From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:46:10 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#8287: 24.0.50; regexp-builder, rx, sregex: (a) in manuals, (b) in action Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 8287 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 8287@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.130047209124664 (code B ref -1); Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:15:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Mar 2011 18:14:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q0eCI-0006Pl-Ng for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:14:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q0eCG-0006Pa-Hj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:14:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q0eCA-00014c-G8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:14:43 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:60480) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q0eCA-00014N-3A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:14:42 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=33881 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Q0eC8-0006r3-Fq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:14:41 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q0eBu-00012C-5W for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:14:28 -0400 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:63942) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q0eBu-00011u-0R for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:14:26 -0400 Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id p2IIENIe023700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:14:24 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id p2IIEMxT020084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:14:23 GMT Received: from abhmt008.oracle.com (abhmt008.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p2IIEMft020181 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:14:22 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.39.7) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 11:14:22 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 11:14:23 -0700 Message-ID: <849EF5CA70DA4BC794B0D9A0DFA203DD@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcvlmE7You9BFwNARe61o2/ZPHh9EA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-Source-IP: acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4D83A0FF.0118,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 199.232.76.165 X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) 1. Only `re-builder', not `regexp-builder', is indexed in the Elisp manual. This is incomplete and backwards - users will look for "regexp" before "re-" when looking for help with regexps. 2. There is no explanation of this command in either manual. Node `Regular Expressions' of Elisp just mentions it in passing, with no help. It says that the command provides "a convenient interface" without providing any explanation of that nifty interface or how to use it. The Emacs manual doesn't even mention the command. See also bug #8286, about the hopeless doc string. 3. There is no real doc for `re-builder' - no help for users, including after they actually try to use the command. `C-h m' in buffer *RE-Builder* simply lists the key bindings. To understand anything about this "convenient interface" users will need to drill down from the list of key bindings and check the doc for each command. And even then they will discover nothing of any real help AFAICT. If this is a "builder" with a "convenient interface", then it should assist users. 4. The comments in `re-builder.el' are of some help. But even there things are unclear and incomplete. It refers to "`rx' syntax". What is that? Try to find `rx' in the index of either Emacs manual - nothing. 5. Consider mentioning `rx' features in the manuals. The only mention is of Gerd's contribution of `rx.el' to Emacs. Sheesh. 6. In the Commentary of `rx.el' we find mention of "the Sregex package coming with Emacs" and a comparison of rx with sregex. Again, there is nothing about sregex in either manual, except for an acknowledgement to Bob Glickstein for contributing it. Sheesh. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2011-03-07 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.5) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/imagesupport/include' From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:46:10 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#8287: 24.0.50; regexp-builder, rx, sregex: (a) in manuals, (b) in action Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:23:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 8287 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "Drew Adams" Cc: 8287@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 8287-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B8287.146183892230601 (code B ref 8287); Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:23:02 +0000 Received: (at 8287) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2016 10:22:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51236 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avj57-0007xV-Um for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 06:22:02 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:34488) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avj56-0007x7-HF for 8287@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 06:22:00 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avj54-0000MF-04; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:21:59 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <849EF5CA70DA4BC794B0D9A0DFA203DD@us.oracle.com> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:21:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: <849EF5CA70DA4BC794B0D9A0DFA203DD@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 18 Mar 2011 11:14:23 -0700") Message-ID: <877ffiqbi3.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) "Drew Adams" writes: > 1. Only `re-builder', not `regexp-builder', is indexed in the Elisp > manual. This is incomplete and backwards - users will look for "regexp" > before "re-" when looking for help with regexps. There's already a @cindex to "regexp" in the same node, so that seems unnecessary. > 2. There is no explanation of this command in either manual. Node > `Regular Expressions' of Elisp just mentions it in passing, with no > help. It says that the command provides "a convenient interface" > without providing any explanation of that nifty interface or how to use > it. The Emacs manual doesn't even mention the command. @findex re-builder @cindex regular expressions, developing For interactive development of regular expressions, you can use the @kbd{M-x re-builder} command. It provides a convenient interface for creating regular expressions, by giving immediate visual feedback in a separate buffer. As you edit the regexp, all its matches in the target buffer are highlighted. Each parenthesized sub-expression of the regexp is shown in a distinct face, which makes it easier to verify even very complex regexps. Looks fine now, at least... > See also bug #8286, about the hopeless doc string. > > 3. There is no real doc for `re-builder' - no help for users, including > after they actually try to use the command. `C-h m' in buffer > *RE-Builder* simply lists the key bindings. To understand anything > about this "convenient interface" users will need to drill down from the > list of key bindings and check the doc for each command. And even then > they will discover nothing of any real help AFAICT. Chong fixed this in 2011, apparently. Closing. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Apr 28 06:22:08 2016 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2016 10:22:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51239 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avj5E-0007xp-6I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 06:22:08 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:34496) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avj5C-0007xh-CG for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 06:22:06 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=mouse) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1avj5A-0000NE-7n for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:22:05 +0200 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:22:04 +0200 Message-Id: <8760v2qbhv.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #8287 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) close 8287