From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 08 13:30:33 2011 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Apr 2011 17:30:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q8FVx-0005ff-5u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 13:30:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q8FVu-0005fN-6C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 13:30:30 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q8FVo-0003p0-8p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 13:30:24 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:33019) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q8FVo-0003ow-1u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 13:30:24 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=47181 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Q8FVm-00073Y-UD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 13:30:23 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q8FVm-0003oQ-0u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 13:30:22 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:30993) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q8FVl-0003oD-RV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 13:30:21 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id p38HUIct026294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2011 17:30:20 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id p38HUHwW003321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2011 17:30:17 GMT Received: from abhmt013.oracle.com (abhmt013.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p38HUH0f020610 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2011 12:30:17 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.62.148) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 10:30:16 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 24.0.50; doc of `pp' and related functions Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 10:30:16 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acv2Ep/9kCoAa9Q/TvC/GDPQ1S24Kw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-Source-IP: acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090206.4D9F462A.002B:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 199.232.76.165 X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------) 1. Please add to the doc (e.g. doc strings) for `pp' and similar functions a mention of the various `print-*' variables that are respected and (if any) not respected. In particular, `print-circle'. 2. Please document `pp' and its relatives in the Elisp manual, and index them. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2011-04-04 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.5) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/imagesupport/include' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 02 09:08:46 2011 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2011 13:08:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QczwE-0002uj-CR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 09:08:46 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QczwB-0002uW-EN for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 09:08:44 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qczw0-0004y2-Eb for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:08:32 +0200 Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:08:31 +0200 Message-Id: To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #8452 X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qczw0-0004y2-Eb X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310216912.51748@gsxU8Fe03UZSPHvOb/ORXQ X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) tags 8452 fixed close 8452 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 02 09:17:58 2011 Received: (at 8452) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2011 13:17:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qd057-0003yn-WB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 09:17:58 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qd055-0003yQ-If for 8452@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 09:17:56 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qd04u-00059x-5i; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:17:44 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#8452: 24.0.50; doc of `pp' and related functions In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 8 Apr 2011 10:30:16 -0700") Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:08:27 +0200 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEWIYGFdNDm2ranh49uo hYIQBgeffCkgAAACUElEQVQ4jU2SzXbjIAyFhUP2qIn3LtB9Cu6eEHlft8P7v8pc4Z8ZzvEx8HF1 kQT5kCRk76fWR3hEqcOUPHkvwUuaxg38PPxQpyklwv7jSelj22/rI0n1qhhCCkOuyw6aR9iQA0Il c5nL7QQhYwDR9KyzsXn8B9KQc4o01fk55HSCt5BjBKVQjIH2BH8Ix6ZXJs+DBr3qjZhbu6RJcoZH 7m5JgRMDgMX8giJvQ4EVM7ZXX1qhnA6wSjxB9hRi1cl7a99SeM8DgxLujMXc1tWadeR8gHcPnc+p MVlnePNMPpAvNiAnPzqpjviStFSqqEg0ItRivVjh26aAOdmQovX500ZPZbyhaSIT4bqR4CD1YUWI xpdFO1RCqNc0aOEcADPipxQlEqlVkDmkQmI4pipz9EiatjtoP2F9n7M/8tgnyV+kmMtnOBPc/0m+ ZzGJ306wRcIV213suJ6EtCA+isi10bUx8+tQ+FiIALTtbxNI3c0jsUNyol1ckQnzPXRQ2BVRkId5 dOSUgVAko4FEwvyLJYBhdqGDopHk9XnDayIDkcHLoWLJ6H69fIU8G5VA4wLp6KEuHzk/ABDaOK47 gP0Ae+lLILb4WSvqosW5U1EXJh476O5PVObuNqCvAkC6yQKLu0MInD9AT3B55S+9Uges4E6ioZZb Xoj/B872BJefPOIQgNGC6USoK9bcCh1gi9kV1za14nZg+sR1cm1j2zzMum6hDtCaznF+bQp465Ms HbCC/um8F/F5Kpwt2GTUyx6gjNpAVycFa09+V4x6Eq/Y8F9KELP1uqDPowAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Prince's _Controversy_: "Sexuality" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110702:8452@debbugs.gnu.org::Bq4YJGftW7fqPkZ5:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000OoJ7 X-Hashcash: 1:23:110702:drew.adams@oracle.com::p4+O01wuxWyqdnQr:0000000000000000000000000000000000000001JSgt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qd04u-00059x-5i X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310217464.27712@8I7EfXrv1Hy1rsQz05upNA X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8452 Cc: 8452@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > 1. Please add to the doc (e.g. doc strings) for `pp' and similar > functions a mention of the various `print-*' variables that are > respected and (if any) not respected. In particular, `print-circle'. I've had a look at the source code, and as far as I can see, it doesn't handle any of the `print-*' variables explicitly, but leaves that to princ and friends. So I don't think there's anything there much to add to the doc strings. > 2. Please document `pp' and its relatives in the Elisp manual, and index > them. Ok; done. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 02 11:10:11 2011 Received: (at 8452) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2011 15:10:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qd1pi-0004T4-I8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 11:10:10 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qd1pg-0004Sl-NB for 8452@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 11:10:09 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet21.oracle.com (rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p62FA0JB004761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Jul 2011 15:10:02 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by rtcsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p62F9xtC023669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 2 Jul 2011 15:09:59 GMT Received: from abhmt107.oracle.com (abhmt107.oracle.com [141.146.116.59]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p62F9rrV007789; Sat, 2 Jul 2011 10:09:53 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.63.244) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 08:09:53 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" References: Subject: RE: bug#8452: 24.0.50; doc of `pp' and related functions Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 08:09:44 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acw4unZ+xHrOa5E2RkKEiVaZK9V8FgAC3K/g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4E0F34CA.005B:SCFSTAT5015188, ss=1, re=-4.000, fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.5 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8452 Cc: 8452@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.5 (----) > > 1. Please add to the doc (e.g. doc strings) for `pp' and similar > > functions a mention of the various `print-*' variables that are > > respected and (if any) not respected. In particular, > > `print-circle'. > > I've had a look at the source code, and as far as I can see, > it doesn't handle any of the `print-*' variables explicitly, > but leaves that to princ and friends. > > So I don't think there's anything there much to add to the > doc strings. 1. Users should not need to dive into the `pp' source code to discover its behavior. The doc string should describe that. And its behavior is designed to change with these vars. Those behavior differences need to be pointed out. Those print-* vars are specifically designed to influence the behavior of the print functions, and the doc for the print functions should call that out. It's about the behavior ("interface") of the function, not its implementation. 2. That `pp' does its work using `princ' etc. is irrelevant to describing its behavior. Unless, that is, we must punt for some reason and explicitly say "see XYZ for how `pp' behaves with respect to variables A, B, C". If you do that, OK. But that would likely be more long-winded than to just say directly that the behavior of `pp' depends on those vars. In general, it is better for the behavior of `pp' to be called out in its own doc, rather than to refer to the behavior of other functions. It's about user convenience - why add indirection? 3. This bug is not just about `pp'. It is about (the doc of) "`pp' and similar functions": pp pp-buffer pp-display-expression pp-eval-expression pp-eval-last-sexp pp-last-sexp pp-macroexpand-expression pp-macroexpand-last-sexp pp-to-string Some of these are even commands. Users should especially know about the command behaviors wrt the print-* vars. Variable `print-circle' is even `user-variable-p': a variable intended to be modified by users. > > 2. Please document `pp' and its relatives in the Elisp > > manual, and index them. > > Ok; done. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 02 11:48:48 2011 Received: (at 8452) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2011 15:48:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qd2R5-0007Cz-MA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 11:48:48 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qd2R3-0007Cg-MO for 8452@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 11:48:46 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qd2Qs-0007jC-Ln; Sat, 02 Jul 2011 17:48:34 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#8452: 24.0.50; doc of `pp' and related functions In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 2 Jul 2011 08:09:44 -0700") Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 17:48:30 +0200 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAFVBMVEUYAgdwNSj7v2RXIRsz Dw69ZTUiBgs+heLhAAACUklEQVQ4jV2Ty46jMBBFS+oW6/EYsg8j9rHsZN3INbWHjPe0sPz/n9C3 iqQf4wUCDvW6tyDnfGKWRhu1tlVplbkKMwFEFq6z7CeidxFpOLWS8y5mqfvt5PwbpTz/ak0Z+eic E6m4usvrKTjX9ssBgvP+tKcU2+UlxhQk1tvWyIWgqN0azT3htOZ92wjA+ZykcaNEBl6yT9SRd4vP 1gk9z+57ADcMnnWQ7RPQa3zbaMAg/4MWekHEooC/paJuzwA4pskBOg2gl9g+wbdM3UbdASI3oZ/n CaThs5xysh46G1ABnhvVoQxLNCAwQQGEx9O8jlO5a7FO4z9BvY7jON3TZtVJ/VATqcsKximhDSRu D3Dpah4M9OiDv8Bb41hWy6WgVUwePRzZOMUyDQiI0AArgWWIMbooKc5juY7l7J4A/gUXa4rXcS1r KcvtC6Dd2huYxlISAIqgeHAhGZjWqaxTMhMqtgQhB0BP0zr2LNXWJ6G41JuBcSwA7QDa1a3KAcoP 4NypSg4632LAdiYGjN4DuGKSTF5tZgUqSZM8DKsR2Kn9kmZyXvgJSmbrl7yJKJX/lnVVdQ8gNiD+ g5rmqUDfhQ/AFC0XwA5jS+k5yzegqaomKqjW9H0lDB4WL7uBsdz5cSixaoXw2SLuVqIqQK7ENfHV QHzUFtIu8HOnaM0uMSf2B8ClZhfDZGAJkYtaQsgnYVgOpc7DcndlWgygO7w/9DiXctf1QgjBeF3a 9Qmcgn8AkF6dWB/+LbZ2fwxg/RVMqP0bSMFZKsD7cFgEBY843Ev9AEeN5tNPmQbbAAAAAElFTkSu QmCC X-Now-Playing: Current 93's _All the Pretty Little Horses_: "Calling for Vanished Faces II." X-Hashcash: 1:23:110702:drew.adams@oracle.com::P7QAnP9Du9RmMdPS:000000000000000000000000000000000000000083mk X-Hashcash: 1:23:110702:8452@debbugs.gnu.org::WugRwPdLhPNeQRyw:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000OZnk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qd2Qs-0007jC-Ln X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi@gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310226514.76558@3ZmucuYY9XvKRc75jqVE0A X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 8452 Cc: 8452@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.9 (--) "Drew Adams" writes: > 1. Users should not need to dive into the `pp' source code to discover > its behavior. The doc string should describe that. And its behavior > is designed to change with these vars. Those behavior differences > need to be pointed out. Not even `princ' describes what is does with the myriad `print-*' variables. I think the assumption is that someone who uses the Lisp printer are aware that these things exist, and repeating it in all the print-related function is unnecessary. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/ From unknown Mon Aug 18 00:08:26 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator