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I believe it's the case that the first arg to `dolist' can be a defvar (special/dynamic variable). Grepping shows that this is _very rarely_ done. I gave up scanning a full grep of the Emacs sources - I came across _only_ `apropos-item' as a defvar: (dolist (apropos-item p) ...) It's possible that users aren't aware of this possibility, and if they were then their code could sometimes be a bit simpler. E.g., instead of this: (let ((v my-defvar)) (dolist (v some-list) (setq my-defvar v) ...)) They can do this: (dolist (my-defvar some-list) ...). Maybe it would be good to point out in the doc that the VAR argument can be either a lexical variable or a dynamic variable. The same could be said for other, similar macros, such as `dotimes'. The doc does say that VAR is bound..., so it doesn't say it _can't_ be a dynamic variable. But maybe it would help to make this clearer. In GNU Emacs 30.2 (build 2, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2025-08-14 built on AVALON Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.26100 System Description: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (v10.0.2009.26100.4652) Configured using: 'configure --with-modules --without-dbus --with-native-compilation=3Daot --without-compress-install --with-tree-sitter CFLAGS=3D-O2 prefix=3D/g/rel/install-emacs-30.2' Configured features: ACL GIF GMP GNUTLS HARFBUZZ JPEG LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY W32NOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XPM ZLIB (NATIVE_COMP present but libgccjit not available) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 27 07:37:27 2025 Received: (at 79320) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Aug 2025 11:37:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59694 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1urET1-0005Y6-6e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Aug 2025 07:37:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39744) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1urESx-0005Xg-W5 for 79320@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 Aug 2025 07:37:24 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1urESs-0004CR-93; Wed, 27 Aug 2025 07:37:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=76xI36xbL5XrHoCZhB/zQ1h8tYGQY/RH2GoLktEEdO0=; b=aCd1v5G1yz61 9jnpYbFSvmCmUKb2N2wtftt+ibKlROJKA/96Iqi1otSttqer6LXEUrpsQAiByOzF1I+7chE7Zx5h0 RNBOPUEMA6pI8e/4zoNA2dexe1SBeh3DXnxH8JXeSLzfE5zGMvdo4iT6tB4m7nylLTSkWMNjQqYXf ECgveG35mP4/YzjJt7YOabVeMUyDlzqUf8UXSaluYgEHWgGU9kmaxvgSgVuTmjEh9nl8lnhSUDvUv Sx3EHJACJRKzkgIEYyOH6nG+6BjGvcizLZhPzLZxWnyiX2raKSAwmdFZwM5TxpiZuaR+JoJwSEqbM hLfP2uTmTAjoIsVfqCvFRw==; Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2025 14:36:39 +0300 Message-Id: <86y0r5t2rc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) Subject: Re: bug#79320: 30.2; Doc of `dolist' References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79320 Cc: 79320@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2025 19:49:42 +0000 > From: Drew Adams via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" > > Minor enhancement request. > > I believe it's the case that the first arg to `dolist' can be a defvar > (special/dynamic variable). > > Grepping shows that this is _very rarely_ done. I gave up scanning a > full grep of the Emacs sources - I came across _only_ `apropos-item' as > a defvar: (dolist (apropos-item p) ...) Where does the documentation say that the first argument to dolist _cannot_ be a dynamically-bounded variable? 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Wed, 27 Aug 2025 14:24:54 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#79320: 30.2; Doc of `dolist' Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#79320: 30.2; Doc of `dolist' Thread-Index: AQHcF0b2jQeUeRGKi0mc0i4wOPpDbrR2jNAA Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2025 14:24:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <86y0r5t2rc.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <86y0r5t2rc.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DS7PR10MB5232:EE_|DS7PR10MB5071:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 5aa2f4d8-0806-4b47-e959-08dde5757e09 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; ARA:13230040|366016|1800799024|376014|38070700018; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: =?us-ascii?Q?78TiYPF70AtNMhC161WijGAGrL/ADEXdW3fqBjUM5qwQ8xdiqZ/bdOGwPIPT?= =?us-ascii?Q?wiDg+SSi2HGRW5j1ZQN4VAkeHeahbjUZKMdYVAMxjLd3PRj7w3lSmZlNM3Nv?= =?us-ascii?Q?YGcV/rhNiXGTh/rV1mqdjrOq/rImAnquXeyrd/qejl8JYZgQHA8DWZ8wSQ7Q?= =?us-ascii?Q?EnSm/ukyA7Nre6QJrBzsU4vn4i/Y3pFc6ECbzGaIuM//izK3ABDng6hovxRO?= =?us-ascii?Q?XuF30wkN01REFlpvlXRz++lzbPOaHQA/BFaR5y7FGs2zYeW6WQ5HPWmLfx1M?= =?us-ascii?Q?9zlVlSuDU53z0xcwrIQsHACxA4Vy5/QcrODQcxzckCYw2DJPjA/bhr8xsmLh?= =?us-ascii?Q?EwP3IGXn9fmzEbFnxNH48kYicv4Awwl2DLzftd/0EtIIeXCeJVeg6t0M7WvO?= =?us-ascii?Q?SAav1ndpjEQHgpZYs9PiMoUEDCvIedat3DUtehZV03kSaXyGh9WiBKLicCUR?= =?us-ascii?Q?QHkSw2ce0vQg/erWB6RgzvI4ckCKtFOk3/ND11ocJOE4B2e3DKj9vFT+kuU2?= =?us-ascii?Q?s6Wc/EkC1Y+iJ1E/x7n7qd1owFou3giIU/iQRDiaglNziBLNsOMNS70YjrD8?= =?us-ascii?Q?SKC1jZgK5I1reJTKMNeKsUjPP/wHqUyDX9c/xSA9tw0Ygb6A4wFKpPxSfAxH?= =?us-ascii?Q?PBGQj3No14kSOKeJj8r1uXGSH+z1dwkXafxLW8qth3C5vs/JwyWRcpflUkc2?= =?us-ascii?Q?X8jdDPPZbgJtDbhmsih354MDY2anHZU5HixokMdhCST/qc/GaZytF0+RQZkM?= =?us-ascii?Q?CzX32vN4uWWsyVciqMUSJw1uUSRcgWDwBSpB9mO8DmnXdf3JocYvlxzWNjIu?= =?us-ascii?Q?VHrYHD82rOciXaqD6eLVtzHBHVnpDec5dLEK2PBZH66l191FzY37AN4R4nwJ?= =?us-ascii?Q?CXK06TCWcPqjV7Dn0yaVMdAGJ2m14ZqSMP+F3p7+TOA6jRZq1pKZW1DGLlRj?= =?us-ascii?Q?kO+UbhpfnPlKTS+NLr7LGJqqCM1vj7Mg6DS7BAPOVicdnq+Z9/9ptBoHu7rz?= =?us-ascii?Q?IGI0VS9yx6ozdMYotyYi2dQ9IVlZy/I5ninH0lkqy8EAbvOynkS1k5yogBGJ?= =?us-ascii?Q?mZnjsdrizZVVojkQ8g1HYYf1VL4C9lriTTeuRVYk3tqvTMVJsW7qJlfcqHvp?= =?us-ascii?Q?FUWYLvT/U54ujEElZFQB/6vh8Wmc6INpiDrBuetxAnJv9Z5YgRNjAEo9mVNr?= =?us-ascii?Q?LY3ilW5KRP7YIqIw1qR0HCLHNW8PfGhJs9Qo9CCF0z9o7gWAbHcjKM6vNx4c?= =?us-ascii?Q?TwOvZSJpDrrjIcOTGhPiE0HZ4QevqROvpiSfL19cL/dhHTVTTYtUGWGdgq1i?= =?us-ascii?Q?o8uqCPOOqynXgNnxNTSGS7fsujeJSCpPYCMHxP4ov5bIvcdTugmJ+N1Rf9Pn?= =?us-ascii?Q?tPquv2p2Krr7B+KJwr3AwGhR+wv9fB/yaXR0yP4C7IhzRxJj5DvLuWvacy3S?= =?us-ascii?Q?xE8cSfvFu33vVVGgqNJz6AjfqJIrwwN0pLPebvVNzaMucdDdo1yxqg=3D=3D?= x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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I already said that it does not say that. It correctly says that "VAR is bound...". The point is that it might not be obvious that VAR can be a defvar; that's all. That users might not be aware of this isn't the end of the world. But it wouldn't hurt to point it out.=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 29 21:59:39 2025 Received: (at 79320) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Aug 2025 01:59:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43874 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1usAsV-0001Yu-2u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2025 21:59:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40518) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1usAsR-0001Xd-3w for 79320@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2025 21:59:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1usAsL-0001KL-1f; Fri, 29 Aug 2025 21:59:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=4MyMWUUVJyRUy9XqYYfUZ4Hx4ToSx6u2oavPe/UAnF0=; b=nFAxqYzi6Fr2 7V+Wubn/bLeMbv0+oqewrW8YJMiLYXxBlgCVv/p7noTFNEP1CAzXg/Js6jsbXTDGFDOG3en7OW/Vg cyJUgJ+U7JArahB3UsPdlrbrdTCOXNwxGq87dfA6lbya7M+hJQDmejQML47dKiSrD/98/hcfj6HvZ Aq929vb7MOIlTFAhYVgSz6YE8NxWHmqI1H0hMbzyA0UqXqhlhP8E2C3JtYbMrl6Jp0Ig+mO49Quh8 1Mk7p6X9+ME+AMRid3dm+UCbJAgHnQEa5ANUpEYe9cgSO8csg30nPH+Tyd9Eb2xA1ALSV1GTojj12 Bbyld75jog0zXJR5BPSpVg==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1usAsK-0001VQ-HM; Fri, 29 Aug 2025 21:59:28 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) Subject: Re: bug#79320: 30.2; Doc of `dolist' References: <86y0r5t2rc.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2025 21:59:28 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79320 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 79320@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I already said that it does not say that. It correctly > says that "VAR is bound...". The point is that it might > not be obvious that VAR can be a defvar; that's all. I agree it would be good to say this explicitly. Explaining consequences that are not obvious is part of what makes for a good manual. Thanks for the suggestion. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 02 09:34:29 2025 Received: (at 79320) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2025 13:34:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33691 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1utR9Y-0003tf-MS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Sep 2025 09:34:29 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([217.72.192.78]:58549) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1utR9R-0003sX-PL for 79320@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Sep 2025 09:34:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1756820050; x=1757424850; i=michael_heerdegen@web.de; bh=gqT/OT+OaAzAj3/uQ3+3wXR7ZIH0RcJj095K9gTOsWE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date: Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=HL3wFm5Lqlj3nLBuIYx6KqbUtZwx0pZ5vyrpWvuUe9zjabFRZnHUJmRHausODTXe wlioOZW19IBRNSdVNNQrkO9iXAC/kKmkY5+RrnYQ4IgEXRRuOnFX1CtGGvZy3HiRB k2UHqHRachheXRyqZQfG5d+y108d4Fbl4YA/tVtj9/IKtYdjTTq/YonWJOR/YO6X0 /vWJqf1vr6nqaKhYDAQnOdN6FPVVgxNuy2GbdL55g7fq62xSE01Pr7kfGtLc4Up4X qlec/S5hfutvw6aYzf0dkoQ5IarYouHhvNV2N6cOFwrE/V9Eu5JFUeL897ePqKZr/ hVUEQRbn6g1eyHsRag== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Received: from drachen.dragon ([88.66.201.1]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb106 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mdf8F-1uKNVr1Qjx-00a8ix; Tue, 02 Sep 2025 15:34:10 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#79320: 30.2; Doc of `dolist' In-Reply-To: <86y0r5t2rc.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86y0r5t2rc.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2025 15:35:50 +0200 Message-ID: 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It's not absolutely trivial what the semantics are. It could be that dolist always created a fresh lexical variable VAR of the same name (although the docstring rather suggests that dolist directly uses the given variable, and not some new variable of the same name of any kind). Anyway, like Richard I think it could be good to add a hint nonetheless because the fact and its consequences are probably not obvious to a lot of users. Michael.