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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) `pp' was redefined in Emacs 30.1, introducing quite a few changes in behavior, including the _default_ behavior. As the function is a basic workhorse, these behavior changes can be widespread. The new definition: (defun pp (object &optional stream) "..." (cond ((and (eq (or stream standard-output) (current-buffer)) ;; Make sure the current buffer is setup sanely. (eq (syntax-table) emacs-lisp-mode-syntax-table) (eq indent-line-function #'lisp-indent-line)) ;; Skip the buffer->string->buffer middle man. (funcall pp-default-function object) ;; Preserve old behavior of (usually) finishing with a newline. (unless (bolp) (insert "\n"))) (t (princ (pp-to-string object) (or stream standard-output))))) The old definition wass just that `cond' else clause: (princ (pp-to-string object) (or stream standard-output)) Is the first `cond' clause "sanity" check really a good one for use by `pp-default-function' - sufficient and necessary? I wonder... For one thing, the option value can be _any_ function. The _doc_ says the function should accept 0 or 1 arg and that it "can presume that the buffer is setup for Lisp syntax." But the defcustom code doesn't support/ensure either of those things. For another thing, that check for a "sane" buffer setup precludes using `pp-default-function' with a buffer whose syntax table isn't exactly `emacs-lisp-mode-syntax-table', which means it can't be used for buffers in `lisp-data-mode'. Is that really TRT? Is there some reason not to use `pp-default-function' with that mode's syntax table? And why the `indent-line-function' requirement? Does `pp's use of `pp-default-function' really need its value to be `lisp-indent-line'? That seems fragile - or else unncessary. If these constraints are necessary for option `pp-default-function', then its doc had really better proclaim them as such, no? The doc (if not the defcustom code itself) had better tell users that the function can only be used in a buffer with that syntax table and with that value of `indent-line-function'. I can imagine existing pre-30.1 code ending up (after some debugging) changing some `pp' calls to (insert (pp-to-string...)), to fix problems created by this `pp' redefinition. Or as `bookmark.el' did, to bind `pp-default-function' to `pp-28' around `pp' calls. And why is the option called `pp-default-function'? It's a user option, and it's used unconditionally - not to provide some function by _default_. It should be called `pp-printer-function' or `pp-function' or some such. (The FIXME comment refers to it as a "pretty printer" function.) My sense is that the 30.1 changes to `pp' were misguided (especially changing the _default_ behavior). Call me bad for saying that's what I smell. I hope I'm very wrong. In GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 2, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2025-02-23 built on AVALON Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.26100 System Description: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (v10.0.2009.26100.4061) Configured using: 'configure --with-modules --without-dbus --with-native-compilation=3Daot --without-compress-install --with-tree-sitter CFLAGS=3D-O2 prefix=3D/g/rel/install/emacs-30.1' Configured features: ACL GIF GMP GNUTLS HARFBUZZ JPEG LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY W32NOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XPM ZLIB (NATIVE_COMP present but libgccjit not available) Important settings: value of $LANG: ENU locale-coding-system: cp1252 From unknown Fri Sep 05 08:22:01 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#78810: 30.1; `pp' expectation of `emacs-lisp-mode-syntax-table' etc. Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 11:40:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 78810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams , Stefan Monnier Cc: 78810@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 78810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B78810.175016034929488 (code B ref 78810); Tue, 17 Jun 2025 11:40:05 +0000 Received: (at 78810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jun 2025 11:39:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55407 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRUeh-0007fI-6C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 07:39:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47694) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRUee-0007di-GL for 78810@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 07:39:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uRUeX-0004rX-MI; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 07:38:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=kp+HiLwvS+bKjJ7fbNtkjpLrseqcPDfDwFOUfZO/xj4=; b=mMmIO4w3XqBq qj6XRrYVwvdAlViyI/0+HHMMLsrI5VGXiNB9ffTfPDYq+JiXH4zLsP+kt9oVLB2jlmEiaPT7c+eHh kOAwSZOLVBbV8YvkglTfr3wVMlSeabsKjToDiMA1w2yUFc0e/24li0a8Rg6NxlxR9KNwCNxtiTDnQ D3rRWNS3vwiKJ+uBJhhurVDU0V8X0wdOO4/zL8eMbZxyHBmzmSallYHrl8a22QViaJDtJP1lnKjDQ vnBqJ2bgUkXB2Xtf52WXLkvRcem5ObDp7WAutuKGySaDpAEN5hPbh3ASPgLhWr9dE+9mwH8UBdARG YuvyIiRDWv+q2hAdCIzZTA==; Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 14:38:54 +0300 Message-Id: <86a566oawh.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 00:29:22 +0000 > From: Drew Adams via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" > > `pp' was redefined in Emacs 30.1, introducing quite a few changes in > behavior, including the _default_ behavior. As the function is a basic > workhorse, these behavior changes can be widespread. > > The new definition: > > (defun pp (object &optional stream) > "..." > (cond > ((and (eq (or stream standard-output) (current-buffer)) > ;; Make sure the current buffer is setup sanely. > (eq (syntax-table) emacs-lisp-mode-syntax-table) > (eq indent-line-function #'lisp-indent-line)) > ;; Skip the buffer->string->buffer middle man. > (funcall pp-default-function object) > ;; Preserve old behavior of (usually) finishing with a newline. > (unless (bolp) (insert "\n"))) > (t > (princ (pp-to-string object) (or stream standard-output))))) > > The old definition wass just that `cond' else clause: > > (princ (pp-to-string object) (or stream standard-output)) > > Is the first `cond' clause "sanity" check really a good one for use by > `pp-default-function' - sufficient and necessary? I wonder... > > For one thing, the option value can be _any_ function. The _doc_ says > the function should accept 0 or 1 arg and that it "can presume that the > buffer is setup for Lisp syntax." But the defcustom code doesn't > support/ensure either of those things. > > For another thing, that check for a "sane" buffer setup precludes using > `pp-default-function' with a buffer whose syntax table isn't exactly > `emacs-lisp-mode-syntax-table', which means it can't be used for buffers > in `lisp-data-mode'. Is that really TRT? Is there some reason not to > use `pp-default-function' with that mode's syntax table? > > And why the `indent-line-function' requirement? Does `pp's use of > `pp-default-function' really need its value to be `lisp-indent-line'? > That seems fragile - or else unncessary. > > If these constraints are necessary for option `pp-default-function', > then its doc had really better proclaim them as such, no? The doc (if > not the defcustom code itself) had better tell users that the function > can only be used in a buffer with that syntax table and with that value > of `indent-line-function'. > > I can imagine existing pre-30.1 code ending up (after some debugging) > changing some `pp' calls to (insert (pp-to-string...)), to fix problems > created by this `pp' redefinition. Or as `bookmark.el' did, to bind > `pp-default-function' to `pp-28' around `pp' calls. > > And why is the option called `pp-default-function'? It's a user option, > and it's used unconditionally - not to provide some function by > _default_. It should be called `pp-printer-function' or `pp-function' > or some such. (The FIXME comment refers to it as a "pretty printer" > function.) > > My sense is that the 30.1 changes to `pp' were misguided (especially > changing the _default_ behavior). Call me bad for saying that's what I > smell. I hope I'm very wrong. Stefan, any comments? From unknown Fri Sep 05 08:22:01 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#78810: 30.1; `pp' expectation of `emacs-lisp-mode-syntax-table' etc. Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 15:53:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 78810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 78810@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams Received: via spool by 78810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B78810.17501755594725 (code B ref 78810); Tue, 17 Jun 2025 15:53:02 +0000 Received: (at 78810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jun 2025 15:52:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60877 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRYc3-0001E7-9x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 11:52:39 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:59817) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRYbz-0001DJ-UN for 78810@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 11:52:36 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 8364C80926; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 11:52:30 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1750175549; bh=T7amQhwoHR9XpFfKe1GTYdRB7ivl5htd1C7OZBIpb7Q=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=Fsv8k0ugzZgN+YdgHTql5VJSY0+nM874TJOIxYnpPYxoiOMTM25hhgLEVYqRVsdUU MJZRPxE/rPu7qi+9zyprkyAUgk2xjF3IeQgYVbS76y2lOdHOclQlY2cDUxue2RJ8xg ZnXBNRkU+FNwyJsT5ESdg9mJ6h/aTJPj1GuWhoQ7/leWDnS5t2N+R2McjgJ7pEpono 351cIkETzyGSUeIfFoFvlx7nAAVFfqJekehDu46HhOPcB+gi42kzgAIbHqe2nbKfbZ 01Hodyop5XaYyktX2IyAte5veqshSLBEWzenB7A8c3kq1BkyO/StD/7m2RhdeDoDKR ybFOUltig/MNA== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 7FAB68089D; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 11:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lechazo (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 713471202AB; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 11:52:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: <86a566oawh.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <86a566oawh.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 11:52:29 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.160 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >> `pp' was redefined in Emacs 30.1, introducing quite a few changes in >> behavior, including the _default_ behavior. As the function is a basic >> workhorse, these behavior changes can be widespread. >> >> The new definition: >> >> (defun pp (object &optional stream) >> "..." >> (cond >> ((and (eq (or stream standard-output) (current-buffer)) >> ;; Make sure the current buffer is setup sanely. >> (eq (syntax-table) emacs-lisp-mode-syntax-table) >> (eq indent-line-function #'lisp-indent-line)) >> ;; Skip the buffer->string->buffer middle man. >> (funcall pp-default-function object) >> ;; Preserve old behavior of (usually) finishing with a newline. >> (unless (bolp) (insert "\n"))) >> (t >> (princ (pp-to-string object) (or stream standard-output))))) >> >> The old definition wass just that `cond' else clause: >> >> (princ (pp-to-string object) (or stream standard-output)) >> >> Is the first `cond' clause "sanity" check really a good one for use by >> `pp-default-function' - sufficient and necessary? I wonder... >> >> For one thing, the option value can be _any_ function. The _doc_ says >> the function should accept 0 or 1 arg and that it "can presume that the >> buffer is setup for Lisp syntax." But the defcustom code doesn't >> support/ensure either of those things. >> >> For another thing, that check for a "sane" buffer setup precludes using >> `pp-default-function' with a buffer whose syntax table isn't exactly >> `emacs-lisp-mode-syntax-table', which means it can't be used for buffers >> in `lisp-data-mode'. Is that really TRT? Is there some reason not to >> use `pp-default-function' with that mode's syntax table? >> >> And why the `indent-line-function' requirement? Does `pp's use of >> `pp-default-function' really need its value to be `lisp-indent-line'? >> That seems fragile - or else unncessary. >> >> If these constraints are necessary for option `pp-default-function', >> then its doc had really better proclaim them as such, no? The doc (if >> not the defcustom code itself) had better tell users that the function >> can only be used in a buffer with that syntax table and with that value >> of `indent-line-function'. >> >> I can imagine existing pre-30.1 code ending up (after some debugging) >> changing some `pp' calls to (insert (pp-to-string...)), to fix problems >> created by this `pp' redefinition. Or as `bookmark.el' did, to bind >> `pp-default-function' to `pp-28' around `pp' calls. >> >> And why is the option called `pp-default-function'? It's a user option, >> and it's used unconditionally - not to provide some function by >> _default_. It should be called `pp-printer-function' or `pp-function' >> or some such. (The FIXME comment refers to it as a "pretty printer" >> function.) >> >> My sense is that the 30.1 changes to `pp' were misguided (especially >> changing the _default_ behavior). Call me bad for saying that's what I >> smell. I hope I'm very wrong. > > Stefan, any comments? Not, really, no, expect that I don't see any actual bug reported in that long explanation and that Drew seems to miss the fact that the first branch of the `cond` is basically an optimization. Stefan From unknown Fri Sep 05 08:22:01 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#78810: 30.1; `pp' expectation of `emacs-lisp-mode-syntax-table' etc. Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 16:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 78810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier , Eli Zaretskii Cc: "78810@debbugs.gnu.org" <78810@debbugs.gnu.org> Received: via spool by 78810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B78810.175017689613094 (code B ref 78810); Tue, 17 Jun 2025 16:15:02 +0000 Received: (at 78810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jun 2025 16:14:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33000 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRYxc-0003P6-8u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 12:14:56 -0400 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:48724) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRYxY-0003OZ-2V for 78810@debbugs.gnu.org; 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I didn't miss that the first `cond' branch was presumably _intended_ to be only an optimization. I don't think it always has the same behavior (result) as the second branch, and I do think it's bugged. And the defcustom isn't solid, and the doc and names are poor. You don't respond to any of the questions. For example, is it necessary (or even desirable) for Elisp code in a buffer with `lisp-data-mode' to use the second (unoptimized) `cond' clause? Is `lisp-indent-function' for `indent-line-function' really needed (why)? If so, tell users of the defcustom. From unknown Fri Sep 05 08:22:01 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#78810: 30.1; `pp' expectation of `emacs-lisp-mode-syntax-table' etc. Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 20:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 78810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: Eli Zaretskii , "78810@debbugs.gnu.org" <78810@debbugs.gnu.org> Received: via spool by 78810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B78810.17501905445498 (code B ref 78810); Tue, 17 Jun 2025 20:03:01 +0000 Received: (at 78810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jun 2025 20:02:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35688 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRcVk-0001Qb-CG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 16:02:24 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:45699) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRcVg-0001Q5-Mn for 78810@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 16:02:21 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 53FEC10013E; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 16:02:15 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1750190534; bh=OUPPjPo+wc69VZCzG6ubx+NSiZ4xfbV6AyCTF5AI1vQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=os1NdXYNba3lxie69sJ5i2G8TGGWgH83GYeXkq3HZnx4DQjQwTyp7mCDy/oQ2iwC0 EIP0ZE+bJFKdlEUR7BFUyCx/3BJmnBOiZTPJYF9QLm857MekPlWNnP7vIQqWQhtZBq x5ljeEa/wx9PebpLLFascU7qFlbKiiw7vaETvCJQt8qjrPrmOlXQ8wqaeqP42Qf9aW dqWp0uaIsylh9ZkAkBkRaLb0J7v4uVu789pTEHT28WAXRGWiCTC1mHz2k0VgRtgIds jo5Af+YweNLQSyXhW8VYfEwiHJ/jT/v3FZCbNuc95MD3Rp9aNCbSEV8XB2hkd0bNne ainP2TAhjADkw== Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 8219D10002E; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 16:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lechazo (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6E0061206B4; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 16:02:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <86a566oawh.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 16:02:13 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL 0.084 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > I didn't miss that the first `cond' branch was presumably > _intended_ to be only an optimization. I don't think it > always has the same behavior (result) as the second branch, > and I do think it's bugged. I did get that impression but you don't show any evidence for it. > And the defcustom isn't solid, and the doc and names are poor. I don't know what "solid" means here. w.r.t names, I'm not sure a new name would be sufficiently better to justify the cost of renaming. > You don't respond to any of the questions. Didn't see any. I guess they were too far drowned within lots of other elements. > For example, is it necessary (or even desirable) for Elisp code in > a buffer with `lisp-data-mode' to use the second (unoptimized) > `cond' clause? I don't know. Do you have any concrete data for or against it? > Is `lisp-indent-function' for `indent-line-function' > really needed (why)? Does it matter? Again, some concrete data would help. > If so, tell users of the defcustom. Why should they care? Stefan