From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:12:06 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#78785 <78785@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#78785 <78785@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find Reply-To: bug#78785 <78785@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:12:06 +0000 retitle 78785 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find reassign 78785 emacs submitter 78785 Chris Hibbert severity 78785 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 13 11:13:45 2025 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jun 2025 15:13:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48161 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uQ66B-0000Gf-V7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2025 11:13:45 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:57266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uPVqk-0000Yl-20 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Wed, 11 Jun 2025 19:30:07 -0400 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2025 16:30:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Chris Hibbert Subject: 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find Organization: It's Just Me Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-EN-UserInfo: 9392f423407d376e16e13c6f9cad5711:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27 X-EN-AuthUser: notme@mydruthers.com X-EN-OrigIP: 162.201.68.121 X-EN-OrigHost: 162-201-68-121.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.96.187.4; envelope-from=SRS0=Y+g5+J=Y3=mydruthers.com=hibbert@eigbox.net; helo=bosmailout04.eigbox.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.097, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 13 Jun 2025 11:13:42 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) I reported that "kill-buffer chooses a visible buffer as replacement" on the Emacs StackEchange. (https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/84630) Someone responded, and once he understood my problem, pointed out that switch-to-prev-buffer-skip provides the control I want. I'm now suggesting that it would be helpful to document this better. For instance, the docs for kill-buffer (https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Kill-Buffer.html), say that "If you kill the current buffer, another buffer becomes current: one that was current in the recent past but is not displayed in any window now." That describes the behavior I want, but not the default, AFAICT. I think the default value of switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is nil. The docs for switch-to-prev-buffer-skip say If this variable is nil, ‘switch-to-prev-buffer’ may switch to any buffer, including those already shown in other windows. If the default value of switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is changed to 'visible', the doc for kill-buffer would be correct. Alternatively, we could replace the line I quoted from kill-buffer to say "If you kill the current buffer, another buffer becomes current: the default chooses an arbitrary buffer. To specify a different strategy, set the variable switch-to-prev-buffer-skip to a non-nil value. 'visible' tells it to skip buffers that are visible. Chris In GNU Emacs 29.3 (build 1, aarch64-apple-darwin21.6.0, NS appkit-2113.60 Version 12.6.6 (Build 21G646)) of 2024-03-24 built on armbob.lan Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2575 System Description: macOS 15.5 Configured using: 'configure --with-ns '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application Support/Emacs/${version}/site-lisp:/Library/Application Support/Emacs/site-lisp' --with-modules 'CFLAGS=-DFD_SETSIZE=10000 -DDARWIN_UNLIMITED_SELECT' --with-x-toolkit=no' Configured features: ACL GLIB GMP GNUTLS JPEG JSON LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY KQUEUE NS PDUMPER PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER ZLIB Important settings: value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Text Minor modes in effect: global-git-commit-mode: t magit-auto-revert-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t desktop-save-mode: t server-mode: t tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t 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242811) (floats 8 399 511) (intervals 56 5463 6415) (buffers 984 45)) -- Currently reading: The Coming Wave, Mustafa Suleyman; Infinity Hold 3, Barry B. Longyear; Cancelled: The Shape of Things to Come, by Danny King; The Algebraist, Iain Banks; 1638: The Sovereign States, Eric Flint, et. al Chris Hibbert hibbert@mydruthers.com Blog: http://www.pancrit.org http://mydruthers.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 16 05:52:55 2025 Received: (at 78785) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2025 09:52:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42463 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uR6WM-0000OE-Pb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 05:52:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42788) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uR6WJ-0000NJ-H6 for 78785@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 05:52:52 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uR6W7-0002Rq-BK; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 05:52:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=5nFhbAgcdY1afS945vsHHl8qpQz/YSdeW4WGMiaF2Ls=; b=c1/pRQdWVHFFYYz4UlsN OnyEEZ26bziOi00aQsiCDr/Lzaorg87w2Ia2rengyfhQcjEZWe5IAUaYZRFTOdTGjz1AlTcgIjLxV fDzaorj4AYZcN33GUBcjWpxvz4cg/fK1dCVJ4p7oE85ZRo8mNyD+HOeAvlRG2JDU1bLtvS7fo3AKU EusGwFewR/ZPy5EGaWhCfsHt3sCY7OmIRMgs3lOKhNrp5mHG1f4rZxf8Q7sEVXsWhZoPDtHZ70iAF vGfi2sz/Mh70QbKIrPChcoAIUEJt7Jl2d1ZOJqYmVyYe0xDBrkkF+3r50c5ifREZ8BLGod2B6YbTj nSaD2kNUeGcQdQ==; Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 12:52:00 +0300 Message-Id: <861prkovy7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Chris Hibbert , martin rudalics In-Reply-To: (message from Chris Hibbert on Wed, 11 Jun 2025 16:30:04 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#78785: 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find References: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78785 Cc: 78785@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2025 16:30:04 -0700 > From: Chris Hibbert > > I reported that "kill-buffer chooses a visible buffer as replacement" on > the Emacs StackEchange. > (https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/84630) > > Someone responded, and once he understood my problem, pointed out that > switch-to-prev-buffer-skip provides the control I want. > > I'm now suggesting that it would be helpful to document this better. I think there's some confusion here, see below. > For instance, the docs for kill-buffer > (https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Kill-Buffer.html), > say that > "If you kill the current buffer, another buffer becomes current: one > that was current in the recent past but is not displayed in any > window now." > > That describes the behavior I want, but not the default, AFAICT. > > I think the default value of switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is nil. The docs > for switch-to-prev-buffer-skip say > If this variable is nil, ‘switch-to-prev-buffer’ may switch to > any buffer, including those already shown in other windows. There are two related, but different behaviors here, which both happen when the current buffer is killed: . which buffer becomes the current one, and . which buffer replaces the current buffer in its window The manual's documentation of the behavior of kill-buffer which you quote talks about the former, whereas switch-to-prev-buffer-skip affects the latter. So I don't see a problem in the documentation, and AFAIU the correction you suggested for the manual is incorrect, because it wrongly conflates these two subtly different behaviors. I'm adding Martin to this discussion, in the hope that he will have more comments (and will correct me if I'm wrong). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 16 11:50:32 2025 Received: (at 78785) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2025 15:50:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48337 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRC6Q-00064o-St for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 11:50:32 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:48301) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRC6L-00061P-RX for 78785@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 11:50:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.at; s=s31663417; t=1750089019; x=1750693819; i=rudalics@gmx.at; bh=V2BSruo1Uy/apErDLv6PdZ3mclslH/7m2c7UZdn792Y=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc: References:From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=JNhs6SJAWW19CSOdvxYHvB1zH7rFna381Mz/RoTBOAHVMSfVQwyV7pe3Is39tBDD Naab4CR7GvIsewGsOI7NVQoBwKGuX1fWw80/0rkX59dzM4Eb7FevF3UHA4dlH2P4N ynYrvGxEllBb5NVaC1k/spd4UjmobRnQ2Yh4loej2H4YySxT9MKlieu7HsojpP6cP H65jN7UGhNxF61x/jCGyy+eUYHlJv6ZZ0LheoECivGcg5aQEyr2/cWjyCyDbXb3BL lnqRHbPlCgPBreBBB2ylD/KPyLLFr0g9G8gPhyhtXK9s3fCB7QROYyGQoI5AQ3IgU jX6h7CvNrGlg4yECjw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from [192.168.31.113] ([212.95.5.177]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MXGrE-1uHqq43526-00WBgn; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 17:50:18 +0200 Message-ID: <498cc6d4-d13f-4376-9429-afa083983803@gmx.at> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 17:50:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#78785: 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find To: Eli Zaretskii , Chris Hibbert References: <861prkovy7.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US From: martin rudalics In-Reply-To: <861prkovy7.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:YC1dgeeMSNlPQ/H4RiMX2bpgZfB4CJrxcm0vOMfFe1QDBSe9i17 7aZuwJmjYYtIvlwb2w2/YqiSeAM/ozz0xeDd5bAl+SJJ4VJjhmtbDKYOsf84dyioBnZg0Go e7c7JzBI8owYSivhjqtMgxjX8mB2MSFZWnQanRh+AOtN/mnUDhPUOWf6CC70O5lBUeOGPRD 7Hy+2yL6jGRvVii1iYIRA== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:c2fSb3LsHJc=;Ak7+OHEHNJlCsqESbG2cbtlX6rg +gQxia/UD8bGWklGmpsuVTGYFPgO3segkk5RcuFZRO9+FTGNxPPFSLIV/ienpf+ZT9CkGCe7I VNNt3rI4J0sz8xypsDez9fDtwh5JyC27nojOJakeNBwkXSDiyj8rMAEVuHRaQvdafFrBn5CX3 4GDf8bRpAUkQUAD4P7C6KQk0LkPRWqMvakw/nyT5Cc7a1leFtlc3aNp2hKps9lZhrc3CQXSbs fmdO1Q/pTM1OrZYiJCRx9Z8I1gxFRbTA08bF8Gy3ahE9E4SFClZ6WdDdq2raTMiJDgg8Uh7n4 hQixcc8C807nV9yjHsrUq4htIxyzxCg+Kjd/NB8OGB+LU+Ma110LaVdFte1H6rZiVAB87TSW7 3BAMCaAW8kQhfV9281W6IBZ/fskBWM0RZl5LV5C21Xmxo0+Hu1PM7DlRoif+tRbK1oOVlj9Ng E9Yc0zM32DHcGu/gI15qOlrxTMPQWGhkUMHYWN7y6qQ2Sy9XkcAFoz2Gnu4f6T7U02gYOn9a6 UOuL1IWMGitrt34jVhlRhl5tGlagOicZbh1+d4XZqdCqMbUfpEBNlxXLzpnA20tGg8UKO3HeY 9SNv5lSPS+ail4GKXBEMRQnWVjscfUcY1D0qwyEpiCrY0tdYLt5JPhWPbWRWaBtV04hsVheBQ DAFP4UtjpXOPg8Tdfvmon+RaTvn7wLcr4w4SjJI/qlGcAgxxdfvYkPOXUNFlNFaJDq9z9WF6H W2h+8mKTOEQdfgGGrbfEq4v5V7dEeeGRu7j+SuSCYOBBN+xffiXK09y02TN9ZKJJhmdogf5J6 yBAb5h3SIxz7lDrMu23KzzsvpG+3dOzgp21QNUXoSnJGCT89nf6fop4bbYvyGq3oH9Qx3AbSB NO/EWd4n/nUmWeOO4DZtoXjJyRVE9JJlSff6OGHN0CiWST2a0ZFl6DULYzS0FuaH2OPlBYE+x PN66vtp5UPmqVEDF87oDxv5boNOhCGHJxuF0ItB2j1XS3pERM1+g218T8985tR++gUD0hyong 7NNAvbswHl8+y54J0cjAiYvnVqFjqJpEeliF4yCPcKz+f9WTqC9ao88Mb3/VBZTYi5RA4Jd0B 7u73grd3lY59ovHpiIcUA7X6rFrQfq21BvLp1zzuyXWnI9CeoNFXhc8/KUOYOn3xR4sHzNeVb dUth/x7Cy1eSXesnEQKzjGaA+XvRs0M2xWkAgKDyGdq01gxk5Wi2s1IOiL2u8GyFQRndFpgvj sljXXOO6777Yv2A2AJMEc1ILfDjG8jeIhIBRq9pGHFcvde7u/ahkhk8vJt9FZlrc8Kc88po23 hsyAFZpIOO7EU53hLyADNSAW7mMHppjX8Ea0gNX3DrwYRyxp9XbOBok1YnHWiriKLO1M07fo2 9wVT+rsDY11pCAFMnkQl/6jI/B3pY/PfcKTFE9crKU2Vuamnd3r/s7VYnx9XuslCt5++tAgqB U2hQulvYJXMy6TA3Mf1awIKIjOjgizJFVG0VhWHeFNhbFMfrJ3TPWCWNoX8T8qS4ehDcwoBSL O2urByWo/G83wm0MiaHzBlxrJSXSf6KkhynQVOp5gkJ/o/SfwN7sWfh2gouKg9rWFJBZXQFZp 6YyebM8CdlIC3lmDTEeRccF5AnLPivVMdu44CT584XqQ1mOlBU+HA95EGyv74QvOM/QZlvpzS Yw6rbEwdJW4PtQSMgNT7hRKN7JXHTn8gRnjiiGO30xOMVznyXnuKvVo9TOWh5r4tZmZey8k7I 23TvLJxfQYcxa5vDWdOvSlXMlqFhW/v519wnw0myICjltkD0e8v8+j1gzyZ/71y0ILy2J6J4x /g/3BH3MUVUAZwA3454J+B2R7+C5+0xl/XGHqPjsmI3gGSGLwjUBjoUxAEOuuRhzvF3BoSzTK dkFfusVlDK4Udww9BF/A5naQct2+xh4mkXgWAMBC53P57lR8UNZfc3vBYFQdgCYtruwXFaOhH tBUCoKF+rpMmiwgv4xJncq4nCfHUjKDK3kLCZgEZvGh5VVgDMUmpmgfSSoXw+b7o+mkQXrDGj cr2kpc3YCn/tLhFUfB+voyyoe84CeZ+ALT0EI2yr0wHHCLIY9NRfvuIpAQfoPQ+zLJCw8L1Xv Er6/E2iHHpqL6Ua6lC1aQarSbkrY4oSdcLi43xQMdEbp3h1oUqayfhFQGsndk9kAhWdHJarhg OKz0vxPe0NFhKwPx8dSHIggoW+P6y/YFIECG7SkeLSmNCs1mER454diuU4XZSKb6wQpI21m+o D020rt2wD4UmOs0K3Johnckrd2VEplnTjeKEYPFqT7SYEAFD+pIue7oJA2zdiBio0QAnanH+3 60LzVZppWkY3sraDedDnQ6XGDEsxp5bqvj5yneo2vpIKwLfWiA3VklClRhAg02LaCc/ToUPR4 NdTWpDTQ4a18fdF1Xz1k/tE3OhxBeQ+dswoqvxN6rrHhhiUwLZnh8ex2RNyUlm171Bp82/eYB qVjJ/UY1j4WXQ/sbHbS+Phc7L5FaNA49KVuIMt1JJVJ6afD9l2CY3+YWIjI5NgOR/hfLnc4sl SC3QK1O4a72cWhz3fTtJBZ9K+P16js5UWHfi8RSjr2lihDzmdDG4/DCresSp1QjFVglUHbIG3 zRCJmXI6E7s8esq+wMdbWXrwO0oBWaF3kH9fJZpbJUIeBNWKswvu98IHAx7UyQic5aindObvh XZQ7yIza2wS765Jrrf6S/SV7aT74CQJh86zcpOeDSYDTmEOnR6CfXswVPwmn+WMR8qwQ0xhnl Xcz4ak6RzXY3WGNh+nfx1vI9MwAEXt/Wnvey0eI6iqTA1fmMQS9eiuRoXlq/oQqVicC8NZDOG //hQqKzEh487KDAPukn6U3NORFfimu7EiqatPRNhCK5vbQHH7v6iy3MoA7nQ1DpGesaIJ7mtJ sBqVSaedARiLoQxDbBcIzz0df1E3ciH9c0Fn/wsst3cqEvL53+YW0cujw7dnbl6u2iLWsnrsL t0MWkPMoQphvFa1gxBmEeI2HRbhs93ze+CjMqebNAzEYyLycCiBDjbuCwtT6CuXCcFHYABV/U Cg/BvtlJs2ER/M4tRzd8D5j0kjOPOqN+9clgKkfiWZyCoJFToCbuzTQiQBiRT5nTfzRcHmi3U dXi2M5XcX+iZGOVn39qYkiKBFgxpeRX7MxJRHSCu1xri2vZvnm+vfxiZ24T6LCJXJ9XDjR2hW equdei4olvWCJmZaJ9VYc0YiUSwQOLF7Gyp6Ul4teUI6v1l9hminWnEAl3IaWPupGmS5K5Fyh djdg96wQJvNWDTNgFkIKRZbg1FoPTzfFd3EZxg== X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > There are two related, but different behaviors here, which both happen > when the current buffer is killed: > > . which buffer becomes the current one, and > . which buffer replaces the current buf [...] Content analysis details: (2.9 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [212.95.5.177 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (rudalics[at]gmx.at) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. 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[212.227.15.18 listed in bl.score.senderscore.com] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4 RBL: Very Good reputation (+4) [212.227.15.18 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [212.227.15.18 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78785 Cc: 78785@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > There are two related, but different behaviors here, which both happen > when the current buffer is killed: > > . which buffer becomes the current one, and > . which buffer replaces the current buf [...] Content analysis details: (1.9 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [212.227.15.18 listed in sa-accredit.habeas.com] -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [212.227.15.18 listed in list.dnswl.org] 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [212.95.5.177 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [212.227.15.18 listed in bl.score.senderscore.com] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4 RBL: Very Good reputation (+4) [212.227.15.18 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (rudalics[at]gmx.at) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager > There are two related, but different behaviors here, which both happen > when the current buffer is killed: > > . which buffer becomes the current one, and > . which buffer replaces the current buffer in its window > > The manual's documentation of the behavior of kill-buffer which you > quote talks about the former, whereas switch-to-prev-buffer-skip > affects the latter. Indeed. By virtue of the fact that the command loop makes the selected window's buffer current, a user gets the impression that these are one and the same. > So I don't see a problem in the documentation, and AFAIU the > correction you suggested for the manual is incorrect, because it > wrongly conflates these two subtly different behaviors. We could say If you kill the current buffer, Emacs makes another buffer current and either shows another buffer in every window showing the old current buffer or deletes such a window. If you are not satisfied with that behavior, try customizing the options `kill-buffer-quit-windows' and/or `switch-to-prev-buffer-skip'. In either case, the command loop will eventually make the now selected window's buffer current. instead. martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 16 12:35:58 2025 Received: (at 78785) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2025 16:35:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48561 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRCoO-00058X-O1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 12:35:58 -0400 Received: from mail-vk1-xa2a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::a2a]:61467) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRCoI-00056q-0X for 78785@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 12:35:52 -0400 Received: by mail-vk1-xa2a.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-5315acf37b6so410987e0c.2 for <78785@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:35:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1750091744; x=1750696544; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=41gq42blbltdTB0qI9O0VzBqmjPG7VGrIyRwpxzxLvQ=; b=iuN25Rlyusv3gJS4RKo58AoYv9EI2hR/8PnwLhN/VwhlHuDzBCI7bjX2DOszpoKODa Hp5BaMj30Qu52iOdAE9NIodE3qUIt0+njCgjrcN88S1JFVomedTV6gekU3TqUU8B6y0V bj5JF64NqgNjTvFyneEEY/XZ5BBj7IW1m4ce6qRTyatpPIcYrmYGwVgpKkT81cx85EwV DPqwCQielTD/ZqUDSmPNvzZPqVo/KDshm3BSKWyz4MQRzHm7u/X9UMqwiKB72BNbNgsA bxiH3k/vo8i7JFKWy2+Q/1phFFBR8I/NSf3viKyupFropTVIAU55yFL/0Eh83N5COwMX zOIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1750091744; x=1750696544; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=41gq42blbltdTB0qI9O0VzBqmjPG7VGrIyRwpxzxLvQ=; b=LV+FFrdc5DAS45tGHhGWRn74mapwmmsULKg8vU+sJWMF8xofOZ/7E5PmAkmt/HtW+0 AQ7oeVSO4wJ2t3FdPqkSxpLVGiCQFXZJXZX5huoFpcpHtlnj7lSJiRYQF4bAT6fcqltv zJPPrUmxpsS8c4LSrA6ihhLbl49T7u5BEv6upcJRZHVRPffQ/28KIHxogbpZs8ycZID7 0YTjJ8dsFdJfTyepPoaVpCqyt+WBJfVADw6rSOfIsWm9c8wu6FyNS2mFyeCF4/wS1QE3 Z4NVPJQl22qJDE+rdsV7Gm/Tv58aZqgwZSE/40EW221mgs/2tR3tQHS5q5voe1z1Lr0q sPjQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCX11zOMu8HBHR2RbPaqDKG70UT8Ul5UOvm98u4G+g5Oov37nmV8rqGkJU+0dmw+g9mub58Vkw==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz5INn5IytbqcEKWqbB0bZrn7AYAlxY01uAc/fcfyBJrhsVmr4d qKGl9yvq9fljmNB3X2NrctMuELpK8H4EsVRrrM2Q79x2q34JghNtly+smNHlL0Ao9HbEipQoxMo Dw6r7jaTFgIi4MLjfMyRMslQusm4xDFI= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsSQbZ3XBI7/0jtD9IWf/PWatiZm4yYthe4PuBPgOt1t5gCvkffUCcrdG9Dp/q nub5aUZp4W7V5spi+5Ol8NfM74T8EYFEGgTgTdiQv7hD9wtJvvLCLLyB1dy5Bsv8n2hNLQJLLYA d+nRpYo03jgOG3BECtS4r7iI00RYF1/PHZfqQAn8D5oBA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHTnZa10BOJI1kCGMKd/fXyty2+5hd598rs2TndpUyto50Gut3HMrN5RHwfD/5UXbJcDHIzxUp43RJGxwo36CQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:3c51:b0:530:81ac:51be with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-5314968c4f9mr5834384e0c.8.1750091743617; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:35:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <861prkovy7.fsf@gnu.org> <498cc6d4-d13f-4376-9429-afa083983803@gmx.at> In-Reply-To: <498cc6d4-d13f-4376-9429-afa083983803@gmx.at> From: =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Marks?= Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 12:35:30 -0400 X-Gm-Features: AX0GCFtXkDCfsc7TK8jCbkbazNDVBEfIMzcGwNqcYI5mic-MODPeQD7ZTSDrZPQ Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#78785: 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find To: martin rudalics Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b3e5c60637b2fc6f" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78785 Cc: Chris Hibbert , Eli Zaretskii , 78785@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --000000000000b3e5c60637b2fc6f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 16, 2025 at 11:51=E2=80=AFAM martin rudalics via Bug reports fo= r GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors wrote: > > There are two related, but different behaviors here, which both happen > > when the current buffer is killed: > > > > . which buffer becomes the current one, and > > . which buffer replaces the current buffer in its window > > > > The manual's documentation of the behavior of kill-buffer which you > > quote talks about the former, whereas switch-to-prev-buffer-skip > > affects the latter. > > Indeed. By virtue of the fact that the command loop makes the selected > window's buffer current, a user gets the impression that these are one > and the same. > > > So I don't see a problem in the documentation, and AFAIU the > > correction you suggested for the manual is incorrect, because it > > wrongly conflates these two subtly different behaviors. > > We could say > > If you kill the current buffer, Emacs makes another buffer current and > either shows another buffer in every window showing the old current > buffer or deletes such a window. If you are not satisfied with that > behavior, try customizing the options `kill-buffer-quit-windows' > and/or `switch-to-prev-buffer-skip'. In either case, the command loop > will eventually make the now selected window's buffer current. > > instead. > If you're a tab-bar user, there's also this user option `tab-bar-select-restore-windows` to take a look at. --000000000000b3e5c60637b2fc6f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
= On Mon, Jun 16, 2025 at 11:51=E2=80=AFAM martin rudalics via Bug reports fo= r GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> wrote:
=
=C2=A0> There are two related, but different beh= aviors here, which both happen
=C2=A0> when the current buffer is killed:
=C2=A0>
=C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 . which buffer becomes the current one, and
=C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 . which buffer replaces the current buffer in its w= indow
=C2=A0>
=C2=A0> The manual's documentation of the behavior of kill-buffer wh= ich you
=C2=A0> quote talks about the former, whereas switch-to-prev-buffer-skip=
=C2=A0> affects the latter.

Indeed.=C2=A0 By virtue of the fact that the command loop makes the selecte= d
window's buffer current, a user gets the impression that these are one<= br> and the same.

=C2=A0> So I don't see a problem in the documentation, and AFAIU the=
=C2=A0> correction you suggested for the manual is incorrect, because it=
=C2=A0> wrongly conflates these two subtly different behaviors.

We could say

=C2=A0 =C2=A0If you kill the current buffer, Emacs makes another buffer cur= rent and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0either shows another buffer in every window showing the old cu= rrent
=C2=A0 =C2=A0buffer or deletes such a window.=C2=A0 If you are not satisfie= d with that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior, try customizing the options `kill-buffer-quit-window= s'
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and/or `switch-to-prev-buffer-skip'.=C2=A0 In either case,= the command loop
=C2=A0 =C2=A0will eventually make the now selected window's buffer curr= ent.

instead.

If you're a tab-bar user, there's also t= his user option `tab-bar-select-restore-windows` to take a look at.
--000000000000b3e5c60637b2fc6f-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 16 12:43:52 2025 Received: (at 78785) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2025 16:43:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48613 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRCw3-0006KD-LY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 12:43:52 -0400 Received: from walmailout01.yourhostingaccount.com ([65.254.253.170]:44031) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRCvz-0006Jh-QD for 78785@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 12:43:49 -0400 Received: from mailscan07.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.15.7] helo=walmailscan07.yourhostingaccount.com) by walmailout01.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1uRCvy-000274-PR for 78785@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 12:43:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mydruthers.com; s=dkim; h=Sender:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: In-Reply-To:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID: Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender :Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Kz6FXrSFXQaHQKjfGbg7wWZNQfG4ZKxqmuT4jlhOF3U=; b=x0Rb5akzDdpQFSCfZXC6TO7+ab kyEoj1fn1HjYg7EIJKqe2Z5UiPVpgFpp2g0pLkjI00PSZ6A/iPp7vVfxyZdgAWfNba+BQ1TFp2snP jQqVTKayKTVVpXCeA+NPZLwnjv4tiDV9X6RsyJKqYTPbE4TVGbppqt08Kf+NMOBo3OeTZwTk3nBGv SKBzBiiGjkfGplnscuwltnX6amii82BQR4kDJYQ08MD+0B1uFo4XjFaXmzETk7GXjO9/iiQB+dxDq oTuTzCcKSTiTuGWnVhs8G49o193zqk6vxlxIDETcYDRK1DSBgpsYuit8z0RB2ZfIy03XxgyZi9dZ7 /1fSLWFw==; Received: from [10.114.3.21] (helo=walimpout01) by walmailscan07.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1uRCvy-00083z-Gb for 78785@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 12:43:46 -0400 Received: from bosauthsmtp15.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.20.18.15]) by walimpout01 with id 2GjY2F00A0KWaAJ01GjbPs; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 12:43:46 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Cu4kjkwD c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=6thTdk0GfRoQwv0zj4iWMg==:117 a=cpF7Eqom44z/YiAqok8hhA==:17 a=B6u2B_WX_xo6A_5L:21 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=6IFa9wvqVegA:10 a=ih6xIS8jAAAA:8 a=QjQeOHPwAAAA:8 a=PCNhs7OFAAAA:8 a=FYL8B8rU40k-yD1ncLEA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=ECyUTFKop-D_2cNr7U6K:22 a=uMKInByJaMASNJfg_52p:22 a=ZhFCym3q5arUram2UM69:22 Received: from 162-201-68-121.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net ([162.201.68.121]:53086 helo=[192.168.1.85]) by bosauthsmtp15.eigbox.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1uRCvk-0002gp-Dv; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 12:43:32 -0400 Message-ID: <6c653efe-d4ee-4642-8403-7198a0c9d95f@mydruthers.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:43:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#78785: 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find To: Eli Zaretskii , martin rudalics References: <861prkovy7.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Chris Hibbert Organization: It's Just Me In-Reply-To: <861prkovy7.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-EN-UserInfo: 9392f423407d376e16e13c6f9cad5711:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27 X-EN-AuthUser: notme@mydruthers.com X-EN-OrigIP: 162.201.68.121 X-EN-OrigHost: 162-201-68-121.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78785 Cc: 78785@debbugs.gnu.org, shipmints@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) On 6/16/25 2:52 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > There are two related, but different behaviors here, which both happen > when the current buffer is killed: > > . which buffer becomes the current one, and > . which buffer replaces the current buffer in its window > > The manual's documentation of the behavior of kill-buffer which you > quote talks about the former, whereas switch-to-prev-buffer-skip > affects the latter. I'm confused by this explanation. When kill-buffer starts re-using visible buffers, the statement "another buffer becomes current: one that was current in the recent past but is not displayed in any window now" doesn't seem true in any sense. When switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is nil, even if there are other non-displayed buffers available, it doesn't choose any of them, instead displaying one that's already visible. One plausible interpretation of "one that was current in the recent past" is that there's a cache somewhere, and it gets exhausted. If that were the case, I'd hope for access to or control of the size of the cache. If there's no cache, then it should always be able to find the non-visible buffers to use before the visible ones. > So I don't see a problem in the documentation, and AFAIU the > correction you suggested for the manual is incorrect, because it > wrongly conflates these two subtly different behaviors. Martin's explanation is definitely an improvement on that. > I'm adding Martin to this discussion, in the hope that he will have > more comments (and will correct me if I'm wrong). On 6/16/25 8:50 AM, martin rudalics wrote: > We could say > > > If you kill the current buffer, Emacs makes another buffer > current and either shows another buffer in every window > showing the old current buffer or deletes such a window. If > you are not satisfied with that behavior, try customizing the > options `kill-buffer-quit-windows' and/or > `switch-to-prev-buffer-skip'. In either case, the command > loop will eventually make the now selectedwindow's buffer > current. I couldn't find any documentation of kill-buffer-quit-windows either on the gnu site, within emacs (apropos, describe variables, ^h-d, searching within Info), or by asking google. Chris -- Market[s] sets wages as a function of the marginal productivity of the worker. Therefore technology – which raises productivity – drives wages up, not down. -- https://a16z.com/the-techno-optimist-manifesto/ Chris Hibbert hibbert@mydruthers.com Blog: http://www.pancrit.org http://mydruthers.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 16 13:21:37 2025 Received: (at 78785) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2025 17:21:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48671 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRDWa-0004BM-12 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 13:21:37 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:12226) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRDWV-0004AS-NF for 78785@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 13:21:33 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246630.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.18.1.2/8.18.1.2) with ESMTP id 55GGtVKB024943; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 17:21:30 GMT DKIM-Signature: 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > I'm confused by this explanation. When kill-buffer starts re-using > visible buffers, the statement "another buffer becomes current: one > that was current in the recent past but is not displayed i [...] Content analysis details: (2.9 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [212.227.15.19 listed in sa-trusted.bondedsender.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > I'm confused by this explanation. When kill-buffer starts re-using > visible buffers, the statement "another buffer becomes current: one > that was current in the recent past but is not displayed i [...] Content analysis details: (1.9 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [212.227.15.19 listed in sa-accredit.habeas.com] -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [212.227.15.19 listed in list.dnswl.org] 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [213.142.96.141 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [212.227.15.19 listed in bl.score.senderscore.com] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [212.227.15.19 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (rudalics[at]gmx.at) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager > I'm confused by this explanation. When kill-buffer starts re-using > visible buffers, the statement "another buffer becomes current: one > that was current in the recent past but is not displayed in any window > now" doesn't seem true in any sense. When switch-to-prev-buffer-skip > is nil, even if there are other non-displayed buffers available, it > doesn't choose any of them, instead displaying one that's already > visible. You're conflating two actions performed by 'kill-buffer': - It first calls 'replace-buffer-in-windows' via replace_buffer_in_windows (buffer); to make sure that BUFFER is no more shown in any window. - It then checks if BUFFER is the current buffer and if so makes another buffer current via if (b == current_buffer) { tem = Fother_buffer (buffer, Qnil, Qnil); Fset_buffer (tem); if (b == current_buffer) return Qnil; } If you look at the specification of 'other-buffer', you will see that the VISIBLE-OK argument is nil here, so replacing the current buffer does not choose a visible buffer unless all other buffers are visible and the doc is correct just as Eli said. Eventually, the command loop will make the buffer of the selected window current and that buffer may be indeed shown in any other window already. You have to look into the documentations of 'replace-buffer-in-windows' and 'switch-to-prev-buffer' to find out under which circumstances these may show an already visible buffer. The main reason is to accommodate the following user behavior: - The user types C-x 2 to look at two different portions of one and the same buffer. - The users invokes a command to display a *Help* or *Info* buffer in one of these windows. - The users kills the *Help* or *Info* buffer. In this situation, our user expects that the original state before invoking the help or info command gets restored thus showing the same buffer in two windows. As a rule, 'switch-to-prev-buffer' switches to a buffer previously shown in that window. If, in your case, this unwantedly shows the same buffer in two windows, then the explanation usually is that the window that showed the killed buffer did show the buffer it switched to before. > One plausible interpretation of "one that was current in the recent > past" is that there's a cache somewhere, and it gets exhausted. If > that were the case, I'd hope for access to or control of the size of > the cache. If there's no cache, then it should always be able to find > the non-visible buffers to use before the visible ones. I can only repeat myself: Replacing the current buffer is not involved in this scenario. It's the selected window's buffer that gets replaced and later made current by the command loop. martin From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 17 06:59:04 2025 Received: (at 78785) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jun 2025 10:59:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54865 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRU1w-0000V2-00 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 06:59:04 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:47809) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRU1s-0000UE-IS for 78785@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 06:59:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.at; s=s31663417; t=1750157925; x=1750762725; i=rudalics@gmx.at; bh=rwEfr5A7PLdR4g/zderuKGb7cT4qINhRa9LO1SRFg/U=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc: References:From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=e2Um07usnmBBCD71LWuO6eHWmFfRHCPh8nL1WxedGI9QzaB0GcnnbjPOx+uxYxBd 9tfMnTVPlZmHS38ipE1YC4F56x+xTdB6S94+wlSwBbK3xwhy96nuiJFlkHZK8U4sy eIkMDU2MdsJU9unqkvvwCzjtvWujgropofFcB9th3/y4gbycTyXMnVh42ywqLH31c 0IfiLOlNTh5ebX506kZdF4ty4VDbJUtisUawx/1SKHGDS7qzHYmP38NmabgGZZ+wL 8/NEWAClVbl+qDCt4uGtlXGr3f8E6JGLyXSAbm2vMm2DQ/W1T2lJge6wrGYywHISv nWY9Vu7yCjipOlt2uA== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from [192.168.31.113] ([213.142.96.141]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M2O6e-1uVKJO29jK-001EJm; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 12:58:44 +0200 Message-ID: <2309aeb8-54ad-4b30-802e-241572985060@gmx.at> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 12:58:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [External] : bug#78785: 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find To: Drew Adams , Eli Zaretskii , Chris Hibbert References: <861prkovy7.fsf@gnu.org> <498cc6d4-d13f-4376-9429-afa083983803@gmx.at> Content-Language: en-US From: martin rudalics In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > And please mention it in (elisp) `Window History'. In Emacs > 30.1, that doc says nothing about the relation between option > `switch-to-prev-buffer-skip' and `kill-buffer'. 'kill-buffer' calls 'replace-buffer-in-windows' which is documented in the Elisp manual as Content analysis details: (2.9 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [213.142.96.141 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. 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[212.227.15.15 listed in sa-accredit.habeas.com] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [212.227.15.15 listed in wl.mailspike.net] X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78785 Cc: "78785@debbugs.gnu.org" <78785@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: > And please mention it in (elisp) `Window History'. In Emacs > 30.1, that doc says nothing about the relation between option > `switch-to-prev-buffer-skip' and `kill-buffer'. 'kill-buffer' calls 'replace-buffer-in-windows' which is documented in the Elisp manual as Content analysis details: (1.9 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [212.227.15.15 listed in sa-accredit.habeas.com] -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [212.227.15.15 listed in list.dnswl.org] 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [213.142.96.141 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. 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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 14:02:51 +0300 Message-Id: <86ldpqockk.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Chris Hibbert In-Reply-To: <6c653efe-d4ee-4642-8403-7198a0c9d95f@mydruthers.com> (message from Chris Hibbert on Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:43:25 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#78785: 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find References: <861prkovy7.fsf@gnu.org> <6c653efe-d4ee-4642-8403-7198a0c9d95f@mydruthers.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78785 Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, 78785@debbugs.gnu.org, shipmints@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:43:25 -0700 > Cc: 78785@debbugs.gnu.org, shipmints@gmail.com > From: Chris Hibbert > > On 6/16/25 2:52 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > There are two related, but different behaviors here, which both happen > > when the current buffer is killed: > > > > . which buffer becomes the current one, and > > . which buffer replaces the current buffer in its window > > > > The manual's documentation of the behavior of kill-buffer which you > > quote talks about the former, whereas switch-to-prev-buffer-skip > > affects the latter. > > I'm confused by this explanation. Confused in what sense? In the sense that you cannot easily correlate that to what you see in a running Emacs session? That's because the two processes I described happen one after the other, and users only see the results of both of them. My point is that there are two processes, and each one is controlled by a different set of options and rules. Conflating them into one, as you tried to do, will only muddy the waters and make prediction of what happens harder. > When kill-buffer starts re-using > visible buffers, the statement "another buffer becomes current: one that > was current in the recent past but is not displayed in any window now" > doesn't seem true in any sense. It does, you just might not see it under some circumstances. > When switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is nil, > even if there are other non-displayed buffers available, it doesn't > choose any of them, instead displaying one that's already visible. That's because Emacs always forces the buffer of the selected window to become the current buffer, when it (Emacs) displays the results of killing the current buffer. But before that happens, some other buffer might become the current one. > One plausible interpretation of "one that was current in the recent > past" is that there's a cache somewhere, and it gets exhausted. If that > were the case, I'd hope for access to or control of the size of the > cache. If there's no cache, then it should always be able to find the > non-visible buffers to use before the visible ones. I don't think this is what happens in your case. > > So I don't see a problem in the documentation, and AFAIU the > > correction you suggested for the manual is incorrect, because it > > wrongly conflates these two subtly different behaviors. > > Martin's explanation is definitely an improvement on that. I think it again conflates the two processes. We need to describe them separately, and in a way that clarifies that they are separate. So if we decide to amend the manual, I'll try to come up with text which emphasizes that aspect more clearly. Meanwhile, I don't think I understand what was your practical problem with kill-buffer. Can you tell what you tried to achieve and what information was missing in the documentation which would have helped you do what you wanted? Because this discussion started without a clear description of the original problem (and the StackExchange discussion doesn't clarify that, either). Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 17 07:06:48 2025 Received: (at 78785) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jun 2025 11:06:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54984 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRU9Q-0001JS-Ec for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 07:06:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47622) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRU9O-0001Ir-9K for 78785@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 07:06:46 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uRU9H-00012f-DA; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 07:06:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=GO9VcqIcdogEpwQ3yeEnRvC0Qx6ssJFDDNA2LmILE2c=; b=oziR8uI7e2OG 4u9TppTSeCV8wBjIYgFUZa6VVbEma3386RFdvKssujhyFjT7nnn+Vs4/f4lLhthwJrxOsObwcAfm3 R9apXJnxufwYgzVkYl2x7ix15WIWAJyS89aafSniP8/mSkFYMIUc9FX9HKCnX8TEFU7lyk9pm1WNS FMgzpr4cO6vCU9DcpCWerQabVX568YM3FKk+hKw8Zv5XBKzzziQ5rp41eqsS/jKcodLdg6mAPPsDD xrdPC7f9yj5O3nzS7EI1poyhOf82BIb7m3+UfBQIQudmTMcgkCSKdDk0UgwyDPFqC8tbGBZgUWfrH qfZjGxN3ulPFH3crWgm8UA==; Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 14:06:01 +0300 Message-Id: <86jz5aocfa.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 16 Jun 2025 17:21:26 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : bug#78785: 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find References: <861prkovy7.fsf@gnu.org> <498cc6d4-d13f-4376-9429-afa083983803@gmx.at> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78785 Cc: hibbert@mydruthers.com, rudalics@gmx.at, 78785@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "78785@debbugs.gnu.org" <78785@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 17:21:26 +0000 > > And please mention it in (elisp) `Window History'. In Emacs > 30.1, that doc says nothing about the relation between option > `switch-to-prev-buffer-skip' and `kill-buffer'. That's > probably because there's no `kill-buffer-quit-windows' in 30.1, > but for 30.2+ it should be mentioned, I think. The kill-buffer-quit-windows option exists only starting from Emacs 31.1. 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Tue, 17 Jun 2025 15:33:38 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : bug#78785: 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#78785: 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find Thread-Index: AQHb33fPf+hwIvze/Em/oMJ8vdw8c7QHeqMg Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 15:33:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <861prkovy7.fsf@gnu.org> <498cc6d4-d13f-4376-9429-afa083983803@gmx.at> <86jz5aocfa.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <86jz5aocfa.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DS7PR10MB5232:EE_|PH7PR10MB5877:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6e070f45-a4b4-4b3d-931c-08ddadb454ae x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; ARA:13230040|366016|376014|1800799024|38070700018; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: =?us-ascii?Q?TgTod3cUkLLWvRDc7kY/UqZ+Cce9icEfttMECM51YqkafB/KApt0zEEF/Zm8?= =?us-ascii?Q?5BlgE7xKkGR3eixRszrU8RimGeeZlOBEcVN/ZzYj4Pev7e1UfJMYLvMmLnmX?= =?us-ascii?Q?BjfmUrvteVmNvbmPJJSgkMxaxTtDUs1xkUhoOYY0BNsiFl4fPIkHe0hWc/X1?= =?us-ascii?Q?mi3MLH09mtTeLWv7Diyb6Gx6RTInMvITBcjxci9Nq8/fK4JSdp9p7FZ3C6cv?= =?us-ascii?Q?030k52o6Y1BG/00YX+d/ugixAOhLCnO5WLlWr6C+mX+DOrQRp0RXzIGm9/0L?= =?us-ascii?Q?DBwV5J9pv239yINfcgihNb5Wz61ICTnNnbik8Y1nBOJYIR4PYHwBIsdLzcRJ?= =?us-ascii?Q?gXSnPWDv6vBpOTnn5xLpFv0vA9yMC7EHOaiIoedId+jOJ5ji1RCDIuK8MmTo?= =?us-ascii?Q?nHDyNGICAA+IBAVd8UnxgZVPuj8OAFRyLdV8lYnYcA/nSQWwlKWYcMZ+2ZOf?= =?us-ascii?Q?RZ+K9zytj82GHOlT3J1sqd8xUJXoMMOFSs3oQdhsxECMa2hXUorhfasbm5Ys?= =?us-ascii?Q?b8D+2Ni+6ElY0XWEOjG1QNRnyFd9Jhi8fxxjLK1fAhe3j5USATV4fpMpIvxM?= =?us-ascii?Q?k5SwmdQYoGjEdJa4RlGUTLV2uEx3TWkD0j2PCsuxHQPDhPdJtocZ2T9F5j2Z?= =?us-ascii?Q?WjP2l6mbDfJi4W+CyvGwhcO1JRRrZb3ek9gn7DmiWXAV4i5JytP2BxcAU7BG?= =?us-ascii?Q?UTTjD4LbVi6VzI1AzgQCQHR56dXqZuo5w1tz2XiCdDaP47Q+NEqYAKE6xsNs?= =?us-ascii?Q?cY73N+eJrXzkW77nmy/2bauHNtPY2cB/iJNP5urE+yZfPuy/lE0C1camh3So?= =?us-ascii?Q?MllmyQ8K1/kwEpzTtEbfDaveddfJjV8hmg3jhu2gn5cI2GR+/TnnLWDQD0Bg?= =?us-ascii?Q?gv3FiDnkXoHlwyRp0HY00AXopCmV3bx/OSw4Z8IMtQ1yFRbA1DsdQ1Yd9FHU?= =?us-ascii?Q?OH2sBAjdOh7MLtg1ZiSx1cUGnoi17vMlPo52+7/uxG56bHAIJ1ikIJQVTgCI?= =?us-ascii?Q?2LT56t2LaYAKCQdHSmLwqXR0ummHqhmnYA0KJd+qkHNeMrZChMXal410QXEa?= =?us-ascii?Q?5XACzFnp5zwGY0FnwsfGnZC0UdaqwU9FtVa3YyqERWyQjoWtQ2hygtC3GzR0?= =?us-ascii?Q?FQcQU2/pQnAZQap7Hr19ZruZE72wRh2zjoIcNtAVqjeE8Lcl9bP1NsaP5xtj?= =?us-ascii?Q?IC4f3lbRN/ZNq0twirPbxspH1Wu0l68jytc8Pma66LLs9CWvc5cFuLB2qXl/?= =?us-ascii?Q?1Mdy2II6Fep0WOKdHQ8kNXnJyYIMWJUHhB0iaLnSW3pI1wD9m23Sg7dnfhwa?= =?us-ascii?Q?iUZWj2zUdP8+2LiBh4HYIyLiKZAvXADlDkQytjQd1xTXmT6YasudpKe6opMp?= =?us-ascii?Q?f8lxAkUQFCIOISaCge8EnIk/vwNliOKBcdGLgqrf+upz86xYmzrjvfTrGVNU?= =?us-ascii?Q?S9CHcbzDf19KS81qgLxTr3YyijBX4YA7B7RPycb7MicIBJCZ9ucCNA=3D=3D?= x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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In Emacs > > 30.1, that doc says nothing about the relation between option > > `switch-to-prev-buffer-skip' and `kill-buffer'. That's > > probably because there's no `kill-buffer-quit-windows' in 30.1, > > but for 30.2+ it should be mentioned, I think. >=20 > The kill-buffer-quit-windows option exists only starting from > Emacs 31.1. OK (I was thinking it would be in 30.2). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 17 18:47:18 2025 Received: (at 78785) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jun 2025 22:47:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37241 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRf5J-0000v8-GH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 18:47:18 -0400 Received: from mailout05.yourhostingaccount.com ([65.254.254.69]:50017 helo=walmailout05.yourhostingaccount.com) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRf5F-0000uV-Ru for 78785@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 18:47:15 -0400 Received: from mailscan08.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.15.8] helo=walmailscan08.yourhostingaccount.com) by walmailout05.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1uRf5F-0002Pc-6k for 78785@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 18:47:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mydruthers.com; s=dkim; h=Sender:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: In-Reply-To:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID: Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender :Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=mKqerc3kXcJmL1ws5Eughuu5hqGF6TcDyFRUp9NOzZA=; b=spY7lfd+PgOmxXtPhPJS7Q4Nq2 tTapEPwlbLTXdm+a9R2PdJaUEhHx/GyrB8PbWeB/K4skjFlpxqZP8SL7Se+mqTW2TMguRUMhsoiN7 jciG7bpyooazJdUe5FeMiyJGED3V8BovENO1YXImv5YMsE9F+V3NuzKjkPdEyI9krrqeV8m5sfjUo nvLBXs8ZEWoAxdQ8v8saldwq6kqvygL1BHdOcrFpiRSYrvHKymB2uN5ylrbov/c3e0dwOU7G7Wz/H +wuoQsQwmne6OD0/59H87ugu/tF6PGwmowAbpwIOmJV0K6cfJtKQNd6miGN8oiyda25XfBj0zaj7E KnsRpGZg==; Received: from [10.114.3.21] (helo=walimpout01) by walmailscan08.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1uRf5E-0004DD-U8 for 78785@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 18:47:12 -0400 Received: from bosauthsmtp12.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.20.18.12]) by walimpout01 with id 2mn92F0090FdZ9W01mnChv; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 18:47:12 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Cu4kjkwD c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=wx0GOVZTcu8EuaXTIXj3VQ==:117 a=cpF7Eqom44z/YiAqok8hhA==:17 a=B6u2B_WX_xo6A_5L:21 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=6IFa9wvqVegA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=QjQeOHPwAAAA:8 a=PCNhs7OFAAAA:8 a=DazsQZTAAeuBmQ9Rpo8A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=lST3LNw9W4sA:10 a=cHOi9Wh7YEgA:10 a=uMKInByJaMASNJfg_52p:22 a=ZhFCym3q5arUram2UM69:22 Received: from 162-201-68-121.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net ([162.201.68.121]:50405 helo=[192.168.1.85]) by bosauthsmtp12.eigbox.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim) id 1uRf5B-0006vz-Do; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 18:47:09 -0400 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 15:47:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#78785: 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find To: Eli Zaretskii References: <861prkovy7.fsf@gnu.org> <6c653efe-d4ee-4642-8403-7198a0c9d95f@mydruthers.com> <86ldpqockk.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Chris Hibbert Organization: It's Just Me In-Reply-To: <86ldpqockk.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-EN-UserInfo: 9392f423407d376e16e13c6f9cad5711:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27 X-EN-AuthUser: notme@mydruthers.com X-EN-OrigIP: 162.201.68.121 X-EN-OrigHost: 162-201-68-121.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78785 Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, 78785@debbugs.gnu.org, shipmints@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) On 6/17/25 4:02 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Meanwhile, I don't think I understand what was your practical problem > with kill-buffer. Can you tell what you tried to achieve and what > information was missing in the documentation which would have helped > you do what you wanted? Because this discussion started without a > clear description of the original problem (and the StackExchange > discussion doesn't clarify that, either). > > Thanks. I'll reframe my original problem that led to the report. Meanwhile, I'll concede that I don't get how the two phase process that chooses a window and then a buffer to display (or is it vice-versa?) works, but I don't need to, I think. A thing that often happens to me is that I'm working on editing several files in multiple windows in a single frame to get some task done. At some point, I decide that I'm done, and I want to sequentially kill all the buffers, checking that they were saved (and I wasn't in the middle of something in each) as I go. Long ago, it was the case that each time I deleted one buffer, it would be replaced by a different relatively recently visited buffer, which I could take a look at, and then delete or edit, and then continue with clean-up. More recently, the behavior changed, so that after I had killed a few buffers, it would replace the killed buffer with another that was already visible. This meant I would kill a buffer, then ask emacs to give me a different recently-visited buffer, and then look at that one. If I have 3 or 4 windows open, when I kill the current one, showing in more than one window, both buffers are replaced in their windows by the same buffer. Now with (setq switch-to-prev-buffer-skip 'visible), I get the behavior I want. When I kill a buffer, I get to see a different recent buffer. If I kill a buffer that is displayed in more than one window, each window gets is replaced by a different recently visited buffer. I'm satisfied with this behavior, but I started this long discussion because I thought the manual on kill-buffer said that it did what I wanted in the default case. I don't think it does. https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Kill-Buffer.html#:~:text=C%2Dx%20k%20(%20kill%2Dbuffer%20),displayed%20in%20any%20window%20now. "If you kill the current buffer, another buffer becomes current: one that was current in the recent past but is not displayed in any window now." Chris -- Competition is virtually indistinguishable from anticompetitive behavior. Every firm strives to undercut its rivals, to put its rivals out of business, ... or to steal its rivals' customers. --- Geoffrey Manne and Justin Hurwitz, ICLE Chris Hibbert hibbert@mydruthers.com Blog: http://www.pancrit.org http://mydruthers.com