From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 20 11:24:51 2011 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jun 2011 15:24:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QYgLL-0004bK-1m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:24:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QYgLI-0004b3-MY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:24:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QYgLC-0004rK-IF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:24:43 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:32978) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QYgLC-0004rG-AF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:24:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39560) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QYgLB-0007p0-7C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:24:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QYgL9-0004qi-Pr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:24:40 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:33621) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QYgL9-0004qW-FD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:24:39 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id p5KFOaXP026738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:24:37 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p5KFOZe3005319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:24:35 GMT Received: from abhmt008.oracle.com (abhmt008.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p5KFOUKW020668 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 10:24:30 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:24:29 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:24:29 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcwvXiXpj+nW32dTRbuK8ACWQ9Z/WQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4DFF6636.0018:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) Some particular coding systems are mentioned in the Emacs manual, presumably because they are important or instructive. Please consider adding these terms to the manual's index. `no-conversion', `raw-text', `emacs-internal', `iso-latin-1-unix', `iso-latin-1-dos', `iso-latin-1-mac', `undecided-unix', `undecided-dos', `undecided-mac'. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2011-06-13 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.5) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/build/include' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 01 10:29:01 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2011 14:29:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QceiL-0004nH-08 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 10:29:01 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QceiJ-0004mo-In for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 10:29:00 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qcei4-00020c-Rd; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 16:28:44 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:24:29 -0700") Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 16:28:28 +0200 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAFVBMVEUGBAlWUlcTERULCQ3O zM4JBwwMCg63evNnAAACUklEQVQ4jWVTy5LjIAzk4g+A0foO4+W8GwruuKicXUOR8w4k+v9P2Jad ZF7Ko7BaQq2WrC7edbebdVYb9zA1VebufhirqdXAOP3uzj/dnlm1FhLjdOOOzyN+B+qlI2K3+52+ A4i1Xdzl7n8A7J1KgfsQ77fqKgTmFmBUYFlu6Q/gNi6cGACVzMLhDgzQgh0ZzP4BpDujB3DnoOQ0 0peMvcoHsDwzdoqKxxBOMQz+sL4XD7EKICx4PBEl/thC3DX7ML9nwBk4fgH6AeCPR3jPn+qAVQg1 QpdwMtpz+gQcFUcyWZdD/wBlVYIbCT7Zkp1Fys5egJBGrS2cREJ376olAWqLrSa7kC5a21cBsAbC qoHulchbS2aZwTKGBqBJApGeeclLpsUckaq2GuPfoss522IsdByCVAWV6kmXlUxZl3O3M2WRoolW bzrnfC3lXHKn90y/mgBYxLfsZEo0U3GELo1orWI8WQp2zXY5a+tdMcXQS0iocSXNOiPljDYMhuit GVWxLkSzuHGRJq9JuxNS1LA4rstKblkRrzWUWfTtgvVZsAYHKw1RikY7BjVS6FcEGSrkjO9mQRK/ xoQtSd1TZtJXwJ7B12ILksJqYNlWvualGJ3l6zEFFkk4vRu9t6jhn92+MQrS1hqkddyh8drOxyqp XePAdqW8vFj7UvcxHMAmB9d1mUmLsHHD9FTdmpomPL5lysY12coJs1WisFIb3nd30mYvqPCLqm3q YZv7J2Gb2kcbtyfS/iAMT5NsPwD13VptaajwA5gwVr6pnwn/BNv+Ay1JBWSyCtYgAAAAAElFTkSu QmCC X-Now-Playing: Various's _The Wire Tapper 23_: "Julia Wolfe - LAD: Part 2 (edit)" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110701:drew.adams@oracle.com::wg57aE0Ur0IQrMGh:00000000000000000000000000000000000000007Iqq X-Hashcash: 1:23:110701:8900@debbugs.gnu.org::9sMdJhcG7TAKDwiV:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000JiLG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qcei4-00020c-Rd X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310135325.16967@4FHWthouZYWz3NQHVqVJpA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) "Drew Adams" writes: > Some particular coding systems are mentioned in the Emacs manual, > presumably because they are important or instructive. Please > consider adding these terms to the manual's index. > > `no-conversion', `raw-text', `emacs-internal', > `iso-latin-1-unix', `iso-latin-1-dos', `iso-latin-1-mac', > `undecided-unix', `undecided-dos', `undecided-mac'. Some of these were already in the index, but I've added the remaining ones now. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 01 10:28:49 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2011 14:28:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qcei9-0004md-72 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 10:28:49 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qcei7-0004mP-54 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 10:28:48 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qcehv-000208-I2 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 16:28:35 +0200 Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 16:28:33 +0200 Message-Id: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #8900 X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qcehv-000208-I2 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310135315.84861@iit+yhMJUCTKN7EViVQexg X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) tags 8900 fixed close 8900 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 01 11:00:32 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2011 15:00:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QcfCq-0007By-CF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:00:32 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QcfCn-0007Bm-Tq for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:00:30 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id p61F0Lxj018488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Jul 2011 15:00:23 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p61F0KD2029025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 1 Jul 2011 15:00:21 GMT Received: from abhmt102.oracle.com (abhmt102.oracle.com [141.146.116.54]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p61F0FRW030068; Fri, 1 Jul 2011 10:00:15 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.59.183) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 08:00:14 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" References: Subject: RE: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:00:09 -0700 Message-ID: <246694EE605F4CE391A4FB9416853D98@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 Thread-Index: Acw3+1wxSi5DqimsSLSJRTGbGnsRLwAA0dvA X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4E0DE107.0118:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) > > Some particular coding systems are mentioned in the Emacs manual, > > presumably because they are important or instructive. Please > > consider adding these terms to the manual's index. > > > > `no-conversion', `raw-text', `emacs-internal', > > `iso-latin-1-unix', `iso-latin-1-dos', `iso-latin-1-mac', > > `undecided-unix', `undecided-dos', `undecided-mac'. > > Some of these were already in the index, I don't see any of them. `i' followed by a prefix of any of those names shows [No match], in the latest Windows build at least: In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2011-06-27 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.5) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/build/include' And searching each of the indexes for each of those terms, I find none of them. Maybe you were thinking of the `undecided, coding system' entry in the Concept Index? That's close, but it is not any of those I mentioned. > but I've added the remaining ones now. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 01 11:40:00 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2011 15:40:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qcfp1-00084X-QR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:40:00 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qcfoz-00084K-Fa for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:39:58 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qcfon-0004DI-NZ; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 17:39:45 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual In-Reply-To: <246694EE605F4CE391A4FB9416853D98@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:00:09 -0700") Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 17:39:30 +0200 Message-ID: References: <246694EE605F4CE391A4FB9416853D98@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAFVBMVEUGBAlWUlcTERULCQ3O zM4JBwwMCg63evNnAAACUklEQVQ4jWVTy5LjIAzk4g+A0foO4+W8GwruuKicXUOR8w4k+v9P2Jad ZF7Ko7BaQq2WrC7edbebdVYb9zA1VebufhirqdXAOP3uzj/dnlm1FhLjdOOOzyN+B+qlI2K3+52+ A4i1Xdzl7n8A7J1KgfsQ77fqKgTmFmBUYFlu6Q/gNi6cGACVzMLhDgzQgh0ZzP4BpDujB3DnoOQ0 0peMvcoHsDwzdoqKxxBOMQz+sL4XD7EKICx4PBEl/thC3DX7ML9nwBk4fgH6AeCPR3jPn+qAVQg1 QpdwMtpz+gQcFUcyWZdD/wBlVYIbCT7Zkp1Fys5egJBGrS2cREJ376olAWqLrSa7kC5a21cBsAbC qoHulchbS2aZwTKGBqBJApGeeclLpsUckaq2GuPfoss522IsdByCVAWV6kmXlUxZl3O3M2WRoolW bzrnfC3lXHKn90y/mgBYxLfsZEo0U3GELo1orWI8WQp2zXY5a+tdMcXQS0iocSXNOiPljDYMhuit GVWxLkSzuHGRJq9JuxNS1LA4rstKblkRrzWUWfTtgvVZsAYHKw1RikY7BjVS6FcEGSrkjO9mQRK/ xoQtSd1TZtJXwJ7B12ILksJqYNlWvualGJ3l6zEFFkk4vRu9t6jhn92+MQrS1hqkddyh8drOxyqp XePAdqW8vFj7UvcxHMAmB9d1mUmLsHHD9FTdmpomPL5lysY12coJs1WisFIb3nd30mYvqPCLqm3q YZv7J2Gb2kcbtyfS/iAMT5NsPwD13VptaajwA5gwVr6pnwn/BNv+Ay1JBWSyCtYgAAAAAElFTkSu QmCC X-Now-Playing: Various's _The Wire Tapper 23_: "Aaron Martin - Water Tongue" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110701:drew.adams@oracle.com::q/6qYzmppyNznEmH:00000000000000000000000000000000000000004/nK X-Hashcash: 1:23:110701:8900@debbugs.gnu.org::9h23GZ4mYXGeH4D4:000000000000000000000000000000000000000006ZK6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qcfon-0004DI-NZ X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310139585.89766@GzST0Rlk3JiXDc2IiOazDA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) "Drew Adams" writes: >> > `no-conversion', `raw-text', `emacs-internal', >> > `iso-latin-1-unix', `iso-latin-1-dos', `iso-latin-1-mac', >> > `undecided-unix', `undecided-dos', `undecided-mac'. >> >> Some of these were already in the index, > > I don't see any of them. `i' followed by a prefix of any of those > names shows [No match], in the latest Windows build at least: [...] > Maybe you were thinking of the `undecided, coding system' entry in the > Concept Index? That's close, but it is not any of those I mentioned. Yes, that's the one I meant. And instead of adding all the `iso-latin-1-*' variations, I just added "`iso-latin-1', coding system". I think that should be sufficient for people who want to find these things in the index. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 01 11:55:06 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2011 15:55:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qcg3e-0008Oq-EE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:55:06 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qcg3c-0008ON-CI for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:55:05 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id p61FsuM7019345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Jul 2011 15:54:57 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p61FstJ2000388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 1 Jul 2011 15:54:55 GMT Received: from abhmt109.oracle.com (abhmt109.oracle.com [141.146.116.61]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p61Fsn2n008272; Fri, 1 Jul 2011 10:54:49 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.59.183) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 08:54:49 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" References: <246694EE605F4CE391A4FB9416853D98@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:54:44 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 Thread-Index: Acw4BSQvG5usM1PrTgWBph1UxNrmVgAAJwaw X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4E0DEDD2.0046:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) > > Maybe you were thinking of the `undecided, coding system' > > entry in the Concept Index? That's close, but it is not > > any of those I mentioned. > > Yes, that's the one I meant. And instead of adding all the > `iso-latin-1-*' variations, I just added "`iso-latin-1', > coding system". > > I think that should be sufficient for people who want to find these > things in the index. I disagree. These are real, implementation, user-visible, runtime names. This is just like indexing command names or variable names or package names. The exact name should appear in the index. Consider, for instance, the use case that brought this to my attention: I have updated various Emacs `describe-...' commands so that a link to their coverage in the manuals is added to the *Help* buffer. This is based on finding the term in question in the manual's index. The match naturally should be an exact match against index entries. See http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2011-06/msg00368.html. With a proper fix to this bug as I requested, these particular, literal names would appear in the index, and I could then add `describe-coding-system' to my updates. A user looking at the output of `describe-coding-system' for one of these coding systems could click the link to get to its doc in the manual. This is what I have in my TODO list: ;; ADD THIS ONE to help-fns+.el ONLY IF BUG #8900 is fixed. ;; REPLACE ORIGINAL in `mule-diag.el' ;; ;; Call `Info-make-manuals-xref' to create a cross-ref link to manuals. ;; ;;;###autoload (when (> emacs-major-version 23); Before Emacs 24 no coding systems are indexed. (defun describe-coding-system (coding-system) "Display information about CODING-SYSTEM." (interactive "zDescribe coding system (default current choices): ") (require 'mule-diag) (if (null coding-system) (describe-current-coding-system) (help-setup-xref (list #'describe-coding-system coding-system) (called-interactively-p 'interactive)) (with-output-to-temp-buffer (help-buffer) (print-coding-system-briefly coding-system 'doc-string) (let ((type (coding-system-type coding-system)) ;; Fixme: use this (extra-spec (coding-system-plist coding-system))) (princ "Type: ") (princ type) (cond ((eq type 'undecided) (princ " (do automatic conversion)")) ((eq type 'utf-8) (princ " (UTF-8: Emacs internal multibyte form)")) ((eq type 'utf-16) ;; (princ " (UTF-16)") ) ((eq type 'shift-jis) (princ " (Shift-JIS, MS-KANJI)")) ((eq type 'iso-2022) (princ " (variant of ISO-2022)\n") (princ "Initial designations:\n") (print-designation (coding-system-get coding-system :designation)) (when (coding-system-get coding-system :flags) (princ "Other specifications: \n ") (apply #'print-list (coding-system-get coding-system :flags)))) ((eq type 'charset) (princ " (charset)")) ((eq type 'ccl) (princ " (do conversion by CCL program)")) ((eq type 'raw-text) (princ " (text with random binary characters)")) ((eq type 'emacs-mule) (princ " (Emacs 21 internal encoding)")) ((eq type 'big5)) (t (princ ": invalid coding-system."))) (princ "\nEOL type: ") (let ((eol-type (coding-system-eol-type coding-system))) (cond ((vectorp eol-type) (princ "Automatic selection from:\n\t") (princ eol-type) (princ "\n")) ((or (null eol-type) (eq eol-type 0)) (princ "LF\n")) ((eq eol-type 1) (princ "CRLF\n")) ((eq eol-type 2) (princ "CR\n")) (t (princ "invalid\n"))))) (let ((postread (coding-system-get coding-system :post-read-conversion))) (when postread (princ "After decoding text normally,") (princ " perform post-conversion using the function: ") (princ "\n ") (princ postread) (princ "\n"))) (let ((prewrite (coding-system-get coding-system :pre-write-conversion))) (when prewrite (princ "Before encoding text normally,") (princ " perform pre-conversion using the function: ") (princ "\n ") (princ prewrite) (princ "\n"))) (with-current-buffer standard-output (let ((charsets (coding-system-charset-list coding-system))) (when (and (not (eq (coding-system-base coding-system) 'raw-text)) charsets) (cond ((eq charsets 'iso-2022) (insert "This coding system can encode all ISO 2022 charsets.")) ((eq charsets 'emacs-mule) (insert "This coding system can encode all emacs-mule charsets.""")) (t (insert "This coding system encodes the following charsets:\n ") (while charsets (insert " " (symbol-name (car charsets))) (search-backward (symbol-name (car charsets))) (help-xref-button 0 'help-character-set (car charsets)) (goto-char (point-max)) (setq charsets (cdr charsets))))))) (when (boundp 'Info-virtual-files) ; Emacs 23.2+ (Info-make-manuals-xref coding-system))))))) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 01 13:45:46 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2011 17:45:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qchmj-0003ID-Tc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 13:45:46 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qchmh-0003Hw-26 for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 13:45:44 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LNO004000PT1F00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 20:45:11 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.8.216]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LNO002ZR1B4OU21@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 20:45:11 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 20:45:08 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Message-id: <83r569rj2z.fsf@gnu.org> References: X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen > Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 16:28:28 +0200 > Cc: 8900@debbugs.gnu.org > > "Drew Adams" writes: > > > Some particular coding systems are mentioned in the Emacs manual, > > presumably because they are important or instructive. Please > > consider adding these terms to the manual's index. > > > > `no-conversion', `raw-text', `emacs-internal', > > `iso-latin-1-unix', `iso-latin-1-dos', `iso-latin-1-mac', > > `undecided-unix', `undecided-dos', `undecided-mac'. > > Some of these were already in the index, but I've added the remaining > ones now. FWIW, I think you put the additional index entries in wrong places. The index entry should be near the text that describes the concept or the symbol, not merely mentions it. For example, this: +@cindex @code{iso-latin-1}, coding system These variant coding systems are omitted from the @code{list-coding-systems} display for brevity, since they are entirely predictable. For example, the coding system @code{iso-latin-1} has is wrong, because the text does not describe the iso-latin-1 encoding in any way. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 01 13:52:53 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2011 17:52:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qchtc-0003TN-NO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 13:52:53 -0400 Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qchta-0003T7-WF for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 13:52:52 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LNO005000XYD000@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 20:52:44 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.8.216]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LNO005L31NUDQ00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 20:52:44 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 20:52:46 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83pqltriq9.fsf@gnu.org> References: <246694EE605F4CE391A4FB9416853D98@us.oracle.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:54:44 -0700 > Cc: 8900@debbugs.gnu.org > > > I think that should be sufficient for people who want to find these > > things in the index. > > I disagree. These are real, implementation, user-visible, runtime names. This > is just like indexing command names or variable names or package names. The > exact name should appear in the index. Not true, at least not until we have a detailed documentation of each encoding there. The absolute majority of coding-systems is not documented in the manual, so there's no real place to put the index entries. I'm not sure there's something intelligent to tell about these encodings in the manual, either. > Consider, for instance, the use case that brought this to my attention: You cannot assume that every symbol appears in the manual. So this feature can never work reliably, only ad-hoc. You should be prepared for the situation where the manual doesn't have this in its index, and handle that gracefully. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 01 14:17:43 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2011 18:17:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QciHf-0004pk-HL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 14:17:43 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QciHd-0004pX-QR for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 14:17:42 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id p61IHXMA014844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Jul 2011 18:17:35 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p61IHWDE018338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 1 Jul 2011 18:17:33 GMT Received: from abhmt117.oracle.com (abhmt117.oracle.com [141.146.116.69]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p61IHQAH013808; Fri, 1 Jul 2011 13:17:27 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.59.183) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 11:17:26 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" References: <246694EE605F4CE391A4FB9416853D98@us.oracle.com> <83pqltriq9.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 11:17:23 -0700 Message-ID: <9BB5F2A7090B4F2585512C563D1717B3@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <83pqltriq9.fsf@gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 Thread-Index: Acw4F7Pemtz/tTSXRbKtI/gFQC3lwwAACjMQ X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4E0E0F3F.0202:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) > > I disagree. These are real, implementation, user-visible, > > runtime names. This is just like indexing command names > > or variable names or package names. The exact name should > > appear in the index. > > Not true, at least not until we have a detailed documentation of each > encoding there. The absolute majority of coding-systems is not > documented in the manual, so there's no real place to put the index > entries. I'm not sure there's something intelligent to tell about > these encodings in the manual, either. Doesn't matter that we don't have detailed doc about these. Certainly doesn't matter that we don't have detailed doc about *each* coding system. The fact is that the manual provides some information about these particular coding systems. They should be indexed so users can easily find that information. An index does not refer only to "detailed documentation" about terms. It refers to terms that we think a user is likely to look for in the book. It is often the case that a term is indexed that is only mentioned in the book. What is important is whether a user might want to look it up, not how much the book goes into detail about it. The book might even state in some context "this book does not cover XYZ", and `XYZ' might still be appropriate as an index entry - precisely to get you to that information, however negative and incomplete. > > Consider, for instance, the use case that brought this to > > my attention: > > You cannot assume that every symbol appears in the manual. What makes you think I make such an assumption? Far from it. You have knee-jerk repeated that several times over the past - it seems to be your mantra whenever indexing comes up. Just a straw man - no one here is assuming any such thing. Certainly it is _not_ the case that every symbol _should_ appear in the manual. Far from it. The vast majority of symbols should _not_. In any case, this is not about whether some given term should appear in the manual. This is about whether some particular terms that _do_ appear in the manual should be indexed. > So this feature can never work reliably, only ad-hoc. Wrong. "This feature" is to provide a link in *Help* (in this case, for `describe-coding-system XYZ') to search the manuals for a corresponding index entry. That works 100% reliably. "This feature" also includes an option for those who prefer that a link to search the manuals not be added unless there are in fact index entries for the subject term in the manuals to be searched. And that option also lets users choose which manuals are to be searched. But regardless of the option value, clicking the `manuals' link will always correctly search the specified manuals and produce a virtual index if the subject term is found. 100% reliable. > You should be prepared for the situation where the manual > doesn't have this in its index, and handle that gracefully. See above. And see the emacs-devel thread where the feature was described. Or see the source code that implements it - either the submitted patch or the cited library, help-fns+.el. And independently of this feature, a user can _already_ create a virtual index (which is what this feature creates automatically when you click the `manuals' link). Doing that should find a particular coding system that is discussed in the manual. If the manual had nothing to say about these coding systems then they would not be there and would not be indexed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 01 15:49:18 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2011 19:49:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QcjiH-0007i8-Hc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 15:49:17 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QcjiF-0007hv-9w for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 15:49:16 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LNO004006S2WB00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 22:49:09 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.8.216]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LNO004KU71VEBM0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 22:49:09 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 22:49:11 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual In-reply-to: <9BB5F2A7090B4F2585512C563D1717B3@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83liwhrdc8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <246694EE605F4CE391A4FB9416853D98@us.oracle.com> <83pqltriq9.fsf@gnu.org> <9BB5F2A7090B4F2585512C563D1717B3@us.oracle.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: , <8900@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 11:17:23 -0700 > > > > I disagree. These are real, implementation, user-visible, > > > runtime names. This is just like indexing command names > > > or variable names or package names. The exact name should > > > appear in the index. > > > > Not true, at least not until we have a detailed documentation of each > > encoding there. The absolute majority of coding-systems is not > > documented in the manual, so there's no real place to put the index > > entries. I'm not sure there's something intelligent to tell about > > these encodings in the manual, either. > > Doesn't matter that we don't have detailed doc about these. Certainly doesn't > matter that we don't have detailed doc about *each* coding system. Well, in that case, we will have to disagree. Having index entries about something that isn't described is a Bad Thing. > The fact is that the manual provides some information about these particular > coding systems. They should be indexed so users can easily find that > information. But there's no information to find. > An index does not refer only to "detailed documentation" about terms. It refers > to terms that we think a user is likely to look for in the book. It is often > the case that a term is indexed that is only mentioned in the book. Not in my book. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 01 15:46:16 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2011 19:46:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QcjfL-0007d5-Rf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 15:46:16 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QcjfJ-0007cf-89 for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 15:46:14 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LNO004006PVZZ00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 22:46:07 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.8.216]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LNO004LS6WU8GU0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 22:46:07 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 22:46:09 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual In-reply-to: <83r569rj2z.fsf@gnu.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Eli Zaretskii Message-id: <83mxgxrdha.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83r569rj2z.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 20:45:08 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: 8900@debbugs.gnu.org > > FWIW, I think you put the additional index entries in wrong places. > The index entry should be near the text that describes the concept or > the symbol, not merely mentions it. > > For example, this: > > +@cindex @code{iso-latin-1}, coding system > These variant coding systems are omitted from the > @code{list-coding-systems} display for brevity, since they are entirely > predictable. For example, the coding system @code{iso-latin-1} has > > is wrong, because the text does not describe the iso-latin-1 encoding > in any way. I fixed that now. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 01 17:00:23 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2011 21:00:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qckp4-0003g1-UZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 17:00:23 -0400 Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qckp1-0003fm-Ba for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 17:00:20 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id p61L0BXZ007957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Jul 2011 21:00:13 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p61L0AG0027606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 1 Jul 2011 21:00:11 GMT Received: from abhmt113.oracle.com (abhmt113.oracle.com [141.146.116.65]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p61L05fd017894; Fri, 1 Jul 2011 16:00:05 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.59.183) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 14:00:04 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" References: <246694EE605F4CE391A4FB9416853D98@us.oracle.com> <83pqltriq9.fsf@gnu.org> <9BB5F2A7090B4F2585512C563D1717B3@us.oracle.com> <83liwhrdc8.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 14:00:01 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <83liwhrdc8.fsf@gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 Thread-Index: Acw4J/aoIORbtLBZQNy85RGA5+v2sQAA72pQ X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4E0E355D.00CD:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) > > Doesn't matter that we don't have detailed doc about these. > > Certainly doesn't matter that we don't have detailed doc > > about *each* coding system. > > Well, in that case, we will have to disagree. You need detailed doc about *each* coding system before you will index *any* of them? With that logic we should remove all entries from our `Variable', `Command', and `Key' indexes, since we certainly do not provide documentation - let alone "detailed documentation" - about all of them. > Having index entries about something that isn't described > is a Bad Thing. "Described" is vague here, so it's hard to judge. But you clarified earlier that only "detailed documentation" counts for you. We have similar index entries in the manuals. Looking only at the first few entries of the `Variable' index, check `blink-cursor-alist' and `auto-coding-*', for instance. There is no "detailed documentation" describing these variables. There is only a general, cursory mention of what they are for. And these are not outliers/alone in this respect. That is not a bug. We still want to index these variables, IMO. Not because we necessarily provide their "detailed documentation" in this manual (we do _not_), but because: a. we say something about them that could be useful to a user (otherwise we wouldn't mention them!), and b. we think a user might want to look them up. Those, not simply the degree of detail provided, are proper, user-oriented criteria for indexing. (Of course, if such a variable also had a more complete, detailed documentation elsewhere in the manual, then that location would likely be indexed - either in addition to or instead of the current location, depending on the context and the specific content.) I think those two criteria apply to the coding-system entries I submitted this bug about. You can disagree about that. But I would hope that you would agree about such criteria, whether or not you agree that they are satisfied in these particular cases. > > The fact is that the manual provides some information about > > these particular coding systems. They should be indexed so > > users can easily find that information. > > But there's no information to find. Yes there is. About the same degree of information as for our "descriptions" of variables `blink-cursor-alist' and `auto-coding-alist' - more, in fact. We say what the undecided-* coding systems do wrt end-of-line conversion, and we mention their aliases. > > An index does not refer only to "detailed documentation" > > about terms. It refers to terms that we think a user is > > likely to look for in the book. It is often the case that > > a term is indexed that is only mentioned in the book. > > What is important is whether a user might want to look it > > up, not how much the book goes into detail about it. > > Not in my book. Whatever. I do indexing for a living. But it's `your book'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 02 02:11:36 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2011 06:11:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QctQV-0007Sb-Sb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 02:11:36 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QctQT-0007SP-Bt for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 02:11:34 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LNO00900ZMZV000@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 09:11:26 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.8.216]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LNO009Y2ZV1FKN0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 09:11:26 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 09:11:29 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83iprlqkj2.fsf@gnu.org> References: <246694EE605F4CE391A4FB9416853D98@us.oracle.com> <83pqltriq9.fsf@gnu.org> <9BB5F2A7090B4F2585512C563D1717B3@us.oracle.com> <83liwhrdc8.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: , <8900@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 14:00:01 -0700 > > You need detailed doc about *each* coding system before you will index *any* of > them? I never said that. Some of them _are_ indexed: raw-text, no-conversion, and emacs-internal. That's because the manual says something specific about them, unlike the others. > > Having index entries about something that isn't described > > is a Bad Thing. > > "Described" is vague here, so it's hard to judge. Not really. The following is _not_ a description: For example, the coding system @code{iso-latin-1} has variants @code{iso-latin-1-unix}, @code{iso-latin-1-dos} and @code{iso-latin-1-mac}. This mentions iso-latin-1-*, but says nothing at all about them. The whole sentence is an explanation of the -dos, -unix, -mac variants of each coding-system, and uses iso-latin-1-* as an example. And there's no other reference to iso-latin-1-* anywhere in the manual. How hard is it to judge that these symbols are not documented in the manual? I say it's obvious. A reader who wants to know something about iso-latin-1 will not be wiser after reading this. > I do indexing for a living. Then I pity your readers. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 02 08:38:29 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2011 12:38:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QczSu-0001Jm-RD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 08:38:29 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QczSt-0001Jb-MQ for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 08:38:28 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QczSi-0004Ub-GC; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 14:38:16 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual In-Reply-To: <83mxgxrdha.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 01 Jul 2011 22:46:09 +0300") Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 14:38:09 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83r569rj2z.fsf@gnu.org> <83mxgxrdha.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAMFBMVEXN0OZMVpvw8Pbf4e8j KnJ/h78QE1JibKy4vdz6+vs5Qon////+//4GBjz+/v2gps9PbVDcAAAB7UlEQVQ4jWPYjQH2gYhN DJgSu/FK7MMlsXsQS7zGLvFISXkeiLkPTWKf8gcGJj0sOh73B0rJM83DlFD45SUutaJ5NrrEPgbf FPHwciZtDAnT3Cs/OpQ/WKJL7Oy6e80tq8JACV1i899ry8PdHJuZFfrLl/9ggDuPYdParA8MUS4i 6SUuLgul3LLEP72G6sh1bJrJLrhq4SqXVYJubi4paUubXoIkNlxz71Q2FaxycUtxcbuWe+1a7hUX t09gCcfPCq0Ll+VmBYcLCi5Z4pbm4uXiqg006lpKfXP7smur5DV+fG3g6Pi6tDTkyvKfQMvTFsx+ UJW2qvxzP4PBf6NHMy0YauVbPwD9wTxv5/wqr4Wl8eHx9uU/frxhMk3lfF8BDKv5rsoK4W4LpZYs W1guKOLyP6KtaBJrASjYf3mt4M9Nc0lzWVjiIpXmuHRJxNfQIFBETXVbuDD3msvSz5OUNJU54gv9 AwXLuUESG6S+pN1NWc8MCY19L4INOpjAUbvTIuTu3Yp4y3focb57s9vdu5/l0cIdJLFp7d2LGgXa GBKTlMvuXpz34TWGxMv539MC7NEjHWTUzvYC08KmeZgSux93hNcji++DSQBznDF6MoVI7Hz5cjdW CSxgkEpgy39giXdA8PrdvteoWXTfOwDxau8WPR5s+AAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Various's _Jonny_: "Effie Briest - Universe" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110702:eliz@gnu.org::Pe1e6gf2GB/ze+9A:00000ESUJ X-Hashcash: 1:23:110702:8900@debbugs.gnu.org::pf3jyypktY3KPxUp:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000Gb++ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QczSi-0004Ub-GC X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310215096.59116@rMgVxowBJyU0izdJsiegsA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> is wrong, because the text does not describe the iso-latin-1 encoding >> in any way. > > I fixed that now. Great; thanks. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 02 10:37:33 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2011 14:37:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qd1K8-0001wn-UN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 10:37:33 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qd1K6-0001wb-Mv for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 10:37:31 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p62EbNQa016924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Jul 2011 14:37:24 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p62EbMOX018958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 2 Jul 2011 14:37:22 GMT Received: from abhmt115.oracle.com (abhmt115.oracle.com [141.146.116.67]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p62EbGYX005255; Sat, 2 Jul 2011 09:37:17 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.63.244) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 07:37:16 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" References: <246694EE605F4CE391A4FB9416853D98@us.oracle.com> <83pqltriq9.fsf@gnu.org> <9BB5F2A7090B4F2585512C563D1717B3@us.oracle.com> <83liwhrdc8.fsf@gnu.org> <83iprlqkj2.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 07:37:07 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <83iprlqkj2.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Acw4fuXWvfHyY8FXSrCgvC/brtlOzAARBsJQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4E0F2D25.0017:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.5 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.5 (----) > > You need detailed doc about *each* coding system before you > > will index *any* of them? > > I never said that. Sure seems that way to me. You said: E> not until we have a detailed documentation of each E> encoding there. But if you've relaxed about that, fine. > Some of them _are_ indexed: raw-text, no-conversion, and > emacs-internal. That's because the manual says > something specific about them, unlike the others. No. _None_ of those are indexed in the build I reported on. Perhaps you are seeing them now because Lars added them in response to this bug report? As I said earlier, and to which Lars agreed: > L> Some of these were already in the index, > D> I don't see any of them. `i' followed by a prefix of any of D> those names shows [No match]... And searching each of the D> indexes for each of those terms, I find none of them. > The following is _not_ a description: > For example, the coding system @code{iso-latin-1} has > variants @code{iso-latin-1-unix}... I agree about that. The same cannot be said however for the case I cited: D> We say what the undecided-* coding systems do wrt end-of-line D> conversion, and we mention their aliases. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 02 11:27:30 2011 Received: (at 8900) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2011 15:27:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qd26U-0005kn-HV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 11:27:30 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qd26Q-0005kU-Ua for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 11:27:28 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LNP00E00PI2SO00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 8900@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 18:27:19 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.8.216]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LNP00ECSPLIRG20@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 18:27:19 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 18:27:23 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8900: 24.0.50; please index mentioned coding systems in Emacs manual In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83ei28r9d0.fsf@gnu.org> References: <246694EE605F4CE391A4FB9416853D98@us.oracle.com> <83pqltriq9.fsf@gnu.org> <9BB5F2A7090B4F2585512C563D1717B3@us.oracle.com> <83liwhrdc8.fsf@gnu.org> <83iprlqkj2.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8900 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8900@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > Cc: , <8900@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 07:37:07 -0700 > > > > You need detailed doc about *each* coding system before you > > > will index *any* of them? > > > > I never said that. > > Sure seems that way to me. You said: > > E> not until we have a detailed documentation of each > E> encoding there. There's no "before I will index *any* of them" here, is there? > > Some of them _are_ indexed: raw-text, no-conversion, and > > emacs-internal. That's because the manual says > > something specific about them, unlike the others. > > No. _None_ of those are indexed in the build I reported on. http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/lh/emacs/trunk/annotate/head:/doc/emacs/mule.texi > Perhaps you are seeing them now because Lars added them in response > to this bug report? "Are" does mean "now". Yes, Lars added index entries, and I moved them to their correct places. > I agree about that. The same cannot be said however for the case I cited: > > D> We say what the undecided-* coding systems do wrt end-of-line > D> conversion, and we mention their aliases. Your bug report was about these: `no-conversion', `raw-text', `emacs-internal', `iso-latin-1-unix', `iso-latin-1-dos', `iso-latin-1-mac', `undecided-unix', `undecided-dos', `undecided-mac' Of these, the iso-latin-1-* are not described in the manual, and thus have no index entries. All the others are indexed in the repository. You are welcome. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:47:39 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator