GNU bug report logs - #8452
24.0.50; doc of `pp' and related functions

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 24.0.50; doc of `pp' and related functions
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 10:30:16 -0700

1. Please add to the doc (e.g. doc strings) for `pp' and similar
functions a mention of the various `print-*' variables that are
respected and (if any) not respected.  In particular, `print-circle'.
 
2. Please document `pp' and its relatives in the Elisp manual, and index
them.
 

In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2011-04-04 on 3249CTO
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.5) --no-opt --cflags
-Ic:/imagesupport/include'
 

Message #12 received at 8452 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 8452 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#8452: 24.0.50; doc of `pp' and related functions
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 15:08:27 +0200

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> 1. Please add to the doc (e.g. doc strings) for `pp' and similar
> functions a mention of the various `print-*' variables that are
> respected and (if any) not respected.  In particular, `print-circle'.

I've had a look at the source code, and as far as I can see, it doesn't
handle any of the `print-*' variables explicitly, but leaves that to
princ and friends.

So I don't think there's anything there much to add to the doc strings.

> 2. Please document `pp' and its relatives in the Elisp manual, and index
> them.

Ok; done.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Message #15 received at 8452 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 8452 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#8452: 24.0.50; doc of `pp' and related functions
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 08:09:44 -0700

> > 1. Please add to the doc (e.g. doc strings) for `pp' and similar
> > functions a mention of the various `print-*' variables that are
> > respected and (if any) not respected.  In particular, 
> > `print-circle'.
> 
> I've had a look at the source code, and as far as I can see, 
> it doesn't handle any of the `print-*' variables explicitly,
> but leaves that to princ and friends.
> 
> So I don't think there's anything there much to add to the 
> doc strings.

1. Users should not need to dive into the `pp' source code to discover its
behavior.  The doc string should describe that.  And its behavior is designed to
change with these vars.  Those behavior differences need to be pointed out.

Those print-* vars are specifically designed to influence the behavior of the
print functions, and the doc for the print functions should call that out.  It's
about the behavior ("interface") of the function, not its implementation.


2. That `pp' does its work using `princ' etc. is irrelevant to describing its
behavior.  Unless, that is, we must punt for some reason and explicitly say "see
XYZ for how `pp' behaves with respect to variables A, B, C".

If you do that, OK.  But that would likely be more long-winded than to just say
directly that the behavior of `pp' depends on those vars.  In general, it is
better for the behavior of `pp' to be called out in its own doc, rather than to
refer to the behavior of other functions.  It's about user convenience - why add
indirection?


3. This bug is not just about `pp'.  It is about (the doc of)
"`pp' and similar functions":  

pp
pp-buffer
pp-display-expression
pp-eval-expression 
pp-eval-last-sexp
pp-last-sexp
pp-macroexpand-expression 
pp-macroexpand-last-sexp
pp-to-string

Some of these are even commands.  Users should especially know about the command
behaviors wrt the print-* vars.  Variable `print-circle' is even
`user-variable-p': a variable intended to be modified by users.


> > 2. Please document `pp' and its relatives in the Elisp 
> >    manual, and index them.
> 
> Ok; done.

Thanks.

Message #18 received at 8452 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 8452 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#8452: 24.0.50; doc of `pp' and related functions
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 17:48:30 +0200

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> 1. Users should not need to dive into the `pp' source code to discover
> its behavior.  The doc string should describe that.  And its behavior
> is designed to change with these vars.  Those behavior differences
> need to be pointed out.

Not even `princ' describes what is does with the myriad `print-*'
variables.  I think the assumption is that someone who uses the Lisp
printer are aware that these things exist, and repeating it in all the
print-related function is unnecessary.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

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