GNU bug report logs - #9362
24.0.50; Explain in manual(s) Dired/ls permissions listing on Windows

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 24.0.50; Explain in manual(s) Dired/ls permissions listing on Windows
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:05:02 -0700

emacs -Q
 
I see no explanation in the Emacs manual (for Dired) or in the Elisp
manual (wrt file attributes or somewhere else) about what `ls' (hence
Dired) lists wrt file permissions on Windows.
 
The doc string of `file-attributes' is also pretty silent about this -
it says simply "file modes" (doesn't even use the word "permissions").
 
Some explanation should be given about permissions.  I'm using FAT32,
for instance, and I see `x' for all directories and for no files.
`chmod' with `+x' or `-x' has no effect, and with no message.  No doubt
this is due to Windows not supporting this.  But that should be
explained - documented.
 
In Dired we show some permissions that apparently have no real meaning
on Windows (FAT, at least), and we provide a command (`chmod') which on
Windows does not do everything its doc says.  OK, I'm using Cygwin for
the UNIX `chmod', but regardless, there should be some explanation of
these things in the manual(s).
 

In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2011-08-22 on 3249CTO
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.5) --no-opt'
 

Message #8 received at 9362 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 9362 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: 24.0.50;
	Explain in manual(s) Dired/ls permissions listing on Windows
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:12:44 +0200

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> Some explanation should be given about permissions.  I'm using FAT32,
> for instance, and I see `x' for all directories and for no files.
> `chmod' with `+x' or `-x' has no effect, and with no message.  No doubt
> this is due to Windows not supporting this.  But that should be
> explained - documented.

Isn't explaining how file permissions on various file systems kinda
beyond the scope of the Emacs manual?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Message #11 received at 9362 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com>
To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 9362 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#9362: 24.0.50; Explain in manual(s) Dired/ls permissions
	listing on Windows
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:25:22 +0200

On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 04:12, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> wrote:
> "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:
>
>> Some explanation should be given about permissions.  I'm using FAT32,
>> for instance, and I see `x' for all directories and for no files.
>> `chmod' with `+x' or `-x' has no effect, and with no message.  No doubt
>> this is due to Windows not supporting this.  But that should be
>> explained - documented.
>
> Isn't explaining how file permissions on various file systems kinda
> beyond the scope of the Emacs manual?

Isn't this is about what Emacs does, not about the various file systems?

Message #14 received at 9362 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Lennart Borgman'" <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com>,
	"'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 9362 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#9362: 24.0.50;
	Explain in manual(s) Dired/ls permissions listing on Windows
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:44:08 -0700

> > Isn't explaining how file permissions on various file systems kinda
> > beyond the scope of the Emacs manual?
> 
> Isn't this is about what Emacs does, not about the various 
> file systems?

Exactly.  The _Emacs_ `ls' command is not sufficiently documented.  In
particular, what it does on Windows is special and needs to be described.
Otherwise the output is meaningless to users.  `ls' is an Emacs command.  No
outside doc for Windows will tell a user what it does. Likewise, `dired'.

Message #17 received at 9362 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>, 9362 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#9362: 24.0.50;
 Explain in manual(s) Dired/ls permissions listing on Windows
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:14:42 +0200

Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman <at> gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 04:12, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> wrote:
>> "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:
>>
>>> Some explanation should be given about permissions.  I'm using FAT32,
>>> for instance, and I see `x' for all directories and for no files.
>>> `chmod' with `+x' or `-x' has no effect, and with no message.  No doubt
>>> this is due to Windows not supporting this.  But that should be
>>> explained - documented.
>>
>> Isn't explaining how file permissions on various file systems kinda
>> beyond the scope of the Emacs manual?
>
> Isn't this is about what Emacs does, not about the various file systems?

Emacs displays this OS-specific information, sure, but I still think
this is beyond the scope of Emacs documentation.  Closing.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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