From unknown Thu Aug 14 17:24:19 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#9074 <9074@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#9074 <9074@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Reply-To: bug#9074 <9074@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 00:24:19 +0000 retitle 9074 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again reassign 9074 emacs submitter 9074 "Drew Adams" severity 9074 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 13 19:39:46 2011 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2011 23:39:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh91u-0008QD-5o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:39:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh91s-0008Q2-Ci for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:39:45 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh91i-0006UI-C3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:39:39 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:48047) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh91i-0006UD-0v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:39:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:46009) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh91g-0007ug-4D for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:39:33 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh91e-0006Tu-JN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:39:31 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:49795) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh91e-0006Ti-62 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:39:30 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p6DNdQi3025417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 23:39:28 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6DNdPk1011641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 23:39:26 GMT Received: from abhmt110.oracle.com (abhmt110.oracle.com [141.146.116.62]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6DNdKxN011578 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 18:39:20 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:39:20 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:39:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcxBthZjzU5ZBoCARlWr+w/OewPndw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4E1E2CB0.007D:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.3 (------) I quickly scanned some recent mails in emacs-devel about users being forced, one time only, to answer a question about their mailer, when they try to submit a bug. At least that's what I thought I read. That in itself sounded like something users of an outside mail client such as myself could live with. But it seems that what was described is nowhere near as annoying and confusing as what really happens. Before you get to the (confusing enough) question about SMTP mail configuration, where some users of outside mail clients will want to answer `n', never to be bothered again, you have to go through the same silliness we saw before (see previous bugs), about the `From:' field. If the user is going to answer `n' to the SMTP mail config question, in order to just use an outsider mailer (e.g. Outlook), then there is no reason for them to have to go through the silly dialog about "tickle me" and be told they must edit the `From:' field in order to be able to continue. The UI for this seems to be all backward. Whoever dreamed it up perhaps did not take serious enough the use case of a user who just wants to say, once and for all, "No, I do not want to use Emacs for mail. I do not want to configure SMTP mail". You've made it 42 times more complex than it should be. Please straighten this out. Not only that, but it is apparently the case that this is NOT a one-time ordeal. For emacs -Q, a user has to go through all of this EACH time. Just hitting `n' would be bad enough. But no one who will use `n' should have to go through all of this crap: "Is `joeblow@JOESMACHINE.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me' really your email address? (yes or no) " no "Please edit the From address and try again" WTF?, edit, edit, grumble, edit... C-c C-c "Send this bug report to the Emacs maintainers (yes or no) " yes "Configure outgoing SMTP in Emacs (y or n) " n Args out of range: 102021, 102022 [I saw that error one time I tried, from emacs -Q. I don't know how systematic it is. THIS bug report is only about the RIDICULOUS obstacle-course dialog we make users go through now, after asking them to please start each bug report from emacs -Q.] And why would we even think about mixing `(yes or no)' and `(y or n)' in the same dialog? Downright diabolical. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2011-07-11 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.5) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/build/include' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 13 19:54:32 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2011 23:54:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh9GB-0001Ca-Pw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:54:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh9GA-0001CP-Iq for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:54:30 -0400 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41955) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh9G5-0007oN-9U; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:54:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:54:24 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again In-Reply-To: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> X-Attribution: GM X-Mailer: VM (www.wonderworks.com/vm), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs) X-Hue: black X-Ran: oTx7XO_NXlbO$IZr,tS&!H*#T4Ks2Mn7g!7HZveFiR=cd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) Drew Adams wrote (on Wed, 13 Jul 2011 at 16:39 -0700): > THIS bug report is only about the RIDICULOUS obstacle-course dialog > we make users go through now, after asking them to please start each > bug report from emacs -Q. I never know who "we" is supposed to be. "We" don't ask people to submit bug reports from emacs -Q, that adds no value. What the instructions ask for is a *recipe starting from emacs -Q that shows the problem*. This is a way to get you to show how to reproduce the problem. Send the actual report from your normal, configured Emacs. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 13 20:05:49 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2011 00:05:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh9R7-0001UN-CQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 20:05:49 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh9R4-0001UA-QO for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 20:05:47 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p6E05cnh020597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 14 Jul 2011 00:05:40 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6E05c24008322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Jul 2011 00:05:38 GMT Received: from abhmt112.oracle.com (abhmt112.oracle.com [141.146.116.64]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6E05Woe011812; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:05:33 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:05:32 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Glenn Morris'" , <9074@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:05:35 -0700 Message-ID: <0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> Thread-Index: AcxBuFTVviuuCtSwQESvKTPZbjOzmAAALK8w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4E1E32D4.00C7:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) > > THIS bug report is only about the RIDICULOUS obstacle-course dialog > > we make users go through now, after asking them to please start each > > bug report from emacs -Q. > > I never know who "we" is supposed to be. Emacs Dev and all other little elves such as myself who contribute to its development. > "We" don't ask people to submit bug reports from emacs -Q, that adds > no value. What the instructions ask for is a *recipe starting from > emacs -Q that shows the problem*. Excuse my shorthand. That is precisely what I meant. > This is a way to get you to show how > to reproduce the problem. Send the actual report from your normal, > configured Emacs. No. For many people, including me, their normal, configured Emacs is far too complex to be the basis of most bug reports. We do not want to pick all of a user's extra customizations, if we can help it. I don't know where this mailer stuff is saved, but if it is saved in the user's `custom-file' or init file then in order to start from emacs -Q and get to a reasonable bug-report state s?he needs to answer this mail nonsense EACH time. This is (should be considered) totally unacceptable. It works against what _we_ want in terms of bug reporting. Not to mention that it is simply not nice to users. At the very least we should be able to get rid of the backwardness: making users who will ultimately hit `n' for SMTP configuration jump through lots of irrelevant obstacles. Ask the SMTP question first, if you absolutely must ask it each time, and then DTRT for a `n' response. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 14 04:30:30 2011 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2011 08:30:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhHJW-0001t7-CA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhHJP-0001sp-94 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:28 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QhHJE-0008PW-AN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:17 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RP_MATCHES_RCVD,T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:50081) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QhHJD-0008PL-SV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:49260) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QhHJ9-0001hp-Bk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:11 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QhHJ1-0008IA-2Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:30:06 -0400 Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:45589) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QhHJ0-0008Hc-J6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 04:29:58 -0400 Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhHIv-0002Uk-Lg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:29:53 +0200 Received: from static-93.158.79.70.got.public.icomera.com ([93.158.79.70]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:29:53 +0200 Received: from wence by static-93.158.79.70.got.public.icomera.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:29:53 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Lawrence Mitchell Subject: Re: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:29:21 +0100 Lines: 81 Message-ID: <877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li> References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> <0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: static-93.158.79.70.got.public.icomera.com User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:wSYWikyb+EbPlt2OLEMSRLdF7/8= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -5.9 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.9 (-----) Drew Adams wrote: [...] >> This is a way to get you to show how >> to reproduce the problem. Send the actual report from your normal, >> configured Emacs. > No. For many people, including me, their normal, configured > Emacs is far too complex to be the basis of most bug reports. > We do not want to pick all of a user's extra customizations, if > we can help it. The customisations in your normal emacs have /nothing to do/ with the bug report. The bug report has a /self-contained/ recipe starting from emacs -Q, but for all one cares it might have been written on parchment and sent by pigeon. I don't know how you produce bug reports but for me the process is something like: * notice bug in my (customised) emacs * emacs -Q * try and reproduce bug * if successful go back to the normal emacs, hit report-emacs-bug * type the commands I used from emacs -Q to trigger the bug * send At no point do I try and send email from an emacs -Q instance. > I don't know where this mailer stuff is saved, but if it is > saved in the user's `custom-file' or init file then in order to > start from emacs -Q and get to a reasonable bug-report state > s?he needs to answer this mail nonsense EACH time. Yes, that's what -Q does, ignore /all/ user settings. How do you propose ignoring all but one user setting in a way that doesn't lead to more pain. > This is (should be considered) totally unacceptable. It works > against what _we_ want in terms of bug reporting. Not to > mention that it is simply not nice to users. > At the very least we should be able to get rid of the > backwardness: making users who will ultimately hit `n' for SMTP > configuration jump through lots of irrelevant obstacles. Ask > the SMTP question first, if you absolutely must ask it each > time, and then DTRT for a `n' response. This I agree with. If the option exists to send mail through emacs or not it should go something like: M-x report-emacs-bug RET Do you want to configure SMTP in Emacs? no Write bug report. Hit send. If mailclient-send-it is being used, you get to fill in the address (maybe) in your normal mail client. If you're passing off to a local sendmail (sendmail-send-it) you'll need to specify a valid address at this point. So effectively I feel there are two bug reports here: 1) Change order of questioning for one-time SMTP configuration to avoid pointless questions for people who don't want to send mail in Emacs. 2) Add a method of saving a user customisation that is picked up when running emacs -Q. The former seems like a sensible thing to do. I (FWIW) think the latter is a terrible idea. Lawrence -- Lawrence Mitchell From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 14 10:25:26 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2011 14:25:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhMqz-0005Tn-6V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:25:25 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhMqx-0005Ta-4y for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:25:23 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p6EEPEuE018510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:25:16 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6EEPB6n022034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Jul 2011 14:25:11 GMT Received: from abhmt116.oracle.com (abhmt116.oracle.com [141.146.116.68]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6EEP6ZE014739; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 09:25:06 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.37.192) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 07:25:05 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lawrence Mitchell'" , <9074@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com><19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org><0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com> <877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li> Subject: RE: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 07:25:03 -0700 Message-ID: <319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li> Thread-Index: AcxCAHLHc5b5YaZNS9+3l79MhOyIAQAL+2kg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4E1EFC4D.002B:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) > So effectively I feel there are two bug reports here: > > 1) Change order of questioning for one-time SMTP configuration to > avoid pointless questions for people who don't want to send mail > in Emacs. > > 2) Add a method of saving a user customisation that is picked up > when running emacs -Q. > > The former seems like a sensible thing to do. I (FWIW) think the > latter is a terrible idea. I did *not* propose your #2. I would not propose it. My preference would be to return to the bug-reporting behavior users had before - much less confusing and invasive. Emacs is for everyone, not just programmers and not just people familiar with SMTP or even with configuring a mail client for SMTP. When a user tries to submit a bug report, starting out by asking about SMTP configuration is not good UI for a program such as Emacs that is aimed at everyone. A user who has email already set up - which is probably 99.999% of computer and cell-phone users - should be able to send an Emacs bug report without any interaction with Emacs wrt mail setup. Just one opinion. We are complicating things unnecessarily - Occam's razor. Aside from sending a bug report, which should be for all users, including non-techie Emacs newbies, I don't care so much how complicated things get (I care, but not as much). But we should be making bug reporting simpler, not more scary, confusing, and difficult to use. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 22 11:05:53 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jul 2011 15:05:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QkHIW-00031h-SB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:05:53 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QkHIV-00031W-Nd for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:05:52 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p6MF5hja006342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <9074@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:05:45 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6MF5h9m016472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <9074@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:05:43 GMT Received: from abhmt116.oracle.com (abhmt116.oracle.com [141.146.116.68]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6MF5cah008670 for <9074@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:05:38 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.44.149) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 08:05:37 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: <9074@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com><19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org><0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com><877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li> <319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 08:05:38 -0700 Message-ID: <9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 Thread-Index: AcxCAHLHc5b5YaZNS9+3l79MhOyIAQAL+2kgAZPrWEA= X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4E2991C9.00B6:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > My preference would be to return to the bug-reporting > behavior users had before - much less confusing and invasive. > > Emacs is for everyone, not just programmers and not just > people familiar with SMTP or even with configuring a mail > client for SMTP. When a user tries to submit a bug report, > starting out by asking about SMTP configuration is not good > UI for a program such as Emacs that is aimed at everyone. > > A user who has email already set up - which is probably > 99.999% of computer and cell-phone users - should be able to > send an Emacs bug report without any interaction with Emacs > wrt mail setup. > > Just one opinion. We are complicating things unnecessarily - > Occam's razor. > > Aside from sending a bug report, which should be for all > users, including non-techie Emacs newbies, I don't care so > much how complicated things get (I care, but not as much). > > But we should be making bug reporting simpler, not more > scary, confusing, and difficult to use. What's happening with this bug? Time goes by, and still users are forced to jump through silly hoops just to report a bug from emacs -Q. This is not helpful to Emacs development, IMO. It discourages bug reporting, especially from newbies. It is annoying in general. And it is not necessary. This is a regression. We never had this nonsense before. Can we please restore the sane, simple, user-friendly approach we had before? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 00:06:36 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 04:06:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qo6FX-0000WU-KL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 00:06:35 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181] helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qo6FV-0000WM-Ln for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 00:06:34 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAI13N05FxKfe/2dsb2JhbABCp194gUABAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSHf8EMhkIEn0qEMQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,304,1309752000"; d="scan'208";a="128373988" Received: from 69-196-167-222.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home) ([69.196.167.222]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 02 Aug 2011 00:06:07 -0400 Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 38565660CF; Tue, 2 Aug 2011 00:06:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Message-ID: References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> <0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com> <877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li> <319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com> <9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 00:06:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: <9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 22 Jul 2011 08:05:38 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) > Time goes by, and still users are forced to jump through silly hoops just to > report a bug from emacs -Q. If it hurts, don't do that. I think it's really the only possible answer given that "emacs -Q" specifically means to ignore as much as possible user configurations. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 12:07:26 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 16:07:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoHV8-0002t2-1o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 12:07:26 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoHV6-0002sp-9S for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 12:07:24 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QoHUW-0004G2-VB; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 18:06:49 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again In-Reply-To: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:39:20 -0700") Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 17:44:15 +0200 Message-ID: References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Circlesquare's _Songs About Dancing And Drugs_: "Dancers" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QoHUW-0004G2-VB X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1312906009.14204@erKSBQPKKCR2pqY7Yu+DFg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > "Send this bug report to the Emacs maintainers (yes or no) " yes > > "Configure outgoing SMTP in Emacs (y or n) " n > > Args out of range: 102021, 102022 `(setq debug-on-error t)', repeat the bug and post the resulting backtrace. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 12:25:54 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 16:25:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoHn0-0004BL-8L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 12:25:54 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoHmy-0004BE-3j for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 12:25:53 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QoHmN-0004c9-S9; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 18:25:15 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again In-Reply-To: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:39:20 -0700") Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 18:24:49 +0200 Message-ID: References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Circlesquare's _Songs About Dancing And Drugs_: "All Live But The Ending" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QoHmN-0004c9-S9 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1312907116.01266@3PKLIYAyki9TZNp/NmTrOw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > If the user is going to answer `n' to the SMTP mail config question, > in order to just use an outsider mailer (e.g. Outlook), then there is no > reason for them to have to go through the silly dialog about "tickle me" > and be told they must edit the `From:' field in order to be able to > continue. I agree. If you're using the "system mailer" (i.e., sendmail or mailclient), it should be pretty irrelevant whether Emacs knows your real mail address. So I think this check should be moved to a later point -- after it has been decided to use the built-in SMTP support or using the system mailer. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 13:35:07 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 17:35:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoIrz-0005ox-1B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 13:35:07 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoIrx-0005op-45 for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 13:35:05 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p72HYXD7023102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 2 Aug 2011 17:34:35 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p72HYXBd026549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Aug 2011 17:34:33 GMT Received: from abhmt117.oracle.com (abhmt117.oracle.com [141.146.116.69]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p72HYRlg009992; Tue, 2 Aug 2011 12:34:27 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 10:34:27 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Stefan Monnier'" References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com><19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org><0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com><877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li><319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com><9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 10:34:26 -0700 Message-ID: <46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 Thread-Index: AcxQyYXHoT9x+6NMQ1u/GIi5zYa/gwAaca4A X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4E38352B.00A9:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > > Time goes by, and still users are forced to jump through > > silly hoops just to report a bug from emacs -Q. > > If it hurts, don't do that. I think it's really the only possible > answer given that "emacs -Q" specifically means to ignore as much as > possible user configurations. What are you talking about? Don't do what? I have no problem with the fact that emacs -Q means to ignore user configs. What are you talking about? The hoops I spoke of were to have to use a different (e.g. old) Emacs session to report a bug in the latest Emacs build. Why? Because the current builds do not work! They do not let you mail a bug report. Please read the bug thread. This is a regression. Emacs users should be able to _easily_ report a bug from emacs -Q. And on Windows, at least, their ordinary mail client (e.g. Outlook) should be invoked and the bug text made available on the clipboard, as previously. I cannot believe you would think this regression is somehow an improvement. I can only guess that you have not read the thread or do not understand the added obstacles to user reporting. Have you seen bug #9155? It shows that after I reported #9074 some changes were apparently made (perhaps to remedy some of the #9074 problems?) that broke things even more. Do you consider the behavior reported in #9155 an improvement? It is now impossible for me to send a bug report from recent Emacs 24 builds. I have submitted several reports since this was broken, but all have had to be from older Emacs builds (e.g. releases), even though they are reporting problems in the recent builds. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 13:45:29 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 17:45:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoJ20-000646-BB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 13:45:28 -0400 Received: from mail-ey0-f178.google.com ([209.85.215.178]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoJ1x-00063x-20 for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 13:45:26 -0400 Received: by eye4 with SMTP id 4so8051eye.23 for <9074@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 10:44:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=k0yD1W9qYzFRpwLNAYS2oWwfmONgI6+L48iSzUB/Yxw=; b=bfBq1SxZhCt2EWclNrneTYjsSx55kmRrwVme5m8ZiwMUODDJRqOQrmsJr98Z1ECT+Z f1at33bFpxcifxDRb4JLDSOVGnA9NH0336Mn0wgzaF/EuBTwD64TpTVFXy1P5K4r67Cm 666LaFvy71aaAnrbXr6hBTT9aVpfuEQiJZmDw= Received: by 10.213.22.68 with SMTP id m4mr2039634ebb.125.1312307095177; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 10:44:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.12.205 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Aug 2011 10:44:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com> References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> <0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com> <877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li> <319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com> <9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com> <46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com> From: Lennart Borgman Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 19:44:35 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again To: Drew Adams Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -3.6 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.6 (---) On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 19:34, Drew Adams wrote: > > Please read the bug thread. =C2=A0This is a regression. =C2=A0Emacs users= should be able > to _easily_ report a bug from emacs -Q. =C2=A0And on Windows, at least, t= heir > ordinary mail client (e.g. Outlook) should be invoked and the bug text ma= de > available on the clipboard, as previously. Why was this broken? We went through quite a lot of trouble to get this working once. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 14:02:38 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 18:02:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoJIc-0006Tv-AR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:02:38 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoJIY-0006Tf-RZ for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:02:37 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QoJHy-0006EH-Oj; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 20:01:58 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Lennart Borgman Subject: Re: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again In-Reply-To: (Lennart Borgman's message of "Tue, 2 Aug 2011 19:44:35 +0200") Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 20:00:44 +0200 Message-ID: References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> <0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com> <877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li> <319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com> <9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com> <46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEX+886ploH15cFMJSX+ 9dD+99PqiLrPAAACYUlEQVQ4jU2UQZbjIAxEZZrsLUjvgcT7xlwg8Yj9xA/uf5UpYSc9ZBGbjwoh laGUAukQESJLVqw8iOqDTmCrAoztiiW2NvoEGLG6YLp3EAV2AHN9QoceEl1vTVqjhU5wSD2cq70L 9ghDagqyOWs42HQFaFWOPYKx4nOYyiy1J4DeaAQwdr/leSo/AIyQA6Txe5acEfH87q/LAIH8TKas XHwpxfnc44IQLJ1WB6AjF4Xy6BCD1I0h5zHJSaOy9P17gMmRRuSA/CfOuffXMqQoTexjvncdT/bL eFBAN2hf+zF8cdz3XzDXE7yQxMILgGGaSn4HIMSX771icwDkdPmAJyL6yEpzyjX1j5aT6gbwXH76 tpxgL+kAMUD12v/eZa+kcd6JaFYpoAxOeN7iBS/SfEn3I13jc0rsDEriXKpYt/IFEXqOwMwupbSk EG+oVwyUIlHMZCLPaTMJHMddYYCgUiUI6jeGE7yRhRkSQXSW/uL7HrRHPtcW/4500dJHnWKnzS29 FRQ+wnBTiKyiye3M8dL3XJz2PJlRErs5vKb5KG9VMIqC3RP6aXDwP34tlwGYDMMocpRKvgqj7W1Y 6mvl/AbojUgbAM7NeqZhwC1rM/GsvprNqs1VN23YwEJPAIIZ7uWSaGM1HZLo2tpABnnBmurQoh0/ 7IPJCd5dMaP+XI2rH19NcGNZY1Rwt1ZOoG5wpsz2ltMX/mz/dWKElsWXY5/leh7nAD7o93wrdk9v Q/bzc9KLYWL5TB8uOW+AJm+g/8MM7/lTH5U6LTpAb2+gV8ax+SfkCHjY/wEQbqMB8FzbP9E9w4pU AFJJAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Throwing Muses's _Hunkpapa_: "Devil's Roof" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MailScanner-ID: 1QoJHy-0006EH-Oj X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1312912918.84781@5x80IVNdzI6pd8aIlGHILQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Lennart Borgman writes: >> Please read the bug thread. =A0This is a regression. =A0Emacs users >> should be able to _easily_ report a bug from emacs -Q. =A0And on >> Windows, at least, their ordinary mail client (e.g. Outlook) should >> be invoked and the bug text made available on the clipboard, as >> previously. > > Why was this broken? We went through quite a lot of trouble to get > this working once. Nothing has changed here, except that you're asked one y-or-n question. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 15:01:03 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 19:01:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoKD9-0000HU-6y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 15:01:03 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoKD5-0000H5-Vv for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 15:01:01 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet21.oracle.com (rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p72J0Nkv027393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 2 Aug 2011 19:00:26 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by rtcsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p72J0Kp4014634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Aug 2011 19:00:22 GMT Received: from abhmt106.oracle.com (abhmt106.oracle.com [141.146.116.58]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p72J0FJC013200; Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:00:15 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 12:00:15 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" , "'Lennart Borgman'" References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com><19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org><0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com><877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li><319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com><9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com><46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 12:00:14 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 Thread-Index: AcxRPk94TcvLo8/aT4OYYLTEyJcWxwAAvOUg X-Source-IP: rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4E38494B.00EA,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > Nothing has changed here, except that you're asked one y-or-n > question. Wrong. And see bug #9155. Honestly, characterizing this regression as simply asking one y-or-n question is completely . The user must edit the From field, errors are raised, etc. It is practically impossible to send a bug report from emacs -Q now. To be clear, here we go: I'll do it _again_ for you, from emacs -Q, with a Windows build from 2011-07-25: I type in a bug report and hit C-c C-c. 1. You have to answer this silly question: "Is `myuser@MYMACHINE.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me' really your email address? (yes or no)". If you are able to understand that (and why it is being asked), you will correctly answer "no". 2. "Please edit the From address and try again". And the window is scrolled all the way to the bottom, so you see only this now: ..."rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer button faces cus-face files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process multi-tty emacs)" Anyway, you make the guess that "try again" means to hit C-c C-c (?). You scroll up, find the From address, and edit it. Then you hit C-c C-c again. 3. "Send this bug report to the Emacs maintainers? (yes or no)" yes 4. "Configure outgoing SMTP in Emacs? (y or n) n (But why does the UI switch from yes/no to y/n? I already pointed this out...) 5. "Sending failed; no recipients" That, is spite of the fact that the To: field has bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. What happened? What do you do now? No pop up of email client, nada. And here's the complete text of *Messages* (again): For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. Checking for load-path shadows... Checking 1 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/site-lisp... Checking 499 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp... Checking 87 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/calc... Checking 57 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/calendar... Checking 148 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/emacs-lisp... Checking 48 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/emulation... Checking 68 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/erc... Checking 55 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/eshell... Checking 259 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/gnus... Checking 65 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/international... Checking 59 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/language... Checking 69 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/mail... Checking 48 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/mh-e... Checking 121 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/net... Checking 48 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/nxml... Checking 194 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/org... Checking 57 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/play... Checking 170 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/progmodes... Checking 88 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/textmodes... Checking 62 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/url... Checking 80 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/vc... Checking 65 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/obsolete... Checking 24 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/lisp/cedet... Checking 2 files in c:/Emacs-24-2011-07-25-lex/leim... Checking for load-path shadows...done call-interactively: Text is read-only [2 times] report-emacs-bug-hook: Please edit the From address and try again Sending... Sending via mail... Configure outgoing SMTP in Emacs? (y or n) y Setting `sendmail-query-once-function' temporarily since "emacs -q" would overwrite customizations smtpmail-send-it: Sending failed; no recipients Auto-saving... 6. Nothing was mailed. No mail client window popped up. Nothing happened. No feedback except incomprehensible messages, some of which are buried in *Messages* and were never displayed (noticeably). 7. What the <...> do you call this, if not a serious regression that hampers users from using Emacs and reporting problems? I cannot believe that this is not being taken seriously. Put yourself in the place of an Emacs newbie on Windows. Read the transcript above. Does it make you feel good about your "improvement" of the bug-reporting dialog? Stefan's only reply was "don't do it if it hurts"! Sheesh - don't report bugs? Why not replace the body of `report-emacs-bug' to just display a message: "Don't be stupid, Newbie; we don't want no stinkin bug reports". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 15:14:05 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 19:14:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoKPk-0000cT-N6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 15:14:05 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoKPh-0000bs-Vu for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 15:14:03 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QoKP6-0007Rb-DN; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 21:13:24 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 2 Aug 2011 12:00:14 -0700") Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 21:12:58 +0200 Message-ID: References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> <0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com> <877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li> <319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com> <9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com> <46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAGFBMVEXXvaQVChCXXVYNBAkI AQM/JivHdWjFk4D1JJcGAAACVUlEQVQ4jU2UMXPbMAyFeR7MmaH9AwJH1ExTbWdHzGWWFSary2up VVGu4t/vA6XYhu844PN7AGHQIpWYhyElOniO1qrGWoFkSjmlYcjxyS/hlNIiDeIaf1bgW6VEumzT GvPvVbD3J3sP0t8FnKvGuXuQJ+8b74/PvbYM5puiaSE4Hg8VFDRcFSY6CPzPj8MnW9WLIiZjkmbw /NF9MRimZACIyNAbF3nJ58MKEpkIQPGNmzrlundWRK5hbsB5/1BrgMQgMhjS/NS06Ov1XwhqUaAh Qyjz1PBFXj9bG6CY4UTVucJRavjXL1+s0C6MTKIcr8CuxZGPYdxUO9eg+C90q4S5bE0RxFpMvVLO /3g/tG4ZOwBU9chgH7pjUXC7EQVMusi5V6FT6uFxATOs6snEi5y6PfKqHKWrGEch0iinklqCf3Mp BwApxBTUHbgIOecCJCGhOcsjARBRjLLGClVWqcbhQAvFKstRGmxcpZVz1q5WSYxCwipvY3AQXGuk rSgAPQSHsCswpaOJgcByOP8NKImcN9yWEH1R6BUYkdHSDTjNmg5ASlkTg7m31rXOrQrCJWiqRwYO W7Djfl2xwu0myphIvwMoggJkRvBhOt3o66y4eB6Rn4h6ZdcKtgAxokomqnggjhEvHJWnxqAGwJdP PGJsCdULgFNVbtAy4PdBy8OEIvCctC6zvwGZ67DMCQcv3DcACr5dR+hbdwc2VXnLjPyd1biAk96V 2gxG3BsrIjePAC/hHChUPQOiM1FAdOsfxg5+BZxDhU8Ivb8GrJCgUARhdw/+A2/H8sQxxanWAAAA AElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Throwing Muses's _Dizzy_: "Mania (live)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QoKP6-0007Rb-DN X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1312917204.60679@4wggLmitsmYSqhDvhbeZBA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Lennart Borgman' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > The user must edit the From field, errors are raised, etc. It is > practically impossible to send a bug report from emacs -Q now. Nothing has changed in the From header generation as far as I know. > 4. "Configure outgoing SMTP in Emacs? (y or n) n > > (But why does the UI switch from yes/no to y/n? I already pointed this out...) It isn't really a yes-or-no kinda question. > 5. "Sending failed; no recipients" > > That, is spite of the fact that the To: field has bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. What > happened? What do you do now? > > No pop up of email client, nada. That sounds like a bug. What's your `sendmail-query-once-function' after saying "n"? > Configure outgoing SMTP in Emacs? (y or n) y > Setting `sendmail-query-once-function' temporarily since "emacs -q" would > overwrite customizations > smtpmail-send-it: Sending failed; no recipients Here is says that you typed "y", not "n" as you said earlier. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 16:18:24 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 20:18:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoLQ0-0003r6-Ai for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 16:18:24 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoLPy-0003qx-0o for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 16:18:23 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QoLPM-0000Nf-KN; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 22:17:44 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 2 Aug 2011 12:00:14 -0700") Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 22:16:50 +0200 Message-ID: References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> <0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com> <877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li> <319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com> <9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com> <46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAD1BMVEWOdWAOERATGRgXIB8o KiVK85IMAAACMUlEQVQ4jV2Ui5XjIAxFlawKWJEpIAgXECMKwEb917RPEE9mluPkGC76S6acmm+1 qkhp7j7MbBfJifbk55dZFWltgHizLLhFu/i54VqWzSaAVBU1wu7+hQ2AD6aDic10gWMDCBuD2PGM 5gXAXMq0UUql8qTt773VGmCXag0SDzOa6w9MLmChKhd3GCDiYWqN1GocjbRvvdMEBjcbFTt1unk0 6uTxcB2bQ9VZHpAohzPzAsNbgLwFkILzZZxCQQCfoHXYdu7ueIEkwqQAwzsOOneDQt4oJAgRmIdi XMBvgWLak31Wsz7eErWX6xBJh0vmcBwS1uMItkITAHbEna7bVj38MbYIAhkAKG892II1j9RAVX1L EIX/3DvzJHrp8pVyiIBcAH8N7zjgM6Lh3JF2m1ZeAP1dJKPDFwjbP0DrN4lCTSuv/imrdd5p3V82 sMZSxccKkKMAcz3eaj2AAtxf85wnmO8wXqqfkQcIHZdEJLGiH51ejO2QX6CgBNR4T/mx8rAAmlOe Rxe+knYBjIl0cbnZbxDzIy03Of4HUPWY8/IToMM0izZ0jdMHRLOQxMChVXL5gD0ieN5AFCP4BuHb HqOGDOeUyzfIKVlND1SaWSTBEgJSRQtJiuxNkJNq1qJRs9OPpDVUocq6EqGjhEOHSo4PQGcoCKKb 9wEQx1iR+NDsyDz3nPFNkYQnz/nRuTBR2wlXYTEkYBdOYbM536MX0aGISlF91Ypf3l5+8pyz7rW0 f+k6sWzaz/oAAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Ultra Vivid Scene's _Mercy Seat_ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QoLPM-0000Nf-KN X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1312921065.30032@pfc+2hWxiWdUFIwAdvb7pQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Lennart Borgman' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > 5. "Sending failed; no recipients" This has now been fixed. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 17:07:52 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 21:07:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoMBs-000530-62 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 17:07:52 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoMBq-00052u-RT for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 17:07:51 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet22.oracle.com (rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p72L7HDp007803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 2 Aug 2011 21:07:19 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by rtcsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p72L7GTg026377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Aug 2011 21:07:17 GMT Received: from abhmt102.oracle.com (abhmt102.oracle.com [141.146.116.54]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p72L7A51007094; Tue, 2 Aug 2011 16:07:11 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:07:10 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com><19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org><0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com><877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li><319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com><9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com><46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:07:11 -0700 Message-ID: <059E8C62D7164AD8A42B4A2C371650C0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 Thread-Index: AcxRSEof5FbinMMQRR2QLIHzEWLR8AADV22A X-Source-IP: rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4E386708.0001,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Lennart Borgman' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > > 5. "Sending failed; no recipients" > > > > That, is spite of the fact that the To: field has > > bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. What happened? What do you do now? > > No pop up of email client, nada. > > That sounds like a bug. What's your `sendmail-query-once-function' > after saying "n"? I just now repeated the recipe. You can do the same, BTW. sendmail-query-once-function is a variable defined in `sendmail.el'. Its value is mailclient-send-it > > Configure outgoing SMTP in Emacs? (y or n) y > > Setting `sendmail-query-once-function' temporarily since > > "emacs -q" would overwrite customizations > > smtpmail-send-it: Sending failed; no recipients > > Here is says that you typed "y", not "n" as you said earlier. I thought I typed `n'. Perhaps there is a different bug if you type `y'? Anyway, I just did it again, from emacs -Q. This time I saw again the "Args out of range: 105527, 105528" error. Here is the tail of *Messages*: report-emacs-bug-hook: Please edit the From address and try again Sending... Sending via mail... Configure outgoing SMTP in Emacs? (y or n) n Setting `sendmail-query-once-function' temporarily since "emacs -q" would overwrite customizations apply: Args out of range: 105527, 105528 3419 is `point-max' in buffer `*unsent mail to...', BTW. The original buffer, from which I invoked `report-emacs-bug', has length 105526. Also, BTW, this is the message ID: Message-ID: Who knows what kryr553sfkv.fsf is. MYMACHINE is my machine name. Are users required to set the mail-host-address also now? How many hoops will you force users to jump through, just to support your new "feature"? ---- But let me try once more, this time with debug-on-error = t. This is the backtrace when I hit `n' to the SMTP config question: Debugger entered--Lisp error: (args-out-of-range 105527 105528) #[binary gibberish... apply(#[(beg end delete) binary gibberish... #[binary gibberish... filter-buffer-substring(105528 105527) copy-region-as-kill(105528 105527) kill-ring-save(105528 105527) clipboard-kill-ring-save(105528 105527) mailclient-send-it() sendmail-query-once() message-send-mail(nil) message-send-via-mail(nil) message-send(nil) message-send-and-exit(nil) call-interactively(message-send-and-exit nil nil) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 17:19:01 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 21:19:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoMMe-0005JT-JX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 17:19:01 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoMMc-0005JL-4Y for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 17:18:59 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QoMM0-0001He-Ra; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 23:18:20 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again In-Reply-To: <059E8C62D7164AD8A42B4A2C371650C0@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:07:11 -0700") Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 23:17:46 +0200 Message-ID: References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> <0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com> <877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li> <319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com> <9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com> <46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com> <059E8C62D7164AD8A42B4A2C371650C0@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAGFBMVEVYNFmUjKrH2d+QWpuN Z52MdZ+BTZGrscfgqOqoAAACaUlEQVQ4jVXTQXeiMBAHcHxP2esmilxLtm2utYN4rYvgtRSCV1gl Xku2mq+/M0HdmgPh8eM/M/DAe/PnPPImdtZ/+u/et4VgomZig/5z8vM75BNMENjP0T10lBhbZh8u 0HRuq9sBenmBpvEalxjNjWzGxsoH6uHjxXcHb+2cS+0jPI9fELzhfoQjgTZGPngvd+Mea4S9g7v1 1r5TwnL57NVYqbmNO0DI5bkVjNmeMaYYCxBqbhMdGnleiDKWv5Zhf/gGOyHPK5EuBILdYOgKXIjz luARITNP4Om164EwX4ipAzkAJbT+QFgRREsuMvMI11KvwtzAKPOFkDn4g/Aq4Ap/Ey9FEEBQ/hYQ XwG8UiGkCcGHATAIPCDIVY6gj0JMMRkbueAmGHo4aIUocV8gGMMuYMQ0aY0suUxX/6HuaoIOwUjA xIrghM07KpXsjUxNNIUL9AhYSkKytwgSBggIamxuU4CQEgC8RzjxfphKOtgQhP3CiFPoAN8sQVRR KQJM0LjrPBRTgJ2kyrDtYy5OOxpXaQehZIah94CJHTWvBthZy3HbfkF4BzECDbdycKTmuQ5ZRQmm NhvYzgh+OPAVU+myCBSufD2DnXgaMQTtZ4Uq44yuq7qdwdpEF1AqSwkOlaq6GSx41CLUWuMnW0Gn lOcpNYDCHrrWmNgQ6AOezWBpejWb0lRYJQU8aCxVINg7oJEyl4hDqyqExs8UPgcC3pFmFUFRlQRr liY6K1gdA2TBPez3WXsDZtkhvYLedEUJCFiqQMhvkE+KegAobHCBvtQ6HxfTARIVBn5O/+eSlYnO Dw7iKkWY+9k/ERUHOqfWAEYAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Lush's _Scar_: "Scarlet" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QoMM0-0001He-Ra X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1312924701.12663@tnXAXIJbOC4bObblgp/btg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Lennart Borgman' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > I just now repeated the recipe. You can do the same, BTW. I can't. I don't have Windows. > I thought I typed `n'. Perhaps there is a different bug if you type `y'? Yes. Fixed now, though. > Who knows what kryr553sfkv.fsf is. MYMACHINE is my machine name. Are users > required to set the mail-host-address also now? How many hoops will you force > users to jump through, just to support your new "feature"? What are you on about? > But let me try once more, this time with debug-on-error = t. This is the > backtrace when I hit `n' to the SMTP config question: > > Debugger entered--Lisp error: (args-out-of-range 105527 105528) > #[binary gibberish... > apply(#[(beg end delete) binary gibberish... > #[binary gibberish... > filter-buffer-substring(105528 105527) > copy-region-as-kill(105528 105527) > kill-ring-save(105528 105527) > clipboard-kill-ring-save(105528 105527) > mailclient-send-it() > sendmail-query-once() Does mailclient work for you otherwise if not called from "emacs -Q"? If so, the fix I applied earlier today may fix this, too. If not, I have no idea what it could mean. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 17:40:52 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 21:40:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoMhn-0005o7-Dt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 17:40:51 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoMhk-0005nz-5w for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 17:40:49 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p72LeFxn010453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 2 Aug 2011 21:40:17 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p72LeEM7021669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 2 Aug 2011 21:40:15 GMT Received: from abhmt111.oracle.com (abhmt111.oracle.com [141.146.116.63]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p72Le94i028418; Tue, 2 Aug 2011 16:40:09 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:40:09 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com><19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org><0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com><877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li><319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com><9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com><46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com><059E8C62D7164AD8A42B4A2C371650C0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:40:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3F4300D071A74EB4AA103F2C062576A5@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 Thread-Index: AcxRWb4WlSqosUQTTt2DKCinzkLCNgAASbAA X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4E386EC1.0070:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Lennart Borgman' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > > I just now repeated the recipe. You can do the same, BTW. > > I can't. I don't have Windows. Then I guess you'll either have to take my word for it or the bug will have to remain open and the behavior broken until someone else on Windows can repeat the recipe. > > Who knows what kryr553sfkv.fsf is. MYMACHINE is my machine > > name. Are users required to set the mail-host-address also now? > What are you on about? Let me put it differently. Is it correct that the message ID have such a value? I don't know - just letting you know what it is. > > Debugger entered--Lisp error: (args-out-of-range 105527 105528) > > Does mailclient work for you otherwise if not called from "emacs -Q"? Yes. But I was asked again about SMTP, even though I had already answered `n' once before in a previous non-emacs -Q session. When I tried this with a previous build it did remember and didn't ask the question again thereafter. But now it asked me again. Perhaps I need to go through this with each new build? I see the value saved in my `custom-file', so I don't understand why I was asked. And doing it a second time, in a new session, I was not asked. ? > If so, the fix I applied earlier today may fix this, too. Let's hope so. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 02 18:12:18 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Aug 2011 22:12:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoNCE-0006V9-2Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 18:12:18 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoNCB-0006V1-7Y for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2011 18:12:16 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QoNBZ-00023k-Ne; Wed, 03 Aug 2011 00:11:37 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again In-Reply-To: <3F4300D071A74EB4AA103F2C062576A5@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:40:09 -0700") Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 00:11:01 +0200 Message-ID: References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> <0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com> <877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li> <319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com> <9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com> <46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com> <059E8C62D7164AD8A42B4A2C371650C0@us.oracle.com> <3F4300D071A74EB4AA103F2C062576A5@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAD1BMVEUxQ2EVGy1mk75FWnZO aojsC/mHAAACZElEQVQ4jWWTjbXrKAyEh58CkE0BNtcFQKAAbKv/mnZk571zd1fJiR19SEgjQO/9 rgGj3/w8BqDWjh5qdyLRXEbuQR+I+UeduPi67aeGcN8VSpO0R30tWa5UEV7w+Q1qXVXvF2j5C+Bc kqwKZd5cyvEHJHEhMQSDZCF46uk9ibh1TX0w1T1KKT9shBWNxESJQHFr/wILGbVXdCYZGFx3vanu S48ZELjVzf65lCGWkUxNHX0iAnf8VqS19xDRLQm7TCx8deusQAiYkiILjR6sWyS59QyBQriNNUU/ 1GM1sLrcEKdLbnJVzUMXi4ABh6hzlcllUzBWBEoAA8xMcFa2ngQrfCJIFhEm8zbHEDGwSIuBoDpO wUCg3yHbe/oCrpMT8RS+ZVB/IVxekBjeBBJXgCUMd+c5A1uQyCOCBM/RIsXSNJ4u0SQATeT4AEWv ch2Xn2ANsG4NsJVyFPuW4+5aa7VSxfGBYkZyldeO9qqH8ttUqRdXs4B/AwbUmug89L+g/GycC5// AzdBNBD/ZP+m0gl4A6sL16+AYxCYA8tG/bfx+L6xz5OCUKQTk4OA3aX1CM++0I0KnW5Dm941OSkl U80LLe9Ik2BX707Zwa4vnR9o46lU95P2IzNi53Ckw3kcheCD8YCTMTbaamDbc/XOp/PIOHGaglR+ wc/c81wkr/vtU+NcGw/pTBHX3dKZ04I9+cxTRBDLXLnvZEZeLt7TnGVhmvThhawoTiqPx7hxhWjA pUcR8KRzu0XLtvTwApMyw9kks2kbNpH8AuW0mrWqFt0JntusR6ze3OL9q7kz0PJ1TFz/AF+JjJXr YkI1AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Lush's _Mad Love_: "De-Luxe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QoNBZ-00023k-Ne X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1312927899.05814@J6VRefBgvY1cDjIYDksdAA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Lennart Borgman' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: >> > Who knows what kryr553sfkv.fsf is. MYMACHINE is my machine >> > name. Are users required to set the mail-host-address also now? >> What are you on about? > > Let me put it differently. Is it correct that the message ID have > such a value? I don't know - just letting you know what it is. I have made no change to the Message-ID code in a decade. > Yes. But I was asked again about SMTP, even though I had already answered `n' > once before in a previous non-emacs -Q session. > > When I tried this with a previous build it did remember and didn't ask > the question again thereafter. But now it asked me again. Perhaps I > need to go through this with each new build? I see the value saved in > my `custom-file', so I don't understand why I was asked. And doing it > a second time, in a new session, I was not asked. ? No, it should respect whatever `sendmail-query-once-function' is set to. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 04 10:04:24 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Aug 2011 14:04:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoyX9-0005n6-LH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:04:24 -0400 Received: from mail-pz0-f47.google.com ([209.85.210.47]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QoyX7-0005my-71 for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 10:04:22 -0400 Received: by pzk2 with SMTP id 2so1251070pzk.20 for <9074@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 07:03:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:x-draft-from:gcc:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent; bh=EmegB8VDW72k7FgosKBiPUOvnCmqZ+2Mm1wcCY9AOrc=; b=vzpNxRoanGPniFAMiyn+HVXwATO3UJxI9UWDm/wOjeEzTH28lk/4wt2thctf/cO4F8 mgWADGh7NqBLHaniaa9S+xxCkuc5EuY+aN5wohHlXphWHLWThA7n6J5kaeW3eVe7dToa X4jE23nQqt6pfdTyzIByjzHYUnC/33OP71sb4= Received: by 10.143.79.17 with SMTP id g17mr819760wfl.22.1312466620655; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 07:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.jasonrumney.net ([180.75.171.86]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d1sm2257150pbj.56.2011.08.04.07.03.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 04 Aug 2011 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wanchan (wanchan [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by home.jasonrumney.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 369EEC30; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 22:03:17 +0800 (MYT) From: Jason Rumney To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> <0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com> <877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li> <319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com> <9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com> <46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com> <059E8C62D7164AD8A42B4A2C371650C0@us.oracle.com> <3F4300D071A74EB4AA103F2C062576A5@us.oracle.com> X-Draft-From: ("Emacs.bugs" 54176) Gcc: nnimap+localhost:Sent Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 22:03:01 +0800 In-Reply-To: <3F4300D071A74EB4AA103F2C062576A5@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 2 Aug 2011 14:40:09 -0700") Message-ID: <87aabp1dgq.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Spam-Score: -3.6 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.6 (---) "Drew Adams" writes: > Let me put it differently. Is it correct that the message ID have > such a value? The Message-Id is irrelevant if you are using mailclient-send-it. It has this value for the same reason as the From field has a bogus value - because mail is not properly configured in this emacs session. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 04 11:39:44 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Aug 2011 15:39:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qp01Q-0000Qj-2n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 11:39:44 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qp01N-0000Qc-82 for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 11:39:41 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p74FcwEr031373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:39:00 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p74FcuvY029348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:38:57 GMT Received: from abhmt119.oracle.com (abhmt119.oracle.com [141.146.116.71]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p74FcoTK005604; Thu, 4 Aug 2011 10:38:51 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 04 Aug 2011 08:38:50 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Jason Rumney'" References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com><19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org><0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com><877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li><319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com><9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com><46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com><059E8C62D7164AD8A42B4A2C371650C0@us.oracle.com><3F4300D071A74EB4AA103F2C062576A5@us.oracle.com> <87aabp1dgq.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 08:38:50 -0700 Message-ID: <9C21B0A97EEE4584BC4D0E5E7D1ECB25@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87aabp1dgq.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: AcxSr1VBqmrP19i0SwaPd2+QjQg2WgADK+NA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.4E3ABD14.0093:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 9074@debbugs.gnu.org, 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > > Let me put it differently. Is it correct that the message ID have > > such a value? > > The Message-Id is irrelevant if you are using mailclient-send-it. It has > this value for the same reason as the From field has a bogus value - > because mail is not properly configured in this emacs session. OK, thanks. And I notice that if Emacs already knows that the current user is using `mailclient-send-it' (e.g. saved customization from answering `n' about SMTP config), then we do not show that field at all, which is good (helps avoid confusion). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 09 18:39:19 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2011 22:39:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QquxC-0005de-0L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 18:39:18 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qqux4-0005dR-Jr for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 18:39:11 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p79MbvtX016408 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 9 Aug 2011 22:37:59 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p79MbuZs012716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Aug 2011 22:37:57 GMT Received: from abhmt105.oracle.com (abhmt105.oracle.com [141.146.116.57]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p79MbpbY027520; Tue, 9 Aug 2011 17:37:51 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.42.25) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 15:37:50 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: <9074@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com><19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org><0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com><877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li><319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com><9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com><46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com><059E8C62D7164AD8A42B4A2C371650C0@us.oracle.com><3F4300D071A74EB4AA103F2C062576A5@us.oracle.com><87aabp1dgq.fsf@gnu.org> <9C21B0A97EEE4584BC4D0E5E7D1ECB25@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 15:37:51 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <9C21B0A97EEE4584BC4D0E5E7D1ECB25@us.oracle.com> Thread-Index: AcxSr1VBqmrP19i0SwaPd2+QjQg2WgADK+NAAQnbdkA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4E41B6C7.003D:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) Can you please fix this bug once and for all? It's been a month now... Users with `emacs -Q' should not need to edit the `From' field if they are going to use mailclient anyway. This was a silly, misguided, and retrograde change to Emacs. It should be reverted as soon as possible. It just acts as one more confusing obstacle, especially for newbies. As in the past, users should simply be asked whether they want to send the message - nothing more. If you want to encourage users to configure mail for SMTP or anything else, that should be outside the context of a bug report. That is, unless configuration is absolutely necessary before the message can be sent. But that should be determined only after an attempt is made to send the message. And mailclient should be the default, in any case. If you want to push Emacs users to also use Gnus or a particular mail client/method, please do it outside of Emacs bug reporting. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 22 11:42:07 2011 Received: (at 9074) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2011 15:42:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QvWda-0001Ge-RR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:42:07 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QvWdY-0001GX-F8 for 9074@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:42:05 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet22.oracle.com (rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p7MFddwT026147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:39:41 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by rtcsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p7MFdbYK000351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:39:38 GMT Received: from abhmt115.oracle.com (abhmt115.oracle.com [141.146.116.67]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p7MFdWN2011122; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 10:39:32 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:39:31 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: <9074@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com><19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org><0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com><877h7lz2n2.fsf@gmx.li><319A1AE11254433E913464E53A257FD4@us.oracle.com><9707E51C3F48486F8F5546673697E43C@us.oracle.com><46232DA8B2B14A4DA18949CDFE99F65A@us.oracle.com><059E8C62D7164AD8A42B4A2C371650C0@us.oracle.com><3F4300D071A74EB4AA103F2C062576A5@us.oracle.com><87aabp1dgq.fsf@gnu.org><9C21B0A97EEE4584BC4D0E5E7D1ECB25@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:39:32 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcxSr1VBqmrP19i0SwaPd2+QjQg2WgADK+NAAQnbdkACf4u3oA== In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090206.4E52783D.005A,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074 Cc: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen' X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) ping > Can you please fix this bug once and for all? It's been a > month now... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 26 15:07:57 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2011 19:07:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RJ8pR-0003Fn-30 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 15:07:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10] ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RJ8pM-0003FZ-O1 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 15:07:55 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RJ8ng-0000W4-Cc for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 15:06:08 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 15:06:08 -0400 Message-Id: Subject: control message for bug 9074 To: X-Mailer: mail (GNU Mailutils 2.1) From: Glenn Morris X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) merge 9877 9074 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 10 14:27:39 2012 Received: (at 9074-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Feb 2012 19:27:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35245 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rvw8A-00031s-7C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:27:38 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:56226 ident=Debian-exim) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Rvw87-00031k-5s for 9074-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:27:36 -0500 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rvw6t-0006Al-SY; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:26:19 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: 9074-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: `report-emacs-bug' prompting rework References: <87vcney2in.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spook: data haven Israel clones ARPA Saudi Arabia Vickie Weaver X-Ran: xJ#0ufJ_Hu*8Y#O8wZF}+im{`|/UsiZleN3H2qZ7a&IX5aEBv7>GpO(gzYHaULr&`tzMU9 X-Hue: white X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:26:19 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87vcney2in.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 10 Feb 2012 19:19:44 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 9074-done X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) Version: 24.0.94 Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > As previously discussed (like, a year ago), the prompting sequence when > sending bug reports, especially from "emacs -Q", was kinda > unsatisfactory. (The main point was that it required that you had a > valid-ish From header, even though you might end up sending the message > through mailclient.el, which will then just rewrite your From header, > anyway.) > > Fixing this required a bit of refactoring of the sendmail.el/Message > setup functions, but hopefully I didn't screw up anything too badly. > > And the prompting sequence looks OK to me now, but please let me know if > anything is wonky. From unknown Thu Aug 14 17:24:19 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator