMPYx+OWvQdUP/6tTyS/I= Received: by 10.223.85.154 with SMTP id o26mr1954262fal.72.1315707942271; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:25:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.43.105 with HTTP; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:25:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1EEEDDB70B5C4007B90959E3E5F2E5E5@us.oracle.com> From: Lennart Borgman Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:25:22 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#9362: 24.0.50; Explain in manual(s) Dired/ls permissions listing on Windows To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -3.6 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9362 Cc: 9362@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.6 (---) On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 04:12, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wro= te: > "Drew Adams" writes: > >> Some explanation should be given about permissions. =C2=A0I'm using FAT3= 2, >> for instance, and I see `x' for all directories and for no files. >> `chmod' with `+x' or `-x' has no effect, and with no message. =C2=A0No d= oubt >> this is due to Windows not supporting this. =C2=A0But that should be >> explained - documented. > > Isn't explaining how file permissions on various file systems kinda > beyond the scope of the Emacs manual? Isn't this is about what Emacs does, not about the various file systems? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 11 10:48:33 2011 Received: (at 9362) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 14:48:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lKj-0008VY-Hb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 10:48:33 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lKi-0008VS-AP for 9362@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 10:48:32 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet21.oracle.com (rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p8BEiD1t029522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 11 Sep 2011 14:44:15 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by rtcsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8BEiBaJ025878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 11 Sep 2011 14:44:12 GMT Received: from abhmt105.oracle.com (abhmt105.oracle.com [141.146.116.57]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p8BEi6Gw027163; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 09:44:06 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.62.110) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:44:05 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lennart Borgman'" , "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" References: <1EEEDDB70B5C4007B90959E3E5F2E5E5@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#9362: 24.0.50; Explain in manual(s) Dired/ls permissions listing on Windows Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:44:08 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcxwKiBQaG8gOwTJT0KAzzztkFdaFAAZqgCw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 In-Reply-To: X-Source-IP: rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4E6CC93F.00F7,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9362 Cc: 9362@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) > > Isn't explaining how file permissions on various file systems kinda > > beyond the scope of the Emacs manual? > > Isn't this is about what Emacs does, not about the various > file systems? Exactly. The _Emacs_ `ls' command is not sufficiently documented. In particular, what it does on Windows is special and needs to be described. Otherwise the output is meaningless to users. `ls' is an Emacs command. No outside doc for Windows will tell a user what it does. Likewise, `dired'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 28 07:14:54 2016 Received: (at 9362) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2016 11:14:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51330 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avjuF-0005nq-8A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 07:14:54 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:35700) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avjuA-0005nf-EM for 9362@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 07:14:49 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avju6-0001VL-DK; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:14:45 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Lennart Borgman Subject: Re: bug#9362: 24.0.50; Explain in manual(s) Dired/ls permissions listing on Windows References: <1EEEDDB70B5C4007B90959E3E5F2E5E5@us.oracle.com> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:14:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Lennart Borgman's message of "Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:25:22 +0200") Message-ID: <87twimnfx9.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9362 Cc: Drew Adams , 9362@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Lennart Borgman writes: > On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 04:12, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen w= rote: >> "Drew Adams" writes: >> >>> Some explanation should be given about permissions. =A0I'm using FAT32, >>> for instance, and I see `x' for all directories and for no files. >>> `chmod' with `+x' or `-x' has no effect, and with no message. =A0No dou= bt >>> this is due to Windows not supporting this. =A0But that should be >>> explained - documented. >> >> Isn't explaining how file permissions on various file systems kinda >> beyond the scope of the Emacs manual? > > Isn't this is about what Emacs does, not about the various file systems? Emacs displays this OS-specific information, sure, but I still think this is beyond the scope of Emacs documentation. Closing. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 28 07:15:10 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2016 11:15:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51334 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avjuX-0005wL-Oe for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 07:15:09 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:35707) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avjuW-0005u2-09 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 07:15:08 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avjuD-0001VW-OY for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:15:07 +0200 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:14:49 +0200 Message-Id: <87shy6nfx2.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #9362 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) tags 9362 wontfix close 9362 From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:11:34 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator