GNU bug report logs - #8569
24.0.50; overlay arrow

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 24.0.50; overlay arrow
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 14:56:51 -0700

(elisp) Overlay Arrow:
 
"The "overlay arrow" is useful for directing the user's attention to a
particular line in a buffer.  For example, in the modes used for
interface to debuggers, the overlay arrow indicates the line of code
about to be executed.  This feature has nothing to do with "overlays"
(*note Overlays::)."
 
The overlay arrow is not something used all over the place in Emacs code
and doc.  We should change the name now to avoid this confusion.
 
Possible renamings:
 
overlay-arrow-string        -> line-indicator-string
overlay-arrow-position      -> line-indicator-position
overlay-arrow-variable-list -> line-indicator-position-variables
 
This confusion is all the worse because this node _does_ mix up the two,
talking about both: "You can do a similar job by creating an overlay
with a `before-string' property.  *Note Overlay Properties::."
 

In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2011-04-25 on 3249CTO
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.5) --no-opt --cflags
-Ic:/imagesupport/include'
 

Message #8 received at 8569 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 8569 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#8569: 24.0.50; overlay arrow
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 20:43:33 +0300

> From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 14:56:51 -0700
> 
> The overlay arrow is not something used all over the place in Emacs code
> and doc.  We should change the name now to avoid this confusion.

I'm afraid it's way too late.  Most of these variables (the first two)
exist since 1988, when this feature was first introduced into Emacs.
Of course, back then we didn't have the fringes, so the arrow was
displayed like it is now on text terminals (try "emacs -nw").

Message #11 received at 8569 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 8569 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#8569: 24.0.50; overlay arrow
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 10:53:17 -0700

> > The overlay arrow is not something used all over the place 
> > in Emacs code and doc.  We should change the name now to
> > avoid this confusion.
> 
> I'm afraid it's way too late.  Most of these variables (the first two)
> exist since 1988, when this feature was first introduced into Emacs.
> Of course, back then we didn't have the fringes, so the arrow was
> displayed like it is now on text terminals (try "emacs -nw").

I'm well aware that it was introduced in the 80s.  I used it back then.

It should have been renamed when overlays were introduced, but it wasn't.

It should be renamed now.  It is not used that much, and the renaming would not
have much, if any, negative impact.

Message #14 received at 8569 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 8569 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#8569: 24.0.50; overlay arrow
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 11:17:19 -0700

> > > The overlay arrow is not something used all over the place 
> > > in Emacs code and doc.  We should change the name now to
> > > avoid this confusion.
> > 
> > I'm afraid it's way too late.  Most of these variables (the 
> first two)
> > exist since 1988, when this feature was first introduced into Emacs.
> > Of course, back then we didn't have the fringes, so the arrow was
> > displayed like it is now on text terminals (try "emacs -nw").
> 
> I'm well aware that it was introduced in the 80s.  I used it 
> back then.
> 
> It should have been renamed when overlays were introduced, 
> but it wasn't.
> 
> It should be renamed now.  It is not used that much, and the 
> renaming would not
> have much, if any, negative impact.

BTW, if you so choose (e.g. for the convenience of old-timers or something), you
can always just leave the old names there, using aliases, and let them remain
deprecated forever without actually removing them.

What's important is to remove the misleading names from the doc so that users
will not get confused.

Message #21 received at 8569 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 8569 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#8569: 24.0.50; overlay arrow
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 15:20:16 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> I'm afraid it's way too late.  Most of these variables (the first two)
> exist since 1988, when this feature was first introduced into Emacs.
> Of course, back then we didn't have the fringes, so the arrow was
> displayed like it is now on text terminals (try "emacs -nw").

I agree.  I think changing this would be of little practical benefit,
and would break third-party usages.  So I'm closing this report.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Message #24 received at 8569 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" <larsi <at> gnus.org>,
	"'Eli Zaretskii'" <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 8569 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#8569: 24.0.50; overlay arrow
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:07:55 -0700

> I think changing this would be of little practical benefit,
> and would break third-party usages.  So I'm closing this report.

As I said, you can keep the old names as well (aliased) and just not advertise
them or use them anymore.  No third-party code would break in that case.

These misleading names are a source of confusion, especially for new users.
There is _zero_ reason that they should have `overlay' in the name.  I hear no
one saying that the names are anything other than misleading.

One thing important about Emacs is that you can pretty easily find functions,
variables, etc. related to a given object type by just using `apropos'.  Someone
looking for overlay stuff should not be finding these names.

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