From drew.adams@oracle.com Fri Aug 29 08:05:14 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2008 15:05:14 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7TF59sj017775 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:05:11 -0700 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:53462 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ5Vh-0003Hd-St for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:03:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ5St-0006vL-Rw for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:00:46 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:25072) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ5St-0006ux-FU for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:00:43 -0400 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m7TF0egX007794 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:00:40 -0600 Received: from acsmt706.oracle.com (acsmt706.oracle.com [141.146.40.84]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m7TF0dZS016207 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:00:39 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:00:39 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:00:39 -0700 Message-ID: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AckJ5/+07jmMEz9CQQKRATBvd9EG0w== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 emacs -Q Dired on a subdir of, say, c:\ .. has the owner and group listed as "Everyone". What's that about? If I click `..', I see that none of the files or subdirectories in c:\ belong to "Everyone" (in my case). That "Everyone" artifact is incorrect and misleading. In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2008-08-01 on LENNART-69DE564 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/g/include -fno-crossjumping' From eliz@gnu.org Fri Aug 29 10:46:39 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2008 17:46:39 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7THkY1C006117 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:46:35 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:53761) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ81u-0007dG-Bz for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:45:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ83K-0003sE-Oi for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:46:34 -0400 Received: from mtaout7.012.net.il ([84.95.2.19]:21645) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ83K-0003ri-CK; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:46:30 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i-mtaout7.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0K6D00MFWIPL0H20@i-mtaout7.012.net.il>; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:46:34 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:46:00 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? In-reply-to: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams , 819@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Reply-to: Eli Zaretskii Message-id: References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (1203?) > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:00:39 -0700 > Cc: > > emacs -Q > Dired on a subdir of, say, c:\ > > .. has the owner and group listed as "Everyone". What's that about? If > I click `..', I see that none of the files or subdirectories in c:\ > belong to "Everyone" (in my case). That "Everyone" artifact is > incorrect and misleading. You interpret "Everyone" too literally. "Everyone" is the Windows way of attributing a file's ownership to no one in particular. This is what you will see for each and every file on a FAT32 volume, because FAT32 does not support file security, only NTFS does. So "Everyone" is not an artefact, it's what Windows reports to Emacs as the owner and primary group of a file or directory. That said, I cannot reproduce this on my machine, with NTFS filesystem: each file and directory I see belongs to some valid user or group, and in particular all subdirectories of c:\ have "Administrators" as the owner of ".." and "SYSTEM" as its primary group. That is what I'd expect on a typical Windows machine with NTFS filesystem. So what you see is some strange peculiarity of your system, I think. Perhaps because you upgraded your filesystem from FAT32? In any case, "Everyone" is a legitimate value of a Windows owner and/or primary group of a file. From eliz@gnu.org Fri Aug 29 11:01:18 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_NIX1 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 819-done) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2008 18:01:19 +0000 Received: from mtaout3.012.net.il (mtaout3.012.net.il [84.95.2.7]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7TI1FKI010906 for <819-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:01:16 -0700 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i_mtaout3.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0K6D00I9MJEXDQD0@i_mtaout3.012.net.il> for 819-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:01:46 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:01:12 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: 819-done@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-to: Eli Zaretskii Message-id: This is not a bug, but expected behavior, for files/directories for which NTFS file security records specify "Everyone" (numerical value of zero) for the file's owner or primary group. From drew.adams@oracle.com Fri Aug 29 11:13:12 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2008 18:13:12 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7TID9On015072 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:13:10 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZ8T6-00054r-Iy for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:13:08 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZ8T5-00054f-QI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:13:08 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=53115 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZ8T5-00054b-Li for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:13:07 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:45953) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ8Sw-0003f7-4T; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:12:58 -0400 Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.110]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m7TICakS030973; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:12:36 -0600 Received: from acsmt703.oracle.com (acsmt703.oracle.com [141.146.40.81]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m7TICZ6q012527; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:12:36 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:12:35 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" , <819@debbugs.gnu.org> Cc: , References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:12:35 -0700 Message-ID: <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AckJ/2aibGYuIPMuSzC2WrR8QSmIygAAXMkg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > > emacs -Q > > Dired on a subdir of, say, c:\ > > > > .. has the owner and group listed as "Everyone". What's > > that about? If I click `..', I see that none of the files or > > subdirectories in c:\ belong to "Everyone" (in my case). That > > "Everyone" artifact is incorrect and misleading. > > You interpret "Everyone" too literally. "Everyone" is the Windows way > of attributing a file's ownership to no one in particular. This is > what you will see for each and every file on a FAT32 volume, because > FAT32 does not support file security, only NTFS does. > > So "Everyone" is not an artefact, it's what Windows reports to Emacs > as the owner and primary group of a file or directory. In Emacs 23, it's not what I see in Dired for the other files and directories, besides `..'. In my case, I see my user name as the owner for each entry except `..', and I see `None' as the group for each entry except `..'. In Emacs 22, I see my user name as the owner for each entry (including `..') and `root' as the group for each entry (including `..'). In Emacs 20, I see my user name as the owner for each entry (including `..') and `5' as the group for each entry (including `..'). IOW, before Emacs 23, (1) `..' was not treated differently from other entries and (2) the group was not `None'. Change #2 seems OK to me, but I don't understand #1: Why should `..' be different? And why should following the link `..' show something different from what was shown for `..' in the subdir? The properties of a given directory should always appear the same, regardless of where you are viewing them. > That said, I cannot reproduce this on my machine, with NTFS > filesystem: each file and directory I see belongs to some valid user > or group, and in particular all subdirectories of c:\ have > "Administrators" as the owner of ".." and "SYSTEM" as its primary > group. That is what I'd expect on a typical Windows machine with NTFS > filesystem. My hard disk is formatted FAT32, not NTFS. > So what you see is some strange peculiarity of your system, I think. > Perhaps because you upgraded your filesystem from FAT32? No. It was and is still FAT32. > In any case, "Everyone" is a legitimate value of a Windows owner > and/or primary group of a file. Whatever is used should be consistent: (1) `..' shouldn't be special, and (2) `..' should show the same properties (owner group) as what is shown for it when you follow the `..' link - the directory's properties should not change depending on where you are looking at them. From drew.adams@oracle.com Fri Aug 29 11:44:18 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 819) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2008 18:44:18 +0000 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com (agminet01.oracle.com [141.146.126.228]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7TIiFgj024997 for <819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:44:16 -0700 Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m7TIi83k025704 for <819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:44:08 -0500 Received: from acsmt703.oracle.com (acsmt703.oracle.com [141.146.40.81]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m7TIi6e9027572 for <819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:44:07 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:44:06 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: <819@debbugs.gnu.org> References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#819 closed by Eli Zaretskii (bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about?) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:44:07 -0700 Message-ID: <002401c90a07$38157930$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AckKBXuBDlCTQtNYSlWDmw9c2MRlEgAAKDYQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE > It has been closed by Eli Zaretskii . > Their explanation is attached below along with your original report. > If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a > better one in a separate message then please contact Eli > Zaretskii by replying to this email. I don't agree. You closed this even before my reply to your mail, and I replied immediately. You supposed that I had NTFS, which I do not. It is a bug that `..' is treated differently from other Dired entries, and only when it represents the top-level directory (e.g. c:\). It is only when `..' stands for the top-level directory that `Everyone Everyone' appears. In all other cases, all Dired entries, including `..' entries, list the owner as my user name and the group as `None'. From jasonr@gnu.org Fri Aug 29 12:04:25 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2008 19:04:26 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7TJ4Mo4031615 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:04:23 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:38256) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ9FC-0004yK-BW for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:02:50 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ9Gd-0003sR-IR for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:04:22 -0400 Received: from mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.1]:47313) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ9Ga-0003qm-Es; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:04:16 -0400 X-Trace: 76027044/mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com/F2S/$F2S-INTERNET-ACCEPTED/None/124.82.236.150 X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 124.82.236.150 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: jasonr@gnu.org X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoBAAHlt0h8UuyW/2dsb2JhbAAIu0CBag X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.32,293,1217804400"; d="scan'208";a="76027044" X-IP-Direction: OUT Received: from unknown (HELO [172.16.0.12]) ([124.82.236.150]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 29 Aug 2008 20:04:12 +0100 Message-ID: <48B84800.1040907@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 03:03:28 +0800 From: Jason Rumney User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams , 819@debbugs.gnu.org CC: "'Eli Zaretskii'" , emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 Drew Adams wrote: > IOW, before Emacs 23, (1) `..' was not treated differently from other entries > and (2) the group was not `None'. Change #2 seems OK to me, but I don't > understand #1: Why should `..' be different? > Prior to Emacs 23, the Windows port just made up ownership on the spot, to avoid the bug reports about unexpected results trying to map from NTFS Access Control Lists onto traditional POSIX ownership. From eliz@gnu.org Fri Aug 29 12:23:39 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2008 19:23:39 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7TJNZaA006412 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:23:36 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:41558) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ9Xn-0007Eb-5G for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:22:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ9ZB-0000l7-U5 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:23:34 -0400 Received: from mtaout7.012.net.il ([84.95.2.19]:38433) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ9ZB-0000kZ-90; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:23:29 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i-mtaout7.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0K6D0068YN78OZ40@i-mtaout7.012.net.il>; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:23:33 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:22:58 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? In-reply-to: <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Cc: 819@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Reply-to: Eli Zaretskii Message-id: References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (1203?) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: , > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:12:35 -0700 > > In Emacs 23, it's not what I see in Dired for the other files and directories, > besides `..'. In my case, I see my user name as the owner for each entry except > `..', and I see `None' as the group for each entry except `..'. "None" is the name of the primary group on a stand-alone workstation (probably because someone at MS thought that groups only make sense when there's a domain server). If your machine is a stand-alone workstation, "None" is what I'd expect. > In Emacs 22, I see my user name as the owner for each entry (including `..') and > `root' as the group for each entry (including `..'). In Emacs 20, I see my user > name as the owner for each entry (including `..') and `5' as the group for each > entry (including `..'). This code evolved since it was written. Emacs 20 to 22 didn't actually ask the filesystem for the owner and primary group of each file. Instead, they retrieved during startup the name of the user who runs Emacs, and then attributed each file to that user, and just invented its group as "root". (`5' in Emacs 20 is just due to a bug in understanding the components of the Windows Security ID descriptor.) In Emacs 23, we ask the filesystem about the owner and the group, and report that if the information is available. This is why each version behaves differently. But it is important to know that before Emacs 23, the displayed info was largely invented rather than extracted from the filesystem. Now you see what is really there (if you are on NTFS, which is not your case, see below). > And why should following the link `..' show something different from what was > shown for `..' in the subdir? You mean the link `.' (on dot) should show the same as what was shown for `..' (2 dots) in a subdir, right? If that's not happening for you, please show a concrete example. > My hard disk is formatted FAT32, not NTFS. On a FAT32 we currently attribute all files and directories to the user who runs Emacs. FAT32 fails the file-security syscalls, so we fall back on what Emacs 22 did, because files that have no owner are in a way ``owned'' by everyone, the current user included. > Whatever is used should be consistent: (1) `..' shouldn't be special `..' isn't treated special in the Emacs code that deals with file ownership. > and (2) > `..' should show the same properties (owner group) as what is shown for it when > you follow the `..' link - the directory's properties should not change > depending on where you are looking at them. If you follow the `..' link twice, you mean, right? Or if you follow it once, then look at the `.' line. Right? From eliz@gnu.org Fri Aug 29 12:38:58 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2008 19:38:58 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7TJcrwo011449 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:38:54 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZ9nM-00053B-8B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:38:08 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZ9nL-00052f-29 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:38:07 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=49937 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZ9nK-00052a-W0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:38:07 -0400 Received: from mtaout6.012.net.il ([84.95.2.16]:40204) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZ9nK-00007J-FD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:38:06 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i-mtaout6.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0K6D00MPMNWGT921@i-mtaout6.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:38:41 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:38:06 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#819: closed by Eli Zaretskii (bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about?) In-reply-to: <002401c90a07$38157930$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams , 819@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: 819@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Reply-to: Eli Zaretskii Message-id: References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <002401c90a07$38157930$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (1203?) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:44:07 -0700 > Cc: > > > It has been closed by Eli Zaretskii . > > Their explanation is attached below along with your original report. > > If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a > > better one in a separate message then please contact Eli > > Zaretskii by replying to this email. > > I don't agree. You closed this even before my reply to your mail, and I replied > immediately. I closed it because it complained about Emacs showing "Everyone" as a group name. "Everyone" is a legitimate Windows group name, so the bug as submitted is actually expected behavior on Windows. If you want to complain about something else, please submit another bug report, and please change the description of a bug; telling that "Everyone" is some kid of artefact is simply incorrect, and I can do nothing but close such bugs. > You supposed that I had NTFS, which I do not. No, I supposed you had FAT32. I don't expect "Everyone" anywhere else. I just didn't explain myself clearly. > It is a bug that `..' is treated differently from other Dired entries, and only > when it represents the top-level directory (e.g. c:\). That's not what the code does. There's no special case for `..'. > It is only when `..' stands for the top-level directory that `Everyone Everyone' > appears. In all other cases, all Dired entries, including `..' entries, list the > owner as my user name and the group as `None'. I don't see that on FAT32 volume to which I have access. The code that reports user and group IDs uses fallbacks for when the file security syscalls fail. The fallback is to attribute the files to the user who runs Emacs. On FAT32 volumes the syscalls fail, so what you see is our best shot on reporting something sensible. From eliz@gnu.org Fri Aug 29 12:56:13 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RCVD_IN_NIX1 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2008 19:56:14 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7TJu9AQ017746 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:56:10 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZA4n-0000zt-D2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:56:09 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZA4m-0000yQ-Ih for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:56:09 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45938 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZA4m-0000yJ-FM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:56:08 -0400 Received: from mtaout3.012.net.il ([84.95.2.7]:12054) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZA4l-0006Wr-TR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:56:08 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i_mtaout3.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0K6D00GJDOQJZA30@i_mtaout3.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:56:43 +0300 (IDT) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:56:09 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#819: closed by Eli Zaretskii (bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about?) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: 819@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Reply-to: Eli Zaretskii Message-id: References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <002401c90a07$38157930$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:38:06 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com, > 819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com > > The code that reports user and group IDs uses fallbacks for when the > file security syscalls fail. The fallback is to attribute the files > to the user who runs Emacs. On FAT32 volumes the syscalls fail, so > what you see is our best shot on reporting something sensible. Actually, I take that back: these syscalls should NOT fail on FAT32. You should see "Everyone" for each file and directory on FAT32. The fact that you see your username means that something causes the file-security syscalls to fail. Perhaps that's the same problem as the one reported by Juanma a few days ago (on NTFS). We will see when I debug that one. > I don't see that on FAT32 volume to which I have access. This part is still true. From drew.adams@oracle.com Fri Aug 29 13:06:28 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2008 20:06:28 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7TK6PlM021777 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:06:26 -0700 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:53223 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KZADE-0001W6-TY for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:04:52 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZAEe-0002CR-7T for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:06:24 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:27335) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZAEd-0002Bt-OS; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:06:20 -0400 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m7TK691U024513; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:06:09 -0600 Received: from acsmt702.oracle.com (acsmt702.oracle.com [141.146.40.80]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m7TK68uZ017824; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:06:08 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:06:08 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Cc: <819@debbugs.gnu.org>, , References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:06:05 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: Thread-Index: AckKDMPwDWVA+IoHQjKUaR/neWVxJQAAhPNQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > > And why should following the link `..' show something > > different from what was > > shown for `..' in the subdir? > > You mean the link `.' (on dot) should show the same as what was shown > for `..' (2 dots) in a subdir, right? If that's not happening for > you, please show a concrete example. I probably misspoke a bit. The `Everyone'...`Everyone' owner and group appear only on `..', and only when `..' represents the top level: c:\. And for Dired in c:\ itself there is no `.' entry, so I can't say it contradicts what `..' showed one level down (`Everyone'...`Everyone'). The bug, as I see it, is that `..' is different (showing `Everyone'...`Everyone') _only_ for a directory just under c:\ - for example, Dired in c:\foo\. Everywhere else, I see the same thing for `..' that I see for every other file or directory (my user name and `None', in my case). > > My hard disk is formatted FAT32, not NTFS. > > On a FAT32 we currently attribute all files and directories to the > user who runs Emacs. FAT32 fails the file-security syscalls, so we > fall back on what Emacs 22 did, because files that have no owner are > in a way ``owned'' by everyone, the current user included. I see. But I do not in fact see the same thing in Emacs 22 as in Emacs 23, so you must be doing something different in this case. From drew.adams@oracle.com Fri Aug 29 13:08:07 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,CT_IMAGE,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,NEXTPART,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2008 20:08:07 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7TK83tE022017 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:08:04 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZAGJ-0001Bv-6Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:08:03 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZAGH-00019P-Kt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:08:02 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=44353 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZAGH-000196-CY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:08:01 -0400 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]:42184) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZAGB-0002mA-GZ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:07:56 -0400 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m7TK7VbQ027167; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:07:32 -0500 Received: from acsmt701.oracle.com (acsmt701.oracle.com [141.146.40.71]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m7TK7UE5019584; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:07:31 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:07:30 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" , <819@debbugs.gnu.org> Cc: , References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <002401c90a07$38157930$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#819: closed by Eli Zaretskii (bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about?) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:07:27 -0700 Message-ID: <000101c90a12$dcc0ed10$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C909D8.30621510" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: Thread-Index: AckKDtXTaMD7QUH0R8yeJYB1GT4ZDgAAIb4w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C909D8.30621510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I closed it because it complained about Emacs showing "Everyone" as a > group name. "Everyone" is a legitimate Windows group name, so the bug > as submitted is actually expected behavior on Windows. What I reported (or meant to report) was about the top level (c:\) being treated different from other levels in Dired: the fact that `..' in a directory just under the top level doesn't show the same properties as elsewhere. I might not have made that clear enough, but this is the problem I see: treating `..' differently in this one case. > If you want to complain about something else, please submit another > bug report, and please change the description of a bug; telling that > "Everyone" is some kid of artefact is simply incorrect, and I can do > nothing but close such bugs. Bug #819 and its subject line are adequate for this bug, IMO - no need to file another bug. I've clarified what I see. If you want to fix it, OK; if not, OK. > > You supposed that I had NTFS, which I do not. > > No, I supposed you had FAT32. I don't expect "Everyone" anywhere > else. I just didn't explain myself clearly. I too didn't explain myself clearly enough. Hopefully, it's clear now. > > It is a bug that `..' is treated differently from other > > Dired entries, and only > > when it represents the top-level directory (e.g. c:\). > > That's not what the code does. There's no special case for `..'. I hope my description is clear now. I'm looking at the Dired entries, not at the code. > > It is only when `..' stands for the top-level directory > > that `Everyone Everyone' appears. In all other cases, all Dired > > entries, including `..' entries, list the > > owner as my user name and the group as `None'. > > I don't see that on FAT32 volume to which I have access. Attached is a screenshot, in case it helps. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C909D8.30621510 Content-Type: image/png; name="bug-dired-owner-group.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="bug-dired-owner-group.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAigAAADPCAIAAABQsb3BAAAgAElEQVR4nOydf3AUVZ7Av697JpMA AYkjI3quZSZwyV5BXR0rhMTVq0CUQFIIpeJ5hllOw8IlCsJOlq0T69TysHJJuavJZSV1So693fLH crE4TBaMW5YiiBRo7q4IOCEKKBUJCQmSzEz/ePdHT3o63T2T7pmeyWTy/dQU1el5/f1+3/e919/3 fa+nIXDbabjrZrgpC7JZkulgCKE2lrAEWMLa6O106C7h8jxhcAYNiJQMk6zL7M1fO24dYOdQAQBA IAQkeJChPIXkc/2TjCMfMWN/iT/+eTDfOQlmIAiCWIHQROasG5g9k5mVSRx2sLGEEBCAAAGBAZ4A ByRIISiSoABBHoJBygUF8fowXD1Dj97PVtP4hZBNAgDQN9mzhXPYWbOZrFkkw0FYG2EIiCExhPKM yIEQJHwQ+CBwQcoF+SA3NCqe/QEe9lFS8QMAAMfDEAfBM3DxSxayt8DcGZBpBwdDbDYKwFAKNgYo MIT5gZlxkZnX7fjR/2Tk/m9m7leOOy7bnaNMJgAQBoACA0Cl2MMAiCF/EYZMwifrTvGv7hXGPuK8 mZNjxnT6yC2OIIjlVBXR//rz90PX/SLv53mOC/qDgdGA3x8IBgJ+f2DUH/RzgdEA7w9yfj/vD/L+ 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CRdVZ0oF9bUWWCdDv1NjV62pix7kCAzADaABVWDptQDNV4DZ+GkPQRAEQf4L/wLN4zItrroOywAA AABJRU5ErkJggg== ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C909D8.30621510-- From drew.adams@oracle.com Fri Aug 29 13:10:40 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2008 20:10:40 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7TKAbqB023398 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:10:38 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZAIn-0004z9-0S for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:10:37 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZAIl-0004v1-5m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:10:36 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=36525 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZAIl-0004uj-2e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:10:35 -0400 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]:42816) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZAIc-0003mO-Tg; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:10:27 -0400 Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.110]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m7TKAF2N029418; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:10:15 -0500 Received: from acsmt706.oracle.com (acsmt706.oracle.com [141.146.40.84]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m7TKAE4L023285; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:10:14 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:10:14 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" , <819@debbugs.gnu.org> Cc: References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <002401c90a07$38157930$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#819: closed by Eli Zaretskii (bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about?) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:10:12 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c90a13$3e8faef0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: Thread-Index: AckKEXklZD9d2w8sTwy/bb0QGWLovQAAYG8w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > > The code that reports user and group IDs uses fallbacks for when the > > file security syscalls fail. The fallback is to attribute the files > > to the user who runs Emacs. On FAT32 volumes the syscalls fail, so > > what you see is our best shot on reporting something sensible. > > Actually, I take that back: these syscalls should NOT fail on FAT32. > You should see "Everyone" for each file and directory on FAT32. The > fact that you see your username means that something causes the > file-security syscalls to fail. Perhaps that's the same problem as > the one reported by Juanma a few days ago (on NTFS). We will see when > I debug that one. If it always showed Everyone, that would be OK. The problem is that it is not consistent (on my machine, at least), treating directories just under the top level differently from others. > > I don't see that on FAT32 volume to which I have access. > > This part is still true. See the screenshot I sent. It sounds like we are seeing different things. I definitely have FAT32, FWIW. From monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA Fri Aug 29 14:05:46 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Aug 2008 21:05:46 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7TL5g8F009778 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:05:44 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:35524) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KZB8c-0006fs-D3 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:04:10 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZBA1-0006HH-G8 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:05:41 -0400 Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:34752) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZBA1-0006GL-62; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:05:37 -0400 Received: from alfajor.home (vpn-132-204-232-34.acd.umontreal.ca [132.204.232.34]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m7TL5GuD008170; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:05:17 -0400 Received: by alfajor.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 2048B1C277; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:05:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Drew Adams Cc: 819@debbugs.gnu.org, "'Eli Zaretskii'" , emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? Message-ID: References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:05:16 -0400 In-Reply-To: <000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:06:05 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV3093=0 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > The bug, as I see it, is that `..' is different (showing > `Everyone'...`Everyone') _only_ for a directory just under c:\ - for > example, Dired in c:\foo\. Everywhere else, I see the same thing for > `..' that I see for every other file or directory (my user name and > `None', in my case). What Eli says is that this "bug" is not in Emacs. Emacs just reports what the Windows API reports in this case. Stefan From jasonr@gnu.org Fri Aug 29 17:33:25 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 819) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 30 Aug 2008 00:33:25 +0000 Received: from mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7U0XMqC014276 for <819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:33:23 -0700 X-Trace: 76092903/mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com/F2S/$F2S-INTERNET-ACCEPTED/None/124.82.236.150 X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 124.82.236.150 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: jasonr@gnu.org X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoBAFgyuEh8UuyW/2dsb2JhbAAIuQFuC3E X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.32,295,1217804400"; d="scan'208";a="76092903" X-IP-Direction: OUT Received: from unknown (HELO [172.16.0.12]) ([124.82.236.150]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 30 Aug 2008 01:33:14 +0100 Message-ID: <48B8951B.9030209@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:32:27 +0800 From: Jason Rumney User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams , 819@debbugs.gnu.org CC: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Subject: Re: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Drew Adams wrote: > I probably misspoke a bit. The `Everyone'...`Everyone' owner and group appear > only on `..', and only when `..' represents the top level: c:\. And for Dired in > c:\ itself there is no `.' entry, so I can't say it contradicts what `..' showed > one level down (`Everyone'...`Everyone'). > > The bug, as I see it, is that `..' is different (showing > `Everyone'...`Everyone') _only_ for a directory just under c:\ - for example, > Dired in c:\foo\. Everywhere else, I see the same thing for `..' that I see for > every other file or directory (my user name and `None', in my case). > So what seems to be happening is that the security descriptor for the disk itself is different than the security descriptor for the files and folders it contains, and Emacs is reporting that. From drew.adams@oracle.com Fri Aug 29 19:00:24 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 819) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 30 Aug 2008 02:00:25 +0000 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com (agminet01.oracle.com [141.146.126.228]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7U20LJw010926 for <819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:00:23 -0700 Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m7U20EDb024802; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:00:15 -0500 Received: from acsmt706.oracle.com (acsmt706.oracle.com [141.146.40.84]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m7U20DoU010506; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:00:13 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:00:12 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Jason Rumney'" , <819@debbugs.gnu.org> Cc: "'Eli Zaretskii'" References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48B8951B.9030209@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:00:12 -0700 Message-ID: <002501c90a44$23eb0af0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: <48B8951B.9030209@gnu.org> Thread-Index: AckKONoUe3PlKxs3QCOu75xtjdNIWwACwqug X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE > > I probably misspoke a bit. The `Everyone'...`Everyone' > owner and group appear > > only on `..', and only when `..' represents the top level: > c:\. And for Dired in > > c:\ itself there is no `.' entry, so I can't say it > contradicts what `..' showed > > one level down (`Everyone'...`Everyone'). > > > > The bug, as I see it, is that `..' is different (showing > > `Everyone'...`Everyone') _only_ for a directory just under > c:\ - for example, > > Dired in c:\foo\. Everywhere else, I see the same thing for > `..' that I see for > > every other file or directory (my user name and `None', in my case). > > So what seems to be happening is that the security descriptor for the > disk itself is different than the security descriptor for the > files and folders it contains, and Emacs is reporting that. Just so I can understand a little better, could you elaborate? I thought that Eli was saying that with FAT32 it should say Everyone...Everyone everywhere. Which is more or less (or differently?) secure, my disk or the files and folders? How is that determined/defined in the Windows UI? Thx. From jasonr@gnu.org Fri Aug 29 19:52:59 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 819) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 30 Aug 2008 02:52:59 +0000 Received: from mk-outboundfilter-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7U2qtbe028744 for <819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:52:56 -0700 X-Trace: 163656190/mk-outboundfilter-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com/F2S/$F2S-INTERNET-ACCEPTED/None/124.82.236.150 X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 124.82.236.150 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: jasonr@gnu.org X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjsBACdTuEh8UuyW/2dsb2JhbAAIuESBag X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.32,295,1217804400"; d="scan'208";a="163656190" X-IP-Direction: OUT Received: from unknown (HELO [172.16.0.12]) ([124.82.236.150]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 30 Aug 2008 03:52:47 +0100 Message-ID: <48B8B5D2.603@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:52:02 +0800 From: Jason Rumney User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Drew Adams CC: 819@debbugs.gnu.org, "'Eli Zaretskii'" Subject: Re: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48B8951B.9030209@gnu.org> <002501c90a44$23eb0af0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <002501c90a44$23eb0af0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Drew Adams wrote: > Just so I can understand a little better, could you elaborate? I thought that > Eli was saying that with FAT32 it should say Everyone...Everyone everywhere. > That is what I see with a FAT32 disk too. I have no idea why you see different, but it probably has something to do with your local Windows configuration. > Which is more or less (or differently?) secure, my disk or the files and > folders? How is that determined/defined in the Windows UI? Thx. > You are asking questions that only someone with access to Windows source code could answer. It may not be different security, the security calls may be failing, causing Emacs to fall back on the old strategy of making something up. > > From drew.adams@oracle.com Fri Aug 29 20:29:26 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 819) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 30 Aug 2008 03:29:26 +0000 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com (rgminet01.oracle.com [148.87.113.118]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7U3TNFb008550 for <819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:29:24 -0700 Received: from agmgw2.us.oracle.com (agmgw2.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.213]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m7U3TG3D007853; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:29:16 -0600 Received: from acsmt702.oracle.com (acsmt702.oracle.com [141.146.40.80]) by agmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id m7U3TGnr026398; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:29:16 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:29:15 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Jason Rumney'" Cc: <819@debbugs.gnu.org>, "'Eli Zaretskii'" References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48B8951B.9030209@gnu.org> <002501c90a44$23eb0af0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48B8B5D2.603@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:29:15 -0700 Message-ID: <002e01c90a50$94a67c50$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: <48B8B5D2.603@gnu.org> Thread-Index: AckKS543fbYQtvGCQuecSuEtLtvs5wABKgvw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE > > Just so I can understand a little better, could you > > elaborate? I thought that Eli was saying that with FAT32 > > it should say Everyone...Everyone everywhere. > > That is what I see with a FAT32 disk too. I have no idea why you see > different, but it probably has something to do with your > local Windows configuration. > > > Which is more or less (or differently?) secure, my disk or > > the files and folders? How is that determined/defined in the > > Windows UI? Thx. > > > > You are asking questions that only someone with access to > Windows source code could answer. It may not be different > security, the security calls may be failing, causing Emacs > to fall back on the old strategy of making something up. OK, I guess the bottom line is that my Windows installation/config is in some way, for some reason, exceptional, and this is not an Emacs bug. Thanks for looking into it; sorry for the noise. From eliz@gnu.org Sat Aug 30 01:11:00 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_NIX1 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 819) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 30 Aug 2008 08:11:00 +0000 Received: from mtaout2.012.net.il (mtaout2.012.net.il [84.95.2.4]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7U8AtK9007228 for <819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:10:57 -0700 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i_mtaout2.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0K6E005NCMR2S7P1@i_mtaout2.012.net.il> for 819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:11:27 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:10:52 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? In-reply-to: <002501c90a44$23eb0af0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Cc: jasonr@gnu.org, 819@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-to: Eli Zaretskii Message-id: References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48B8951B.9030209@gnu.org> <002501c90a44$23eb0af0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: "'Eli Zaretskii'" > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:00:12 -0700 > > > > I probably misspoke a bit. The `Everyone'...`Everyone' > > owner and group appear > > > only on `..', and only when `..' represents the top level: > > c:\. And for Dired in > > > c:\ itself there is no `.' entry, so I can't say it > > contradicts what `..' showed > > > one level down (`Everyone'...`Everyone'). > > > > > > The bug, as I see it, is that `..' is different (showing > > > `Everyone'...`Everyone') _only_ for a directory just under > > c:\ - for example, > > > Dired in c:\foo\. Everywhere else, I see the same thing for > > `..' that I see for > > > every other file or directory (my user name and `None', in my case). > > > > So what seems to be happening is that the security descriptor for the > > disk itself is different than the security descriptor for the > > files and folders it contains, and Emacs is reporting that. > > Just so I can understand a little better, could you elaborate? I thought that > Eli was saying that with FAT32 it should say Everyone...Everyone everywhere. Yes, that is what I was saying. The fact that some files are not reported as Everyone...Everyone might be some bug in Emacs, I will look into this shortly. What Jason suggests above is AFAIK impossible, since Windows security APIs always report the same descriptor S-1-1-0 for every file on a FAT32 volume. S-1-1-0 is the security descriptor of "Everyone". Do you have the subinacl.exe program? (If not, you can download and install the Windows Resource Kit.) Try this command and see what it reports about your directories: subinacl /output=log.txt /subdirectories c:\some\directory (This could take a while on a large disk, so pick up a directory that does not have too many subdirectories and files under it.) The results are in the file log.txt that is encoded in UTF-16, and should be viewed by visiting it with Emacs. Do you see anything but "everyone" in the reported owner and primary group of your files? From eliz@gnu.org Sat Aug 30 01:15:18 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_NIX1 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 819) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 30 Aug 2008 08:15:19 +0000 Received: from mtaout1.012.net.il (mtaout1.012.net.il [84.95.2.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7U8FEt6008195 for <819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:15:16 -0700 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i-mtaout1.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0K6E00MLDMY7EN50@i-mtaout1.012.net.il> for 819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:15:43 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:15:09 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? In-reply-to: <002e01c90a50$94a67c50$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Cc: jasonr@gnu.org, 819@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-to: Eli Zaretskii Message-id: References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48B8951B.9030209@gnu.org> <002501c90a44$23eb0af0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48B8B5D2.603@gnu.org> <002e01c90a50$94a67c50$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: <819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>, "'Eli Zaretskii'" > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:29:15 -0700 > > sorry for the noise. Wait with that apology; I might find some Emacs bug after all. Stay tuned. From eliz@gnu.org Sat Aug 30 01:56:31 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RCVD_IN_NIX1 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 30 Aug 2008 08:56:31 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7U8uQSR022016 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:56:28 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZMFt-0004YP-Td for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:56:26 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZMFr-0004Xs-F4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:56:24 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=49010 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZMFq-0004Xf-Ds for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:56:22 -0400 Received: from mtaout2.012.net.il ([84.95.2.4]:56209) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZMFq-00052p-8M for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:56:22 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i_mtaout2.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0K6E004X4OUX6JK1@i_mtaout2.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:56:58 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:56:24 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: 819@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Reply-to: Eli Zaretskii Message-id: References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48B8951B.9030209@gnu.org> <002501c90a44$23eb0af0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48B8B5D2.603@gnu.org> <002e01c90a50$94a67c50$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:15:09 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: 819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com > > > From: "Drew Adams" > > Cc: <819@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>, "'Eli Zaretskii'" > > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:29:15 -0700 > > > > sorry for the noise. > > Wait with that apology; I might find some Emacs bug after all. Stay > tuned. OK, I think I know what is going on. You are using an Emacs 23 binary that was built before Aug 15 this year, right? If so, there was a bug in the code back then which would manifest itself when w32-get-true-file-attributes was at its default value `local'. The bug would cause Emacs to think that every file except the root directory on each local drive was not local, and therefore Emacs would not try to retrieve the file's security descriptor and glean the owner and group from that. Instead, Emacs would fall back on attributing each file to the user who runs Emacs. This is why you see the root directory owned by "Everyone", while the rest of files are not. To see if my theory is right, either install a binary built after Aug 15, or set w32-get-true-file-attributes to t and do a Dired on C:\. If I'm right, you will see each and every file attributed to Everyone, like I'd expect on a FAT32 volume. From drew.adams@oracle.com Sat Aug 30 06:55:42 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 30 Aug 2008 13:55:42 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7UDtbOO026449 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:55:39 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZQvR-00081Z-1H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:55:37 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZQvP-00080o-59 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:55:36 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=33290 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZQvO-00080i-W9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:55:35 -0400 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]:42969) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZQvJ-00014j-PW; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:55:30 -0400 Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.110]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m7UDtG1r007232; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:55:16 -0500 Received: from acsmt702.oracle.com (acsmt702.oracle.com [141.146.40.80]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m7UDtFWj020624; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:55:15 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:55:15 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" , <819@debbugs.gnu.org> Cc: References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48B8951B.9030209@gnu.org> <002501c90a44$23eb0af0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48B8B5D2.603@gnu.org> <002e01c90a50$94a67c50$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:55:15 -0700 Message-ID: <003701c90aa8$07d8ec10$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: Thread-Index: AckKfzE9UMgEmQbUSU6E48JOsxemiwAKFJfw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 > OK, I think I know what is going on. You are using an Emacs 23 binary > that was built before Aug 15 this year, right? Yes, August 1, 2008. > If so, there was a bug in the code back then which would manifest > itself when w32-get-true-file-attributes was at its default value > `local'. The bug would cause Emacs to think that every file except > the root directory on each local drive was not local, and therefore > Emacs would not try to retrieve the file's security descriptor and > glean the owner and group from that. Instead, Emacs would fall back > on attributing each file to the user who runs Emacs. > > This is why you see the root directory owned by "Everyone", while the > rest of files are not. > > To see if my theory is right, either install a binary built after Aug > 15, or set w32-get-true-file-attributes to t and do a Dired on C:\. > If I'm right, you will see each and every file attributed to Everyone, > like I'd expect on a FAT32 volume. Bravo! Gagne. That was it - setting w32-get-true-file-attributes to t shows Everyone everywhere. Thanks for tracking this down. Sorry I didn't have a more recent build; it would have saved a bug report and your debugging time. From drew.adams@oracle.com Sat Aug 30 07:19:29 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 30 Aug 2008 14:19:29 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7UEJQPi001666 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:19:27 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZRIT-0005Dg-HS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:19:25 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZRIS-0005CD-1v for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:19:25 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=33348 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZRIR-0005C7-Vt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:19:24 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:13330) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZRIM-0003jY-NK; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:19:19 -0400 Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.110]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m7UEJ6pQ030753; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:19:06 -0600 Received: from acsmt706.oracle.com (acsmt706.oracle.com [141.146.40.84]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m7UEJ5Bg015852; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:19:06 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/69.181.100.12) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:19:05 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: <819@debbugs.gnu.org>, "'Eli Zaretskii'" Cc: , "'Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)'" References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><48B8951B.9030209@gnu.org><002501c90a44$23eb0af0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com><48B8B5D2.603@gnu.org><002e01c90a50$94a67c50$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <003701c90aa8$07d8ec10$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:19:05 -0700 Message-ID: <003901c90aab$5c936a20$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: <003701c90aa8$07d8ec10$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Thread-Index: AckKfzE9UMgEmQbUSU6E48JOsxemiwAKFJfwAADnklA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 FYI - Lennart uploaded a new binary (8-29), and it works (Everyone...Everyone, everywhere) in that build. Thx to all who helped on this. From eliz@gnu.org Sat Aug 30 07:25:40 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 30 Aug 2008 14:25:40 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m7UEPb3W004642 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:25:38 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZROS-0000st-P8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:25:36 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZROS-0000sG-6K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:25:36 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55402 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZROS-0000s3-23 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:25:36 -0400 Received: from mtaout4.012.net.il ([84.95.2.10]:26631) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZROR-0006BB-E4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:25:35 -0400 Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.211.50]) by i_mtaout4.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0K6F003SX43LXU70@i_mtaout4.012.net.il> for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:26:09 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:25:35 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#819: 23.0.60; group and owner "Everyone" - what's that about? In-reply-to: <003701c90aa8$07d8ec10$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Cc: 819@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Reply-to: Eli Zaretskii Message-id: References: <001201c909e8$001b46a0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <001901c90a02$d0cfa010$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <000001c90a12$abd26030$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48B8951B.9030209@gnu.org> <002501c90a44$23eb0af0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <48B8B5D2.603@gnu.org> <002e01c90a50$94a67c50$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <003701c90aa8$07d8ec10$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9.1 > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:55:15 -0700 > > Bravo! Gagne. That was it - setting w32-get-true-file-attributes to t shows > Everyone everywhere. Thanks for tracking this down. Sorry I didn't have a more > recent build; it would have saved a bug report and your debugging time. No sweat: tracking this down made me realize that the Emacs 22.3 pretest has the same problem with local/remote drive detection, so I fixed it in time for 22.3. (Emacs 22.x does not display true file owner and group on local files, but it still works harder to get file attributes such as the number of hard links and ``inode'' value.) From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:15:15 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: $requester Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 14:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # A New Hope # A log time ago, in a galaxy far, far away # something happened. # # Magically this resulted in the following # action being taken, but this fake control # message doesn't tell you why it happened # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator