From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 22 11:41:15 2011 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2011 15:41:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QvWcl-0001F1-5m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:41:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QvWcj-0001Eu-G0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:41:14 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QvWaP-0007Be-Fm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:38:50 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:55012) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QvWaP-0007Ba-EI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:38:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:60918) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QvWaO-0005yw-IK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:38:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QvWaN-0007BC-LQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:38:48 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:31085) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QvWaN-0007Ak-GD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:38:47 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet22.oracle.com (rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p7MFcffX024533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:38:43 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by rtcsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p7MFceMU028890 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:38:41 GMT Received: from abhmt113.oracle.com (abhmt113.oracle.com [141.146.116.65]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p7MFcZRf025290 for ; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 10:38:35 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:38:34 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.0.50; Bad return message from apropos buffer Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:38:35 -0700 Message-ID: <840C14A10BB9459C99EC66FB5818AC16@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acxg4Y3mEFvugSkHSfOyWo5RyDpJvg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090206.4E527803.01A8,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.2 (------) emacs -Q M-x apropos-variable RET frame-alist RET Click one of the variable names. You see the help for that variable, and this message appears: "Type M-x switch-to-prev-buffer RET to restore previous buffer, C-M-v to scroll help" In Emacs 23 you correctly see this message instead: "Type C-x 4 C-o RET to restore the other window, C-M-v to scroll help." In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2011-08-15 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.5) --no-opt' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 23 05:47:48 2011 Received: (at 9341-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Aug 2011 09:47:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QvnaF-0000b0-Bz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 05:47:48 -0400 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.23]) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QvnaC-0000ap-11 for 9341-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 05:47:45 -0400 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 23 Aug 2011 09:45:16 -0000 Received: from 62-47-62-149.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.62.149]) [62.47.62.149] by mail.gmx.net (mp011) with SMTP; 23 Aug 2011 11:45:16 +0200 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18pTalLe18pRcMwAh+NAG5BjaGR17yqto6UpI9/AP sCm57Q2fKe12g4 Message-ID: <4E5376A2.9080807@gmx.at> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:45:06 +0200 From: martin rudalics User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9341-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#9341: 24.0.50; Bad return message from apropos buffer References: <840C14A10BB9459C99EC66FB5818AC16@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <840C14A10BB9459C99EC66FB5818AC16@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9341-done Cc: Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) > emacs -Q > > M-x apropos-variable RET frame-alist RET > > Click one of the variable names. You see the help for that variable, and > this message appears: > > "Type M-x switch-to-prev-buffer RET to restore previous buffer, C-M-v to > scroll help" I now say "Type q in other window to quit". > In Emacs 23 you correctly see this message instead: > > "Type C-x 4 C-o RET to restore the other window, C-M-v to scroll help." This happens to be correct in the case at hand but is not necessarily correct when another buffer was displayed in that window before. Thanks, martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 23 10:11:49 2011 Received: (at 9341-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Aug 2011 14:11:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qvrhk-0001Rh-J5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 10:11:49 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qvrhj-0001RY-70 for 9341-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 10:11:48 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p7NE9Fs6020050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:09:17 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p7NE9FhB013810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:09:15 GMT Received: from abhmt118.oracle.com (abhmt118.oracle.com [141.146.116.70]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p7NE99Qq025001; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 09:09:10 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.59.167) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 07:09:09 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'martin rudalics'" , <9341-done@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <840C14A10BB9459C99EC66FB5818AC16@us.oracle.com> <4E5376A2.9080807@gmx.at> Subject: RE: bug#9341: 24.0.50; Bad return message from apropos buffer Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 07:09:08 -0700 Message-ID: <228BBC2F6160464081C08910077B68E6@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4E5376A2.9080807@gmx.at> Thread-Index: AcxheWH/D6Lk7xiuQR6EUVdyROoMXQAJCMUA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4E53B48E.00EE:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9341-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > I now say "Type q in other window to quit". Not too clear: quit what? Not too helpful: the user needs to move to the other window first? I don't recall ever seeing a message where we suggested that users perform a series of actions like that: move to the other window (which one, BTW), and then hit `q'. > > In Emacs 23 you correctly see this message instead: > > > > "Type C-x 4 C-o RET to restore the other window, C-M-v to > scroll help." > > This happens to be correct in the case at hand but is not necessarily > correct when another buffer was displayed in that window before. Whatever message we show should at least not be incorrect. Whether it is helpful or not is probably secondary to that. A message that is helpful in most of the typical contexts is perhaps better than no message, even if it is unhelpful some of the time - as long as it is not too incorrect. But I don't have a good suggestion. I leave it to your judgment. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 24 05:35:56 2011 Received: (at 9341-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Aug 2011 09:35:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qw9sJ-0006Fu-Gu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 05:35:56 -0400 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.23]) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qw9sG-0006Fl-6l for 9341-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 05:35:53 -0400 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 24 Aug 2011 09:33:18 -0000 Received: from 62-47-44-213.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.44.213]) [62.47.44.213] by mail.gmx.net (mp021) with SMTP; 24 Aug 2011 11:33:18 +0200 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/KXOMuVbvKqHbhkWgEdbT3MBO53tIOdo+UEg2xiI zCme99iJzZDbpJ Message-ID: <4E54C559.8050900@gmx.at> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:33:13 +0200 From: martin rudalics User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#9341: 24.0.50; Bad return message from apropos buffer References: <840C14A10BB9459C99EC66FB5818AC16@us.oracle.com> <4E5376A2.9080807@gmx.at> <228BBC2F6160464081C08910077B68E6@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <228BBC2F6160464081C08910077B68E6@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9341-done Cc: 9341-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) >> I now say "Type q in other window to quit". > > Not too clear: quit what? > > Not too helpful: the user needs to move to the other window first? I don't > recall ever seeing a message where we suggested that users perform a series of > actions like that: move to the other window (which one, BTW), and then hit `q'. "Type C-x 4 q to quit the help window"? martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 24 09:42:05 2011 Received: (at 9341-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Aug 2011 13:42:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QwDiW-0005vQ-QN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:42:05 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QwDiU-0005vJ-IC for 9341-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:42:03 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p7ODdQ9g025263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:39:28 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p7ODdPAl006470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:39:26 GMT Received: from abhmt117.oracle.com (abhmt117.oracle.com [141.146.116.69]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p7ODdKbG005954; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 08:39:20 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.58.10) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 06:39:19 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'martin rudalics'" References: <840C14A10BB9459C99EC66FB5818AC16@us.oracle.com> <4E5376A2.9080807@gmx.at> <228BBC2F6160464081C08910077B68E6@us.oracle.com> <4E54C559.8050900@gmx.at> Subject: RE: bug#9341: 24.0.50; Bad return message from apropos buffer Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 06:38:54 -0700 Message-ID: <568B25545CAD4B54A78FDA28EE7713AF@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4E54C559.8050900@gmx.at> Thread-Index: AcxiQOEMY3Y+NdrmQ0quT3qZlofLHwAIj6YQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4E54FF10.0079:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9341-done Cc: 9341-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > "Type C-x 4 q to quit the help window"? Yes, that works. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 24 10:05:13 2011 Received: (at 9341-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Aug 2011 14:05:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QwE4u-0007qo-L3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 10:05:13 -0400 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22]) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QwE4q-0007qf-VF for 9341-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 10:05:10 -0400 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 24 Aug 2011 14:02:33 -0000 Received: from 62-47-44-213.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.44.213]) [62.47.44.213] by mail.gmx.net (mp018) with SMTP; 24 Aug 2011 16:02:33 +0200 X-Authenticated: #14592706 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19+918CbC1+J/j9j3CMjlUaPnNBWVpVbrFwPuM3nE ua2NorHuKzSy7l Message-ID: <4E550478.10903@gmx.at> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 16:02:32 +0200 From: martin rudalics User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#9341: 24.0.50; Bad return message from apropos buffer References: <840C14A10BB9459C99EC66FB5818AC16@us.oracle.com> <4E5376A2.9080807@gmx.at> <228BBC2F6160464081C08910077B68E6@us.oracle.com> <4E54C559.8050900@gmx.at> <568B25545CAD4B54A78FDA28EE7713AF@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <568B25545CAD4B54A78FDA28EE7713AF@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9341-done Cc: 9341-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) >> "Type C-x 4 q to quit the help window"? > > Yes, that works. But for one minor detail: C-x 4 q is yet undefined. martin From unknown Sun Jun 22 20:55:56 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator