GNU bug report logs - #77492
AppStream metadata updates

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: AppStream metadata updates
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2025 15:23:24 +0100 (BST)

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Attached are three patches related to etc/emacs.metainfo.xml.

-- 
Peter Oliver

[0001-Add-AppStream-metadata-about-supported-and-recommend.patch (text/plain, attachment)]

[0002-Tweak-AppStream-metadata-to-satisfy-appstream-util-v.patch (text/plain, attachment)]

[0003-Provide-Open-Age-Ratings-Service-metadata.patch (text/plain, attachment)]

Message #8 received at 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
Cc: 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#77492: AppStream metadata updates
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2025 12:53:52 +0300

> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2025 15:23:24 +0100 (BST)
> From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
> 
> Attached are three patches related to etc/emacs.metainfo.xml.

Thanks.

Could someone who uses macOS please review this?

Message #11 received at 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#77492: AppStream metadata updates
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2025 16:50:22 +0100

On 5 April 2025 10:53:52 BST, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
>> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2025 15:23:24 +0100 (BST)
>> From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
>> 
>> Attached are three patches related to etc/emacs.metainfo.xml.
>
>Could someone who uses macOS please review this?


This is a freedesktop.org file format (https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/chap-AppStream-About.html#about-whatis).  Unless I'm missing something, I don't think it relates to macOS.

-- 
Peter Oliver

Message #14 received at 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
Cc: 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#77492: AppStream metadata updates
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2025 19:13:22 +0300

> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2025 16:50:22 +0100
> From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
> CC: 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On 5 April 2025 10:53:52 BST, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> >> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2025 15:23:24 +0100 (BST)
> >> From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
> >> 
> >> Attached are three patches related to etc/emacs.metainfo.xml.
> >
> >Could someone who uses macOS please review this?
> 
> 
> This is a freedesktop.org file format (https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/chap-AppStream-About.html#about-whatis).  Unless I'm missing something, I don't think it relates to macOS.

OK, then my request is for users of Freedesktop environments.

Message #19 received at 77492-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk
Cc: 77492-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#77492: AppStream metadata updates
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2025 16:44:52 +0300

> Cc: 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2025 19:13:22 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
> 
> > Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2025 16:50:22 +0100
> > From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
> > CC: 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > 
> > On 5 April 2025 10:53:52 BST, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> > >> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2025 15:23:24 +0100 (BST)
> > >> From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
> > >> 
> > >> Attached are three patches related to etc/emacs.metainfo.xml.
> > >
> > >Could someone who uses macOS please review this?
> > 
> > 
> > This is a freedesktop.org file format (https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/chap-AppStream-About.html#about-whatis).  Unless I'm missing something, I don't think it relates to macOS.
> 
> OK, then my request is for users of Freedesktop environments.

No comments, so I've now installed this on the master branch, and I'm
closing the bug.

Message #22 received at 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
Cc: 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#77492: AppStream metadata updates
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2025 11:02:41 -0400

> + <!-- https://hughsie.github.io/oars/generate.html -->
> + <content_rating type="oars-1.1">
> +   <!-- M-x doctor -->
> +   <content_attribute id="violence-fantasy">moderate</content_attribute>
> +   <content_attribute id="violence-sexual">intense</content_attribute>
> +   <content_attribute id="drugs-alcohol">mild</content_attribute>
> +   <content_attribute id="drugs-narcotics">mild</content_attribute>
> +   <content_attribute id="sex-themes">moderate</content_attribute>
> +   <content_attribute id="language-profanity">intense</content_attribute>
> +
> +   <!-- etc/JOKES -->
> +   <content_attribute id="language-humor">mild</content_attribute>
> +   <content_attribute id="sex-nudity">mild</content_attribute>
> +
> +   <!-- Gnus, rirc, etc. -->
> +   <content_attribute id="social-chat">intense</content_attribute>
> +
> +   <!-- M-x report-emacs-bug -->
> +   <content_attribute id="social-info">intense</content_attribute>
> + </content_rating>

I find this quite funny, but I'm genuinely curious how `M-x doctor`
ended up with

    <content_attribute id="violence-sexual">intense</content_attribute>

Looks like I haven't pushed my psychoanalyst hard enough.


        Stefan

Message #25 received at 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
Subject: Re: bug#77492: AppStream metadata updates
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2025 09:21:56 +0800

Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> + <!-- https://hughsie.github.io/oars/generate.html -->
>> + <content_rating type="oars-1.1">
>> +   <!-- M-x doctor -->
>> +   <content_attribute id="violence-fantasy">moderate</content_attribute>
>> +   <content_attribute id="violence-sexual">intense</content_attribute>
>> +   <content_attribute id="drugs-alcohol">mild</content_attribute>
>> +   <content_attribute id="drugs-narcotics">mild</content_attribute>
>> +   <content_attribute id="sex-themes">moderate</content_attribute>
>> +   <content_attribute id="language-profanity">intense</content_attribute>
>> +
>> +   <!-- etc/JOKES -->
>> +   <content_attribute id="language-humor">mild</content_attribute>
>> +   <content_attribute id="sex-nudity">mild</content_attribute>
>> +
>> +   <!-- Gnus, rirc, etc. -->
>> +   <content_attribute id="social-chat">intense</content_attribute>
>> +
>> +   <!-- M-x report-emacs-bug -->
>> +   <content_attribute id="social-info">intense</content_attribute>
>> + </content_rating>
>
> I find this quite funny, but I'm genuinely curious how `M-x doctor`
> ended up with
>
>     <content_attribute id="violence-sexual">intense</content_attribute>
>
> Looks like I haven't pushed my psychoanalyst hard enough.

Likewise.  I will have to contend with the consequences at my
organization when Emacs 31.1 is released and someone inevitably notices
these updated content ratings, which experience I am NOT anticipating
eagerly...

Message #28 received at 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>, Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
Cc: 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#77492: AppStream metadata updates
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 12:09:00 +0100 (BST)

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Sat, 19 Apr 2025, Stefan Monnier wrote:

> I find this quite funny, but I'm genuinely curious how `M-x doctor`
> ended up with
>
>    <content_attribute id="violence-sexual">intense</content_attribute>

The ratings seem to be quite vague, and minimal guidance is provided.

I figured it was better to suggest a pessimistic interpretation of the rules as the starting point for doctor.el.  If it will hold a “conversation” with you about rape, perhaps that is a depiction of rape.  OTOH, if you’re the one supplying the depiction, perhaps it is not.  I have no objection if we prefer to drop the doctor.el-related ratings.

Still, I guess there’s a question about whether this stuff still belongs in Emacs.  The contents of etc/JOKES appears to pre-date the existence of the world wide web; I don’t think we’d consider adding anything like this today.  As for doctor.el, ELPA might be a better home.

-- 
Peter Oliver

Message #31 received at 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
To: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
Cc: 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Subject: Re: bug#77492: AppStream metadata updates
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 20:00:44 +0800

Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk> writes:

> Still, I guess there’s a question about whether this stuff still
> belongs in Emacs.  The contents of etc/JOKES appears to pre-date the
> existence of the world wide web; I don’t think we’d consider adding
> anything like this today.  As for doctor.el, ELPA might be a better
> home.

etc/JOKES appears harmless.  Please don't let's move doctor.el to ELPA;
bowdlerizing it I can personally accept, but you will meet with
objections elsewhere.

Message #34 received at 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
To: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
Cc: 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rms <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#77492: AppStream metadata updates
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 14:37:18 -0400

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

What is the purpose of adding these to what we distribute?
It looks like some sort of cenorship system.

We should not blindly support this.  It is a political question
and calls for thought.  First we need to more about the situation.

Do you know what's going on here?  If so, can you please
explain it?
Who wants to include these things, and what reason does perse give?
What consequences would result from our including these things?
What consequences would result from our not including these things?


I also object to using the term "content" to refer to text,
which was adopted as the basis for censorship.



* etc/emacs.metainfo.xml: Add a <content_rating/> section.
---
 etc/emacs.metainfo.xml | 22 ++++++++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 22 insertions(+)

diff --git a/etc/emacs.metainfo.xml b/etc/emacs.metainfo.xml
index ad29940a5c3..8414e9ac6ba 100644
--- a/etc/emacs.metainfo.xml
+++ b/etc/emacs.metainfo.xml
@@ -59,6 +59,28 @@
     <caption>Editing a Lisp program, whilst viewing the manual</caption>
   </screenshot>
  </screenshots>
+
+ <!-- https://hughsie.github.io/oars/generate.html -->
+ <content_rating type="oars-1.1">
+   <!-- M-x doctor -->
+   <content_attribute id="violence-fantasy">moderate</content_attribute>
+   <content_attribute id="violence-sexual">intense</content_attribute>
+   <content_attribute id="drugs-alcohol">mild</content_attribute>
+   <content_attribute id="drugs-narcotics">mild</content_attribute>
+   <content_attribute id="sex-themes">moderate</content_attribute>
+   <content_attribute id="language-profanity">intense</content_attribute>
+
+   <!-- etc/JOKES -->
+   <content_attribute id="language-humor">mild</content_attribute>
+   <content_attribute id="sex-nudity">mild</content_attribute>
+
+   <!-- Gnus, rirc, etc. -->
+   <content_attribute id="social-chat">intense</content_attribute>
+
+   <!-- M-x report-emacs-bug -->
+   <content_attribute id="social-info">intense</content_attribute>
+ </content_rating>
+
  <update_contact>emacs-devel_AT_gnu.org</update_contact>
  <branding>
     <color type="primary" scheme_preference="light">#7f5ab6</color>

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Message #37 received at 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
To: Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#77492: AppStream metadata updates
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2025 15:10:09 +0100 (BST)

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2025, Richard Stallman wrote:

> What is the purpose of adding these to what we distribute?

There’s a very brief overview at https://hughsie.github.io/oars/

> Who wants to include these things, and what reason does perse give?

While working on commit 4f3188a88c04602d151585dce3e93a5cff38a967, I noticed https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/chap-Metadata.html#tag-content_rating, and reasoned that when it comes to providing metadata, greater coverage is better.  If it is controversial, I am not sufficiently invested to argue to retain it.

> What consequences would result from our including these things?

Additional information will be displayed about GNU Emacs in GNOME Software, the application installer GUI (see attached screenshot for an example).  Presumably other installer GUIs will do similar.  As far as I’m aware, that’s all.

> What consequences would result from our not including these things?

GNOME Software will unobtrusively say “No age rating information available” on it’s page for GNU Emacs.  Again, similar GUIs will presumably do similar.  As far as I’m aware, that’s all.

-- 
Peter Oliver

[Screenshot From 2025-04-24 15-04-43.png (image/png, attachment)]

Message #40 received at 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
To: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver <at> mavit.org.uk>
Cc: 77492 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: Re: bug#77492: AppStream metadata updates
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2025 18:19:00 -0400

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

The feature sounds ok to me.
Thanks.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

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