From unknown Thu Aug 14 20:55:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#7773: (lack of) config.h description in manual Resent-From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 00:11:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 7773 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 7773@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-automake@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.12940134066976 (code B ref -1); Mon, 03 Jan 2011 00:11:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2011 00:10:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZXzy-0001oT-0a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:10:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZXzw-0001nx-5M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:10:04 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZY6m-0004FR-3E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:17:08 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:37737) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZY6m-0004FM-0z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:17:08 -0500 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=47944 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PZY6k-0005l3-Qy for bug-automake@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:17:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZY6j-0004Ex-6U for bug-automake@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:17:06 -0500 Received: from b0.f7.net ([66.148.120.132]:36320 helo=freefriends.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZY6i-0004Ee-Ti for bug-automake@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:17:05 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org X-Envelope-To: Received: from freefriends.org (sls-af11p1 [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p030H0YK012133 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2011 19:17:03 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/submit) id p030H0T5012132; Mon, 3 Jan 2011 00:17:00 GMT Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 00:17:00 GMT Message-Id: <201101030017.p030H0T5012132@freefriends.org> X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: nobody set sender to karl@freefriends.org using -f From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Spam-Score: -5.8 (-----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.9 (-----) Following up to my own mail, it seems I have been missing something basic all these years, since it's never come up in my own packages: in order to use the directory variables like $(LIBDIR) in the code, it seems each package has to hack them in to config.h, e.g., via gnulib's "configmake" module. Right? This is surprising. A programmer coming to the autotools would hardly expect to have to write their own glue script merely to get access to the standard directories in the code. I strongly suggest explicitly discussing this in the manual. Maybe even showing an example of how to do it, or at least referring to gnulib's configmake. (It'd be even better IMHO to just make them standardly available in config.h somehow, e.g., as #define AM_LIBDIR and the like, but I can't wrap my mind around a real spec, sorry ...) Thanks, k From unknown Thu Aug 14 20:55:22 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.427 (Entity 5.427) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Subject: bug#7773: closed (Re: bug#7773: (lack of) config.h description in manual) Message-ID: References: <20110103024310.GA28978@gmx.de> <201101030017.p030H0T5012132@freefriends.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 7773 X-Gnu-PR-Package: automake Reply-To: 7773@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 02:37:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1294022222-21870-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1294022222-21870-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #7773: (lack of) config.h description in manual which was filed against the automake package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 7773@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 7773: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D7773 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1294022222-21870-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 7773-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2011 02:36:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZaHL-0005fg-2u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 21:36:11 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.23] helo=mail.gmx.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZaHH-0005fI-JW for 7773-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 21:36:09 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Jan 2011 02:43:11 -0000 Received: from xdsl-89-0-182-244.netcologne.de (EHLO localhost.localdomain) [89.0.182.244] by mail.gmx.net (mp039) with SMTP; 03 Jan 2011 03:43:11 +0100 X-Authenticated: #13673931 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+ziLst6tWzTCkbQ8JLUL654NXoyS3s29T2SjPBjK c5AoeUfFdalq5T Received: from ralf by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZaO6-0007YH-Jm; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 03:43:10 +0100 Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 03:43:10 +0100 From: Ralf Wildenhues To: Karl Berry Subject: Re: bug#7773: (lack of) config.h description in manual Message-ID: <20110103024310.GA28978@gmx.de> References: <201101030017.p030H0T5012132@freefriends.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201101030017.p030H0T5012132@freefriends.org> Organization: Institute for Numerical Simulation, University of Bonn User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2010-08-04) X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 7773-done Cc: 7773-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Hi Karl, * Karl Berry wrote on Mon, Jan 03, 2011 at 01:17:00AM CET: > Following up to my own mail, No. :-) This opened a new bug report. I'm closing it, for reasons explained below. > it seems I have been missing something > basic all these years, since it's never come up in my own packages: in > order to use the directory variables like $(LIBDIR) in the code, it > seems each package has to hack them in to config.h, e.g., via gnulib's > "configmake" module. Right? Well, the configmake module is an application of the technique described in info Autoconf "Defining Directories" > This is surprising. A programmer coming to the autotools would hardly > expect to have to write their own glue script merely to get access to > the standard directories in the code. All discussed in above node. > I strongly suggest explicitly discussing this in the manual. Maybe even > showing an example of how to do it, All done above. No, I do not think that automake.info should repeat all of autoconf.info information. > or at least referring to gnulib's configmake. Feel free to send a patch to autoconf-patches to amend that (or just write there, and one of us will get to it). Thanks. > (It'd be even better IMHO to just make them standardly available in > config.h somehow, e.g., as #define AM_LIBDIR and the like, but I can't > wrap my mind around a real spec, sorry ...) That does not work, and the above node explains why: the GNU Coding Standards forbid it, implicitly. Cheers, Ralf ------------=_1294022222-21870-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2011 00:10:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZXzy-0001oT-0a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:10:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZXzw-0001nx-5M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:10:04 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZY6m-0004FR-3E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:17:08 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:37737) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZY6m-0004FM-0z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:17:08 -0500 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=47944 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PZY6k-0005l3-Qy for bug-automake@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:17:07 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZY6j-0004Ex-6U for bug-automake@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:17:06 -0500 Received: from b0.f7.net ([66.148.120.132]:36320 helo=freefriends.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PZY6i-0004Ee-Ti for bug-automake@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 19:17:05 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org X-Envelope-To: Received: from freefriends.org (sls-af11p1 [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p030H0YK012133 for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2011 19:17:03 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/submit) id p030H0T5012132; Mon, 3 Jan 2011 00:17:00 GMT Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 00:17:00 GMT Message-Id: <201101030017.p030H0T5012132@freefriends.org> X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: nobody set sender to karl@freefriends.org using -f From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) To: bug-automake@gnu.org Subject: Re: (lack of) config.h description in manual X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Spam-Score: -5.8 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.9 (-----) Following up to my own mail, it seems I have been missing something basic all these years, since it's never come up in my own packages: in order to use the directory variables like $(LIBDIR) in the code, it seems each package has to hack them in to config.h, e.g., via gnulib's "configmake" module. Right? This is surprising. A programmer coming to the autotools would hardly expect to have to write their own glue script merely to get access to the standard directories in the code. I strongly suggest explicitly discussing this in the manual. Maybe even showing an example of how to do it, or at least referring to gnulib's configmake. (It'd be even better IMHO to just make them standardly available in config.h somehow, e.g., as #define AM_LIBDIR and the like, but I can't wrap my mind around a real spec, sorry ...) Thanks, k ------------=_1294022222-21870-1-- From unknown Thu Aug 14 20:55:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#7773: (lack of) config.h description in manual References: <201101030017.p030H0T5012132@freefriends.org> Resent-From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 23:54:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7773 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Ralf.Wildenhues@gmx.de Cc: 7773@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 7773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B7773.12940987952888 (code B ref 7773); Mon, 03 Jan 2011 23:54:02 +0000 Received: (at 7773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2011 23:53:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZuDD-0000kX-HS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 18:53:15 -0500 Received: from b0.f7.net ([66.148.120.132] helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZuDA-0000kL-K9 for 7773@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 18:53:13 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (sls-af11p1 [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p0400Gx3002234; Mon, 3 Jan 2011 19:00:19 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/submit) id p0400GJq002233; Tue, 4 Jan 2011 00:00:16 GMT Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 00:00:16 GMT Message-Id: <201101040000.p0400GJq002233@freefriends.org> X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: nobody set sender to karl@freefriends.org using -f From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) In-Reply-To: <20110103024310.GA28978@gmx.de> X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.8 (---) Hi Ralf, I'm closing it, for reasons explained below. And I'm reopening it, maybe. Not too clear on debbugs interactions. No, I do not think that automake.info should repeat all of autoconf.info information. Me either. I don't ever intend to suggest creating such redundancy. info Autoconf "Defining Directories" Thanks for the reference. Now that I know it, I suggest the Automake manual simply have a sentence with an xref to that node. Why? Because many people (e.g., almost all the new GNU maintainers) come to the autotools through automake. A pointer would help them (just as it would have helped me, but anyway) For example, as part of the amhello explanation: --- ORIG/automake.texi 2011-01-02 00:24:40.000000000 -0800 +++ automake.texi 2011-01-03 15:57:50.000000000 -0800 @@ -1737,4 +1737,9 @@ @file{README} during @code{make install}. +One thing not covered in this example is accessing the installation +directory values (@pxref{Standard Directory Variables}) from your +program code, that is, getting them into @file{config.h}. For this, +@pxref{Defining Directories,,, autoconf, Autoconf}. + @node Generalities That does not work, and the above node explains why: the GNU Coding Standards forbid it, implicitly. Hmm, I'm not so sure that the GCS forbids doing the right thing (or that it has to stay that way even if it does), but I won't pursue it further. Life goes on. Thanks, k From unknown Thu Aug 14 20:55:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#7773: (lack of) config.h description in manual Resent-From: Eric Blake Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 00:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7773 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Karl Berry Cc: Ralf.Wildenhues@gmx.de, "bug-autoconf@gnu.org" , 7773@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 7773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B7773.12941007995641 (code B ref 7773); Tue, 04 Jan 2011 00:27:02 +0000 Received: (at 7773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2011 00:26:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZujX-0001Sw-E6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 19:26:39 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZujV-0001Sj-5t for 7773@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 19:26:38 -0500 Received: from int-mx09.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx09.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.22]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p040XiCu008417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 3 Jan 2011 19:33:44 -0500 Received: from [10.3.113.114] (ovpn-113-114.phx2.redhat.com [10.3.113.114]) by int-mx09.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p040XhA4021670; Mon, 3 Jan 2011 19:33:43 -0500 Message-ID: <4D226AE6.2020003@redhat.com> Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 17:33:42 -0700 From: Eric Blake Organization: Red Hat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101209 Fedora/3.1.7-0.35.b3pre.fc14 Lightning/1.0b3pre Mnenhy/0.8.3 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201101030017.p030H0T5012132@freefriends.org> <201101040000.p0400GJq002233@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: <201101040000.p0400GJq002233@freefriends.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 OpenPGP: url=http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigE8DAC864BE0BDA8D57495DD3" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.22 X-Spam-Score: -10.2 (----------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -10.2 (----------) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigE8DAC864BE0BDA8D57495DD3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [adding bug-autoconf] On 01/03/2011 05:00 PM, Karl Berry wrote: > Thanks for the reference. Now that I know it, I suggest the Automake > manual simply have a sentence with an xref to that node. Why? Because= > many people (e.g., almost all the new GNU maintainers) come to the > autotools through automake. A pointer would help them (just as it woul= d > have helped me, but anyway) >=20 > For example, as part of the amhello explanation: >=20 > --- ORIG/automake.texi 2011-01-02 00:24:40.000000000 -0800 > +++ automake.texi 2011-01-03 15:57:50.000000000 -0800 > @@ -1737,4 +1737,9 @@ > @file{README} during @code{make install}. > =20 > +One thing not covered in this example is accessing the installation > +directory values (@pxref{Standard Directory Variables}) from your > +program code, that is, getting them into @file{config.h}. For this, > +@pxref{Defining Directories,,, autoconf, Autoconf}. The subtle point here is that installation directory values _cannot_ live in (which is determined at configure time), but must live somewhere determined at make time (either "configmake.h", or by adding appropriate -Dabc=3Dxyz arguments to CFLAGS). So I agree with adding a sentence, but it must be worded something like: +One thing not covered in this example is accessing the installation +directory values (@pxref{Standard Directory Variables}) from your +program code, that is, converting them into defined macros. For this, +@pxref{Defining Directories,,, autoconf, Autoconf}. I also agree that the autoconf manual should mention the gnulib 'configmake' module (it doesn't, yet). > Hmm, I'm not so sure that the GCS forbids doing the right thing (or tha= t > it has to stay that way even if it does), but I won't pursue it further= =2E What the GCS requires is that you can do 'make prefix=3D/alternate/path' and have that propagate through all the directory variables. Anything learned at configure time can thus be rewritten at make time, so the only safe place to record a directory variable's value is at make time. I don't think this aspect of the GCS needs changing. One other thing to point out is that the GCS documents that 'make install' should ideally not rebuild any source code, but that this ideal is only possible if you either _don't_ use 'make prefix=3D...', or if you= use the same prefix in both 'make prefix=3D...' and 'make install prefix=3D= =2E..'. --=20 Eric Blake eblake@redhat.com +1-801-349-2682 Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org --------------enigE8DAC864BE0BDA8D57495DD3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Public key at http://people.redhat.com/eblake/eblake.gpg Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJNImrmAAoJEKeha0olJ0NqKf0IAJOEHYgOuX7na1M/k1YSh5yQ WaHINAymSk//WLXFJ77yDmxaO7EOVV/zIVTk+/n3pMbch553tBhXUi6XodbEbEA7 ROQB75sjpfHa1D5/h2rrcdCU35GVD7cYpiZAeM5S9rM/wfMIeMXITmGOns8WvgSN fo4IxcWzS5w5G6rJuTDOOQloLepy0cHXLPCHf8OErURx8IvwDaUz0IpIahki/jW5 5QixLSgIiLkkFLKW74r7wpCj1yYrSgrJL0LUSbXFPFr1Y59vA2YG3aNiOefcmqxB NQy6FFyoh37asqwbNnDlZ/LNUPvBbxByA616j4C8pI9dpBTTGdnSmOju7hZ/EE0= =bZxV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigE8DAC864BE0BDA8D57495DD3-- From unknown Thu Aug 14 20:55:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#7773: (lack of) config.h description in manual Resent-From: Ralf Wildenhues Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 07:07:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7773 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eric Blake Cc: "bug-autoconf@gnu.org" , 7773@debbugs.gnu.org, Karl Berry Received: via spool by 7773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B7773.12941247896331 (code B ref 7773); Tue, 04 Jan 2011 07:07:02 +0000 Received: (at 7773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2011 07:06:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Pa0yT-0001dE-2G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 02:06:29 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22] helo=mail.gmx.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Pa0yQ-0001cy-Fg for 7773@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 02:06:27 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 04 Jan 2011 07:13:34 -0000 Received: from xdsl-78-34-210-142.netcologne.de (EHLO localhost.localdomain) [78.34.210.142] by mail.gmx.net (mp052) with SMTP; 04 Jan 2011 08:13:34 +0100 X-Authenticated: #13673931 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18WLT8SlQcWsd1EJlgkWfbAULHKbWAMbXc//I1nhN Mxq7cgG28ZxvJ5 Received: from ralf by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Pa15J-0002Gr-75; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 08:13:33 +0100 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 08:13:33 +0100 From: Ralf Wildenhues Message-ID: <20110104071332.GB5633@gmx.de> Mail-Followup-To: Eric Blake , Karl Berry , 7773@debbugs.gnu.org, "bug-autoconf@gnu.org" References: <201101030017.p030H0T5012132@freefriends.org> <201101040000.p0400GJq002233@freefriends.org> <4D226AE6.2020003@redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4D226AE6.2020003@redhat.com> Organization: Institute for Numerical Simulation, University of Bonn User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2010-08-04) X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.1 (---) Hello Karl, Eric, * Eric Blake wrote on Tue, Jan 04, 2011 at 01:33:42AM CET: > On 01/03/2011 05:00 PM, Karl Berry wrote: > > Thanks for the reference. Now that I know it, I suggest the Automake > > manual simply have a sentence with an xref to that node. Yes, I agree with that, and I am still going to do that. You opened two bug reports originally (inadvertently), I only closed the one that was dealt with. Sorry if that was unclear before. > > Hmm, I'm not so sure that the GCS forbids doing the right thing (or that > > it has to stay that way even if it does), but I won't pursue it further. > > What the GCS requires is that you can do 'make prefix=/alternate/path' > and have that propagate through all the directory variables. Anything > learned at configure time can thus be rewritten at make time, so the > only safe place to record a directory variable's value is at make time. > I don't think this aspect of the GCS needs changing. > > One other thing to point out is that the GCS documents that 'make > install' should ideally not rebuild any source code, but that this ideal > is only possible if you either _don't_ use 'make prefix=...', or if you > use the same prefix in both 'make prefix=...' and 'make install prefix=...'. I don't think that is correct. In fact, I think it is entirely intended to be possible to use a different prefix= setting for the all and for the install targets, and the latter should still not rebuild sources. Sort of a poor-man's DESTDIR. You can see the usefulness on MSYS and DJGPP (where DESTDIR does not work due to drive prefix concatenation). (Of course Libtool doesn't support the non-DESTDIR way, but that's another story ...) Cheers, Ralf From unknown Thu Aug 14 20:55:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#7773: (lack of) config.h description in manual Resent-From: Jack Kelly Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 14:47:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7773 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eric Blake , Karl Berry , 7773@debbugs.gnu.org, "bug-autoconf@gnu.org" Received: via spool by 7773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B7773.129415239815014 (code B ref 7773); Tue, 04 Jan 2011 14:47:02 +0000 Received: (at 7773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2011 14:46:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Pa89m-0003u6-6l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:46:38 -0500 Received: from mail-qw0-f44.google.com ([209.85.216.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Pa89j-0003tt-Fk for 7773@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:46:36 -0500 Received: by qwg5 with SMTP id 5so14255002qwg.3 for <7773@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 06:53:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=E30It6E0ztkORGj5lSlmoIasj+W0tcIJpXS6lNDU9Ac=; b=Su/xXq4fGXO+nWZGwCRD33OPJxNfHtz4rFEstDA06KkkuEE2fP0Ss19EfL8i5LelDu tRu2zDoXi4MCcvTcSdOVbbGYPX2kHT/qXsSj0gtGbxdCcdsRtZrle8otbeUbLvybCA1x bULxyarQfjbipbRkQ71zkZO1wPEMZUMLexuds= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=S/Sq8DgvsYLxIrm3SgU0Np+tiOx6P/VgzoyMVLORSuqF3rKD4UlS2joCBdpzeM0aSA 9Q/fZz1PlB7+UxB42kRNaowdrQnRD9pxPNW4xLIz+bakHXOI4ph0caZPSh3bhT8UBUk7 KJWujCj6HQDnTUQUpZxI+nmRfJkk5S0Z2C8LE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.2.71 with SMTP id 7mr21285751qai.4.1294152824390; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 06:53:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.195.137 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Jan 2011 06:53:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20110104071332.GB5633@gmx.de> References: <201101030017.p030H0T5012132@freefriends.org> <201101040000.p0400GJq002233@freefriends.org> <4D226AE6.2020003@redhat.com> <20110104071332.GB5633@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 01:53:44 +1100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: kXOCCo6ozlkvK0wlPAUsFhxeQGU Message-ID: From: Jack Kelly Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.9 (---) I disagree that `make prefix=3D... install' is a poor man's DESTDIR. Installing using DESTDIR will install things in $(DESTDIR)/$(prefix)/bin (and so on), which is a right pain when it comes to using something like GNU Stow to manage /usr/local. -- Jack On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Ralf Wildenhues wr= ote: > Hello Karl, Eric, > > * Eric Blake wrote on Tue, Jan 04, 2011 at 01:33:42AM CET: >> On 01/03/2011 05:00 PM, Karl Berry wrote: >> > Thanks for the reference. =A0Now that I know it, I suggest the Automak= e >> > manual simply have a sentence with an xref to that node. > > Yes, I agree with that, and I am still going to do that. =A0You opened tw= o > bug reports originally (inadvertently), I only closed the one that was > dealt with. =A0Sorry if that was unclear before. > >> > Hmm, I'm not so sure that the GCS forbids doing the right thing (or th= at >> > it has to stay that way even if it does), but I won't pursue it furthe= r. >> >> What the GCS requires is that you can do 'make prefix=3D/alternate/path' >> and have that propagate through all the directory variables. =A0Anything >> learned at configure time can thus be rewritten at make time, so the >> only safe place to record a directory variable's value is at make time. >> =A0I don't think this aspect of the GCS needs changing. >> >> One other thing to point out is that the GCS documents that 'make >> install' should ideally not rebuild any source code, but that this ideal >> is only possible if you either _don't_ use 'make prefix=3D...', or if yo= u >> use the same prefix in both 'make prefix=3D...' and 'make install prefix= =3D...'. > > I don't think that is correct. =A0In fact, I think it is entirely intende= d > to be possible to use a different prefix=3D setting for the all and for > the install targets, and the latter should still not rebuild sources. > Sort of a poor-man's DESTDIR. =A0You can see the usefulness on MSYS and > DJGPP (where DESTDIR does not work due to drive prefix concatenation). > (Of course Libtool doesn't support the non-DESTDIR way, but that's > another story ...) > > Cheers, > Ralf > > > > From unknown Thu Aug 14 20:55:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#7773: (lack of) config.h description in manual Resent-From: Ralf Wildenhues Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 21:20:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7773 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jack Kelly Cc: "bug-autoconf@gnu.org" , Eric Blake , 7773@debbugs.gnu.org, Karl Berry Received: via spool by 7773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B7773.129417598322826 (code B ref 7773); Tue, 04 Jan 2011 21:20:03 +0000 Received: (at 7773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2011 21:19:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PaEIB-0005w7-2J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 16:19:43 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22] helo=mail.gmx.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PaEI8-0005vu-QN for 7773@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 16:19:41 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 04 Jan 2011 21:26:46 -0000 Received: from xdsl-78-34-213-5.netcologne.de (EHLO localhost.localdomain) [78.34.213.5] by mail.gmx.net (mp056) with SMTP; 04 Jan 2011 22:26:46 +0100 X-Authenticated: #13673931 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+VYG0D7YmV6MZipgMmQWqCIMWNRckLD+llv5WE+K FgaCT2FxzJ92fV Received: from ralf by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PaEOz-0002Dz-Dt; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 22:26:45 +0100 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 22:26:45 +0100 From: Ralf Wildenhues Message-ID: <20110104212645.GE6603@gmx.de> Mail-Followup-To: Jack Kelly , Eric Blake , Karl Berry , 7773@debbugs.gnu.org, "bug-autoconf@gnu.org" References: <201101030017.p030H0T5012132@freefriends.org> <201101040000.p0400GJq002233@freefriends.org> <4D226AE6.2020003@redhat.com> <20110104071332.GB5633@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Organization: Institute for Numerical Simulation, University of Bonn User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2010-08-04) X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) Hello Jack, * Jack Kelly wrote on Tue, Jan 04, 2011 at 03:53:44PM CET: > I disagree that `make prefix=... install' is a poor man's DESTDIR. OK ok, I didn't mean to offend anyone here. > Installing using DESTDIR will install things in > $(DESTDIR)/$(prefix)/bin (and so on), which is a right pain when it > comes to using something like GNU Stow to manage /usr/local. Sure. Still, please don't top-post. Thanks, Ralf From unknown Thu Aug 14 20:55:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#7773: (lack of) config.h description in manual Resent-From: Ralf Wildenhues Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-automake@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:02:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7773 X-GNU-PR-Package: automake X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eric Blake , automake-patches@gnu.org Cc: "bug-autoconf@gnu.org" , 7773@debbugs.gnu.org, Karl Berry Received: via spool by 7773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B7773.129447729015360 (code B ref 7773); Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:02:01 +0000 Received: (at 7773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2011 09:01:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PbUfx-0003zh-VD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 04:01:30 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22] helo=mail.gmx.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PbUfv-0003zU-0B for 7773@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 04:01:28 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Jan 2011 09:08:45 -0000 Received: from xdsl-89-0-77-84.netcologne.de (EHLO localhost.localdomain) [89.0.77.84] by mail.gmx.net (mp028) with SMTP; 08 Jan 2011 10:08:45 +0100 X-Authenticated: #13673931 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+h3FYz4N+hhDiQI7WWJ3yz4Sw8GfYRAYdZf/QVBS UZu0T8JzKPXeuZ Received: from ralf by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PbUmy-0000pN-A3; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 10:08:44 +0100 Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 10:08:44 +0100 From: Ralf Wildenhues Message-ID: <20110108090844.GC14536@gmx.de> Mail-Followup-To: Eric Blake , automake-patches@gnu.org, Karl Berry , 7773@debbugs.gnu.org, "bug-autoconf@gnu.org" References: <201101030017.p030H0T5012132@freefriends.org> <201101040000.p0400GJq002233@freefriends.org> <4D226AE6.2020003@redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4D226AE6.2020003@redhat.com> Organization: Institute for Numerical Simulation, University of Bonn User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2010-08-04) X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) As part of addressing Automake bug#7766 and bug#7773, I'm pushing the following in Karl's name, to the maint branch. Cheers, Ralf 2011-01-08 Karl Berry Eric Blake docs: reference defining directories in amhello node. * doc/automake.texi (amhello Explained): Point to Autoconf manual for how to convert directory values into macros. (Optional): Fix grammar nit. diff --git a/doc/automake.texi b/doc/automake.texi index 43ad581..c63dbf3 100644 --- a/doc/automake.texi +++ b/doc/automake.texi @@ -1736,6 +1736,11 @@ amhello Explained The only important effect of this second line is therefore to install @file{README} during @code{make install}. +One thing not covered in this example is accessing the installation +directory values (@pxref{Standard Directory Variables}) from your +program code, that is, converting them into defined macros. For this, +@pxref{Defining Directories,,, autoconf, The Autoconf Manual}. + @node Generalities @chapter General ideas @@ -2905,7 +2910,7 @@ Optional of Automake required the use of @code{AM_CONFIG_HEADER} (@pxref{Macros}); this is no longer the case. -As for @code{AC_CONFIG_FILES} (@pxref{Requirements}), parts of the +As with @code{AC_CONFIG_FILES} (@pxref{Requirements}), parts of the specification using shell variables will be ignored as far as cleaning, distributing, and rebuilding is concerned.