From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 30 07:54:08 2025 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Aug 2025 11:54:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45967 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1usK9n-0000HG-So for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2025 07:54:08 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:59612) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1usK9k-0000Gj-0z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2025 07:54:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1usK9d-0001jd-Kj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2025 07:53:57 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x32c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32c]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1usK9a-0001Hd-BE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2025 07:53:56 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-45b7d87b90fso15129375e9.0 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2025 04:53:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1756554832; x=1757159632; darn=gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:subject:to:from:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=8EuY9HpsNJ/8qB1/6pW5zS6zKuZhYj5THQeRb+Gvs4M=; b=EhiQWukvePB+BfAt4XaNgvMlpdrjF8vvmvbFt1aZ8X/QxUMjB2PAxpzUHwzBPPjl1P pLBIMZgLA4R/Cr/l3yQ1Qr1UEehOYIdkVlmWauosCzCEESDXExcFQId7QF3IQ0O6LzGE xiAq/RIDwC4epooaCR3cW9ZdjjOqR32Ouki1lXg/5HsCcLsx3IoMc7dDBJtR0cCS/VGk 6CPG27VsmEmOls1MWr95Z0Es6ZQ5s94Wc6yDmG5UzE6dn0oW6UI3FKpAnTYXnxvPwvDS T55K6J/0uX7KqH1YulOT8PuzBkj6UvsrHRi66agc8LnqIw5K+mDGg45AH7dxnCDBxCbW dqHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1756554832; x=1757159632; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:subject:to:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=8EuY9HpsNJ/8qB1/6pW5zS6zKuZhYj5THQeRb+Gvs4M=; b=xAPUagzia77qH8kuudeX1N+0g6AJGKHmoqCy3pId4xN2lEjxJk/1WpJcIoJfbN8nBY fdfaDKX0bV0EbL7IRTtMEyjEOQjGM6oFz3GZ7kbNV3DBwV7tILv7u0oJRwodFKlPVGZX ezSF4UfejtjqXCq0A9ywVyqyaDHi7Xl7Jyl2SJpbnzBrOpzQb98AuekY91Rcm310bThn 1picMNEh0cs48GHLue3T7bje+J+gLT99HH1flWey3+EpTKVjEVTkdulCDPHrK49hyUI+ SMN7g4Z3wHtoISqv+J4P/HL6f+NuWK+5yRS7g80D3A2Bku7T6NVmLJOberSuCEkI4jTX 6EKg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzqP8X4OgV8S0CWsGLjbtKaKQm9Ztbn1odeFXXIpeDgb3temn76 HS0yDzMwkZI70tP3DL4VCYdxUfOu2mP5ekRgqt1774UXLxKRzjXnin7219uyiA== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct791edUD0UP5pPu5VUX0Fgw3SlmuVfCHX8Q8BAKs505UyCgnTOl2DlP+RSakr X8Lu2T+XJbWl8TdPbgIzMr9/A3QPIGTdQv9ljcZsvKKLNURI52BXsNjQC3Mv4R57Cm/s2fFbq0y yeIbC+YXWyxtWqoWgx6jtgsHnIeRYjG+1O0peEQMG5HdIFDEkrOwyQpxsw4HkqkbfK6QTWo8JGr tJTg11UxI1qqfsAfc+xo72/9WXVcrgw89vop+6/RuRAEoSZ7qIDUC/TGq5qJ5U4lNwEAWqCvNOB ThMUEUaDp0vwhBIbQYY9gRl+nfw0wXQuN+2AMwKcvdzXcGUBDStswNtKNqE2eU/wXn8yu1kqv/M cn5/eWIk8OPeFTeRD3n5jSjPCY8SksOc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFyxFe4oVhxFzk69k03ObtBu3XoxKCxUeuD2K0EnEWVeVHEcdyfZdQ0dyj8kGrIhWk5qzaDmQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:17d8:b0:456:1146:5c01 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-45b84c586e8mr11360995e9.12.1756554831803; Sat, 30 Aug 2025 04:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3cf270fc0a8sm6857386f8f.7.2025.08.30.04.53.51 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 30 Aug 2025 04:53:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld X-Debbugs-Cc: Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2025 13:53:50 +0200 Message-ID: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32c; envelope-from=eller.helmut@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) When I set igc-step-interval like so (setq igc-step-interval 0.05) and in GDB add a breakpoint in PolicyShouldCollectWorld with dprintf policy.c:195,"availableTime: %f collectionTime: %f sinceLastWorldCollect: %f", availableTime, collectionTime, sinceLastWorldCollect [With the debug build of MPS. availableTime is not available in optimized builds.] I see output like: availableTime: 50000.000000 collectionTime: 1.078059 sinceLastWorldCollect: 6.623319 It seems that availableTime and collectionTime use different units: availableTime is in clocks while collectionTime is in seconds. So the test availableTime > collectionTime doesn't make much sense. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 30 14:37:29 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Aug 2025 18:37:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49772 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1usQS8-0000om-Tb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2025 14:37:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50322) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1usQS5-0000oX-Fj for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2025 14:37:26 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1usQRz-0000fT-RF; Sat, 30 Aug 2025 14:37:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=JKC5YD/KAHEH3bWdhzA4sHdwsWlcsPzVRXxO1rqxqUU=; b=BJsZgPTkXHtJ 5xRnpMvJoyVfBfVCzAM2EHgNCF9bX/nUd2ZnyImymAiXN8+8mxafWUl/jQjYigPdmO2Z0SrJpVeE6 MtWvVnYFnoma7JFpXc/XkdtsWbZqb9nmrqB2mwyyNgUQdHOBtA+hgxwLhX9ue8h87RJWSDzx03Q+b cEdSrTL26nXEHJy5PstZWtB6PbC/fNrCM5xfsuQLJUIrLSNJEWs2QgevNMPbd9Lwy9EHLKoZ3bVh1 fuo1b/ZWSVQYZrAGGsr1WfubdwUqvMh3JM6lrx8IoRxnu/grGb1X7iqXdqMS8hEC3MO/SFxfqpKt2 ZvmNc2+r+KsYHhlYSLaK8w==; Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2025 21:37:16 +0300 Message-Id: <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Sat, 30 Aug 2025 13:53:50 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2025 13:53:50 +0200 > > When I set igc-step-interval like so > > (setq igc-step-interval 0.05) > > and in GDB add a breakpoint in PolicyShouldCollectWorld with > > dprintf policy.c:195,"availableTime: %f collectionTime: %f sinceLastWorldCollect: %f", availableTime, collectionTime, sinceLastWorldCollect > > [With the debug build of MPS. availableTime is not available in > optimized builds.] > > I see output like: > > availableTime: 50000.000000 collectionTime: 1.078059 sinceLastWorldCollect: 6.623319 > > It seems that availableTime and collectionTime use different units: > availableTime is in clocks while collectionTime is in seconds. > > So the test availableTime > collectionTime doesn't make much sense. Since I don't see such comparison anywhere in Emacs, I presume you are talking about a bug in MPS? Or what did I miss? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 31 03:32:36 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Aug 2025 07:32:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51800 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uscYF-0003qx-VG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 03:32:36 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::434]:45199) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uscYD-0003qj-Ef for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 03:32:34 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3cdfb1ff7aeso1654056f8f.2 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 00:32:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1756625547; x=1757230347; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=a5wLQPKaXKhuTpfXOX7Bi9savwZfVkxHgvEmA+5Q3E0=; b=Y+uHkYFrhzwALenw3IUdmXPCbG20bje9OzSPssM8WZFqlAs8h5XdQHQwezCqIYCUkS ecPOm5w4pvQfDIlDrjF2uQIjT3o+uSW+Gkv30YNXKd0mgotXozNDHhwFQ8qRyM3AQb+T ERH+/BodybW8bQDXW8Qi1IYXH00wzI9Q+N9yNyn2eEBEvCMmKZpweT0skAoIAcZk2asj 70yvJ7k3dfzpuwvQTYQ/SBT2RAmsx2eKS6xU3S1s/hN/YPkgOOYTT7fAFcLAwnzIyF+F S4M+m3x1TDCrRpVLNAhZ+rBTTA5rJ6gWSJehIJGYXAPdtq5LTfd71KoY5busyZgCcUHQ sxKA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1756625547; x=1757230347; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=a5wLQPKaXKhuTpfXOX7Bi9savwZfVkxHgvEmA+5Q3E0=; b=a4DelRWgMqnPPopwVMOYPvNvWR3Qh4Ky3obacc+Hf1BEpM+FG04hAR7WJ56/q+Kvds wPRHRvE2/jaUheAc2AS/GQrNryGhUl9lL4eVV514ipqRdGrNXat3M7k6FIjNs1jUBTM3 0CmTv0LWb8SL3/Qu2C5XY+8dLuOobN/Pw84Y9948ov0EWUBjGVmN026AoXHeLp5eKK28 WLMSlf6lZO90AQoN0YWELw9mc9wQnxmrIyQB1yKlcZsDGWOoU0yqaWoP12rOREJY7re8 3a0qvW0MXO6QwK/a7gq//5AA4drajpLtaRg7drhPz9+SWrPpsNpgxctkQI2lzlW4WRlC jr3g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw+omiVKPykKkxpJg20ilp6nJPs4UCtozSkUh5cjjTpli0XYIII 7cmBZPebbTI7ppNf3LisSYrfOUdh0OSzWSYqKicwCnUJP3W+iv5egyX7bz2LzQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvnaOBqIWOZ+g+vWO9XFotXMWEcZKpe2sWq0fpfXg3Lb+MG7wAVDWumL7NaX+g 8kCMUI21hcWPrFWAV7LCcTdISIWFrEHMRhOLsEVHqhVAct66QKTEFPDCyEiVj53VTOrwjvIwKD8 OQWzlEDVkCx9b+ZgnxYlYVOxD70BiHoX0FMm50LbL4rcPatkbKi161R56qhoAz8xPvv1E/N5R0n ZQgZSRWWPNT8h00TSHaWwcwCYxVozWb3pUG5wZ7moO5WHaNXvRTLPeMUK1aqMDgHwrCywsIHpw4 iAAm90QNHgLM2tniLg85ktVVOKX7z8pEdTKLHPZAQXhVlG62QT+hyZO2lgCWnJYDjUlRpupUAxr r7m5Xv94+ATGve/dyVro+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHJwexuTRUt4xuUEXrrDVyGX4sR2VoexTvq4lkqYR+RfHdFSSlmNH7zd/fOB7YHMtJZ20SeAA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:2884:b0:3b7:9214:6d73 with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3d1de4b56b5mr2543706f8f.20.1756625546735; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 00:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3cf33add294sm10488692f8f.29.2025.08.31.00.32.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 31 Aug 2025 00:32:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2025 09:32:24 +0200 Message-ID: <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sat, Aug 30 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> It seems that availableTime and collectionTime use different units: >> availableTime is in clocks while collectionTime is in seconds. >> >> So the test availableTime > collectionTime doesn't make much sense. > > Since I don't see such comparison anywhere in Emacs, I presume you are > talking about a bug in MPS? Or what did I miss? Yes, the comparison is in PolicyShouldCollectWorld. The call chain is usually: timer_check_2 -> igc_on_idle -> mps_arena_step -> ArenaStep -> PolicyShouldCollectWorld. It looks like the bug is in ArenaStep: it should divide the by clocks_per_second before calling PolicyShouldCollectWorld. Helmut From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 31 04:36:04 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Aug 2025 08:36:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51932 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1usdXf-00073R-Ri for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 04:36:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37396) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1usdXd-00072u-Cg for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 04:36:01 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1usdXY-0008FG-3G; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 04:35:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=sLZ5pkydlz2dRGVNgWIF9QEDwBViFILPwf6FJVZxXag=; b=qt2363ZE6lpP qy+Y5QrUBpM/lKugG1F6NATXghLKcDlXz+6MlPsDbfHRz8S4Por35oTWlmvtRpfxSwOFMpn3Qyx9Y 1OiVQPlce46F1VHBO4RfO7gHPFDBRrN+5pmifqSxPAicMxn7F/Sj1+7A5vIz1U179JrrEz8e9JLWY JC0HEE8jmEi8Z1MSS67UgC1ztrF/dFt0W2ppwJsfeDbJPajXHtaYZssbkjgRInMszjkENReoR7ZAk ta1+UANfN1XxVVUfg2HLRQLPB6WJiJXqm/13gI9nM0S5B6CfyKXLK5Vcnsbky5rcSQBzckXvlm8g5 FrtbqgxG63vjE4i99yMuwQ==; Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2025 11:35:52 +0300 Message-Id: <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Sun, 31 Aug 2025 09:32:24 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Cc: 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2025 09:32:24 +0200 > > On Sat, Aug 30 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> It seems that availableTime and collectionTime use different units: > >> availableTime is in clocks while collectionTime is in seconds. > >> > >> So the test availableTime > collectionTime doesn't make much sense. > > > > Since I don't see such comparison anywhere in Emacs, I presume you are > > talking about a bug in MPS? Or what did I miss? > > Yes, the comparison is in PolicyShouldCollectWorld. The call chain is > usually: timer_check_2 -> igc_on_idle -> mps_arena_step -> ArenaStep -> > PolicyShouldCollectWorld. > > It looks like the bug is in ArenaStep: it should divide the by > clocks_per_second before calling PolicyShouldCollectWorld. What does this affect in Emacs? And is this relevant to using a non-debug build of the library? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 31 05:22:03 2025 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Aug 2025 09:22:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51977 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1useGA-0000ao-QY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 05:22:03 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:40038) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1useG8-0000aG-EP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 05:22:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1useG0-0005K3-9a for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 05:21:53 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1useFy-00053j-S9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 05:21:52 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1useFv-0001Cj-4O for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 11:21:47 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Helmut Eller Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2025 11:21:41 +0200 Message-ID: <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cancel-Lock: sha1:8BymwmmvoJ+euI0fVe7zkF1PIZE= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Sun, Aug 31 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> It looks like the bug is in ArenaStep: it should divide the by >> clocks_per_second before calling PolicyShouldCollectWorld. > > What does this affect in Emacs? This affects how often MPS begins opportunistic GC, i.e. it affects only sessions where igc-step-interval > 0. Because of the bug, full collections are started more frequently because availableTime > collectionTime is true more often. (availableTime is 10^6 times bigger than it should be.) The documentation of PolicyShouldCollectWorld says that it starts a full collection only if it expects that the full collection can be completed within availableTime (= igc-step-interval) and if enough time (= per process time) has passed since the last full collection. > And is this relevant to using a non-debug build of the library? Yes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 31 05:30:53 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Aug 2025 09:30:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52000 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1useOj-00014X-GD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 05:30:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36388) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1useOh-00014F-HC for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 05:30:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1useOb-0008Te-S8; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 05:30:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ttOmKsyRTOmZnPTihU5T3VgAL2vBtHooS1x9Fx/eq2w=; b=JmaG/pdZeoj9 +/wM/SbdwOJuxheCYZp25lGSa5RAL0ZFdcvOIstMtTjn6xmb0Xccz62w6wdz+EBdJ1XQsMszUItbt F1xJOC9KPDstqbfp3kNWPuV80aum8quxs7tW/l5N68wApjslZgUlZgjVvpMd8pyBIWaK6BLaSgt2h zaENJ7QJDUmVIFX+wIGCPDk96LNZooA1gtCLRYxnff2WLow+axoTWD8pt4/3mIjni7vWBni5ogp1s 1Mn0jRYCt/eK0b31+7aLnN7U4tQJS8qCukhK4TW3te8/uBSp53QF15r2MXA1qi1gi4VwLk9LpapbP dkUT1UXjm/Oe+/Zoba+d9Q==; Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2025 12:30:43 +0300 Message-Id: <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Sun, 31 Aug 2025 11:21:41 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2025 11:21:41 +0200 > > On Sun, Aug 31 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> It looks like the bug is in ArenaStep: it should divide the by > >> clocks_per_second before calling PolicyShouldCollectWorld. > > > > What does this affect in Emacs? > > This affects how often MPS begins opportunistic GC, i.e. it affects only > sessions where igc-step-interval > 0. > > Because of the bug, full collections are started more frequently because > availableTime > collectionTime is true more often. (availableTime is > 10^6 times bigger than it should be.) > > The documentation of PolicyShouldCollectWorld says that it starts a full > collection only if it expects that the full collection can be completed > within availableTime (= igc-step-interval) and if enough time (= per > process time) has passed since the last full collection. > > > And is this relevant to using a non-debug build of the library? > > Yes. OK, thanks. I guess it will be interesting to see what happens if people use a patched MPS with this bug fixed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 03 23:15:04 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2025 03:15:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44250 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uu0RD-0004k1-Gp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Sep 2025 23:15:03 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x630.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::630]:49516) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uu0R8-0004jA-JS for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Sep 2025 23:15:01 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x630.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b0473327e70so90315766b.3 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 03 Sep 2025 20:14:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1756955692; x=1757560492; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=4dMHSbmd1HLsUdXaWMgcPLp2Z1/gQtKfzb0qAZkhjf8=; b=Q0mk19KhjoUaMFxBy2YWlH5WYSM63nsAvmKKGl9ysrBNiz/EdRXk0I5/6pYsxfa39+ zJGOaIeWoXw3ESMsy3G9TBQl2FWXzovT9OwAdi19xPzwWb0/TpEbBWnHoburqqFS/2WK yWJvdvPNQv44gT271Byio2pKfEC2jJ8gJcFc9mv2tODH6otdeTdAMe0dVdX4LOPWLIgk yNTSKHVUo+yfCeN5H2nwrHQTnTQmUZTQnLkQcyNFjepR+xpuaxr9adyvINwm8520RhmQ JQGsJ1R074bT4PbxC2yPdr3f6MlabhSowEtySoShvNQ/b6w7BpY0rk1CF/DpiXOjM9hy YheQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1756955692; x=1757560492; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=4dMHSbmd1HLsUdXaWMgcPLp2Z1/gQtKfzb0qAZkhjf8=; b=VqAmACHO404H5GYL2QhivKlMjhyTsbIX0Z09aEasu15i8pDorf/bwo3b085+O8FvyX oR9ZdC1xPYEyMs/VrO0SwerTpNrMUCrNGvfDBx9AXL+xzXITPDBsWjgmouLJefUjifMJ q53UbgiYu40mKEi9JoTmWlr/qv2/XdgE3CWP6vuz7+o40SLPkZYyq9+O1NQsJM8/aId0 4hnQjMAKf9C5VyDo2msmxOUQ1Xr+AIy43i4a6/7isH4mjh5JphGewS+PYXsFtzDL48Vg z33t44+SDHQZCKaDc9C6L8OhXq3mwJjDjonqDRGW/eDCvp7lzs3cj7h67lEXpgVj7K/H J2hQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCV7QvbLivbybKW9I3dEXWo7VYsBLP3cN/fpwsR9+A7hZulvFJ+pHL6DYsAV6R2Y5BZ7CLpkCg==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxOQP1Wg3Yq1ceP929nNXs5qMh5Tjil2HJF46Y6Fh0AaUzfC/82 /CjnZTHfRWYP3YBg//PFZi0eVBPMyN/DulnWy5KXFX2fdU+wQ2pmc54Dg6Ct4w== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctzQrezgheSOCDD10IxeFYbctBemTzXbYdAIuNgKXp3ojxJkfrPcFiA8WqSA9y Q2wZFdN5fjosVJaDqBSqyd45v6w1pgBCQ5JFHTWlPF+RR1sfP/4bsP6sRcRh2WaMV722sQeU6gX lB8LenZzQOkFD6XmUa8c7H2c0w1UIvDlTtujY36zWGvYhl/pCIJCMJortXmDpBnCLprUAlSiewN 54ORPuYCWNsWVw3Jmt5zzH4WspkEmXFpYp0rnOmh2+Ub47LyJO3gvicfiLmdqsuc11axqpCEx6/ qU1WaqVbEbLjjclQauZGjvECfHq8JiBAgLqdRd+zYeRLZADiNx+FGFRdCQPlqbKuZiPJp7veabj XhNnD26hqqeEp1aCM0ML7TPHv57CRMntQekVH+LaSo+hGwDrIjDsLTvuei2L20OOzAuKqSx3BQh lVH3p7s9lp61Arcegb8rMsqMtBDQIRRC27aDYv X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFe7ZItLiQq6Q/j7s91YN1U+xMUihchM/jEm6c74QIJkblWz5GNXgHXh7IWngoMrR9qpZTlaw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:5a68:b0:b04:6ebf:695f with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b046ebf6aa4mr299541966b.44.1756955691833; Wed, 03 Sep 2025 20:14:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro2 (p200300e0b706b30070f6135e4b81aba8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b706:b300:70f6:135e:4b81:aba8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b040e6845f8sm1120795966b.51.2025.09.03.20.14.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 03 Sep 2025 20:14:51 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Helmut Eller Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2025 05:14:49 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Helmut Eller >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2025 11:21:41 +0200 >> >> On Sun, Aug 31 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> >> It looks like the bug is in ArenaStep: it should divide the by >> >> clocks_per_second before calling PolicyShouldCollectWorld. >> > >> > What does this affect in Emacs? >> >> This affects how often MPS begins opportunistic GC, i.e. it affects only >> sessions where igc-step-interval > 0. >> >> Because of the bug, full collections are started more frequently because >> availableTime > collectionTime is true more often. (availableTime is >> 10^6 times bigger than it should be.) >> >> The documentation of PolicyShouldCollectWorld says that it starts a full >> collection only if it expects that the full collection can be completed >> within availableTime (= igc-step-interval) and if enough time (= per >> process time) has passed since the last full collection. >> >> > And is this relevant to using a non-debug build of the library? >> >> Yes. > > OK, thanks. I guess it will be interesting to see what happens if > people use a patched MPS with this bug fixed. Good find, Helmut. There used to be a comment in arena_step wondering what's going on, but it got removed, apparently. Does this look right? --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Fix-bug-calculating-available-time-in-ArenaStep.patch >From 061b20ded1a35c674ad77b5afc7e68e753da1a3d Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: =?UTF-8?q?Gerd=20M=C3=B6llmann?= Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2025 04:50:26 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Fix bug calculating available time in ArenaStep * code/global.c (ArenaStep): Divide time by clocks_per_sec. --- code/global.c | 2 +- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/code/global.c b/code/global.c index 6c7cd39b9..6595fb6df 100644 --- a/code/global.c +++ b/code/global.c @@ -789,7 +789,7 @@ Bool ArenaStep(Globals globals, double interval, double multiplier) trace = ArenaTrace(arena, (TraceId)0); } else { /* No traces are running: consider collecting the world. */ - if (PolicyShouldCollectWorld(arena, (double)(availableEnd - now), now, + if (PolicyShouldCollectWorld(arena, (double)(availableEnd - now)/clocks_per_sec, now, clocks_per_sec)) { Res res; -- 2.51.0 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 04 03:32:39 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2025 07:32:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45020 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uu4SV-0001wZ-Df for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 03:32:39 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x334.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::334]:45520) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uu4SQ-0001wG-Od for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 03:32:36 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x334.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-45b79ec2fbeso4449385e9.3 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 00:32:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1756971148; x=1757575948; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=MTOgmqiI/ZHonT/MCLLkVDGLTQ9z2TY+v4rTccTqZZM=; b=mRw/nsiz7dJIgoFa8OWD5eiz7NjeyLZKkT5RFv1ma9vBWeGWSwL1YJSCfkkzBJUIxc mlrAPrcmxfGgRgSH6/xOUoOZBltE8nPmJj8Rb0x+45ZdsX9jcKBJEhOqM+0zWwYeKMkw z0VxZM3v6s7Fo4mc7ECeYqpLCCI1lVioSu4PSuSld+ocV7RpwPVwE7u3zGtZ5/d6lCi0 xrds8RToZJO00DqYjB4avT5xiHcIJlV12+EklxFCY6duvYzTWUXwrVf740RfoYk7OZcX nd+ruSJZjO+ozrgQeYoOL0miERtVIaen55zjHIFOU4aPkXi99xFGYS3Om2pU0zYx4utL iPcQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1756971148; x=1757575948; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=MTOgmqiI/ZHonT/MCLLkVDGLTQ9z2TY+v4rTccTqZZM=; b=ZYBJc/kiAsYN4m+ifu5bm6Ap/MgMVg+/O/3KhGZXujmxE7insaB6fslxvI4xe5rPw2 KNz7DN7/ssOafcDyojzGvE1cFPV9LLXj/aLNaQYmwKwBLH4OfvnwPmXc06BP9fOjeYzU aVa2ooCJyRkM1MxMzT1fZmdTkgWbCDm+IVtBToC7xjrH32ljax7B6Tf3j7mHxTWU7Ouj D331S0xbCW6FLPRyVC4LoREBzg60kNjz8ZystrQADeBHETGdyAtLUexInQTVNhCUPeOm C51mH5kGHc8hu7Aua71cy/HyC9Y7bavVo8/D0D2NXfKRBo0l9W/FzseOYUA8escvp7On lvVw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVcobHZzhLuAORRjK5Pot/Jq5E5RKvheOk38ws9vun6wE7ecXspPuR6rapda59zt/oOUwcSYA==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwF9ojQjOPAUvKAoPZ6F8r2lTvUHGcCjb7+NwXDN/v3cHF6dHLK EVmUgoIjJs+LwpP0YlySfXr13fkhae+v6CB8lrBjxSLByCFyEMBx38Ufac16gA== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvLwGUq6nnqU83wPXWXRv/ioYTe/uWMoPaeMLrOzD0IGLt4YZgGYm/Eyms25sv UXTPomOqiygAqYsmgnlS+XXT7naAGuTpmjSpgZKMAeY4Cs6PstJu0VLtnN6ptEGFGrxfNT/lLhd hBfZUJBKF2L+bpU9+6LMzONd0x2NiOHSii7aT5rd4Ir0L2dbpc/8zh8BTh+nRarqO9y9YIbsDcG /s6FVH9vgAmQTB2oX3KpKDHud0IdnXq4x4WjtXRoZMj8E9DNTv6H7PX3wLkiIy2tRV0pTisI+oq CVHLBatwOzPuzExvedLgVufk/0PhSt1p++C0FpUxBj6l4bKi+oeFZDDe1UsEchs2EHlc+k3/jFE ogAB/GtXEA/mczFjEbHNt X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFIrSlL60Hh4YqkolqNXf7rCy/4Bi8yyCgU4nqf4hyki6nKJfaorq1GS7HYdotndrZIsgL2Rw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4f89:b0:45b:8f11:8de3 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-45b8f118fc2mr129530155e9.16.1756971148049; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 00:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3cf276d204asm26792225f8f.24.2025.09.04.00.32.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 04 Sep 2025 00:32:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2025 09:32:25 +0200 Message-ID: <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, Sep 04 2025, Gerd M=C3=B6llmann wrote: > Good find, Helmut. There used to be a comment in arena_step wondering > what's going on, but it got removed, apparently. Does this look right? LGTM. BTW, in igc_on_idle, arena_step is called repeatedly as long as work_done is true. Note that buffer_step sets work_done to true until the buffer iterator is exhausted. So arena_step is called for each buffer. That seems a bit excessive. What would you think of making mps_arena_step and perhaps buffer_step available from Lisp so that those things can be called from Lisp-level idle timers? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 04 03:46:16 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2025 07:46:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45039 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uu4ff-0002a9-P0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 03:46:16 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x632.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::632]:56574) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uu4fb-0002Zt-3K for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 03:46:13 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x632.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b042cc3962aso110927066b.0 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 00:46:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1756971964; x=1757576764; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=qa/jZBZdG/MgqdUeRUfwBQhZe5JmikZ5VluX0fL+drk=; b=VaY7woUQTN6JtMo7NjudYGOPSKo0eTHGcKBA0BLPn7hq76ITP0l8m2mdvNrsSHgjsd 2VnDQNzvssdp7z7rudUC7rfj9GYxIOYf+3Hlvp52f8CH2UoP66qtV9fydYxsFutwS/Su 6DG4XlcLk9nWYPnrs1jljbnJTiuz9lLB+up+sHPy7hkHB5yL/rdJdmCFbEQ2pN+aqky+ zWijK/feD64WVf+KOtsL5Xq5KPgJuWZvNQdaWMqPscb0hkLCIhXDZN+0h46UuZyc5JyE RvS92trwH41T7+/R+9AmmmSC9LboRJ2vXhgeJv28I4qpgfvR1ASDcJvXvanyNtO3afEE gsMA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1756971964; x=1757576764; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=qa/jZBZdG/MgqdUeRUfwBQhZe5JmikZ5VluX0fL+drk=; b=F3vcsp34lv78bhGIwym4IoMA5Uvn7j37jC1qZu6m6ck21FqUmO2+b7PU8r/Tu0njpC ppFt/IprqNcQHEHtSdLS3t6qfQ8gSUiLIJrwNJCILSI7f2pj+kweuuSFtbrindSgqlBA JGhjC1czEzKLM/Up0yv/Qf1QLYV09furcQ05hfkdON62n4N+OVsBEYyPrlQVFzVoHR0S xF1fLlL2ni7TqAjFnP5IozuR/cgcH4vLa74F+W7wNja3TIXCZtcfmhos59w+yHZdvy0n 7CcxfEzceEuxRRFyqu3RGshFvFEYlT2epKW8QyePtLCItWnDwBE0SX4xrgNWCWU9CkQZ nqeQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCX3fHuruWqWC6eI1t8fhNB4Yno/WHw1trr2LiZ67hscy4Xgqpweqk1Da4maHlgSnqEICmDhYg==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy6AfL/D82y0OjoULOsK2nJZDLfWDv9jPm6RP4F9sDtINWBVYXB nI1Lk9+9irhk4Gk4J3ggGuTQIKfAD6kRYhiyLZ/jw99e3hTKA6AhSHmNtF9wAQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvflYOWseMtzcfX+tLg1PlrVEenk8sAUVXyBf3yOGsvQKJj7TERWdKxYyTlelX Cw/GDpBoVPV8+6X/12Q88kyWPSoOOxs+AlOC7vmUWdeqG468stbervkFqd7/vOSRTmbnVAYfgMb V6NoXvHWR1LliX6pEDZxpqXmJZXWvgugSvIZ6m4piBVBbKyMYD38ZLuTBNsc2eDdYDCk3fKsexU qnWRq7fxTVXH38lkYdbSliktZWANZcn+sEc6WCm7ya0WsxE2sHKmescg6cdIPUhHUE1cYdc917d qkmth/vRsAJnYwrmJacinzUqIkyG0tt75fpqGq2nANyZIiMXt5LkaEr+cAGVvKjV/7LygNNplgR jGM7xSqsezk1YqoltPXqmdhPyM07jDaI8KNqdtVhSCoWBlYfSEUoiR2IFivskZhccBEI4U+24XW QOptkkFx+CyNRU4dsp+/z1P9MCmc6ub3nU1OpL X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHJ5tzHcQq8FBglYkJGizQKp6dd6QXUg/R0Fbx66h5A1JllQC57Lcx/7HdsgjlfLe1iDNsM1w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3f28:b0:afc:cc64:86da with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b01d8c9073amr1673446066b.26.1756971963892; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 00:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro2 (p200300e0b706b30070f6135e4b81aba8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b706:b300:70f6:135e:4b81:aba8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b04709b3effsm275151966b.5.2025.09.04.00.46.03 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 04 Sep 2025 00:46:03 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Helmut Eller Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2025 09:46:02 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Helmut Eller writes: > On Thu, Sep 04 2025, Gerd M=C3=B6llmann wrote: >> Good find, Helmut. There used to be a comment in arena_step wondering >> what's going on, but it got removed, apparently. Does this look right? > > LGTM. I've also made an issue for that https://github.com/Ravenbrook/mps/issues/308 > BTW, in igc_on_idle, arena_step is called repeatedly as long as > work_done is true. Note that buffer_step sets work_done to true until > the buffer iterator is exhausted. So arena_step is called for each > buffer. That seems a bit excessive. > > What would you think of making mps_arena_step and perhaps buffer_step > available from Lisp so that those things can be called from Lisp-level > idle timers? Sounds like a good idea. I think there quite some areas one could and probably should play more with (ignoring the fact that Andrea made it a feature branch; maybe we should rename it back to a scratch branch? :-)). Anyway, the number and size of generations is such a thing. I've been playing with that on and off and I think I found a setting that works noticeably smoother than the default. I've made me something that makes it easier to play with: static bool read_gens (mps_gen_param_s **gens, int *ngens) { const char *env =3D getenv ("EMACS_IGC_GENS"); if (env =3D=3D NULL) return false; const char *verbose =3D getenv ("EMACS_IGC_VERBOSE"); const char *end =3D env + strlen (env); static struct mps_gen_param_s parms[10]; *ngens =3D 0; *gens =3D parms; for (int i =3D 0; i < ARRAYELTS (parms) && env < end; ++i) { int nchars; if (sscanf (env, "%zu %lf%n", &parms[i].mps_capacity, &parms[i].mps_mortality, &nchars) =3D=3D 2) { if (verbose) fprintf (stderr, "gen %d: %zu %lf\n", i, parms[i].mps_capacity, parms[i].mps_mortality); env +=3D nchars; ++*ngens; } } return true; } static void make_arena (struct igc *gc) { mps_res_t res; MPS_ARGS_BEGIN (args) { res =3D mps_arena_create_k (&gc->arena, mps_arena_class_vm (), args); } MPS_ARGS_END (args); IGC_CHECK_RES (res); mps_gen_param_s *gens; int ngens; if (!read_gens (&gens, &ngens)) { static mps_gen_param_s default_gens[] =3D { { 256000, 0.8 }, { 256000, 0.6 }, { 256000, 0.4 }, { 2 * 256000, 0.2 } }; gens =3D default_gens; ngens =3D ARRAYELTS (default_gens); } res =3D mps_chain_create (&gc->chain, gc->arena, ngens, gens); IGC_CHECK_RES (res); } From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 04 16:06:10 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2025 20:06:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49404 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuGDh-00029O-UR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 16:06:10 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x533.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::533]:52357) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuGDc-00028m-I0 for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 16:06:06 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x533.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61edf1686ffso2368554a12.0 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 13:06:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757016358; x=1757621158; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=MlTldWhipSp5Bu7mXSbHeH1uUb2YlqqmtUFBHrHyGog=; b=W2uVj4f8FrR7B7MsN7sO88YMawU7Xy2ZnZMKMzc0f2uJkFKFKcELlwAKM3jzxKxiOw cNe2IMSpFeR5Oz75d1VwQ1SBymqO4eY5/9H1o0FzOVnlm6GkNJCcRI8ofKR/qqeIdn1i LxNhU3ISnUnuowLMsrUgUdRmfmLNIAXzXJsupyK/0QLEGlaXwZItG8SwJ6+q1KnMjcsW EP+/8cxyFjzz0NVNXShPSqLvRdw42HZYNZqE4squUMUIy571HYTr8ME8xOokkLp3C8D7 qitN9pMFFBB9vcuq17CcrpICPQhqQcJ8M7DzU2jvZzqUdna99Pb22BZ/gORWiQmK+fUT 5pZQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757016358; x=1757621158; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=MlTldWhipSp5Bu7mXSbHeH1uUb2YlqqmtUFBHrHyGog=; b=WUM/lj0nnHVKcSBdk6aVxw20Bv+5Hx/WJlxxSgFLWs8zr+uCKMzfDbIT8vFvvvhert hQIFZouFS6ZeRTjgc/JVTaAFdIkQAMbmssPy6vsOKZKX+nme8LIvTT7bf2atQ8Ppu9gC oFX4hb+w6hsZZkhKdtc+95kxz15kHUnxLNlte63IgkafpJnDWzU2yrQZUfyClv8Tg+/T lSs+X8XL7CDCdZbZLG5l4nxAULVeb0m4MF99w00gFHTxwx4BQC2ptwpwtTuc6PDcWuJZ hl7kyxaySZZCbwaBdvDf0a9BITtZmC6H4c3fnYXIXGbrONGWM38cdHzbQYq6tnIcwV0t KzCw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCX3pQlOe8NC9rHsVI7bHof/siwSunmz4+Kz4JQndaS1OY0TVfsXwvR8aXUvlIunVIVMB0RxyA==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxdQJdtwpBppWg+Z78hHoqrFVXWHIaD1MCOb0Mh+qf5YgRfVIVe T0eBANaU0cFhzeKE5u3+KAPVSRaIVWeUQITTDv1nLVt/AXw5tVtCf6htPOG5rQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsl22hdRwWRTX1b9dHFMDwK0jyRI9oTd9V33Ijoq47m4WXeA7WtA/TFgZIGcII O8Srwt29kPqxNNOYpEnCAy2pU5jy1BdbNawJzJvwFo0W9RcLyB06xv6jiZxf4SF4LjkkWonyDgA mQ0Jr7yJy3/kOJxzqdcUHsN9OxHhyk6FRBBchWSKL316gbNOEWoLIsjU676P1LZ4OL0gjU1FSm2 cXy9BrXWBc6PLW+tgT3O7Iy0/b/acJJwUySFeBm9AUmEN7v9t8//DmU/QM/nZ51HWk4j2Ce4Hsi tnatajX7LkDepR/0TsTLo6/Zl4g24TACbvhNt/Dc4BfGWa8Rrc1HNbj3JSAMVqzY55DYh+GK4QE L5Na2uJ+gxrD3sXBeg2fgciqhFPN+dlw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEd1ZOcUGsiCJFiI4tkB09aZqJ607vxLbWyofv37YM6LrMlGdtgldjMIrBpvUdlzQM/CT357w== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:3514:b0:61d:90d:1431 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61d2699413dmr19394816a12.10.1757016357496; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 13:05:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-620d4517dd6sm603167a12.50.2025.09.04.13.05.56 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 04 Sep 2025 13:05:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2025 22:05:55 +0200 Message-ID: <87plc6gezg.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 04 2025, Gerd M=C3=B6llmann wrote: > Helmut Eller writes: [...] >> What would you think of making mps_arena_step and perhaps buffer_step >> available from Lisp so that those things can be called from Lisp-level >> idle timers? > > Sounds like a good idea. Below is a patch that does this. The idle timer waits 2 seconds, before it calls mps_arena_step. As usual, "idle time" is the time since the last command completed, i.e. 2 seconds must pass after a command before the idle timer fires. (Other timers or process filters don't reset "idle time"; only new commands do.) I think that should avoid the problem that I've seen where opportunistic GC was started while I was in the middle of typing something. The code uses a constant to predict the idle time; maybe one could to something a bit more clever; not sure if that would be worth the trouble. Regarding bug#76505 (or https://github.com/Ravenbrook/mps/issues/305), I now think that it's safe to call mps_arena_step with multiplier=3D0: The expression (availableEnd - now) never overflows because the invariant now <=3D intervalEnd <=3D availableEnd holds. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Call-mps_arena_step-from-a-Lisp-idle-timer.patch >From 629fef5cf92e6232288efb4c81097649da632e46 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Helmut Eller Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2025 21:04:40 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Call mps_arena_step from a Lisp idle timer * src/igc.c (Figc__arena_step): New defun. (arena_step, Vigc_step_interval): Deleted. (igc_on_idle): Don't call arena_step. (syms_of_igc): Register Sigc__arena_step. * lisp/emacs-lisp/igc.el (igc-start-idle-timer): New. (igc--idle-timer, igc--idle-delay, igc--step-interval) (igc--predict-idle-time, igc--on-idle): New code for opportunistic Gc. --- lisp/emacs-lisp/igc.el | 33 +++++++++++++++++++++ src/igc.c | 65 +++++++++++++++++++----------------------- 2 files changed, 62 insertions(+), 36 deletions(-) diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/igc.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/igc.el index de7aae9f4ee..f306db99a93 100644 --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/igc.el +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/igc.el @@ -388,6 +388,39 @@ igc-start-collecting-stats (setq igc--collect-timer (run-at-time nil secs #'igc--collect-stats-sqlite))))) + +;;; Opportunistic GC + +(defvar igc--idle-timer nil + "Idle timer to trigger oppurtunistic GC.") + +(defvar igc--idle-delay 2.0 + "Time, in seconds, to wait for `igc--idle-timer'.") + +(defvar igc--step-interval 0.01 + "Time, in seconds, MPS is allowed to use for one step.") + +(defun igc-start-idle-timer () + "Start a timer to do GC work while Emacs is idle." + (when igc--idle-timer + (cancel-timer igc--idle-timer)) + (setq igc--idle-timer + (run-with-idle-timer igc--idle-delay t #'igc--on-idle))) + +(defun igc--predict-idle-time () + (* igc--idle-delay 0.66)) + +(defun igc--on-idle () + (let* ((available-time (igc--predict-idle-time)) + (interval igc--step-interval) + (multiplier (floor (/ available-time interval)))) + (named-let step ((n multiplier)) + (let* ((work-to-do (igc--arena-step interval n))) + (when (and work-to-do + (> n 0) + (not (accept-process-output nil 0))) + (step (1- n))))))) + (provide 'igc) ;;; igc.el ends here. diff --git a/src/igc.c b/src/igc.c index 7a3961bc7cf..55fd133b954 100644 --- a/src/igc.c +++ b/src/igc.c @@ -4038,33 +4038,6 @@ buffer_it_next (struct igc_buffer_it *it) it->buf = Qnil; } -static bool -arena_step (void) -{ - /* mps_arena_step does not guarantee to return swiftly. And it seems - that it sometimes does an opportunistic full collection alleging - the client predicted lots of idle time. But it doesn't tell how - it comes to that conclusion. This is caused by bug#79346 in MPS. */ - if (!FIXNUMP (Vigc_step_interval) - || XFIXNUM (Vigc_step_interval) != 0) - { - double interval = 0; - if (NUMBERP (Vigc_step_interval)) - { - interval = XFLOATINT (Vigc_step_interval); - if (interval < 0) - interval = 0.05; - } - - /* 1.0 is the lowest possible value for the third argument to - mps_arena_step (bug#76505). */ - if (mps_arena_step (global_igc->arena, interval, 1.0)) - return true; - } - - return false; -} - static bool buffer_step (struct igc_buffer_it *it) { @@ -4118,7 +4091,6 @@ igc_on_idle (void) bool work_done = false; work_done |= process_one_message (global_igc); work_done |= buffer_step (&buffer_it); - work_done |= arena_step (); /* Don't always exhaust the max time we want to spend here. */ if (!work_done) @@ -5429,6 +5401,34 @@ DEFUN ("igc--remove-extra-dependency", Figc__remove_extra_dependency, return Qt; } +DEFUN ("igc--arena-step", Figc__arena_step, Sigc__arena_step, 2, 2, 0, + doc: /* Do some GC work. + +INTERVAL is the time, in seconds, that MPS is permitted to take. + +MULTIPLIER is the number of further similar calls that the client +program expects to make during this idle period. + +Return t if there was work to do, nil otherwise. */) + (Lisp_Object interval, Lisp_Object multiplier) +{ + /* mps_arena_step does not guarantee to return swiftly. And it seems + that it sometimes does an opportunistic full collection alleging + the client predicted lots of idle time. But it doesn't tell how + it comes to that conclusion. This is caused by bug#79346 in MPS. */ + + /* 1.0 is the lowest possible value for the multiplier argument to + mps_arena_step (bug#76505). */ + + double secs = extract_float (interval); + if (secs < 0.0) + xsignal1 (Qrange_error, interval); + CHECK_FIXNAT (multiplier); + EMACS_INT n = XFIXNAT (multiplier); + bool work_to_do = mps_arena_step (global_igc->arena, secs, n); + return work_to_do ? Qt : Qnil; +} + /*********************************************************************** Init ***********************************************************************/ @@ -5452,18 +5452,11 @@ syms_of_igc (void) defsubr (&Sigc__set_commit_limit); defsubr (&Sigc__add_extra_dependency); defsubr (&Sigc__remove_extra_dependency); + defsubr (&Sigc__arena_step); DEFSYM (Qambig, "ambig"); DEFSYM (Qexact, "exact"); Fprovide (intern_c_string ("mps"), Qnil); - DEFVAR_LISP ("igc-step-interval", Vigc_step_interval, - doc: /* How much time MPS is allowed to spend in GC when Emacs is idle. -The value is in seconds, and should be a non-negative integer or float. -The default value is 0 which means not to do anything when idle. -Negative values and values that are not numbers are handled as if they -were the default value. */); - Vigc_step_interval = make_fixnum (0); - DEFVAR_BOOL ("igc--balance-intervals", igc__balance_intervals, doc: /* Whether to balance buffer intervals when idle. */); igc__balance_intervals = false; -- 2.47.2 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 04 16:13:16 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2025 20:13:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49413 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuGKZ-0002Qs-Bf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 16:13:16 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x629.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::629]:42098) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuGKO-0002Q0-2r for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 16:13:11 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x629.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b00a9989633so256647166b.0 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 13:13:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757016777; x=1757621577; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=1Xxbtwghn1ONB1k5hV5+2t4knlO/u7HvZia5k58+FeY=; b=kdLjJ+Si+y5PaWbiI0/G0el/grUWmMAbL4yOiLr6GdjpIQYem1KUevGy/NyGKj62tc LFAUw5K7FbLVzK3+wcWOsPUtBYyjBodF4av6ickIQnYcJgc7njRzjZJBOZx39bwryZJ0 YULEnEWSrT+Gnx/2OfKnRyEzJhJZTlTmcCjsOr5AHacC3uRIBa2vEA2H0X6Azto7ZFVh 5WXr6boIzZ60Anuf1fh/JNNl4Dj2cJzxfFwZ8PI8Yv1cvQ1Id+fiHhCKVhXx773opJX3 196HNiAk9cZ1H95ePvOSl3PTM0FY6/ZBxB9J/4+t1oAJW0HQk9ZcJHccTEOaBzaTwVRM HEUA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757016777; x=1757621577; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=1Xxbtwghn1ONB1k5hV5+2t4knlO/u7HvZia5k58+FeY=; b=mAynv6MwrOhborf3ycrLr4irtYVLQD51sVliGN/r8q4MrKH9g+ODS68xMVYeGG0FjB GsUgcR2YURBrqIfIMCAdxKk4zy6Fd9DLnTo2MqVejD4AGJOOLrO9h6nr+QdAUL2YNOjX Z3EwBpk+f5Wv0APLbmLMdOL5KoewMCV6U8nVdY5Y+W0HehabNXdccxoKZQBZz6QD3Eef vkYHjCh/oZ0EJ5bqfi6OvTcOc+ndN2IkiFTrTQ7/xolujH91KxebsDkVngCGrJTSOVdh EpDuXps54rJuKDh670MGv/AObDewmQbVg0gjdOIonpY72oIwnheqCfL7sPxa7Ry+BvTE iWgg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCX9YnyXsuiG8eCekCb7NBmSyDpMPbXf9D/ZAavpS67kKtXoQStnkoYZePutXIRbWocjzKILGQ==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxyBrBNYVFHjoLuXvTexSpJaDZMLmNd9ghpAfkNJEOq1JVrMpN9 KnptCEFLhovFXtcsyxap3us8TVPR5YSWFEn5gwwpPn46bvPNRT8k2FIC/p9aLw== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvyUNFtzVtyszBH2FnDpTCHetLLEM10eKri/6LDRLoyiIM9vLkMbnIn6RXwU3P W9iTDBPxOitYNBJh1PqVJnNKxZFBqzkeUOxyBzM+RAvkH/L6rSy61AnYY2YSrf172UmVoybl6g+ UWJx4eZWZVuECioS+BprQh8wWhe6GUeGUe9df2f2kH4GkPy4+u6ryqlgpBqUiVOtFBioja1iZf0 8F72BGp/ic+IdnK4JsrzJMQI5gmxdEqjgeEHJG5cDs2qMsTr5ClIk9n+91cL2j9dhM7+HthEqDI 3DGeTX0kWA78Vq6VifRGNnYsMctSgcsTdPf4pBaNKJLiFlrN/VBqOyoFjbO8RPuNq6UL2o39UTS pvqgfnahrjQcZkRfyTA6rpAe18j46d8k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF8uTkwWxWyev+vW1uP2d675v8TZ1oP3gzxIMVuEPjeHY+t3RAvv71M0CaeuOzhm5ev/2ciLw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:d8f:b0:b04:2dd0:98 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04930c451bmr92810166b.12.1757016776933; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 13:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b046b783722sm454954066b.97.2025.09.04.13.12.56 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 04 Sep 2025 13:12:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2025 22:12:55 +0200 Message-ID: <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 04 2025, Gerd M=C3=B6llmann wrote: [...] > Anyway, the number and size of generations is such a thing. I've been > playing with that on and off and I think I found a setting that works > noticeably smoother than the default. It seems to me that the arena pause_time parameter must be tuned together with the size(s) of the generation(s). Smaller generations require shorter pause_times. I gravitate towards 10MB for the first generation and 10 milliseconds pause time. My feeling is that something in the order of 10MB should work better than 100MB. Of course, this requires measurements to be sure. > I've made me something that makes it easier to play with: I've been using this: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Add-igc_params.patch >From 1951f4c7340e4b8ef348f6ffbccc4a1070a90a5d Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Helmut Eller Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2025 18:39:13 +0100 Subject: [PATCH] Add igc_params --- src/emacs.c | 109 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++- src/igc.c | 28 ++++++++++---- src/igc.h | 28 +++++++++++++- 3 files changed, 155 insertions(+), 10 deletions(-) diff --git a/src/emacs.c b/src/emacs.c index 4a46f92f8f8..17e135a2bfa 100644 --- a/src/emacs.c +++ b/src/emacs.c @@ -284,6 +284,11 @@ #define MAIN_PROGRAM --fingerprint output fingerprint and exit\n\ ", #endif +#if HAVE_MPS + "\ +--igc-param PARAM=VALUE set IGC paramater PARAM to VALUE\n\ +" +#endif #if SECCOMP_USABLE "\ --seccomp=FILE read Seccomp BPF filter from FILE\n\ @@ -723,6 +728,95 @@ argmatch (char **argv, int argc, const char *sstr, const char *lstr, } } +#ifdef HAVE_MPS +static void +parse_igc_gen_params (const char *string, struct igc_params *params) +{ + size_t count = 0; + struct igc_gen_param *array = NULL; + for (const char *s = string;;) + { + int n = 0; + size_t capacity, mortality; + if ((sscanf (s, "%zuk%zu%%%n", &capacity, &mortality, &n) == 2) + && mortality <= 100) + { + struct igc_gen_param p = { .capacity = capacity, + .mortality = (double)mortality / 100.0 }; + count++; + array = xrealloc (array, sizeof (array[0]) * count); + array[count - 1] = p; + if (s[n] == ',') + { + s = &s[n + 1]; + continue; + } + else if (s[n] == '\0') + { + params->gen_params.dflt = false; + params->gen_params.gen_count = count; + params->gen_params.gen_params = array; + return; + } + else + break; + } + else + break; + } + fprintf (stderr, "Invalid value gen_params: %s\n", string); + exit (1); +} + +static void +parse_igc_param (const char *val, struct igc_params *params) +{ + int n = 0; + if ((sscanf (val, "pause_time=%lf%n", ¶ms->pause_time.seconds, &n) == 1) + && val[n] == '\0' && params->pause_time.seconds >= 0) + { + params->pause_time.dflt = false; + return; + } + + const char *key = "gen_params="; + if (strncmp (val, key, strlen (key)) == 0) + return parse_igc_gen_params (val + strlen (key), params); + + if ((sscanf (val, "commit_limit=%zu%n", ¶ms->commit_limit.bytes, &n) + == 1) + && val[n] == '\0') + { + params->commit_limit.dflt = false; + return; + } + + fprintf (stderr, "Invalid igc_param: %s\n", val); + exit (1); +} + +static struct igc_params +parse_igc_params (int argc, char **argv) +{ + struct igc_params params = { + .pause_time = { .dflt = true }, + .gen_params = { .dflt = true }, + .commit_limit = { .dflt = true }, + }; + for (int skip = 0; skip != argc;) + { + char *val = NULL; + if (argmatch (argv, argc, "-igc-param", "--igc-param", 11, &val, &skip)) + parse_igc_param (val, ¶ms); + else if (argmatch (argv, argc, "--", NULL, 0, NULL, &skip)) + break; + else + skip++; + } + return params; +} +#endif + #if !defined HAVE_ANDROID || defined ANDROID_STUBIFY /* Find a name (absolute or relative) of the Emacs executable whose @@ -1368,7 +1462,8 @@ android_emacs_init (int argc, char **argv, char *dump_file) init_signals (); #ifdef HAVE_MPS - init_igc (); + const struct igc_params params = parse_igc_params (argc, argv); + init_igc (¶ms); #endif /* This is needed early because load_pdump can call 'float-time' (via @@ -1992,6 +2087,15 @@ android_emacs_init (int argc, char **argv, char *dump_file) init_module_assertions (module_assertions); #endif +#ifdef HAVE_MPS + { + char *arg; + while (argmatch (argv, argc, "-igc-param", "--igc-param", 11, + &arg, &skip_args)) + ; + } +#endif + #ifdef HAVE_NS if (!noninteractive) { @@ -2615,6 +2719,9 @@ android_emacs_init (int argc, char **argv, char *dump_file) { "-no-build-details", "--no-build-details", 63, 0 }, #ifdef HAVE_MODULES { "-module-assertions", "--module-assertions", 62, 0 }, +#endif +#ifdef HAVE_MPS + {"-igc-param", "--igc-param", 61, 1 }, #endif /* -d must come last before the options handled in startup.el. */ { "-d", "--display", 60, 1 }, diff --git a/src/igc.c b/src/igc.c index af73406cecc..94b9a5ee530 100644 --- a/src/igc.c +++ b/src/igc.c @@ -4643,19 +4643,32 @@ DEFUN ("igc--set-commit-limit", Figc__set_commit_limit, return Qnil; } +static_assert (sizeof (struct igc_gen_param) == sizeof (mps_gen_param_s)); + static void -make_arena (struct igc *gc) +make_arena (struct igc *gc, const struct igc_params *params) { mps_res_t res; MPS_ARGS_BEGIN (args) { + if (!params->pause_time.dflt) + MPS_ARGS_ADD (args, MPS_KEY_PAUSE_TIME, params->pause_time.seconds); + if (!params->commit_limit.dflt) + MPS_ARGS_ADD (args, MPS_KEY_COMMIT_LIMIT, params->commit_limit.bytes); res = mps_arena_create_k (&gc->arena, mps_arena_class_vm (), args); } MPS_ARGS_END (args); IGC_CHECK_RES (res); - mps_gen_param_s gens[] = { { 128000, 0.8 }, { 5 * 128000, 0.4 } }; - res = mps_chain_create (&gc->chain, gc->arena, ARRAYELTS (gens), gens); + mps_gen_param_s dflt_gens[] = { { 128000, 0.8 }, { 5 * 128000, 0.4 } }; + mps_gen_param_s *gens = dflt_gens; + size_t ngens = ARRAYELTS (dflt_gens); + if (!params->gen_params.dflt) + { + ngens = params->gen_params.gen_count; + gens = (mps_gen_param_s *)params->gen_params.gen_params; + } + res = mps_chain_create (&gc->chain, gc->arena, ngens, gens); IGC_CHECK_RES (res); } @@ -4729,10 +4742,10 @@ make_pool_amcz (struct igc *gc, mps_fmt_t fmt) } static struct igc * -make_igc (void) +make_igc (const struct igc_params *params) { struct igc *gc = xzalloc (sizeof *gc); - make_arena (gc); + make_arena (gc, params); /* We cannot let the GC run until at least all staticpros haven been processed. Otherwise we might allocate objects that are not @@ -5159,11 +5172,11 @@ DEFUN ("igc--remove-extra-dependency", Figc__remove_extra_dependency, ***********************************************************************/ void -init_igc (void) +init_igc (const struct igc_params *params) { /* Returns previous handler. */ (void) mps_lib_assert_fail_install (igc_assert_fail); - global_igc = make_igc (); + global_igc = make_igc (params); add_main_thread (); set_state (IGC_STATE_USABLE_PARKED); } @@ -5174,7 +5187,6 @@ syms_of_igc (void) defsubr (&Sigc_info); defsubr (&Sigc__roots); defsubr (&Sigc__collect); - defsubr (&Sigc__set_commit_limit); defsubr (&Sigc__add_extra_dependency); defsubr (&Sigc__remove_extra_dependency); DEFSYM (Qambig, "ambig"); diff --git a/src/igc.h b/src/igc.h index d4be8e4c03d..89e006948c8 100644 --- a/src/igc.h +++ b/src/igc.h @@ -60,8 +60,34 @@ #define EMACS_IGC_H #ifdef HAVE_MPS +struct igc_gen_param +{ + size_t capacity; /* in kilobytes */ + double mortality; /* initial estimate; valid values in [0..1] */ +}; + +struct igc_params +{ + struct + { + bool dflt; + double seconds; /* in seconds; valid values in [0..INF] */ + } pause_time; + struct + { + bool dflt; + size_t gen_count; + struct igc_gen_param *gen_params; + } gen_params; + struct + { + bool dflt; + size_t bytes; + } commit_limit; +}; + void igc_break (void); -void init_igc (void); +void init_igc (const struct igc_params *); void syms_of_igc (void); void *igc_thread_add (struct thread_state *ts); void igc_thread_remove (void **info); -- 2.47.2 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 04 23:28:40 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2025 03:28:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50248 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuN7v-00013Q-Oa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 23:28:40 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x533.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::533]:44338) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuN7s-00013B-KU for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 23:28:37 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x533.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61cf0901a72so2972445a12.1 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 20:28:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757042910; x=1757647710; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=lh1pgsfErkkKWKudVCGazTFELy28xeUC2Ea17RkdrHc=; b=PWx6Eg4JtWBTuu24I+UiuG/H5/bmmfUa2gMxK0otWEcUZaODp58OIFW0b+ZL5OFZA6 IovwZw0QhwIaVyHqPKw8y37yzXCTXue4oBECC3knn9tvazmfQx0JJV08XvVaNB2tyY5J U9rxRdrgxAftNVFCDvbCyFSSmMYTE6dAfWU8SGNie0Pc7rQYDVlsm4hQKJg7VoxTO+L/ kGzpyU13HYRXlKtvIB+V3OiscNxlnG1cMxIG1P9L2XWIub6y8EI/bMdCeXMef2T1dabo rJ7PvPhOI39B9dusi6Ifra/OImyIWR5ufxxyEa7rMUEkBxQ2NOz3GqvOdPmZAOSAc5Mn iRkw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757042910; x=1757647710; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=lh1pgsfErkkKWKudVCGazTFELy28xeUC2Ea17RkdrHc=; b=R+E9zPb2u9SLHJJMbo2ubv0RRY9xtvbfv0EggPx8qeU4a/+o2LCx1O9VZ2XTrT+utM nvBHYAGl/9O532mnb1cLxjyNPi+mTjDQUHvnFMbZAzXyrVmAqsDFrQ9mxDY8c40FHbB2 XJU/y2utLXmMpV5IThLjvSU6dGSbHSWauFk7VdTFfHzkljAfGmyHSROAfEPyYXV5ZcP0 myuLuVyZADzjT1OymBYZAbAzAz51LZP8DKBj4hc66m0eX1BxKh6GfyNonqQpDaJaCLJO vQ85nCZQCwdzqX3S2tLQs0p7YnTBXMbZwTT20T+2BEsjGQ5mqLzFLV2ADpbrCWMP33NX aW7A== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXA77SKQMMiz6USN2agz6zIrVujXOKjAlVHOr8wTkCLGR4pDGBH+bV1hUcxQ/qUpNWcMg3Uuw==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwlTnU7h+fOwrT3s/H+vxU2bHrl/xDsYs1moIKhDovZHSQXlApO Dbbx96vNUpS9l2JxKOWowC8oqvVRRAXe9H6KRycvY7CDKbAbJ/8FHzCYbZKo/w== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct34qkNQS5N8/Mj/WIhwfGD1BFwvabdoWdev1WfQJmJeXjFipwDKiC6AfbytJg TDFjKHvi7L1u4qviAaxgYmyJhOLClb5a6/8zZVFX9OaQCV8c/XQy4kK3xDrX636UkAj1py93cJ/ jIosk3Ln2/dqKqohrv7bBOc+DO/4D1lrj/GtN0rcmhBNjcd8U9rS00+0knVNgJuyYW029FmVrFZ yDuC8c3UExOI1HBfZTz3+RZVDEJdm4gv5XwIrnwpSrkA/0oP62Eno6PkAr8xjWQ8ZEgtPlKkCle KmOpPPVbcJ2GYQhTiIkO+zkM9xBU2yIe5/Ui0NLSxlGqRz3MIDAt7Vp3PjVCTTdWFniXU0vyAMX R2oGS0auF/cjVl3T/IdjarLorsVovhbFkgKxKubHCDSYJC7I+l5w1gldO5QldmJTkNBI7RNRFXg 17H3BR+jEaoxXbvK7Quf24m+Wujg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGdBjMt17fDPYI63JLLf87VzQ0V8SSBKCfpSclI0JZJwcT8EpxBpnWU/sZAa8jwp8iPTHlHAw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:274d:b0:61e:9770:fd48 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61e9770fe32mr15306862a12.37.1757042909799; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 20:28:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro2 (p200300e0b715260019eef247645dc4a6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b715:2600:19ee:f247:645d:c4a6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61cfc214bb7sm14907605a12.13.2025.09.04.20.28.28 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 04 Sep 2025 20:28:28 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Helmut Eller Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <87plc6gezg.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87plc6gezg.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 05:28:28 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Helmut Eller writes: > On Thu, Sep 04 2025, Gerd M=C3=B6llmann wrote: > >> Helmut Eller writes: > [...] >>> What would you think of making mps_arena_step and perhaps buffer_step >>> available from Lisp so that those things can be called from Lisp-level >>> idle timers? >> >> Sounds like a good idea. > > Below is a patch that does this. Thanks. I have that in my Emacs now. > The idle timer waits 2 seconds, before it calls mps_arena_step. As > usual, "idle time" is the time since the last command completed, i.e. 2 > seconds must pass after a command before the idle timer fires. (Other > timers or process filters don't reset "idle time"; only new commands > do.) I think that should avoid the problem that I've seen where > opportunistic GC was started while I was in the middle of typing > something. Okay. > The code uses a constant to predict the idle time; maybe one could to > something a bit more clever; not sure if that would be worth the > trouble. I'm already playing a bit with this (setq igc--step-interval 0.02 igc--idle-delay 1.0) The step interval is what I've been using before, together with the generations I mentioned. Don't know about the delay. > Regarding bug#76505 (or https://github.com/Ravenbrook/mps/issues/305), > I now think that it's safe to call mps_arena_step with multiplier=3D0: > The expression (availableEnd - now) never overflows because the > invariant now <=3D intervalEnd <=3D availableEnd holds. Hadn't noticed that one, and it's a bit tldr. Maybe it's worth adding something to the MPS issue? Or maybe not, don't know. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 04 23:46:24 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2025 03:46:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50265 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuNP6-0001wj-19 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 23:46:24 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x52d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52d]:59698) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuNP2-0001wL-1T for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 23:46:21 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-6188b793d21so2747357a12.3 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 20:46:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757043971; x=1757648771; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=7jJZXyeb+fQguIa8Euf2V2D35KfNKa3yblsMKvu2aEE=; b=b7f0SAB3MwuUf+Si2/bMNXdBE/dUUaHioiwv4orwtFgUYf7LJwpNFL4/bhLRFoNgh0 suLYbHlvxAaMqq+0SiRGT+C3UXVYy4YQNbBYzqbGSXlPCVX9wRbb2V7Rct03xjPA9pLf 8+JYeGQ1xTvvW7HCZbV2eRoKfvxH0DvncRL0VA+/O3uYeL2dmYUkkgHhO6/ea/4+/ayE Bl01XKhIvPxSe/T74m9HqGOfKyfsqUkfGutO4m2VGlkCc2EC6ulptO7uy7FFUzyAf7iD HgeT7XLh3m6uVf1O5SjsVMHczHuylUtPogOIn0ybvQIh+KbTzsk7oQ4RXqvsw8O+s4nX 7QCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757043971; x=1757648771; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=7jJZXyeb+fQguIa8Euf2V2D35KfNKa3yblsMKvu2aEE=; b=H5mnk9APfhU0+TebIEgawZPQs1XeqRdMhVZFBZH7mE9LyDPwKngwb/Ob+n7cYELYhd zw+/qkOSbwvNHLPcsA4oG1vuUbtm3uj5yMfI/i7UP3pxY276qBeSXtMnyp8Lq6FZdWho 1+qlBgmQQvQsxDn3FqS8qWcsXMYay9eXsJC0fJFlRrRb4OlhV46PTvA7fdRME2Kkrxqx f2tZ5583NQmNZopkkwHVN7zLfpJWaseCR74uebeL+lcL91OkRYOXOY7vuHCN9j65oHkU i66s42K25eNgj0O8ZSYiuQHig4ONEPefUriVGabTS/WNoCbForKhT88q+eCiasE0o+xU oluw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVhHB16AJ43SvU9Mg95a4IQ/aIEcYWhqtV7os+unJoob3XRrB4Blmar1GFpAUFoP67t73PKnQ==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyJpZwFnKv5m5S6iuki6oZ6XThwXtGZtJq0Nx1OezxdeGks5X8f Pi2baSgIFNmSstgqEKMIH8ALphTbRQKO5TEYOPNdvDKKfxvbUPISvfmy3H466Q== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctUwScu3Rx2m/SM0XY5LPPohmjy/X2ucctycryW1Tv4Ov3pu4yQsdZ8gP0fOEt 8xwtL3mL1uKwQReuDxsAVJZi16RyGlPFuK8tfQdtEvIde6W/3o5s/wcns3qdkBpxe38dykF55Gi jSuzTSw2MSdqcGCckxkU/IRz8Po6ww0GkmxzvRjDqKK6BX4CJFuIZOO8vqTbcP/TuDXmyfNVJSH xX2PLxp55AFScefBXSxTCctui9iJlJ709H4IH465lsN4uhC0PBY7m3zuFgFJD2gtc3nLHzWQgTu cJ2ruGTVOXNgOHe+dIQCtfGOzIQEwiyqFP2ccI0q/gxn7VkGwetLvMywP2PyU9PUtGYro6MXVws XrXvpt0TkZz4BCijwOYsIAEZi4ikcky/WxGYS6nukFwnRRRxkcy73FMheN8+2Z5sQ0bftTXnrCL jridC5TWQAIPeEMZWk97PN6DgcH3AC/mj6D47p X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHl2DfHgL4YY1W2GoXcvmgNn8IuZr7DTyGCmHipH8amzf0oo5Nhz48N1MPTSl5ltZHzied1fA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:6e87:b0:b04:a1a4:4bec with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04a1a4676bmr1906866b.58.1757043971023; Thu, 04 Sep 2025 20:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro2 (p200300e0b715260019eef247645dc4a6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b715:2600:19ee:f247:645d:c4a6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b046d420e02sm509583666b.39.2025.09.04.20.46.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 04 Sep 2025 20:46:10 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Helmut Eller Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 05:46:09 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Helmut Eller writes: > On Thu, Sep 04 2025, Gerd M=C3=B6llmann wrote: > > [...] >> Anyway, the number and size of generations is such a thing. I've been >> playing with that on and off and I think I found a setting that works >> noticeably smoother than the default. > > It seems to me that the arena pause_time parameter must be tuned > together with the size(s) of the generation(s).=20=20 That's true. I forgot to mention the 0.02s I am using. > Smaller generations require shorter pause_times. I gravitate towards > 10MB for the first generation and 10 milliseconds pause time. My > feeling is that something in the order of 10MB should work better than > 100MB. Of course, this requires measurements to be sure. :-) > >> I've made me something that makes it easier to play with: > > I've been using this: Thanks. I'll try to get that into my Emacs a bit later because I have some changes here that lead to conflicts. Concerning feature/igc, I've come to the conclusion that it's probably best for my peace when I ignore its existence and don't push anything there anymore, either your changes or mine. I could make a new branch though if you like. Just tell. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 05 02:34:31 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2025 06:34:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50662 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuQ1n-0002NV-6C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 02:34:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56712) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuQ1j-0002ND-S9 for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 02:34:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uuQ1d-00069M-JK; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 02:34:22 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=r+jMhuUslvrmZgAdO7sD2vSneRGjCW4+3QbPULqomNE=; b=iVZbHa9ISCliNsQ0VmET HazWyeQOMQfafbFf/oH3DFS1iR01+RSL0ERc100csMKfSfhOAnrEEK1MTB8wCHGd89nDWf6TrAkft RlCLfTuEP/+nj5PO1C882PULSo+i37h1mps3QQcTYgiSm74hffWhORYjhqRf3ej5AfuQJlePGX0LP Prq9yE3alXZK/CWCtoZ8hxUd4C2preCZf3xtefIf8X08I/5h9oDE8++OMV7pJY3PfFvJa8rGoEGqO VcsK4mx/kcELYyfpnJOFl2IRTv/xX+yqEWfEfVRh5LNZNQDNuidMoi/xb+F/maClT04fcReAVyDO7 hTJxLL+1rI0xkw==; Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 09:34:18 +0300 Message-Id: <86tt1hif11.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <87plc6gezg.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Thu, 04 Sep 2025 22:05:55 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87plc6gezg.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2025 22:05:55 +0200 > > On Thu, Sep 04 2025, Gerd Möllmann wrote: > > > Helmut Eller writes: > [...] > >> What would you think of making mps_arena_step and perhaps buffer_step > >> available from Lisp so that those things can be called from Lisp-level > >> idle timers? > > > > Sounds like a good idea. > > Below is a patch that does this. > > The idle timer waits 2 seconds, before it calls mps_arena_step. As > usual, "idle time" is the time since the last command completed, i.e. 2 > seconds must pass after a command before the idle timer fires. (Other > timers or process filters don't reset "idle time"; only new commands > do.) I think that should avoid the problem that I've seen where > opportunistic GC was started while I was in the middle of typing > something. > > The code uses a constant to predict the idle time; maybe one could to > something a bit more clever; not sure if that would be worth the > trouble. AFAIU, this makes GC-on-idle run off an idle timer, instead of using internal implementation in C, is that right? If so, I'm not very happy doing this, as the default mechanism. Timers are hard to reason about, when other timers, let alone other Lisp threads, are present, and the result might be more complex system, which is harder to understand and maintain. It is okay to allow this to run off an idle timer, as an opt-in feature. But let's leave the internal implementation as the default, at least for now. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 05 02:36:04 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2025 06:36:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50671 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuQ3H-0002Vz-S3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 02:36:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39178) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuQ3F-0002VV-H8 for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 02:36:02 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uuQ3A-0006bq-7w; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 02:35:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=qpYqw57NJMF63hCyF3Bf7aZQuFkHfCsD4IGZn7bJxhs=; b=V+eIXjD1NJh0RhhyWlQx flmQhAlgUmF5FC0IH3IzC025iVEx6Ralu90HBrXkALCLOqYy0QBEqM1r34gXIbjTgEOnJ+ylCMeyX Ew0/BIRd0LzS09CfJnNchvEmKAxigpHh5tW9D40pTPHdlxFNlqhxo9VymKMYbDObE7uiqGsp7REZr 7bBtGs0YP+Qv0y9+1DQwZFaVSvOUOwmm/LBUm/MenXld0ZcWO4iItMxHDBvUzFgbV3z7oUWFNdBXo QuS7QmJf4q21LCM4pacgGrX+QnvQDlQiNFCDzvAywf1WoZxYCnl/PlhDSiZBCEi/w57gE27cij4d5 sjQ2gAqGGhhDTw==; Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 09:35:53 +0300 Message-Id: <86seh1ieye.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Thu, 04 Sep 2025 22:12:55 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2025 22:12:55 +0200 > > On Thu, Sep 04 2025, Gerd Möllmann wrote: > > [...] > > Anyway, the number and size of generations is such a thing. I've been > > playing with that on and off and I think I found a setting that works > > noticeably smoother than the default. > > It seems to me that the arena pause_time parameter must be tuned > together with the size(s) of the generation(s). Smaller generations > require shorter pause_times. I gravitate towards 10MB for the first > generation and 10 milliseconds pause time. My feeling is that something > in the order of 10MB should work better than 100MB. Of course, this > requires measurements to be sure. Not sure if I make sense, but 10 ms of pause for GC sounds an awful lot to me. Would 1 ms or 2 ms be reasonable? They should be imperceptible. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 05 12:50:57 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2025 16:50:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56526 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuZeL-00021q-9b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 12:50:57 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x52a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52a]:51569) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuZeF-00021U-K7 for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 12:50:53 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61ce4c32a36so4533280a12.3 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 09:50:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757091045; x=1757695845; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=3McGGOzNj6vQGlJYwxn/dFANlcWX3rIgwviNBlItERM=; b=df/2nYgMB+o2FLP9xlluEAVfyncjAZnLoBYqOo3CJEMHOTMYKtxqJNhiYqP5ajKF9l 6NTQ78DoNG+fXUU0RQWn/L55hLTVDBJ4QE4V5mHEnVw0o5KIOxiLYr79UlBsQb5A0tQY ZDgkTIXf/y2UlzfNOTGmX4/FjPcfRuRQBgKh/TvwdjHh5i3zTxzUzm+cuKGqQrCY1YDm 7eUinYyFET52h3p9m6nLu8tm5Kc3bphNmg1ayZxOuyLcmjKHB9jCbRu33C8FnM4le5vA HDU8HqEkcvqbNlAom45OZkb1/dW2qYeyEks5j9jJt3ZGUdAWjgsfay6L+217MAW2o2vk VGMw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757091045; x=1757695845; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=3McGGOzNj6vQGlJYwxn/dFANlcWX3rIgwviNBlItERM=; b=P1gwtqyZyNH7s6LraAmIxDOx/h0+naJjR3Oc4EGTRh2j+1DnVj/U0cpn+e5752IBB3 kExx5Kz1MGXY/fIgM+2HPJA5Nsv8eX2Ksx4TwqK2Vl5FDqiGXNwNk3RSr4fz2uGeZBc/ uNA3Jwx4JQylOWmA0i9TG5pG8JgE19nC2OWrV0nwk50zT5MlwYxn+COYWjlb2qkLTj3k vBzPmJVoTkECxFVEh1cdAJ73PjIHR+QOCzsmyCuDmweqYnHy7ahF4CHS4KlNhfX77A6M ezZxxQVEiPXCBkoFdRfEXxNf5b+vbOeb/IIVL0sU3icZ/6KjJu+gXlYF2WwvsyCfIPp8 B2RQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWxK3fG4OCWhp5KH0DZpyfF3HRx/hIhicuwSLfGeWo7/ZERBO2rUxxmbyBW5ItgVUwa4/YVPA==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzNrT7CfLy284EG3RPSavGqUoV5gxXjtr2mS09dQ+C863HXYPI/ NJbdTTx9WPpb4BD7+iMt44MNbFiR+sMBp2APeNHiWgHns2lmiN15ILiQaYf8yQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncslenfKLn26Q+uKvaqSWOh6xyYAYN6V1IJVBsP93oAqeZ7+3N1gcU/UDXBX448 VnXPkWPLMIExmd+pqkiAlMLiE3RQIQoUO3OGF0uKlzsOOh5Gcpl3RMrK9L2wPWSS3kD33w7Cu2R pfr6joPMsGE8rWUF11+laEiMMOWZp6s+Vp+5dkhmIQpkFUpONlSei0nU7p8mZ63FgsZMi1R4f7I qyncPrgHKKLASPNB9HSbd2nLEhnRWHjaqBCiVKCXj24fowIBUG4njjiEuCrSHkUndBxI7u3Ei30 5Z+KzmLhklRtIJExVWOvGOmmjfuwBor4bIxvy+iWrtPMSXUCogq2YRij3MFpyZ+r6MR3XcbvybP bZFS3R01XJOhZxz1CxXEUe/aXqGXqyK4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFizAgUQzKjXShYwN0AwzVSAUeeGPx083bZVKEYuRIkLq6EhoODHonqq1H2ld3fkUNmWiW/wg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:354c:b0:61c:6ca1:1a89 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61d26861ae8mr3437231a12.5.1757091044481; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 09:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61cfc52ae40sm16587808a12.44.2025.09.05.09.50.43 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 05 Sep 2025 09:50:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 18:50:43 +0200 Message-ID: <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> I've been using this: > > Thanks. I'll try to get that into my Emacs a bit later because I have > some changes here that lead to conflicts. Using environment variables is probably better anyway. Eli doesn't want to add command line args for the sake of MPS and with environment variables its easier to keep this inside igc.c. > Concerning feature/igc, I've come to the conclusion that it's probably > best for my peace when I ignore its existence and don't push anything > there anymore, either your changes or mine. I suppose it would also be best for my peace :-) ... > I could make a new branch though if you like. Just tell. ... but I don't quite see how we should make progress without some shared branch. Helmut From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 05 12:51:29 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2025 16:51:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56530 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuZer-000247-0d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 12:51:29 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x52d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52d]:49560) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuZem-00022u-Pd for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 12:51:25 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61a8c134533so4418004a12.3 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 09:51:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757091078; x=1757695878; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=9Ngn5cCFaS7X5J31hIWoi0fXDdzUO+1Muc7gdMzpxRs=; b=XXygPzNFBdsvgZyJ6vlFpk2Ebgy8BOh4Oud2l1iG/3WFgZMcAb0kffbMw7+Wjv/nEp seW5fTwvdfKIk8okE5okvXBBBHMNs4XF807Lnbx4MQeaBVW5pKh4JWpRMj9iAGZCInkM 5pr+1vxqu+ptrLpksgse9R61jTZ16SZHRXddjLf8Dw8kLZzGVdWmDPSJHo2p3bOIVFxw leInyJZPh4tQb74T5U5kcl6QO45wXYk1Tllc+GF4RbpatJZ/sBWz/4kgM3H1p0ffTxIn s4SDrPwDpMevIdmNp0iR3AeRxDR0Rf3pTuLgSGUJB0Ybmh0MRIaq8zbYQW17uA63CEVf dSzA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757091078; x=1757695878; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=9Ngn5cCFaS7X5J31hIWoi0fXDdzUO+1Muc7gdMzpxRs=; b=dFTtAqDk/5BlFOiBE77iqVefwngVwF65B9METAi1IUhum4b1Lw157BFo1apGofBFvp wMtwWC7f6OO1xGP5klLAhuEi3nUvkUp5eG/7BDwPmQ/dYZWLIgbQ21+WiH9yCZGOazse TFYSJtMv3hNjD9bdbYxppFaL+6bMcd7CyfkMsVCq5VNfQ8+zTY/l9MW3pzgyRJyGhrcZ aBG28EKxaBN+JQvBf/gpoJsFAzH+4hPTl2Gl8UVdonTRd+wHyd31E9QZxUaVLCiZpfeu o/ak9AP05vF5OuWBtS2AAmnQiNUV5UoDtzvaV1PecH5Xn/QU9KdyElRxBuFnu0OPKTuO xG0A== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUxvqttGCoR0LFmcCvrblSt7JjlXFNwLpu4AQrm5hXxH1NqGxj7D4MV0LlNXAtAnEw7v+LkkQ==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxNvmZZbSNly4SycL867bZbeRqkItnslcX5Au949M2rQzRIqGFo YU2KqbT4UqlodQpLgO+uTKb10fSRpqLrlnolxW6tXExU89bpgI9Fzy/ropmUPw== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsHFZIhA05796xRQroKvU6O/AfcUGOjBL4p26dSodF4DlUF4V3owHTgfVK/EDS VxG8ToGKcKhHlxjXs488R5KSasxAKjyaXiz+b9fT1usfElU3dgRzUvfL2CtgxMI8RXj5CJEaHKp DfeE/4MucLASIDKCYzd1IVG6JTiBJnxL87WvInOwpWb1GE2VKq//LU2/l078nAhhvyngcLxTkiA BVZ7rviQSYmMikTldGtbTN5yF+3+jxBDEewNDXdtztOFT26HqCx6CvaQXiWlW+dSk+KXTT5h6TT 6YsAWHKdBwgTxuc7cTkMBu3/zQXkLqbg/rqdt6c1LkbtWMZLbGGP8aHhyU7eTzzuFOMK/Vkk+PK 7XAt4bcB6bNv+l48oe3i9 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEuqQKn1gEw3clX/RgBKNUJu6cuJc5DzekKkJrQ/ZVt96HuPEAcgdIQgnB8lstgGhHz9b6Vjg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:440b:b0:61e:cfd8:25aa with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61ecfd828famr12244627a12.24.1757091077975; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 09:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61edc393dc1sm6331783a12.0.2025.09.05.09.51.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 05 Sep 2025 09:51:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87plc6gezg.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 18:51:16 +0200 Message-ID: <873490hmgr.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Hadn't noticed that one, and it's a bit tldr. Maybe it's worth adding > something to the MPS issue? Done. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 05 12:57:46 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2025 16:57:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56573 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuZkw-0002Vm-2A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 12:57:46 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::531]:43044) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuZkt-0002VL-LB for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 12:57:44 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61d3d622a2bso4532241a12.0 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 09:57:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757091456; x=1757696256; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bwmnKQsiXmi0DE1eoa13gefM8/RiZjeLzuqwvUqNL6A=; b=WWEKFB/LTLkSf1+ypgQEQAdvyvuS/6aC0mT7Ygv1LP+BMf9upmkW2sx4+H7J6lwesq /lijSaQqSTW5Lw45GNrtMyrcacs605Mla0+o7s+5rXIjeZW767Ttbp0EVFtdHRjQb8BF FU99biie9FqLr5qp/p7YcpU7aK4Ve+4j/fKoPOYYi3KURjZHKb7kS8w6zJIf5FwLjWRO NaGKMWf5J1PGG8yUm6VgoyojEXG06U4Pr1p8Ht7eU8Z3LxXZgtFRE4ZCuFHGefEtArw/ yDxzRs7NtpnFkWBfUAUABbl1p4DV5M9uSSg8X1X9oRRnTDOb963sMEMAykr7dcZgHBDw QblQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757091456; x=1757696256; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=bwmnKQsiXmi0DE1eoa13gefM8/RiZjeLzuqwvUqNL6A=; b=UjGQhTpHDa13XJnXeQiWpovPiwlQAcLhOEAtSdutyfsrShKISub7bK+jFj71FKfWeS ZEkoTo/3QhNq/VXhrNa40cHu9B9W3UstqJtXAib15OsYLm7iQLTUtcRz1Q7b95U4qLLh JN4NhfR+ds3yx3bQDUvwgESgh2v0OSVrtzl1tYog2BScpQk2vYPokfRzNojCOFbgR90Z +0I5E9WwGMYkxJwdESF5orTuTtb6p3/NOS+46UHj/+tJGeFARi4SP6Pc6Cm20R90CFXM IcsYY26syEEoFVpVf69A+cbVE3+K73GL5WnSaKCb/uvrd1wPcF+Iy+0YAftvtNIKrZTb cKPA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVfXRVwgLLfSQR3kHoTzxcXiaAGQQ0MhA4r/EC0pvi/v3agGD5fyc85OvClZhEw9KRkJrqN3g==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwWltKwJfP03yQ3rbt1UUMFoFpCGaIQ2K8HboJam91pD8q4oK9y g6OBvOhdQ6mpZmK1uwWw7fgXmJG7WdJTcVDBvmFknwY5PCz7657gWDbd7+w6Bg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuSUqvTsPWes4DGNKaDRca/eg6LXd8vk55QsuHdk0ms2lcZFmgUQK0ytBgUoE4 hmUkI6bop7ePjsTlOSPTm1WyFQlVoFajrAyGYFCK6WvtGc/VP6U8refmwo3q/5VDK36eb2uiTiC HGnZvmtV3pXsgIwsBRD0BWP4RD4OgZta5i7+oMFYUEWDbOR7CXFJX+wVp4Y1K3AUJ6NWVW4imnm EyX90USgnh+TlCt1wpRghJOOMklTxWo8lLvySt99f/nagFGvZemDIVRmINfk2z+lp3u5PW6SffN 94eE/EBGTpxTk5VMaqJgl6TEvqz0fyEl1WuReGlRWM/5hKA/YDJXzTdSQFd7CO708pN1vyt0veD Pdv95ngJ776ERY7ojAieMQ28FinR7BHg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEc68lKTPBwUeIp92O7Tnn/6aumj7VK3pQfVDufl7TjXgpkBIl0LNTWXmf8CEOfVGmCK4QifQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:9809:b0:af9:3f99:1422 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b049307e6c1mr481824966b.5.1757091456442; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 09:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-aff03e9ba10sm1805163366b.52.2025.09.05.09.57.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 05 Sep 2025 09:57:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86tt1hif11.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87plc6gezg.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1hif11.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 18:57:35 +0200 Message-ID: <87v7lwg7ls.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Fri, Sep 05 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: [...] >> Below is a patch that does this. >> >> The idle timer waits 2 seconds, before it calls mps_arena_step. As >> usual, "idle time" is the time since the last command completed, i.e. 2 >> seconds must pass after a command before the idle timer fires. (Other >> timers or process filters don't reset "idle time"; only new commands >> do.) I think that should avoid the problem that I've seen where >> opportunistic GC was started while I was in the middle of typing >> something. >> >> The code uses a constant to predict the idle time; maybe one could to >> something a bit more clever; not sure if that would be worth the >> trouble. > > AFAIU, this makes GC-on-idle run off an idle timer, instead of using > internal implementation in C, is that right? Yes, right. > If so, I'm not very happy doing this, as the default mechanism. > Timers are hard to reason about, when other timers, let alone other > Lisp threads, are present, and the result might be more complex > system, which is harder to understand and maintain. > > It is okay to allow this to run off an idle timer, as an opt-in > feature. But let's leave the internal implementation as the default, > at least for now. The patch was not committed, AFAIK. Helmut From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 05 13:08:25 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2025 17:08:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56621 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuZvE-0003G5-S4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 13:08:25 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x62c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62c]:44158) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuZv7-0003Fc-G0 for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 13:08:22 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b042cc39551so429095366b.0 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 10:08:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757092091; x=1757696891; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=8SLaLaeLuFE3otSK0vKws9HpIX9aQtIfBK+2lC2yLWg=; b=CJ/TEoyphrdymowElBHmf896xgzN2VtDlntkIRWL+myU3JjYvcL0qTKEN79Hy4T8kI 8iwwmYa7mGi/2TUiJaW16W58QE23xuebWzuq0qSqtLCh2k1QtiwDyZiMW0garxJtDK2G 8BrLMZZgWs/62rPpsps+eWmOmNB7YUMoqFObkI4RPIC4v+xEJUYj6uRG1BXStdw/KFz8 DEk2fTL5rGYwv0ROa3+kvwtHWMSrjGFdsnGw12elOHD9ayXaJWLR9SKO/6QZ0hQ26sp3 FiroWMgjAYL8Ed0h+JcuU/wjWElfbHiCBT1Lq4l2DXVoxzFpQN1u3JAxxTz7obz4Zv1i tj/Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757092091; x=1757696891; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=8SLaLaeLuFE3otSK0vKws9HpIX9aQtIfBK+2lC2yLWg=; b=rtsRWuthZEpL69TtWDXcvfpUJKFYx3zj9lPLdDt0Xd2wc5JsYf4gnf72PVNDI9w8tH aUNwyqi9UwoxTc3NTMcmQWa5EAP1/8vECRHGPFiu2rYRztzryNlcTv+fAC+7dZXnF253 vPv34HwkNVxoWxNYLZVQUcs9MTagsfm8eXq3jCU6N6JjHSjXsWF495xINO/EATFHcY2z hR5qW34Gh+5QXIZMBAVIZ8MRmrxW7vDhwSUOOH1nw+d/0k/njtvDRbCw6DPU2xmYjVuI Ed3U+eED/q3eGwPb10ZzYmcWMnr89aOoEeyr/l/y51bCf7qaBA0zad+W1eFy+4Lxothp DSjQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWy1eHUGnoSgD4G+Z1BLSWlm/52zHBKYI7NvqabeywZoQf1Xg0Nfx1BvdSRHyXT2MLtyl1P6g==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyh3T8y2c6+kwh5qfb6jDxXbVQgMi75GPsfQ2ecLoJO7qjTAYAc trk4dYNPsCSrs/91/fBqMKZDFAuJiWti/yi6HJqTMuRt7vX1R/ZXGdPXF+IJLg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctojgbM2o8rdU2yfmaMS3bRvGa7xITCNXBfJBJocycOiEdqZPNf7HlXElRqMK6 cux2jZSN0wvX4mVa2j5R90j2TM1uCMJErfblB6aa0C62crsJeVqVdVF1G54Hqh9pq+P75Ge7YOc gnr0gRsNOB5NJmxX8SzFF2RSXpcW/QhNtJtxNBjICMvRxCkh+W69vLvFtHdShLhJxaklqP6cSLW OCPojZpQQu4DnFKW8nzeTSpVsVWFbWTQBkfSYJJWiAkoSJKD0n9liXSWMTOmfJz0nrm+JxDkGdM GoI5zTH4sunngDaSAadgcXdsOOY9LPiZhLP/FZMC9DIyJbrEQbD82TjKE0erXIY1XVj/5sVpLkP R7mSnBUK0v8AduiBP3BGJTZSUkAH705aKqgP16oU8gQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IELgfOsoLSFFhBOqWYfXQarUTTMU+D2sAlxtiRfvt8xoy74LNcBNUtu3Pv+v8K3uxWk4YP56w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:94cf:b0:b04:4786:5e02 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b044786612bmr1522227666b.45.1757092090413; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 10:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b046d420e02sm644018966b.39.2025.09.05.10.08.09 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 05 Sep 2025 10:08:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86seh1ieye.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <86seh1ieye.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 19:08:09 +0200 Message-ID: <87plc4g746.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Fri, Sep 05 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: [...] >> It seems to me that the arena pause_time parameter must be tuned >> together with the size(s) of the generation(s). Smaller generations >> require shorter pause_times. I gravitate towards 10MB for the first >> generation and 10 milliseconds pause time. My feeling is that something >> in the order of 10MB should work better than 100MB. Of course, this >> requires measurements to be sure. > > Not sure if I make sense, No, you don't :-) > but 10 ms of pause for GC sounds an awful > lot to me. The current value of the parameter is 100ms. > Would 1 ms or 2 ms be reasonable? They should be imperceptible. That probably below MPS's sweet spot. In my limited experiments, 16MB with 10ms had the lowest overhead. Helmut From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 05 14:05:41 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2025 18:05:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57172 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuaoe-0000h7-IK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 14:05:41 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x535.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::535]:60525) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuaoa-0000g3-2W for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 14:05:37 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x535.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61d7b2ec241so2880057a12.0 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 11:05:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757095528; x=1757700328; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wie3T+T4EXdjU3j9NLQpYzPRnTRMJZFizRZx6txS/yY=; b=XrRIzvCKM6moaqECe7q5s3ISMSxPolNLrQfqPCa/Ct7EImXRGB4pMe9TyVSZnRSfWt LI/6yRaCOmHVxusmN/DpgoTPQGh5UZ+XYSUWP7JFcy/W8RzgIVDIJde6YYnc8Ghxy2fS FHZS7O5zN4nsB/3xR+6anq39D3S3De2t5xS/XRcq/65g8ip2ADr7pO9hGGMW3yWrtDLx w6kzqicja1lOM7kQ4iwW4/EGRJ20/RDQ03YlHxt+Gus1s9US0y5tYJ0a/AXQq2akfKWA 30pxNsysFQUz8pmUER20wglfJBy/IR1TCiVNs+0BRwJu6n94HtcW2fhLv7gB7yDV1UVL aUGA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757095528; x=1757700328; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=wie3T+T4EXdjU3j9NLQpYzPRnTRMJZFizRZx6txS/yY=; b=tB9KL+zUKaPKOMnGJ++58OG4LZ1ymonDkQPnidOhDhqgFmzzGmWkuCKby3WShOz5HQ imG55Wxe4bELlX1IlfeliGRMS/JRUne94q4onADVds+lO5/Zna+1fBpy0hrFAqS8dFvo cn11vDnR1BlYsi2KzHb25C4JuTfmUhu0Nih/GjPVFiGqZhdsVSP3He7rFwcfLnCDWGl2 TgyJ3z6tDf7RDTWysF9HWfJrq+84n7sbBmZB1QjcpNBLn65HT68IcWBqSf+9X6qMoxTi J2rC9nw79NXMmfKSMIx2SGY0eISdiCf6ic4PBI4aXpTWNGoDykb/KliO5ADwOi0f0ZxN lXlA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWug5XQIbtUPj9UepSMZLcXFq7v3mFjTYFtIft92oDZ7FWy2ZZhwac0LfJFV7tTLq5ZM+GOFQ==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzBAT/4fUE+Y/yYDeL0y7NsiRHhc1EK1xmLWFRjHPtHTCCG2XO4 tHSnIQYi6D+ZP7u6NzqNOBtNTnb6pVENc5InilnpHLlYC+VrXZgdzn6/0c10UQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuMN4nJzPCi55LUO10JMSRX9du+XuOKqbiCbF2pXsLJPODe5dWeIP/cZTFmAFT RfcTVk0f4fyT9WDPQiMplzJ/SvJciBcS+VDo7f+q7xRkmJyJ9oRz/IiUFOd4TIvhfzRvmreW+S8 nsLroMvnt3M52uSDYlki7givNqCnC3tuTkwi1Q9B8OUneMzUdSqTdvOw0JF83atN2QEtoF6eAQg MxbjtP/5o9SbwOCGtyXXa1Z5Wa7QKqljq2SJqZaJz5ylV9RP0n7pmiO9v/kDx7NrqFuWneMG8QV VqB77ZDW70770NYyEQQV4fU1ezPbiMMudfi8sEFb0b0+YS4MhXB8w3GSUMCGOQReyxQOg7AHI7z T41z8YZ5M/GC5GufB8PDmJxUtvIwHoPTuXzSET39m5AIYfiKmBM2Qf7LbG32EbhZuXvUpkASlg2 n4wio3EJCJERpigzRbfWlGeKvDAA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHjzraZJwbREJEGRjaIERywY02FrD9xAtHVwFmcjPnWSMJuPUgdNtyLeRL+Clt+LAsZSjdiWw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:354a:b0:607:28c9:c3c9 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61d26869e20mr20804380a12.6.1757095527879; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 11:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro2 (p200300e0b7152600f43e7871b8a78a3e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b715:2600:f43e:7871:b8a7:8a3e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61cfc1c7caesm16629744a12.9.2025.09.05.11.05.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 05 Sep 2025 11:05:27 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Helmut Eller Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 20:05:26 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Helmut Eller writes: >>> I've been using this: >> >> Thanks. I'll try to get that into my Emacs a bit later because I have >> some changes here that lead to conflicts. > > Using environment variables is probably better anyway. Eli doesn't want > to add command line args for the sake of MPS and with environment > variables its easier to keep this inside igc.c. Okay. Good for me, less work :-). > >> Concerning feature/igc, I've come to the conclusion that it's probably >> best for my peace when I ignore its existence and don't push anything >> there anymore, either your changes or mine. > > I suppose it would also be best for my peace :-) ... > >> I could make a new branch though if you like. Just tell. > > ... but I don't quite see how we should make progress without some > shared branch. I've branched a new scratch/igc2 from feature/igc for more "freestyle" changes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 05 14:06:03 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2025 18:06:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57182 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuap0-0000ic-My for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 14:06:03 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x62d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62d]:53710) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuaow-0000hq-Ko for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 14:05:59 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04271cfc3eso325105966b.3 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 11:05:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757095551; x=1757700351; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=qLOeC4DQ/n5bYfRKYE7UHvyQ8ui+fqlvCU/cp42Scbs=; b=VtvlqlJhXcaNEqSeETeQckRZHEdz057LDtehLOrMF//MplLMLt2A2IJMOAmiwrSL5L rS+h2EDDKdq4N1/l5u0bZHMj0YjwWxakUHGZKbSJaz4zO23cQ+NUR4xKIGI/s/2A4Kwf KHqr/vDR0l3b0wibDqRbE8OyC5fdSkgLRC8sYeUi/pfeXFe3WCqD1WUy9tvJCxdaVcU8 kBUrNqluLplUagmbUjwB1Ndlf0mIFAvE8gVLU6gR5zUNp6ED99fzGtr/FLgj6phvmyrM 143AfcQEB7X1d9fmrpEX2Qv2KmYVnUX1BQReq339tgr2av4ORu64arNw/TWAY0th03wl 71QQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757095551; x=1757700351; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=qLOeC4DQ/n5bYfRKYE7UHvyQ8ui+fqlvCU/cp42Scbs=; b=nySi2yB3aerVNF6L6cXtI3hOsN4A0ygNHpa6J4FHJ4aDXQWdFVvFK3P3rDmV+gTXf0 gBgAg8TuzpfAMOu1IKDQAvh3B3npcGYfDXnRXJmLiiYnzr8hTAX5yIrXS9/meGhL/lV7 6jkNjafKXxq16Je1OFfa6G/77lCI8oOslzfGGcnF93Qams69advz+wiEUKq3/+2WhS23 gSrU+7yTshmVqkxyv/B6oevtjV88ES1QkO8eaLYyFsTmxVwLAzd1i9Q/K8A1naMVkUtp VXhUoKZCc2g7KumwJ5JtBQLq2H5Ue8HdRSY8Ep5CQqw6H5wZ0jNIS32mc3AZeuHQhk82 2Zng== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVMqQxwcOTjQseHj5WJkSLXprj1MgcIbYNb8oyhRuFPM6UXHDAgzb/UEbHpWkonOxSnii8HOQ==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyO5p6UFKhpy7mlwf4G8ApH/NvhLOMWYDheBJqfk4zBMqgMwA37 JmFJbUkXDFWrQh53bjiYMHrhH9fsaYXkL/TOXL+Raxpa2/b4ht5Egb7ZVbyAnA== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuYcSEL/wxrhC2I9tspFsK9I9Zek8ul5yUssKkahnKI9MNhNADw1WcSz+tI51Y ThrokG76FTTWg0TL+9IUaeUy+pMSOuL+t0OZi7iTVL9J6+bdLSxpF2cOROexMB63bmbt9ODOcz7 sNHESkV2vLQGHkCDedEK57joI6GQaLbNbgCzIQlCupBgFxrF/jm5VznKtPOnjkG954SfK9xb4eg PTz6pWw1z0fZRCgUiesiYrNc5Lm4irXuobJTQoKdc9mYEAiUYPwhoJOdCC1jPpteVgs9p5vre8k wv5UvJgyDAxqkcoz1ocEC26OUfdknLeit/Pw5pLzcs4k28byPtmBu51O2It69thTEuaPvjDRvOi ZVNZ0YCnMrOPEaTG2O79V8OI0gFFaQNWekuPYMHsLXSQINa+wNiqZ1YSkT0Yxi7cX+wQZZmFdZS CGFlWs6FnToAchv1X+hMOdYIeh7g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEf8iSjlyoqBL/8IQGfAF5W0Zj8cNcPbs+jqA8hFWAySEDjtgo0yDboOLzMQL2FnHhezyB5gw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:7e84:b0:b04:5829:97cd with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b0458299e4dmr1429102066b.52.1757095551159; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 11:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro2 (p200300e0b7152600f43e7871b8a78a3e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b715:2600:f43e:7871:b8a7:8a3e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b04093c9161sm1566682066b.54.2025.09.05.11.05.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 05 Sep 2025 11:05:50 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Helmut Eller Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <873490hmgr.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87plc6gezg.fsf@gmail.com> <873490hmgr.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 20:05:49 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Helmut Eller writes: >> Hadn't noticed that one, and it's a bit tldr. Maybe it's worth adding >> something to the MPS issue? > > Done. =F0=9F=91=8D From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 05 14:55:09 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2025 18:55:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57398 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uubaW-0003u7-M2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 14:55:09 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:19645) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uubaQ-0003tL-II for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2025 14:55:05 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1511A80820; Fri, 5 Sep 2025 14:54:56 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1757098495; bh=c/auLV1o7qDOyutEgO+Nv0YggRLbJxmNOWVD3llkrho=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=D5jBHtBz0OLC8/BqSYu0B3AMzF49yTiVU8PLISvji8ZlChYzq58kXJXIN4ECoFemx 8rEFAj9oL3UbMQfsQOdosLKX8gVRLHcMCBoGZtRiB6FQVN+2nTp9hch/gD699bv4jJ hqZ+qylv/oHLrdaPjMJzHvITkOen1o/xnCM2AJJDDAimlFEIbWkW8Q7ubH1St6Z1XA JaQ2fvXVM1IotV+Hri5OXkEZfe2EHDI+BLnphHqo5SXcRrJu33BEqFMhjLu7V1zb3T i2qrykwfOCVRHb7GiSASzHfZAwY8QZ+6dQDAXnjt4RvJLsLcLyIMnuyaYGdePRtOb6 8omipBUKIlNhA== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 5C5B580310; Fri, 5 Sep 2025 14:54:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alfajor (modemcable103.88-202-24.mc.videotron.ca [24.202.88.103]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 37446120401; Fri, 5 Sep 2025 14:54:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86tt1hif11.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87plc6gezg.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1hif11.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 14:54:54 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -1.294 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain ENA_SUBJ_ODD_CASE 2.6 Subject has odd case X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, Helmut Eller X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > AFAIU, this makes GC-on-idle run off an idle timer, instead of using > internal implementation in C, is that right? > > If so, I'm not very happy doing this, as the default mechanism. > Timers are hard to reason about, when other timers, let alone other > Lisp threads, are present, and the result might be more complex > system, which is harder to understand and maintain. Is it necessary to have "GC-on-idle"? If not, I think it's OK to have it implemented only in Lisp. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 02:44:00 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 06:44:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32905 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uumeV-0005H0-5f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 02:43:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33010) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uumeP-0005Fm-4a for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 02:43:55 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uumeJ-00074r-7u; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 02:43:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=KoadZBPiiOS6smRSmqThcZQZcoR0OdiV29JWxYrDnG4=; b=Mnqhl5cgcdam vxJKDGXy2uWl9sBaSPOw918DX+tgi10vkPmra/Qc9JmVDqiQCAgnpMrpxW3O8vuID6QMjLdQxpr99 w5wTtBlAxlSgh0P9rXqI33GFSbWY1kLZkhWcqzoaWWcheAKdiMtuilBPDt1/QiaSiENZYICFsqj0o aYvoRWwpOpAMkLIpYRtjD595vVPOeSiKxtHCuPglcefmvjTC9iMplhuhF2n2JQGGTMJu6PJzTM0O/ as1SOD3YfQ36syr4VElQOobhSPj5RD3hbJEpkxxNn9mqcyP8BIr+1VsyhBu1WSWQOVgmpCisSHwq4 Bz8EKtQ/o5qeVQIIjQ3ilw==; Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:43:42 +0300 Message-Id: <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Fri, 05 Sep 2025 18:50:43 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 18:50:43 +0200 > > >> I've been using this: > > > > Thanks. I'll try to get that into my Emacs a bit later because I have > > some changes here that lead to conflicts. > > Using environment variables is probably better anyway. Eli doesn't want > to add command line args for the sake of MPS and with environment > variables its easier to keep this inside igc.c. I don't like environment variables either: they get in the way when you run Emacs from within another Emacs, in which case the two Emacs sessions might use different Emacs builds and versions. Using environment variables for debugging purposes might be semi-okay, but people should keep the above problem in mind when they do it. > > Concerning feature/igc, I've come to the conclusion that it's probably > > best for my peace when I ignore its existence and don't push anything > > there anymore, either your changes or mine. > > I suppose it would also be best for my peace :-) ... If people who are working on igc abandon the branch, I don't see how we can ever land this on master. Of course, if that is also better for your peace, then so be it... > > I could make a new branch though if you like. Just tell. > > ... but I don't quite see how we should make progress without some > shared branch. Exactly. And another branch in the repository will only muddy the waters and make landing this on master harder, if not impossible. Personally, I will be very sad if this work gets abandoned, but I cannot do anything when people express feelings like those expressed above. It's eventually up to those who work on the feature and are motivated to get it into mainline. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 02:45:21 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 06:45:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32927 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uumfk-0005Qo-ER for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 02:45:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45226) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uumfg-0005Pl-2g for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 02:45:13 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uumfa-0007NW-C3; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 02:45:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=+jGvUajDiREl1ZFB6OaTtLOZM6j5zWBp38kRMamrsUA=; b=N7b9kBV7B0iG lhrhC8mvRUFPen1GLy51Q0SIFue07oD/vQfCT1/R89RGErDPpsoxDrPULo6jSF+eDr1xk4QoNVlg0 eHjraJzHRuzAIZJc7gSnv3tyVKju12IWCbuHEa5vEUQ9nCosEi6PCOhWsY9MH0K2ytv/J0Vonj/Q0 gwR7bl9kUl0+4TnQuiM8sTisfy/qHnuumD7d5vsRSNYWZuys0PfgBJ5ZMHOper/T9kd4JhdvHhbmG 1nxnkb8RPYQH6Anr6t90jko9x+3UlTw/68olFdnGebkhgR2M4LW3KbyTz0WQap8XjJVh2+GRff3LN 2lRoSAKO4ith9jyf4k92Lw==; Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:45:04 +0300 Message-Id: <867bychyfj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <87v7lwg7ls.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Fri, 05 Sep 2025 18:57:35 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87plc6gezg.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1hif11.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lwg7ls.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 18:57:35 +0200 > > On Fri, Sep 05 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > [...] > >> Below is a patch that does this. > >> > >> The idle timer waits 2 seconds, before it calls mps_arena_step. As > >> usual, "idle time" is the time since the last command completed, i.e. 2 > >> seconds must pass after a command before the idle timer fires. (Other > >> timers or process filters don't reset "idle time"; only new commands > >> do.) I think that should avoid the problem that I've seen where > >> opportunistic GC was started while I was in the middle of typing > >> something. > >> > >> The code uses a constant to predict the idle time; maybe one could to > >> something a bit more clever; not sure if that would be worth the > >> trouble. > > > > AFAIU, this makes GC-on-idle run off an idle timer, instead of using > > internal implementation in C, is that right? > > Yes, right. > > > If so, I'm not very happy doing this, as the default mechanism. > > Timers are hard to reason about, when other timers, let alone other > > Lisp threads, are present, and the result might be more complex > > system, which is harder to understand and maintain. > > > > It is okay to allow this to run off an idle timer, as an opt-in > > feature. But let's leave the internal implementation as the default, > > at least for now. > > The patch was not committed, AFAIK. I know. I guess I'm asking to please rework it as an optional feature, instead of an unconditional replacement. Is that possible and reasonably feasible? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 02:56:09 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 06:56:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33040 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uumqG-00076j-Rs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 02:56:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56022) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uumqB-00075E-To for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 02:56:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uumq4-0001HN-UQ; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 02:55:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=Vy7fT8mqwmCz3F3pTt5sOCm1gItGst9gcs/FVCXl10g=; b=SNH3JjyPkoBsvsaVeCdB xF+oywoT9T0E4g7hvR/Kl6iSyubAWiyelrpzXoS39hOcIhPtE4TdGtFox/gY1zRIbQFNkKva/yNNS L5U/TopvJzMMx7CF+d+qF7mtPn0wTPxjqR7PR2tEnkY/NSp4lM5tDDus59nlwlTgmZ6gu7bBGplsI H5ayoPUr1ey0Gp/hVL9nUeKHpz+cleQ3/2HEKWXsD/KS+6neBejbwU8BNff8Zw8Wb1yQbkCqOiXpw hO2VhAiWVxbq8UIhcueiu410DYCa5iuplmo4eRhxFh8FDGan5ECbJTYhIqGALGbtImc03l5nDAXWM I9M+0CcbdLDEqQ==; Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:55:53 +0300 Message-Id: <861pokhxxi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gerd =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6llmann?= In-Reply-To: (message from Gerd =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6llmann?= on Fri, 05 Sep 2025 20:05:26 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Gerd Möllmann > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 20:05:26 +0200 > > I've branched a new scratch/igc2 from feature/igc for more "freestyle" > changes. Will someone merge from that branch to feature/igc? Or is this a completely independent effort? IOW, what is the intended use of this new branch, and how, if at all will it fit into the work on adding igc to Emacs? For example, if I have an igc-related change to install, on which of the two branches should I do that? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 03:01:36 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 07:01:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33108 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uumvX-0007rB-Fn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 03:01:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51614) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uumvT-0007pD-E5 for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 03:01:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uumvL-0002Ns-NM; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 03:01:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=WyMnrnRY8KvapTgx7oec5D6PH/JatGsYuhYk6U77hzA=; b=ZrocZyS22KZg aWKJ+nbLo1GSPO3viuFkPbjSYpDcaARBkAXkaCai1mfOV4PVOXMY1e3LTvWl+/I0UnZP+1v9ji6Pw gmKLV6UFqo08R4i4G62Jcq575IBnHHl2UrqzCBhYfe+EMjwPYjg/LV0R3jJAHp63wdZGkNk0QRd2a Lvejjac9Y6ztvsD0oIBTSUm1mf5nQJb2sovj4QnCJ2EKmr3OKInh6OhYe4oRYslvJQ+V201HzDh/h 2LBZfu4X9OZcFlwcK2ScUl8uOcreRh804EGFAjK020GXGiFQ/+8T2HhHeusVqVpboPvZW7OmnO6+L 0tm1Kpr1WfWQv/I1CgyuHw==; Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 10:01:15 +0300 Message-Id: <86wm6cgj44.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Fri, 05 Sep 2025 14:54:54 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87plc6gezg.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1hif11.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Helmut Eller , gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, > 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 14:54:54 -0400 > > > AFAIU, this makes GC-on-idle run off an idle timer, instead of using > > internal implementation in C, is that right? > > > > If so, I'm not very happy doing this, as the default mechanism. > > Timers are hard to reason about, when other timers, let alone other > > Lisp threads, are present, and the result might be more complex > > system, which is harder to understand and maintain. > > Is it necessary to have "GC-on-idle"? I don't know. The original implementation did have it. > If not, I think it's OK to have it implemented only in Lisp. If it becomes an optional feature, and if having it is not deemed necessary, I'm okay with that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 03:02:35 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 07:02:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33126 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uumwV-0007zO-4T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 03:02:35 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x62b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62b]:42081) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uumwQ-0007z2-49 for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 03:02:31 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b00a9989633so529068866b.0 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 00:02:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757142143; x=1757746943; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=OmGMtmiMX548UxnLguTk2LOwegVlPh79Z9FlH79eSlw=; b=AVPvIUHEkjjOoIxfl2vI9Q8ixShwYRacJwSrFto1Ivdjbv8Z+Wut+qCXAvugnIEXMj SHVfrl3IVJ2wlBHRwXtHAV2HnHdl/8rIzCNLz12gdpauRJJ4x5/3xC3abfELpE1YDHmT gXnyHp0s4nZ1bWLAjYxbo5rt8Nh0zRCQAm7YOhl5QSGHVuQA0vONYIX2y/YpgyJbNZOh BfFhPOyiRfjGPcOsOt451DsrxU076a/FfbI4ZbatDOj2iwXxfcOi4ZoBaJrJ3C3qG4To KhnciNbyQJjoaY2vtuxXcm38cXkVc/hAVT5eo5kpIGAcmob31o9CyuFB80l9dRlmOKwz eFyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757142143; x=1757746943; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=OmGMtmiMX548UxnLguTk2LOwegVlPh79Z9FlH79eSlw=; b=erwO+1/YQXSPAuHbsl+1ByQV37WB9dp1nrPPohG2BRfiWYDHkSZTFwLMYxveXiTYhA nVcfGcVuHS+qaU9BaeDr3KtZiuQ7/WAdOcrLUn1t373A83hVBuYVlDmW3skWPb5FOmwX 7EsBKT76NfLGpp8gCSI9OrIq1ORfsKmwuWyYWeSlnz2uTosF+LrcsgWryhaG1qlbuw3L mAeq5p7n1tOHlwt2NCSZ4lbeIS+kLO229LitdwXbIXm3nbVY7Ku8dGbps/DyWbMtpdWq dRAsZW7nZKnsiiWCOHOCqXecthKM7lZ7KCm7waYfKHtzeldmaEYUW/cL/fJh3BINs9zE ukgg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXAZN3KaEhwFOgq9KGW9rKPKOKjBHJ8ebOiXiDiGSTwEv8m+kdBwQ5TG7h+aSneyE1UiBXa/w==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyYuHCDI0lY+2INn3F5w39suKUKvCGG+3MzPXjMIM9//agoyIL6 mg4rL6sLB3v0ko0BwiGyhB06SOLeN6uEKQLGvFjGQIR/ipk63SBqHS0rjVRVvg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsLcEa28WjuTxLmEujH8iAUkOyJ4la6yiF4GGiZUA6t2K2SZ+zJ/aiZiW7vlbt iBg56biPlBof7ICg2RkCKZaV9boJa6TdoUEZKH94xpKJ9NU61AWnTJobyDoQLOBiMBHQrSmV8Lc 6f+cIvh9lyQvWxo2oJlhci9IGF2snD/Wr/XQS1b9CE+8C9AVCTEP1en3lGHQfblDjVuTerW/h2o BAK/AzvyDu0ETGAQZ/KV8HTXla4UAC3h54cnxH9Va/3R7d1aY2pI0rFeHmQIg9aXul096qwMVdG 0A6K33ayIJhY1VBlc/AjRFKpiIkg8CXPrE6l0H+F6hPrYCALISm/v4tqwhOAUlemW6zxstSrYcc twTWD2V4hoPUvf4Ak5Yh/2nIqiVf3Yihy190W/VU7JKattBi/s8VkHyZAAxv1cAEqKlhv8TOfKf hNfW78u1/I80Jk75DotH+5lgbtaWjSJQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHt4Eo7qdaGwOTs+YTmGJxpeRuYik+PJYIrkYLwK/M5ZCoCT2NWRf9qaRQ7l07ZvDiQV6Sd8g== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:c2a:b0:b04:2c2e:50a5 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04b1f0d207mr155701466b.16.1757142143108; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 00:02:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro2 (p200300e0b71d62000d57960a7a4fd7b7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b71d:6200:d57:960a:7a4f:d7b7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b048009e7d1sm565433566b.69.2025.09.06.00.02.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 Sep 2025 00:02:22 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <861pokhxxi.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <861pokhxxi.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:02:21 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 20:05:26 +0200 >>=20 >> I've branched a new scratch/igc2 from feature/igc for more "freestyle" >> changes. > > Will someone merge from that branch to feature/igc? Or is this a > completely independent effort? > > IOW, what is the intended use of this new branch, and how, if at all > will it fit into the work on adding igc to Emacs? > > For example, if I have an igc-related change to install, on which of > the two branches should I do that? ATM, it's thought of a place where one can experiment with things without being faced with bureaucratic hurdles, so to speak. Depends on whether Helmut finds that useful, otherwise I'd delete it again. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 03:40:52 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 07:40:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33544 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uunXX-0004eW-K3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 03:40:52 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x62d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62d]:58459) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uunXS-0004eC-OB for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 03:40:47 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-afeec747e60so520150366b.0 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 00:40:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757144440; x=1757749240; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Fuy4zWJGxmO7DGOPHz6uPskmhMld0F7aGTbMBGQkUAQ=; b=LVJrQCDkdexYhvfM3g+6FFdNJqrYv4cBC67E/aTL0QJEY6IN07HerGs2Oe1InYB7US jSZqMYZZ332xZiMCotDlFkno2lX0E8XBZgpBZA9WDSaQoQd+bZozIrWjTKcbW7AuLbWF nRq84X4HVsRVrmnhzvtS2ASTCSB0CAYuZTN1buyau8APp3JeLP5XySvYOR7WRJlWCtcQ rR0kPZNDOzwKMM/681Ql2n7pDR1zvMfKy3baz3I/AtfRoB2cM/zeUMsM6KuWYuJxf2zd 4MBzr7u5vcljgC3UjFZDWk3ecgpNVP9EyNuqciZtqPoqHXLdUpmbWuKjaNvn/bAmfrI3 B09Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757144440; x=1757749240; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Fuy4zWJGxmO7DGOPHz6uPskmhMld0F7aGTbMBGQkUAQ=; b=d5V4++4+JrsLlXFCbDR30rSMAKoJyN4SiADl0sM9USm0rC+/e6ZpWBcDPdqsl7znos C3rSUin36ofMgR18BxkHYEIpRpPYIOsl3Q66tYZtlJwpG1P4MIARQywI3A1e1VUEvqqS 4vgGQNYGRHy8Mu/gvsc5T4dBtL+igtqBnPJ9oYV544i+q5LFB7EvxiV7VWnC19TppOgP InAAk0iScLWmcd5npZlB9ikxRTdYLfAFiuu+FZ6HzdowmXJ63LJrMiytZH/8B58h8mJ/ x0FVnkKKEpt+KRk4tXzKyShhlau0/qPCx8TDRYeZjBODAx3FwBKTb+/7liw4MK5xHApj 9M4A== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXRl1I6UbAJ5hfT3kBVklBcABGiqX4Z34Pm1EZqv0kKsMSzOfI0wCc/uA+CDwCH5oy7GegmEQ==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxaLnCY8wawdV7ckEr4CrURbCCPWEg74gL79o/K8yl7gkxyvYMS qNV9DVa74mAb1IooK7OO1630zM5WuDprhsl6ibVnz09ZOJnQkSs6vwGf66fttQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvYYHLo0X1KIDf4JeXL4Nj9E61cK4bJ8H8cxCzKLewaC0fAnpNodVM4iN9rJB0 pGT637i8fGoRJ8iQaTpv6ogf612vnQxXhmCbB3gUgKon9BYzt1hMvJ6bzhtbm8HtB2RTuZZpRpg G7hWCjkmZYvQ8AvMfCE+yFVXrX0lPphnSDoQjqKJTgR7m8ChtCZ2H8nFhxwWqtP/SByOklWeRvS 3A8TrFRGa8GxN95NL+Z8rwpahapneVoTgCT5G/zzsHKmKcy/DEtVx/wtAgfp47wrxictaJyalk7 a5fJEedeOJ7v7z59X58clWH4ovRRUhxf5zXK4HRNaaDfm+6++EQUV6MnjHMT7j1gSIL+jyNmcNF YYneMzNzQ82MijLL29HZvqCtLTx1WMyhFhI3iXteyrahyNEvymiF1WLkPpURHkLA4ouA2nGFF6v ZbjQw3xEbqqmey3rHtjpV96j2osXX69A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF3vWMZSkH0AmByrWvPKmg74eUaPZTzoe2Vz/a4ipV1ysaY8umPqW8HP3OCFGJOhVhvq9s+Gw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:9612:b0:b04:70f8:d454 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04b167e38fmr113651466b.51.1757144439513; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 00:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro2 (p200300e0b71d62000d57960a7a4fd7b7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b71d:6200:d57:960a:7a4f:d7b7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b043fd772bcsm1237635366b.14.2025.09.06.00.40.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 Sep 2025 00:40:39 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:40:38 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, Helmut Eller X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Helmut Eller >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 18:50:43 +0200 >> >> >> I've been using this: >> > >> > Thanks. I'll try to get that into my Emacs a bit later because I have >> > some changes here that lead to conflicts. >> >> Using environment variables is probably better anyway. Eli doesn't want >> to add command line args for the sake of MPS and with environment >> variables its easier to keep this inside igc.c. > > I don't like environment variables either: they get in the way when > you run Emacs from within another Emacs, in which case the two Emacs > sessions might use different Emacs builds and versions. Using > environment variables for debugging purposes might be semi-okay, but > people should keep the above problem in mind when they do it. > >> > Concerning feature/igc, I've come to the conclusion that it's probably >> > best for my peace when I ignore its existence and don't push anything >> > there anymore, either your changes or mine. >> >> I suppose it would also be best for my peace :-) ... > > If people who are working on igc abandon the branch, I don't see how > we can ever land this on master. Of course, if that is also better > for your peace, then so be it... > >> > I could make a new branch though if you like. Just tell. >> >> ... but I don't quite see how we should make progress without some >> shared branch. > > Exactly. And another branch in the repository will only muddy the > waters and make landing this on master harder, if not impossible. > > Personally, I will be very sad if this work gets abandoned, but I > cannot do anything when people express feelings like those expressed > above. It's eventually up to those who work on the feature and are > motivated to get it into mainline. >From what I see in git, as a bystander, either more or less everyone involved has lost interest, or it's considered stable, and there's not much more to do. Or a mixture of that. Considering that I haven't heard of Stefan Kangas and Andrea for quite some time after initial "enthusiasm", I think that at least these two have lost interest. For me it looks like it either lands in master soon, or it'll inevitably bit-rot. Maybe sad, don't know, I have no hard feelings about that, but OTOH, it's also only another anecdote in the 40 years of Emacs. And - if people really have lost interest, maybe it's good if it gets abandoned before it lands and then is another unmaintained feature like some GUI front-ends, multi-tty and whatnot. Just my 2 cents. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 03:44:01 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 07:44:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33560 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uunaa-0004kK-Jm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 03:44:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55392) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uunaX-0004jv-MB for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 03:43:58 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uunaR-000353-1Q; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 03:43:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=9wmRNQjdm+bEkD92MZwM8Z37l7w6QGGyGfUoK8VuPCA=; b=K+OjvUcuRd+AFBPNz7JX mt3HMUJgfMZnyCJcJlowrxaIjnuYQwmhAKR1KUredd8+3jNAjjFivY76k4l+iwNqFTKj3G0KhzElj H06+F4pYY3b+Fd4heKDQaT111oGms0xcKVousC8hM6tEX9aUSa4w24Ilz0s++vjGq6cwVCpg0kziP j5nml68FbFp8ym4ZVaYjaybRiVf+kJCAxqjbSpFtrsKZL54SdNf/esnmaZEADa/vxcrTo5yx0nhFz wVd5W1lzc7N3zP2uHFR0jRZv9fl2m4OJPcmfmvUdsAXYf9ZMwnEUQza4LHxDQQz+7LvlnDW7AOlvL RZUs3cAv+Gwpsw==; Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 10:43:46 +0300 Message-Id: <86qzwkgh59.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= In-Reply-To: (message from Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=B6llmann?= on Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:02:21 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <861pokhxxi.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Gerd Möllmann > Cc: eller.helmut@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:02:21 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> From: Gerd Möllmann > >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 20:05:26 +0200 > >> > >> I've branched a new scratch/igc2 from feature/igc for more "freestyle" > >> changes. > > > > Will someone merge from that branch to feature/igc? Or is this a > > completely independent effort? > > > > IOW, what is the intended use of this new branch, and how, if at all > > will it fit into the work on adding igc to Emacs? > > > > For example, if I have an igc-related change to install, on which of > > the two branches should I do that? > > ATM, it's thought of a place where one can experiment with things > without being faced with bureaucratic hurdles, so to speak. Depends on > whether Helmut finds that useful, otherwise I'd delete it again. What "bureaucratic hurdles" are those? Also, does this mean this branch is only for Helmut (and maybe yourself) to use, and others should not push anything there without talking to you first? And my question about merges still stands, in case this branch will get some changes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 03:48:50 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 07:48:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33586 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uunfE-00055Y-RC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 03:48:50 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x535.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::535]:54576) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uunf9-00054u-VC for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 03:48:45 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x535.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-625e1ef08eeso192513a12.1 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 00:48:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757144917; x=1757749717; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=77ON2r+UiY2MsjsDt4FKIx3jrpx50oINKTGW5wjga2o=; b=PyjTJaNaqTPFhC41FcUOTpqcn8r0pP3QLCOrwkSfBVL1CMVVtU5L/pTeCSMOL9smEh BI6Iuxc6O+a651NfoZ2GujNKkOTuo4blHZBgcCtBgdGqHvf4Rx4AlhM4tpG6aTT+24yz Eiy6MNDdzs5P5NBDybGaYukqbIMBZEi1Rw75rn2zc1QQrNG1m5D+lM6ZxmdNPy0qi6ft hBJcJ+W1RIJe8DlQsV79zG/NWG5q25QColVq5UBTctt/wagy5pN/WFFBfwhm9Cp8I+d1 wixT/S7Zf9Ea38HgPEtGzPZiVV8wsYnkLNaiCWdWr3IVgVn2rwnikQlPnj2/3nlJy4a4 qtKA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757144917; x=1757749717; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=77ON2r+UiY2MsjsDt4FKIx3jrpx50oINKTGW5wjga2o=; b=QCnM/J6v5r5jA3D5n/IBPBvYgjZzPX6+zqB55Eptm3cWbvX2eKLVWc76ol/f0jMArt D0JIrbTbvOu+vQBb4N7ACf8+kQTDh1bCtVRhyzjKPCy0EVNWRePJk1gOwbPKaswGquan 4zP4SATiyrYbHlca+E7LHC/r5n/TLXmXAHmJ9ButJN/+emMAd3maQlcIzJs2nHrjh4/u 67l5LXsipifc393H73qKFlB2yRxlMZEwCu51gOYrV5ON43Bm4ZzA07/fY1WKpMdVZjp8 swFQvmHF0hkI8O+Nh+WMC4wB4fDc9ri2Ccz3i1yCC7xtaQZogochor1v37h3p52O+Q1l 387g== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUA+98G7bIbe21MtgX9VMwHu5IGywitzzzLxE6B5EdfjKeMjnqrK1Duf0pIxbc4ck1elBhBtw==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyDeIlH+b4VF28AImrCSoGTc5iDdn+kcWfPw1FsFagYtx1BMh7T gnKn/0eGXVABsdvRF5fy3P3iNk0mTvM/GdkhqYz8Qn3Cj/RXNn/5vmPIJlQXuQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvZT58qqCikKQg7X6fNb3yteC+vSHBXpjhlBcnEyfvFLYEeP9WFGz+ottv6wFm mCaOE5Mkv9+lTpk5kFo+RPhHN/Px6/2wblaKY3EhARdvrErEAv0G83LmwYYXrHzvEjAVaQpvI/H Zi16V8ZCq1Vs9EFHslAeDTRS9hZF7Z/6xFQmsfoLEpAe9MLoASZFYFEtlrDlh34Q0mJ0VfrtOna bxQW9hSKM0/L8sVl5mKfZ8L9NViG+K6U4I8EvqvqoJpNz2/oPbz4Yr4fU0unRbFJiC8lKFonebS lLr2e+EIMHUi5cC83bD8iopAVyIM2/ibFfdoNBtkhDzQfHj62emw2BPsA+u3RyVzeBSaH8tDX6i TW9Yxg3OPKTY8yb2SwKtiL2xG9R6Jo+iIQ5evha2WYIFTdZCmtBTLmcwSYb1wABrvE3JarP2B2Y gFk75mP1C7fTlLsM5mFiA7bmkzhCfy0oORmbpMgic3 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEe3g889/wE82lpN9W5EO450fYs/MY6UMs8xDew5Y99YBYrYH1hMbMQhJFBE5EgAWhnuBCzvA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:520d:b0:622:b89c:d4ae with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-623805bc71cmr1239051a12.34.1757144916768; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 00:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro2 (p200300e0b71d62000d57960a7a4fd7b7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b71d:6200:d57:960a:7a4f:d7b7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-62573ffa116sm496410a12.30.2025.09.06.00.48.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 Sep 2025 00:48:36 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86qzwkgh59.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <861pokhxxi.fsf@gnu.org> <86qzwkgh59.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:48:34 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: SW>> From: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann >> Cc: eller.helmut@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:02:21 +0200 >>=20 >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >>=20 >> >> From: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann >> >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 20:05:26 +0200 >> >>=20 >> >> I've branched a new scratch/igc2 from feature/igc for more "freestyle" >> >> changes. >> > >> > Will someone merge from that branch to feature/igc? Or is this a >> > completely independent effort? >> > >> > IOW, what is the intended use of this new branch, and how, if at all >> > will it fit into the work on adding igc to Emacs? >> > >> > For example, if I have an igc-related change to install, on which of >> > the two branches should I do that? >>=20 >> ATM, it's thought of a place where one can experiment with things >> without being faced with bureaucratic hurdles, so to speak. Depends on >> whether Helmut finds that useful, otherwise I'd delete it again. > > What "bureaucratic hurdles" are those? A feature branch has some rules to follow, I'd guess.=20 > > Also, does this mean this branch is only for Helmut (and maybe > yourself) to use, and others should not push anything there without > talking to you first? Yes. > And my question about merges still stands, in case this branch will > get some changes. No automatic merges from there to feature/igc.=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 10:14:11 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 14:14:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36672 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uutgB-0002KA-2B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 10:14:11 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-x52b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::52b]:49256) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uutg6-0002JT-DA for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 10:14:07 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-x52b.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-b482fd89b0eso2603539a12.2 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 07:14:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757168039; x=1757772839; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Fsy/8WTqT4dSkdGtY0Ls/uTeBy9/S2F7UEfXH0lGAzI=; b=M1NJyymtorNHyiuo/TbK9UzchLSzeA3JlJNVlnRaNPKZgDx6QywV0O29RlHW8KKDER 7E9EzYGQYK2GUVAO2hwwBI+0LyoKRFu+jbHIB/CuYINIm24LGSKVqNV0XScCzU+PZNSS xQMOkkza0SIK35R1jzG9Z6HdUnGIbdvOtbiiIh1q/YcvLg0BxxtCICkVmgL87FZeIONJ p0GTe9TF8Zwjb81yanM+0MTf0CfV/Qd5xKVGOorVlowIoJWlmY1ourflNyQdLACR2nlh 9fzjyTLD3sgC+onoDUz1h8yNC4ODRCx5F5cC37oWoAlrxM3ufFWUpNiNyIEOxRchyKCz qXJg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757168039; x=1757772839; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Fsy/8WTqT4dSkdGtY0Ls/uTeBy9/S2F7UEfXH0lGAzI=; b=XtQdEWK9GagRxRnaqOS3FXUoZ7pHpn6hZvZLT4kWf9XMTfeWaqYILq+hRfrnTyiPYv EWsyNgzkrviI+Bp36zlxhvog6yq/f5M7fm8CYrdhCbxEwVArPKVyeUw5ii2TxchPyHmY yVWtrWRrojk6AloJmsNP+XcgwGuVQEr8Hb/4aoJJU8GPcfe0JB/aLknoB/DwxP3sn6AD ipKrulqt1vjaQjkRxOqn8IsXylE5caVvX/jrKJ8Bu1cq7MRWp/Vj7gg6QKDF3LsG7PJU iZ2myPkh0KRQDyub20bpyey8tTlnqnp+2fu4MHtuYq2s62y4qD69uMb4+buF3NKdyfGn /r9Q== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWVOO1YXJu/pqV50S3+e2wbIrOTuo4DjtW6M+vOQpx0IrNVA2D2AJ7gPPucg7z0OwyKKcZc5A==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwzHUdfxvmM7t7j7e6LvvIxEheR/rrMs2bwbupuSmCj5IJctM46 akLWpxob6//ymUYlFS2ZRNzT3R7sk4uPa+FOPRD5tIWFCAejM9vGZcvq X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvRA5CyPutrC5DThVmRDn/OA1Vi2Rbj5r/qLPO0k8r3I8zyA+ZNQ6eFaGRRKge 06XRMbExsoB525MVsiMapkuJauOZwuvKaEOl9Bd3zJU/dtDDObVgGChk1ztPTsYo71CxwaRr/WG n3nIVwJH4A+9JjAvnBDCJPN+s0sxDW98Bh/pSD5nuPyrC05MLHdyfA9Ic1Gfqfszxya15aLGnYY JCwd3ZySL//ai+y4jw+6IpNa+3fzVsEDHUQw+lBARCY0jcSIOSzrOAK9mRYZOAS3+T9RbLl9Qsm K7Bp6TNrqVjiCDh3l0Er0vuBdJBhkTsm8ZJydiSZAzPb7TvromWVMU47zEg/2rGrhEeDwX056tG QS9fZeRBgDNM0sGAnNaqFzh3xQ/yRAgKi+r+UbClrOw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFAaPMVMKcGpU9r7ukJE8z5VXs0s/XXGQEM3Ir/odI33V/IBXysjtgvDEaMX8jr89IgG5b74w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:ce0a:b0:251:2d4d:bde9 with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-251749399bbmr33010975ad.58.1757168039484; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 07:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([58.84.61.16]) by smtp.gmail.com with UTF8SMTPSA id d9443c01a7336-24c9304b790sm96621845ad.67.2025.09.06.07.13.58 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 Sep 2025 07:13:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Payas Relekar To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 19:43:53 +0530 Message-ID: <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Helmut Eller , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Gerd M=C3=B6llmann writes: > From what I see in git, as a bystander, either more or less everyone > involved has lost interest, or it's considered stable, and there's not > much more to do. Just my =C2=A22. I've been daily-driving feature/igc for few months now, and other than couple of crashes early on, it has been pretty smooth sailing for past couple of months at least. I'd very much like to see it land in master, hopefully in time for next release, even if igc isn't enabled by default. I'm not particularly fond of running master day-to-day, but am very much willing to build stable with different flag for igc. My distro of choice can easily support both variants (already does for emacs-nox and pgtk) and I will be happy to add and maintain another variant for igc. Anyway, a lot of work has been poured into feature/igc, I can attest to its stability (for what its worth) and would really like to see it merged. Thanks, Payas From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 10:47:01 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 14:47:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36803 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuuBw-00045A-Qz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 10:47:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43970) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuuBt-00044u-Ps for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 10:46:58 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uuuBl-00078E-9U; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 10:46:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=PXUUEOQKF+ZYbcQYFAnoWGd5hl3ZIf064LfF1n8Lb9k=; b=G4Bte2u1lkVVbBMY8bnn vehcgGkJHP6Of7DIim1Es6HCUZfwx5JzPXJBK5YFCoGo1/sp/dCz5A/X04wvf5EHvOzNtqNZgW69i ti2TnoDS/wH8QJhMKctfVnRvCbjj0qk8TJg6LTmJfRy74nnxZoPqdqS1jbcLVAubBq59wXvFNHnp/ IkI5QBLAmireZaLlVmM7AuddI4uC2EIXaMihdeP8259n0+V+qZiS9YyXuLocUc4JS1TmCciuKwk3o mGoH3PwQ42ktLaaJMh9PH5NgEgsJ8fP3D+TZDgCWnPLKXLhRzeREaH8kSmYgxkLYni9LNvzFg8fn+ bc8NORbHUPF7aw==; Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 17:46:47 +0300 Message-Id: <868qirfxk8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Payas Relekar In-Reply-To: <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Payas Relekar on Sat, 06 Sep 2025 19:43:53 +0530) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Payas Relekar > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, Helmut Eller > > Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 19:43:53 +0530 > > Gerd Möllmann writes: > > > From what I see in git, as a bystander, either more or less everyone > > involved has lost interest, or it's considered stable, and there's not > > much more to do. > > Just my ¢2. I've been daily-driving feature/igc for few months now, and > other than couple of crashes early on, it has been pretty smooth sailing > for past couple of months at least. > > I'd very much like to see it land in master, hopefully in time for next > release, even if igc isn't enabled by default. I'm not particularly fond > of running master day-to-day, but am very much willing to build stable > with different flag for igc. My distro of choice can easily support both > variants (already does for emacs-nox and pgtk) and I will be happy to > add and maintain another variant for igc. > > Anyway, a lot of work has been poured into feature/igc, I can attest to > its stability (for what its worth) and would really like to see it > merged. Thanks for the feedback. >From where I stand, important changes are still being installed and discussed. Also, the discussion of whether to fork MPS has died without any clear conclusions. Both of these are signs that the branch is still not ready to land on master, its stability notwithstanding. And if we do decide to land this, we will need motivated individuals to react to issues and fix them in a timely manner, and do other mundane jobs that always pop up when a significant new feature lands on master. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 10:56:02 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 14:56:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36874 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuuKf-0004fa-IL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 10:56:02 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-x42c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::42c]:44416) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuuKb-0004eo-O0 for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 10:55:58 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-772679eb358so2837486b3a.1 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 07:55:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757170551; x=1757775351; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:message-id:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=GR1ddlqkk3CQc8wVKtre13r43SXeYCGGPc3nMN3m+SE=; b=CqJh4jTYqeV3zvT4iap8DaJEOPtWA6WukYRZBx886VeklAFqFkWwvHaggjyQHyul90 1kCM3ftiAd29rYXHjXqn3t769s6GKJlc6JpI2ELRBjOpdQi7E4EwrEpdhaBTYWGLU6D3 wavHorXA4hsluwcSdH13lxIbttAzgQgsitL0mu29hdJfz9GmkaOolQ1sjRISD16RdMuq knjrQYBd8Gl/yDtTYvnV2uhEq6xawAOgHSOrwNbSIB1tNjWZcdnZVKBlg5dD2X9+MA1C lRj1ZCHBH+14vliez59pZxjit0zfk+shE77mZrIXPAEKAMbQUoAxlllW58aMNWl8j/z6 lYHQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757170551; x=1757775351; h=mime-version:message-id:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=GR1ddlqkk3CQc8wVKtre13r43SXeYCGGPc3nMN3m+SE=; b=ftrpcg54Q/bNnFiDQCr0zYdESP57xLrCkMRf45MWY4UJaRgvzLPozUM4qN29m1EcKd otuVzf5blz8pirF1P7WQS/aYuOlhIlyp6kgXRxzyQEqhbPR58pipX1Ax0zT/KSTKWEjS P6qM1/oriJcWLuTZhAJPcHYR4pUuuEDEo/eRLQo8CAH/tsG9YDkw0L3Eoh+10fWMo6J7 LcQWFVySCqX+kmmnaw88t5XFeoR3AoGYIG4JCxWDYJ+gTLI20eSIS0EnFYeVJpI25u5W X75oCjYyKw5bVGSMtYADvN5ls+9wnQI6vAQ9RwDpY9GFU4K6GGPCXeCosIjTece+QkLs EYqw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUKkp1sC5kxGFg2IhUysweKkuQosKE9SI9OD8WQgPlN17pRu7TEN0qeVPRpVvc1wRuzf6bz5A==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyI489jqShFgrVSVCAayFbK512DIazhlcqj1UJeoxjtizKHEYCi FCfQRe5dlqa0CLYRGGwtsY86vG88Ue2BgQRjOjDpfclB2alIwNNzAEJ/ X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctWUspmmJ0q2TCe1b5jT+VSTxu6E0CRvZ+x/P2kY1WS2pN+c0a8UwpZ0HWiCnJ h31zvi7xVxjqZkOMtB+XanzmVYm0mC7gFjtdk//cUMtQlxo/JIS6EK/Y3/F4Xz3WzvRmTLjxlUa 2sfnynlKWw0S6PVUJCpUdnKEBaVYEpflLe782pqpkUuFzafXxQIfKDAXmMrxxSOKI+0jFmKwkho DhCIXi1e0sURhf5HZFLQTSlpObXmMzJTHartloPfq3QTZglxuf8EZ0IgtFJAtg0ZsEPBganAFgk ySPdKnSh4jICg98bXWTxLZClfFM7sMiRA7gwTBBoxkM7OiqeaandSeU0XH4U7Gg/MLYVqjB4PTS JMFDc0zmdN4CKuN9kJ3bU X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEP2sAFUS9FK2YAUo75HuDQsBPw29W/CI3EbDmwPoU+w81ngp5JiCEqUf2FlSrR1euFdt58PQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e849:b0:24e:7a4a:ec59 with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-2516dbf1ed0mr27871885ad.22.1757170550731; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 07:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([58.84.61.16]) by smtp.gmail.com with UTF8SMTPSA id d9443c01a7336-24b15780a11sm127691705ad.93.2025.09.06.07.55.49 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 Sep 2025 07:55:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Payas Relekar To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <868qirfxk8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> <868qirfxk8.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.12; emacs 31.0.50 Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:25:47 +0530 Message-ID: <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > From where I stand, important changes are still being installed and > discussed. Also, the discussion of whether to fork MPS has died > without any clear conclusions. Both of these are signs that the > branch is still not ready to land on master, its stability > notwithstanding. IIRC, the biggest con was having to keep up with upstream, which has barely changed in years. The whole vendoring discussion began because Emacs requires patches to MPS that aren't merged upstream because it moves so slow (or not at all). Should we get a round of votes from actual maintainers of feature/igc and just be done with this? Gerd/Helmut WDYT? > And if we do decide to land this, we will need motivated individuals > to react to issues and fix them in a timely manner, and do other > mundane jobs that always pop up when a significant new feature lands > on master. I'm unequipped to fix issues (I know as much C as our stray cat), but what kind of mundane jobs are you looking to get help with? If its bug triage or testing, I'm happy to apply. Regards, Payas -- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 11:10:49 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 15:10:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36991 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuuYz-0005Ya-HP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 11:10:49 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x630.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::630]:61475) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuuYu-0005YF-Gh for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 11:10:45 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x630.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04770a25f2so447746566b.2 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 08:10:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757171437; x=1757776237; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ybXn/0+PkwIzbCScgGJmwXUF+6Wzqlp+f+a+Ji+7Cuk=; b=PZeAKopcTcj18k72cbdjXKdXHruSWX84MdLUN1iBh3rRMgjnACoePgTRviarwPN4xw 3SjKGuuvJb4rzJUTQgglNmHZlLZKZRq9h6/hT7Yj2us/N1wwJmjwS/Z4jZqc43FITFce 93XwY2MxEl9qUDqjb3uQBkg+2nlXsCZo2jdG+vrW+CMMJBRqYd13szDAqCyNnHMK60uP JqSOAwbEk9SkWbPFhC2Tldrwy2gdW7CzFzX196J6VWSsAmzJFYPvH89jt6Usi1oZHGA7 wOnD1HSb8Fnffu0tU3PmSuzanRAoeH6UmFZylQ1+mLybafoxqYvbrylC58fm+Lo/8cI3 p/qw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757171437; x=1757776237; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=ybXn/0+PkwIzbCScgGJmwXUF+6Wzqlp+f+a+Ji+7Cuk=; b=jhEteTu0aPf/51QFj4fSmGX1F6PqKGllXfJKARWX8ka2u0X825uzxsWzBJtf1AvwaG L3mIz6QghpKPpbDP3YL0PiqocnJFEcHh3gqsaFUkdnwhxLXvrtRwBHVhizCrwnQR/JBC WATazBBmQL27xf/AFILukTGPWgnb8F6vqSJVRAkGF9aC5QDAMuFHJ3QEVHMWuXzpze9L m1yi+qTpMZLxMd1kemLhgtLOzZ7R7GlXcvVLdrzaS0OARmOzl7GeSslIymyZYbORgcvY Dk3rcksuQ8bQoaXn1JQMHwxxKBl60rzQa85P2VgHP1CfYQJALaeC2RQHv64td7aHwbSj ttQw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXzCmujEBj1wGAU9vqN9tVZYixdlq2hUT7B4/dl6LaWN98zQMztHtISyc3gBk7OlU7SOmjHTQ==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyooNP1cC4AfcuO9KNfyMyhXo5ngIkf9HbamTHe6t5N660otu5e 2a+t/4lHFPBuAQJFlJDVRjfybnh4fLmq41H2OtXycUWkJqymH2gBfun6 X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct3p6gNxJO/UuWennt8lMBGdymz7bsw8N+opXkryrixEbwx/sHWpxFXUDeN2xI LsIXe+cBKIHETueSCGVC+G1teUtUrpJxUKPsMq+CaTVCJmXDu9uQvUSY3rRvlm9V2KKZwBF4bm/ d1WCinVQPgXFVmCojwCaAf3DK32zkWWjpIEpRwE7rGRTxqKQdwwirKj9lk3b6YkmRxcjL7BCbJz gDecBVVUSBli26ALHNtfLeAM6NO4Vv1/kCMMxpAD6SfOKaXeotqnwZEfbTQD2XWzSMyRa+ahX06 613EjKEWlso1LzjxLIEntWTBLk6hohGe3Lazp6NGgHqsxMaxd3C8jGUxTnRi4+qCylRzThPjAQy iym3xS2AG4Y3SEdzoPkJIbAc0lh2+WQn6S4n61386JC6lwntJUik5jZS0/lJ2U1/gVHzsoamgcZ XY8RTDacQJ6cAehlpOUMCpD1hSQY7JmFnqQtXvv0FqZGs2 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG7FDyFd/jsYjZWK7q9TgNysnFvEhLhlGv0tVRKdqhT52D3vW2RLr/6Nvc4eBgfdvSDtOGL/A== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3f25:b0:b04:578f:b3fb with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04b140c7f4mr222576866b.17.1757171436791; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 08:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro4.fritz.box (p200300e0b71d620068364106933f9f3e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b71d:6200:6836:4106:933f:9f3e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b04265165e0sm1558193266b.74.2025.09.06.08.10.36 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 Sep 2025 08:10:36 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Payas Relekar Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> <868qirfxk8.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 17:10:35 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , eller.helmut@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Payas Relekar writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> From where I stand, important changes are still being installed and >> discussed. Also, the discussion of whether to fork MPS has died >> without any clear conclusions. Both of these are signs that the >> branch is still not ready to land on master, its stability >> notwithstanding. > > IIRC, the biggest con was having to keep up with upstream, which has > barely changed in years. The whole vendoring discussion began because > Emacs requires patches to MPS that aren't merged upstream because it > moves so slow (or not at all). Should we get a round of votes from > actual maintainers of feature/igc and just be done with this? > Gerd/Helmut WDYT? I don't consider myself a maintainer. In fact I've said right from the start that I don't want to maintain anything again. So I'll leave that to others to answer. >> And if we do decide to land this, we will need motivated individuals >> to react to issues and fix them in a timely manner, and do other >> mundane jobs that always pop up when a significant new feature lands >> on master. > > I'm unequipped to fix issues (I know as much C as our stray cat), but > what kind of mundane jobs are you looking to get help with? If its bug > triage or testing, I'm happy to apply. Eli is right, and I therefore tried to raise the question who is left to do the maintenance, should igc land in master. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 11:30:08 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 15:30:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37073 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuurg-0006Qh-Ah for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 11:30:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48276) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuurb-0006PQ-Tv for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 11:30:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uuurW-0007Xc-He; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 11:29:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=eUw1Ylxh3dYD62+CFzSw2mEj8EjwnjHczatkavPCGGg=; b=VBT4QRXz6BMP JyeYkvSAdZxFwZXP1KGwZsqvuKK9p/NMDcc34TTdtJf7Exw0BiJipD+8i+1e2v/2+OIe1G2+WKxjV 8PqRuw+hMPM0HIG9RZbURJyGc82xiDgt9EzZ4ASB+ql8UGNe709fkDwVFmvHrwWoMaXF862rPftES VB8XF0Le0meP81BOqc2bunLe+mO8uC/NyIKHSBU4AYmtsbOOFhjgRJYwPmurvCb74WEfvF0kOtN/1 0eWoU/bsNqruQC4SzZKAXUZf4lraxGjCHWBrjq5EPQOHKgQsr/2aksgabqKqErFiHCYT6vjIDyoNo BpNLT9N7qABBKZ+yF4xT6w==; Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 18:29:52 +0300 Message-Id: <865xdvfvkf.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Payas Relekar In-Reply-To: <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Payas Relekar on Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:25:47 +0530) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> <868qirfxk8.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Payas Relekar > Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com > Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:25:47 +0530 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > And if we do decide to land this, we will need motivated individuals > > to react to issues and fix them in a timely manner, and do other > > mundane jobs that always pop up when a significant new feature lands > > on master. > > I'm unequipped to fix issues (I know as much C as our stray cat), but > what kind of mundane jobs are you looking to get help with? If its bug > triage or testing, I'm happy to apply. It's impossible to know in advance, but helping with triage and testing is part of that, so thanks for stepping forward. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 14:28:24 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 18:28:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37767 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuxeC-0006qj-30 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 14:28:24 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x534.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::534]:58679) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuxdz-0006qC-Lh for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 14:28:18 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x534.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-6229f5ed47fso1590261a12.1 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 11:28:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757183284; x=1757788084; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=h1If0pFkR3529sv4yhSOPFiUuKuK76npvwKhHT4B9s8=; b=UOA/3mTrVS2BvQAzZQKAWu/4A9oXAoWg8iSRAqvXB9mnNZ7zf+g9xulOWTQXncI2tj zgm/mRYKtjwn3EkRmg/G1fUgT8yWgSPDogV8YmMoHT6O0BClvhO3LYpwZ6RZqISHU2Ir fOTbRO67S3wZJiJAqqU3Xx48t7WyEkgOga2THWCzHxKFOQ3r9cyu6NWNJdXuR+KJSFOm 4xfymmBzx0Db6mK5O8IEaTDhkEOZwtJ/c39sbQ6qiFj1mF80eoUJ/2EHwlAYur8PgfTu kcWfgfk/uWIcfqBl4gvxkYpP9hoSBmUJtUG8yGT3Q8/vylTMzGCc4WUc1pTANlN1PgVB 2Y6Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757183284; x=1757788084; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=h1If0pFkR3529sv4yhSOPFiUuKuK76npvwKhHT4B9s8=; b=ZL0LBszHYNiRVOCRIuYvGE0gQ7RPvHDOVokG74ZyXuldXZJN9CcEeoj2PlBfuAKCjZ hLKClny/H2ANSKrPIUTp5snrH22TsHX8LbEhvylsqC1T8W0EWctmZsat7kVWgam9vBi9 vnPosVxSzxWOMXFUeIiGYI6wfhyKC2NRQc3RoDYqZvzzihlwC5UlFl7SA0OxvMIyx98F 2o33LxbjZ6swTfeWd08wSHN11bhS/E6FrN0xrRHGyXtdxd6yBFoe9nA7V7ej+Ku1WY52 B+GRC95mg0P1w60R+1Q511FoKAytmJcNQuPy7IwaQbt/fZyP3x5RidDrvuoYnkFIvWVh b2ZA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVmPhN47A2I2EzC4YUWihX4hOwPie9aNUjVBy2Jrku2v+XYuT7MU8gBW6H0PqgBW8BDoUMuCQ==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YysEcxb8HtLMZLFzz2De9rtgNxf4tqB/5CW90X8+xt6DFiPiQ4c tIMRfp7oXypXpsi/r3ao2WE5PNzCz08sIV5hCKkV1IUMMRL5A+s9MGqjJyNwqQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncujtFHZzSdJgRgwSPHORtlFfGuF+kqp7TKabNaAviZdEOfCzwSd9CAdCzjPIkw Nu6Kr4JGl9vSg7W3s8z1xi9rXXwm+zL0+zAKb5iieKviG+k1VLw3Z6qpkjH07rx5Io0ofmsynaJ bJSsQxYcohDtv6AD/UxLk3vULFyc8vtyt/C+U2zn0mc1yy/1FZJH+By+pB7iNhNos+5xHfP47uT +u/JPpeB8teFC7P0B9DfzYmfOBB1drprl9CVJZCXDMVKtbqx72aDYnd8IrgRF/n1taDKw+KFv8W XUj/LhdjSzZrDqFR5F5TqAV0Y7D/zT+wkg7JZfJzPnIOWcFqeysweQ4VCeQvsp4CjuF4pOeyJse D1ZsFuXJ/WyKNhZ9OKcWEFEDjod/BywY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGhzp5VQaEvUk5pp0P+fbZ9x85JJgYSWKO5mRp5p/cA7ba+5+tYhl5DXNsXixGrmHAjB+lVwg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:50c9:b0:622:173c:63f6 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-6237bc578b0mr2406923a12.11.1757183284156; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 11:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61d3174074bsm15658754a12.35.2025.09.06.11.28.03 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 Sep 2025 11:28:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <867bychyfj.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87plc6gezg.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1hif11.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lwg7ls.fsf@gmail.com> <867bychyfj.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:28:02 +0200 Message-ID: <87h5xffnbh.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> The patch was not committed, AFAIK. > > I know. I guess I'm asking to please rework it as an optional > feature, instead of an unconditional replacement. Is that possible > and reasonably feasible? Sure: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Call-mps_arena_step-from-a-Lisp-idle-timer.patch >From ff16f072742b5fa6d4c9f91acc2dfa57b1d09589 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Helmut Eller Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2025 20:15:56 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Call mps_arena_step from a Lisp idle timer * src/igc.c (Figc__arena_step): New defun. (syms_of_igc): Register Sigc__arena_step. * lisp/emacs-lisp/igc.el (igc-start-idle-timer): New. (igc--idle-timer, igc--idle-delay, igc--step-interval) (igc--predict-idle-time, igc--on-idle): New code for opportunistic Gc. --- lisp/emacs-lisp/igc.el | 33 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ src/igc.c | 29 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 2 files changed, 62 insertions(+) diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/igc.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/igc.el index de7aae9f4ee..f306db99a93 100644 --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/igc.el +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/igc.el @@ -388,6 +388,39 @@ igc-start-collecting-stats (setq igc--collect-timer (run-at-time nil secs #'igc--collect-stats-sqlite))))) + +;;; Opportunistic GC + +(defvar igc--idle-timer nil + "Idle timer to trigger oppurtunistic GC.") + +(defvar igc--idle-delay 2.0 + "Time, in seconds, to wait for `igc--idle-timer'.") + +(defvar igc--step-interval 0.01 + "Time, in seconds, MPS is allowed to use for one step.") + +(defun igc-start-idle-timer () + "Start a timer to do GC work while Emacs is idle." + (when igc--idle-timer + (cancel-timer igc--idle-timer)) + (setq igc--idle-timer + (run-with-idle-timer igc--idle-delay t #'igc--on-idle))) + +(defun igc--predict-idle-time () + (* igc--idle-delay 0.66)) + +(defun igc--on-idle () + (let* ((available-time (igc--predict-idle-time)) + (interval igc--step-interval) + (multiplier (floor (/ available-time interval)))) + (named-let step ((n multiplier)) + (let* ((work-to-do (igc--arena-step interval n))) + (when (and work-to-do + (> n 0) + (not (accept-process-output nil 0))) + (step (1- n))))))) + (provide 'igc) ;;; igc.el ends here. diff --git a/src/igc.c b/src/igc.c index 7a3961bc7cf..4cd2b8c964b 100644 --- a/src/igc.c +++ b/src/igc.c @@ -5429,6 +5429,34 @@ DEFUN ("igc--remove-extra-dependency", Figc__remove_extra_dependency, return Qt; } +DEFUN ("igc--arena-step", Figc__arena_step, Sigc__arena_step, 2, 2, 0, + doc: /* Do some GC work. + +INTERVAL is the time, in seconds, that MPS is permitted to take. + +MULTIPLIER is the number of further similar calls that the client +program expects to make during this idle period. + +Return t if there was work to do, nil otherwise. */) + (Lisp_Object interval, Lisp_Object multiplier) +{ + /* mps_arena_step does not guarantee to return swiftly. And it seems + that it sometimes does an opportunistic full collection alleging + the client predicted lots of idle time. But it doesn't tell how + it comes to that conclusion. This is caused by bug#79346 in MPS. */ + + /* 1.0 is the lowest possible value for the multiplier argument to + mps_arena_step (bug#76505). */ + + double secs = extract_float (interval); + if (secs < 0.0) + xsignal1 (Qrange_error, interval); + CHECK_FIXNAT (multiplier); + EMACS_INT n = XFIXNAT (multiplier); + bool work_to_do = mps_arena_step (global_igc->arena, secs, n); + return work_to_do ? Qt : Qnil; +} + /*********************************************************************** Init ***********************************************************************/ @@ -5452,6 +5480,7 @@ syms_of_igc (void) defsubr (&Sigc__set_commit_limit); defsubr (&Sigc__add_extra_dependency); defsubr (&Sigc__remove_extra_dependency); + defsubr (&Sigc__arena_step); DEFSYM (Qambig, "ambig"); DEFSYM (Qexact, "exact"); Fprovide (intern_c_string ("mps"), Qnil); -- 2.47.2 --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 14:37:56 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 18:37:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37834 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuxnP-0007Tv-Ib for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 14:37:56 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x634.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::634]:56584) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuxn9-0007TI-ED for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 14:37:46 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x634.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b0449b1b56eso470742466b.1 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 11:37:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757183852; x=1757788652; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=GmD1CKgj4OPDMcqmdIsJmz3DgaKWZ4ZDx3ntUWIBeyM=; b=Lyve+wa1aXxhs4zIjMmCedkLxDpP4w5B1HiOzJswYmwrft1zbypbd1iekDvdlQ44bi aODoFhlDyGmdQtjvXRyUVJYlFFXLuY70CFytbYhvRS5aR+qU+I2fwZR04O+HOpsstvZ9 C2iUj0ukXDLzRPtxa89w3OKTgZexIRYeR4uiqSRpuLzumdLn3yEzcn6u+AKn62C+T8Rz gIvmmHfqv2svUVRyyWCOiQU4qGYb7AXqF+onZ5sz4ylho9Y9DRGMNy6Buj07H2DLhmvG mPxcZs18qrE6nIBejEVB48z+OmwECpofE3z0AObbFMAjhjwgD3J60t3863/SJsIB3oN4 PVOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757183852; x=1757788652; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=GmD1CKgj4OPDMcqmdIsJmz3DgaKWZ4ZDx3ntUWIBeyM=; b=C/KjN+2OW1giepHYt3lDswtlbrNwQFZ2+DangSrzsPEUd9j7ZjGPy+9LxctRXAb4+o scuGlkbhZtWlb863Iq2CzzOCVg/rzL/bg22U22Pwv+Uhci4BzujZyCwxda20LMBD+QgH QMLJsy4NiQrgu/R/naeo3QDwebrASQrLnV3IQ7VQ0ce3yrnWaUYVDHQlqGxPneFDWQ4u OatYHreGq2queUVibroHQsT0eQlB6LrIkov2qA/NvQ7MXTzyJEPlw52/Ee1Keb6AHgVv oSoCGfdJS08sBdr23Vq59D2QfA6tWNkxw2FzqwoqEsSaPTBYCbOkRNazb3OBx7d9Y1TC cG2A== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWOtRIgts6AL+yLsDT30/rjRMuzRWQS7mtRwaFmqZk3Avo/qOEjaXYL229UzSwKpJ4VqFULQw==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz38STW7uJFXIx2Xeu8uqdlfjc9BxBDORGZboe3TZPkNYChFyG5 pUaxUBZfjbbuVntPgZG8aPYZ9nzFBW7FkU2jIUp/JS8Gwh3/qMFmpSaEU42s9Q== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncs9o5Ec1/S7E+N/jZBKMlWbP9P2xMx/8+0eySawyV8R9XMYQRdGBB2MKGmVnJ2 OUiDzcvodQlRfcrgU6Y0pBn7Q6HHoFXYATt6B2XSLSLFJ578n7ZskloaOhr+R0ZNVRl5szBjfMU owsdGhv/YHOMZ9+ry++rR+IsXiNkwHj3FO5JRVxFpoNhuSC38UNwTBbJDguSA/cYhNv9+JmHFH9 vWMTUyND9MC3fL/6oDz9vU8GDLVz2bS0acwHswNR+noqelb9Fksmz0a8yjz+Q62XJMM4wcjqLt3 GEFp7nSzCLA6UNQdIr/o4yHixl36Shv0P+PEx45LmfsA8vDMfNWut9vLJ16qau8hfkjWAkk6nEB utGlrVSiqXY5y8OGrgTqs X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFkvItl1daYdgA3nfjDA8yZge6AWBgxIx9k9Fhk4uyjef0WaopyyjeUupT1G70F3t26/geudw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3c8e:b0:b04:1896:1236 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04b14b75a5mr211331166b.22.1757183852084; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 11:37:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b046f2dda22sm855321866b.40.2025.09.06.11.37.31 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 Sep 2025 11:37:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:37:30 +0200 Message-ID: <878qirfmvp.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> ... but I don't quite see how we should make progress without some >> shared branch. > > Exactly. And another branch in the repository will only muddy the > waters and make landing this on master harder, if not impossible. I concur. > Personally, I will be very sad if this work gets abandoned, but I > cannot do anything when people express feelings like those expressed > above. It's eventually up to those who work on the feature and are > motivated to get it into mainline. I volunteer to maintain the igc branch, if that's any help. Though, I would probably need some mentoring at the beginning. Helmut From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 15:12:18 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 19:12:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38095 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuyKg-0002Oi-6t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 15:12:18 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x534.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::534]:61907) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuyKa-0002Mb-2X for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 15:12:14 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x534.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-6263d0e4b94so707177a12.3 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 12:12:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757185924; x=1757790724; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=8oyIo4uU1Ag6u8d7K252HJUY746Wq+9pBFXxVZyb/xg=; b=YtURNGkhQ6gT+u5RR2/moeI9rqOl9nWRI3YfWExHuxjAJ0f9tCX10Os/xjRZVr96UN Dlg2NgHL/JrLw/xwhl+pz5MUFBOpgu6ABg+F+tbM0ljE4tpYjxZd8bgwuEjG44LcB0fr t9fH+My8DiBcSh1TcT9GI+3lrTFxdh11/Ht3kH864g9Z7ocIYqvbUmHeZ4W1eElMFhZQ gxM1UXgICpBGiGdvV+uTvt3qtmCqehQechO2/ritELEJXl/4G31l+zk75XXp3OwJWmZb 7ASeCUzet0GtFr17+wFcvBwX9EVekiDv4U/+h+DioAO/yYfd2zhN3NUKgynYFZCOsjxW ja1A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757185924; x=1757790724; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=8oyIo4uU1Ag6u8d7K252HJUY746Wq+9pBFXxVZyb/xg=; b=l/Sh2m//0nCk5koPGUGcYuLI2SkhmsjPSU8M/2TpgsKpRklV03iSm+oRGs3OTpXUSn A/YbPvGu5ItxaqlNEr8dbNSIJziqpOxWNAUX7jsO1uYD15ZSxoxMpr73283+n3DbM0ti V+BeemJjKVj++Yvc03Et24JIP6YUHRp0zlZadY8GfKRNuwy/6mTLauyH6Pw1BztEB+lK Y7FWNS2GuCp0MD3aelgDdXS42a5HQXJl3TPUQ0yEu02QZAY5uirjZ8yZfLLeory/AZEz E/0nupgXVmhmuCSIHBu7je0KopmZWCc5B58ZXAX5gvXjA9vD1DBeGpWGQ/9qLQX4NWvj o7+A== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWFoxXao7UEJ4GDfBl0Wh03aB6WAI1PtE77j1HOLH8ZumDHlVREVmZ8bBJ11LB2JaSCV1/MnA==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxtt8Csio3Z2GSdmdgOFBQ/xorw4kRmCFWfp2FCY2RlgkF2iUJV cg8CVuUN+biHU/FK8tPCAsLRF/8u9wqhNDldYJ5CR6nMHZ3mi2WTd+sTl5kLLg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsdBePA1xt8rjJGed+0DKT89GO7wjYZE7Bwyx9/RKL9yGzPrx1DRkx063dkoF5 QV9IJq7imV/siog/ML3Blyoa0cFEOSvWaVf8Q2BIMyQllREp4C4MBSw5APszQj96GEldYk/Eo0n VR9g6/AaDWD2zOs4qditJiC8N8Ui/VziKt2LVSdkFvzh/Wwbg8Lkpd5CN/5SJBf9QuVHthh3x01 pgzl0xOU0cx6/DTUgUDtp0igFcIM6eoxy/CIphRA2dPzD02z/fx//zcWS9E7s/F0EN6gIQylUyP bxDwQKZkFymjuA0WhY3A+c/92kAav4teVPq25SpIfp/Pi9QeDSg5Cw/0ApegmRxIHODKq5tyVh/ YV+RzyI7ceXMZabuZaHqz X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGaMA92eGuZ7/V9UUiT9UwP2+2D69W8fVqpMJf89l3efv4ZAGn806G3q2A/S4Yu/Y+5QXbJyw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:6094:b0:b04:6cf7:75cd with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04b16d7900mr281905866b.54.1757185924367; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 12:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-aff0681aefdsm2087791966b.8.2025.09.06.12.12.03 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 Sep 2025 12:12:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Payas Relekar Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> <868qirfxk8.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:12:03 +0200 Message-ID: <87v7lve6po.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Payas Relekar wrote: [...] > IIRC, the biggest con was having to keep up with upstream, which has > barely changed in years. The whole vendoring discussion began because > Emacs requires patches to MPS that aren't merged upstream because it > moves so slow (or not at all). Should we get a round of votes from > actual maintainers of feature/igc and just be done with this? > Gerd/Helmut WDYT? I would create a fork on GitHub and tell people that they should fetch MPS from there. Helmut From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 15:20:34 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 19:20:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38168 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuySe-0003as-57 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 15:20:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40900) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuySP-0003WW-34 for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 15:20:24 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uuyS9-0008Fz-Vi; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 15:20:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=5J8oKMc1FjJCgE6J6YrM8MLi8zwxWWP4p2l5b/6T2LU=; b=N5umTNj9CT1G ICKVrrfIUC+85mR36CGZWcwcN2lTISAVBtbXlsBiclmE+wr5XaascNvRY1UhHHNgo+XlMJeiVG3K2 Kr1hD31dXbchnxh/4RhFk0eQKV+Ui10qoUEl9Yi0E6wTSAjkUevqeZX+N9WKTG+Kv4eTbTJJJIYLN IZxc+br5cdRzaMp6DCQBkAg+IhlfgRu80NEYr1IJL5LEZ0xXAtXXEUyRz8BAh/dbGBMXNq0ryJ48d d4NBi2587PP3vsIFkk+8X8UWzBEShA8ahG3DhIB3NhqINVhe94AgrBGZxyWWLge4ndxde26OEBOaB BOpSAH1O9XW93Shm2ek5Yw==; Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 22:19:58 +0300 Message-Id: <86tt1fe6ch.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <878qirfmvp.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:37:30 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <878qirfmvp.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:37:30 +0200 > > On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> ... but I don't quite see how we should make progress without some > >> shared branch. > > > > Exactly. And another branch in the repository will only muddy the > > waters and make landing this on master harder, if not impossible. > > I concur. > > > Personally, I will be very sad if this work gets abandoned, but I > > cannot do anything when people express feelings like those expressed > > above. It's eventually up to those who work on the feature and are > > motivated to get it into mainline. > > I volunteer to maintain the igc branch, if that's any help. Though, I > would probably need some mentoring at the beginning. Thanks! Don't hesitate to ask any questions you might have. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 15:23:32 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 19:23:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38192 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuyVU-0003zM-EK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 15:23:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57802) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuyVN-0003xf-Vu for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 15:23:22 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uuyVG-0000Ph-5o; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 15:23:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ZxPTIWc0UKe3gsCc2XW0b2FvTt6YoY5Kd6ay7hvVUdo=; b=g3PsgSfth9Wt Gv8uOOHMBl4MdIJPHlcBcI7UbUBs6n79j2AoTxkIIttxpTztZHtuz8duhuRR5tShBK4L1Yt2scssP M5+KfIw3B/J/+QHL7ejZ8HMaW94sNs1qKgmHMuuCG/k/2waJcPI5nk4vX0wHYphaWkq4jqyo3xQsK t/IqgIAcWRc0nb0X8I2CZLgfcJx7R2k018NWdaT3O+ARet7bk62+Gyv5LKCv5kD5dAuFQfJfErkka 84E9mSz2DTsiNGLr7OMnNQLbRvmY0ywCDVD5DPA/5ojzv8FP0OGf175xYf/839k0hwLJWwGOVj+1+ QCcxOvlo4YHYgE3mkSGFkA==; Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 22:23:11 +0300 Message-Id: <86segze674.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <87v7lve6po.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:12:03 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> <868qirfxk8.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> <87v7lve6po.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, relekarpayas@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, > 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:12:03 +0200 > > On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Payas Relekar wrote: > > [...] > > IIRC, the biggest con was having to keep up with upstream, which has > > barely changed in years. The whole vendoring discussion began because > > Emacs requires patches to MPS that aren't merged upstream because it > > moves so slow (or not at all). Should we get a round of votes from > > actual maintainers of feature/igc and just be done with this? > > Gerd/Helmut WDYT? > > I would create a fork on GitHub and tell people that they should fetch > MPS from there. If this fork will be maintained by the Emacs project, then having the fork as part of emacs.git would be easier on us, both from the POV of installing changes, and from the POV of integration into the Emacs build procedure. What are the advantages of having the fork in GitHub, rather than in our repository? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 15:35:45 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 19:35:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38308 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuyhL-0005lg-UP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 15:35:45 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x62d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62d]:44360) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uuyhA-0005iz-4I for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 15:35:38 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b02c719a117so576343666b.1 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 12:35:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757187324; x=1757792124; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wwgRQWaa6lfhsN777oxUKyxLXJi+R+TP4vFtbchg+3g=; b=lWNhm+QXM9YXe5VtTwE38q2mD+9NhJf9Hv13VYQBeM2FDUKECQjAb7BpzjdKtCii7M ZF41cM1yRi7BZAVQmIh3h3/iPM84EmdH8V86u8Iu3/eP5xqscXSc7UfIrlRSrW0GLHEt IuGCGIPtr4dqPAaEF5vgvboDWb6/VTELa/DxN1LXas8gm2MF7aXiBzRTwyNndm3JMt1T g1xF8FYx8+JTlPIk21f1mTm2FFiYSVzqGISXzbGR3MhfDMII+ALuppRrwlskkqiOj0Sr fjhu6p4zgjsP9rur5dXnrmDHPnjcqp3SNf9fzDHBvU29wr07CWhCilegoAsOuM0C2Y5o Y6Eg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757187324; x=1757792124; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=wwgRQWaa6lfhsN777oxUKyxLXJi+R+TP4vFtbchg+3g=; b=mEMF2OmIpSiJhCjOgxdecUtLQI/hij1fAFO6hpasiI32v6bPvYOBqw5sQwTEfquRfX vngP13Rs291LkXEmz0FLBHRFi3Ykt/KssY5yI/y7SI4lsh0ZIchzXeyF6LNDEW9/LHr6 CI9bgt67ejTAjXPTpJV8GoQIX5CjVTl1DSZSDjHID1zD+FC/P1sCeoERxe7nlPe8msBC jWCc+iHuDsRfOBbieke+qfN41yvz42yipEemjjsG4OFnKxBtHoOHkc1Gopt0bQmVu7pf YngLIgQo3Gsao5aWPXZ/4f0jN9NUQo6WkqhrSV21tTbvXrVs71+S+tuS203OGX47VNwI cQ6A== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWBMRh3fYXDpYntkv3P9wR1nTWsnTHllm0agKY82RDfQJKb073bxWqJe4zDSkS479XQ21d9nQ==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyj8SwZin7DXzxsf3t7Slrg1RI8AaSjEMnUX1Thk6EzhXrNNVI6 obkZdgf0dZCobav8J59qra7Vf+698wZKuy+jDsiehn0JcrYCzIjdpFPnR2qR0Q== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctGYYlc++4+VElqaSZsyxRO1NFdpatTpRZitK4BYyXxtqzdabVG/zxjB7vIwRs nlTdFBJmd65ELCbqGfWfEDdAtuiFLch9foYc/zuNrhJtrzMno2d+fxqWiDUyklhbELayIRmW5rm Iyhk5skmjBPw7FCxp5v+XzfojRzfxAAnJ7g3ttD1+aamkCexFLqXCcEbSVZuF28YIJOPbsX1Ya8 YdveEruq26pOMG6whVcSxW7jH96VadvkhuZpBp0wD4/D3ivQZp0WhxzWDJgu2jCTBZ5bNcn56/x ucLaioRCtWKhlcpRRnk+zlrT1s64XbrjjBVnM1FB8RghZQemj1oFvXnm8GS+0z7xp/AsDfLv+TN wic+l9pzU10J3n1FaVECe X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFKmS9gnMFyyTx1+iiKBXu3kdUtmpRr8ZJsi4zQ6/E4ltVlOeRrM4bpPeD7BWyGNrZp5R99ow== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:7ea3:b0:afe:8b53:449c with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04b1687e42mr223834866b.34.1757187324225; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 12:35:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b046aa92242sm895456466b.59.2025.09.06.12.35.23 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 Sep 2025 12:35:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86segze674.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> <868qirfxk8.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> <87v7lve6po.fsf@gmail.com> <86segze674.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:35:23 +0200 Message-ID: <87ldmre5ms.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, relekarpayas@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Helmut Eller >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, >> 79346@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:12:03 +0200 >> >> On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Payas Relekar wrote: >> >> [...] >> > IIRC, the biggest con was having to keep up with upstream, which has >> > barely changed in years. The whole vendoring discussion began because >> > Emacs requires patches to MPS that aren't merged upstream because it >> > moves so slow (or not at all). Should we get a round of votes from >> > actual maintainers of feature/igc and just be done with this? >> > Gerd/Helmut WDYT? >> >> I would create a fork on GitHub and tell people that they should fetch >> MPS from there. > > If this fork will be maintained by the Emacs project, then having the > fork as part of emacs.git would be easier on us, both from the POV of > installing changes, and from the POV of integration into the Emacs > build procedure. > > What are the advantages of having the fork in GitHub, rather than in > our repository? It would be essentially the same as what we have now; so I think it's less work to set up. I suppose it would also be easier to keep the commit histories separate. Helmut From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 18:07:29 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 22:07:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39506 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv14C-0001yt-Gz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 18:07:28 -0400 Received: from out-187.mta1.migadu.com ([95.215.58.187]:39698) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv141-0001xr-1T for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 18:07:24 -0400 X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jeremybryant.net; s=key1; t=1757196430; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=AtcLl3JKn3bbh83DKZEoKpKHSKu/XY9uz9U4wDj5KRg=; b=s96EbUMsq0tsPGvTcvo0OkQeHuaZUVk6m4XJO7K/MWKZsdLEM8hSDKjyvu1VWXJdsgb6Mh llWt7dOSbfj6rqjAKLCwS6m1/RIiSnHA7GnM6NPS4qRMUg7D/q51g2UkEL39r86H/5SsVD IGVUQE4MNkHgBLpmTMN0tE0r6mLcfScmxEIJUjku6tIc9tV2/AZIqOfk2uqQBsLLypoJEV ZzJRcEpAFHP3pRPL93GpCupkc4a+u4NLdPboMC3LPviiMN6/krtRgNFJk8mCw9A56E4DVD YszE1rS/T8O673RNSuZr90WUpYEkkN2Y0Q8f9br4pneDGUYA2m9lYWdKrj87gQ== From: Jeremy Bryant To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86tt1fe6ch.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 06 Sep 2025 22:19:58 +0300") References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <878qirfmvp.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1fe6ch.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 23:07:07 +0100 Message-ID: <87zfb7me0k.fsf@jeremybryant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, Helmut Eller X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Helmut Eller >> Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:37:30 +0200 >> >> On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> >> ... but I don't quite see how we should make progress without some >> >> shared branch. >> > >> > Exactly. And another branch in the repository will only muddy the >> > waters and make landing this on master harder, if not impossible. >> >> I concur. >> >> > Personally, I will be very sad if this work gets abandoned, but I >> > cannot do anything when people express feelings like those expressed >> > above. It's eventually up to those who work on the feature and are >> > motivated to get it into mainline. >> >> I volunteer to maintain the igc branch, if that's any help. Though, I >> would probably need some mentoring at the beginning. > > Thanks! Don't hesitate to ask any questions you might have. Thanks Helmut for volunteering to maintain the igc branch. I am also happy to volunteer continuing helping with some of the documentation aspects, which could be a small help. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 18:15:27 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 22:15:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39551 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv1Bu-0002Ye-Kb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 18:15:27 -0400 Received: from out-185.mta0.migadu.com ([91.218.175.185]:21170) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv1Bh-0002RQ-Bh for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 18:15:20 -0400 X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jeremybryant.net; s=key1; t=1757196905; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=cTp9FjhFZHR3A7HRZj97fErP6HtMLEdmMelY/qMqkj4=; b=t1LOn5NYb0446Y4NRCPR8K+rbXqumGadVP/D1Sd/DGfQEw4CP6hV1RE6YJ7sacDgMtnfEE 1EROs8spslLjy6/dMmpekuQkR5++J/1Eu9eZgHdI21Jo5HgDpFC7c95EflyL1PISPR/o4G DTW5sRJrSHHujReGoKjEi9ymj7YIEo5Ix5PFKRipFD+u4ZYRhcAuPmFyNlN2PTB18l5//E PYAytHNydgliDHaExuMjMdkQ1Qe/g7xBpwsSTURVasq1fCGdNHLTn5CvUResg4AG0I6VE0 lr9W++hVPT5fkG/5pLewaeOAhWVTsw09R0dsTAl7QoenTQX2jPYbEiaaIJMStg== From: Jeremy Bryant To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: ("Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann=22'?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= message of "Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:48:34 +0200") References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <861pokhxxi.fsf@gnu.org> <86qzwkgh59.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 23:15:03 +0100 Message-ID: <87ikhvmdnc.fsf@jeremybryant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , eller.helmut@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Gerd M=C3=B6llmann writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > SW>> From: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann >>> Cc: eller.helmut@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org >>> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:02:21 +0200 >>>=20 >>> Eli Zaretskii writes: >>>=20 >>> >> From: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann >>> >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org >>> >> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2025 20:05:26 +0200 >>> >>=20 >>> >> I've branched a new scratch/igc2 from feature/igc for more "freestyl= e" >>> >> changes. >>> > >>> > Will someone merge from that branch to feature/igc? Or is this a >>> > completely independent effort? >>> > >>> > IOW, what is the intended use of this new branch, and how, if at all >>> > will it fit into the work on adding igc to Emacs? >>> > >>> > For example, if I have an igc-related change to install, on which of >>> > the two branches should I do that? >>>=20 >>> ATM, it's thought of a place where one can experiment with things >>> without being faced with bureaucratic hurdles, so to speak. Depends on >>> whether Helmut finds that useful, otherwise I'd delete it again. >> >> What "bureaucratic hurdles" are those? > > A feature branch has some rules to follow, I'd guess.=20 > >> >> Also, does this mean this branch is only for Helmut (and maybe >> yourself) to use, and others should not push anything there without >> talking to you first? > > Yes. > >> And my question about merges still stands, in case this branch will >> get some changes. > > No automatic merges from there to feature/igc.=20 Several people (myself included) have reported using feature/igc on a regular basis. Now that Helmut has stepped up to maintain feature/igc, perhaps the occasional scratch/igc2 type experiment could help with Gerd/Helmut working on niche aspects. This can then be merged into feature/igc by Helmut. This could be a compromise to work out some of the edge cases. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 18:24:30 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 22:24:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39578 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv1Kc-0002w0-7U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 18:24:30 -0400 Received: from out-178.mta1.migadu.com ([95.215.58.178]:31244) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv1KO-0002vV-Br for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 18:24:19 -0400 X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jeremybryant.net; s=key1; t=1757197444; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=zI2tlTgkZvcUYvGP5NlDjTQbDgcUwFwh8o0CHUfW5mQ=; b=oIJizURqCpMJV81fYGiwH/gCqfGhPvx2B4/MWtYYxKT2Rm1uvTvPMGvRs04cPwG0YfW4pv ABUaqL7eyiVMBsqhcQgVFtaDaP0N0xF8Xvb0GAukBfAMYFI4Gn96u7xC0nqpuXYDVIL90f J2EP/SWuN12oac1IqJTjx+TrCpATZ+ievLzeaIc7i7vpDjT7EknJ6RlwuEKxcmMXyoKnL0 c5YLivedyuRcDw1OR05Cm2X+d6MRYkYJQSj/ZMkBuSRCruul15tvTK+DJ2mq6aBO6DjY6Q dy4AC0mLokC6lZdtAUVOEVMNF+4fxDrnVYWWBgTrOUbOCCjkgykGjgFn/xc3Gw== From: Jeremy Bryant To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: ("Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann=22'?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= message of "Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:40:38 +0200") References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 23:24:00 +0100 Message-ID: <87cy83md8f.fsf@jeremybryant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Helmut Eller , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Gerd M=C3=B6llmann writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> From: Helmut Eller >> Personally, I will be very sad if this work gets abandoned, but I >> cannot do anything when people express feelings like those expressed >> above. It's eventually up to those who work on the feature and are >> motivated to get it into mainline. > > From what I see in git, as a bystander, either more or less everyone > involved has lost interest, or it's considered stable, and there's not Sometimes it's 'dartkest before dawn'. Recently only some weeks ago there was a question of the 'roadmap' for Emac= s 31. ISTR that IGC was included on it. > much more to do. Or a mixture of that. Considering that I haven't heard > of Stefan Kangas and Andrea for quite some time after initial > "enthusiasm", I think that at least these two have lost interest. Perhaps Stefan and Andrea are busy. I recall that Andrea eventually reverted in support. I believe Stefan hasn't responded, so in particular also hasn't rejected th= e idea. Previously RMS provided encouragement that a fork, if considered practical, would be a good idea. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 18:29:32 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2025 22:29:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39587 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv1PX-0003A4-TH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 18:29:32 -0400 Received: from out-183.mta0.migadu.com ([91.218.175.183]:51058) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv1PS-00039f-Uk for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 18:29:28 -0400 X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jeremybryant.net; s=key1; t=1757197760; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ZIwAIdhJeQ5SIx60vOXXgEVkZTxkfX40GahOMhTP8DI=; b=VRqwzp6avOyQNWFWcTCXsYmMfyHosAgx3dEuC+eKfQDNLpTPaR36xwYSx4Gru/KvQkpH4G dP4QNSIFcQVEU1Ku+L26uJgvDexn5c9j7OR3B5rFJYcbryDW9BgkSS3HzW47IlD4bbaZOJ w0SLU0CAzvNsfBW8u8RqXGNdR9xeRcPAxSsUARhJDAStHtJOw81d97e/PUiVjSaVmxABom yrvUCJizMhjHwDAzeYuOtJzJMq8Kx1zSjAwz8DVpK7XqMC78QLHY3pBvGP8B8AB/8WbGYz XRIx/TQN20haapME1niCPTFgSqXCATJm1oIrBozLhOhpenOujnzo/Vmn6B3D1w== From: Jeremy Bryant To: Helmut Eller Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <87ldmre5ms.fsf@gmail.com> (Helmut Eller's message of "Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:35:23 +0200") References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> <868qirfxk8.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> <87v7lve6po.fsf@gmail.com> <86segze674.fsf@gnu.org> <87ldmre5ms.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 23:29:17 +0100 Message-ID: <877bybmczm.fsf@jeremybryant.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, Eli Zaretskii , relekarpayas@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Helmut Eller writes: > On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >>> From: Helmut Eller >>> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, >>> 79346@debbugs.gnu.org >>> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:12:03 +0200 >>> >>> On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Payas Relekar wrote: >>> >>> [...] >>> > IIRC, the biggest con was having to keep up with upstream, which has >>> > barely changed in years. The whole vendoring discussion began because >>> > Emacs requires patches to MPS that aren't merged upstream because it >>> > moves so slow (or not at all). Should we get a round of votes from >>> > actual maintainers of feature/igc and just be done with this? >>> > Gerd/Helmut WDYT? >>> >>> I would create a fork on GitHub and tell people that they should fetch >>> MPS from there. >> >> If this fork will be maintained by the Emacs project, then having the >> fork as part of emacs.git would be easier on us, both from the POV of >> installing changes, and from the POV of integration into the Emacs >> build procedure. >> >> What are the advantages of having the fork in GitHub, rather than in >> our repository? > > It would be essentially the same as what we have now; so I think it's > less work to set up. I suppose it would also be easier to keep the > commit histories separate. > > Helmut Helmut, as you have volunteered to maintain feature/igc, how about the next logical step of maintaining a fork of MPS within feature/igc? Earlier this year there were several threads on the benefits of keeping MPS in the Emacs tree. A key one being the ease of installation for users of Emacs IGC, among several others. Again I would be interested in contributing somewhat towards this, starting with the documentation. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 06 23:20:50 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 03:20:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40575 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv5xR-0001pz-Ka for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 23:20:49 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x62f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62f]:57676) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv5xN-0001pl-2S for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 23:20:46 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b0418f6fc27so551201766b.3 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:20:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757215238; x=1757820038; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=rxJ5ULwG+gsNsozbBD+ttawYxkb0WRZ62i4dz26e3MU=; b=jDm3xsrtekB1D+k6TNuKT0CpAcOWIxOOD1FmHzUAutCqoGZlWKtLBXqaZyiUQkyhH5 NlbSJ+DVEarrTzWTkit4bZgmGn2Q+98iYFXeDld8z/pmLHCYv0svchWAa7lfAnq54xWs vdNrRcrV9zKn4sPyqNlbzzm25Qj605GFQ5H7nL++g8Ssst5BpFoDdvcbyC18rs/sYoeo 18rB7YqyNP9eiNLgKY7W21QLDj2AmO63pHTMlleUSOC2kMDeVZoZZegp7K/aHpYxf5z5 DgdevB06G1fjcvrhKJ6mHOvvCL7bWGWFvqFRjDgjardd9Y8YC9ydNGh0jGogMpAnvsBQ Ho+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757215238; x=1757820038; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=rxJ5ULwG+gsNsozbBD+ttawYxkb0WRZ62i4dz26e3MU=; b=a3JsxvNCFlb+sYo1SPcOgqPU6Pw9c0rHvWVITv+GkHWcUd1ZBJ9YhZ5gTCW2dgvoD7 Wvu7tzq+bvi3A796LfX9zONS4wN99ljYDTByfoEoQybCkBopIJzwctv6l4gyRDToB4VQ /6q/0iC22fnWAw655mBtfpIXnG9lcFrBkizO+m4TbpDA6VPZy6rPuTbEH53N3oBW99j/ Uoy1zJWgwWWSSQReFZwX0ycqjtPxi7EhBqdeYnx4ZpU+JL+jLG566JvqJJROD/X4RBaK B6nbZ+tCtt47vleeUtO9VxH9f8//eD2fUakqO36cR/7ldenq5EGsWptQIz7x+Rn/dYru H9NA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWHAS0pIPBN4UNLug+KQqS6Ts3jpEXfGc78q6WVWLiyOiq9hN7Ow2w5Nvoouebg7Om3tjah9Q==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwEsAUglCv7y4dTbjUGdQ0WP/zHpOkj+acoq1Vnc2T6E9h+iwj7 9h+VlAJdo6VeKs/V9pPaYcUPvNtVf5Pyw0Tln/wdh3Z9nEEBiHWAuE/C X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncu4pnAGF92eA1XVBiu2pRwVXEeK2zsFWxJ2HzWuZys6ODmTESXOvdSlS+z9/x7 Y3qpgeXtWmnCH040RJGgYrfBo9fKFwOSo3VWNkTZh4XFyZWuFlu3m+yIZWC2YFPl81pJm/3h92P RQHhKjQvG0J4SQgOoqgs4VlL+zouVYxR7khw5i1wGmsSnKwjXDz2jJR6U9Ww8tsjqonv4VMOPCr S1PPkcnsz4N9r/ZjxfrlIkzgTUqtDccMUTm4AD1w8mx2LPaB7Fr5FM/bQrhQVHFPmkb0mh7acct seZw1M1JEDoq5sQYYaxl/z+6mHnyLrHcjWi6mg1CoeU0nW8InmrlqHuEk7w7JpjvETYtWgfqNqq x3PiPpZT8rIZnOPaYTOYxAx81+yH0IT6JrBswYzA5TXLjKfrYjY6YNMZ5t2LqeyaeatyuhutvkG TnLUeECVcQx1ah/DcZrg8Cu/1EfpGlz+aPQoC/LEFWvGPsbrIn5qBWp4XM6iL0GG/D X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHah416krTkg4k4l6smZNqFOEsroZsDm6+UgXTkas9hL4Siia1EZ6fmiKIA8g03Bk7GqSRoDw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:72d2:b0:b04:24b1:83ed with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04b14e274amr398633566b.27.1757215238281; Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro4.fritz.box (p200300e0b724ff00f05906ba3bddd576.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b724:ff00:f059:6ba:3bdd:d576]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b01af44a01fsm1877426866b.23.2025.09.06.20.20.36 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:20:36 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Jeremy Bryant Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <87ikhvmdnc.fsf@jeremybryant.net> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <861pokhxxi.fsf@gnu.org> <86qzwkgh59.fsf@gnu.org> <87ikhvmdnc.fsf@jeremybryant.net> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 05:20:36 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , eller.helmut@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Jeremy Bryant writes: > Now that Helmut has stepped up to maintain feature/igc, perhaps the > occasional scratch/igc2 type experiment could help with Gerd/Helmut > working on niche aspects. I've deleted scratch/igc2 for now. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 00:44:56 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 04:44:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41047 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv7Gp-0006ig-Jz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 00:44:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52618) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv7Gl-0006iG-7x for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 00:44:52 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uv7Ge-000732-F6; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 00:44:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=j9Y2Db/BrZUrYI8VY99ylPrVqC+rARHsg4u/lMPbIwg=; b=LNz0nXTJrAr5 6167TKEjErdtDdpy61KPNic4LjDJnqq0DvsqYjXHPCF0ul5bE+xe/9kHyHfz3/BGqanZTQUJzCrXr HS70p8LRRxVW3FYPJzKT2LQ6QtuS7AD6Ns9jzRw4O31cM44qOxArF+Y2EfuVkIvNC+NmnIaMj4YZI SP3LWCVTZjwJMoCxBp2WPBjKCy+WRtnNjZ5rrHLM5vqsz3S03o5vZgbJGapoxbsBspZk5SntG8p/o RtIdo9tcyNwIzOon8tQ8Wf8cKBKt9ARmY295baQ4BCm6itmd5EzFcyQ1Agx2LMmt8oYMHz3L3eD4K o3Gl+5j7bWGeZgMD+3OM7A==; Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:44:39 +0300 Message-Id: <86qzwieurs.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <87ldmre5ms.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:35:23 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> <868qirfxk8.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> <87v7lve6po.fsf@gmail.com> <86segze674.fsf@gnu.org> <87ldmre5ms.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, relekarpayas@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Cc: relekarpayas@gmail.com, gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:35:23 +0200 > > On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> From: Helmut Eller > >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, > >> 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:12:03 +0200 > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Payas Relekar wrote: > >> > >> [...] > >> > IIRC, the biggest con was having to keep up with upstream, which has > >> > barely changed in years. The whole vendoring discussion began because > >> > Emacs requires patches to MPS that aren't merged upstream because it > >> > moves so slow (or not at all). Should we get a round of votes from > >> > actual maintainers of feature/igc and just be done with this? > >> > Gerd/Helmut WDYT? > >> > >> I would create a fork on GitHub and tell people that they should fetch > >> MPS from there. > > > > If this fork will be maintained by the Emacs project, then having the > > fork as part of emacs.git would be easier on us, both from the POV of > > installing changes, and from the POV of integration into the Emacs > > build procedure. > > > > What are the advantages of having the fork in GitHub, rather than in > > our repository? > > It would be essentially the same as what we have now; so I think it's > less work to set up. I suppose it would also be easier to keep the > commit histories separate. I think the ease of handling sources in a single repository outweighs these advantages, as it also makes building Emacs and producing release tarballs much easier. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 00:47:50 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 04:47:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41077 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv7Jd-0006zZ-Up for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 00:47:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49988) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv7JZ-0006zD-Ew for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 00:47:46 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uv7JQ-0007J9-Ar; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 00:47:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=87/1p6vaK3Hb2kvG6pwlXUp6s0zHE4d+spxAO0vnoYU=; b=XBJsZhpJVgje 4dbNhoqz955cSum6fGCj2N/I6SoJqw/JbtHI0XZQXCEtluztNIfojM+5Tkhuu/IHVLv2NhdVHdLts AHrxE2tqXACRjfyEXv3yBumrr2W2nlrw+Yd8HFIwf0+wxFKGv0YSBLc62wo0D7C0ioz/JB6Gh1RlT HGchha+fL2Qu06SyMGEQzJb4Y8Sgkoji4qOaKl/9AP8zSLSQ96UH2D0cP50hecPJRnEvdJxQ25bOW 07ffrSmCVoRthVexypOlOF5VNZ/8GjR2t1YpGErGzVwzVVD2ndFzsNO832PXoYtcFF7Qh1unWrL7d h0vUZMYexae3SymAaI/WgA==; Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:47:30 +0300 Message-Id: <86plc2eun1.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jeremy Bryant In-Reply-To: <87zfb7me0k.fsf@jeremybryant.net> (message from Jeremy Bryant on Sat, 06 Sep 2025 23:07:07 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <878qirfmvp.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1fe6ch.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfb7me0k.fsf@jeremybryant.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Jeremy Bryant > Cc: Helmut Eller , gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, > 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 23:07:07 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> From: Helmut Eller > >> Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:37:30 +0200 > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> > >> >> ... but I don't quite see how we should make progress without some > >> >> shared branch. > >> > > >> > Exactly. And another branch in the repository will only muddy the > >> > waters and make landing this on master harder, if not impossible. > >> > >> I concur. > >> > >> > Personally, I will be very sad if this work gets abandoned, but I > >> > cannot do anything when people express feelings like those expressed > >> > above. It's eventually up to those who work on the feature and are > >> > motivated to get it into mainline. > >> > >> I volunteer to maintain the igc branch, if that's any help. Though, I > >> would probably need some mentoring at the beginning. > > > > Thanks! Don't hesitate to ask any questions you might have. > > Thanks Helmut for volunteering to maintain the igc branch. > > I am also happy to volunteer continuing helping with some of the > documentation aspects, which could be a small help. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 03:33:00 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 07:33:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41719 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv9tU-0007un-BC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 03:33:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34098) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv9tR-0007uJ-4a for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 03:32:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uv9tK-0006vH-6Z; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 03:32:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=WiNHcX6Xw20GkdZ8gLbdZP9Bf44CODf20614XpRA3S0=; b=m9jUaDStBr4d LMISgPeKK3Y0V56bcMcZ3iQY/ZNhXKCPPfyz7k7GRUaocASumG86sNklli14If8JKDzVbXQrhiAcY 6PQ9H7azszNU2nbvHvMdqUPvb7+TIVE5OzuRKVusjc1IsZSND0+cpEnYyxjowd69LKM/fl4qny7nY MGUFbnK6vhcxFaqxqUTCL7ooO0LwYyc4ND6jIlOUoEwajjBnqsmOqbJHB4wIeQCFYDqGv+jEUl0OY 7M3gCsBulzvhPhBf8+S19UaeVSyuhpyZ0FkTlX9va8HzQDW7iwVNU3Xdx9l1m02JxvBukKbUqNsBw nnb1dEdgXawtyhM4udLJtQ==; Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 10:32:46 +0300 Message-Id: <86ldmqemzl.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <87h5xffnbh.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:28:02 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87plc6gezg.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1hif11.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lwg7ls.fsf@gmail.com> <867bychyfj.fsf@gnu.org> <87h5xffnbh.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 20:28:02 +0200 > > On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> The patch was not committed, AFAIK. > > > > I know. I guess I'm asking to please rework it as an optional > > feature, instead of an unconditional replacement. Is that possible > > and reasonably feasible? > > Sure: Thanks, this looks fine to me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 03:39:36 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 07:39:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41753 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv9zr-0008HK-JB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 03:39:35 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x62c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62c]:59703) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uv9zm-0008Gj-SB for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 03:39:32 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04163fe08dso590208166b.3 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 00:39:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757230764; x=1757835564; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=L5KDUrZdsUYQJnPlOxAN2KdAedbnl4rMAn2FpFJ6Z6k=; b=QVnJn4Yj8d9YOMacpfM1ZEN5PmecrJd7zOFo1s7WnaVqDeK6gqXvozJCQVHB2vK+1a WCrRHCuSnbHKHyaUXVHfnXscEG3SmTg+FLRe5UzSwPOh1VJvlZhnO5lR0IwrCjI7dde6 64TM4nK1BMUynm2E92K54+WFKwSfjmLRYfH+xKexmRGMFwzCujvfXNUCROHWHyoQtG8H v/AzAe2m6AfjeUaOiKKLo2jB4K7Bndw06qJvYE7F8xyWt8r9v6ngjg/+LTO0wUj1Eudc KIYpiQ8eqZNzxKmfeChr59BR5evtZgFlW5yA44TRM5LVOUtyrrlsTBciFRA1YVzaNyDy mKag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757230764; x=1757835564; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=L5KDUrZdsUYQJnPlOxAN2KdAedbnl4rMAn2FpFJ6Z6k=; b=DkqC+GZDX/Ef9d+q30odsjQS+2fYKar2pDRO3By49YcH94UOnaA8LsJ17I3w5Ao4SC hYnX8GYBolCP0ml2c0vrvuPCuJjX8EaIiWrPtQfOhSUCKGulemfsg8wYM6gbE5zTLc9V mIkBStpHfbb0CbqhN0m2oVjvghtYRg8IOrd1gHpjlStcD/5y495sgBVKxb1IlE4W7ueE vSludBNE8jkgBEctTi66GiveFCt7MQDmNcP2YmdeCgCQtNIe63dVxpS2VEcG8ITpUnB8 CmiIV1Mi+/rprrhoEtAQ1sT6OFN3yzFwaIVETvqNretbHANxuWe0dlpNxIyO4mRvT2Nt 8cJw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWRI8jKzfeLokbwT1/tWx22+8JPnzN5KhCiHblGuyzgKLKxFrVWs9ArtcifPn/9PVzyFbVE8g==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwG9uvjYR5MO2CbYAQJO58kyJJsVqm9apYvPLFL+2LB0wDBfpEU pLzy4rBTVspYDOwbS6l7WxFeuf+gPI6dhpAbjZMl3ivxDQW1vtBxUREG X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsBIUM2E2x74zd7dRg8L4N/xcRjC/mp7GAS04FEJDsVCgb9wiQlr1Uu5ZzTILF tv5lqyrBcAFKka9o95qmPUd3C3Df8Z7r8vtqetOGyiGYHZ91tjBDiBbwG4GRCQf8D9m10YEmPL5 os9p93ml/6x7njvxa9oeGsyUopgRzicKQ1nJcZcVe4Qb/kuu/CBdBwV+LXtLvAW39B+PFxJNZEC VekWUAsKyNwvCM4kmS83BtyziL6WF4p9TKYTaOC3knfa0uT4bXxEFQHyBEEJ31rAcesyYDqbXNB fxSCHR+8CsTJW/5+HzUAxEOGUqZORUqrEp+nhIg9ZnsEom1qkAyekfNmuseJf4UoDRGIX6jO8Ze n4p5c4njVf20kw1cCkcpGGMCMTmcMfcH4NVyGNytvLefWHVhu7cdloRplvehcNT+f5yZ72CKVCC cv19rSaD0EOZki/GSB82IlNAOuAWfYtrWML+H+r+zJcXRTpY5rLoJwbg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEAfFlVrXvIfgyd2wtTLclwpUGn7ikWeyzkn32zXnE/3ZAKrEfK0zjNtI7oCeh9Q8xIhhFu5w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:9612:b0:b04:70f8:d454 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04b167e38fmr351130966b.51.1757230763803; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 00:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro4.fritz.box (p200300e0b724ff00f05906ba3bddd576.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b724:ff00:f059:6ba:3bdd:d576]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b0427c0d4cbsm1661482066b.45.2025.09.07.00.39.23 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Sep 2025 00:39:23 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Jeremy Bryant Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <87cy83md8f.fsf@jeremybryant.net> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87cy83md8f.fsf@jeremybryant.net> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 09:39:22 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Helmut Eller , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Jeremy Bryant writes: > Gerd M=C3=B6llmann writes: > >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >>>> From: Helmut Eller >>> Personally, I will be very sad if this work gets abandoned, but I >>> cannot do anything when people express feelings like those expressed >>> above. It's eventually up to those who work on the feature and are >>> motivated to get it into mainline. >> >> From what I see in git, as a bystander, either more or less everyone >> involved has lost interest, or it's considered stable, and there's not > > Sometimes it's 'dartkest before dawn'. > Recently only some weeks ago there was a question of the 'roadmap' for Em= acs 31. > ISTR that IGC was included on it. First thing I hear about that. >> much more to do. Or a mixture of that. Considering that I haven't heard >> of Stefan Kangas and Andrea for quite some time after initial >> "enthusiasm", I think that at least these two have lost interest. > > Perhaps Stefan and Andrea are busy. > > I recall that Andrea eventually reverted in support. > > I believe Stefan hasn't responded, so in particular also hasn't > rejected the idea. If you don't like the "not interested", one could also say, more neutrally, they have disappeared from igc. The effect is the same. I don't blame anyone, FWIW. > Previously RMS provided encouragement that a fork, if considered > practical, would be a good idea. A fork of Emacs with igc? I don't understand. Anyway... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 04:01:46 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 08:01:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41847 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvALK-0001D0-Gf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:01:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48662) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvALH-0001Ci-1z for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:01:43 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uvALA-0001IH-4J; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:01:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=8tYRlsVsfc9MMbwmxx188fG3JN6P4fkVYCh9l7RAXj0=; b=T71Hjnh2GK86spbAq8iV mkk8+XMfSdM3aw2nI44GKlD6NjBSAQxbuPyJcxOJ4XSYqR05TpFIj3pNr6PYkhjnuy/K/MAUzT98m hKup2zFOzkhE6KcYsLCqBYtdJnG5b2L22XyH1YegRpYuhRUS7uhBvG6m0pOEN/kHLSxmg7ul9F5s3 Su0jro8ZWsUQonjH4tojrjpILsO4QhqL/agscXf1mOZ2vH+ZjBdrAXAXWfZzRzz4ejEnIaEe+NutS CE2+Kg4Ls612TdvehoZwuzJevC9XLacVAW2gbhsHvbppCSCual6g5jbbqnXFjBio3mLz6Rt/utqzg 8Q07qUhqSWZaCQ==; Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 11:01:30 +0300 Message-Id: <86ikhuelnp.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= In-Reply-To: (message from Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= on Sun, 07 Sep 2025 09:39:22 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87cy83md8f.fsf@jeremybryant.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: jb@jeremybryant.net, eller.helmut@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Gerd Möllmann > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, Helmut Eller > > Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 09:39:22 +0200 > > Jeremy Bryant writes: > > >> From what I see in git, as a bystander, either more or less everyone > >> involved has lost interest, or it's considered stable, and there's not > > > > Sometimes it's 'dartkest before dawn'. > > Recently only some weeks ago there was a question of the 'roadmap' for Emacs 31. > > ISTR that IGC was included on it. > > First thing I hear about that. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2025-08/msg00681.html From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 04:07:11 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 08:07:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41867 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvAQY-0001Tm-Is for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:07:11 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x62c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62c]:54705) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvAQU-0001TB-MS for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:07:07 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b0411b83aafso578395166b.1 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 01:07:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757232420; x=1757837220; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=JYYMZ4SSIecCYhmmzq/G3rkhYe4zWKI8wYbeXXfszLQ=; b=PzJGYWXeKHd5YKehr046+/Y3SWYmy6OZTSBl7UsU2Jzay6CJ5IFQxuv3RmT062UqMA LRH9UnLuWPTzNO21bMylwRRDBaVrXHru+4yxjPdCs5XdwD59pmXGhNJ7HnbStOPDCxkM YGyjdEfOgYKPPTqfu/nmUMWsOIMACkGgzv3TnBfv5Dq3pTfDnqzhZrvaro8ctIMOluj4 oA4MqKdHHM/hA5/2tq975I5M9OIvGv6W7DyI8Hh+IBNg3ZGNQjqWUBeVwrU+p2VWWMbF efUsLfy148vsvjTFTiTx91/502b4NkJ+UHef+U3i4balA0j+S1LnCRwiJ5QaArVO++FW H6Aw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757232420; x=1757837220; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=JYYMZ4SSIecCYhmmzq/G3rkhYe4zWKI8wYbeXXfszLQ=; b=Vw5qNPUvewhNSmFVQHIuFzYY4TRUFcohAuOcjE/FLbYrcHtFxh/eomKaHQFE8se2JX UZcWIyD0J75ymD8vgY9rt7fsAcJAt7UZAGOuBO94V/o6NinmMZ8YfskKR+5CbtRaZaJW fdbX5eGlvDuU5WUymHGu2t5sPJCKp0wh4eAd42RPaGs+oKKOxoi5/GsQbnvv8UTphfxJ 5yQXiSuU+kIo01w7R0ZFyw2FC42hCswOoyctd7mI63BCwIFHqeh5/FdTfZFCL9hwkRaM fHmNA4v7RTIyTFCTMIqEkCcirXJ9879+5eXwm3msDOswpVtsMDJ7fiOEa3yj+cIsiMTQ MhSw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUR0458vj8gPWvTLsCt5yPRPWXrOwH3klXuuC1nJmVwew/Ty2OrfctwnjjJdWPb1NVdkpbgKA==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy14BRv1YHLEL3m5BygsHS3+3tu2u7xOLB9HqCL80AFEU2QxUnn xtccZIaafJlV4pzdSA1xs8vEOfLuPZumtBBbNCQ28V5ZS3dNa9MXnMJ0IkRwao8d X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvE8qqAcaRM4d11qk4lKpgtoHP3Lis5nw6Bu3fPi8pQ4rO/ianUZp3ymc4Im1E /vhx+qcukPfcHMtxmGWNTnp59AeI3iAn7n05WUC4n0Qgh1c1dP2rEm7NYxTCb6Uq7UuI9/eLL/9 oSCEmJFEFCi27d4UbnsiJykOkcfB1hdJPdJe6vgnNP+1PiPAmZxSDpcCiUO9147qPRTRVgg3kh2 xnccVQWEhyJUusMQ8IgBNM0wDJ1FE2CZ43qG0qmeAC+Bj21/TTd1vVOwlvCXxExe5aQ25OyUOfq bcR9x3EnERfnST06Y6s3RpxH8p5AO1VYOXAuOaTGSo34Z4UvAPlD0bsUt+N9T3GVO89j5IZuFAb Nx4Ej1B4h1OfwJL/EKUfyJIYKirIBG3cx45rrykElfuVjvs0H2f1odina36hxPkoz0KFEszs3AY SymyY1agqPaWACz6dzQNtxmtouVoBUDpGyW0pihuTM66I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE7fcE9czIQ/QYBgOrLr/Q4qxkS2N9Zq5rxdubwr8xjJ1Qp1/JkO4EWMJQFRU15+a2FTPFnOw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:7ba0:b0:b04:1e6d:63b4 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04b16dd7afmr401106966b.45.1757232419836; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 01:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro4.fritz.box (p200300e0b724ff00f05906ba3bddd576.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b724:ff00:f059:6ba:3bdd:d576]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b04670b5eacsm1055143366b.27.2025.09.07.01.06.59 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Sep 2025 01:06:59 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86ikhuelnp.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87cy83md8f.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86ikhuelnp.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 10:06:58 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: jb@jeremybryant.net, eller.helmut@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, Helmut Eller >> >> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 09:39:22 +0200 >>=20 >> Jeremy Bryant writes: >>=20 >> >> From what I see in git, as a bystander, either more or less everyone >> >> involved has lost interest, or it's considered stable, and there's not >> > >> > Sometimes it's 'dartkest before dawn'. >> > Recently only some weeks ago there was a question of the 'roadmap' for= Emacs 31. >> > ISTR that IGC was included on it. >>=20 >> First thing I hear about that. > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2025-08/msg00681.html Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 07:18:20 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 11:18:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42742 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvDPY-0003iP-0v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:18:20 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]:44476) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvDPT-0003i0-74 for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:18:15 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-623720201fdso2215844a12.1 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:18:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757243888; x=1757848688; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ALet9oV/CuGN6gu4n0rPU29CUzqBcsU7iOdBiXnyFPw=; b=WxggJy1dfREmI16zN3wyoA6TXW+BJlu2YizxUS4wUmrT/0twwGCe0J34KkF/3iYzkS C9WT9BzlkIqAycdAGc4+htxQLbVjyPCFLAo5zHEdVnlmT2dnR0pnCHYgCLEhCkho0q4o U94r8ayKrEE9Wms2AyCakmEvgnTs3EydSpyzMpKTyiVbOhdyXuBxtAJCAUSTtcibrI89 s2cWV4k3TPhqedJYztYsKz9qeunAqkRkxW7wASJeFg4tW99LuHDaTBjMJX5e+WVb4uju FY4FU8KfDpMN2zLbioWE5gx76J5WIuS2HZ2zKj0YGnQ0Pixsz0A9fMQNsN/OZFRsYjWX mLOQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757243888; x=1757848688; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=ALet9oV/CuGN6gu4n0rPU29CUzqBcsU7iOdBiXnyFPw=; b=q50Ev5eLmzYj49XScNXVi+vCvETLk7uz+0DMB7FrGNTcOCYmQ0HwBxEGUjAQ5Ljdp+ s0sqVnnU5mVhrVSJsoCfCCQ0jLPKKdFehpkEEueVQ5hiP48pFp5Qsl1HFxNug5iV+pl9 fSeEZWaHGdHT0F4G73UTSEfg1fcPMIyVFX3WZ5g4W86GuHeSYJ+18QQJhPqqGGMSPTft Ar6ZtOHEtW+0QPRkeF0N5Nf7+kuMec4F1O8Bh2i9BBS8DpXWBXSIwR+ViMI3BoTYXAas /I341T0UpR8taJcPpvDk3StEeaN49OckS3O/8/DB4AtDtrvysyfvjZIqepXE+sHSBCPZ vwIw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXE5d4WDIm0Dq5tJOCJ0v2gu9bibABObA/AGLWvTlz61jUtgqoe6ibSH6xgyGcjnPzotWDCuw==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxx3aDcDzBh+VGy5OFMUqbdQ1cA0K+xASDQ23V/KtnTco+D1Y3N uAziqqpOWOXbXQXTydvBy/1GvLeRkfuwQ81sh80RHIvBlz7+ccZU92z3eXUzog== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvwu7+qjlk/1GwOd5HBT1iG2Ojrkcchp6W5CMPFLo+dnGXgUAbX0cYwLaNQiyJ WxnETFi5dJaDK9RKzmI+jphcYXdSb8GgVM1x5/E3TCEDsWjJE7W4QMOpmrSFRJ7Np/Bsf1XDi2D wGNphDXLIAD/ud3g4N6nCGZEHCjhalsp3+sQcwyhzFxu5gRB/WjLa5Lw0pJ03mj91WiR+F6ol7v /V7GsN9JdXpYRqnyMmCCbQDc7OuovaNkrB/W7LiVKgBop8hmLVc8v/53TtHGSVQbEU3nZOyzjqs nvkVOox6Vz/utMXvk6HNir39UZwDQqZyOKqiwvTbz3moeRdnqgWbhGGnzYSpand2R30NL1BoKRq o3pAV49bli5BkIuM3UbU1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEOE8A7hdIlC+km4teLEvGgnKQS/MXd7ulaMAKXwzLSP7FbVe2f/+TdiK5a7tHvsjXGSJ3v6g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:2692:b0:626:4774:2420 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-62647742801mr2411409a12.20.1757243887993; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:18:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61cfc4e58aesm19753319a12.36.2025.09.07.04.18.07 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:18:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86tt1fe6ch.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <878qirfmvp.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1fe6ch.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 13:18:06 +0200 Message-ID: <87bjnmeck1.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Thanks! Don't hesitate to ask any questions you might have. How do I get write access to Emacs repo? Do I need to register an ssh key or something? Is there some documentation I should read first? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 07:28:04 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 11:28:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42768 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvDYx-0004C4-Ih for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:28:04 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x62b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62b]:55763) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvDYs-0004BQ-AI for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:27:59 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b042eb09948so664494466b.3 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:27:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757244471; x=1757849271; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=pqzzW8J198NMXfo9yW2j06iym1ZxBD34uplY4iuIBpo=; b=TQtF3CmAS6FabZbuHi8Ys4N6M9Q2LTGDi/R1TPUq7GSNvLgcE+Z3wvJ+mmJRafxpcd h5l2Xvx9eJcIRasBkWZyYeS1V3MCweuciR4OxH0vn+lQ/pl1hQIBauy+8nNPcWVTRMdL HtW3VjDn2odvZgq/jf9NZ4NuvWQg9+NnVh6w5B/6XhzCHUR7bdwugJ5msBCgIJjdDesf xhwE17b76LcqK0G2Mdi5S5Sbg9h+fz1uQclWUHWbjRMRn9283khdsd+yYuv/IWWE45mZ jr3QJxqKkGxtLnSQqm2FjbHDZkNwsw7TR1GqVkxeauZeXTn6jZxgYp3mBF28/dUi9BlB OfQw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757244471; x=1757849271; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=pqzzW8J198NMXfo9yW2j06iym1ZxBD34uplY4iuIBpo=; b=cspPQDGnMa+AaihVPNk49xft1bOUnSgk3ZMZDJ2dT82xj0zy4yiYWRMKNEkPuWqJ8G UXHpCEvmuJmjWyBk+EClKRWkw3WvOnmoKSqZKT8PnAiZkDErrdKJSiw3zrSiqqblnQnd +xMGMBoAgq3rqBpbqPJlroxcWVBL0iFOEhHhYh6YxOTlrxyJ9p4AobIdY8Sn5fxiwr29 wXOSrNl4D4YeKt2JQXYq2qyeVmXvaqsJrK/lz+008mO0tAuIrhrqc0RmhAom20aS+e78 HZZ/6yg9hqPqPAhTVjg4zTgeWdGJJ2xQqgwf05mzvhrfcoyaUmiddnvt8nY1PZiEM0C5 6M8Q== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWelB9qEh/tLCrZ56yxibmW5ZTu+DCUHt2eFzwZmtFljmlfRiAb+gnleEGNENZmH6Ca87LP5A==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YynQTGw7bTPbKDRjOsjv8JY26jqqF36cptezkc2Un4U9ieO6c8k M0CqWl/NXV1DtFs+3AoP/t9dpTV+0pnPSIp1nW3cpPP7oWHZ3jlSN5blZRj5Fg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvf+oRlxdDpbH105yWxOtqIkEqGEWT0YakDounnIFNJd9DtECNZ7uN/wdSKbOf xPct3PQdFuc89aAGO0TsH/QWskkXyr88yZTUZK9UwNVTLgXegAcrCW5yozuQwCbQVgv/1F3Ldud Pio4v8SVnuI/GUE9KVjjjQlJHXOkIfi0TzPO+lzKzGnIVB32rrCj0AKl4Iw/POLa6jCxvsZJ3a1 GfoRuu1Xcc9GBGyGEx7RhmS2coRJC2O70m6t/qqNOzKVGjmCDLcdP5DINhXPvTeOkHwcQ8HWzsS ePWpN2kG0AYSg0dfi1JcGheMRhVuv7GJAWHCO1lakfOCBiAKWuN9UJEknEneoqZox6oDFJMdA0a jHpAe4Bsy93GWBaGDe8J1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEK5OS4vJY9aAb0HCwuMR2Bc7h23NylFZEk1SRWZ7W4vMy5oJNaXg/FbXaoSWVOFCtSNo9F8w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:268a:b0:afe:63ae:c337 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04b17a46aamr443274466b.57.1757244471305; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b02152cc1b8sm1990383566b.36.2025.09.07.04.27.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:27:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86qzwieurs.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> <868qirfxk8.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> <87v7lve6po.fsf@gmail.com> <86segze674.fsf@gnu.org> <87ldmre5ms.fsf@gmail.com> <86qzwieurs.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 13:27:50 +0200 Message-ID: <874iteec3t.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, relekarpayas@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sun, Sep 07 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Helmut Eller >> Cc: relekarpayas@gmail.com, gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:35:23 +0200 >> >> On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> >> From: Helmut Eller >> >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, >> >> 79346@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:12:03 +0200 >> >> >> >> On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Payas Relekar wrote: >> >> >> >> [...] >> >> > IIRC, the biggest con was having to keep up with upstream, which has >> >> > barely changed in years. The whole vendoring discussion began because >> >> > Emacs requires patches to MPS that aren't merged upstream because it >> >> > moves so slow (or not at all). Should we get a round of votes from >> >> > actual maintainers of feature/igc and just be done with this? >> >> > Gerd/Helmut WDYT? >> >> >> >> I would create a fork on GitHub and tell people that they should fetch >> >> MPS from there. >> > >> > If this fork will be maintained by the Emacs project, then having the >> > fork as part of emacs.git would be easier on us, both from the POV of >> > installing changes, and from the POV of integration into the Emacs >> > build procedure. >> > >> > What are the advantages of having the fork in GitHub, rather than in >> > our repository? >> >> It would be essentially the same as what we have now; so I think it's >> less work to set up. I suppose it would also be easier to keep the >> commit histories separate. > > I think the ease of handling sources in a single repository outweighs > these advantages, as it also makes building Emacs and producing > release tarballs much easier. Ok, then let's do that. Just create a new directory mps/ and copy the MPS sources there, right? Or should we use git subtrees like here: https://github.com/wingo/whippet/blob/main/doc/manual.md#subtree-merges From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 07:32:47 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 11:32:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42784 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvDdX-0007EQ-2M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:32:47 -0400 Received: from mail-ed1-x536.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::536]:61901) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvDdS-0007E4-EJ for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:32:43 -0400 Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-6263d0e4b94so1587410a12.3 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:32:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757244755; x=1757849555; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=RnQ3kznAt9ZKWg9RfKgvtlrltZwkGK+uGPwGs1TvigI=; b=nKoxZTGqqBMAVX7DogJ7PWD71p8uOavJSE7v6hjIY7ll5I97a03ZNWRMz7HpJ8vXtt os0jScJNXs4vRLrdoS4pihc7I3u06QIcZq69vcUjmp0Ywk2NtSxtpyeWJ42swhfMLVeC wMBInH7MSV5ZPScx1UiEO/gPX/taqXh/taZ31RTMdqYAKB819EvR3lF1GwrjEIdzz0i/ OgffRgEprV4uBTcyJXHX/dKe8uCI/KKnhlCb2wfOOCivFbeUrwpKVp1qd5BjyjCjXn4M Q7uvkVoG4/WJf5FOENay2ra2M3iA1ydUttfes//I4x+fcZrm4eeIOe0gTcLrsUWBSYBH euUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757244755; x=1757849555; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=RnQ3kznAt9ZKWg9RfKgvtlrltZwkGK+uGPwGs1TvigI=; b=Bkqgo9yDd+JZQtheJRIyNyyvBgIXExjvHvFdVgPbxX1DGlWEnN0pRBqhhbyu93Ud5j AzDpYS2NR+rQ7AM256e/QXSYD2v8aoKNzHPU1x6x2xhl/4hJxFtDtG6KD39PTpR25gIn pntTpjrBXVKhNJWgk3iXs6M1X+Iq6CjWlJCtPTwe0xAwaqNcGUAV+Hx8ypd1feeXyGo/ bDAN8VC4Y7z2oXPD5y3B9AqG7eeguveA6nJOlVd7FZKWnss6cB2SRS5IvzzIE+2ileML kNs1o9+v7/EUmnKZMpJ7PM3lAPSGhidweeLLgmSM4IFGeTH4yVd5yKZH8dib0WO4ueph 50WQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWkT/pauBteWuk2FpTCqJHd/UgrECUkqJW8OZ5YBLmVGyQUWyREYj5pIWcqxL1EcQ9wZ/Tufg==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwzATVCwzouN1DlAqrg3iQ5WKtwuwxI0EJBtvUekigc9wk2/2ZE 3WWntvI3cNAZHaeez8owKNF5kpTB0zgAbHDGyNE1diZp/q6gfQ5foiDDxvgdYnWX X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncs0SxqY2aTStzRtyZWEFfUDY5PsXCXhQMy7nIHhRcTba7p4aacDDB9UQyQaO9a u9Q8O01U1pGN9W65ymzffSkZnsIPXdeXAitDQqLIR/aSLkt54R4o+Sxp/mMoruZvcvoEVg+39d9 d4Uel8r+0PMVZhl8cvu+CapP52KNfE701dS++nR/YwKBy6pyvqnlRJ8SBLCY9bb39GMfUjwiwwq Knx+xed1zMwJEys4PNuwEboEY+tyxWLkvhKWIxBHByOV7dT3AmvnLaLDnFlUxF4sqdhlNLzboWk 69+Vzij3ANNONeyFbKMKR1vvcMzo0ZT7Id2fnZBKJcOkcggoCO+pMcZvPUI95of9rRmlZAabkmE MQ6beLB6m0jIdSgLTNbdTlOrBDf172If6PKYxSkqiGjB1+ylExIZV7W9gHqzAdiIHB7mXJfy8TE bC74+gOxP8x74S0J8lDeLFEQhNMLD+M6VN7HHcWvteIfAvyj+v3YhGQpAZWwc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE4bjqNmsjTDMz2BO9IMRMErkslYJkleVK6rffCVHIQuGhCzAqcMWJXiOyEQyIiK4iFSaA/ZQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:3489:b0:627:eaf6:88d8 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-627eaf68e2dmr1089445a12.18.1757244755050; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pro4.fritz.box (p200300e0b724ff00f05906ba3bddd576.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b724:ff00:f059:6ba:3bdd:d576]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61cfc1c7caesm19890463a12.9.2025.09.07.04.32.34 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Sep 2025 04:32:34 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= To: Helmut Eller Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <87bjnmeck1.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <878qirfmvp.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1fe6ch.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnmeck1.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 13:32:33 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Helmut Eller writes: > On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> Thanks! Don't hesitate to ask any questions you might have. > > How do I get write access to Emacs repo? Do I need to register an ssh > key or something? Is there some documentation I should read first? I think you need to create an account on savannah https://savannah.gnu.org/account/register.php For that account, one can store your public SSH key and so on in the settings. Eli can then add you to the access list of the Emacs project. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 07:49:51 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 11:49:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42837 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvDu3-00087c-3D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:49:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46050) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvDtu-00086y-A8 for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:49:46 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uvDtk-00004w-H7; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:49:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=zoXyiRrq7Ea69Yd499ZSyPFI0wrSclnLdScvKWKoxRs=; b=UUZqfGyrFI2Lk5cTfO5i NzhF/0RzNGI94dw8fX+rSqnYNzlhPFtjFOtgbmKiS9buk5Xa/NpKo5M9byiAaUtx99OxTEa4I+pIz dNZM5qKnHE3o4fd5Zt01JHY/g/+eBJnCaOFcGC3mEgAOIv+EECJsD5GVphck4hXmpvNFen00MDNIs f0c4/T22Q7hQmgS1kHPiQYTiKz4s5u/7pymjXlRBZjPoFS6ZZG8Yvr3aPr3Ny3kVnf/saxdHB14ql k4PlCneHCCuM2Xr62OZZ1NF+q05PhTgNXCySgSxgAxmTuctEgCPtu+YLeW6cChtDDajwdNrsn5DJx vN05Y84Bu9zGUg==; Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 14:48:49 +0300 Message-Id: <86cy82eb4u.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gerd =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6llmann?= In-Reply-To: (message from Gerd =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6llmann?= on Sun, 07 Sep 2025 13:32:33 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <878qirfmvp.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1fe6ch.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnmeck1.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Gerd Möllmann > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 13:32:33 +0200 > > Helmut Eller writes: > > > How do I get write access to Emacs repo? Do I need to register an ssh > > key or something? Is there some documentation I should read first? > > I think you need to create an account on savannah > > https://savannah.gnu.org/account/register.php > > For that account, one can store your public SSH key and so on in the > settings. Eli can then add you to the access list of the Emacs project. Right. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 07:52:27 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 11:52:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42848 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvDwZ-0008Jc-6G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:52:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43052) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvDwO-0008Iq-Ub for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:52:18 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uvDwE-0000VX-BY; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 07:52:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=d01VfmrnKyisqC1AlWyFFh/TE9Q8+vKwB8ik51o5nK0=; b=l5iFybkc/y73 R4fp8+5z3mK14fK6mOlXep+cz4SVdnzxxXrsnieMSIQvKh5kIKgyVvPQgC6Sj2nUunbpiDrUhH+ml bnZcatIlqhbxtHmR8kbtUBq77TPQZaHf0DEMN1X0l9ogwB0NeKSw0T9FyEWrkotxj2ToECnAgOMM+ Xu1w84pjP3pnzpzQwLT/BkOvHW7jlk3P/sSW81cnqgMUyWTyjbVMOnW7BYAT6NW/5iUcMVwgvY4/k iGvInnO8CKLhBgLjG7ItBShN/k7GGe9nfAaxWtmjHU6WquDEJeV3i2QHtShsuBfj/BwYkrI9plAoB ReFhCqkslft+HqXGN8Dfgg==; Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 14:52:00 +0300 Message-Id: <86a536eazj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <874iteec3t.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Sun, 07 Sep 2025 13:27:50 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> <868qirfxk8.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> <87v7lve6po.fsf@gmail.com> <86segze674.fsf@gnu.org> <87ldmre5ms.fsf@gmail.com> <86qzwieurs.fsf@gnu.org> <874iteec3t.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, relekarpayas@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Cc: relekarpayas@gmail.com, gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 13:27:50 +0200 > > On Sun, Sep 07 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> From: Helmut Eller > >> Cc: relekarpayas@gmail.com, gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:35:23 +0200 > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> > >> >> From: Helmut Eller > >> >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, > >> >> 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > >> >> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 21:12:03 +0200 > >> >> > >> >> On Sat, Sep 06 2025, Payas Relekar wrote: > >> >> > >> >> [...] > >> >> > IIRC, the biggest con was having to keep up with upstream, which has > >> >> > barely changed in years. The whole vendoring discussion began because > >> >> > Emacs requires patches to MPS that aren't merged upstream because it > >> >> > moves so slow (or not at all). Should we get a round of votes from > >> >> > actual maintainers of feature/igc and just be done with this? > >> >> > Gerd/Helmut WDYT? > >> >> > >> >> I would create a fork on GitHub and tell people that they should fetch > >> >> MPS from there. > >> > > >> > If this fork will be maintained by the Emacs project, then having the > >> > fork as part of emacs.git would be easier on us, both from the POV of > >> > installing changes, and from the POV of integration into the Emacs > >> > build procedure. > >> > > >> > What are the advantages of having the fork in GitHub, rather than in > >> > our repository? > >> > >> It would be essentially the same as what we have now; so I think it's > >> less work to set up. I suppose it would also be easier to keep the > >> commit histories separate. > > > > I think the ease of handling sources in a single repository outweighs > > these advantages, as it also makes building Emacs and producing > > release tarballs much easier. > > Ok, then let's do that. > > Just create a new directory mps/ and copy the MPS sources there, right? > > Or should we use git subtrees like here: > > https://github.com/wingo/whippet/blob/main/doc/manual.md#subtree-merges I don't think we need subtrees, but it would be nice to preserve the Git history, if that's feasible. Could people who did that with other packages we added to Emacs (like use-package) please describe how they did it? If this is too much, just importing the latest sources as they are would be good enough, IMO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 09:18:47 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 13:18:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43089 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvFI7-0004NR-2x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 09:18:47 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x62f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62f]:48130) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvFHi-0004MW-Cs for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 09:18:23 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-afcb7322da8so693961466b.0 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 06:18:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757251095; x=1757855895; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=rByahkhwTOfZMAmhHqv8iZsJfVMR6Pw03sNTbnUMgXs=; b=mTby4Hre7j4guj047eM0dhN646Vt0n/75fTcFPR5qnC16b73v0DsFZRyo6vs9Bq0Av 5ZQV3j3ah3icsjQjjS/6FqFFFRSLPdE5Epr3pfjJquuZRrGETS4WGPdwVL5F2WFCIro9 gGaGyB/Frw8tJoCuRcQR1KjZiaavHb62u8ouwl8dlnVyxPof81w52e7Umq3nBtEXCz/c 4n5j01qtDt3kHdUr7pUuSpyDWNsMdG47ravbR7sxbHLkfjN49BeTKorZLaOLpEvV7cxh 1cp/jGiwa/cD04bFYGAQrBkeLcIJzjODsNpXwHyTQhVKQ3pMvRfUpFbd8hEK388i6h+I 3qXA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757251095; x=1757855895; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=rByahkhwTOfZMAmhHqv8iZsJfVMR6Pw03sNTbnUMgXs=; b=Eu4hVdw3DM7IAA1TAPPHbuoGl270HfE4h/aY5czIlCFhzGO1VUlYYNMOI8B5rC6cst Ygq94t4sb01gUgnxHBccqhBG1WRC+SKIlIc46gWwHFqRDcQ1azC57uSfAQrnaXGSH5BW hxEWSiXauu2rgvTvfd61wAUxakQf26lQhF/a3SzFn/NW0PAOJyOJR0lB32pf0ASdMNtS PsGgBRmhu2F4gTANXg3+TLcdVXzwJHbhDefq540NG9ZhwBt/Qv3FeJjXOysR6SagAjMe 9NnUqf8LzU/tXB9wQWBcHECiT4FUy1MMFEzzScnR/m/T0jGbh4STg0FEjnnkNfu+6doj fFlw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCV80fA76W5fOPS+ZEE1n/baz9emSAaLbzZYADY5SxxIXmdHRqsF8l0YxrlRvwMdIcaLA1qGrw==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxO2c7yzauTgiFq4FFpnZYnEnnNWzJKn6cf2iGPp4u1BEE+9nyP JLmlx8y4x44FukpS/3WLcRfgIr5zmehjwnkMTKpHqvRo3CAW8RHl3nVL01nZrg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuaSiCooMbDz6Y5UQVTIqwc7Pn0Uo7DAws0SD2krWJ6MpzXbXep+UJwUaj4zV9 lRpWUUewcxHNAtkD6BDCsWGdNDu+49OWllZU2WpkR8Z4LClczAY30WvrGIo6gBvbQCJg01vmbUN kAy+nAkwuq0oJVoyUZ31SiOpkRCPgdYieDD/6BYlBl9GT5WifhezHKqZefp6NXWAA8cg9kucz5h yjkWaO8Q7+CxwQ0VJVMksTjfbtQzChp6ZxL1KzlJz0FndfnTkltDkU6lXoFc5Zg8JgHx8n0fPEd 98pwjYq6IlTTkWhWi28v29pXpoL++EWV+1uV+7BC71TntST2ARINp0korxKCVUm4ausTAE+DjaI aiaxsRqrHxnh5sDLoFFBW X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHQbjnXIIXGYT1Jzy1uYO21AQKKiLRrnRbZYrGsHdbE9hNSygQIil+dLSZ67XqhDiHV4XFHEQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3da7:b0:b04:4928:7e33 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04b1663f5cmr487535766b.37.1757251095232; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 06:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-b042fcae867sm1633460866b.58.2025.09.07.06.18.14 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Sep 2025 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86cy82eb4u.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <878qirfmvp.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1fe6ch.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnmeck1.fsf@gmail.com> <86cy82eb4u.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 15:18:14 +0200 Message-ID: <87zfb6csfd.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sun, Sep 07 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 13:32:33 +0200 >>=20 >> Helmut Eller writes: >>=20 >> > How do I get write access to Emacs repo? Do I need to register an ssh >> > key or something? Is there some documentation I should read first? >>=20 >> I think you need to create an account on savannah >>=20 >> https://savannah.gnu.org/account/register.php >>=20 >> For that account, one can store your public SSH key and so on in the >> settings. Eli can then add you to the access list of the Emacs project. > > Right. OK, my login name is ellerh. Eli can you give me access? I will then try to commit the idle-timer thing. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 09:38:52 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 13:38:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43163 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvFbX-0005eV-G5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 09:38:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53466) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvFbT-0005eA-Bz for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 09:38:48 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uvFbJ-0001P3-2E; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 09:38:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=nrEtaWxOHJs2iHRFw0hXrNldvT6W6mdG+Lu5v0YZHi4=; b=cUzGB87DgTwXj57ayqPI 572F3LvV9DYbAbr2hDMyb9rxApk9BZg4oSU2vWVqS9xDQKLapCndWYgFOXMX11eYC/xCQ6HQ1661Z XZBGK9em4+6EVZOnwXFoBaauYtxUWp3bkm3TGv7GvPRdb/K31N/tuuLvjolJTGiBd4TiPhbwz3giU yJJ3f2XN0Y97dT9tGN0OTUNeHH/F3jOp5T0d6G3RWbTu3+3Mu2X/tLSNS1ahHBcEl0VZERqyCKNok gHCa/rqECICDJ1A5njiQMTthbpW8Qb0ARegZKCIcouCQYAT+mfXfySbYJKqeVuhodqRd2X1lcds+K gX17KyB+n5bSIg==; Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 16:38:32 +0300 Message-Id: <865xdue61z.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <87zfb6csfd.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Sun, 07 Sep 2025 15:18:14 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <878qirfmvp.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1fe6ch.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnmeck1.fsf@gmail.com> <86cy82eb4u.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfb6csfd.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Cc: Gerd Möllmann , > 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 15:18:14 +0200 > > On Sun, Sep 07 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> From: Gerd Möllmann > >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 13:32:33 +0200 > >> > >> Helmut Eller writes: > >> > >> > How do I get write access to Emacs repo? Do I need to register an ssh > >> > key or something? Is there some documentation I should read first? > >> > >> I think you need to create an account on savannah > >> > >> https://savannah.gnu.org/account/register.php > >> > >> For that account, one can store your public SSH key and so on in the > >> settings. Eli can then add you to the access list of the Emacs project. > > > > Right. > > OK, my login name is ellerh. Eli can you give me access? You haven't requested membership, so your username didn't appear among those who are pending for the Emacs group. But I think I've succeeded in finding you anyway, so you should be able to commit now. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 09:48:51 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 13:48:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43228 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvFlD-0006Sr-9X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 09:48:51 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-x62c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c]:60441) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvFl9-0006SU-A1 for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 09:48:48 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-25634c5ebdeso858725ad.0 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 06:48:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757252921; x=1757857721; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:message-id:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=1cp9Q8yoyIRnu4evoaZ15wU+wh/UVEJyluJiIshKWKs=; b=ejviwwXD1HqeJtsDG3UVzYF2LTTDVgJCy8Ke0UZCW+kf9rrBcWlo6zwMs6/XXScLhS SfB3oKiB7rxos7rS24FVCdjT8sjMQrjoiKSwJcu7MXtd0Xusv8bxbBrHxNbBgGyeaVug mFrLva/eoV1F/+bBW4+7qvBzhaAnfRMtD/bLYfZodJvBBZ+xRAZNOsOFlU7CieX9l2+v kZWvDr6VrTGiwyWkA9Mv9DJw6ayqcdAPIOqzPmEM+Am/9/UA8XNNd1IqjOAHAtqiC6PM OkhmRAOw6wq8WV12CmUgiZg6shdEgRWi3Yuzc/qk188vaVhelmpnO4r93BhmKfrH2Rp7 +ukg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757252921; x=1757857721; h=mime-version:message-id:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=1cp9Q8yoyIRnu4evoaZ15wU+wh/UVEJyluJiIshKWKs=; b=U5DYYIaFZtcSbKApbjYzijcIEG77aPNe2GJfl7RWpPSJxXZNxwxGYCGqkfpiT2Q3O9 GFIqdXWFCneAuBfs+HsrctgXv0IC2sBwzW25js8wCFw6g2sHbQLeO0fjklb/KFSlbzvP 9ue/SSYXc61hWTQLw0SqhtqBA/C/JVv622WaarSELDdSaEq8/y8AdpljSU/zaxwa2zBm 3M0Nvqq7frU34/USPfS9OIz/48WRvWnLtDWbuGqEAGq+9XaKNxEUvk1ueaRSwfC2CHkp FTlpX2vhEgBTgLop1ysBQiLcZdDnIHIUqy1MgmOlLo3VWhcF2Ly0lYItVqiS974F4gst BZyA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVEoeNngJnssH1b67fhA7tT9h79GTUaVC9s69E3KtU5NwXKEjwA3PwuDzFVDnp22neW78Bwcw==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyemzNp/VLcjb//zWufuqVJ85KKgTW4dBFcZcdGMuLiru7sYGuW 8Pb3z6FDp/V4Ni0i6XoNzqNxQ+GkpFd+IRwQQ4hConE8iRIzLo/5WhlY X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncurh7tvBNmBunsJ6goiNywKbFoNGmnXNSutOdDqUXleCeXB+QCtanse9xv8hgj T77vdaMWdbeK90kVWAmHgTuTXcP2HhfQljFpu/6jx8g4l+qdIe6Jp/7a/kE2CC+ZI2nOQCLeRmW se6soe1QEZgacK8Vy3psQfCkycAQYxrwaUxAPeWVuSpxHNCxnYLtwR9+4OECmI2Zw0ZBg5u3Bg9 LtMdE8VHFxewegbet8kfr74kOXdU1ifJeQdQZ5AdgDTK+4+Fd0BymH5REKEu+36VHefHTlYhi65 ud9lIIYRBY/sfnunnA2XA627yn7pCIYspYYLMIF6+EjfC1bzfGOmxbl9WW1OpTAQ0kAaJQJgkyp U0YnGKF5s3ZdYysfHb09TMYwyGcpZT+eBIBAeIRHyeeA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEcwJQJqJ85eZVK21feqZmPKOIXSRrcSjkAIuf5zlj3a5Krbf/vvLU01GBs/jAd3b71CrY6qw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:f681:b0:250:74b2:a840 with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-25172483a34mr71417695ad.44.1757252920654; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 06:48:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([58.84.62.162]) by smtp.gmail.com with UTF8SMTPSA id d9443c01a7336-24afcbf0268sm162229735ad.8.2025.09.07.06.48.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Sep 2025 06:48:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Payas Relekar To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <86a536eazj.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7lvmzxa.fsf@gmail.com> <868qirfxk8.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnnmxzg.fsf@gmail.com> <87v7lve6po.fsf@gmail.com> <86segze674.fsf@gnu.org> <87ldmre5ms.fsf@gmail.com> <86qzwieurs.fsf@gnu.org> <874iteec3t.fsf@gmail.com> <86a536eazj.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.12; emacs 31.0.50 Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 19:18:37 +0530 Message-ID: <874iteqsp6.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org, Helmut Eller X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I don't think we need subtrees, but it would be nice to preserve the > Git history, if that's feasible. Could people who did that with other > packages we added to Emacs (like use-package) please describe how they > did it? I was tangentially involved during merging use-package and eglot. This gist includes scripts used to merge eglot: https://gist.github.com/joaotavora/2ed97f2ec85958986983d5cb78202770 My original, simpler, dumber version is here: https://gist.github.com/bhankas/422c34db2e987d4dc3f243e26ba156a3 This is admittedly more complicated than bare minimum needed to get the merge done, because we wanted to preserve URLs to original issue/MR. During use-package merge I believe Stefan Kangas did all the merging work, but I couldn't find the scripts used during that time in my mailbox. During both merges there was also a task about checking copyright assignments that added some more complications, but I believe it won't be an issue this time around due to permissive license. > If this is too much, just importing the latest sources as they are > would be good enough, IMO. -- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 09:55:33 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 13:55:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43681 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvFrh-00070E-GH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 09:55:33 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x631.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::631]:55413) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvFrb-0006wU-Fi for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 09:55:28 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x631.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b03fa5c5a89so510675066b.2 for <79346@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 06:55:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1757253321; x=1757858121; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Oqymph5HodalRmAP4sLXPTesYrscMTdtTTm2b+FZe/k=; b=A7PxENw2vuK0TEiNE0h6DOy7Y5/1UKFUmenEEnA94X21Dv5pi4UfHE+R0DjbvCWHse PuiExkDt67eMbWyF4ZD2O/9JeO4x0m5LyfuEm8bmBsabhn6YOk05e/td1aEgEkkk2svI WJLGtCeDUiGG5ONZaL5xCEhPnE6HDTvFvDpm7hFhJ0gxVO61Pj5y2X/G+uS/i05dRcKb NkU9uZ67TqyiI4BZAjmiuGbFndbCyz1ojeU6hDqbb5L+9fav2UE8tUlXx01I9g5nwTNw E14z/Z94P4J5rtFHFrHfcO1c0ZeDe0TGb2ZJNjyHNzJk/mhSKM15NUfVrp9skj/xh98S KRwg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757253321; x=1757858121; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Oqymph5HodalRmAP4sLXPTesYrscMTdtTTm2b+FZe/k=; b=nm9U5A1OPuHby/67V5Je9EsmOiYu2Gv3jLuAArP7ED8gC/5HvswHCn9suFh/fOSpQi TeRSnujnDOdRw0+r4lkz0e2k5gqfbeQwmgVjw93ImmevcVZvwfiXokUY9Mw9uWZFBRE5 Lrf42uyZ+lvE1XbR30Ng3DMdNzYb1mNHtjnCLOdlsiXBo7KVgNoWibWjSJ6+SyqjO8mX 6loelJ/MH4FUfvg40vI9pRb4OPnq7+sGJ3n1RCSs/H/aCHtbVzYLnp5KGeTCivZfdCvn uSDmHvRHx8NhyznK89+JphKlAYoZz4bV+ZwbT686EVC6ST+hbxX08NRYqiEMO+X7lsmk sVvg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCU2U5vgiJ5bTyteVd3esMOnt1XNBrnOZsmY0u5z8Z9qupLH8dlaQe+BeMBA6VPvhiy9OhqJjw==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxhb3uwWoJOtb2Dhyn26hSaVLE9T19TjGVgJyBzLXE+zgaM7tYQ tb5loeSCpekIVsxS1Z3bxiBD2z8p9e6oL35qzy+IihWOXynCWo27aKNvyDnsqw== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsbbjuEap1+HlKsCC/7p0cf7PW4znv15R2apBh5oX9DsVFy4HyBUpiNX5+v+VB QN2BUxuHvf17bmtWWwL30AaFmJw2pIg4ILvEUAK28ynvY+eiu6csbwyfOfOkJ88c/0ubwWI/yQY J12lwqqerxOXHSrLyA3WRiLwMVuarUwy3+leGOHnWk3oZzaa8079Vphlw1HC+b9IjlGBSO3UxsZ kJhy1ISyVF6NGRcRMN7Q9CH3/IAL6mG1JNDzqD9wMnTSQfB6LxyCKnzjmR7V1ZQFP7TOsB/8YwO NkUGTHCmOiJc/rjed0bHdkjL0ykr4shAiwzlMv1VU9LBZ7t3wkupzeP+6ej2d20qjQMf3vneS5M rWFFEadrSeyeM4iV+VaKmW3X3RtaLgTA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFnYNRlgPyjagpfR3G5TSIQk67juw+Z3B6vjcHGYOIr6cZhgeZKzBNdIxQ1nlQPPFILnFXv/Q== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3c8c:b0:b04:59c4:d90 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-b04b16dec24mr444999366b.46.1757253320643; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 06:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([31.177.112.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61cfc5622f0sm19922561a12.51.2025.09.07.06.55.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Sep 2025 06:55:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld In-Reply-To: <865xdue61z.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <878qirfmvp.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1fe6ch.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnmeck1.fsf@gmail.com> <86cy82eb4u.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfb6csfd.fsf@gmail.com> <865xdue61z.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 15:55:19 +0200 Message-ID: <87segycqpk.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Sun, Sep 07 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > You haven't requested membership, so your username didn't appear among > those who are pending for the Emacs group. > > But I think I've succeeded in finding you anyway, so you should be > able to commit now. Yes, I think the commit worked. Thanks! Helmut From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 07 10:17:04 2025 Received: (at 79346) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2025 14:17:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44856 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvGCW-0008V8-EC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 10:17:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37730) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uvGCP-0008UL-IF for 79346@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 10:17:01 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uvGCG-0005WQ-BF; Sun, 07 Sep 2025 10:16:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=7IigrJIpa2iLPEAh8ENIZUkw6mwd/PIJ+zaoqwgdUFQ=; b=YkLff8jjNJUg aAu6ylEBhmpJpkVwt8F9fL1HQsHWT1I20wKImnb1Ru6aNp+Pvv+B+JCcDtJ1gV4kmOJUHy+P+fsV4 lRqbaA7YSqwKiPIqjNnJ9S69vKYMA63gHLJvNfbJR75qJrTLOVMucRBylq3qMsmWUVDgFifDmgXbX Z6omm8TyzDCdFkdVDZ2HKpnHStfOuhzWncNp1RfV8zXmDja0jIvjCt5E4zbgjmIrJYronfr0kS5Bo pdzGrD+VLiyB046QM2g0IT29nvCpGN4+4pmj4BvvthagYFG/ZUkDJLPdJHQ0LBU2aRxQXUQ0x6oWC 9PU6qRo0N7zTj02y/P84ZA==; Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 17:16:45 +0300 Message-Id: <86348ye4aa.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Helmut Eller In-Reply-To: <87segycqpk.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Helmut Eller on Sun, 07 Sep 2025 15:55:19 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79346: igc: PolicyShouldCollectWorld References: <87h5xphvox.fsf@gmail.com> <86bjnwpsf7.fsf@gnu.org> <878qj0hrp3.fsf@gmail.com> <86o6rvoplj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfbfhmmy.fsf@gmail.com> <86jz2jon24.fsf@gnu.org> <87tt1ihdva.fsf@gmail.com> <87jz2egens.fsf@gmail.com> <878qishmho.fsf@gmail.com> <86a538hyht.fsf@gnu.org> <878qirfmvp.fsf@gmail.com> <86tt1fe6ch.fsf@gnu.org> <87bjnmeck1.fsf@gmail.com> <86cy82eb4u.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfb6csfd.fsf@gmail.com> <865xdue61z.fsf@gnu.org> <87segycqpk.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79346 Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Helmut Eller > Cc: gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, 79346@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2025 15:55:19 +0200 > > On Sun, Sep 07 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > You haven't requested membership, so your username didn't appear among > > those who are pending for the Emacs group. > > > > But I think I've succeeded in finding you anyway, so you should be > > able to commit now. > > Yes, I think the commit worked. Thanks! It did, indeed.