From unknown Sun Aug 17 09:11:12 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#9361 <9361@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#9361 <9361@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Reply-To: bug#9361 <9361@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2025 16:11:12 +0000 retitle 9361 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' reassign 9361 emacs submitter 9361 "Drew Adams" severity 9361 minor tag 9361 notabug thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 24 12:20:01 2011 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Aug 2011 16:20:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QwGBM-00007o-K1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:20:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QwGBJ-00007V-0y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:19:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QwG8a-00029X-Vz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:17:23 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:57212) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QwG8a-00020f-Ic for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:17:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:52046) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QwG23-0007Pu-Kt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:10:24 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QwG22-0000aq-JS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:10:23 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:33439) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QwG22-0000ak-E9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:10:22 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p7OGACiq017862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 16:10:14 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p7OGABOh005583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 16:10:12 GMT Received: from abhmt118.oracle.com (abhmt118.oracle.com [141.146.116.70]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p7OGA6cS002549 for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:10:06 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:10:06 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:10:05 -0700 Message-ID: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcxieEmrywkmw46jTr2e5NhFe7Aaew== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090206.4E552266.005E:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) This command was better before we added a default value (in Emacs 23). For one thing, the default value is a bit confusing - it uses one of the several possible syntaxes for `chmod' - the most verbose one, which means the most editing. For another thing, the default value comes from the current permissions of the first file that is marked. Privileging that file makes little or no sense when there are multiple files marked. A better value would come from the _minimum_ permissions for each of u, g, o, among all the files marked. A different argument could be made that the permissions of the current line should be used - to apply them without editing to all of the marked files. But even with such possible changes, I think it's a bad idea to provide any default for this command. For a third thing, if someone picks up that default value then more editing is required than just starting from nothing. It is a lot easier to type `g-w' than it is to back up the right number of chars and edit the `g=rw' (or whatever the current `g' permissions are) part of the default value, to get the proper new absolute permissions value for `g'. For a fourth thing, if the permissions are currently the same (for the first file, which is privileged here), then `a=rw' (or whatever the current permissions are) is a better default than `u=rw, g=rw, o=rw'. For one thing it is quicker to read and manipulate. For another, it teaches users that they can use `a' as a shortcut. The best approach is not to provide any default value here. A user of this Emacs command needs to know UNIX `chmod' anyway, and if known then it is not hard to type the permissions from scratch. If you really want to improve this, then let, say, `?' give some short help about `chmod' - e.g. present an example. But a default value is not helpful here. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2011-08-22 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.5) --no-opt' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 24 14:57:59 2011 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Aug 2011 18:57:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QwIeE-0002AF-6x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 14:57:59 -0400 Received: from smarty.dreamhost.com ([208.113.175.8]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QwIe9-0002A4-FN for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 14:57:54 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhostps.com (ps18281.dreamhost.com [69.163.218.105]) by smarty.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E576E8073; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08640451C28D; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:55:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Organization: JURTA References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:45:05 +0300 In-Reply-To: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:10:05 -0700") Message-ID: <87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 9361@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) > For another thing, the default value comes from the current permissions > of the first file that is marked. Privileging that file makes little or > no sense when there are multiple files marked. A better value would > come from the _minimum_ permissions for each of u, g, o, among all the > files marked. A different argument could be made that the permissions > of the current line should be used - to apply them without editing to > all of the marked files. It's intended to do something like this in 24.2 as described in http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/81414/focus=82988 > The best approach is not to provide any default value here. A user of > this Emacs command needs to know UNIX `chmod' anyway, and if known then > it is not hard to type the permissions from scratch. If you don't want the default value, just don't use it, don't type M-n. But for those who like to reduce typing and remembering different syntaxes it intentionally uses the most verbose and easy to remember syntax that is closest to the syntax of modes displayed in the left column of the Dired buffer. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 10 22:30:55 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 02:30:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2Zot-00070Y-AU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 22:30:55 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2Zos-00070R-1A for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 22:30:54 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R2Zkg-0006VK-GY for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:26:34 +0200 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:23:34 +0200 Message-Id: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #9361 X-MailScanner-ID: 1R2Zkg-0006VK-GY X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1316312795.26211@qzwb26h/ZeM5LjTxySk6WA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) tags 9361 notabug close 9361 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 10 22:39:09 2011 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 02:39:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2Zwr-0007DK-3d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 22:39:09 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2Zwp-0007D6-29 for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 22:39:07 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R2Zsc-0006lW-ME; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:34:46 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' In-Reply-To: <87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:45:05 +0300") Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:23:31 +0200 Message-ID: References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> <87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Tara Jane O'Neil & Nikaido Kazumi's _Tara Jane O'Neil & Nikaido Kazumi_: "Nursery" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1R2Zsc-0006lW-ME X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1316313286.93108@1Z545ut26oLLHX/p79cY+w X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 9361@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Juri Linkov writes: > If you don't want the default value, just don't use it, don't type M-n. I agree, so I'm closing this report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 11 11:05:24 2011 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 15:05:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lb1-0001Bu-Bk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:05:23 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lay-0001Bn-VI for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:05:22 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet22.oracle.com (rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p8BF12cS012379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:01:04 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by rtcsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8BF10Ut020263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:01:01 GMT Received: from abhmt119.oracle.com (abhmt119.oracle.com [141.146.116.71]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p8BF0thZ007389; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 10:00:55 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.62.110) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 08:00:54 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" , "'Juri Linkov'" References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com><87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Subject: RE: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 08:00:58 -0700 Message-ID: <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcxwK2lVqZ5TkMXWQK+eCyEr0BeapAAZrcHA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 In-Reply-To: X-Source-IP: rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4E6CCD30.00B9,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 9361@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) > I agree, so I'm closing this report. I disagree, so I'm reopening it. In the _very_ long thread cited by Juri, there was only one comment on this proposal for a default value for `dired-do-chmod' etc. It was from RMS: "I am not sure that this is very useful. What are the values you think of providing?" There was no followup, and this was never approved. Juri makes the argument that this is handy because it lets you easily copy the permissions from "the marked file" and reuse them elsewhere. That is no argument when more than one file is marked. In fact it might be an argument for using as default the file of the current (cursor) line. It makes absolutely no sense to privilege the first of a non-singleton set of marked files. In reality, it is an argument for having a separate command to copy the settings (all of them) from the current line and then having, as default value for each of the `*ch*' commands, the value taken from that copied setting. And this would apply across Dired buffers, giving you an easy way to apply a particular set of values (settings). It could perhaps also apply to other Dired commands, such as `touch' (dunno). The point is that if we are going to copy settings from a particular file in order to make them available for, essentially, pasting operations to other files, then the target file being copied from should be clear. The copy operation should be an explicit user choice, not something implicit, based only on the first marked file (why not the last? or the 23rd?). From unknown Sun Aug 17 09:11:12 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: Did not alter fixed versions and reopened. Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:22:01 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # Did not alter fixed versions and reopened. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 11 17:45:47 2011 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 21:45:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2rqU-0005WB-Ps for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:45:47 -0400 Received: from vm-emlprdomr-02.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.143]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2rqS-0005Tt-Cl for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:45:45 -0400 Received: from furball (c-71-192-165-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net [71.192.165.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by vm-emlprdomr-02.its.yale.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8BLfOxG005571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:41:25 -0400 From: Chong Yidong To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> <87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:41:24 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 11 Sep 2011 08:00:58 -0700") Message-ID: <87bouqlptn.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 130.132.50.143 X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 'Juri Linkov' , 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' , 9361@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) I think there's a problem here, indeed. It's a bad idea to take an empty input to mean a certain default permission---especially when that default permission is not displayed in the prompt. The following patch makes dired-do-chmod demand a non-empty input. The precomputed permission is still available in the M-n `future history'. *** lisp/dired-aux.el 2011-08-04 00:58:07 +0000 --- lisp/dired-aux.el 2011-09-11 21:38:35 +0000 *************** *** 267,272 **** --- 267,280 ---- (format "%s: error" operation) nil)))) + (defun dired--read-permission-string (prompt default) + (let ((result "")) + (while (equal result "") + (setq result + (read-from-minibuffer prompt nil nil + nil nil default))) + result)) + ;;;###autoload (defun dired-do-chmod (&optional arg) "Change the mode of the marked (or next ARG) files. *************** *** 284,292 **** (match-string 1 modestr) (match-string 2 modestr) (match-string 3 modestr))))) ! (modes (dired-mark-read-string ! "Change mode of %s to: " nil ! 'chmod arg files default)) (num-modes (if (string-match "^[0-7]+" modes) (string-to-number modes 8)))) (dolist (file files) --- 292,303 ---- (match-string 1 modestr) (match-string 2 modestr) (match-string 3 modestr))))) ! (modes ! (dired-mark-pop-up nil 'chmod files ! 'dired--read-permission-string ! (format "Change mode of %s to: " ! (dired-mark-prompt arg files)) ! default)) (num-modes (if (string-match "^[0-7]+" modes) (string-to-number modes 8)))) (dolist (file files) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 12 08:09:35 2011 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Sep 2011 12:09:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R35KR-0001zj-2D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:09:35 -0400 Received: from smarty.dreamhost.com ([208.113.175.8]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R35KO-0001zb-5k for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:09:33 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhostps.com (ps18281.dreamhost.com [69.163.218.105]) by smarty.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 972AA6E809C; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 05:05:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE3C451C47C; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 05:05:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Organization: JURTA References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> <87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 14:39:47 +0300 In-Reply-To: <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 11 Sep 2011 08:00:58 -0700") Message-ID: <87k49e7zwc.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 9361@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) > In the _very_ long thread cited by Juri, there was only one comment on this > proposal for a default value for `dired-do-chmod' etc. It was from RMS: > > "I am not sure that this is very useful. What are the values > you think of providing?" > > There was no followup, and this was never approved. There was followup, but off-list unfortunately. I replied to RMS with: "The values are file attributes of all marked files (modes for M, owners for O, groups or G, timestamps for T). But now I see that these values are not very useful, so I withdraw my proposal." And RMS encouraged to do this for just one marked file: "When there is just one marked file, the feature could indeed be useful. So I suggest you limit it to that case, and document clearly where the default comes from, so that people will know how they can make use of the feature." > In reality, it is an argument for having a separate command to copy the settings > (all of them) from the current line and then having, as default value for each > of the `*ch*' commands, the value taken from that copied setting. And this > would apply across Dired buffers, giving you an easy way to apply a particular > set of values (settings). It could perhaps also apply to other Dired commands, > such as `touch' (dunno). Isn't what `M-.' you proposed earlier should do, i.e. pull the value from the buffer where the command was called? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 12 08:09:47 2011 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Sep 2011 12:09:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R35Ka-000201-0I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:09:46 -0400 Received: from smarty.dreamhost.com ([208.113.175.8]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R35KQ-0001zi-MA for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:09:37 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhostps.com (ps18281.dreamhost.com [69.163.218.105]) by smarty.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AA9A6E80A8; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 05:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 075E7451C47C; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 05:05:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: Chong Yidong Subject: Re: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Organization: JURTA References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> <87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> <87bouqlptn.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 14:49:23 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87bouqlptn.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (Chong Yidong's message of "Sun, 11 Sep 2011 17:41:24 -0400") Message-ID: <87mxea55u8.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' , 9361@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) > I think there's a problem here, indeed. It's a bad idea to take an > empty input to mean a certain default permission---especially when that > default permission is not displayed in the prompt. > > The following patch makes dired-do-chmod demand a non-empty input. The > precomputed permission is still available in the M-n `future history'. There are other demands that dired commands should not use `read-string' that returns the default value for an empty input. Please see http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2011-07/msg01200.html So we should either change `read-string' (backward-incompatible change) or to change `dired-mark-read-string' not to use `read-string'. Another solution is to add a new global variable that changes the default behavior of `read-string' and let-bind it in `dired-mark-read-string'. > + (while (equal result "") > + (setq result > + (read-from-minibuffer prompt nil nil > + nil nil default))) I think it should tell the user what's wrong, like `read-number' does with "Please enter a number." Too bad that currently semantically similar functions `read-string' and `read-number' differ significantly WRT handling an empty input and default values. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 12 10:49:58 2011 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Sep 2011 14:49:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R37pe-00064f-2g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 10:49:58 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R37pa-00064V-24 for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 10:49:55 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p8CEjTCc019050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Sep 2011 14:45:31 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8CEjSVv022673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 12 Sep 2011 14:45:29 GMT Received: from abhmt115.oracle.com (abhmt115.oracle.com [141.146.116.67]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p8CEjNn4014578; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:45:23 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.35.90) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 07:45:23 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Juri Linkov'" References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com><87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> <87k49e7zwc.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Subject: RE: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 07:45:12 -0700 Message-ID: <5ADF13D8156C4D8ABED2665831AC17F2@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87k49e7zwc.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Thread-Index: AcxxRD15MZ7/v0EURYK5alrvICn4BQAFOXQA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4E6E1B0B.0142:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 9361@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) > And RMS encouraged to do this for just one marked file: > > "When there is just one marked file, the feature could > indeed be useful. So I suggest you limit it to that case, > and document clearly where the default comes from, so that > people will know how they can make use of the feature." Great minds think alike. ;-) That was also one of my points: it doesn't make sense to do this when more than one file is marked. There is no reason to privilege the "first" of the set of marked files. > > In reality, it is an argument for having a separate command > > to copy the settings (all of them) from the current line and > > then having, as default value for each of the `*ch*' commands, > > the value taken from that copied setting. And this > > would apply across Dired buffers, giving you an easy way to > > apply a particular set of values (settings). It could perhaps > > also apply to other Dired commands, such as `touch' (dunno). > > Isn't what `M-.' you proposed earlier should do, i.e. pull the value > from the buffer where the command was called? No, I don't think so. I don't recall just what I proposed, but `M-.' in Icicles (on which I no doubt based my proposal) pulls into the minibuffer various things at/near point. In this case, that is not what I propose. The user should not have to move point to the permissions section to be able to get permissions etc. More importantly, what I'm proposing here is a _copy_ command, which copies file information for the file/dir of the current line. All available and pertinent file info would be copied. Then, the individual commands (`chmod' etc.) would have available, either (a) as default value (mentioned above) or (b) on-demand via a different minibuffer key from `M-n', the pertinent part of the copied info. E.g., for command `chmod', it is the file permissions part of the copied info that is pertinent, so (only) that would be used. For command `touch', it is the mod time of the copied file info that is pertinent, so that would be used. (This is akin to what is available in some editors for copying special properties (e.g. XML attributes, face/font info, conditional text values) and making them available via a `Paste Special' command. Whatever the last type of special copy, the `Paste Special' pastes that to its target.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 12 16:52:12 2011 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Sep 2011 20:52:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R3DUB-0008Ey-Ts for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:52:12 -0400 Received: from vm-emlprdomr-02.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.143]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R3DU9-0008Er-S2 for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:52:10 -0400 Received: from furball (dhcp-128-36-14-41.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.41]) (authenticated bits=0) by vm-emlprdomr-02.its.yale.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8CKliW3021333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:47:45 -0400 From: Chong Yidong To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> <87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> <87bouqlptn.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87mxea55u8.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:47:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87mxea55u8.fsf@mail.jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Mon, 12 Sep 2011 14:49:23 +0300") Message-ID: <877h5d1o9b.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 130.132.50.143 X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' , 9361@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Juri Linkov writes: >> I think there's a problem here, indeed. It's a bad idea to take an >> empty input to mean a certain default permission---especially when that >> default permission is not displayed in the prompt. >> >> The following patch makes dired-do-chmod demand a non-empty input. The >> precomputed permission is still available in the M-n `future history'. > > There are other demands that dired commands should not use `read-string' > that returns the default value for an empty input. Please see > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2011-07/msg01200.html > > So we should either change `read-string' (backward-incompatible change) > or to change `dired-mark-read-string' not to use `read-string'. I fixed up `dired-mark-read-string'; that's much safer, since there are only three callers to worry about. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 12 16:52:26 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Sep 2011 20:52:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R3DUQ-0008FQ-5S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:52:26 -0400 Received: from vm-emlprdomr-02.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.143]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R3DUO-0008FI-UU for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:52:25 -0400 Received: from furball (dhcp-128-36-14-41.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.41]) (authenticated bits=0) by vm-emlprdomr-02.its.yale.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8CKm1h3021466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:48:01 -0400 From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: close 9361 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:48:00 -0400 Message-ID: <871uvlqygv.fsf@stupidchicken.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 130.132.50.143 X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) close 9361 thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 14 07:29:23 2011 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2011 11:29:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R3nec-0004bb-12 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 07:29:23 -0400 Received: from smarty.dreamhost.com ([208.113.175.8]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R3neZ-0004bS-Gb for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 07:29:20 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhostps.com (ps18281.dreamhost.com [69.163.218.105]) by smarty.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A0F6E805F; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 04:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F395451C493; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 04:24:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: Chong Yidong Subject: Re: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Organization: JURTA References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> <87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> <87bouqlptn.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87mxea55u8.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <877h5d1o9b.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:20:58 +0300 In-Reply-To: <877h5d1o9b.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (Chong Yidong's message of "Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:47:44 -0400") Message-ID: <874o0fv085.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 9361@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) > I fixed up `dired-mark-read-string'; that's much safer, since there are > only three callers to worry about. Thank you, it's now safer. There are still two problems: In `dired-do-chmod': > (modes (dired-mark-read-string > "Change mode of %s to: " > ;; Insert initial input if there's only one file. > (unless (cadr files) default) > 'chmod arg files default)) Please don't insert the default value as initial input. Most of the time, users type short symbolic modes that add/remove permissions on one user part such as "a=rw" or "go-w". It would be annoying for them to delete initial input before typing symbolic modes. Another problem in `dired-mark-read-string': > STANDARD-VALUE, if non-nil, should be a \"standard\" value or > list of such values, available via history commands. STANDARD-VALUE is non-standard terminology. According to `read-from-minibuffer' it's named DEFAULT-VALUE. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 14 11:12:08 2011 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2011 15:12:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R3r8B-00054s-UR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:12:08 -0400 Received: from vm-emlprdomr-02.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.143]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R3r89-00054j-8B for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:12:06 -0400 Received: from furball ([128.36.14.25]) (authenticated bits=0) by vm-emlprdomr-02.its.yale.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8EF7Ujk015369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:07:31 -0400 From: Chong Yidong To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> <87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> <87bouqlptn.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87mxea55u8.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <877h5d1o9b.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <874o0fv085.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:07:30 -0400 In-Reply-To: <874o0fv085.fsf@mail.jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:20:58 +0300") Message-ID: <877h5b2mdp.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 130.132.50.143 X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 9361@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Juri Linkov writes: > Please don't insert the default value as initial input. > Most of the time, users type short symbolic modes that > add/remove permissions on one user part such as "a=rw" or "go-w". > It would be annoying for them to delete initial input > before typing symbolic modes. Fair enough; deleted. >> STANDARD-VALUE, if non-nil, should be a \"standard\" value or >> list of such values, available via history commands. > > STANDARD-VALUE is non-standard terminology. According to > `read-from-minibuffer' it's named DEFAULT-VALUE. I don't like DEFAULT-VALUE, because it's not the default returned by empty input. But I guess we should be consistent with read-from-minibuffer, so I changed it. We should revisit this issue at some point (in read-from-minibuffer too). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 14 12:14:41 2011 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2011 16:14:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R3s6g-0001D3-Q0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 12:14:40 -0400 Received: from smarty.dreamhost.com ([208.113.175.8]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R3s6f-0001Cu-Cj for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 12:14:38 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhostps.com (ps18281.dreamhost.com [69.163.218.105]) by smarty.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3036A6E80DF; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 09:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 996CE451C3FE; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 09:10:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: Chong Yidong Subject: Re: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Organization: JURTA References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> <87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> <87bouqlptn.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87mxea55u8.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <877h5d1o9b.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <874o0fv085.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <877h5b2mdp.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:54:20 +0300 In-Reply-To: <877h5b2mdp.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (Chong Yidong's message of "Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:07:30 -0400") Message-ID: <87obynruwb.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 9361@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) >>> STANDARD-VALUE, if non-nil, should be a \"standard\" value or >>> list of such values, available via history commands. >> >> STANDARD-VALUE is non-standard terminology. According to >> `read-from-minibuffer' it's named DEFAULT-VALUE. > > I don't like DEFAULT-VALUE, because it's not the default returned by > empty input. But I guess we should be consistent with > read-from-minibuffer, so I changed it. We should revisit this issue at > some point (in read-from-minibuffer too). Yes, we should revisit this issue later. Nowadays established terminology for functionality of accessing additional values (like in web browser's autocompletion) is SUGGESTIONS. From unknown Sun Aug 17 09:11:12 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 25 17:59:50 2012 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2012 22:59:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44079 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RqBoi-0001hl-My for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 17:59:50 -0500 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:44848) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RqBog-0001ha-Rs for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 17:59:47 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id q0PMxBSL029778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:59:12 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q0PMxA8D004021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:59:11 GMT Received: from abhmt103.oracle.com (abhmt103.oracle.com [141.146.116.55]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q0PMxAXw024406 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 16:59:10 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:59:10 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: bug #9361 - unarchive Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:59:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3399AA3990CB4050BB3363A3CB3B8BD1@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AczbtPIgQhc1LBr3SoSX678bCtcT4g== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4F208940.010E,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) unarchive 9361 thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 26 11:28:15 2012 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2012 16:28:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45723 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RqSBL-0007Nj-BS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:28:15 -0500 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:25453) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RqSBI-0007NV-LM for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:28:13 -0500 Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id q0QGRXNM003502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:27:33 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q0QGRV81026919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:27:32 GMT Received: from abhmt103.oracle.com (abhmt103.oracle.com [141.146.116.55]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q0QGRVO9017894; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:27:31 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:27:30 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Juri Linkov'" , "'Chong Yidong'" References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com><87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:27:29 -0800 Message-ID: <88378BBDA1F142B6A8CFF3961B3DEDDF@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcxwK2lVqZ5TkMXWQK+eCyEr0BeapAAZrcHAGshA9PAAJKwpYA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4F217EF6.0017,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 9361@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) This bug has not at all been fixed - AFAICT, everything I reported is still a problem. It should not have been closed. I tried to reopen this bug. It was archived (that's what comes from waiting for a response). I unarchived it (successfully). The unarchive message told me that unarchiving does not reopen the bug. So I then tried to reopen it again. No reply to my "reopen" mail - no change: still not reopened. I tried to reopen it again just now. Still no reply message and no change. There was never any response to what I reported as the bug. Instead, as is all too common, there was a side discussion... and that was it. The bug was closed without anyone ever addressing what I reported as the problem. You apparently fixed your own choice of a problem, which was not the problem that was reported. The default value of `dired-do-chmod' is still the same, inappropriate value. There is no reason to pick up the permissions from the _first_ of the marked files - makes no sense at all. And it is still not made clear to users which file the permissions are being copied from. Please read the bug report, and the followup passage cited below. Do I need to open a new bug and copy the 9361 report to it, i.e., to start over? > ping. > > > Juri makes the argument that this is handy because it lets > > you easily copy the permissions from "the marked file" and > > reuse them elsewhere. > > > > That is no argument when more than one file is marked. In > > fact it might be an argument for using as default the file > > of the current (cursor) line. It makes absolutely no sense > > to privilege the first of a non-singleton set of marked files. > > > > In reality, it is an argument for having a separate command > > to copy the settings (all of them) from the current line and > > then having, as default value for each of the `*ch*' commands, > > the value taken from that copied setting. And this would > > apply across Dired buffers, giving you an easy way to apply a > > particular set of values (settings). It could perhaps also > > apply to other Dired commands, such as `touch' (dunno). > > > > The point is that if we are going to copy settings from a > > particular file in order to make them available for, > > essentially, pasting operations to other files, then the > > target file being copied from should be clear. The copy > > operation should be an explicit user choice, not something > > implicit, based only on the first marked file (why not the > > last? or the 23rd?). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 26 20:53:27 2012 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2012 01:53:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45967 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rqb0I-0006UZ-S1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:53:27 -0500 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:60201 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rqb0H-0006UN-3M for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:53:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518DE451C7F3; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:51:42 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Organization: JURTA References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> <87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> <88378BBDA1F142B6A8CFF3961B3DEDDF@us.oracle.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 03:38:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <88378BBDA1F142B6A8CFF3961B3DEDDF@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:27:29 -0800") Message-ID: <8739b2ymtn.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.92 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 9361@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) You are citing the message that I already replied to. And it seems we are in full agreement on this issue. But since this is not a regression, why are you asking to fix it now? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 26 22:04:57 2012 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2012 03:04:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46006 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rqc7V-00086J-Ha for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:04:57 -0500 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:58125) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rqc7T-000867-Re for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:04:56 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id q0R34DgJ015179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 27 Jan 2012 03:04:14 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q0R34Dmg029288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 27 Jan 2012 03:04:13 GMT Received: from abhmt110.oracle.com (abhmt110.oracle.com [141.146.116.62]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q0R34CJx008919; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:04:12 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.35.238) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 26 Jan 2012 19:04:12 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Juri Linkov'" References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com><87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com><88378BBDA1F142B6A8CFF3961B3DEDDF@us.oracle.com> <8739b2ymtn.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Subject: RE: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 19:04:10 -0800 Message-ID: <21C675C5D4C64DE0B57C0A7A242A9A32@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <8739b2ymtn.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Thread-Index: AczclmJXYusXsQTFTsOJ0YwJvBAAhAACcegQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.4F22142E.006D,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 9361@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > You are citing the message that I already replied to. > And it seems we are in full agreement on this issue. > > But since this is not a regression, why are you asking to fix it now? I'm only asking that it be fixed. I'm not saying it needs to be fixed for 24.1. I was unable to reopen the bug - AFAICT it is still closed and marked `notabug'. If there is a plan to fix it, that's great - thx. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 27 02:25:47 2012 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2012 07:25:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46064 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RqgBu-0006Qn-Km for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 02:25:47 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:35471 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RqgBq-0006Qb-JK for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 02:25:44 -0500 Received: from [155.69.17.161] (port=44673 helo=furball) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RqgBE-0000a0-SF; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 02:25:05 -0500 From: Chong Yidong To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> <87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> <88378BBDA1F142B6A8CFF3961B3DEDDF@us.oracle.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 15:24:56 +0800 In-Reply-To: <88378BBDA1F142B6A8CFF3961B3DEDDF@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:27:29 -0800") Message-ID: <87obtpd2uv.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 'Juri Linkov' , 9361@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) "Drew Adams" writes: > This bug has not at all been fixed - AFAICT, everything I reported is > still a problem. It should not have been closed. Your suggestion in the original post was >> The best approach is not to provide any default value here. As Juri noted, if you don't want the suggested value, just don't type M-n. Since this command no longer accepts empty input as a permission, there is nothing else to fix. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 27 07:38:57 2012 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2012 12:38:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46306 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rql4y-0000hO-96 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:38:56 -0500 Received: from ps18281.dreamhost.com ([69.163.218.105]:33068 helo=ps18281.dreamhostps.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rql4v-0000hF-G8 for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:38:55 -0500 Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CC46451C7FC; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 04:37:07 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov To: Chong Yidong Subject: Re: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Organization: JURTA References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com> <87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com> <88378BBDA1F142B6A8CFF3961B3DEDDF@us.oracle.com> <87obtpd2uv.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 14:09:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87obtpd2uv.fsf@gnu.org> (Chong Yidong's message of "Fri, 27 Jan 2012 15:24:56 +0800") Message-ID: <874nvh2uet.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.92 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 9361@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) >> This bug has not at all been fixed - AFAICT, everything I reported is >> still a problem. It should not have been closed. > > Your suggestion in the original post was > >>> The best approach is not to provide any default value here. > > As Juri noted, if you don't want the suggested value, just don't type > M-n. Since this command no longer accepts empty input as a permission, > there is nothing else to fix. IIUC, the most recent Drew's suggestion was something different, i.e. what to use as a default value when more than one file is marked. Since this is a separate wish, then perhaps the best thing for Drew to do is to create a new wishlist report. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 27 10:43:48 2012 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2012 15:43:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46916 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rqnxs-0005jY-FJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:43:48 -0500 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:54273) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rqnxo-0005jK-E8 for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:43:45 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id q0RFgvNC007254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 27 Jan 2012 15:42:58 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q0RFgvWh024907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 27 Jan 2012 15:42:57 GMT Received: from abhmt120.oracle.com (abhmt120.oracle.com [141.146.116.72]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q0RFguKm020489; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:42:56 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.35.238) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:42:56 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Chong Yidong'" References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com><87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com><88378BBDA1F142B6A8CFF3961B3DEDDF@us.oracle.com> <87obtpd2uv.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:42:52 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87obtpd2uv.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: AczcxM24vOUY0qWSRxWCpXc8wLyf8QAPidDA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A020208.4F22C603.00CD,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 'Juri Linkov' , 9361@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > > This bug has not at all been fixed - AFAICT, everything I > > reported is still a problem. It should not have been closed. > > You apparently fixed your own choice of a problem, which > > was not the problem that was reported. > > > > The default value of `dired-do-chmod' is still the same, > > inappropriate value. There is no reason to pick up the > > permissions from the _first_ of the marked files - makes > > no sense at all. And it is still not made clear to users > > which file the permissions are being copied from. Please > > read the bug report, and the followup passage cited below. > > Your suggestion in the original post was > > >> The best approach is not to provide any default value here. You read what you want to read, apparently. Which part of the above text about our currently having an unclear, inappropriate default value did you not understand? Nothing has changed wrt the default value, except the treatment of empty input. > As Juri noted, if you don't want the suggested value, just don't type > M-n. Since this command no longer accepts empty input as a > permission, there is nothing else to fix. See above - there is plenty to fix. We should either provide no default value or provide one that makes sense. That's the bug that was reported. I made pretty clear what the problem was, even quoting the description more than once. Here goes again: >>> The point is that if we are going to copy settings from a >>> particular file in order to make them available for, >>> essentially, pasting operations to other files, then the >>> target file being copied from should be clear. The copy >>> operation should be an explicit user choice, not something >>> implicit, based only on the first marked file (why not the >>> last? or the 23rd?). > > Do I need to open a new bug and copy the 9361 report to it, > > i.e., to start over? Apparently so. #10624 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 27 11:59:46 2012 Received: (at 9361) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2012 16:59:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46975 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rqp9N-0007Ro-Qx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:59:46 -0500 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:33455) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rqp9L-0007RY-1i for 9361@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:59:44 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id q0RGwwxZ009030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:58:58 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q0RGwvuc000669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:58:57 GMT Received: from abhmt114.oracle.com (abhmt114.oracle.com [141.146.116.66]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q0RGwuNG015988; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:58:57 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.35.238) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:58:56 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Juri Linkov'" , "'Chong Yidong'" References: <03BC028E352D4173B985B3B34DF3193A@us.oracle.com><87zkiyabea.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1BDADB23B4434E0C9330F1B010F1E1CE@us.oracle.com><88378BBDA1F142B6A8CFF3961B3DEDDF@us.oracle.com><87obtpd2uv.fsf@gnu.org> <874nvh2uet.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Subject: RE: bug#9361: 24.0.50; default value of `dired-do-chmod' Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:58:52 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <874nvh2uet.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Thread-Index: Aczc8Iukl9kizfuZQHuv50EK7XtDLQAI9iBw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4F22D7D3.0006,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9361 Cc: 9361@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) > IIUC, the most recent Drew's suggestion was something different, > i.e. what to use as a default value when more than one file is marked. > > Since this is a separate wish, then perhaps the best thing > for Drew to do is to create a new wishlist report. It was not a separate wish. It was the point of the #9361 report: The default value is inappropriate when multiple files are marked. Just saying that a user is not forced to _use_ the default value is simply a cop-out. You can close lots of reports as `notabug' by saying the user is not forced to use some feature that is broken. Anyway, I submitted a new report, since this one went nowhere: #10624. From unknown Sun Aug 17 09:11:12 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator