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Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([72.85.185.24]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d75a77b69052e-4a779d4e637sm13249111cf.12.2025.06.20.14.26.55 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:26:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Howard Melman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie Message-Id: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 17:26:44 -0400 To: GNU Emacs X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::82b; envelope-from=hmelman@gmail.com; helo=mail-qt1-x82b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) fileloop-continue is now the recommended way to continue a few different kinds of searches (tags-search, project-search, dired-do-search, flavors of query-replace, etc. I understand that it will be available when called because some other (autoloaded) fileloop command would have been called and would load the file, but I think it should be autoloaded because I think it will be easier for people to bind it and IIUC could remove 4 declare-function calls in emacs source. This came up because I made a transient for project commands and included project-search and wanted to include a way to continue the search, but when running it I got the following error. transient-setup: Suffix command fileloop-continue is not defined or autoloaded So I could add my own autoload for it but I don't think I should have to. In GNU Emacs 30.1.50 (build 1, aarch64-apple-darwin24.5.0, Carbon Version 170 AppKit 2575.6) of 2025-06-01 built on Calvin Windowing system distributor 'Apple Inc.', version 15.5.0 System Description: macOS 15.5 -- Howard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 21 03:16:43 2025 Received: (at 78851) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jun 2025 07:16:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60423 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uSsSx-0006K5-BQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 03:16:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49198) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uSsSu-0006Iu-5U for 78851@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 03:16:41 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uSsSo-0006jB-PN; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 03:16:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=cKsB/uQSjqEbuk9NaWZ9LEPeESbhbiwv7uXjq+ZrhU4=; b=XHBoQ4ujAiV1 ZWPWsg4hpLn0pNRTFg5a2fem8iFC89U1slNUOf/dDHazgeNJnIIAUtmMkpfMN5VDUqNda6PEkL6tm RS04hQlx6XfFyXNoNnhg8dNGWRuX4a5WanICJVBcaUIA/qXoOra/KzoeGGaOvKvdcQUxJ4y6H9gB0 4hOPBf3JZrHTBmXDvf+rEqZHS57xAdVjunyg2kAS9MjCRvomSBJfG4rVtknvcKALb3B767oRhliKp 66c+ZxpaPyoJyfFZCxHAcUudBAvcKT7KdKRkumTYllQ88hZXxVULu6xi8ONmzNGi8Aon9Zy9h1jfl MjH8nPPFdyB7ZuhG90xssA==; Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 10:16:31 +0300 Message-Id: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: (message from Howard Melman on Fri, 20 Jun 2025 17:26:44 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#78851: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78851 Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Howard Melman > Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 17:26:44 -0400 > > > > fileloop-continue is now the recommended way to continue a > few different kinds of searches (tags-search, > project-search, dired-do-search, flavors of query-replace, > etc. > > I understand that it will be available when called because > some other (autoloaded) fileloop command would have been > called and would load the file, but I think it should be > autoloaded because I think it will be easier for people to > bind it and IIUC could remove 4 declare-function calls in > emacs source. > > This came up because I made a transient for project commands > and included project-search and wanted to include a way to > continue the search, but when running it I got the following error. > > transient-setup: Suffix command fileloop-continue is not > defined or autoloaded > > So I could add my own autoload for it but I don't think I > should have to. Why not? We will definitely not autoload every possible command in Emacs, so some of them will sometimes need a 'require' or an 'autoload'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 21 09:58:06 2025 Received: (at 78851) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jun 2025 13:58:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39788 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uSyjN-0000pD-Rp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 09:58:06 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-x736.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::736]:60664) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uSyjI-0000nJ-9a for 78851@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 09:58:03 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-x736.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7c5675dec99so363627085a.0 for <78851@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 06:58:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1750514274; x=1751119074; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=NzNTTwTw18o76GtwdZrzj7WmQRvdI3OZ4WQuo79WOeQ=; b=FMYjNYXXMlKYXOoQouiB29mAZ//lX2iFsBvKHkCxgfB8dbnFUxUouNWnwJcDATN/M5 n2S488NAAq7FVag51ZRP+DmAv3ElogrdQmsgdaThV8fJeC0HGFRLvla5ocIySGdpe/Vl QagIB4Zbacdrko5wlXWRL+PWXp7+gVE4m0Upu/BoAwBD4olCKBbPnBNrWqbPjqNNB84Z ot8ZduL9SqZJMm2nAbY5CutfCxRDV2/1Ssfs5HTtQzb/OHZvfhFz3w2MtjRY70CrjwFO kSoQmnJAPlLFRPyWEomFoSVPCVz9n6ezsVaRFNH5O0EAAgP5QfCrLY9OR0PQ105i2y+C jopQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1750514274; x=1751119074; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=NzNTTwTw18o76GtwdZrzj7WmQRvdI3OZ4WQuo79WOeQ=; b=b2dUcCdDk1EIkv9JsieC3RsY7DDnRCTHFrVjEyUMjtZM6TYcR/n2RHRjA7hmPwhcMX w/fKqtFvQDvzBpW/Vp7473XhxvrITj/u1XO5FsJhmTaoLuvqePVdkBdu/iGCnzpXFRTQ s14U0RpIL48FIJE48IfSCOTiXEiLeWvs6ldvIq7x4vjkwe6PJ67VJnktRYcEcFfV9hG9 +SLnLS75yheau0yF/dZ/YaUVprcbwChceYiXhhUpyeYAhcLDVF4/9e9BORRtplzR575B Ig3c75geVhJJ+A+j/yaKu/ff4ac8Gy2Enf3NCFr6kqZ/NV+sUu6+WJVLDFRrLlIN18DR w6Fg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyGMuf4XqlabOSg5GpLx9JMa8n18h3Ijwt/3CpbpnmZR/3riFjC Psdt/O1F5nLn4+fJc77/kjEpvPTYDDIkx5HtjEGSOewrlRczvVPbmhcL X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncu7dW9Fa3mHolrhaZRdX7QQk5XbTbjKHGdseEO2iSTZcxZxE/nTDvUKvcyMkLQ e4ewpdS5k2gtbeB4nmUwHlR6CKfCDxwy2XyPus24j4FXHk5kpHojwbLF7fL2ZT/saKUMAhFpYmx 17s3+mFGwNPjwaRVCh7mxYkUxk8iddT03zwpnDhVYWyisYMdfHHiSzrRY5rREHAByzUDZvto5Gc Ypi2vjd6/w2fvIUqeRS1G/vENIal1duub6rhgRN9/k5S+7fA4YAvRSbLDnMeOKEHtSBIlPlD51Z YSK/aAl6kCoqS0H2u2G81vwoCpHnmXoaOi6YUjXMdpE+Xng8SGhlEVBIi0i7xLGvMoSvousNBA= = X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEQ0WmHYZkSbbZ5P8JfXcaJtAMvZJtA8W1agOIuGua1LaxMrQFqd4UmgY0tCMXEwR4OeNL38g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:470b:b0:7d3:ed55:c92b with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7d3f99467bfmr840848085a.38.1750514272356; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 06:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([72.85.185.24]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d75a77b69052e-4a779d9f998sm19533511cf.34.2025.06.21.06.57.51 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 21 Jun 2025 06:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: bug#78851: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie From: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 09:57:41 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78851 Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > On Jun 21, 2025, at 3:16=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii = wrote: >=20 >> From: Howard Melman >> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 17:26:44 -0400 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> fileloop-continue is now the recommended way to continue a >> few different kinds of searches (tags-search, >> project-search, dired-do-search, flavors of query-replace, >> etc.=20 >>=20 >> I understand that it will be available when called because >> some other (autoloaded) fileloop command would have been >> called and would load the file, but I think it should be >> autoloaded because I think it will be easier for people to >> bind it and IIUC could remove 4 declare-function calls in >> emacs source. >>=20 >> This came up because I made a transient for project commands >> and included project-search and wanted to include a way to >> continue the search, but when running it I got the following error. >>=20 >> transient-setup: Suffix command fileloop-continue is not >> defined or autoloaded >>=20 >> So I could add my own autoload for it but I don't think I >> should have to. >=20 > Why not? We will definitely not autoload every possible command in > Emacs, so some of them will sometimes need a 'require' or an > 'autoload'. I thought I had given enough reasons above, but here's another: tags-loop-continue was and still is autoloaded. I would expect it's replacement to be treated the same way, particularly since it has more uses. Howard= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 21 10:22:53 2025 Received: (at 78851) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jun 2025 14:22:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40373 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uSz7M-0003J2-WA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 10:22:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53172) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uSz7I-0003HZ-D7 for 78851@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 10:22:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uSz7C-0001Ze-Lo; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 10:22:42 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=Az5uADpu7lg0hJ/YVz4/bNsEMlP+ttbqdYQT10bifmk=; b=VQk97O7WPt5otRbODd/s wwoRlVhU2b3cJTYfhYugO+Jz42qU6YHfHa+wU9R2nILJPoiP5Ep+aF4QWIrnd1+sEgccm71kNDRAZ 9H7zlU+wdjJtfZWze8R01P0tG0uPY3b5yWqFs3PcLibsbwF0mKQWLjzB8fYMQPfGNFG6BtcKwW6MR 1rlCNNcLUTOq2LG0vFNa6DvfauYn80c3Gdoj6D0GlPzATvZ/ACpBqLkWjMjbBL25GIwyufvIPqPUa HhV8a4TMuj0eyzzmYTTcM3WY0NEWZz7njGiLWW4fLWdXTV1rsBD+TSzJa7vXMbNN2pK0lyrmCqQix Y/QRSOFQ0gSR8Q==; Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 17:22:40 +0300 Message-Id: <86sejti37z.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: (message from Howard Melman on Sat, 21 Jun 2025 09:57:41 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#78851: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie References: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78851 Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Howard Melman > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 09:57:41 -0400 > Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > > On Jun 21, 2025, at 3:16 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > >> From: Howard Melman > >> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 17:26:44 -0400 > >> > >> > >> > >> fileloop-continue is now the recommended way to continue a > >> few different kinds of searches (tags-search, > >> project-search, dired-do-search, flavors of query-replace, > >> etc. > >> > >> I understand that it will be available when called because > >> some other (autoloaded) fileloop command would have been > >> called and would load the file, but I think it should be > >> autoloaded because I think it will be easier for people to > >> bind it and IIUC could remove 4 declare-function calls in > >> emacs source. > >> > >> This came up because I made a transient for project commands > >> and included project-search and wanted to include a way to > >> continue the search, but when running it I got the following error. > >> > >> transient-setup: Suffix command fileloop-continue is not > >> defined or autoloaded > >> > >> So I could add my own autoload for it but I don't think I > >> should have to. > > > > Why not? We will definitely not autoload every possible command in > > Emacs, so some of them will sometimes need a 'require' or an > > 'autoload'. > > I thought I had given enough reasons above, but here's another: > tags-loop-continue was and still is autoloaded. I would expect > it's replacement to be treated the same way, particularly since it > has more uses. Sorry, I'm not convinced. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 21 10:28:22 2025 Received: (at 78851) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jun 2025 14:28:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40533 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uSzCg-0003sc-Gh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 10:28:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43332) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uSzCd-0003ra-36 for 78851@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 10:28:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uSzCW-0005ez-E7; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 10:28:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=zUayAquAHC6Ihd0pAXWfmQwifBDYddPFk4usWetE5w0=; b=OkYLzk2EqoSb c4WdIjGFkwiBTLoVpEjj+/Z/Y7MyTqzNCzrpiUAdyOG5fguzjPp/22Sk/KvDliIVXQJxJ3Jp+L9zG btDN5v8wEf/o8zoacbVID9Q67OTdQOrWXpCU1Wnf/gFDUjDq8AhHfO2FbGQ7BqtXOe4whClhrMqdX IuO8rtbZfdGWfl6KxxkslANli3BfLz0xTgh7s3xHk1Y5Ps7UzOxXFoeNyOrLKB+1oTq5ujgzZPrp3 9er/BhmEUavVs3IRi696Mr/F0d/jsp/e6lfxd0RZv4tIxTxUII3JvV4M2e1Gr25w4mqS0983esjry wN/SzGQurtgdrK5U6FGvbw==; Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 17:28:08 +0300 Message-Id: <86qzzdi2yv.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: hmelman@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <86sejti37z.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sat, 21 Jun 2025 17:22:40 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#78851: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie References: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> <86sejti37z.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78851 Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 17:22:40 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > > > >> This came up because I made a transient for project commands > > >> and included project-search and wanted to include a way to > > >> continue the search, but when running it I got the following error. > > >> > > >> transient-setup: Suffix command fileloop-continue is not > > >> defined or autoloaded > > >> > > >> So I could add my own autoload for it but I don't think I > > >> should have to. > > > > > > Why not? We will definitely not autoload every possible command in > > > Emacs, so some of them will sometimes need a 'require' or an > > > 'autoload'. > > > > I thought I had given enough reasons above, but here's another: > > tags-loop-continue was and still is autoloaded. I would expect > > it's replacement to be treated the same way, particularly since it > > has more uses. > > Sorry, I'm not convinced. Btw, I don't think I even understand your original situation, since project-search does this: (defun project-search (regexp) "Search for REGEXP in all the files of the project. Stops when a match is found. To continue searching for the next match, use the command \\[fileloop-continue]." (interactive "sSearch (regexp): ") (fileloop-initialize-search regexp (project-files (project-current t)) 'default) (fileloop-continue)) and fileloop-initialize-search is autoloaded, so it ought to load fileloop.el. Thus, I cannot understand how come the following call to fileloop-continue signaled an error. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 21 11:50:46 2025 Received: (at 78851) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jun 2025 15:50:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42601 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uT0UP-0003kM-Fu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 11:50:45 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-x730.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::730]:49591) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uT0UM-0003jj-3c for 78851@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 11:50:43 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-x730.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7d402c901cbso83520485a.3 for <78851@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 08:50:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1750521036; x=1751125836; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Dz2P68AzWlw67UCnY0Q5wvEoVV7wRpvCcXgPxFX8ipg=; b=dggW+vxK7wC02wO5h2n2UK8RWnJsmDInriVfbLjO4l6NwTXoKk2Ief+nXLpkQsHW4i SYjpGioTUL9jNX5qXl8p+BxzhqHHcgucADp1NOk9psy1ZNFfiqd0tiU53/Z8tQgtSMDf Ya+8CQ+nKLgpRf33vo0sTIzNYMIowk5QNj9q/zuAcJqkNEKZXv4KenYiGncAyrMV/gFO PbyFZO2SWmF0nZJ6NaKv22xULlaQFBz943SLp+OJ3/DN2PHUoxXpG6XwZntuw3Sa+RCh lAMguvNFvUmMisgb0jkIeljnCwRTjuv9KoOBVx9ks8jNCQ1cJHuleMIhRgld0Fo2ntcg 0LNg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1750521036; x=1751125836; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Dz2P68AzWlw67UCnY0Q5wvEoVV7wRpvCcXgPxFX8ipg=; b=JjXQ6iAFm6Kc0cS3iOQ1knOyJFagg2Qi5/lYJs3+Lrx+llAZr51YXetBVJZ/ZbJMcc Qw4wT97xrmMafJXy25mL/6y2vm38qRM+lHzObm3GBx8mJfmCEFAtfzz1ga1e2xV2dfdR NelvzoCM6t/p94C7/tSBA1Ocn+4Ywvg4Ec/NjeH35CuROBeJcqAdymFiqEt1nf1Bazkp zn1s46A+9XuD9rQZ15si5bupVMaaiGAXB/h0HZxT+FyEcN6ICLeeTIbmT+sR1A9F4GfG gcGAlXwLKvxUUia/aY6Qfa8J1yxBMsm3VLNa0Xb/cdHl9uSA5RNj3adKgKHQa+JldFqp JKmA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwJP7KfUr9u/tdUjdbFr79A6xC+ErFMmr/n1EalORlN0ks/oRoC FXCKXCNZVmAAEFzywVQLLvChzmrLPZitBFViGcmkcsHnX8v45fUjSwNt X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct3VDSD/iIGykIIqDboqVUREleOh8sn6L6HmL+sXjCPVenFVzjC/wEqZ3NIjtp CUprZGWujtmiJgRaP7Rbx9exDilCzZ7jlkqrXkfZlS917u0XFV2wH4fz+kd7PV3PYsg2ihuSUHY KLbJTfnaS5fhFC0wbVrsbBC+NOQvDlCk3le4HYNT5vTrUCgCZbG/KYGJY6iuerscH+7xjm9GfSU 3TiTd3ERTUiquLcCNI9cu1enYJyfkgMW5PlnJAR/qXhFSKpUs67nkmIAtZCJrK+7yhsoKyvr8Ct ZP5XH0pVh6J7K1rK/kH5VCfG1gRC42GB9oMRNWj+WMfg+zc0ygPdI+b/VODlCnVuneSGqPPeWg= = X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFaQsj9uaqktARJDgugtt1b8x1njebSodskHWdzB537+kchLoIGqvkrFxOASP3mbecgJ4DMoA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4392:b0:7c0:c469:d651 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7d3f9952d9cmr883085085a.57.1750521036182; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 08:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([72.85.185.24]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7d3f99a6724sm205405685a.41.2025.06.21.08.50.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 21 Jun 2025 08:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: bug#78851: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie From: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <86qzzdi2yv.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 11:50:24 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3AA28E11-4574-4E5B-A4B9-2A38362B3B38@gmail.com> References: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> <86sejti37z.fsf@gnu.org> <86qzzdi2yv.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78851 Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > On Jun 21, 2025, at 10:28=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii = wrote: >=20 >> Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 17:22:40 +0300 >> From: Eli Zaretskii >>=20 >>>>> This came up because I made a transient for project commands >>>>> and included project-search and wanted to include a way to >>>>> continue the search, but when running it I got the following = error. >>>>>=20 >>>>> transient-setup: Suffix command fileloop-continue is not >>>>> defined or autoloaded >>>>>=20 >>>>> So I could add my own autoload for it but I don't think I >>>>> should have to. >>>>=20 >>>> Why not? We will definitely not autoload every possible command in >>>> Emacs, so some of them will sometimes need a 'require' or an >>>> 'autoload'. >>>=20 >>> I thought I had given enough reasons above, but here's another: >>> tags-loop-continue was and still is autoloaded. I would expect >>> it's replacement to be treated the same way, particularly since it >>> has more uses. >>=20 >> Sorry, I'm not convinced. >=20 > Btw, I don't think I even understand your original situation, since > project-search does this: >=20 > (defun project-search (regexp) > "Search for REGEXP in all the files of the project. > Stops when a match is found. > To continue searching for the next match, use the > command \\[fileloop-continue]." > (interactive "sSearch (regexp): ") > (fileloop-initialize-search > regexp > (project-files (project-current t)) > 'default) > (fileloop-continue)) >=20 > and fileloop-initialize-search is autoloaded, so it ought to load > fileloop.el. Thus, I cannot understand how come the following call to > fileloop-continue signaled an error. As I said, it was when running my transient, not the command. I have a transient like this (some stuff elided) bound to s-j: (transient-define-prefix hrm-project-transient () "Project commands from project-prefix-map" ["Project Commands" ["Search" ("g" "Grep" project-find-regexp) ("G" "Grep Ext" project-or-external-find-regexp) ("r" "Query Replace" project-query-replace-regexp) ("M-g" "Search" project-search) ; an unbound sequential = find-regexp ("M-n" "Search Next" fileloop-continue) ] ]) After startup, typing s-j causes the error previously reported. Could you say why you are not convinced? Howard= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 21 14:53:38 2025 Received: (at 78851) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jun 2025 18:53:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43174 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uT3LM-0007I5-Pp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 14:53:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42382) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uT3LI-0007GP-Fc for 78851@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 14:53:33 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uT3LD-00089X-1J; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 14:53:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=i6c7Rcbq0PLEOam27EGudFRWvP+FC1tzwI2cMuSHScY=; b=FjMElXcbo/cH 1MqhZbAT46/5iSjUHCcI55eA94YqPtfg9NSFDUbLE9qB0RTuuvYrG6SPLSJBfsaz8sc3ePQMYQwrs nr6nHk9stMVtfsZhYykSU62I4zY6N3NSYcvZSZJx5wB2ZKprVxZ0QOAJd9XBd1o2rUeFkebnLM2sE eeWs5J/XMk//sth8T9ZT/RkLHB7gliUlLEj5xo8UlCPoBKwZZbvTGpP6372V2am90tzcFyml/tqfn 0LKgoCiw7/YBVtWZ7AQY21PQQp+62tTxzIKZCyWvMHJ1PavxvJ9lYrAifSv3TCBcqh5acCdaHm0WA u/6IWfLGR6AS+3Ff/4pMng==; Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 21:53:24 +0300 Message-Id: <86o6uhhqor.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <3AA28E11-4574-4E5B-A4B9-2A38362B3B38@gmail.com> (message from Howard Melman on Sat, 21 Jun 2025 11:50:24 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#78851: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie References: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> <86sejti37z.fsf@gnu.org> <86qzzdi2yv.fsf@gnu.org> <3AA28E11-4574-4E5B-A4B9-2A38362B3B38@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78851 Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Howard Melman > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 11:50:24 -0400 > Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Btw, I don't think I even understand your original situation, since > > project-search does this: > > > > (defun project-search (regexp) > > "Search for REGEXP in all the files of the project. > > Stops when a match is found. > > To continue searching for the next match, use the > > command \\[fileloop-continue]." > > (interactive "sSearch (regexp): ") > > (fileloop-initialize-search > > regexp > > (project-files (project-current t)) > > 'default) > > (fileloop-continue)) > > > > and fileloop-initialize-search is autoloaded, so it ought to load > > fileloop.el. Thus, I cannot understand how come the following call to > > fileloop-continue signaled an error. > > As I said, it was when running my transient, not the command. > I have a transient like this (some stuff elided) bound to s-j: > > (transient-define-prefix hrm-project-transient () > "Project commands from project-prefix-map" > ["Project Commands" > ["Search" > ("g" "Grep" project-find-regexp) > ("G" "Grep Ext" project-or-external-find-regexp) > ("r" "Query Replace" project-query-replace-regexp) > ("M-g" "Search" project-search) ; an unbound sequential find-regexp > ("M-n" "Search Next" fileloop-continue) > ] > ]) > > After startup, typing s-j causes the error previously reported. Isn't that a bug in transient.el? Binding a key to a command doesn't require that the command be loaded: $ emacs -Q M-: (define-key global-map [f8] 'fileloop-continue) RET => fileloop-continue C-h c F8 => runs the command fileloop-continue M-: (fboundp 'fileloop-continue) RET => nil Why does transient signal an error in this case? > Could you say why you are not convinced? Because by that logic we will be asked to autoload every single command, and that's definitely wrong. Some customizations rightfully need you to autoload or 'require' the corresponding package, and that's alright. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 21 21:52:28 2025 Received: (at 78851) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jun 2025 01:52:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45124 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uT9sh-00078p-KG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 21:52:27 -0400 Received: from mail-qv1-xf2b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2b]:61565) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uT9se-00077y-89 for 78851@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 21:52:25 -0400 Received: by mail-qv1-xf2b.google.com with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6faf66905baso46408616d6.2 for <78851@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 18:52:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1750557138; x=1751161938; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=FV404Cx1rBfgiThPEYNhJFvOSknanOnQBcO9TKk0lYE=; b=hp6NFHpGzKsUTAptIVh6haIUYr4sapxiiv8P6Jbkx/AsdXWSwsqEl/eeAYzWM9PuaU MV7uRu4lbSvJwoBoptSpwhCKT6oQt1bbJmtWEXz3vr4SloayxmQ814cxWY/wUyu7JkQF W4vmHZk9iZ7V/NfExhoYqsjDJ95vmRXHNqfalYw90Lge0GlZby5IItHBQvD8er/MhHkX gqTEWzuBoXrU0n0whyIZQVk+WtGsCIdFySESqqd3B5ec2Zi/tssusFwic4hSTQIXoC4A Un4+huT5W5CCm3j37TVCMC/MhDTBJD58haVeqCh6QCSx88OhvLlccoY4q2RGI87vLK91 pKZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1750557138; x=1751161938; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=FV404Cx1rBfgiThPEYNhJFvOSknanOnQBcO9TKk0lYE=; b=ObZhXWCuOgXO6PXLM/UUpp1rsSc6l7UTxVpJJNHF9BfEAw/hT4hMulskTs8SbpqKji uMHSzidh7Vl08p1I4M/XZyDct8GcLzekuOzWFv/bhUnxYNYF2wCnIC4VWzlHCvVJuhy7 evSCilzRgfYcmdRXwibJRZI9VDPAuQenyoudErf6j35Fls6/bCVg5c6cOpuAQEHZN4CP w0g91bDTFgnCQ7Ez4m0IP7CAX4DMp0ziZsmpMHSkgTI+celI+7g313VCqDHAi1yOFVxH /zGKwDdiUM6vbpF7od+r2+yqJo4xmhOG9xWHDXINLoc14b3lrVel7V9kJytwAIB4P2B0 5zcg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzZ8hnw8hVOzsKahZXqgzlDdSGh67XDfM3x//TTy45RekTuVzIn nGR1fzk5jjnfiRdL+Me5nMFVLnM8Ie8hMKUADLgX2ualQcWLCXGjNskD X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctXC8BAaV0ifwxMAZquou2uIl4ullBobheUF0iDMItSVDN0DAhzKW5o/540INJ ly/mSCyw73aqFRgGET3qR7HrAMH7790mPtITCmv8dCygS/JpHhhwsNvrKJ+zCZsVIkGjEm8bU1B qy+iZE8e1Mbb0JkxfcVVT4a2CaABgXpXZ0eKm/nuHBmGbE8f5/vneR85KDbTIhOgeTzHWduTXUS DzHcluFUQq5P+EZRlMdLTz212EHs4uvKlFUYx2PJISSL/tfeEUt00GsRArl6i9rxRp7r+nCdSb/ YVju2siU9EPrEoGiip8nJrFy8Eh1/JlXnmFhUNXn8qWnM08J4TZLwhPgq/l92enHa5neG2VC9g= = X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG6H9mbWN+w3coyvkoGc0O+0qV8ly2xuTKtaTyUpikKaXHrn0/OmFa6/tezAG8CMDXitDITrA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:3d0f:b0:6fa:fc96:d10a with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6fd0a531db6mr149256266d6.27.1750557138353; Sat, 21 Jun 2025 18:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([72.85.185.24]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6a1803df08f44-6fd0945932csm29235706d6.46.2025.06.21.18.52.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 21 Jun 2025 18:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: bug#78851: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie From: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <3AA28E11-4574-4E5B-A4B9-2A38362B3B38@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 21:52:06 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> <86sejti37z.fsf@gnu.org> <86qzzdi2yv.fsf@gnu.org> <3AA28E11-4574-4E5B-A4B9-2A38362B3B38@gmail.com> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78851 Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Jun 21, 2025, at 2:53=E2=80=AFPM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 >> From: Howard Melman >> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 11:50:24 -0400 >> Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org >>=20 >> As I said, it was when running my transient, not the command. >> I have a transient like this (some stuff elided) bound to s-j: >>=20 >> (transient-define-prefix hrm-project-transient () >> "Project commands from project-prefix-map" >> ["Project Commands" >> ["Search" >> ("g" "Grep" project-find-regexp) >> ("G" "Grep Ext" project-or-external-find-regexp) >> ("r" "Query Replace" project-query-replace-regexp) >> ("M-g" "Search" project-search) ; an unbound sequential = find-regexp >> ("M-n" "Search Next" fileloop-continue) >> ] >> ]) >>=20 >> After startup, typing s-j causes the error previously reported. >=20 > Isn't that a bug in transient.el? Binding a key to a command doesn't > require that the command be loaded: >=20 > $ emacs -Q >=20 > M-: (define-key global-map [f8] 'fileloop-continue) RET > =3D> fileloop-continue > C-h c F8 > =3D> runs the command fileloop-continue > M-: (fboundp 'fileloop-continue) RET > =3D> nil >=20 > Why does transient signal an error in this case? Could be, I don't know. >> Could you say why you are not convinced? >=20 > Because by that logic we will be asked to autoload every single > command, and that's definitely wrong. Some customizations rightfully > need you to autoload or 'require' the corresponding package, and > that's alright. I get the slippery slope argument, but I don't have an understanding of=20= which customizations can get an autoload vs which don't deserve one. My argument for why this does isn't because they all should, it's = because it's the approved replacement for a command that does, and in fact for more (similar) commands, and because it would save 4 = declare-function calls currently in emacs source which seems like it meets some = threshold. I admit I'd care less if transient didn't signal an error. Howard= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 22 01:45:55 2025 Received: (at 78851) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jun 2025 05:45:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46231 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uTDWd-0002Si-1t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jun 2025 01:45:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39516) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uTDWa-0002SS-8l for 78851@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jun 2025 01:45:52 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uTDW3-0007w5-S2; Sun, 22 Jun 2025 01:45:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=iXjW8Pdrom0jhmT3aCu/2BfOCUyRuFAXOkG/aJUgyMc=; b=C/9BKYbshbGUIb/fMkGJ kCGs4Zn5Oxq5Yyr5xcUBB6b+9JLRTwD/Lm0aIQtzqi1WQ15KIdzHf0adr7yroCe7mYDWfGjjMja1H uv516hHMbtL8Xw/PDF4pspPqpAznOrLSSpm4I9LtabySY9cm8vIrSPy4HIl0LbWiA6Fa62jq9siDm 3ueh9jQ1wX5m3HREqPCjUz41egpebP1sZiiIx+sXHJgDDdV1fKkvWT8ikeVR0egILovsVjMVM2RqA 1c8ShuT7hMOwYyDkrYFCtzj7tQVPKpUO5K8icpDzG+MbI6+vfuiv2e312QT+NStfF2cGuZUFv/hkK zCs6bM74qM6o8A==; Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 08:44:53 +0300 Message-Id: <86y0tkgwiy.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Howard Melman , Jonas Bernoulli In-Reply-To: (message from Howard Melman on Sat, 21 Jun 2025 21:52:06 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#78851: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie References: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> <86sejti37z.fsf@gnu.org> <86qzzdi2yv.fsf@gnu.org> <3AA28E11-4574-4E5B-A4B9-2A38362B3B38@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78851 Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Howard Melman > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 21:52:06 -0400 > Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org > > On Jun 21, 2025, at 2:53 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > >> After startup, typing s-j causes the error previously reported. > > > > Isn't that a bug in transient.el? Binding a key to a command doesn't > > require that the command be loaded: > > > > $ emacs -Q > > > > M-: (define-key global-map [f8] 'fileloop-continue) RET > > => fileloop-continue > > C-h c F8 > > => runs the command fileloop-continue > > M-: (fboundp 'fileloop-continue) RET > > => nil > > > > Why does transient signal an error in this case? > > Could be, I don't know. Jonas, any comments? > >> Could you say why you are not convinced? > > > > Because by that logic we will be asked to autoload every single > > command, and that's definitely wrong. Some customizations rightfully > > need you to autoload or 'require' the corresponding package, and > > that's alright. > > I get the slippery slope argument, but I don't have an understanding of > which customizations can get an autoload vs which don't deserve one. It's very simple: if the naïve customization signals an error about a symbol that is unbound, you need to either autoload the offending symbol or 'require' its package. This has been always this way in Emacs, nothing new here. > My argument for why this does isn't because they all should, it's because > it's the approved replacement for a command that does, and in fact > for more (similar) commands, and because it would save 4 declare-function > calls currently in emacs source which seems like it meets some threshold. tags-loop-continue and tags-search in general were implemented differently, so arguments like this are not convincing enough, sorry. > I admit I'd care less if transient didn't signal an error. Agreed. Let's see what Jonas thinks about this. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 05 03:32:38 2025 Received: (at 78851) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2025 07:32:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39098 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uXxO1-0001qh-Ut for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jul 2025 03:32:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34930) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uXxNz-0001pz-5e for 78851@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jul 2025 03:32:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uXxNs-0008KP-P8; Sat, 05 Jul 2025 03:32:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=b+B01cKSShCKAbkmqb8caiRvdEGAgPYXKz8cWgYV+AQ=; b=EjWWlRxkH0P1ZfDZMr0F RdFec/oMYg6OOwbdPu5IyZbNVWdXLhXyCOa+nAtL50u5RHUOS07LcdCzrguOTdZVxjXwa/8pef3Zl UjrT6CHnpmXlAukpII4D3NGzYgelHkBAS4evSpwqS5eWQ6CzNXD7T/u5vjQY1BHnrRH15R9D9KOBF dWqudd92/lGIWlwT7ofdncu1tsC+s5T7w18aD/+CqCtZZuulrHcjG8MxYNTXSqRzjomyNisv4COJ3 slLEZ7CXhLnEaWCmOlebcWKIIm3aWzwUdgvMPfzDtBHDIuBpkMKiQ+yN2cdWGgX1fmS8RE5dajnXT Eq4v7XsIFHVZWg==; Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2025 10:32:27 +0300 Message-Id: <86zfdjw0s4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jonas Bernoulli , Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <87a55yty61.fsf@bernoul.li> (message from Jonas Bernoulli on Mon, 23 Jun 2025 14:55:34 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#78851: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie References: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> <86sejti37z.fsf@gnu.org> <86qzzdi2yv.fsf@gnu.org> <3AA28E11-4574-4E5B-A4B9-2A38362B3B38@gmail.com> <86y0tkgwiy.fsf@gnu.org> <87a55yty61.fsf@bernoul.li> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78851 Cc: 78851@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Re-sending to the bug tracker a response that was sent only to me: > From: Jonas Bernoulli > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 14:55:34 +0200 > > >> > Why does transient signal an error in this case? > >> > >> Could be, I don't know. > > > > Jonas, any comments? > > Transient does *not* signal an error when the menu is defined. > It signals an error when the menu is invoked. > > It could delay that error until the undefined command itself is invoked > from the menu. (Which, I suppose, would be helpful if the user then > goes on to invoke another command -- but would not only not help in the > case when the user goes on to invoke the missing command -- it would be > more annoying to claim the command can be invoked, and then when the > user actually tries, signal an error.) > > Another reason why transient checks the availability of all the bound > commands when the menu is invoked, is that if the command was defined > using `transient-define-suffix', then it has additional information > associated with it, which is already used at the time the menu is shown, > not when the command is invoked. If may for example of a predicate that > controls whether the command should actually be offered given the current > circumstances. > > > tags-loop-continue and tags-search in general were implemented > > differently, so arguments like this are not convincing enough, sorry. > > > >> I admit I'd care less if transient didn't signal an error. > > > > Agreed. Let's see what Jonas thinks about this. > > I very much agree with this: > > > It's very simple: if the naïve customization signals an error about a > > symbol that is unbound, you need to either autoload the offending > > symbol or 'require' its package. This has been always this way in > > Emacs, nothing new here. > > From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 05 11:19:33 2025 Received: (at 78851) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2025 15:19:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46227 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uY4ft-00085C-6t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jul 2025 11:19:33 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-x732.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::732]:48244) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uY4fp-00083z-CC for 78851@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jul 2025 11:19:31 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-x732.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7d5dedad887so133891685a.0 for <78851@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 05 Jul 2025 08:19:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1751728763; x=1752333563; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=kzvU43AglCrC8UPRkk5oAkY3xqR6qEL4u02ZUDF7QJ8=; b=CvfmZQ4UcQbN6kH5Me4xo3tOvV3ohscRTVXZc527qMIlcXOTuz9a9HWCYJZNEq3lsf WFhZC/nvnICMzs3GeAmOcxnh/4AQOa0cyrUbBtVg4+lEq4MmFPJpYyfhijTgHFeOQJpx jJ+/ENiLuIhCA2YDUtTXA3FlRHrmzkAFIMhsWVJr9KYLR5A/a70p6qcytkUD+XkCdH6u kFMyHweZVkSm1iH5wDGNSTXjVxSmO8E2hzD1dT7/9jsW730QN4FU62su//vO8/620+aY GSj01yqQHkXCNGOEJePoi7dHHAzAuf1D77rijAsSTxMGuzXOvYovgDCfhDAdQtPaqAEM deBQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1751728763; x=1752333563; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=kzvU43AglCrC8UPRkk5oAkY3xqR6qEL4u02ZUDF7QJ8=; b=uwmNGbP1/5RMDvCKCXOglZJhOR9w4VG7gPAMd2pTqHHlhOGsc+VDjaYg+yJU/JaIha ZWo7iXyX1wl9soykUmI8VrJxvmO4/ujK5/XLKaNqCwp85amaAY0YOx8eB5BYDDorvzqo qr8EJYc+kxim2z9N9HgtjmOKXSlxtfiTaWELbnT2CNYu1xlSKeApHBJjXgZljE136voK n5Z5ly/37XTHsK18iw5dVfWmmY/8rEIaMFWBrEOuSZp/iiExQ64bl4HpcjZxN6rpNCsi gq9iuXaNP2bx+fJHdjVNy6PVRdF3FHDAAcvZx8YNdQwlDPKZ6mWmxDDxbCwpZNcXWeOk CckQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUCZxZPuAm4CdoPbB4V1FJ77A1nMMBM9cgjWHW0NcOMDgESFtnB50ZmoMNhQHvGotH9We4lEg==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxKwJoGDabQ5c57mmfFIaSwe0pRuOBmGglMC76JCmOjzMycV0kv bY2QKtoLAK181/Ls6Cagbq+aY4r4GYQkWSwyc0tCGrm8ANgIj/uS0uHy X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsZSMhpeHUnr+FKSenQMt9rY+5mRPOnTFb0Zs7n7Xj0HC/sXm15vO5M3Qc0zh0 7hSYR7NYCqVYDDSvN+kab4gUf8SKrDXwtEu8HS+1pWMt/6RvsotSgcDuKW2hIXA0V0VNvrCk3/I AZy9nYEBBUWvAKvcCqxtY5x5MWTwQornk/g6FRJH2YRAP08SkjcUZcJWMfrGHkGm2LLje2qGAJV AA3txjopJmg9k4vB2Q4+0DPXRRe5N5Vy5/RXabO3c3kFNpsVgOBOV7HXzgyHVAut7oSq6uMJ7aP hHTbLBh+jEDn23HmdgdXuywXTg5vRF32fc9t8JV/VA4twZBdfM6qziAE+zfSBpb4E1hitwcdrA= = X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEWuZ2NV/iMuOW0Bxi4Ee21Ldvrt9Csc339DVaGK8bvxa3Uxbj7ha9haEU/4D5CvsBcF8QrsQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1793:b0:7d2:2698:aab1 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7d5ef7c49d2mr345511285a.19.1751728763522; Sat, 05 Jul 2025 08:19:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([72.85.185.24]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7d5dbd958f7sm327072985a.16.2025.07.05.08.19.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 05 Jul 2025 08:19:23 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: bug#78851: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie From: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <86zfdjw0s4.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2025 11:19:12 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9A1A81E5-CA1A-424C-AE30-5271E38E5B8D@gmail.com> References: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> <86sejti37z.fsf@gnu.org> <86qzzdi2yv.fsf@gnu.org> <3AA28E11-4574-4E5B-A4B9-2A38362B3B38@gmail.com> <86y0tkgwiy.fsf@gnu.org> <87a55yty61.fsf@bernoul.li> <86zfdjw0s4.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78851 Cc: Jonas Bernoulli , 78851@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > On Jul 5, 2025, at 3:32=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii = wrote: >=20 > Re-sending to the bug tracker a response that was sent only to me: >=20 >> From: Jonas Bernoulli >> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2025 14:55:34 +0200 Jonas' response about why it generates an error elided. I find it reasonable but don't have an opinion on if it anything should be=20 changed. >> I very much agree with this: >>=20 >>> It's very simple: if the na=C3=AFve customization signals an error = about a >>> symbol that is unbound, you need to either autoload the offending >>> symbol or 'require' its package. This has been always this way in >>> Emacs, nothing new here. Eli's "very simple" explanation was in response to my statement which I think he misunderstood: > I get the slippery slope argument, but I don't have an understanding = of=20 > which customizations can get an autoload vs which don't deserve one. > My argument for why this does isn't because they all should, it's = because > it's the approved replacement for a command that does, and in fact > for more (similar) commands, and because it would save 4 = declare-function > calls currently in emacs source which seems like it meets some = threshold. As a user I know I have to load or autoload an unbound symbol I need. What I was saying I didn't understand was Eli's rationale for which functions in emacs source deserve an autoload call included in emacs source vs those that don't. I know that not all do, hence the "I get = the=20 slippery slope argument", and I stated two arguments why I think this=20 command deserves one, but as far as I understand Eli's stated response=20= it's just "by that logic we will be asked to autoload every single = command,=20 and that's definitely wrong" and not directly addressing my two = arguments (which already don't apply to "every single command"). Howard= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 05 12:40:21 2025 Received: (at 78851) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2025 16:40:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46544 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uY5w4-0001pp-VQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jul 2025 12:40:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47658) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uY5w2-0001p7-Sv for 78851@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jul 2025 12:40:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uY5vw-0000AG-L2; Sat, 05 Jul 2025 12:40:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=3N8b8DwfMZM7C9l6ojl1qTkKL/tRjnIQAJsSoBW+l7c=; b=HfkpC9j67jdl PCIovBJ+tfdAhnm+lHpVd0sQwPCxRS8Ex4HIIvzVYjfobf39C+ooUvc45cQYJlYdEOUBMV7TOHBf8 N+MbbVxvGWMJYKousKncbhcST+jkiJDsrctU8yLPgRhw71d7D77AwgGBrIqrasbkPMrKvnGCSQceK pUeA5gudUrYu9mcByQAL0zVOnutiM9SAAOFFAjm1ty7YyBXuTPVl/9S5F65B9/aWpICuwBW7UHHJj EidLA6cDwPuCXyYFpu5yr9zIzu0r/i0XJ58ZJTnyPkycSNqkjENgqrouuXfUsQudnX4cw5nzksi8+ iA9WMV+xG3rNcaJ8bL9q0A==; Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2025 19:40:09 +0300 Message-Id: <86tt3qvbfa.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <9A1A81E5-CA1A-424C-AE30-5271E38E5B8D@gmail.com> (message from Howard Melman on Sat, 5 Jul 2025 11:19:12 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#78851: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie References: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> <86sejti37z.fsf@gnu.org> <86qzzdi2yv.fsf@gnu.org> <3AA28E11-4574-4E5B-A4B9-2A38362B3B38@gmail.com> <86y0tkgwiy.fsf@gnu.org> <87a55yty61.fsf@bernoul.li> <86zfdjw0s4.fsf@gnu.org> <9A1A81E5-CA1A-424C-AE30-5271E38E5B8D@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78851 Cc: jonas@bernoul.li, 78851@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Howard Melman > Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2025 11:19:12 -0400 > Cc: Jonas Bernoulli , > 78851@debbugs.gnu.org > > What I was saying I didn't understand was Eli's rationale for which > functions in emacs source deserve an autoload call included in emacs > source vs those that don't. This question is only valid about a group of functions whose autoload status is being decided at the same time and by the same people. This rarely happens, and so the question is not really useful. One answer is "the previous maintainers made a mistake that I'm trying to avoid repeating." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 19 03:09:25 2025 Received: (at 78851-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2025 07:09:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39151 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ud1hF-00010J-BY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 03:09:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39432) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ud1hD-0000zn-Bk for 78851-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 03:09:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ud1h7-0008H5-8f; Sat, 19 Jul 2025 03:09:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=4DH0N75Z84zC8JlZtMmCNuwBOK3uqphjr4/CFh77uxg=; b=EDOc17bF5Xe5 nhKPudl13bBPluLxod4sNLH2iHQeZ7pdOgs/twLBB95zT7YOEqFl7QKyIRcx9+fkkptzulw+APrtG jYrB4uMH+HO61Vf3t7ij23Lt2ARDTiWoYZxzrLmaoohF76WeJzHtObAHLqFgqGyqsVPgyZcWur1k6 dWD9HcUWqD4hRSgSHeJHGliU2yGIP7msedA1+v1hZu9xf0E0iG9PzR81CnrGDyH7F6xSrHNFTLOgj d9jfLDMoNOkcVDD6cbH20yyIW7+vG70F7jlEiYOdeGuXtAwbjw4oGCQ9Yc95KAMLuvf7I53LDHRCx esznHlUIW69MnblDoKJvqg==; Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 10:09:12 +0300 Message-Id: <86y0skejxj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: hmelman@gmail.com, jonas@bernoul.li In-Reply-To: <86tt3qvbfa.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sat, 05 Jul 2025 19:40:09 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#78851: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie References: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> <86sejti37z.fsf@gnu.org> <86qzzdi2yv.fsf@gnu.org> <3AA28E11-4574-4E5B-A4B9-2A38362B3B38@gmail.com> <86y0tkgwiy.fsf@gnu.org> <87a55yty61.fsf@bernoul.li> <86zfdjw0s4.fsf@gnu.org> <9A1A81E5-CA1A-424C-AE30-5271E38E5B8D@gmail.com> <86tt3qvbfa.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78851-done Cc: 78851-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: jonas@bernoul.li, 78851@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2025 19:40:09 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > > > From: Howard Melman > > Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2025 11:19:12 -0400 > > Cc: Jonas Bernoulli , > > 78851@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > What I was saying I didn't understand was Eli's rationale for which > > functions in emacs source deserve an autoload call included in emacs > > source vs those that don't. > > This question is only valid about a group of functions whose autoload > status is being decided at the same time and by the same people. This > rarely happens, and so the question is not really useful. One answer > is "the previous maintainers made a mistake that I'm trying to avoid > repeating." No further comments, so I'm now closing this bug, as the preferred solution seems to be to load the package manually when this function is needed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 20 11:47:02 2025 Received: (at 78851-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2025 15:47:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51126 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1udWFh-0004fr-OG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jul 2025 11:47:02 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-x735.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::735]:54429) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1udWFf-0004fG-6c for 78851-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jul 2025 11:47:00 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-x735.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7e334de8df9so411937585a.0 for <78851-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 20 Jul 2025 08:46:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1753026413; x=1753631213; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=vn+cJ9/PENEz6jxZ5a8NBDP3tujBiwaE+3GS6Bzv0rM=; b=ijrFvJDg2yhRMdSpw5UZJMwbq4g0Di2SVbIvJ+/g619wWbgoZp9uJGeZjn7YVJ85Tq oR9NTtKWoLCyVy4JtThzQ9QyL8eSY2oUfZmdJnd5TO89Hto5eyWnWkgYGGQb36Kg80R+ qsspxibNKH53In05rX2TCKz6MFRLzv+EY82+WllCpT3ZWVOXC5bN67x0iowgZbfOyi9f OfgwnzgqT0FPVX7Kdawa8F/MRQ/rK49H+7NmRO6og5krwD0if6f+MdteVvlhMDtowmY4 xK/Xr6LaVIw7msHPwobgD38pRp/C2VzqfrPOQV9BBnuOHTbMPkbz2Ym9P2mydvtR9qCq l5EQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1753026413; x=1753631213; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=vn+cJ9/PENEz6jxZ5a8NBDP3tujBiwaE+3GS6Bzv0rM=; b=qdqo8u2aN3jcAV5pHFNLHxP9cc2+lcm2iPvuPAbMXTsmYCNEb2YxdheaovmCILszV4 1jyR4DMVfCAqw9Y3oXadMlmtgTAlF6Sy94qUYVPy89Y4BHlaWP9te30ZFlIrVmf+pRVG 3N7nsDBXtQVXgmsoiHZCjVB9LVj5PGPwTXUAgMxbVuFo6if4H4WJcqbe+g/STxN0HK13 yKUrxggOzcFZENpF9ipfKent2E97goaF/txMXdD1mv5j3L1kN0w+FEZxAT+/Ld2ywzeo U4Bz1E7zqahm9X4TouDxB8mgXyX/2fSDDOSsx40+hjh1RjDyiMATPBf1SUhvFzV9ve5s Hsyw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyq+R+wAfgQexe43ABwI3FVEaOYn1RqwN1THpnfxx+c1LFpt1EL KqiE8KjaC5xHdFd/GAIjAOgneCW29SiW/uMNGQ6BdwDjBQcr8Hfa1dCyjl92QBo6 X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvdIipMLBt9B8TXfZKWXuZE6F0e6aGVgoia8Y/45KY09AzXkbroSrWvh/B2B0t v1FJKP87V4nIRei7pmNcw8xG4L03saEldB6MeoCxwm1xDggasGJGuG8Qhx6hiNKGbhQ2P6ncEsZ 6Cga750cSAxSN1m/JhhsO9ALJ2DetZ4Sdm7O6zQmEiqsv/bHsYkYiGG66eMALDaPtsv+Bg+Pglo w5RkBpQIhkbjW+/TGT6U2/XR8olYJiLw42b8ryKEvkR4rAvejsTmdxCWQGRXiy2ekBw3QNsbzss WM0AKSEDwEr6wUthfS8kOj2tGgjG2wvoIiiEAjmACcDULo6zDPFhXXMtViAJ5/bYU51F6tq9rhT d9NC4zOTTThL5TXX8BWOK9KIbC+ETq+XJNA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGWA4bHeNgDJR76n9XRljUJPENFsRRonibirwMR604aTuie5jhn18IzZTPBatX+BRVy6eOogA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4410:b0:7e1:9769:97c4 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7e343613265mr2356241385a.47.1753026413245; Sun, 20 Jul 2025 08:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([72.85.185.24]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7e356c767dfsm318901285a.83.2025.07.20.08.46.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Jul 2025 08:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: bug#78851: 30.1.50; fileloop-continue should have autoload cookie From: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <86y0skejxj.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2025 11:46:40 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <97EE4BE3-94C5-4BE9-98D9-34295F09693B@gmail.com> References: <86o6uhk1io.fsf@gnu.org> <86sejti37z.fsf@gnu.org> <86qzzdi2yv.fsf@gnu.org> <3AA28E11-4574-4E5B-A4B9-2A38362B3B38@gmail.com> <86y0tkgwiy.fsf@gnu.org> <87a55yty61.fsf@bernoul.li> <86zfdjw0s4.fsf@gnu.org> <9A1A81E5-CA1A-424C-AE30-5271E38E5B8D@gmail.com> <86tt3qvbfa.fsf@gnu.org> <86y0skejxj.fsf@gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78851-done Cc: 78851-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Jul 19, 2025, at 3:09=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > No further comments, so I'm now closing this bug, as the preferred > solution seems to be to load the package manually when this function > is needed. Just to be clear, it isn't my "preferred solution" I also think it's a bug that if I look at the docstring of project-search (or several other autoloaded commands) it refers me to the command fileloop-continue but since it's not autoloaded I can't look at its docstring or even describe-command on it (yes I can find it in the manual). I find this annoying because it's left up to the user to find a convenient keybinding for this command. I think it's an odd api that has you call two functions (fileloop-initialize-* and fileloop-continue) to use it, the first of which is autoloaded (in fact all three variants of it) and the second (which is the only interactive command in the package) requires you to use declare-function to quiet the compiler. I still don't understand what mistake "the previous maintainers made" that warrants this. To me the intended clever logic that fileloop-continue will be loaded when fileloop-initialize-* is loaded is a new mistake with known inconveniences for the api caller and unintended (help and transient binding) consequences for the user. All to save a little memory space in loaddefs? If that's the case I think the autoload cookie on fileloop-initialize can be removed since it's only called from tags--compat-initialize which already does (require 'fileloop) and any third party caller can do the same. Since tags-loop-continue's key was repurposed, it looks like discussion was coalescing on binding fileloop-continue to M-* but ended abruptly. FWIW, I think M-g , would be a reasonable binding. Howard From unknown Fri Sep 05 08:19:29 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2025 11:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator