GNU bug report logs - #79042
29.4; dired-get-marked-files docstring is incorrect

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 29.4; dired-get-marked-files docstring is incorrect
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2025 13:47:01 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Visit a directory with Dired, move to any file, and execute
the following code with eval-expression:

  (dired-get-marked-files nil 'marked)

It returns nil, even though the docstring for dired-get-marked-files
says "If ARG is any other [ie, not an integer] non-nil value, return
the current file name."  This is because the ARG argument is
passed to dired-map-over-marks, which interprets the symbol
"marked" in this way.

For context, I was looking for a way to get a list of marked files, or
nil if no files are explicitly marked.  The docstring for
dired-get-marked-files does not admit such a usage, but it actually is
possible, as described above.


In GNU Emacs 29.4 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.41,
 cairo version 1.18.0) of 2025-01-29 built on system76-pc Windowing
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[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #8 received at 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>, "79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org"
 <79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#79042: 29.4; dired-get-marked-files docstring is
 incorrect
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2025 22:42:42 +0000

Good find!

It's not a doc bug, it's a product bug - a regression
introduced in Emacs 29.  In prior versions it works
as the doc says: (dired-get-marked-files nil 'marked)
returns the file name on the current line.

The bug occurs only with symbol `marked' passed as
the second arg.

Message #11 received at 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>, 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: [External] : bug#79042: 29.4;
 dired-get-marked-files docstring is incorrect
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2025 20:39:52 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Thu, Jul 17, 2025 at 3:42 PM Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> wrote:

> Good find!
>
> It's not a doc bug, it's a product bug - a regression
> introduced in Emacs 29.  In prior versions it works
> as the doc says: (dired-get-marked-files nil 'marked)
> returns the file name on the current line.
>

Wait, so dired-get-marked-files isn't *supposed* to be able to distinguish
between
a single explicitly marked file and no files being marked?  But that's
information
that I need.  How do I get it, if not with dired-get-marked-files?

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #14 received at 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>, "79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org"
 <79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#79042: 29.4; dired-get-marked-files docstring is
 incorrect
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2025 16:27:36 +0000

>> It's not a doc bug, it's a product bug - a regression
>> introduced in Emacs 29.  In prior versions it works
>> as the doc says: (dired-get-marked-files nil 'marked)
>> returns the file name on the current line.
>
> Wait, so dired-get-marked-files isn't supposed to be able to 
> distinguish between a single explicitly marked file and no files 
> being marked?  But that's information that I need.
> How do I get it, if not with dired-get-marked-files?

Mea culpa.  I shouldn't have said the Emacs 29+ behavior
of recognizing a special `marked' value for ARG is a bug.
(It's maybe not the best way to allow that behavior, but
it's OK.)

And I guess you're right, that that code change made the
`dired-get-marked-files' doc incorrect.  So your report
is a good one.  Sorry for the noise.

`dired-get-marked-files' is pretty much a utility function
for defining commands, i.e., for interactive use, which is
why it returns the file name of the current line if there
are no explicit marks.

You can use macro `dired-map-over-marks' (in Emacs 29+) to
do what you want:

(defun my-marked-files-list (&optional localp distinguish-one-marked)
  "..."
  (delq nil (save-excursion
              (dired-map-over-marks (dired-get-filename localp 'NO-ERROR)
				              'marked
				              nil
				              distinguish-one-marked))))

Message #17 received at 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: "79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: Re: [External] : bug#79042: 29.4;
 dired-get-marked-files docstring is incorrect
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2025 12:01:20 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Fri, Jul 18, 2025 at 9:27 AM Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> wrote:

> >> It's not a doc bug, it's a product bug - a regression
> >> introduced in Emacs 29.  In prior versions it works
> >> as the doc says: (dired-get-marked-files nil 'marked)
> >> returns the file name on the current line.
> >
> > Wait, so dired-get-marked-files isn't supposed to be able to
> > distinguish between a single explicitly marked file and no files
> > being marked?  But that's information that I need.
> > How do I get it, if not with dired-get-marked-files?
>
> Mea culpa.  I shouldn't have said the Emacs 29+ behavior
> of recognizing a special `marked' value for ARG is a bug.
> (It's maybe not the best way to allow that behavior, but
> it's OK.)
>

I understood, I'm just astonished that the current behavior is
considered a bug, since it seems so useful.  Is there a
compelling reason not to allow dired-get-marked-files to
return nil when no files are explicitly marked, when it's
given a special distinguished value for ARG?  It's a
pattern that's used in many other places.

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #20 received at 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: "79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#79042: 29.4; dired-get-marked-files docstring is
 incorrect
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2025 21:08:12 +0000

> I understood, I'm just astonished that the current behavior
> is considered a bug, since it seems so useful.

As I said, I mistakenly said this new (>= Emacs 29)
behavior is a bug.  As you said at the outset, the
`dired-get-marked-files' doc could/should be updated
to reflect this new behavior.  Other functions that
use `dired-map-over-marks' might also need to have
their doc updated for the ARG description.

> Is there a compelling reason not to allow
> dired-get-marked-files to return nil when no files
> are explicitly marked, when it's given a special
> distinguished value for ARG?  It's a pattern that's
> used in many other places.

I gave a reason why I think it hasn't bothered to
allow that: existing uses of `dired-get-marked-files'
are for _commands_ where it's a _feature_ to pick up
the file name on the current line if ARG isn't an
integer and no lines are explicitly marked.  (And of
course those existing commands haven't provided an
interactive way to get an ARG value of `marked'.)

In sum, I think the doc of `dired-get-marked-files'
was based on its behavior, which was based on the
existing uses of it, which was by commands that had
no particular use for the ARG=`marked' behavior and
provided no way to get such a value interactively.

It's _possible_ that `dired-map-over-marks' was
changed without a lot of thought about all of its
existing or possible new uses.  I don't know.

With Emacs 29 changing `dired-map-over-marks' to
recognize ARG = `marked', the behavior of functions
that use that macro also changes (unless they get
changed to call `dired-map-over-marks' differently).
One such function is `dired-get-marked-files'.

Other functions also use `dired-map-over-marks', in 
`dired.el', `dired-aux.el', `dired-x.el', `ediff.el',
`message.el', and `image-dired-dired.el.  Someone
fixing the doc of `dired-get-marked-files' for this
bug could check their doc strings as well.  (And
similarly for functions that use such functions, if
their own doc describes the same ARG.)

___

FWIW (only related as another change to ARG behavior):

In my own code (Dired+), if argument ARG of 
`dired-get-marked-files' is a cons (e.g. from using
`C-u' with a command that calls it) then it returns
_all_ files, ignoring any marks, as follows:

 If ARG is a cons with element 16, 64, or 256, corresponding to
  `C-u C-u', `C-u C-u C-u', or `C-u C-u C-u C-u', then use all files
  in the Dired buffer, where:
    16 includes NO directories (including `.' and `..')
    64 includes directories EXCEPT `.' and `..'
   256 includes ALL directories (including `.' and `..')

(This is implemented by the Dired+ version of
`dired-map-over-marks'.)

IMO, being able to _keep a set of markings_ and act
on all files is an important, and common, use case.

And now, because of the Emacs 29 `dired-map-over-marks'
change, it has a new possibility: passing it an ARG of
`marked' from Lisp.  (I haven't given users a way to do
that interactively, and probably won't.)

Message #23 received at 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams <at> oracle.com
Subject: Re: bug#79042: 29.4; dired-get-marked-files docstring is incorrect
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 13:06:36 +0300

> Cc: "79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
> From: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2025 12:01:20 -0700
> 
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2025 at 9:27 AM Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> wrote:
> 
>  >> It's not a doc bug, it's a product bug - a regression
>  >> introduced in Emacs 29.  In prior versions it works
>  >> as the doc says: (dired-get-marked-files nil 'marked)
>  >> returns the file name on the current line.
>  >
>  > Wait, so dired-get-marked-files isn't supposed to be able to 
>  > distinguish between a single explicitly marked file and no files 
>  > being marked?  But that's information that I need.
>  > How do I get it, if not with dired-get-marked-files?

You could call dired-get-marked-files with nil ARG and then with ARG
equal to 'marked', and compare the results.

>  Mea culpa.  I shouldn't have said the Emacs 29+ behavior
>  of recognizing a special `marked' value for ARG is a bug.
>  (It's maybe not the best way to allow that behavior, but
>  it's OK.)
> 
> I understood, I'm just astonished that the current behavior is
> considered a bug, since it seems so useful.  Is there a
> compelling reason not to allow dired-get-marked-files to
> return nil when no files are explicitly marked, when it's
> given a special distinguished value for ARG?  It's a
> pattern that's used in many other places.

The previous behavior wasn't a bug.  The new special value of 'marked'
was introduced in support of the new user option
dired-mouse-drag-files, which needs to distinguish between the two
cases.  Since the special value 'marked' is new in Emacs 29, and used
only in a couple of places, I don't understand why you are saying that
it's "a pattern that's used in many other places".  How could that be
true?  Is there perhaps a misunderstanding here?  What are the
specific practical problems you encountered with this new feature?

Your original report said:

> For context, I was looking for a way to get a list of marked files, or
> nil if no files are explicitly marked.  The docstring for
> dired-get-marked-files does not admit such a usage, but it actually is
> possible, as described above.

This is explicitly possible using this new value.  So I'm not sure
what other issues did you have in this regard.

In any case, I've updated (on the emacs-30 release branch) the doc
strings of the relevant functions with the effect of the special value
'marked'.  I think this is all we need to do in this bug.

Message #26 received at 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams <at> oracle.com
Subject: Re: bug#79042: 29.4; dired-get-marked-files docstring is incorrect
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2025 13:47:41 -0700

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On Sat, Jul 19, 2025 at 3:06 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:

> The previous behavior wasn't a bug.  The new special value of 'marked'
> was introduced in support of the new user option
> dired-mouse-drag-files, which needs to distinguish between the two
> cases.  Since the special value 'marked' is new in Emacs 29, and used
> only in a couple of places, I don't understand why you are saying that
> it's "a pattern that's used in many other places".  How could that be
> true?


The pattern I mentioned is that of a function modifying its behavior
if it receives a "special distinguished value" for an argument; for
example, an argument that is usually an integer may also be some
special symbol value.

Look, long story short, when the first response said the report was
"not a doc bug," I interpreted that to mean that the current docstring
is correct, and dired-map-over-marks is not meant to do anything
special if given the symbol "marked" for ARG, since the docstring
doesn't mention it.  The second response still seemed somewhat
ambiguous to me, since it offered a function my-marked-files-list
that I could use instead of dired-get-marked-files.  Why would I
want or need that, if the functionality of dired-get-marked-files
weren't going to change?

In any case, I've updated (on the emacs-30 release branch) the doc
> strings of the relevant functions with the effect of the special value
> 'marked'.  I think this is all we need to do in this bug.
>

Yes!  Thank you!  That is exactly what I wanted and expected to
happen when I filed my bug.

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Message #29 received at 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams <at> oracle.com
Subject: Re: bug#79042: 29.4; dired-get-marked-files docstring is incorrect
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2025 14:10:17 +0300

> From: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2025 13:47:41 -0700
> Cc: drew.adams <at> oracle.com, 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On Sat, Jul 19, 2025 at 3:06 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> 
>  The previous behavior wasn't a bug.  The new special value of 'marked'
>  was introduced in support of the new user option
>  dired-mouse-drag-files, which needs to distinguish between the two
>  cases.  Since the special value 'marked' is new in Emacs 29, and used
>  only in a couple of places, I don't understand why you are saying that
>  it's "a pattern that's used in many other places".  How could that be
>  true?
> 
> The pattern I mentioned is that of a function modifying its behavior
> if it receives a "special distinguished value" for an argument; for
> example, an argument that is usually an integer may also be some
> special symbol value.
> 
> Look, long story short, when the first response said the report was
> "not a doc bug," I interpreted that to mean that the current docstring
> is correct, and dired-map-over-marks is not meant to do anything
> special if given the symbol "marked" for ARG, since the docstring
> doesn't mention it.  The second response still seemed somewhat
> ambiguous to me, since it offered a function my-marked-files-list
> that I could use instead of dired-get-marked-files.  Why would I
> want or need that, if the functionality of dired-get-marked-files
> weren't going to change?

I'm sorry about the confusion.  I understood that Drew was trying to
help you by showing a variant of an existing function which could
maybe solve a different use case.

>  In any case, I've updated (on the emacs-30 release branch) the doc
>  strings of the relevant functions with the effect of the special value
>  'marked'.  I think this is all we need to do in this bug.
> 
> Yes!  Thank you!  That is exactly what I wanted and expected to
> happen when I filed my bug.

OK, so I guess we can now close this bug?

Message #32 received at 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams <at> oracle.com
Subject: Re: bug#79042: 29.4; dired-get-marked-files docstring is incorrect
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2025 13:56:44 -0700

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On Mon, Jul 21, 2025 at 4:10 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:

> OK, so I guess we can now close this bug?
>

Sounds good to me!

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Message #37 received at 79042-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: drew.adams <at> oracle.com, 79042-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#79042: 29.4; dired-get-marked-files docstring is incorrect
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2025 15:46:25 +0300

> From: Sean McAfee <eefacm <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2025 13:56:44 -0700
> Cc: drew.adams <at> oracle.com, 79042 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2025 at 4:10 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> 
>  OK, so I guess we can now close this bug?
> 
> Sounds good to me!

Thanks, done.

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