From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 10 06:17:46 2025 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Sep 2025 10:17:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36187 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwHta-0006Lk-3E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 06:17:46 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:52200) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwHtW-0006LQ-Gd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 06:17:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uwHtN-0005cm-7c for bug-automake@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 06:17:33 -0400 Received: from joooj.vinc17.net ([155.133.131.76]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uwHtJ-0004fO-Iy for bug-automake@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 06:17:32 -0400 Received: from smtp-qaa.vinc17.net (2a02-8428-1b1d-4d01-96a9-491d-7b48-ba31.rev.sfr.net [IPv6:2a02:8428:1b1d:4d01:96a9:491d:7b48:ba31]) by joooj.vinc17.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6C76C1F8; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 12:17:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: by qaa.vinc17.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2ED5DCA03B0; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 12:17:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2025 12:17:11 +0200 From: Vincent Lefevre To: bug-automake@gnu.org Subject: "automake --add-missing" should not install an obsolete texinfo.tex file Message-ID: <20250910101711.GD2807@qaa.vinc17.org> Mail-Followup-To: Vincent Lefevre , bug-automake@gnu.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer-Info: https://www.vinc17.net/mutt/ User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.13+86 (bb2064ae) vl-169878 (2025-02-08) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=155.133.131.76; envelope-from=vincent@vinc17.net; helo=joooj.vinc17.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, I had reported the following bug in the Debian BTS, and this is still an issue: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=882844 In 2017, with GNU Automake 1.15.1: "automake --add-missing" installs the texinfo.tex file it distributes, which is really obsolete: 2013-02-01.11 while the current version is 2017-08-23.19. The texinfo.tex file was no longer obsolete with GNU Automake 1.16 in January 2019. But this issue, which has never been fixed, is now visible again with GNU Automake 1.17: In the MPFR working copy under Debian/unstable (trixie is probably also affected): qaa% rm doc/texinfo.tex qaa% automake --add-missing doc/Makefile.am:25: installing 'doc/texinfo.tex' qaa% grep def.texinfoversion doc/texinfo.tex \def\texinfoversion{2024-02-10.22} qaa% grep def.texinfoversion /usr/share/texmf/tex/texinfo/texinfo.tex \def\texinfoversion{2024-11-04.20} (where /usr/share/texmf/tex/texinfo/texinfo.tex is the up-to-date file provided by texinfo). The issue is that "automake --add-missing" installs the texinfo.tex file it distributes (which can be very old as seen in the 2017 case) while there may be a newer Texinfo installed under the standard texmf directory. -- Vincent Lefèvre - Web: 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Pascaline project (LIP, ENS-Lyon) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 10 17:12:03 2025 Received: (at 79419) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Sep 2025 21:12:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40483 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwS6l-00070l-J5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 17:12:03 -0400 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:42218 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwS6j-00070E-2H for 79419@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 17:12:01 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 58ALBw2h050726 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 10 Sep 2025 15:11:58 -0600 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 58ALBwEU050725; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 15:11:58 -0600 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2025 15:11:58 -0600 Message-Id: <202509102111.58ALBwEU050725@freefriends.org> From: Karl Berry To: vincent@vinc17.net Subject: Re: bug#79419: "automake --add-missing" should not install an obsolete texinfo.tex file In-Reply-To: <20250910101711.GD2807@qaa.vinc17.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79419 Cc: 79419@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Vincent. As far as I know, --add-missing has never checked for whether its versions are older. I don't know of a reasonable way to change this -- it's a common problem, and also inevitable, given asynchronous releases of everything involved. Instead, it doesn't install over existing files. I believe you can stop Automake from dealing with texinfo.tex by 1) specifying the no-texinfo-tex Automake option, or 2) (perhaps better) setting the TEXINFO_TEX variable, or 3) creating doc/texinfo.tex yourself before running it, as in: ln -s /usr/share/texmf/tex/texinfo/texinfo.tex doc/texinfo.tex or 4) removing the undesired link/copy afterward (of course). I realize none of these are really satisfactory, but I can't think of anything better. I don't think it's feasible for automake to go poking around the system trying to find other versions of the "missing" files to compare against. There'd be no way to know what's really wanted, seems to me. For example, one could imagine running kpsewhich texinfo.tex and comparing versions (already prone to problems) ... but you might be making a test or other hierarchy where you explicitly do not want the behavior to depend on what the current system has installed. I'm open to other ideas. --best, karl. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 10 17:56:52 2025 Received: (at 79419) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Sep 2025 21:56:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40597 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwSo7-00011k-S4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 17:56:52 -0400 Received: from fhigh-b4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([202.12.124.155]:39603) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwSo5-00011I-IC for 79419@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 17:56:50 -0400 Received: from phl-compute-06.internal (phl-compute-06.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailfhigh.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90C147A017B; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 17:56:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-imap-16 ([10.202.2.88]) by phl-compute-06.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 10 Sep 2025 17:56:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=owlfolio.org; h= cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1757541403; x=1757627803; bh=nrrNhlcTI334HhsmhWcz43qY1AxmkcVMnNVNkqkztIE=; b= n4tukMVH3sm8Upt8F4KIWbqb55Ndrxw7W3t85tUNlByqV6d2q3uMmdSbL+GyJUXY zniaG5ZsTQ+klRMAW7vKIC8OjP/NJ43STbk6wwZr8rph073T2rfOHOoRuaRE1zTi DXCmaple5rMbF5lUxymis1xbO97YK2z++IX+kF9E4vjC7EX8xstn8YR28KtEK/0z uiN0YWmcfHyNUF+3BSVWYzE76LS4yJUAZagWBpc6CBGtIhDaqXsssb/nJ1GVFZ5B /YB8fS97/y8O32oRoT+e4gxTRylgk61Qo9Se4TCM8vSBjE5s+VHQ6YX9kgD351fF 1hlLmLJp3Ad/F1DWYj+I8w== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t=1757541403; x= 1757627803; bh=nrrNhlcTI334HhsmhWcz43qY1AxmkcVMnNVNkqkztIE=; b=d hm1Kl7nSUxJJ0wyphuOvlNlf4VJDx7JIKf2RQ8bptp/LA22v27x34iovJjLVWXth tj35DHriiMb2HqOvGLRi7xJdC+LVTB3roxYF8hIsNFX1siGIjHBJzqzt4lBQLtU+ ufV59NZUSGSIvIMe8dkG4GkxTtl/lCZ1lHcFmKVUcjqnmWTu/AE+FIyxrrZLUs6K LIxNQ6RebTmTySvs7Q8uDrCgbDS9GBl0avS+7Tlj5XuAzifzfJ2s7+vmSLMzBy6O fMoK72POd3/22zM2PhIIfHQXfE45/Jq+qD8Rt9k9JX/+dJjsUcOzpFMdBVgZwPO4 eHP5gsyXYgGt4p62mboeA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeffedrtdeggddvgeegfecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegr ihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjug hrpefoggffhffvvefkjghfufgtgfesthejredtredttdenucfhrhhomhepfdgkrggtkhcu hggvihhnsggvrhhgfdcuoeiirggtkhesohiflhhfohhlihhordhorhhgqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpefgjedtfeelhedtvdetiedtiefggfefvdehleeiveektefgtdekhefhgeff ffefvdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe iirggtkhesohiflhhfohhlihhordhorhhgpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopeefpdhmohguvgep shhmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopeejleegudelseguvggssghughhsrdhgnhhurdhorh hgpdhrtghpthhtohepkhgrrhhlsehfrhgvvghfrhhivghnughsrdhorhhgpdhrtghpthht ohepvhhinhgtvghnthesvhhinhgtudejrdhnvght X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i876146a2:Fastmail Received: by mailuser.phl.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id E84D62CC0083; Wed, 10 Sep 2025 17:56:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ThreadId: AmigIZ0nJHD- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2025 17:56:22 -0400 From: "Zack Weinberg" To: "Karl Berry" , "Vincent Lefevre" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <202509102111.58ALBwEU050725@freefriends.org> References: <20250910101711.GD2807@qaa.vinc17.org> <202509102111.58ALBwEU050725@freefriends.org> Subject: Re: bug#79419: "automake --add-missing" should not install an obsolete texinfo.tex file Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79419 Cc: 79419@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Wed, Sep 10, 2025, at 5:11 PM, Karl Berry wrote: > Hi Vincent. As far as I know, --add-missing has never checked for > whether its versions are older. I don't know of a reasonable way to > change this -- it's a common problem, and also inevitable, given > asynchronous releases of everything involved. Instead, it doesn't > install over existing files. ... > I don't think it's feasible for automake to go poking around the > system trying to find other versions of the "missing" files to compare > against. There'd be no way to know what's really wanted, seems to me. ... > I'm open to other ideas. --best, karl. This couldn't be the default, because it'd involve talking to the network, but what about a mode where it retrieves the latest version of each file that is frequently updated, directly from its official VCS source? As well as texinfo.tex, I know this would be useful for config.sub and config.guess at least. zw From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 11 04:48:35 2025 Received: (at 79419) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2025 08:48:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42340 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwcyp-0001Iw-7i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 04:48:35 -0400 Received: from joooj.vinc17.net ([2001:4b99:1:3:216:3eff:fe20:ac98]:46862) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwcyk-0001Ic-6l for 79419@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 04:48:31 -0400 Received: from smtp-qaa.vinc17.net (135.197.67.86.rev.sfr.net [86.67.197.135]) by joooj.vinc17.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BAB0F339; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 10:48:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: by qaa.vinc17.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 825B2CA03B3; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 10:48:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2025 10:48:25 +0200 From: Vincent Lefevre To: Karl Berry Subject: Re: bug#79419: "automake --add-missing" should not install an obsolete texinfo.tex file Message-ID: <20250911084825.GK2688@qaa.vinc17.org> References: <20250910101711.GD2807@qaa.vinc17.org> <202509102111.58ALBwEU050725@freefriends.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <202509102111.58ALBwEU050725@freefriends.org> X-Mailer-Info: https://www.vinc17.net/mutt/ User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.13+86 (bb2064ae) vl-169878 (2025-02-08) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79419 Cc: 79419@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2025-09-10 15:11:58 -0600, Karl Berry wrote: > For example, one could imagine running kpsewhich texinfo.tex and > comparing versions (already prone to problems) ... but you might be > making a test or other hierarchy where you explicitly do not want the > behavior to depend on what the current system has installed. "kpsewhich texinfo.tex" seems to be a way to get the correct path. But if there is any problem with it, I'm wondering whether the path should be provided at Automake build time (possibly as a list of directories, as usual search paths): it would be provided either by a distribution or by a user who builds Automake. -- Vincent Lefèvre - Web: 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Pascaline project (LIP, ENS-Lyon) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 11 04:57:30 2025 Received: (at 79419) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2025 08:57:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42363 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwd7S-0001oP-6q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 04:57:30 -0400 Received: from joooj.vinc17.net ([155.133.131.76]:43134) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwd7L-0001nc-9u for 79419@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 04:57:24 -0400 Received: from smtp-qaa.vinc17.net (135.197.67.86.rev.sfr.net [86.67.197.135]) by joooj.vinc17.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 540FD339; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 10:57:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: by qaa.vinc17.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 25DD9CA03B3; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 10:57:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2025 10:57:21 +0200 From: Vincent Lefevre To: Zack Weinberg Subject: Re: bug#79419: "automake --add-missing" should not install an obsolete texinfo.tex file Message-ID: <20250911085721.GL2688@qaa.vinc17.org> References: <20250910101711.GD2807@qaa.vinc17.org> <202509102111.58ALBwEU050725@freefriends.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Mailer-Info: https://www.vinc17.net/mutt/ User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.13+86 (bb2064ae) vl-169878 (2025-02-08) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79419 Cc: 79419@debbugs.gnu.org, Karl Berry X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2025-09-10 17:56:22 -0400, Zack Weinberg wrote: > This couldn't be the default, because it'd involve talking to the > network, but what about a mode where it retrieves the latest version of > each file that is frequently updated, directly from its official VCS > source? As well as texinfo.tex, I know this would be useful for > config.sub and config.guess at least. I don't think that this is a good idea, in particular if the files are not signed (and for texinfo.tex, the user might not want to use an unstable version). I would rather expect the user to download the files and put them at some location, with some manual checking. Then automake should have a way to pick them. -- Vincent Lefèvre - Web: 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Pascaline project (LIP, ENS-Lyon) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 11 17:29:27 2025 Received: (at 79419) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2025 21:29:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45300 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwor9-0001Lt-Aw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 17:29:27 -0400 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:41234 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwor6-0001LZ-7r for 79419@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 17:29:25 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 58BLTL0M044079 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 11 Sep 2025 15:29:21 -0600 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 58BLTKeI044078; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 15:29:20 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2025 15:29:20 -0600 Message-Id: <202509112129.58BLTKeI044078@freefriends.org> From: Karl Berry To: vincent@vinc17.net Subject: Re: bug#79419: "automake --add-missing" should not install an obsolete texinfo.tex file In-Reply-To: <20250911085721.GL2688@qaa.vinc17.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79419 Cc: zack@owlfolio.org, 79419@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) "kpsewhich texinfo.tex" seems to be a way to get the correct path. Sometimes, but sometimes not, as I said. Then automake should have a way to pick them. It already does, seems to me. Put the file you want in place before the --add-missing run, using whatever method you want, and automake won't overwrite it. That seems way simpler and more general to me than creating a bunch of new paths or variables to be checked, just to avoid running a cp or ln command. I suspect the plethora of configuration required would just confuse people and/or lead to unintended behavior. Myself, I use the srclist-update script in gnulib/config/ to keep the common files in my source trees up to date. --best, karl. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 11 17:29:28 2025 Received: (at 79419) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2025 21:29:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45302 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwor9-0001Lz-Ll for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 17:29:27 -0400 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:41240 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwor6-0001La-Ah for 79419@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 17:29:25 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 58BLTL05044087 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 11 Sep 2025 15:29:21 -0600 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 58BLTLRT044086; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 15:29:21 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2025 15:29:21 -0600 Message-Id: <202509112129.58BLTLRT044086@freefriends.org> From: Karl Berry To: zack@owlfolio.org Subject: Re: bug#79419: "automake --add-missing" should not install an obsolete texinfo.tex file In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79419 Cc: vincent@vinc17.net, 79419@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) but what about a mode where it retrieves the latest version of each file that is frequently updated, directly from its official VCS source? It's useful, but seems far from Automake's core purpose. It seems better to me as a separate script than as part of Automake. And that script has already been written, more or less. It's what gnulib/config/srclist-update does, as to keep the common files up to date in gnulib -- so everyone else can just get them from there (gnulib) and not to have trawl around different repos. --thanks, karl. 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[207.135.66.162]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 98e67ed59e1d1-32dd990aa6dsm3401366a91.26.2025.09.11.15.37.28 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 11 Sep 2025 15:37:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Collin Funk To: Karl Berry Subject: Re: bug#79419: "automake --add-missing" should not install an obsolete texinfo.tex file In-Reply-To: <202509112129.58BLTLRT044086@freefriends.org> (Karl Berry's message of "Thu, 11 Sep 2025 15:29:21 -0600") References: <20250910101711.GD2807@qaa.vinc17.org> <202509112129.58BLTLRT044086@freefriends.org> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2025 15:37:26 -0700 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79419 Cc: zack@owlfolio.org, vincent@vinc17.net, 79419@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Karl Berry writes: > but what about a mode where it retrieves the latest version of > each file that is frequently updated, directly from its official VCS > source? > > It's useful, but seems far from Automake's core purpose. It seems better > to me as a separate script than as part of Automake. > > And that script has already been written, more or less. It's what > gnulib/config/srclist-update does, as to keep the common files up to > date in gnulib -- so everyone else can just get them from there (gnulib) > and not to have trawl around different repos. --thanks, karl. +1, it is probably just easier to pull in auxiliary files (e.g. config.sub, config.guess, texinfo.tex, etc.) from Gnulib. Since those will be updated daily with changes, if any. Also, ideally you would use a mirror to not make the Savannah situation worse. The Savannah git mirror works [1]. Or also the GitHub mirror maintained by GNU Coreutils maintainers [2]. Collin [1] https://https.git.savannah.gnu.org/git/gnulib.git [2] https://github.com/coreutils/gnulib From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 11 20:29:40 2025 Received: (at 79419) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Sep 2025 00:29:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46303 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwrfY-0003ht-8U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 20:29:40 -0400 Received: from joooj.vinc17.net ([155.133.131.76]:52862) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uwrfV-0003hj-WC for 79419@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2025 20:29:38 -0400 Received: from smtp-qaa.vinc17.net (135.197.67.86.rev.sfr.net [86.67.197.135]) by joooj.vinc17.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 86CB124F; Fri, 12 Sep 2025 02:29:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: by qaa.vinc17.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4206CCA0591; Fri, 12 Sep 2025 02:29:35 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2025 02:29:35 +0200 From: Vincent Lefevre To: Karl Berry Subject: Re: bug#79419: "automake --add-missing" should not install an obsolete texinfo.tex file Message-ID: <20250912002935.GC1928008@qaa.vinc17.org> References: <20250911085721.GL2688@qaa.vinc17.org> <202509112129.58BLTKeI044078@freefriends.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <202509112129.58BLTKeI044078@freefriends.org> X-Mailer-Info: https://www.vinc17.net/mutt/ User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.13+86 (bb2064ae) vl-169878 (2025-02-08) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79419 Cc: zack@owlfolio.org, 79419@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2025-09-11 15:29:20 -0600, Karl Berry wrote: > Then automake should have a way to pick them. > > It already does, seems to me. Put the file you want in place before the > --add-missing run, using whatever method you want, and automake won't > overwrite it. This requires manual setup *each time* "automake --add-missing" needs to be used. -- Vincent Lefèvre - Web: 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Pascaline project (LIP, ENS-Lyon) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 12 18:09:54 2025 Received: (at 79419) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Sep 2025 22:09:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51576 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uxBxq-0004qi-Hw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2025 18:09:54 -0400 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:57638 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uxBxn-0004qT-FD for 79419@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2025 18:09:51 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 58CM9n4L055198 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 12 Sep 2025 16:09:49 -0600 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 58CM9nm2055197; Fri, 12 Sep 2025 16:09:49 -0600 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2025 16:09:49 -0600 Message-Id: <202509122209.58CM9nm2055197@freefriends.org> From: Karl Berry To: vincent@vinc17.net, 79419@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#79419: "automake --add-missing" should not install an obsolete texinfo.tex file In-Reply-To: <20250912002935.GC1928008@qaa.vinc17.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79419 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Vincent, This requires manual setup *each time* "automake --add-missing" needs to be used. Well, or writing a tiny script to do whatever you want to do. That's the real solution, it seems to me. For texinfo.tex in particular, you could possibly use the TEXINFO_TEX variable, as I wrote before. I see no viable alternative in general. I don't want to create new configuration variables for every file. Sorry. -k From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 12 19:49:06 2025 Received: (at 79419) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Sep 2025 23:49:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51759 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uxDVq-0002YR-BH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2025 19:49:06 -0400 Received: from joooj.vinc17.net ([155.133.131.76]:45574) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uxDVg-0002Xa-S6 for 79419@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2025 19:49:02 -0400 Received: from smtp-qaa.vinc17.net (135.197.67.86.rev.sfr.net [86.67.197.135]) by joooj.vinc17.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5B98C171; Sat, 13 Sep 2025 01:48:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: by qaa.vinc17.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 620B4CA0592; Sat, 13 Sep 2025 01:48:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2025 01:48:53 +0200 From: Vincent Lefevre To: Karl Berry Subject: Re: bug#79419: "automake --add-missing" should not install an obsolete texinfo.tex file Message-ID: <20250912234853.GK1928008@qaa.vinc17.org> References: <20250912002935.GC1928008@qaa.vinc17.org> <202509122209.58CM9nm2055197@freefriends.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <202509122209.58CM9nm2055197@freefriends.org> X-Mailer-Info: https://www.vinc17.net/mutt/ User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.13+86 (bb2064ae) vl-169878 (2025-02-08) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79419 Cc: 79419@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2025-09-12 16:09:49 -0600, Karl Berry wrote: > Hi Vincent, > > This requires manual setup *each time* "automake --add-missing" needs > to be used. > > Well, or writing a tiny script to do whatever you want to do. That's the > real solution, it seems to me. Having something that works with any 3rd-party project is difficult, while "automake --add-missing" (actually called via "autoreconf -f") is relatively standard. > For texinfo.tex in particular, you could possibly use the TEXINFO_TEX > variable, as I wrote before. TEXINFO_TEX is intended for packages that have their own texinfo.tex file. And this is even wrong, because the idea is to update the file with "autoreconf -f". -- Vincent Lefèvre - Web: 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Pascaline project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)