From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 18 12:45:44 2011 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jun 2011 16:45:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QXyeU-0008FK-75 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:45:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QXyeP-0008E8-1p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:45:39 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QXyeG-0007J9-Ck for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:45:31 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]:48310) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QXyeG-0007J5-4Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:45:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:41650) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QXyeC-0003X1-AR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:45:27 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QXye8-0007I9-E4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:45:24 -0400 Received: from mail-qw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.216.41]:55190) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QXye7-0007Hu-SE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:45:20 -0400 Received: by qwa26 with SMTP id 26so1300488qwa.0 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 09:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.74.206 with SMTP id v14mr2722655qcj.69.1308415517483; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 09:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.luannocracy.com (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r33sm851369qcs.30.2011.06.18.09.45.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 18 Jun 2011 09:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.luannocracy.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id A72C55280C2; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:45:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 23.3; message writing slows emacs Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:45:15 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.17 X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) I haven't done actual timings, but I'm finding that I have a *very* strong perception that when emacs is writing lots of messages, it slows down considerably. Even if this is only a perception, if it's shared by others I think it should be considered a bug. Unless the *Message* buffer is visible, these messages are often flashing by so quickly that nobody could hope to see them. It would be good, IMO, to delay updating the visible message in the minibuffer line long enough to be sure that the message just written isn't about to be overwritten so fast that the user couldn't read it anyway. In GNU Emacs 23.3.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin, NS apple-appkit-1038.35) of 2011-03-09 on black.porkrind.org Windowing system distributor `Apple', version 10.3.1038 configured using `configure '--host=x86_64-apple-darwin' '--build=i686-apple-darwin' '--with-ns' 'build_alias=i686-apple-darwin' 'host_alias=x86_64-apple-darwin' 'CC=gcc -mmacosx-version-min=10.5'' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: nil value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: nil default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Emacs-Lisp Minor modes in effect: diff-auto-refine-mode: t me-minor-mode: t show-paren-mode: t ido-everywhere: t global-auto-revert-mode: t delete-selection-mode: t tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent input: C-, C-, C-, C-a C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-n C-, C-, C-, C-, C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-e C-p C-p C-p C-n C-n C-n C-e C-, C-, C-, C-, C-, C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-e C-b C-n C-e C-n C-n C-p C-p C-n C-n C-b C-( C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-n C-n C-e C-, C-a C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-. C-. C-. C-. C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-. C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-p C-p C-, C-, C-, C-, C-, C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-n C-. C-. C-. C-x C-n C-x C-n C-n C-p q y C-x C-n C-x C-p C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p M-x M-p C-g M-x e m a c s - b u f g C-a - Recent messages: Saving file /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/dwamacs/settings/wl-settings.el... Saving file /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/dwamacs/settings/mime-view-settings.el... Saving file /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/dwamacs/settings/compile-settings.el... Saving file /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/dwamacs/settings/ediff-settings.el... Saving file /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/dwamacs/settings/settings.el... Wrote /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/dwamacs/settings/settings.el uncompressing files.el.gz...done Mark saved where search started Quit this Ediff session? 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/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/gnus/auth-source /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/time-date hides /Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/calendar/time-date /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/parse-time hides /Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/calendar/parse-time Features: (shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr message format-spec rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader emacsbug thingatpt newcomment cus-edit multi-isearch jka-compr ediff-merg ediff-diff ediff-wind ediff-help ediff-util ediff-mult ediff-init ediff vc-git wl-score mule-util ssl elmo-nntp elmo-sendlog elmo-internal elmo-imap4 time-stamp elmo-net elmo-dop elmo-cache elmo-map hl-line modb-standard wl-mime mime-edit pgg-parse mail-utils mailalias mime-setup mail-mime-setup semi-setup mime-pgp pgg-def mime-play filename mime-image signature wl-spam elmo-spam elsp-header elsp-generic org-wl bookmark org-mac-message org-habit org-agenda org-id org-crypt org ob-emacs-lisp ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table org-footnote org-src ob-comint ob-keys ob ob-eval org-pcomplete pcomplete org-list org-faces org-compat org-entities org-macs cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs filladapt wl-demo wl-draft eword-encode wl-template sendmail wl-news derived wl-address wl-thread wl-action wl-summary ps-print ps-def lpr wl-refile wl-message elmo-mime mmelmo-buffer mmelmo-imap mime-view mime-conf calist semi-def mmimap mime-parse mmbuffer mmgeneric wl-highlight elmo-multi wl-folder wl wl-e21 wl-util pp elmo-flag elmo-localdir wl-vars epg-config wl-version elmo elmo-signal elmo-msgdb modb modb-generic modb-entity mime elmo-util emu invisible inv-23 poem poem-e20 poem-e20_3 utf7 eword-decode mel mime-def alist std11 mcharset mcs-20 mcs-e20 pces pces-e20 pces-20 broken pcustom elmo-date timezone path-util elmo-vars poe elmo-version pym static apel-ver product luna magit diff-mode log-edit pcvs-util add-log zenburn compile comint ring maxframe system-type-darwin-theme .loaddefs find-func browse-kill-ring byte-code-cache byte-opt gravatar time-date url-cache url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-util url-parse url-vars mm-util mail-prsvr mailcap org-install gnus-load info markdown-mode noutline outline yasnippet advice advice-preload edmacro kmacro help-mode view assoc color-theme wid-edit el-get autoload help-fns bytecomp byte-compile cl cl-19 dired regexp-opt easy-mmode warnings paren server ido autorevert delsel cus-start cus-load elhome tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel ns-win easymenu tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mldrag mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev loaddefs button minibuffer faces cus-face files text-properties overlay md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process ns multi-tty emacs) -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 11 00:47:29 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 04:47:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2bx3-00088b-3p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 00:47:29 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2bwy-000880-BV for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 00:47:25 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R2bsm-0001a6-EX; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 06:43:04 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Dave Abrahams Subject: Re: 23.3; message writing slows emacs In-Reply-To: (Dave Abrahams's message of "Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:45:15 -0400") Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 06:32:33 +0200 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: The Wolfgang Press's _Sweatbox_: "Heart of Stone" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1R2bsm-0001a6-EX X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1316320984.50516@vDVgKe3SEDkuqjmE19QMUw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Dave Abrahams writes: > It would be good, IMO, to delay updating the visible message in the > minibuffer line long enough to be sure that the message just written > isn't about to be overwritten so fast that the user couldn't read it > anyway. Over-enthusiastic messaging isn't pretty, but slowing down Emacs just to display normal "informative" messages would be really bad, in my opinion. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 11 02:58:59 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 06:58:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2e0J-000096-3w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 02:58:59 -0400 Received: from mail-vw0-f45.google.com ([209.85.212.45]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2e0B-00008t-8t for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 02:58:54 -0400 Received: by vws17 with SMTP id 17so3365163vws.18 for <8890@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 23:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.199.135 with SMTP id es7mr1082833vcb.43.1315724076405; Sat, 10 Sep 2011 23:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.local (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v2sm187069vdj.5.2011.09.10.23.54.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 10 Sep 2011 23:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id A2A9FE742B6; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 02:54:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: 23.3; message writing slows emacs References: Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 02:54:34 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 11 Sep 2011 06:32:33 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/23.3 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) on Sun Sep 11 2011, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Dave Abrahams writes: > >> It would be good, IMO, to delay updating the visible message in the >> minibuffer line long enough to be sure that the message just written >> isn't about to be overwritten so fast that the user couldn't read it >> anyway. > > Over-enthusiastic messaging isn't pretty, but slowing down Emacs just to > display normal "informative" messages would be really bad, in my > opinion. I'm sorry; you've misunderstood me. I agree with you! I don't mean to pause emacs; I mean to buffer the message until it has been stable for some amount of time. Hmm, I don't know whether emacs has the architecture for that sort of asynchrony... but it should :-) -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 11 05:00:08 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 09:00:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2ftY-0000HP-7G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 05:00:08 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2ftV-0000Bv-7w for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 05:00:06 -0400 Received: from eliz by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R2fpN-00018z-JQ; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:55:49 -0400 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:55:49 -0400 Message-Id: From: Eli Zaretskii To: Dave Abrahams In-reply-to: (message from Dave Abrahams on Sun, 11 Sep 2011 02:54:34 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs References: X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) > From: Dave Abrahams > Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 02:54:34 -0400 > Cc: 8890@debbugs.gnu.org > > I mean to buffer the message until it has been stable for some > amount of time. I don't understand the details of the feature you are requesting. Suppose `message' is being repeatedly called by some Lisp program in quick succession -- what would you like to be actually displayed? only the text of final message? If so, why is that a good idea? Most "good" uses of fast echoing display very similar messages, like "Updating... NN% done", where only the number changes. It would be a pity to lose this checkpointing feature, IMO. So you will probably say that there should be a variable to be bound to select one behavior or the other. But if Lisp code needs to bind a variable to avoid the flashing of different messages, why not avoid those messages in the first place? Your original report says: I haven't done actual timings, but I'm finding that I have a *very* strong perception that when emacs is writing lots of messages, it slows down considerably. Redisplay always slows down, but on any modern machine displaying only the echo area should take a few milliseconds at the most, so I'd be surprised if some real slowdown was involved. If you can show some timings, please do, as there could be a bug or misfeature somewhere. Anyway, can you describe the situation in which you see these flashing messages? The only one I can think of is when Emacs starts up and restores a previous session. Is that your use case, or did you see this in other situations? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 11 06:50:03 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 10:50:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2hbu-0008Nf-1t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 06:50:02 -0400 Received: from mail-vw0-f45.google.com ([209.85.212.45]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2hbq-0008NL-8Z for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 06:49:59 -0400 Received: by vws17 with SMTP id 17so3461036vws.18 for <8890@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 03:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.70.106 with SMTP id l10mr1533836vdu.483.1315737941806; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 03:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.local (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bi11sm8274616vdb.13.2011.09.11.03.45.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 11 Sep 2011 03:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E670CE7B04A; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 06:45:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs References: Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 06:45:39 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:55:49 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/23.3 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) on Sun Sep 11 2011, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Dave Abrahams > >> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 02:54:34 -0400 >> Cc: 8890@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> I mean to buffer the message until it has been stable for some >> amount of time. > > I don't understand the details of the feature you are requesting. > Suppose `message' is being repeatedly called by some Lisp program in > quick succession -- what would you like to be actually displayed? only > the text of final message? If so, why is that a good idea? Most > "good" uses of fast echoing display very similar messages, like > "Updating... NN% done", where only the number changes. OK, good point. But actually it's those that set the message once for each percentage (or even more often) that cause me the most (perceived) slowdown. If you're just updating percentage complete, please don't do it more than once every .5 seconds... at the fastest! > It would be a pity to lose this checkpointing feature, IMO. So you > will probably say that there should be a variable to be bound to > select one behavior or the other. No need to argue against that; I wasn't going to suggest it. > Your original report says: > > I haven't done actual timings, but I'm finding that I have a *very* > strong perception that when emacs is writing lots of messages, it > slows down considerably. > > Redisplay always slows down, but on any modern machine displaying only > the echo area should take a few milliseconds at the most, so I'd be > surprised if some real slowdown was involved. Don't forget that messages also fill up the *Messages* buffer. > If you can show some timings, please do, as there could be a bug or > misfeature somewhere. I probably don't have time to do it, sadly. So you will probably say there should be a variable bound to give me more time... wait, I mean you'll probably say that's a cop-out. Guilty as charged. > Anyway, can you describe the situation in which you see these flashing > messages? The only one I can think of is when Emacs starts up and > restores a previous session. Is that your use case, or did you see > this in other situations? Yeah, there's something in Gnus, perhaps article expiry, that seems slow mostly because gnus-verbose defaults to 7 and it writes out gobs of messages. When I turned gnus-verbose down it seemed a lot faster. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 11 07:25:13 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 11:25:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2i9x-0002AB-DO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:25:13 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2i9t-0002A1-Qb for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:25:10 -0400 Received: from eliz by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R2i5l-0007zR-VI; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:20:54 -0400 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:20:53 -0400 Message-Id: From: Eli Zaretskii To: Dave Abrahams In-reply-to: (message from Dave Abrahams on Sun, 11 Sep 2011 06:45:39 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs References: X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.6 (------) > From: Dave Abrahams > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 06:45:39 -0400 > > If you're just updating percentage complete, please don't do > it more than once every .5 seconds... at the fastest! Agreed, but that's something for the application programmers to consider, not for the infrastructure. > > Redisplay always slows down, but on any modern machine displaying only > > the echo area should take a few milliseconds at the most, so I'd be > > surprised if some real slowdown was involved. > > Don't forget that messages also fill up the *Messages* buffer. I think that's so fast it can be ignored, unless _generating_ these messages takes non-trivial computations. > > Anyway, can you describe the situation in which you see these flashing > > messages? The only one I can think of is when Emacs starts up and > > restores a previous session. Is that your use case, or did you see > > this in other situations? > > Yeah, there's something in Gnus, perhaps article expiry, that seems slow > mostly because gnus-verbose defaults to 7 and it writes out gobs of > messages. When I turned gnus-verbose down it seemed a lot faster. Maybe there's something specific to Gnus, then. In which case it's a good thing we have Lars listening ;-) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 11 07:35:19 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 11:35:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2iJi-00036u-GY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:35:19 -0400 Received: from mail-vx0-f172.google.com ([209.85.220.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2iJf-00036m-I8 for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:35:17 -0400 Received: by vxj14 with SMTP id 14so1100779vxj.3 for <8890@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.75.9 with SMTP id y9mr1233587vdv.120.1315740659250; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.local (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q5sm8311142vdu.23.2011.09.11.04.30.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:30:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3C9FEE7BA92; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:30:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs References: Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:30:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:20:53 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/23.3 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) on Sun Sep 11 2011, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Dave Abrahams > >> Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 06:45:39 -0400 >> >> If you're just updating percentage complete, please don't do >> it more than once every .5 seconds... at the fastest! > > Agreed, but that's something for the application programmers to > consider, not for the infrastructure. Well, not necessarily. If emacs had a built-in, sanctioned "progress" library, people could use that and it would take care of the problem. >> > Anyway, can you describe the situation in which you see these flashing >> > messages? The only one I can think of is when Emacs starts up and >> > restores a previous session. Is that your use case, or did you see >> > this in other situations? >> >> Yeah, there's something in Gnus, perhaps article expiry, that seems slow >> mostly because gnus-verbose defaults to 7 and it writes out gobs of >> messages. When I turned gnus-verbose down it seemed a lot faster. > > Maybe there's something specific to Gnus, then. In which case it's a > good thing we have Lars listening ;-) Maybe. But it seems like a common enough issue that emacs should provide application programmers with some tools for avoiding it. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 11 11:03:35 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 15:03:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lZG-000187-NH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:03:35 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lZ5-00017V-T7 for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:03:24 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lUr-00084X-7y; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:59:01 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Dave Abrahams Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs In-Reply-To: (Dave Abrahams's message of "Sun, 11 Sep 2011 06:45:39 -0400") Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:51:39 +0200 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAHlBMVEUhGR2GamsXDxFBNkNV R1MqISj///8IBQY3KzPUzM3UDWW3AAACVElEQVQ4jY3SzW+bMBQAcNfEIse5Q+1yQ2QIjgQbKbuV j645MqgF11wicaM0kXtMMGhcuUTNf7uElXYkmzQffPn5Pb9nP7D6xwL/Awe8/xscWmUe7C8ha30y vp5cQvvZSRvf3Z9D1t6nhASzwzkcMIwrn9ILaH01dn3fx+eA78BjMPfFe8VvkCkeEI5DUvcCbPhI 70Xq3vRw6I4sFSdk1ImZ23cC+PcOgiaExBGMvkPRQRvUEJHFn4B6kBCZpzXt6wX6GzS62I5Tdg6Y NqqI9Kas+kaA1oFC6xAV43T0Ab8vDyoTGvm6qar+S0DegV/VESxGzbSiPWxOkBHqRDARAhE6iDiB JpVCxIQM7sjm9C4XYRzHldND9ySZE3tayiQJVvMhWMAyDBVJNSVDsKE1NRBM9WAxhC1sCm5w1SJn qUI15lzlxa3wV0PQJS1KdHgrFkOAJoNeYhq8OYNI92QtMeWC3A/BU6G9gaNkTcEQyjBKuHH18ESf B7Aspxrg8jh6ttc9dOOztAxuyoYmc3nd99Htyy3nKOaqXBgvP/YfkPl2zhumoZ8Ff2l2H6CUiWZU loZgzk1BvvXQLjR4hE8aKPVjhOiGDpwSMaaGvFI2TQl43pAZnpwgUxghKpRneCNsZKiM7PBxhsCq 3VYYm1p0ggeUq6ye4WMIWL1O3SAwYblTnsU12CBWuhjjI3ypFr5QozDYPs09pCOmuXiC9yALdgtH kqIaW18DT9JRCN120u7B0vUZmEph2i7M2BsBwCBWTtDOAoNvxuBx8mrG9lXIQnYEfPMLW299fQNY b94AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Zola Jesus's _Stridulum EP_: "Stridulum" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1R2lUr-00084X-7y X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1316357941.59948@VNMCj8zyTmU5vudvxqLGSQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Dave Abrahams writes: > Yeah, there's something in Gnus, perhaps article expiry, that seems slow > mostly because gnus-verbose defaults to 7 and it writes out gobs of > messages. When I turned gnus-verbose down it seemed a lot faster. That sounds like a bug. :-) I see that I have `gnus-verbose' set to 4. I'll set it to the default and pounce on unnecessary messaging... -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 11 11:03:37 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 15:03:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lZH-00018D-3k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:03:37 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lZ7-00017d-B5 for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 11:03:28 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R2lUs-00084o-Dd; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:59:02 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Dave Abrahams Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs In-Reply-To: (Dave Abrahams's message of "Sun, 11 Sep 2011 07:30:57 -0400") Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:52:56 +0200 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAHlBMVEUhGR2GamsXDxFBNkNV R1MqISj///8IBQY3KzPUzM3UDWW3AAACVElEQVQ4jY3SzW+bMBQAcNfEIse5Q+1yQ2QIjgQbKbuV j645MqgF11wicaM0kXtMMGhcuUTNf7uElXYkmzQffPn5Pb9nP7D6xwL/Awe8/xscWmUe7C8ha30y vp5cQvvZSRvf3Z9D1t6nhASzwzkcMIwrn9ILaH01dn3fx+eA78BjMPfFe8VvkCkeEI5DUvcCbPhI 70Xq3vRw6I4sFSdk1ImZ23cC+PcOgiaExBGMvkPRQRvUEJHFn4B6kBCZpzXt6wX6GzS62I5Tdg6Y NqqI9Kas+kaA1oFC6xAV43T0Ab8vDyoTGvm6qar+S0DegV/VESxGzbSiPWxOkBHqRDARAhE6iDiB JpVCxIQM7sjm9C4XYRzHldND9ySZE3tayiQJVvMhWMAyDBVJNSVDsKE1NRBM9WAxhC1sCm5w1SJn qUI15lzlxa3wV0PQJS1KdHgrFkOAJoNeYhq8OYNI92QtMeWC3A/BU6G9gaNkTcEQyjBKuHH18ESf B7Aspxrg8jh6ttc9dOOztAxuyoYmc3nd99Htyy3nKOaqXBgvP/YfkPl2zhumoZ8Ff2l2H6CUiWZU loZgzk1BvvXQLjR4hE8aKPVjhOiGDpwSMaaGvFI2TQl43pAZnpwgUxghKpRneCNsZKiM7PBxhsCq 3VYYm1p0ggeUq6ye4WMIWL1O3SAwYblTnsU12CBWuhjjI3ypFr5QozDYPs09pCOmuXiC9yALdgtH kqIaW18DT9JRCN120u7B0vUZmEph2i7M2BsBwCBWTtDOAoNvxuBx8mrG9lXIQnYEfPMLW299fQNY b94AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Zola Jesus's _Stridulum EP_: "Run Me Out" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1R2lUs-00084o-Dd X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1316357942.92352@G2NaI9TnxzeMVPyR0rpFNw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Dave Abrahams writes: >>> If you're just updating percentage complete, please don't do >>> it more than once every .5 seconds... at the fastest! >> >> Agreed, but that's something for the application programmers to >> consider, not for the infrastructure. > > Well, not necessarily. If emacs had a built-in, sanctioned "progress" > library, people could use that and it would take care of the problem. Emacs does clever screen updates, though. So if the only thing that changes is the number before the percentage, Emacs won't repaint the entire line, I think? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 11 12:02:47 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 16:02:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2mUZ-0005Ob-5U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:02:47 -0400 Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2mUV-0005OS-Rd for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:02:45 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LRD00A007WA1K00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 18:58:25 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.9.62]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LRD0013V8DBJB80@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 18:58:24 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 18:58:24 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Message-id: <83fwk3xe8v.fsf@gnu.org> References: X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: dave@boostpro.com, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) > From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:52:56 +0200 > > Emacs does clever screen updates, though. So if the only thing that > changes is the number before the percentage, Emacs won't repaint the > entire line, I think? True. Like I said, redisplay of the echo area is very fast. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 11 12:43:45 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2011 16:43:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2n8C-0007oM-KG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:43:45 -0400 Received: from mail-vx0-f172.google.com ([209.85.220.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R2n8A-0007oF-3g for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:43:43 -0400 Received: by vxj14 with SMTP id 14so1193229vxj.3 for <8890@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 09:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.189.198 with SMTP id df6mr147336vcb.17.1315759165185; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 09:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.luannocracy.com (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k2sm1400909vdj.6.2011.09.11.09.39.24 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 11 Sep 2011 09:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.luannocracy.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id 76EEFE7CCF5; Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:39:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs References: <83fwk3xe8v.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:39:23 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83fwk3xe8v.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 11 Sep 2011 18:58:24 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/23.3 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) on Sun Sep 11 2011, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen > >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:52:56 +0200 >> >> Emacs does clever screen updates, though. So if the only thing that >> changes is the number before the percentage, Emacs won't repaint the >> entire line, I think? > > True. Like I said, redisplay of the echo area is very fast. I don't think it's clever enough. Try this: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- (let (timings) (dolist (reps '(1 10)) (let ((start-time (current-time))) (loop for x to 10000 do (loop repeat reps do (message "message #%s" x))) (push (time-subtract (current-time) start-time) timings))) (message "%s" (mapcar 'time-to-seconds timings))) --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- I get (29.539774 2.514761) I think this shows that it takes (more than) 10x as long to write out the same message 10 times as it does to write it out once. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 15 22:27:34 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Sep 2011 02:27:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4O9N-0004EK-LY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:27:34 -0400 Received: from mail-qy0-f179.google.com ([209.85.216.179]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4O9K-0004EA-3V for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:27:31 -0400 Received: by qyk33 with SMTP id 33so3440110qyk.3 for <8890@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 19:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.95.138 with SMTP id d10mr196514qan.227.1316139767708; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 19:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.local (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com. [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id el2sm9241739qab.2.2011.09.15.19.22.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 15 Sep 2011 19:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9C58BF1AADE; Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:22:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs References: <83fwk3xe8v.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:22:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Dave Abrahams's message of "Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:39:23 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/23.3 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) on Sun Sep 11 2011, Dave Abrahams wrote: > on Sun Sep 11 2011, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >>> From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen >> >>> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org >>> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:52:56 +0200 >>> >>> Emacs does clever screen updates, though. So if the only thing that >>> changes is the number before the percentage, Emacs won't repaint the >>> entire line, I think? >> >> True. Like I said, redisplay of the echo area is very fast. > > I don't think it's clever enough. Try this: > (let (timings) > (dolist (reps '(1 10)) > (let ((start-time (current-time))) > (loop for x to 10000 do > (loop repeat reps do > (message "message #%s" x))) > (push (time-subtract (current-time) start-time) timings))) > (message "%s" (mapcar 'time-to-seconds timings))) > I get (29.539774 2.514761) > > I think this shows that it takes (more than) 10x as long to write out > the same message 10 times as it does to write it out once. The above looks to me like conclusive evidence that writing out the same percentage many times as part of a progress indication, rather than, say, updating progress information once per second, will slow things down a lot... and that's not a Gnus-specific problem. *I* think this is important, anyway. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 16 04:59:21 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Sep 2011 08:59:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4UGX-0008Lf-Bs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 04:59:21 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4UGU-0008LV-GG for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 04:59:19 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LRL00500XZX2E00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:54:26 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.9.62]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LRL0048QY2PH890@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:54:26 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:54:28 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Dave Abrahams Message-id: <83litovpdn.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83fwk3xe8v.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) > From: Dave Abrahams > Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:39:23 -0400 > > >> Emacs does clever screen updates, though. So if the only thing that > >> changes is the number before the percentage, Emacs won't repaint the > >> entire line, I think? > > > > True. Like I said, redisplay of the echo area is very fast. > > I don't think it's clever enough. Try this: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > (let (timings) > (dolist (reps '(1 10)) > (let ((start-time (current-time))) > (loop for x to 10000 do > (loop repeat reps do > (message "message #%s" x))) > (push (time-subtract (current-time) start-time) timings))) > (message "%s" (mapcar 'time-to-seconds timings))) > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > I get (29.539774 2.514761) > > I think this shows that it takes (more than) 10x as long to write out > the same message 10 times as it does to write it out once. My results are different: . in a GUI session: (16.172 2.891) . in a -nw (TTY) session: (26.125 4.734) The above is from an unoptimized build. Here are timings from an optimized build: . GUI session: (10.875 2.0) . TTY: (19.313 3.453) This shows that it takes 45% _less_ time to write the same message 10 times than 10x time to write the message once. So at best the numbers are inconclusive. Anyway, I know for a fact that Emacs does optimize screen writes in this case. Look at the function dispnew.c:update_text_area, around lines 3784 to 3967. I actually put a breakpoint there and saw that only the changing number is being redrawn while running your test code. E.g., on line 3885, I see i = 9 while stop = 11, which means Emacs will redraw only 2 characters. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 16 09:23:38 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Sep 2011 13:23:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4YOH-0003G1-Pa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 09:23:38 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183] helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4YOG-0003Fu-Bm for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 09:23:37 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EALBLc05FpYYd/2dsb2JhbABCp1p4gVMBAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSICrUjhngEoE6ERA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.68,393,1312171200"; d="scan'208";a="136697564" Received: from 69-165-134-29.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.134.29]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 16 Sep 2011 09:18:51 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 266B158F87; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 09:18:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Dave Abrahams Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs Message-ID: References: Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 09:18:51 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Dave Abrahams's message of "Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:45:15 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) > I haven't done actual timings, but I'm finding that I have a *very* > strong perception that when Emacs is writing lots of messages, it slows > down considerably. No doubt: Emacs redisplay is among its slowest operations, and while "message" is handled specially so it doesn't cause a full redisplay, it's still a slow operation. > Even if this is only a perception, if it's shared by > others I think it should be considered a bug. I think it's largely unavoidable. > Unless the *Message* buffer is visible, these messages are often > flashing by so quickly that nobody could hope to see them. Any such circumstance where messages flash by quickly and repeatedly (the repetition is important, since otherwise the speed impact is negligible compared to the redisplay that takes place at the end of every command anyway) is a bug, so please report them. > It would be good, IMO, to delay updating the visible message in the > minibuffer line long enough to be sure that the message just written > isn't about to be overwritten so fast that the user couldn't read > it anyway. We could try and have such a mechanism, yes, but it might be easier to handle it at some other level. E.g. the progress-reporter functions attack one instance of the problem. > Redisplay always slows down, but on any modern machine displaying only > the echo area should take a few milliseconds at the most, so I'd be > surprised if some real slowdown was involved. If you can show some > timings, please do, as there could be a bug or misfeature somewhere. We've already had cases where we found that most of the time was spent displaying messages. That's why progress-reporter doesn't call message at every update. "A few milliseconds" sounds negligible, but if it's done at every iteration of a loop whose body takes less than a millisecond to run (we can do a lot of work in a millisecond on today's machines), then it's a major slowdown. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 16 09:50:52 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Sep 2011 13:50:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4Yoe-0005S4-8q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 09:50:52 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4Yoc-0005Rv-0J for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 09:50:51 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LRM00800BD2AK00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:46:02 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.9.62]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LRM008BQBKM9230@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:45:59 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:45:32 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Stefan Monnier Message-id: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> References: X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: dave@boostpro.com, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) > From: Stefan Monnier > Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 09:18:51 -0400 > Cc: 8890@debbugs.gnu.org > > "A few milliseconds" sounds negligible, but if it's done at every > iteration of a loop whose body takes less than a millisecond to run > (we can do a lot of work in a millisecond on today's machines), then > it's a major slowdown. Then programmers who run those loops should update the progress less aggressively. Redisplay (and infrastructure in general) lack the context that would allow them to make good decisions as to when defer repeated display. Only the calling application can know that. > (we can do a lot of work in a millisecond on today's machines) >From my experience, if a full redisplay cycle takes less than 50 ms, it "feels" responsive enough. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 16 10:24:58 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Sep 2011 14:24:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4ZLe-0007vi-13 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:24:58 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183] helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4ZLc-0007va-Aw for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:24:56 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAPhac05FpYYd/2dsb2JhbABBp1p4gVMBAQVWIxALNBIUGA0kvGuGeASgToRE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.68,393,1312171200"; d="scan'208";a="136706187" Received: from 69-165-134-29.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.134.29]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 16 Sep 2011 10:20:05 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 13CC758F87; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:20:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs Message-ID: References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:20:05 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:45:32 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: dave@boostpro.com, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) >> "A few milliseconds" sounds negligible, but if it's done at every >> iteration of a loop whose body takes less than a millisecond to run >> (we can do a lot of work in a millisecond on today's machines), then >> it's a major slowdown. > Then programmers who run those loops should update the progress less > aggressively. Redisplay (and infrastructure in general) lack the > context that would allow them to make good decisions as to when defer > repeated display. Only the calling application can know that. Indeed. The main problem with changing `message' is that if it is called too soon after the previous `message' we can't easily say "don't display this one" since there may not be any subsequent message coming, so we'd have to stash the last undisplayed message and then try and figure out good places/times to cause them to be displayed. So the general approach to fixing those problems is to say "use progress-reporter-update" since this function has the advantage of knowing that there will be a `progress-reporter-done' at some later point, which allows it to skip a message without worries. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 16 11:14:54 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Sep 2011 15:14:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4a7v-0002zx-99 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:14:54 -0400 Received: from mail-qy0-f172.google.com ([209.85.216.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4a7s-0002zp-2u for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:14:49 -0400 Received: by qyk32 with SMTP id 32so479945qyk.3 for <8890@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 08:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.188.207 with SMTP id db15mr1069859qcb.231.1316185802969; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 08:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.luannocracy.com (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com. [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id do8sm7247003qab.17.2011.09.16.08.10.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 16 Sep 2011 08:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.luannocracy.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id B117AF2276D; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:09:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:09:59 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:45:32 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/23.3 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: Stefan Monnier , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) on Fri Sep 16 2011, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Stefan Monnier > >> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 09:18:51 -0400 >> Cc: 8890@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> "A few milliseconds" sounds negligible, but if it's done at every >> iteration of a loop whose body takes less than a millisecond to run >> (we can do a lot of work in a millisecond on today's machines), then >> it's a major slowdown. > > Then programmers who run those loops should update the progress less > aggressively. Redisplay (and infrastructure in general) lack the > context that would allow them to make good decisions as to when defer > repeated display. Only the calling application can know that. There's a middle path: provide a `progress-message' function. That allows the caller to provide the semantic context that this particular message isn't critical without burdening every single application with building its own throttling updater. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 16 11:16:46 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Sep 2011 15:16:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4a9l-0003q7-N6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:16:46 -0400 Received: from mail-qy0-f172.google.com ([209.85.216.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4a9j-0003q0-Ex for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:16:44 -0400 Received: by qyk32 with SMTP id 32so481623qyk.3 for <8890@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 08:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.210.67 with SMTP id gj3mr2221609qab.82.1316185918746; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 08:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.luannocracy.com (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com. [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id du5sm3279705qab.14.2011.09.16.08.11.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 16 Sep 2011 08:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.luannocracy.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id DD969F227F8; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:11:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:11:56 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:20:05 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/23.3 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) on Fri Sep 16 2011, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> "A few milliseconds" sounds negligible, but if it's done at every > >>> iteration of a loop whose body takes less than a millisecond to run >>> (we can do a lot of work in a millisecond on today's machines), then >>> it's a major slowdown. >> Then programmers who run those loops should update the progress less >> aggressively. Redisplay (and infrastructure in general) lack the >> context that would allow them to make good decisions as to when defer >> repeated display. Only the calling application can know that. > > Indeed. The main problem with changing `message' is that if it is > called too soon after the previous `message' we can't easily say "don't > display this one" since there may not be any subsequent message coming, > so we'd have to stash the last undisplayed message and then try and > figure out good places/times to cause them to be displayed. Well, the `obvious' good place/time is at next idle if no further messages have come along to stomp on the previous one. > So the general approach to fixing those problems is to say "use > progress-reporter-update" since this function has the advantage of > knowing that there will be a `progress-reporter-done' at some later > point, which allows it to skip a message without worries. Hm. So there *is* a builtin functionality for this... well, that's good. Sorry if I've wasted everyone's time on this. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 17 01:28:16 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Sep 2011 05:28:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4nRn-0000AT-Fl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 01:28:16 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4nRk-0000AL-Jy for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 01:28:13 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R4nN0-0001UE-6D; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:23:18 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Dave Abrahams Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs In-Reply-To: (Dave Abrahams's message of "Fri, 16 Sep 2011 11:11:56 -0400") Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:19:56 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAHlBMVEUhGR2GamsXDxFBNkNV R1MqISj///8IBQY3KzPUzM3UDWW3AAACVElEQVQ4jY3SzW+bMBQAcNfEIse5Q+1yQ2QIjgQbKbuV j645MqgF11wicaM0kXtMMGhcuUTNf7uElXYkmzQffPn5Pb9nP7D6xwL/Awe8/xscWmUe7C8ha30y vp5cQvvZSRvf3Z9D1t6nhASzwzkcMIwrn9ILaH01dn3fx+eA78BjMPfFe8VvkCkeEI5DUvcCbPhI 70Xq3vRw6I4sFSdk1ImZ23cC+PcOgiaExBGMvkPRQRvUEJHFn4B6kBCZpzXt6wX6GzS62I5Tdg6Y NqqI9Kas+kaA1oFC6xAV43T0Ab8vDyoTGvm6qar+S0DegV/VESxGzbSiPWxOkBHqRDARAhE6iDiB JpVCxIQM7sjm9C4XYRzHldND9ySZE3tayiQJVvMhWMAyDBVJNSVDsKE1NRBM9WAxhC1sCm5w1SJn qUI15lzlxa3wV0PQJS1KdHgrFkOAJoNeYhq8OYNI92QtMeWC3A/BU6G9gaNkTcEQyjBKuHH18ESf B7Aspxrg8jh6ttc9dOOztAxuyoYmc3nd99Htyy3nKOaqXBgvP/YfkPl2zhumoZ8Ff2l2H6CUiWZU loZgzk1BvvXQLjR4hE8aKPVjhOiGDpwSMaaGvFI2TQl43pAZnpwgUxghKpRneCNsZKiM7PBxhsCq 3VYYm1p0ggeUq6ye4WMIWL1O3SAwYblTnsU12CBWuhjjI3ypFr5QozDYPs09pCOmuXiC9yALdgtH kqIaW18DT9JRCN120u7B0vUZmEph2i7M2BsBwCBWTtDOAoNvxuBx8mrG9lXIQnYEfPMLW299fQNY b94AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Zola Jesus's _Stridulum EP_: "Run Me Out" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1R4nN0-0001UE-6D X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1316841798.35157@J+17kfcHg9ror3mR1IywyQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: Stefan Monnier , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Dave Abrahams writes: >> So the general approach to fixing those problems is to say "use >> progress-reporter-update" since this function has the advantage of >> knowing that there will be a `progress-reporter-done' at some later >> point, which allows it to skip a message without worries. > > Hm. So there *is* a builtin functionality for this... well, that's > good. Sorry if I've wasted everyone's time on this. I didn't know about progress-reporter, so my time wasn't wasted, at least. :-) But I wonder whether a simpler, more general function would be possible. If we're outputting stuff that's not a percentage, progress-reporter doesn't help much. `message' could work as follows: If it's been less than (say) 50th of a second since the previous message, then don't message anything. However, set up a timer in a 100th of a second's time to display that message -- if nothing else has been displayed in the mean time. The net effect will be that normal messaging (where it's been a long time since the previous message) is displayed as usual, but when we enter a "high-message" storm, we start skipping messages. But we always end up showing the final message, anyway. This would be a very simple interface for programmers to deal with (i.e., "don't worry about it"), and the user wouldn't notice anything in particular -- other than Emacs being faster in some situations. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 17 02:28:00 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Sep 2011 06:28:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4oNb-0004qA-Ti for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 02:28:00 -0400 Received: from mail-qy0-f172.google.com ([209.85.216.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4oNY-0004q1-Pi for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 02:27:57 -0400 Received: by qyk32 with SMTP id 32so996721qyk.3 for <8890@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 23:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.1.220 with SMTP id 28mr193796qcg.4.1316240587889; Fri, 16 Sep 2011 23:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.luannocracy.com (207-172-223-249.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com. [207.172.223.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fk5sm13196002qab.10.2011.09.16.23.23.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 16 Sep 2011 23:23:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pluto.luannocracy.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2E880F2D525; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 02:23:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Abrahams To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 02:23:05 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:19:56 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/23.3 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: Stefan Monnier , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) on Sat Sep 17 2011, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Dave Abrahams writes: > >>> So the general approach to fixing those problems is to say "use >>> progress-reporter-update" since this function has the advantage of >>> knowing that there will be a `progress-reporter-done' at some later >>> point, which allows it to skip a message without worries. >> >> Hm. So there *is* a builtin functionality for this... well, that's >> good. Sorry if I've wasted everyone's time on this. > > I didn't know about progress-reporter, so my time wasn't wasted, at > least. :-) > > But I wonder whether a simpler, more general function would be > possible. If we're outputting stuff that's not a percentage, > progress-reporter doesn't help much. > > `message' could work as follows: > > If it's been less than (say) 50th of a second since the previous > message, then don't message anything. However, set up a timer in a > 100th of a second's time to display that message -- if nothing else has > been displayed in the mean time. Technically, that 100th of a second could be arbitrarily long: ,----[ (info "(elisp)Timers") ] | Emacs cannot run timers at any arbitrary point in a Lisp program; it | can run them only when Emacs could accept output from a subprocess: | namely, while waiting or inside certain primitive functions such as | `sit-for' or `read-event' which _can_ wait. Therefore, a timer's | execution may be delayed if Emacs is busy. However, the time of | execution is very precise if Emacs is idle. `---- However, that might not be such a bad thing. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 17 04:32:06 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Sep 2011 08:32:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4qJi-0006x3-DD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 04:32:06 -0400 Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4qJg-0006wv-6K for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 04:32:05 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LRN00D00R9HYN00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 11:27:14 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.239.98]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LRN00DELRHDRXA0@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 11:27:14 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 11:25:10 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Message-id: <831uvfvamx.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: dave@boostpro.com, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen > Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:19:56 +0200 > Cc: 8890@debbugs.gnu.org > > `message' could work as follows: > > If it's been less than (say) 50th of a second since the previous > message, then don't message anything. However, set up a timer in a > 100th of a second's time to display that message -- if nothing else has > been displayed in the mean time. As I wrote earlier, `message' is the wrong place to fix this kind of problems: it doesn't have enough context to decide whether or not it's TRT to skip a message. A Lisp program that calls `message' could have good reasons to do this; not displaying those messages violates the principle of least surprise. The right place for applying this logic is in the Lisp program that calls `message'. > The net effect will be that normal messaging (where it's been a long > time since the previous message) is displayed as usual, but when we > enter a "high-message" storm, we start skipping messages. But we always > end up showing the final message, anyway. You are assuming that the final message is the only one that counts. Undoubtedly, there are use cases where this is correct. But there are others where it will be wrong, and `message' will not be able to second-guess its callers well enough to know which one is true. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 17 04:37:54 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Sep 2011 08:37:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4qPK-00075E-7B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 04:37:54 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4qPG-000754-Qv for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 04:37:53 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R4qKU-0006Sl-Ur; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:32:54 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs In-Reply-To: <831uvfvamx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 17 Sep 2011 11:25:10 +0300") Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:29:33 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> <831uvfvamx.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEW5AxS6Cxi4IzDg09S2 ABOkaW3fDOtFAAACeUlEQVQ4jUWUzXbqMAyE5dTs7TTZ24Hsi1XtHa67hxi//6vckQMtkHMgX/Qz Ixkq3hBROHH6Tuxl/yIyHi8quMi7064gKjAvMI4AZr4DCMDdkIljB+4Fvv5Aj1iCI0/z/XpN4jug DjYFkX6eSTSi/YKbCUTuACkB+DcgRDi6hUfYw3lZwoh2lz9Qiisbkc3ZKxhRg0LAD1vcmXm3uXht V0GOAIbKzK3xncqECNWx5SWU0XjHjbkKIeGhPCsw2Z2EGexe+vMRAmkJ5K09M4jwFU74DjLBk1Bs rcJSWezifwFcNxNXlMDbjrjbQR4UeFRA7coXBVFrZJiDvlikKgijZuoRHRgU2FsDuL0BjZWTJfS6 N4gPA4Kj6qAzSj4PgK7igC4EwHntJk3Q8QRIWAsIengKs/bD9AELf3CFtcGzK8AH+mF2A/P3P+Yx NJWZPF0+NBUHlMKdx3BRlSKI+HyBCCDOTE0zS0+lwFKAPIE3Z7UAqXQ5F3hH7gBWQS9uON04OcoH yCdMpUL55M+y8oLFVhDNZir67UttWnuYF/DDRnNbo5+oOGd13d2mXXmjPzBcgAlLDfUP9beZue3R m/GIoEE7J97XtqHA7jrIJapPzHduq/y0Ji2YRUGOKAtfvxAhq2DtnpsWz5tDkgWG846n9fPY+qCw ytyWFcahq5bg4H5ElEwwBY8iS4+Q/Zh5IZK6risODSKajvgX1Ap/rpKa6PiaHtoDfKKVepfnmk6a 6w0OgeyQJ91wf/fDCziMFUdG5bsZmbzpu1v0nI/RKUiBNvPedo2Ao/rfMjp89346Ighnxzko2nSL X0AHlW0pdppKKduGM42bdgL4D9VlsHWRW/uSAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Nadja's _Desire In Uneasiness_: "Sign-Expressions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1R4qKU-0006Sl-Ur X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1316853175.08735@MhnzJTBWdaA9P5BxkN77hA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: dave@boostpro.com, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Eli Zaretskii writes: > You are assuming that the final message is the only one that counts. > Undoubtedly, there are use cases where this is correct. But there are > others where it will be wrong, and `message' will not be able to > second-guess its callers well enough to know which one is true. If the messages arrive with a 50ms delay, there's no way anybody is going to see that message in any case. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 17 05:31:20 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Sep 2011 09:31:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4rF2-0003EQ-1K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 05:31:20 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4rEz-0003EJ-OM for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 05:31:18 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LRN00B00TTS5G00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 12:26:24 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.239.98]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LRN00ABAU7XJTB0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 12:26:22 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 12:24:19 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Message-id: <83vcsrttbw.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> <831uvfvamx.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: dave@boostpro.com, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen > Cc: dave@boostpro.com, 8890@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:29:33 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > You are assuming that the final message is the only one that counts. > > Undoubtedly, there are use cases where this is correct. But there are > > others where it will be wrong, and `message' will not be able to > > second-guess its callers well enough to know which one is true. > > If the messages arrive with a 50ms delay, there's no way anybody is > going to see that message in any case. You underestimate the speed of speed-reading ;-) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 17 08:15:21 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Sep 2011 12:15:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4tnk-0005YZ-C9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 08:15:20 -0400 Received: from smarty.dreamhost.com ([208.113.175.8]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R4tnh-0005YR-Gn for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 08:15:18 -0400 Received: from ps18281.dreamhostps.com (ps18281.dreamhost.com [69.163.218.105]) by smarty.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 570A76E8074; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 05:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA013451C494; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 05:10:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Juri Linkov To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs Organization: JURTA References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> <831uvfvamx.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 15:01:14 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:29:33 +0200") Message-ID: <87k497ifgt.fsf@mail.jurta.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: dave@boostpro.com, Eli Zaretskii , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) > If the messages arrive with a 50ms delay, there's no way anybody is > going to see that message in any case. There is a related problem. Some messages are too important to miss. So in some cases messages should be accumulated and displayed as one multi-line message. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 17 17:11:41 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Sep 2011 21:11:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R52An-0001hb-5B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:11:41 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183] helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R52Al-0001hU-0V for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:11:39 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EACkLdU5FpZ7x/2dsb2JhbABBp2F4gVMBAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSICrRohngEoE6ERA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.68,398,1312171200"; d="scan'208";a="136919980" Received: from 69-165-158-241.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.158.241]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 17 Sep 2011 17:06:46 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 33BBF591A6; Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:06:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs Message-ID: References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:06:46 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:19:56 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: Dave Abrahams , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) > If it's been less than (say) 50th of a second since the previous > message, then don't message anything. However, set up a timer in a > 100th of a second's time to display that message -- if nothing else has > been displayed in the mean time. That's much too tricky to implement. Making it reliable is going to be painful. Much easier to allow progress-reporter-update to output non-percentage messages (e.g. for bytecomp, the changing part is not a percentage but a function name). Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 18 02:59:09 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Sep 2011 06:59:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R5BLH-00079i-Sl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Sep 2011 02:59:08 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R5BL7-00079B-1K for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Sep 2011 02:59:02 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1R5BGF-0003Ur-FK; Sun, 18 Sep 2011 08:53:55 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:06:46 -0400") Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 08:50:24 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAGFBMVEX79O8QCQ9VMDEiEhgG AwmZaWTZuK/+//5vkQKHAAACPklEQVQ4jVWUPXPjIBCGtwmqCXJ/hsG9IHKvO/2AHJ5VrXEGrlWn v3/vghw7eOyx9/F+v4jiyxkGjdPPcugVRLHruQF7nCjv+AK4nmQtCxmeoXgpZckHDo9kAOU4vAhw EtVbJ2BVikiBMLs4OCSDnwBaiTY45ptkMHHo/1SPBfaOiEqqJV2Xuz4tuSYnISW72t3Js/b8Vxr0 cIEDV7sOydvENwHBl5VUTg2MnPyYuI4k+FWVe2zgndnbrwpMlCwHMJYv7KsHCvzc9+2rDVC/y2Bc aODfvu/3b+CZresBdOgEpHCWAZrz7zGhSfEYBdSqjNP+rN0tVA9zhX1X1umIMEuaQ2yhzK8KOGFV nPk8vQcrY9dBcu+bylgVTLrXNgmIF0lRfWQjMfaG+QwQ1mbfKWNdMkpMRTwWOsCmGjC+gYcDXN64 ZJYGbwLoG2yKLfaLTKh2pm5/Euw9c4GOPubpxWPfoAkl0bByAd1PlJPIaqL1xY4CAGzsq8drll2W bwcR6U+7NJNlUvAoj+z1HxLKid41RtI9osgHpHoA47tHEFGkKknaE3BMcduKKK88gYik9S0yOnID nNIBsJDW9wHGsj4qzbhcmV0FE11LK2vrVJ1hSwFwKp9dqxbKxtQtlNfrCtoOFYp6w9Jx3SBjadCP cj/U3S+kcKuDGeTWavqYjJSZY7xQHbk8ASZtqJ9BSsbvy0oZkSSFrmCejXf47qGShMcG/hNcpFZc P+EXQyW4Hi5Gnxw1u1zw4I8HB17M/wGPtxsUK9WJHwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Eurythmics's _1984 (For The Love Of Big Brother)_: "Sexcrime (Nineteen Eighty-Four)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1R5BGF-0003Ur-FK X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1316933636.06903@hyKmBnDw6+qIJpqDBcUhvQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: Dave Abrahams , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Stefan Monnier writes: >> If it's been less than (say) 50th of a second since the previous >> message, then don't message anything. However, set up a timer in a >> 100th of a second's time to display that message -- if nothing else has >> been displayed in the mean time. > > That's much too tricky to implement. Making it reliable is going to > be painful. Is it getting a timer to work that's tricky? > Much easier to allow progress-reporter-update to output non-percentage > messages (e.g. for bytecomp, the changing part is not a percentage but > a function name). If we're not going to make `message' just behave, then a function pair like `message-maybe' (which wouldn't output anything that arrives too fast) and a `message-flush' (to say that we're finished with the dubious messaging) might do the trick. That doesn't work very well with nested regions of dubious messaging, of course, but that's probably not very common. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 18 09:21:45 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Sep 2011 13:21:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R5HJY-0001Lp-3m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:21:45 -0400 Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181] helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R5HJV-0001Lf-48 for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:21:43 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EALzudU5FpZ7x/2dsb2JhbABBp0Z4gVMBAQQBViMFCws0EhQYDSSICrU3hngEoE6ERA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.68,400,1312171200"; d="scan'208";a="136971664" Received: from 69-165-158-241.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([69.165.158.241]) by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 18 Sep 2011 09:16:44 -0400 Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id BF76E591E3; Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:16:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs Message-ID: References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:16:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 18 Sep 2011 08:50:24 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: Dave Abrahams , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) >>> If it's been less than (say) 50th of a second since the previous >>> message, then don't message anything. However, set up a timer in a >>> 100th of a second's time to display that message -- if nothing else has >>> been displayed in the mean time. >> That's much too tricky to implement. Making it reliable is going to >> be painful. > Is it getting a timer to work that's tricky? Yes, getting the timer to work, canceling it when needed, etc... It's fiddly. Especially when compared to the simplicity of progress-reporter-update/progress-reporter-done. > If we're not going to make `message' just behave, then a function pair > like `message-maybe' (which wouldn't output anything that arrives too > fast) and a `message-flush' (to say that we're finished with the dubious > messaging) might do the trick. They exist and are called progress-reporter-update and progress-reporter-done respectively. They just need to be improved to allow non-numerical non-nil updates. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 21 15:05:20 2011 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2011 19:05:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R6S6h-0001S0-L8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:05:20 -0400 Received: from smtp.getmail.no ([84.208.15.66]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R6S6d-0001Rq-Of for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 15:05:17 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain Received: from get-mta-scan04.get.basefarm.net ([10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-out03.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LRV009GBZO93600@get-mta-out03.get.basefarm.net> for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:04:57 +0200 (MEST) Received: from get-mta-scan04.get.basefarm.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Email Security Appliance) with SMTP id 4D7EB1EEF653_E7A3559B for <8890@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:04:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.getmail.no (unknown [10.5.16.4]) by get-mta-scan04.get.basefarm.net (Sophos Email Appliance) with ESMTP id 3201C1EEF540_E7A3559F for <8890@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:04:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from stories.gnus.org ([84.215.51.58]) by get-mta-in02.get.basefarm.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-0.04 64bit (built Jun 20 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LRV0001HZO81Q20@get-mta-in02.get.basefarm.net> for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:04:57 +0200 (MEST) From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs In-reply-to: Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:01:28 +0200 Message-id: References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEUEAQBROzUNCAaOdGOu noza1sHh7llOAAACV0lEQVQ4jU2UQWLjIAxFZdIDDMbdg5zZDwYfIAYfIDHc/yr9Eum0LJwE8fjS lxyiX2tKtSYb8Cwznb23ruuij95qxbeW8kH2Z9Eq8VYynocSKe2yQ397V6IOwqWUrCt5o1vX3ToI nE8JJ1tTDbmhWgdC9lM+e5vprklUEQFRoJBOzeoup3svztoNGnIcO1GJlmp7E70qPwit40qi4TT3 Gq0dhKbf20ZZz39raFYif5DkA2+sEB+ISqk9FxDnOQzqT/qoKe7fXmVsS8opRdG49NIMjaWOJcQd nxLAORD4ocVHS5+jQCkGBVbEJVofZkc+YkKxadgu2yXFG4RLnKMNV5opIFG5CcSaa06WZzIhv4So QyY6EHXmaHkBwYJos6LLonzWyGF/0q7DoOL8KXVqUVY0GCuoJWFXo3ABCPFqjM8Tw4BW5MIsp0Rh Zl00VR9qjmQWnMp1WKjExT7nB5ED4cSMQdH6cEdGpuazvxB4OydEy1dFbSaE34THiGYdCr5jGKS2 rIxkJXLzNBvPIi4FYTEtve3demJ5J3gYgvhzggnuyT+vi5enIdx0Xu5FwY+fdHukvEVH0sBHPczq jdfAKgbWQrRfS6v/2L4vM8VGu+B9ouW4l3Pj7X2zyY96YpLxjQF3O39rBHQZkJy7oaCX3OQRYKNh WX4tyW3Mft0YlgzbNRIs2prQDx5TIh1Pqukl6NdoZsrqBxAtk9kk66c/t0MJZeKIrMGz8dM8TFTG apqwdkZ62/+/DCcjQ8aYzSBzo0Qp2qsU2UMjEgKTpkL8nhKWVrC2g78A1IjJ0jxbx2cAAAAASUVO RK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Siouxsie and the Banshees's _Kaleidoscope_: "Tenant" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: Dave Abrahams , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Stefan Monnier writes: > Yes, getting the timer to work, canceling it when needed, etc... It's > fiddly. Especially when compared to the simplicity of > progress-reporter-update/progress-reporter-done. If it's possible to get the timer to work, then I think the rest is just a small matter of programming. While the process-reporter interface is very clean and nice, it does require that you pass around the reporter object, which can be fiddly, too -- but it's a fiddliness that all the users of the code have to relate to. Whereas a hysteresis-safe `message' would just work without anybody thinking about it. I mean, if we could get it to work. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 26 09:20:55 2022 Received: (at 8890) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Apr 2022 13:20:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37665 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njL7f-00021T-0B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:20:55 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:60476) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njL7d-00021E-Ov for 8890@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:20:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=p+fArzb9Z8sMmolQmHtYHu9H1jFDtNl7sfllk59FnLE=; b=CdjLFhcXCOwwUholxSIHaBiKHG o7JXiXUg/3t6Qe8gEt+Bvc8FBVpCu0wCfuvY9M8GgtrCJX4q4DJgyF4IisRekg0co8evXG24LpjAS +g9u8RKhrv3I8NyDs5sfhxPOm1fO4gyedJRzlrvsEpwIMBHLUhgiNq8lJWOVr6dIc9O8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1njL7U-0000p2-IH; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:20:46 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Dave Abrahams Subject: Re: bug#8890: 23.3; message writing slows emacs References: <83ehzgvbwj.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Coffins's _Defilements_: "In Bloody Sewage" Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:20:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:19:56 +0200") Message-ID: <87wnfcf0b7.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > But I wonder whether a simpler, more general function would be > possible. If we're outputting stuff that's not a percentage, > progress-reporter doesn't help much. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8890 Cc: Stefan Monnier , 8890@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: > But I wonder whether a simpler, more general function would be > possible. If we're outputting stuff that's not a percentage, > progress-reporter doesn't help much. This has basically been implemented as `with-delayed-message' in Emacs 29, so I'm therefore closing this bug report. (Although we haven't changed some of the more message-happy things in Emacs to use the macro, but we should.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 26 09:21:01 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Apr 2022 13:21:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37668 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njL7l-00021o-74 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:21:01 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:60492) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njL7k-00021S-1S for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:21:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=VAYMVhuqOutAaTrwCEOTluaEn33XfgYfLs2zVl7yXMs=; b=bVZlFSLs+X/ZBlT/9ZOHZkKnUA vRQD0rtGXLaINg/JQ7Zp9pKiyVnvjJls3BFg8gLsFdv3gG+zQFm4OFunJUFZuQwKBbOK19Ihu/dK2 jSdOFU1AbLtS+po1Y5fEFTzMRynPZEb95ZOXSLVadzAsyJLQwLC/fUkpu1XHSd/bR/WY=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1njL7c-0000pD-Bl for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:20:54 +0200 Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:20:51 +0200 Message-Id: <87v8uwf0b0.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #8890 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 8890 29.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 8890 29.1 quit From unknown Tue Jul 08 15:34:36 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 11:24:09 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator