GNU bug report logs - #77549
ELPA: Duplicate entries for GNU Poke?

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jeremy Bryant <jb <at> jeremybryant.net>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org, Jose E. Marchesi <jemarch <at> gnu.org>, Philip
 Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Subject: ELPA: Duplicate entries for GNU Poke?
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2025 13:38:05 +0100

There are apparently 2 entries for GNU poke in GNU ELPA:
poke version 3.2 and poke-mode version 3.1

Both list maintainer Jose Marchesi (CC'd)

Message #8 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org>
To: Jeremy Bryant <jb <at> jeremybryant.net>
Cc: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Subject: Re: ELPA: Duplicate entries for GNU Poke?
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2025 15:55:15 +0200

These are two different modes.

poke.el is an Emacs interface for poke.

poke-mode.el is a mode to edit programs written in Poke, the programming
language implemented by poke.

> There are apparently 2 entries for GNU poke in GNU ELPA:
> poke version 3.2 and poke-mode version 3.1
>
> Both list maintainer Jose Marchesi (CC'd)

Message #11 received at 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
To: "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, jb <at> jeremybryant.net, philipk <at> posteo.net
Subject: Re: bug#77549: ELPA: Duplicate entries for GNU Poke?
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2025 06:48:37 -0400

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > poke.el is an Emacs interface for poke.

  > poke-mode.el is a mode to edit programs written in Poke, the programming
  > language implemented by poke.

It makes sense now that you've explained it, but the simiarity will
surely cause confusion.  Can we adjust the names to make the
difference clear?  Of course, both names should mention Poke.
but they can differ more.

Perhaps the interface to Poke should be called poke-interface or
subpoke.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Message #14 received at 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org>
To: Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, jb <at> jeremybryant.net, philipk <at> posteo.net
Subject: Re: bug#77549: ELPA: Duplicate entries for GNU Poke?
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2025 16:31:32 +0200

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
>   > poke.el is an Emacs interface for poke.
>
>   > poke-mode.el is a mode to edit programs written in Poke, the programming
>   > language implemented by poke.
>
> It makes sense now that you've explained it, but the simiarity will
> surely cause confusion.  Can we adjust the names to make the
> difference clear?  Of course, both names should mention Poke.
> but they can differ more.
>
> Perhaps the interface to Poke should be called poke-interface or
> subpoke.

What about renaming poke-mode.el to poke-lang-mode.el?

Message #17 received at 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
To: "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, jb <at> jeremybryant.net, Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#77549: ELPA: Duplicate entries for GNU Poke?
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2025 16:18:06 +0000

"Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
>> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
>> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>>
>>   > poke.el is an Emacs interface for poke.
>>
>>   > poke-mode.el is a mode to edit programs written in Poke, the programming
>>   > language implemented by poke.
>>
>> It makes sense now that you've explained it, but the simiarity will
>> surely cause confusion.  Can we adjust the names to make the
>> difference clear?  Of course, both names should mention Poke.
>> but they can differ more.
>>
>> Perhaps the interface to Poke should be called poke-interface or
>> subpoke.
>
> What about renaming poke-mode.el to poke-lang-mode.el?

I have to admit that "-lang-mode" sounds off.  Is there a reason you
don't bundle poke-mode.el with the poke package?

Message #20 received at 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, jb <at> jeremybryant.net, Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#77549: ELPA: Duplicate entries for GNU Poke?
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2025 18:24:09 +0200

> "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
>>> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
>>> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>>>
>>>   > poke.el is an Emacs interface for poke.
>>>
>>>   > poke-mode.el is a mode to edit programs written in Poke, the programming
>>>   > language implemented by poke.
>>>
>>> It makes sense now that you've explained it, but the simiarity will
>>> surely cause confusion.  Can we adjust the names to make the
>>> difference clear?  Of course, both names should mention Poke.
>>> but they can differ more.
>>>
>>> Perhaps the interface to Poke should be called poke-interface or
>>> subpoke.
>>
>> What about renaming poke-mode.el to poke-lang-mode.el?
>
> I have to admit that "-lang-mode" sounds off.  Is there a reason you
> don't bundle poke-mode.el with the poke package?

poke-mode.el is useful even if you don't use the Emacs interface to
poke.

I myself use the poke CLI primarily, and still use poke-mode.el all the
time to write my .pk files.

Then, what about to rename poke.el into something else.  Suggestions?

Message #23 received at 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jeremy Bryant <jb <at> jeremybryant.net>
To: "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>,
 Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#77549: ELPA: Duplicate entries for GNU Poke?
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2025 22:10:57 +0100

"Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>>>   > poke.el is an Emacs interface for poke.
>>>>
>>>>   > poke-mode.el is a mode to edit programs written in Poke, the programming
>>>>   > language implemented by poke.
>>>>
>>>> It makes sense now that you've explained it, but the simiarity will
>>>> surely cause confusion.  Can we adjust the names to make the
>>>> difference clear?  Of course, both names should mention Poke.
>>>> but they can differ more.
>>>>

Yes, and the description of these as displayed by list-packages could be
updated to clearer text?
poke.el is described as 'Emacs meets GNU poke!'


>>>> Perhaps the interface to Poke should be called poke-interface or
>>>> subpoke.
>>>
>>> What about renaming poke-mode.el to poke-lang-mode.el?
>>
>> I have to admit that "-lang-mode" sounds off.  Is there a reason you
>> don't bundle poke-mode.el with the poke package?
>
> poke-mode.el is useful even if you don't use the Emacs interface to
> poke.
>
> I myself use the poke CLI primarily, and still use poke-mode.el all the
> time to write my .pk files.
>
> Then, what about to rename poke.el into something else.  Suggestions?

How would you describe the advantage of using poke.el rather than using
M-x shell, and then poke?

Message #26 received at 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
To: "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, jb <at> jeremybryant.net, Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#77549: ELPA: Duplicate entries for GNU Poke?
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2025 15:10:01 +0000

"Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>>> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
>>>> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
>>>> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>>>>
>>>>   > poke.el is an Emacs interface for poke.
>>>>
>>>>   > poke-mode.el is a mode to edit programs written in Poke, the programming
>>>>   > language implemented by poke.
>>>>
>>>> It makes sense now that you've explained it, but the simiarity will
>>>> surely cause confusion.  Can we adjust the names to make the
>>>> difference clear?  Of course, both names should mention Poke.
>>>> but they can differ more.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the interface to Poke should be called poke-interface or
>>>> subpoke.
>>>
>>> What about renaming poke-mode.el to poke-lang-mode.el?
>>
>> I have to admit that "-lang-mode" sounds off.  Is there a reason you
>> don't bundle poke-mode.el with the poke package?
>
> poke-mode.el is useful even if you don't use the Emacs interface to
> poke.

But that is not inherently a reason to package both features in the same
package.  The user gets both the Poke interface and poke-mode in the
same package, but they don't have to use everything.

> I myself use the poke CLI primarily, and still use poke-mode.el all the
> time to write my .pk files.
>
> Then, what about to rename poke.el into something else.  Suggestions?

Message #29 received at 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>,
 "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, jb <at> jeremybryant.net, Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#77549: ELPA: Duplicate entries for GNU Poke?
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2025 17:12:32 -0700

>>> I have to admit that "-lang-mode" sounds off.  Is there a reason you
>>> don't bundle poke-mode.el with the poke package?
>>
>> poke-mode.el is useful even if you don't use the Emacs interface to
>> poke.
>
> But that is not inherently a reason to package both features in the same
> package.  The user gets both the Poke interface and poke-mode in the
> same package, but they don't have to use everything.

Agreed.  Having a few unused autoloaded functions is very cheap.

Message #32 received at 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, jb <at> jeremybryant.net, Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#77549: ELPA: Duplicate entries for GNU Poke?
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2025 10:44:57 +0200

> "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org> writes:
>>>
>>>>> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
>>>>> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
>>>>> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>>>>>
>>>>>   > poke.el is an Emacs interface for poke.
>>>>>
>>>>>   > poke-mode.el is a mode to edit programs written in Poke, the programming
>>>>>   > language implemented by poke.
>>>>>
>>>>> It makes sense now that you've explained it, but the simiarity will
>>>>> surely cause confusion.  Can we adjust the names to make the
>>>>> difference clear?  Of course, both names should mention Poke.
>>>>> but they can differ more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps the interface to Poke should be called poke-interface or
>>>>> subpoke.
>>>>
>>>> What about renaming poke-mode.el to poke-lang-mode.el?
>>>
>>> I have to admit that "-lang-mode" sounds off.  Is there a reason you
>>> don't bundle poke-mode.el with the poke package?
>>
>> poke-mode.el is useful even if you don't use the Emacs interface to
>> poke.
>
> But that is not inherently a reason to package both features in the same
> package.  The user gets both the Poke interface and poke-mode in the
> same package, but they don't have to use everything.

That would require a multi-file package?


>> I myself use the poke CLI primarily, and still use poke-mode.el all the
>> time to write my .pk files.
>>
>> Then, what about to rename poke.el into something else.  Suggestions?

Message #35 received at 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
To: "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 77549 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, jb <at> jeremybryant.net, Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#77549: ELPA: Duplicate entries for GNU Poke?
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2025 11:33:57 +0000

Yes, but is that an issue for you?

On 10 April 2025 10:44:57 CEST, "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org> wrote:
>
>> "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>>> "Jose E. Marchesi" <jemarch <at> gnu.org> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
>>>>>> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
>>>>>> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   > poke.el is an Emacs interface for poke.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   > poke-mode.el is a mode to edit programs written in Poke, the programming
>>>>>>   > language implemented by poke.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It makes sense now that you've explained it, but the simiarity will
>>>>>> surely cause confusion.  Can we adjust the names to make the
>>>>>> difference clear?  Of course, both names should mention Poke.
>>>>>> but they can differ more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps the interface to Poke should be called poke-interface or
>>>>>> subpoke.
>>>>>
>>>>> What about renaming poke-mode.el to poke-lang-mode.el?
>>>>
>>>> I have to admit that "-lang-mode" sounds off.  Is there a reason you
>>>> don't bundle poke-mode.el with the poke package?
>>>
>>> poke-mode.el is useful even if you don't use the Emacs interface to
>>> poke.
>>
>> But that is not inherently a reason to package both features in the same
>> package.  The user gets both the Poke interface and poke-mode in the
>> same package, but they don't have to use everything.
>
>That would require a multi-file package?
>
>
>>> I myself use the poke CLI primarily, and still use poke-mode.el all the
>>> time to write my .pk files.
>>>
>>> Then, what about to rename poke.el into something else.  Suggestions?

Sent from my phone

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