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Log into the console using your regular user 2. Log into GUI using your regular user 3. Log out of GUI 4. Switch to logged-in console 5. Run "px --tree" there 6. Observe the following: shepherd(1) accounts-daemon(1110) avahi-daemon:(2443) avahi-daemon:(2446) bluetoothd(1026) colord(25587) cupsd(2440) dbus-daemon(769) dnsmasq(1845) dnsmasq(1846) earlyoom(744) elogind(1024) gdm(1038) guix-daemon(740) libvirtd(1023) login(26536) -bash(6739) mcron(747) mingetty... (5×) ModemManager(1276) NetworkManager(1256) nginx:(797) nginx:(798) nscd(2177) polkitd(1231) postgres(852) postgres:... (6×) rasdaemon(796) rpc.idmapd(2447) rpc.mountd(2501) rpc.statd(2444) rpcbind(2441) shepherd(6395) <--- also dannym [dbus-daemon](6397) [ssh-agent](6444) [xdg-permission-](6411) wireplumber(6399) shepherd(26114) <--- dannym dbus-daemon(6881) pipewire(6882) pipewire-pulse(6883) ssh-agent(6880) wireplumber(6888) xdg-permission-store(7259) udevd(330) upowerd(1025) virtlogd(742) wpa_supplicant(1045) Those "[...]" with brackets mean that these processes were not reaped (so is defunct). What the hell? $ guix describe Generation 194 Mar 13 2025 19:11:33 (current) guix 678b3dd repository URL: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git branch: master commit: 678b3dddfe442e643fe5cff7730d4f9690c3e2c2 From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#76998: user shepherd stays around with some zombies Resent-From: Jake Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 22:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 76998 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: dannym@friendly-machines.com Cc: 76998@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 76998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B76998.174190615114165 (code B ref 76998); Thu, 13 Mar 2025 22:50:02 +0000 Received: (at 76998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2025 22:49:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58767 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tsrMU-0003gP-JD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 18:49:11 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::434]:42229) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tsrMR-0003fi-27 for 76998@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 18:49:07 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3913d129c1aso1230449f8f.0 for <76998@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 15:49:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1741906141; x=1742510941; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=nZLdGE6K1E8CMFA1o+ZqBXQAiZK7OgfLesajHPeO9KU=; b=biOKRJOa9sdoyUVgsuX/MJjqBo6hFSy3rL/2gbqajsZbBrV3bB4b1ilztIWg72nMPu yrrmogwt7KK0XaP1hyyuEjtjTD3CPkehYBZg4b0weQndnbKYhkKmlKdQRQxufOk0l1UQ Z/xq30KgMTnkrcniTjhQeysiYTkM5TBZVrSJ0fk9auCaq1dgq98JsQT1gUY+ltn7Vgol +BVvaNyOu5+/aO00gvBTQt80cJ+buuPYke+bsgixJ+hkeiYeIxiH3hchsMQ/KBPCh6Ef hAgYzWn2MbrEN+LomeVTZtWEHGOcfl2be2FvHgLobV96Fsf0RQM9VaIbXFI1x5HD4mfy j+zg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1741906141; x=1742510941; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=nZLdGE6K1E8CMFA1o+ZqBXQAiZK7OgfLesajHPeO9KU=; b=GHsv92w5s1K/vbt6LnaEizvrB1BuVJIyYP4E3FCortfyZgdC4tK9Xnt455Wd3xdT+C R3UD7oafIgef9Ctyif0LqJZN1NGNdolrwGtbAa24KEKzOiIR6q4sZuYj4jxSbLC7zTbB kWay5uRiey2Mmlsmi2AdZ6KRWNdtOkssR4jFUTWui0fNq3YTytu+c0nzDc9Br4idihvg G8CtE9ozxyj60orJLK4Ifp8QFZxH+40KGo4yCDS7U60dpyS9ySw9zsxWJM1W8d0U8v6X w2msIFi/kPHD7ChLN45ZzcZfKC3lD+uSqe2htp1HwrKgmLE9urjdfx7HvOqysHAZCo6m JT/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyEZoGcZzyNu0MYeDS6Oi+GKuJEAq0uaLiGDBm7UkxmsMeO3cjK 58gucAG7J8YeSXKBNE3Ke7mrVSfm7DmvuHkN1XVhLmNJGkayVstvgWwVEMpqnXmgEiBaJpJG2/G 1eail4R67ggN3rJKH21wjR0w8pjLjSg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncs+jsTcLgmMSXKTQzrCtN8PU58MRAmQ9ypknLqpHbc/WjmWsLyPZC8jQZ3sGmR YTrkgQOQcKSy2HbUo7f2hgdrEm/JRcltGzoGEPTqTclxPbGt2ajz1XCXcvaQY81aLOumBYkdK/m BPm4LSeE2FU6Xe6Ap3MJ2AKHpJwdJhGeuTvGUKvgRvLeAzngA1RVrYP0oPiug= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IElFtpThijq9RJJPPnffNSqzIAScJAoDfZLAIyx5vKuL/PTHFPzKfrRTyJnV86ykxZHN3qXKOi0oLJf+tGCsbE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1789:b0:38f:4ffd:c757 with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3971b9f6bb5mr175001f8f.2.1741906140380; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 15:49:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jake Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2025 09:18:49 +1030 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1JoJW5LtC600fknLHYOrwibhmvFjxeeuOpfMeUiHONZPnEFExgzyG9LN36g Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bac56706304120fc" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --000000000000bac56706304120fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is this the same as https://issues.guix.gnu.org/74912 ? Jake On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 at 5:41=E2=80=AFam, wrot= e: > Steps to reproduce: > > 1. Log into the console using your regular user > 2. Log into GUI using your regular user > 3. Log out of GUI > 4. Switch to logged-in console > 5. Run "px --tree" there > 6. Observe the following: > > shepherd(1) > accounts-daemon(1110) > avahi-daemon:(2443) > avahi-daemon:(2446) > bluetoothd(1026) > colord(25587) > cupsd(2440) > dbus-daemon(769) > dnsmasq(1845) > dnsmasq(1846) > earlyoom(744) > elogind(1024) > gdm(1038) > guix-daemon(740) > libvirtd(1023) > login(26536) > -bash(6739) > mcron(747) > mingetty... (5=C3=97) > ModemManager(1276) > NetworkManager(1256) > nginx:(797) > nginx:(798) > nscd(2177) > polkitd(1231) > postgres(852) > postgres:... (6=C3=97) > rasdaemon(796) > rpc.idmapd(2447) > rpc.mountd(2501) > rpc.statd(2444) > rpcbind(2441) > shepherd(6395) <--- also dannym > [dbus-daemon](6397) > [ssh-agent](6444) > [xdg-permission-](6411) > wireplumber(6399) > shepherd(26114) <--- dannym > dbus-daemon(6881) > pipewire(6882) > pipewire-pulse(6883) > ssh-agent(6880) > wireplumber(6888) > xdg-permission-store(7259) > udevd(330) > upowerd(1025) > virtlogd(742) > wpa_supplicant(1045) > > Those "[...]" with brackets mean that these processes were not reaped > (so is defunct). > > What the hell? > > $ guix describe > Generation 194 Mar 13 2025 19:11:33 (current) > guix 678b3dd > repository URL: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git > branch: master > commit: 678b3dddfe442e643fe5cff7730d4f9690c3e2c2 > > > > --000000000000bac56706304120fc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Is this the same as=C2=A0


On Fri, 14 = Mar 2025 at 5:41=E2=80=AFam, <dannym@friendly-machines.com> wrote:
Steps to reproduce:

1. Log into the console using your regular user
2. Log into GUI using your regular user
3. Log out of GUI
4. Switch to logged-in console
5. Run "px --tree" there
6. Observe the following:

shepherd(1)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0accounts-daemon(1110)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0avahi-daemon:(2443)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0avahi-daemon:(2446)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0bluetoothd(1026)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0colord(25587)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0cupsd(2440)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0dbus-daemon(769)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0dnsmasq(1845)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0dnsmasq(1846)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0earlyoom(744)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0elogind(1024)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0gdm(1038)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0guix-daemon(740)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0libvirtd(1023)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0login(26536)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-bash(6739)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0mcron(747)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0mingetty... (5=C3=97)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0ModemManager(1276)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0NetworkManager(1256)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0nginx:(797)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0nginx:(798)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0nscd(2177)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0polkitd(1231)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0postgres(852)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0postgres:... (6=C3=97)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0rasdaemon(796)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0rpc.idmapd(2447)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0rpc.mountd(2501)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0rpc.statd(2444)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0rpcbind(2441)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0shepherd(6395) <--- also dannym
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[dbus-daemon](6397)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[ssh-agent](6444)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[xdg-permission-](6411)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wireplumber(6399)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0shepherd(26114) <--- dannym
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0dbus-daemon(6881)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pipewire(6882)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pipewire-pulse(6883)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ssh-agent(6880)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0wireplumber(6888)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0xdg-permission-store(7259)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0udevd(330)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0upowerd(1025)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0virtlogd(742)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0wpa_supplicant(1045)

Those "[...]" with brackets mean that these processes were not re= aped
(so is defunct).

What the hell?

$ guix describe
Generation 194=C2=A0 Mar 13 2025 19:11:33=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (current)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0guix 678b3dd
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0repository URL: https://git.savannah.gn= u.org/git/guix.git
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0branch: master
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0commit: 678b3dddfe442e643fe5cff7730d4f9690c3e2c2



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Mon, 17 Mar 2025 20:37:36 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2025 20:37:36 +0100 Message-Id: <877c4nmosf.fsf@gnu.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: control message for bug #76998 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 88AC33D7 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [7.30 / 15.00]; SPAM_FLAG(5.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM(3.00)[1.000]; BAYES_HAM(-1.31)[90.19%]; R_MIXED_CHARSET(0.71)[subject]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[control@debbugs.gnu.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-Spam-Level: ******* X-Rspamd-Action: add header X-Spamd-Bar: +++++++ X-Rspamd-Server: hera X-Spam: Yes X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) retitle 76998 Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login quit From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: dannym@friendly-machines.com Subject: bug#76998: closed (Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <87tt5nyy6k.fsf_-_@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 76998 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 76998@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Wed, 14 May 2025 17:05:07 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1747242307-18710-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1747242307-18710-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 76998@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1747242307-18710-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2025 17:04:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44765 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uFFWZ-0004oD-UN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 May 2025 13:04:08 -0400 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([185.233.100.1]:37298) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uFFWR-0004m8-U2; Wed, 14 May 2025 13:04:02 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 051E0E30; Wed, 14 May 2025 19:03:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavis at hera.aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ev7yrxHP5FOJ; Wed, 14 May 2025 19:03:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ribbon (91-160-117-201.subs.proxad.net [91.160.117.201]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4472BD96; Wed, 14 May 2025 19:03:53 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Danny Milosavljevic Subject: Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login In-Reply-To: <874iyrkvx7.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s=22'?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= message of "Mon, 14 Apr 2025 10:08:04 +0200") References: <871pukdlyo.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <874iyrkvx7.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 14 May 2025 18:06:11 +0200 Message-ID: <87tt5nyy6k.fsf_-_@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76998-done Cc: Jake , 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Daniel Littlewood X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) Hi, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > So shepherd will now refuse to start when it determines that an instance > is already listening on its socket: > > https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/shepherd.git/commit/?id=3D787d5a33aea= 061b5052faa0863c96be722440ce3 This commit is in 1.0.4. Closing! 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Thu, 13 Mar 2025 19:10:36 +0000 Received: from webmail.friendly-machines.com (ip-66-33-200-4.dreamhost.com [66.33.200.4]) (Authenticated sender: dannym@friendly-machines.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a308.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4ZDHC00y8zz3B for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 12:10:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=friendly-machines.com; s=dreamhost; t=1741893036; bh=1k6pVmqwPJvW0IPDoJ8RYqbBfoKt0itbLhPERd6ietg=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=M1z27lr9qV0ytGK4ixKiV6zfrkvIsdHcfSUxjtwxC97XIsvzjU6Sqj6Aq65PPcvQI HkvLdTfMWVKdpPTtjq+e96vnu6EkCrFw+s5Zy7NPznND6ar/hrfPmPMSoiXeucu4U0 ko2MglcJPJb2PiIkZThoNTN8aw2fX10PtOd9ar28v+DOpVbBRngSYglg38KUejTmB1 TmE+yRD2XRyxInF/R7kjf3Wwp6X6sfcz68DpcYRcyxhSzVECj47J4pKNRuyra+DiUi 858FMEOqkEus+FaofpryIvbcchG1U/NvrkNuoosUNlNF1Y09kvHYD2IpKBlwIJZ6qH s5cP8zKo3LA5w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 20:10:36 +0100 From: dannym@friendly-machines.com To: Bug Guix Subject: user shepherd stays around with some zombies User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.5.0 Message-ID: X-Sender: dannym@friendly-machines.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=23.83.223.164; envelope-from=dannym@friendly-machines.com; helo=shrimp.cherry.relay.mailchannels.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) Steps to reproduce: 1. Log into the console using your regular user 2. Log into GUI using your regular user 3. Log out of GUI 4. Switch to logged-in console 5. Run "px --tree" there 6. Observe the following: shepherd(1) accounts-daemon(1110) avahi-daemon:(2443) avahi-daemon:(2446) bluetoothd(1026) colord(25587) cupsd(2440) dbus-daemon(769) dnsmasq(1845) dnsmasq(1846) earlyoom(744) elogind(1024) gdm(1038) guix-daemon(740) libvirtd(1023) login(26536) -bash(6739) mcron(747) mingetty... (5×) ModemManager(1276) NetworkManager(1256) nginx:(797) nginx:(798) nscd(2177) polkitd(1231) postgres(852) postgres:... (6×) rasdaemon(796) rpc.idmapd(2447) rpc.mountd(2501) rpc.statd(2444) rpcbind(2441) shepherd(6395) <--- also dannym [dbus-daemon](6397) [ssh-agent](6444) [xdg-permission-](6411) wireplumber(6399) shepherd(26114) <--- dannym dbus-daemon(6881) pipewire(6882) pipewire-pulse(6883) ssh-agent(6880) wireplumber(6888) xdg-permission-store(7259) udevd(330) upowerd(1025) virtlogd(742) wpa_supplicant(1045) Those "[...]" with brackets mean that these processes were not reaped (so is defunct). What the hell? $ guix describe Generation 194 Mar 13 2025 19:11:33 (current) guix 678b3dd repository URL: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git branch: master commit: 678b3dddfe442e643fe5cff7730d4f9690c3e2c2 ------------=_1747242307-18710-1-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: xeji@cat3.de Subject: bug#67863: closed (Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <87tt5nyy6k.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <835991647.70407.1702766524281@office.mailbox.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 67863 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 67863@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Wed, 14 May 2025 17:05:08 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1747242308-18710-3" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1747242308-18710-3 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 67863@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1747242308-18710-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2025 17:04:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44765 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uFFWZ-0004oD-UN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 May 2025 13:04:08 -0400 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([185.233.100.1]:37298) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uFFWR-0004m8-U2; Wed, 14 May 2025 13:04:02 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 051E0E30; Wed, 14 May 2025 19:03:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavis at hera.aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ev7yrxHP5FOJ; Wed, 14 May 2025 19:03:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ribbon (91-160-117-201.subs.proxad.net [91.160.117.201]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4472BD96; Wed, 14 May 2025 19:03:53 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Danny Milosavljevic Subject: Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login In-Reply-To: <874iyrkvx7.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s=22'?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= message of "Mon, 14 Apr 2025 10:08:04 +0200") References: <871pukdlyo.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <874iyrkvx7.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 14 May 2025 18:06:11 +0200 Message-ID: <87tt5nyy6k.fsf_-_@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76998-done Cc: Jake , 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Daniel Littlewood X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) Hi, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > So shepherd will now refuse to start when it determines that an instance > is already listening on its socket: > > https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/shepherd.git/commit/?id=3D787d5a33aea= 061b5052faa0863c96be722440ce3 This commit is in 1.0.4. Closing! Ludo=E2=80=99. ------------=_1747242308-18710-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Dec 2023 05:24:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56469 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rEjdk-0004Z1-03 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:24:40 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:42584) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMT-0007hN-7A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:22 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMM-00011t-BQ for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:14 -0500 Received: from mout-p-202.mailbox.org ([80.241.56.172]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMK-0003aN-2X for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:14 -0500 Received: from smtp102.mailbox.org (smtp102.mailbox.org [IPv6:2001:67c:2050:b231:465::102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-202.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4St1L45Kxlz9sWt for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:42:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:42:04 +0100 (CET) From: xeji@cat3.de To: "bug-guix@gnu.org" Message-ID: <835991647.70407.1702766524281@office.mailbox.org> Subject: Guix Home: Multiple instances of user Shepherd created MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279" X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4St1L45Kxlz9sWt Received-SPF: pass client-ip=80.241.56.172; envelope-from=xeji@cat3.de; helo=mout-p-202.mailbox.org X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:24:35 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) ------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am trying to use the awesome Guix Home Shepherd service for syncthing (home-syncthing-service-type). Syncthing works fine but every time I log out of my last user session and log back in again, a new instance of the user shepherd is started (and tries to start syncthing again). After logging out and in a few times, there are multiple user shepherd processes. Suspected cause: Apparently the user shepherd process is not killed on last logout before elogind (correctly) removes XDG_RUNTIME_DIR. So on next login, a new empty XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is created, causing a new user shepherd to be started while the old one is still running happily. This seems to be a general issue and not particular to the syncthing home service. System: Guix System on x86_64 Guix commit: ac61e9705fb8c450c6cd0c1731fbb1b909c1f944 -- Uli ------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am trying to use the awesome Guix Home Shepherd service for syncthing (home-syncthing-service-type).
 
Syncthing works fine but every time I log out of my last user session and log back in again, a new instance of the user shepherd is started (and tries to start syncthing again).
After logging out and in a few times, there are multiple user shepherd processes.
 
Suspected cause:  Apparently the user shepherd process is not killed on last logout before elogind (correctly) removes XDG_RUNTIME_DIR.
So on next login, a new empty XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is created, causing a new user shepherd to be started while the old one is still running happily.
This seems to be a general issue and not particular to the syncthing home service.
 
System: Guix System on x86_64
Guix commit: ac61e9705fb8c450c6cd0c1731fbb1b909c1f944
 
--
Uli
------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279-- ------------=_1747242308-18710-3-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Jake Subject: bug#74912: closed (Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <87tt5nyy6k.fsf_-_@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 74912 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Wed, 14 May 2025 17:05:08 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1747242308-18710-5" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1747242308-18710-5 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 74912@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1747242308-18710-5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2025 17:04:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44765 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uFFWZ-0004oD-UN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 May 2025 13:04:08 -0400 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([185.233.100.1]:37298) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uFFWR-0004m8-U2; Wed, 14 May 2025 13:04:02 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 051E0E30; Wed, 14 May 2025 19:03:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavis at hera.aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ev7yrxHP5FOJ; Wed, 14 May 2025 19:03:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ribbon (91-160-117-201.subs.proxad.net [91.160.117.201]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4472BD96; Wed, 14 May 2025 19:03:53 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Danny Milosavljevic Subject: Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login In-Reply-To: <874iyrkvx7.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s=22'?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= message of "Mon, 14 Apr 2025 10:08:04 +0200") References: <871pukdlyo.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <874iyrkvx7.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 14 May 2025 18:06:11 +0200 Message-ID: <87tt5nyy6k.fsf_-_@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76998-done Cc: Jake , 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Daniel Littlewood X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) Hi, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > So shepherd will now refuse to start when it determines that an instance > is already listening on its socket: > > https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/shepherd.git/commit/?id=3D787d5a33aea= 061b5052faa0863c96be722440ce3 This commit is in 1.0.4. Closing! 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Whenever I log out and log back in again, my user shepherd from the previous login session is still present, and a new user shepherd spawns for the current login session. So relogging N times results in N+1 user shepherds. For example, I have relogged 5 times since I last rebooted: $ herd status root Status of root: It is running since 00:30:02 (10 minutes ago). Main PID: 23450 Command: /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf ... $ pgrep shepherd 1 9891 10777 16417 18510 21960 23450 $ ps aux | grep shepherd root 1 0.0 0.9 222872 74456 ? Sl Dec15 0:08 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --config /gnu/store/p7al8wd1inwk8f5di2q4llcpd64mjn5q-shepherd.conf jake 9891 0.0 0.2 75816 23624 ? Ss Dec15 0:04 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 10777 0.0 0.3 76224 24752 ? Ss Dec16 0:03 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 16417 0.0 0.3 75752 24004 ? Ss Dec16 0:02 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 18510 0.0 0.2 75752 23760 ? Ss Dec16 0:01 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 21960 0.0 0.2 114608 22124 ? Ss Dec16 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 23450 0.0 0.2 114204 21328 ? Ss 00:30 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 23672 0.0 0.0 6636 2552 pts/1 S+ 00:32 0:00 grep --color=auto shepherd In addition, any daemons managed by the zombie shepherds also persist! I'm experiencing this on both of my Guix System machines. One is running GDM and XFCE. The other is running GDM and CWM. Please let me know if I can provide more information. Thanks Jake --000000000000d38909062963ec7d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi

I think I'm experienc= ing a bug in Shepherd since version 1.0.=C2=A0
Whenever I log out= and log back in again, my user shepherd from the previous login session is= still present, and a new user shepherd spawns for the current login sessio= n.
So relogging N times results in N+1 user shepherds.
=
For example, I have relogged 5 times since I last rebooted:<= /div>

$ herd status root
Status of root:
=C2=A0 It is running since 00:30:02 (10 minutes ag= o).
=C2=A0 Main PID: 23450
=C2=A0 Command: /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppw= bkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c= 7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /g= nu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
...

$ pgrep shepherd
1
989110777
16417
18510
21960
23450

$=C2=A0 ps aux | grep shepherd
root =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1 =C2=A00.0 =C2= =A00.9 222872 74456 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sl =C2=A0 Dec15 =C2=A0 0:0= 8 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-au= to-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/s= hepherd --config /gnu/store/p7al8wd1inwk8f5di2q4llcpd64mjn5q-shepherd.conf<= br>jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A09891 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 =C2=A075816 23624 ? = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec15 =C2=A0 0:04 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlf= pv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/= nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --con= fig /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 10777 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.3 =C2=A076224 24752 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:03 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nr= f95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4= r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3= l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 16417 = =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.3 =C2=A075752 24004 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2= =A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:02 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0= .9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-= shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx7= 7xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 18510 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.= 2 =C2=A075752 23760 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:0= 1 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-au= to-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/s= hepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-sheph= erd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 21960 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 114608 22124 ? =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3= ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0= w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config= /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 23450 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 114204 21328 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= Ss =C2=A0 00:30 =C2=A0 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-gui= le-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7n= d5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815m= m3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 23672 =C2=A00.0 = =C2=A00.0 =C2=A0 6636 =C2=A02552 pts/1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0S+ =C2=A0 00:32 =C2=A0 = 0:00 grep --color=3Dauto shepherd

In addition,= any daemons managed by the zombie shepherds also persist!

I'm experiencing this on both of my Guix System machines. One = is running GDM and XFCE. The other is running GDM and CWM.=C2=A0
= Please let me know if I can provide more information.

<= div>Thanks
Jake
--000000000000d38909062963ec7d-- ------------=_1747242308-18710-5-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#76998: bug#74912: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login References: In-Reply-To: Resent-From: Danny Milosavljevic Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 12:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 76998 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood Received: via spool by 76998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B76998.174757146911656 (code B ref 76998); Sun, 18 May 2025 12:32:02 +0000 Received: (at 76998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 May 2025 12:31:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56248 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uGdAb-00031v-2d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 May 2025 08:31:09 -0400 Received: from buffalo.ash.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.222.24]:51233) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uGdAQ-00030t-3e; Sun, 18 May 2025 08:30:59 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|dannym@friendly-machines.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346232C51FA; Sun, 18 May 2025 12:30:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (trex-green-2.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.119.90.73]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id AAA522C5257; Sun, 18 May 2025 12:30:54 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1747571454; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=imArXeROKjCyGVps0H8iAkoANz0QGLeaSoZ/S6S2LcbuL9Sy61O6Xw8o2m8Tvhd6THZW3l RfC6r8LQ6tHwxWLz+ih2GVkuzchAnxHsrxqDVjNMkL1SNgpRMUUbe8/NRPKcdg4W6WDwTY qntIN/AlVC7D57Lg5E7VmhTKt82jCQNzAsVRn6PB2MeR7xcCGFPeg8w/XN8Dsd4Vv+HOaE 5Z+D1p12WKnuxZLyJgdIWokM9UEK1jC3xOYy47vmfgqGUTSRdShWSLzPrHRtadzuTvB/f9 a/Qk6e8w79QXojYe2jsm91n+nSKfOs6I3wAx8plmp+d4Rgl3/sTK15YAn46+/w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1747571454; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: dkim-signature; bh=lMUaJbrd91vDDt6ookEdYfqI3ddpLaGX55mkIqqtdTk=; b=AVGCrT5oBPh+mmJn7YZH0ua6hm+wz0hcY2HELnUycbkl0NNvpFFLT/hiRj9x/tXQ609JFS MlOyZ2cMsUxI+5kio7a70H3F7an7Lmy0PUaBPpLJYpXIe4FlCbHHLcvyasfG9WtIhSPDqR jfqsHkyBpJaXAkqIjmVP1dGv5StXvbaFbTaLIUtyiHEeCQCJ5Aqkk84TL2RJ8SlXf2PTza ai4/Z3+pIefgfDdGJbUk8f9A+uh7giAK0NZHrL0QJgc5ho6gN3ApMfq3093XqzuecktmEJ PXIdWOXG3KY/iHyC6OOoKG32Jrktx9tmQFqvyqDGsPEyeXPcholz+Jk2ZY9CHQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-766f9cfddb-ccm5x; auth=pass smtp.auth=dreamhost smtp.mailfrom=dannym@friendly-machines.com X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|dannym@friendly-machines.com X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MC-Copy: stored-urls X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|dannym@friendly-machines.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Continue-Keen: 2bbd3f3209b40dda_1747571454960_4012650870 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1747571454960:1570676293 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1747571454960 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.119.90.73 (trex/7.0.3); Sun, 18 May 2025 12:30:54 +0000 Received: from nova (84-115-226-251.cable.dynamic.surfer.at [84.115.226.251]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: dannym@friendly-machines.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4b0gCJ5gP8zLb; Sun, 18 May 2025 05:30:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=friendly-machines.com; s=dreamhost; t=1747571454; bh=5S33FiyZ/SVSn2WJzLGLD7Ehkd67BOXqcqVLcbAdbUg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Content-Type; b=AZxHoJYDnenM+AeVc0Qg8dbql29vO4+zKeJaeeZp0AbRkfeBAuiG4Cb0FZXnTm1A/ vcnKSX0rFMTORO2MlRvQU7s8lIriEXaZ0BSqEB4MKE+4/jy2z20U9sxNPA+s8vTh9z yCpWi0BEP92nHniyOywkA1Ri11XNa9b9ADF1YVZVfN6+3GtDmn/W3wsWk56L4HvInH 3bBVquAscPfI1xy1oEY1hDhepDStio35OPyZKU7C8T5yfQFu4jfReDWgK0Mwp7mKza Ip8x0vT2+Ip5+armqQIyYNBvYpzhrYxTXf42KfbuwTzuPZpzNzlncUo5mMA6lRlPXC IGt4YnnvpgWOA== From: Danny Milosavljevic User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.9; emacs 29.4 Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 14:30:49 +0200 Message-ID: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Ludo, That is not a fix. It's a workaround for now. It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in shepherd. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without explanation, then now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but [...] Content analysis details: (3.6 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [84.115.226.251 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. 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Content preview: Hi Ludo, That is not a fix. It's a workaround for now. It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in shepherd. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without explanation, then now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but [...] Content analysis details: (2.6 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [84.115.226.251 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [23.83.222.24 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5 RBL: Excellent reputation (+5) [23.83.222.24 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [23.83.222.24 listed in bl.score.senderscore.com] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [23.83.222.24 listed in sa-accredit.habeas.com] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ludo, That is not a fix. It's a workaround for now. It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in shepher= d. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without explanation, the= n now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but safer way). This shoul= dn't have been removed in the first place. It's EXTREMELY dangerous to hav= e multiple parallel shepherds for the same user (automated backup service d= estroying backups etc). Please, let's not remove it ever again. In any case, what shepherd 1.0.4 does is stop the bleeding, but not fix the= problem: It prevents two (or 100) user shepherds for the same user from running in p= arallel. It does not stop shepherd when a user closed all their sessions. Why close this bug report before elogind is patched and before ~/.bash_logo= ut is generated in guix home? That makes no sense. Also, I don't understand why this is so broken for so long. Isn't Guix use= d in HPC? Doesn't HPC need support for multiple sessions for the same user on day one? My untested elogind patch that invokes shepherd root stop is attached. Rea= ding the elogind source code, especially what they patched out and what the= y added themselves, makes me despair. Why is it so terrible? That all use= d to be fine! :P Even my patch is not great. A service manager's job is to manage services.= PID 1 is the main service manager. It should manage services. One of th= ose services should be the user's shepherd, which should be managed by PID = 1 shepherd and not weirdly attached to an already-running session (WTF!) of= the user by this: ~$ cat ~/.profile HOME_ENVIRONMENT=3D$HOME/.guix-home . $HOME_ENVIRONMENT/setup-environment $HOME_ENVIRONMENT/on-first-login unset HOME_ENVIRONMENT In my opinion, no one but the service manager should manage services. Does= ~/.profile look like a service manager? No :P I understand that we want to support this on non-guix-system stuff. But th= e default should be a systemd user service to run the user shepherd. If th= e user absolutely wants to do a workaround like ~/.profile above, fine, the= y can. But let's not do that by default. The problems with my elogind patch are the following: - What if "herd stop root -s ..." hangs? Then elogind hangs forever? No o= ne can log in or out anymore?=C2=A0 That's not okay. Therefore, I don't wa= it. Now user processes can have the floor upon they are walking removed on= user stop, while they still need it :P - When can /run/user/1000 be deleted? There's a weird GC mechanism in elog= ind for that, and my patch says it can be deleted before waiting on the res= ult of herd stop (see above why). If I DID wait on the result of herd stop= , I could wait indefinitely--which is not okay. I think elogind uses signa= lfd, so I can't waitpid in a random spot either, or wait until waitpid retu= rned. I think the user shepherd knows when to delete /run/user/1000--and n= o one else. But if user shepherd crashes, it won't delete /run/user/1000 a= nd we want it to be able to start again even when /run/user/1000 is still t= here. Hence complicated shepherd fix in 1.0.4 is useful. - There is tool_fork_pid and sleep_fork_pid in elogind which is not a queue= . And, again, that is trying to be a service manager. What if those scrip= ts hang? What if they DON'T hang? Similar questions as before. Separate = the concerns already :P Personally, I'd also like something that, if all sessions of user x are clo= sed, it kills all remaining processes of that effective user id. elogind h= as a setting KillUserProcesses that--despite the name--kills (WHICH!?) proc= esses when a SESSION (of 42 sessions of that user :P) is closed. Who wants= THAT? And even if someone does: how would THAT be implemented? elogind is like containers never happened. It's so weird. I think to fix this problem for good, first there needs to be a system diag= ram created on how this is supposed to work. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=ELOGIND.patch Content-Description: elogind patch for shepherd License: elogind's license Author: Danny Milosavljevic Date: 2025-05-18 diff -ru orig/18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c 18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c --- orig/18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c 2025-05-10 13:54:28.999814332 +0200 +++ 18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c 2025-05-10 15:48:33.872775240 +0200 @@ -2,6 +2,7 @@ #include #include +#include #include "alloc-util.h" //#include "bus-common-errors.h" @@ -17,6 +18,7 @@ #include "format-util.h" #include "fs-util.h" #include "hashmap.h" +#include "string-util.h" // #include "label-util.h" #include "limits-util.h" #include "logind-dbus.h" @@ -506,24 +508,45 @@ return 0; } -#if 0 /// elogind does not support user services and systemd units static void user_stop_service(User *u, bool force) { - _cleanup_(sd_bus_error_free) sd_bus_error error = SD_BUS_ERROR_NULL; - int r; - - assert(u); - assert(u->service); - - /* The reverse of user_start_service(). Note that we only stop user@UID.service here, and let StopWhenUnneeded= - * deal with the slice and the user-runtime-dir@.service instance. */ - - u->service_job = mfree(u->service_job); - - r = manager_stop_unit(u->manager, u->service, force ? "replace" : "fail", &error, &u->service_job); - if (r < 0) - log_warning_errno(r, "Failed to stop user service '%s', ignoring: %s", u->service, bus_error_message(&error, r)); + assert(u); + if (u->runtime_path != NULL) { + pid_t pid; + /* TODO: maybe just /run/booted-system/profile/bin/pkill -u u->user_record->uid ; + TODO: maybe just loginctl kill-user x; maybe that's us. + That eventually calls user_kill, which elogind patched to not kill the user + service or, really, do anything useful. + u->slice would be the unit name if it worked. + Note: u->user_record->kill_processes is for sessions, not users. + See also user_unit_active. */ + const char *executable = "/run/booted-system/profile/bin/herd"; + char* socket_path_arg = strjoina(u->runtime_path, "/shepherd/socket"); + char *argv[] = { + (char *) executable, + "stop", + "root", + "-s", + socket_path_arg, + NULL, + }; + int spawn_status = posix_spawn(&pid, executable, NULL, NULL, argv, environ); + if (spawn_status != 0) { + log_error_errno(spawn_status, "Failed to invoke %s: %m", executable); + } else { + if (u->manager != NULL) { + /* TODO: Do we overwrite someone here? */ + u->manager->tool_fork_pid = pid; + /* elogind_sigchld_handler unsets it. Not sure how we'd notice. + Note: elogind patched out the service_job handling which means + that user_may_gc will return true as soon as u->stopping == true + instead of checking whether the user service is still running. */ + } else { + /* ??? */ + } + } + } + user_add_to_gc_queue(u); } -#endif // 0 int user_stop(User *u, bool force) { int r = 0; @@ -552,11 +575,7 @@ r = k; } -#if 0 /// elogind does not support service or slice jobs... user_stop_service(u, force); -#else // 0 - user_add_to_gc_queue(u); -#endif // 0 u->stopping = true; --=-=-=-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: dannym@friendly-machines.com Subject: bug#76998: closed (Re: bug#74912: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 76998 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 76998@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 12:32:03 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1747571523-11788-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1747571523-11788-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 76998@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1747571523-11788-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 May 2025 12:31:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56246 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uGdAV-00031c-3F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 May 2025 08:31:03 -0400 Received: from buffalo.ash.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.222.24]:51233) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uGdAQ-00030t-3e; Sun, 18 May 2025 08:30:59 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|dannym@friendly-machines.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346232C51FA; Sun, 18 May 2025 12:30:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (trex-green-2.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.119.90.73]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id AAA522C5257; Sun, 18 May 2025 12:30:54 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1747571454; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=imArXeROKjCyGVps0H8iAkoANz0QGLeaSoZ/S6S2LcbuL9Sy61O6Xw8o2m8Tvhd6THZW3l RfC6r8LQ6tHwxWLz+ih2GVkuzchAnxHsrxqDVjNMkL1SNgpRMUUbe8/NRPKcdg4W6WDwTY qntIN/AlVC7D57Lg5E7VmhTKt82jCQNzAsVRn6PB2MeR7xcCGFPeg8w/XN8Dsd4Vv+HOaE 5Z+D1p12WKnuxZLyJgdIWokM9UEK1jC3xOYy47vmfgqGUTSRdShWSLzPrHRtadzuTvB/f9 a/Qk6e8w79QXojYe2jsm91n+nSKfOs6I3wAx8plmp+d4Rgl3/sTK15YAn46+/w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1747571454; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: dkim-signature; bh=lMUaJbrd91vDDt6ookEdYfqI3ddpLaGX55mkIqqtdTk=; b=AVGCrT5oBPh+mmJn7YZH0ua6hm+wz0hcY2HELnUycbkl0NNvpFFLT/hiRj9x/tXQ609JFS MlOyZ2cMsUxI+5kio7a70H3F7an7Lmy0PUaBPpLJYpXIe4FlCbHHLcvyasfG9WtIhSPDqR jfqsHkyBpJaXAkqIjmVP1dGv5StXvbaFbTaLIUtyiHEeCQCJ5Aqkk84TL2RJ8SlXf2PTza ai4/Z3+pIefgfDdGJbUk8f9A+uh7giAK0NZHrL0QJgc5ho6gN3ApMfq3093XqzuecktmEJ PXIdWOXG3KY/iHyC6OOoKG32Jrktx9tmQFqvyqDGsPEyeXPcholz+Jk2ZY9CHQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-766f9cfddb-ccm5x; auth=pass smtp.auth=dreamhost smtp.mailfrom=dannym@friendly-machines.com X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|dannym@friendly-machines.com X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MC-Copy: stored-urls X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|dannym@friendly-machines.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Continue-Keen: 2bbd3f3209b40dda_1747571454960_4012650870 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1747571454960:1570676293 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1747571454960 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.119.90.73 (trex/7.0.3); Sun, 18 May 2025 12:30:54 +0000 Received: from nova (84-115-226-251.cable.dynamic.surfer.at [84.115.226.251]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: dannym@friendly-machines.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4b0gCJ5gP8zLb; Sun, 18 May 2025 05:30:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=friendly-machines.com; s=dreamhost; t=1747571454; bh=5S33FiyZ/SVSn2WJzLGLD7Ehkd67BOXqcqVLcbAdbUg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Content-Type; b=AZxHoJYDnenM+AeVc0Qg8dbql29vO4+zKeJaeeZp0AbRkfeBAuiG4Cb0FZXnTm1A/ vcnKSX0rFMTORO2MlRvQU7s8lIriEXaZ0BSqEB4MKE+4/jy2z20U9sxNPA+s8vTh9z yCpWi0BEP92nHniyOywkA1Ri11XNa9b9ADF1YVZVfN6+3GtDmn/W3wsWk56L4HvInH 3bBVquAscPfI1xy1oEY1hDhepDStio35OPyZKU7C8T5yfQFu4jfReDWgK0Mwp7mKza Ip8x0vT2+Ip5+armqQIyYNBvYpzhrYxTXf42KfbuwTzuPZpzNzlncUo5mMA6lRlPXC IGt4YnnvpgWOA== From: Danny Milosavljevic To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: bug#74912: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.9; emacs 29.4 Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 14:30:49 +0200 Message-ID: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Ludo, That is not a fix. It's a workaround for now. It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in shepherd. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without explanation, then now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but [...] Content analysis details: (3.6 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [84.115.226.251 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Ludo, That is not a fix. It's a workaround for now. It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in shepherd. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without explanation, then now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but [...] Content analysis details: (2.6 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [23.83.222.24 listed in sa-accredit.habeas.com] 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [84.115.226.251 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [23.83.222.24 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5 RBL: Excellent reputation (+5) [23.83.222.24 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [23.83.222.24 listed in bl.score.senderscore.com] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ludo, That is not a fix. It's a workaround for now. It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in shepher= d. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without explanation, the= n now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but safer way). This shoul= dn't have been removed in the first place. It's EXTREMELY dangerous to hav= e multiple parallel shepherds for the same user (automated backup service d= estroying backups etc). Please, let's not remove it ever again. In any case, what shepherd 1.0.4 does is stop the bleeding, but not fix the= problem: It prevents two (or 100) user shepherds for the same user from running in p= arallel. It does not stop shepherd when a user closed all their sessions. Why close this bug report before elogind is patched and before ~/.bash_logo= ut is generated in guix home? That makes no sense. Also, I don't understand why this is so broken for so long. Isn't Guix use= d in HPC? Doesn't HPC need support for multiple sessions for the same user on day one? My untested elogind patch that invokes shepherd root stop is attached. Rea= ding the elogind source code, especially what they patched out and what the= y added themselves, makes me despair. Why is it so terrible? That all use= d to be fine! :P Even my patch is not great. A service manager's job is to manage services.= PID 1 is the main service manager. It should manage services. One of th= ose services should be the user's shepherd, which should be managed by PID = 1 shepherd and not weirdly attached to an already-running session (WTF!) of= the user by this: ~$ cat ~/.profile HOME_ENVIRONMENT=3D$HOME/.guix-home . $HOME_ENVIRONMENT/setup-environment $HOME_ENVIRONMENT/on-first-login unset HOME_ENVIRONMENT In my opinion, no one but the service manager should manage services. Does= ~/.profile look like a service manager? No :P I understand that we want to support this on non-guix-system stuff. But th= e default should be a systemd user service to run the user shepherd. If th= e user absolutely wants to do a workaround like ~/.profile above, fine, the= y can. But let's not do that by default. The problems with my elogind patch are the following: - What if "herd stop root -s ..." hangs? Then elogind hangs forever? No o= ne can log in or out anymore?=C2=A0 That's not okay. Therefore, I don't wa= it. Now user processes can have the floor upon they are walking removed on= user stop, while they still need it :P - When can /run/user/1000 be deleted? There's a weird GC mechanism in elog= ind for that, and my patch says it can be deleted before waiting on the res= ult of herd stop (see above why). If I DID wait on the result of herd stop= , I could wait indefinitely--which is not okay. I think elogind uses signa= lfd, so I can't waitpid in a random spot either, or wait until waitpid retu= rned. I think the user shepherd knows when to delete /run/user/1000--and n= o one else. But if user shepherd crashes, it won't delete /run/user/1000 a= nd we want it to be able to start again even when /run/user/1000 is still t= here. Hence complicated shepherd fix in 1.0.4 is useful. - There is tool_fork_pid and sleep_fork_pid in elogind which is not a queue= . And, again, that is trying to be a service manager. What if those scrip= ts hang? What if they DON'T hang? Similar questions as before. Separate = the concerns already :P Personally, I'd also like something that, if all sessions of user x are clo= sed, it kills all remaining processes of that effective user id. elogind h= as a setting KillUserProcesses that--despite the name--kills (WHICH!?) proc= esses when a SESSION (of 42 sessions of that user :P) is closed. Who wants= THAT? And even if someone does: how would THAT be implemented? elogind is like containers never happened. It's so weird. I think to fix this problem for good, first there needs to be a system diag= ram created on how this is supposed to work. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=ELOGIND.patch Content-Description: elogind patch for shepherd License: elogind's license Author: Danny Milosavljevic Date: 2025-05-18 diff -ru orig/18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c 18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c --- orig/18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c 2025-05-10 13:54:28.999814332 +0200 +++ 18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c 2025-05-10 15:48:33.872775240 +0200 @@ -2,6 +2,7 @@ #include #include +#include #include "alloc-util.h" //#include "bus-common-errors.h" @@ -17,6 +18,7 @@ #include "format-util.h" #include "fs-util.h" #include "hashmap.h" +#include "string-util.h" // #include "label-util.h" #include "limits-util.h" #include "logind-dbus.h" @@ -506,24 +508,45 @@ return 0; } -#if 0 /// elogind does not support user services and systemd units static void user_stop_service(User *u, bool force) { - _cleanup_(sd_bus_error_free) sd_bus_error error = SD_BUS_ERROR_NULL; - int r; - - assert(u); - assert(u->service); - - /* The reverse of user_start_service(). Note that we only stop user@UID.service here, and let StopWhenUnneeded= - * deal with the slice and the user-runtime-dir@.service instance. */ - - u->service_job = mfree(u->service_job); - - r = manager_stop_unit(u->manager, u->service, force ? "replace" : "fail", &error, &u->service_job); - if (r < 0) - log_warning_errno(r, "Failed to stop user service '%s', ignoring: %s", u->service, bus_error_message(&error, r)); + assert(u); + if (u->runtime_path != NULL) { + pid_t pid; + /* TODO: maybe just /run/booted-system/profile/bin/pkill -u u->user_record->uid ; + TODO: maybe just loginctl kill-user x; maybe that's us. + That eventually calls user_kill, which elogind patched to not kill the user + service or, really, do anything useful. + u->slice would be the unit name if it worked. + Note: u->user_record->kill_processes is for sessions, not users. + See also user_unit_active. */ + const char *executable = "/run/booted-system/profile/bin/herd"; + char* socket_path_arg = strjoina(u->runtime_path, "/shepherd/socket"); + char *argv[] = { + (char *) executable, + "stop", + "root", + "-s", + socket_path_arg, + NULL, + }; + int spawn_status = posix_spawn(&pid, executable, NULL, NULL, argv, environ); + if (spawn_status != 0) { + log_error_errno(spawn_status, "Failed to invoke %s: %m", executable); + } else { + if (u->manager != NULL) { + /* TODO: Do we overwrite someone here? */ + u->manager->tool_fork_pid = pid; + /* elogind_sigchld_handler unsets it. Not sure how we'd notice. + Note: elogind patched out the service_job handling which means + that user_may_gc will return true as soon as u->stopping == true + instead of checking whether the user service is still running. */ + } else { + /* ??? */ + } + } + } + user_add_to_gc_queue(u); } -#endif // 0 int user_stop(User *u, bool force) { int r = 0; @@ -552,11 +575,7 @@ r = k; } -#if 0 /// elogind does not support service or slice jobs... user_stop_service(u, force); -#else // 0 - user_add_to_gc_queue(u); -#endif // 0 u->stopping = true; --=-=-=-- ------------=_1747571523-11788-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2025 19:10:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58160 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tsnxG-0007F3-GM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 15:10:54 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:46602) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tsnxD-0007EY-RM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Log into the console using your regular user 2. Log into GUI using your regular user 3. Log out of GUI 4. Switch to logged-in console 5. Run "px --tree" there 6. Observe the following: shepherd(1) accounts-daemon(1110) avahi-daemon:(2443) avahi-daemon:(2446) bluetoothd(1026) colord(25587) cupsd(2440) dbus-daemon(769) dnsmasq(1845) dnsmasq(1846) earlyoom(744) elogind(1024) gdm(1038) guix-daemon(740) libvirtd(1023) login(26536) -bash(6739) mcron(747) mingetty... (5×) ModemManager(1276) NetworkManager(1256) nginx:(797) nginx:(798) nscd(2177) polkitd(1231) postgres(852) postgres:... (6×) rasdaemon(796) rpc.idmapd(2447) rpc.mountd(2501) rpc.statd(2444) rpcbind(2441) shepherd(6395) <--- also dannym [dbus-daemon](6397) [ssh-agent](6444) [xdg-permission-](6411) wireplumber(6399) shepherd(26114) <--- dannym dbus-daemon(6881) pipewire(6882) pipewire-pulse(6883) ssh-agent(6880) wireplumber(6888) xdg-permission-store(7259) udevd(330) upowerd(1025) virtlogd(742) wpa_supplicant(1045) Those "[...]" with brackets mean that these processes were not reaped (so is defunct). What the hell? $ guix describe Generation 194 Mar 13 2025 19:11:33 (current) guix 678b3dd repository URL: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git branch: master commit: 678b3dddfe442e643fe5cff7730d4f9690c3e2c2 ------------=_1747571523-11788-1-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: xeji@cat3.de Subject: bug#67863: closed (Re: bug#74912: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <835991647.70407.1702766524281@office.mailbox.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 67863 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 67863@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 12:32:04 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1747571524-11788-3" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1747571524-11788-3 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 67863@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1747571524-11788-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 May 2025 12:31:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56246 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uGdAV-00031c-3F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 May 2025 08:31:03 -0400 Received: from buffalo.ash.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.222.24]:51233) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uGdAQ-00030t-3e; Sun, 18 May 2025 08:30:59 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|dannym@friendly-machines.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346232C51FA; Sun, 18 May 2025 12:30:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (trex-green-2.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.119.90.73]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id AAA522C5257; Sun, 18 May 2025 12:30:54 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1747571454; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=imArXeROKjCyGVps0H8iAkoANz0QGLeaSoZ/S6S2LcbuL9Sy61O6Xw8o2m8Tvhd6THZW3l RfC6r8LQ6tHwxWLz+ih2GVkuzchAnxHsrxqDVjNMkL1SNgpRMUUbe8/NRPKcdg4W6WDwTY qntIN/AlVC7D57Lg5E7VmhTKt82jCQNzAsVRn6PB2MeR7xcCGFPeg8w/XN8Dsd4Vv+HOaE 5Z+D1p12WKnuxZLyJgdIWokM9UEK1jC3xOYy47vmfgqGUTSRdShWSLzPrHRtadzuTvB/f9 a/Qk6e8w79QXojYe2jsm91n+nSKfOs6I3wAx8plmp+d4Rgl3/sTK15YAn46+/w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1747571454; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: dkim-signature; bh=lMUaJbrd91vDDt6ookEdYfqI3ddpLaGX55mkIqqtdTk=; b=AVGCrT5oBPh+mmJn7YZH0ua6hm+wz0hcY2HELnUycbkl0NNvpFFLT/hiRj9x/tXQ609JFS MlOyZ2cMsUxI+5kio7a70H3F7an7Lmy0PUaBPpLJYpXIe4FlCbHHLcvyasfG9WtIhSPDqR jfqsHkyBpJaXAkqIjmVP1dGv5StXvbaFbTaLIUtyiHEeCQCJ5Aqkk84TL2RJ8SlXf2PTza ai4/Z3+pIefgfDdGJbUk8f9A+uh7giAK0NZHrL0QJgc5ho6gN3ApMfq3093XqzuecktmEJ PXIdWOXG3KY/iHyC6OOoKG32Jrktx9tmQFqvyqDGsPEyeXPcholz+Jk2ZY9CHQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-766f9cfddb-ccm5x; auth=pass smtp.auth=dreamhost smtp.mailfrom=dannym@friendly-machines.com X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|dannym@friendly-machines.com X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MC-Copy: stored-urls X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|dannym@friendly-machines.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Continue-Keen: 2bbd3f3209b40dda_1747571454960_4012650870 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1747571454960:1570676293 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1747571454960 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.119.90.73 (trex/7.0.3); Sun, 18 May 2025 12:30:54 +0000 Received: from nova (84-115-226-251.cable.dynamic.surfer.at [84.115.226.251]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: dannym@friendly-machines.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4b0gCJ5gP8zLb; Sun, 18 May 2025 05:30:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=friendly-machines.com; s=dreamhost; t=1747571454; bh=5S33FiyZ/SVSn2WJzLGLD7Ehkd67BOXqcqVLcbAdbUg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Content-Type; b=AZxHoJYDnenM+AeVc0Qg8dbql29vO4+zKeJaeeZp0AbRkfeBAuiG4Cb0FZXnTm1A/ vcnKSX0rFMTORO2MlRvQU7s8lIriEXaZ0BSqEB4MKE+4/jy2z20U9sxNPA+s8vTh9z yCpWi0BEP92nHniyOywkA1Ri11XNa9b9ADF1YVZVfN6+3GtDmn/W3wsWk56L4HvInH 3bBVquAscPfI1xy1oEY1hDhepDStio35OPyZKU7C8T5yfQFu4jfReDWgK0Mwp7mKza Ip8x0vT2+Ip5+armqQIyYNBvYpzhrYxTXf42KfbuwTzuPZpzNzlncUo5mMA6lRlPXC IGt4YnnvpgWOA== From: Danny Milosavljevic To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: bug#74912: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.9; emacs 29.4 Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 14:30:49 +0200 Message-ID: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Ludo, That is not a fix. It's a workaround for now. It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in shepherd. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without explanation, then now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but [...] Content analysis details: (3.6 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [84.115.226.251 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Ludo, That is not a fix. It's a workaround for now. It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in shepherd. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without explanation, then now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but [...] Content analysis details: (2.6 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [23.83.222.24 listed in sa-accredit.habeas.com] 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [84.115.226.251 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [23.83.222.24 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5 RBL: Excellent reputation (+5) [23.83.222.24 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [23.83.222.24 listed in bl.score.senderscore.com] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ludo, That is not a fix. It's a workaround for now. It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in shepher= d. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without explanation, the= n now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but safer way). This shoul= dn't have been removed in the first place. It's EXTREMELY dangerous to hav= e multiple parallel shepherds for the same user (automated backup service d= estroying backups etc). Please, let's not remove it ever again. In any case, what shepherd 1.0.4 does is stop the bleeding, but not fix the= problem: It prevents two (or 100) user shepherds for the same user from running in p= arallel. It does not stop shepherd when a user closed all their sessions. Why close this bug report before elogind is patched and before ~/.bash_logo= ut is generated in guix home? That makes no sense. Also, I don't understand why this is so broken for so long. Isn't Guix use= d in HPC? Doesn't HPC need support for multiple sessions for the same user on day one? My untested elogind patch that invokes shepherd root stop is attached. Rea= ding the elogind source code, especially what they patched out and what the= y added themselves, makes me despair. Why is it so terrible? That all use= d to be fine! :P Even my patch is not great. A service manager's job is to manage services.= PID 1 is the main service manager. It should manage services. One of th= ose services should be the user's shepherd, which should be managed by PID = 1 shepherd and not weirdly attached to an already-running session (WTF!) of= the user by this: ~$ cat ~/.profile HOME_ENVIRONMENT=3D$HOME/.guix-home . $HOME_ENVIRONMENT/setup-environment $HOME_ENVIRONMENT/on-first-login unset HOME_ENVIRONMENT In my opinion, no one but the service manager should manage services. Does= ~/.profile look like a service manager? No :P I understand that we want to support this on non-guix-system stuff. But th= e default should be a systemd user service to run the user shepherd. If th= e user absolutely wants to do a workaround like ~/.profile above, fine, the= y can. But let's not do that by default. The problems with my elogind patch are the following: - What if "herd stop root -s ..." hangs? Then elogind hangs forever? No o= ne can log in or out anymore?=C2=A0 That's not okay. Therefore, I don't wa= it. Now user processes can have the floor upon they are walking removed on= user stop, while they still need it :P - When can /run/user/1000 be deleted? There's a weird GC mechanism in elog= ind for that, and my patch says it can be deleted before waiting on the res= ult of herd stop (see above why). If I DID wait on the result of herd stop= , I could wait indefinitely--which is not okay. I think elogind uses signa= lfd, so I can't waitpid in a random spot either, or wait until waitpid retu= rned. I think the user shepherd knows when to delete /run/user/1000--and n= o one else. But if user shepherd crashes, it won't delete /run/user/1000 a= nd we want it to be able to start again even when /run/user/1000 is still t= here. Hence complicated shepherd fix in 1.0.4 is useful. - There is tool_fork_pid and sleep_fork_pid in elogind which is not a queue= . And, again, that is trying to be a service manager. What if those scrip= ts hang? What if they DON'T hang? Similar questions as before. Separate = the concerns already :P Personally, I'd also like something that, if all sessions of user x are clo= sed, it kills all remaining processes of that effective user id. elogind h= as a setting KillUserProcesses that--despite the name--kills (WHICH!?) proc= esses when a SESSION (of 42 sessions of that user :P) is closed. Who wants= THAT? And even if someone does: how would THAT be implemented? elogind is like containers never happened. It's so weird. I think to fix this problem for good, first there needs to be a system diag= ram created on how this is supposed to work. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=ELOGIND.patch Content-Description: elogind patch for shepherd License: elogind's license Author: Danny Milosavljevic Date: 2025-05-18 diff -ru orig/18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c 18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c --- orig/18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c 2025-05-10 13:54:28.999814332 +0200 +++ 18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c 2025-05-10 15:48:33.872775240 +0200 @@ -2,6 +2,7 @@ #include #include +#include #include "alloc-util.h" //#include "bus-common-errors.h" @@ -17,6 +18,7 @@ #include "format-util.h" #include "fs-util.h" #include "hashmap.h" +#include "string-util.h" // #include "label-util.h" #include "limits-util.h" #include "logind-dbus.h" @@ -506,24 +508,45 @@ return 0; } -#if 0 /// elogind does not support user services and systemd units static void user_stop_service(User *u, bool force) { - _cleanup_(sd_bus_error_free) sd_bus_error error = SD_BUS_ERROR_NULL; - int r; - - assert(u); - assert(u->service); - - /* The reverse of user_start_service(). Note that we only stop user@UID.service here, and let StopWhenUnneeded= - * deal with the slice and the user-runtime-dir@.service instance. */ - - u->service_job = mfree(u->service_job); - - r = manager_stop_unit(u->manager, u->service, force ? "replace" : "fail", &error, &u->service_job); - if (r < 0) - log_warning_errno(r, "Failed to stop user service '%s', ignoring: %s", u->service, bus_error_message(&error, r)); + assert(u); + if (u->runtime_path != NULL) { + pid_t pid; + /* TODO: maybe just /run/booted-system/profile/bin/pkill -u u->user_record->uid ; + TODO: maybe just loginctl kill-user x; maybe that's us. + That eventually calls user_kill, which elogind patched to not kill the user + service or, really, do anything useful. + u->slice would be the unit name if it worked. + Note: u->user_record->kill_processes is for sessions, not users. + See also user_unit_active. */ + const char *executable = "/run/booted-system/profile/bin/herd"; + char* socket_path_arg = strjoina(u->runtime_path, "/shepherd/socket"); + char *argv[] = { + (char *) executable, + "stop", + "root", + "-s", + socket_path_arg, + NULL, + }; + int spawn_status = posix_spawn(&pid, executable, NULL, NULL, argv, environ); + if (spawn_status != 0) { + log_error_errno(spawn_status, "Failed to invoke %s: %m", executable); + } else { + if (u->manager != NULL) { + /* TODO: Do we overwrite someone here? */ + u->manager->tool_fork_pid = pid; + /* elogind_sigchld_handler unsets it. Not sure how we'd notice. + Note: elogind patched out the service_job handling which means + that user_may_gc will return true as soon as u->stopping == true + instead of checking whether the user service is still running. */ + } else { + /* ??? */ + } + } + } + user_add_to_gc_queue(u); } -#endif // 0 int user_stop(User *u, bool force) { int r = 0; @@ -552,11 +575,7 @@ r = k; } -#if 0 /// elogind does not support service or slice jobs... user_stop_service(u, force); -#else // 0 - user_add_to_gc_queue(u); -#endif // 0 u->stopping = true; --=-=-=-- ------------=_1747571524-11788-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Dec 2023 05:24:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56469 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rEjdk-0004Z1-03 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:24:40 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:42584) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMT-0007hN-7A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:22 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMM-00011t-BQ for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:14 -0500 Received: from mout-p-202.mailbox.org ([80.241.56.172]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMK-0003aN-2X for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:14 -0500 Received: from smtp102.mailbox.org (smtp102.mailbox.org [IPv6:2001:67c:2050:b231:465::102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-202.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4St1L45Kxlz9sWt for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:42:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:42:04 +0100 (CET) From: xeji@cat3.de To: "bug-guix@gnu.org" Message-ID: <835991647.70407.1702766524281@office.mailbox.org> Subject: Guix Home: Multiple instances of user Shepherd created MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279" X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4St1L45Kxlz9sWt Received-SPF: pass client-ip=80.241.56.172; envelope-from=xeji@cat3.de; helo=mout-p-202.mailbox.org X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:24:35 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) ------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am trying to use the awesome Guix Home Shepherd service for syncthing (home-syncthing-service-type). Syncthing works fine but every time I log out of my last user session and log back in again, a new instance of the user shepherd is started (and tries to start syncthing again). After logging out and in a few times, there are multiple user shepherd processes. Suspected cause: Apparently the user shepherd process is not killed on last logout before elogind (correctly) removes XDG_RUNTIME_DIR. So on next login, a new empty XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is created, causing a new user shepherd to be started while the old one is still running happily. This seems to be a general issue and not particular to the syncthing home service. System: Guix System on x86_64 Guix commit: ac61e9705fb8c450c6cd0c1731fbb1b909c1f944 -- Uli ------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am trying to use the awesome Guix Home Shepherd service for syncthing (home-syncthing-service-type).
 
Syncthing works fine but every time I log out of my last user session and log back in again, a new instance of the user shepherd is started (and tries to start syncthing again).
After logging out and in a few times, there are multiple user shepherd processes.
 
Suspected cause:  Apparently the user shepherd process is not killed on last logout before elogind (correctly) removes XDG_RUNTIME_DIR.
So on next login, a new empty XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is created, causing a new user shepherd to be started while the old one is still running happily.
This seems to be a general issue and not particular to the syncthing home service.
 
System: Guix System on x86_64
Guix commit: ac61e9705fb8c450c6cd0c1731fbb1b909c1f944
 
--
Uli
------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279-- ------------=_1747571524-11788-3-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Jake Subject: bug#74912: closed (Re: bug#74912: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 74912 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 12:32:04 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1747571524-11788-5" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1747571524-11788-5 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 74912@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1747571524-11788-5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 May 2025 12:31:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56246 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uGdAV-00031c-3F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 May 2025 08:31:03 -0400 Received: from buffalo.ash.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.222.24]:51233) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uGdAQ-00030t-3e; Sun, 18 May 2025 08:30:59 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|dannym@friendly-machines.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346232C51FA; Sun, 18 May 2025 12:30:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (trex-green-2.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.119.90.73]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id AAA522C5257; Sun, 18 May 2025 12:30:54 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1747571454; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=imArXeROKjCyGVps0H8iAkoANz0QGLeaSoZ/S6S2LcbuL9Sy61O6Xw8o2m8Tvhd6THZW3l RfC6r8LQ6tHwxWLz+ih2GVkuzchAnxHsrxqDVjNMkL1SNgpRMUUbe8/NRPKcdg4W6WDwTY qntIN/AlVC7D57Lg5E7VmhTKt82jCQNzAsVRn6PB2MeR7xcCGFPeg8w/XN8Dsd4Vv+HOaE 5Z+D1p12WKnuxZLyJgdIWokM9UEK1jC3xOYy47vmfgqGUTSRdShWSLzPrHRtadzuTvB/f9 a/Qk6e8w79QXojYe2jsm91n+nSKfOs6I3wAx8plmp+d4Rgl3/sTK15YAn46+/w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1747571454; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: dkim-signature; bh=lMUaJbrd91vDDt6ookEdYfqI3ddpLaGX55mkIqqtdTk=; b=AVGCrT5oBPh+mmJn7YZH0ua6hm+wz0hcY2HELnUycbkl0NNvpFFLT/hiRj9x/tXQ609JFS MlOyZ2cMsUxI+5kio7a70H3F7an7Lmy0PUaBPpLJYpXIe4FlCbHHLcvyasfG9WtIhSPDqR jfqsHkyBpJaXAkqIjmVP1dGv5StXvbaFbTaLIUtyiHEeCQCJ5Aqkk84TL2RJ8SlXf2PTza ai4/Z3+pIefgfDdGJbUk8f9A+uh7giAK0NZHrL0QJgc5ho6gN3ApMfq3093XqzuecktmEJ PXIdWOXG3KY/iHyC6OOoKG32Jrktx9tmQFqvyqDGsPEyeXPcholz+Jk2ZY9CHQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-766f9cfddb-ccm5x; auth=pass smtp.auth=dreamhost smtp.mailfrom=dannym@friendly-machines.com X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|dannym@friendly-machines.com X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MC-Copy: stored-urls X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|dannym@friendly-machines.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Continue-Keen: 2bbd3f3209b40dda_1747571454960_4012650870 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1747571454960:1570676293 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1747571454960 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.119.90.73 (trex/7.0.3); Sun, 18 May 2025 12:30:54 +0000 Received: from nova (84-115-226-251.cable.dynamic.surfer.at [84.115.226.251]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: dannym@friendly-machines.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a211.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4b0gCJ5gP8zLb; Sun, 18 May 2025 05:30:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=friendly-machines.com; s=dreamhost; t=1747571454; bh=5S33FiyZ/SVSn2WJzLGLD7Ehkd67BOXqcqVLcbAdbUg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Content-Type; b=AZxHoJYDnenM+AeVc0Qg8dbql29vO4+zKeJaeeZp0AbRkfeBAuiG4Cb0FZXnTm1A/ vcnKSX0rFMTORO2MlRvQU7s8lIriEXaZ0BSqEB4MKE+4/jy2z20U9sxNPA+s8vTh9z yCpWi0BEP92nHniyOywkA1Ri11XNa9b9ADF1YVZVfN6+3GtDmn/W3wsWk56L4HvInH 3bBVquAscPfI1xy1oEY1hDhepDStio35OPyZKU7C8T5yfQFu4jfReDWgK0Mwp7mKza Ip8x0vT2+Ip5+armqQIyYNBvYpzhrYxTXf42KfbuwTzuPZpzNzlncUo5mMA6lRlPXC IGt4YnnvpgWOA== From: Danny Milosavljevic To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: bug#74912: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.9; emacs 29.4 Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 14:30:49 +0200 Message-ID: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Ludo, That is not a fix. It's a workaround for now. It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in shepherd. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without explanation, then now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but [...] Content analysis details: (3.6 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [84.115.226.251 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Ludo, That is not a fix. It's a workaround for now. It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in shepherd. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without explanation, then now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but [...] Content analysis details: (2.6 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [23.83.222.24 listed in sa-accredit.habeas.com] 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [84.115.226.251 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [23.83.222.24 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5 RBL: Excellent reputation (+5) [23.83.222.24 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED RBL: ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to Validity was blocked. See https://knowledge.validity.com/hc/en-us/articles/20961730681243 for more information. [23.83.222.24 listed in bl.score.senderscore.com] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ludo, That is not a fix. It's a workaround for now. It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in shepher= d. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without explanation, the= n now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but safer way). This shoul= dn't have been removed in the first place. It's EXTREMELY dangerous to hav= e multiple parallel shepherds for the same user (automated backup service d= estroying backups etc). Please, let's not remove it ever again. In any case, what shepherd 1.0.4 does is stop the bleeding, but not fix the= problem: It prevents two (or 100) user shepherds for the same user from running in p= arallel. It does not stop shepherd when a user closed all their sessions. Why close this bug report before elogind is patched and before ~/.bash_logo= ut is generated in guix home? That makes no sense. Also, I don't understand why this is so broken for so long. Isn't Guix use= d in HPC? Doesn't HPC need support for multiple sessions for the same user on day one? My untested elogind patch that invokes shepherd root stop is attached. Rea= ding the elogind source code, especially what they patched out and what the= y added themselves, makes me despair. Why is it so terrible? That all use= d to be fine! :P Even my patch is not great. A service manager's job is to manage services.= PID 1 is the main service manager. It should manage services. One of th= ose services should be the user's shepherd, which should be managed by PID = 1 shepherd and not weirdly attached to an already-running session (WTF!) of= the user by this: ~$ cat ~/.profile HOME_ENVIRONMENT=3D$HOME/.guix-home . $HOME_ENVIRONMENT/setup-environment $HOME_ENVIRONMENT/on-first-login unset HOME_ENVIRONMENT In my opinion, no one but the service manager should manage services. Does= ~/.profile look like a service manager? No :P I understand that we want to support this on non-guix-system stuff. But th= e default should be a systemd user service to run the user shepherd. If th= e user absolutely wants to do a workaround like ~/.profile above, fine, the= y can. But let's not do that by default. The problems with my elogind patch are the following: - What if "herd stop root -s ..." hangs? Then elogind hangs forever? No o= ne can log in or out anymore?=C2=A0 That's not okay. Therefore, I don't wa= it. Now user processes can have the floor upon they are walking removed on= user stop, while they still need it :P - When can /run/user/1000 be deleted? There's a weird GC mechanism in elog= ind for that, and my patch says it can be deleted before waiting on the res= ult of herd stop (see above why). If I DID wait on the result of herd stop= , I could wait indefinitely--which is not okay. I think elogind uses signa= lfd, so I can't waitpid in a random spot either, or wait until waitpid retu= rned. I think the user shepherd knows when to delete /run/user/1000--and n= o one else. But if user shepherd crashes, it won't delete /run/user/1000 a= nd we want it to be able to start again even when /run/user/1000 is still t= here. Hence complicated shepherd fix in 1.0.4 is useful. - There is tool_fork_pid and sleep_fork_pid in elogind which is not a queue= . And, again, that is trying to be a service manager. What if those scrip= ts hang? What if they DON'T hang? Similar questions as before. Separate = the concerns already :P Personally, I'd also like something that, if all sessions of user x are clo= sed, it kills all remaining processes of that effective user id. elogind h= as a setting KillUserProcesses that--despite the name--kills (WHICH!?) proc= esses when a SESSION (of 42 sessions of that user :P) is closed. Who wants= THAT? And even if someone does: how would THAT be implemented? elogind is like containers never happened. It's so weird. I think to fix this problem for good, first there needs to be a system diag= ram created on how this is supposed to work. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=ELOGIND.patch Content-Description: elogind patch for shepherd License: elogind's license Author: Danny Milosavljevic Date: 2025-05-18 diff -ru orig/18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c 18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c --- orig/18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c 2025-05-10 13:54:28.999814332 +0200 +++ 18rk21n7l3yniy1rvlcdnwgnnvafivf0-elogind-255.17-checkout/src/login/logind-user.c 2025-05-10 15:48:33.872775240 +0200 @@ -2,6 +2,7 @@ #include #include +#include #include "alloc-util.h" //#include "bus-common-errors.h" @@ -17,6 +18,7 @@ #include "format-util.h" #include "fs-util.h" #include "hashmap.h" +#include "string-util.h" // #include "label-util.h" #include "limits-util.h" #include "logind-dbus.h" @@ -506,24 +508,45 @@ return 0; } -#if 0 /// elogind does not support user services and systemd units static void user_stop_service(User *u, bool force) { - _cleanup_(sd_bus_error_free) sd_bus_error error = SD_BUS_ERROR_NULL; - int r; - - assert(u); - assert(u->service); - - /* The reverse of user_start_service(). Note that we only stop user@UID.service here, and let StopWhenUnneeded= - * deal with the slice and the user-runtime-dir@.service instance. */ - - u->service_job = mfree(u->service_job); - - r = manager_stop_unit(u->manager, u->service, force ? "replace" : "fail", &error, &u->service_job); - if (r < 0) - log_warning_errno(r, "Failed to stop user service '%s', ignoring: %s", u->service, bus_error_message(&error, r)); + assert(u); + if (u->runtime_path != NULL) { + pid_t pid; + /* TODO: maybe just /run/booted-system/profile/bin/pkill -u u->user_record->uid ; + TODO: maybe just loginctl kill-user x; maybe that's us. + That eventually calls user_kill, which elogind patched to not kill the user + service or, really, do anything useful. + u->slice would be the unit name if it worked. + Note: u->user_record->kill_processes is for sessions, not users. + See also user_unit_active. */ + const char *executable = "/run/booted-system/profile/bin/herd"; + char* socket_path_arg = strjoina(u->runtime_path, "/shepherd/socket"); + char *argv[] = { + (char *) executable, + "stop", + "root", + "-s", + socket_path_arg, + NULL, + }; + int spawn_status = posix_spawn(&pid, executable, NULL, NULL, argv, environ); + if (spawn_status != 0) { + log_error_errno(spawn_status, "Failed to invoke %s: %m", executable); + } else { + if (u->manager != NULL) { + /* TODO: Do we overwrite someone here? */ + u->manager->tool_fork_pid = pid; + /* elogind_sigchld_handler unsets it. Not sure how we'd notice. + Note: elogind patched out the service_job handling which means + that user_may_gc will return true as soon as u->stopping == true + instead of checking whether the user service is still running. */ + } else { + /* ??? */ + } + } + } + user_add_to_gc_queue(u); } -#endif // 0 int user_stop(User *u, bool force) { int r = 0; @@ -552,11 +575,7 @@ r = k; } -#if 0 /// elogind does not support service or slice jobs... user_stop_service(u, force); -#else // 0 - user_add_to_gc_queue(u); -#endif // 0 u->stopping = true; --=-=-=-- ------------=_1747571524-11788-5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Dec 2024 14:23:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54044 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0Z-00047d-L7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:40 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:45874) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0W-00047T-Q7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0W-0002cb-Af for bug-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:36 -0500 Received: from mail-ua1-x935.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::935]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0U-0000np-ED for bug-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:36 -0500 Received: by mail-ua1-x935.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-85c4cd95885so737952241.1 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 06:23:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1734359012; x=1734963812; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=krjudaZQaY6dzp1NtGbI7xrdKYyklUaU5MOYPgqhe1Q=; b=cke1RDFl3FVP6rlW22zQFV6Li8qAZRZu8K3Amk4LHIyYIHOfT9sbAOs3sakJirXuOX LMb6IsBdsRAugTIFcBkF11JY+2uD6IWvrJMRyjU0VZGh9xn1hCEx+f/WDp+kuquPu+N6 TnAvJLSs3MLWwzRiHd53PhoVgRywWiItA8L0AuAA7Nf/CxmRx9T1yBGU5AOLWvgJXB7s AUdfc2Ri+nysfDEQIYMExV0hwmunqjPKt5hbgLsdi4Dmv0PiyBPOwm8fdwO/JMA5m9lb +SsCAQ1sor+KXzus7otygC28HO0YN1dVgoEvgATY5wpdM0mKL701UDvtIpS6Hr+BAbRk X3fQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1734359012; x=1734963812; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=krjudaZQaY6dzp1NtGbI7xrdKYyklUaU5MOYPgqhe1Q=; b=AwePABCMxhHYYQjBGerpOQXH3IPX4Pch0rwNImbZ2l5Slv51I4DMcJzZ1IC9x6/mZa yZNsXr8jSp6Wv0+h7C09lPCpcCrsLYCZU810aeEnvvW1SKGNqSKT3t6TxqT5IGHuQ11t dzr2+56WgCeY8Wa/QQZBjkk24CN6hgesx+3p/bgW12zvBEQ4ELstKlVqlViEyxUlvkCZ a0cEmHm4Lms4xQCNOKzGkh8uj/Ux/4fxafq9DUbBfrvJ91eg9u3MMyetpj1HKCUSqEIN 2F5I5YrZ/LeIjJLmpk98fi1YNylz6EwlOI0TYxX98/Ebd0+gkpx9QGUJ5OqSTOzWsk1J Ca+g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YysmHMaJl5xfBFIUdk7xLKWuNouBZ2RoGyyYp8ZEmekove5mJt8 VLlaZuOnsCT3u2PuX5MaPxOFwCSs63L49fEjISKvbgm2hIMbXd0LIlulj12xPD97j61YrT3r5cc gFXtEJLj76NWEJfRFtY3hMkHIsmuTZSFi X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvnTaDMuuWbiY8Cjppx3Dcj8bi58MWmK3XRV8Zo2RhcYrK5nooh7+931rtz5xI Lf+5JEFrp6Bp1Q4YtnyiwVUcEEjsf9P0UBi0nQQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFD8VTzyQbpG+rIyBRdGGplO+XSRfgWfWJccodloqxfTPss+Gn3zdVVRGcMEYqKhGGMmoE/fk5QvEHqtLSVLbA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:91e:b0:515:e446:b9f9 with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-518ca48f016mr10417980e0c.12.1734359012048; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 06:23:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jake Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 14:23:20 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Shepherd: Growing number of user shepherds when relogging To: bug-guix@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d38909062963ec7d" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::935; envelope-from=jforst.mailman@gmail.com; helo=mail-ua1-x935.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: ludovic.courtes@inria.fr X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) --000000000000d38909062963ec7d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi I think I'm experiencing a bug in Shepherd since version 1.0. Whenever I log out and log back in again, my user shepherd from the previous login session is still present, and a new user shepherd spawns for the current login session. So relogging N times results in N+1 user shepherds. For example, I have relogged 5 times since I last rebooted: $ herd status root Status of root: It is running since 00:30:02 (10 minutes ago). Main PID: 23450 Command: /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf ... $ pgrep shepherd 1 9891 10777 16417 18510 21960 23450 $ ps aux | grep shepherd root 1 0.0 0.9 222872 74456 ? Sl Dec15 0:08 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --config /gnu/store/p7al8wd1inwk8f5di2q4llcpd64mjn5q-shepherd.conf jake 9891 0.0 0.2 75816 23624 ? Ss Dec15 0:04 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 10777 0.0 0.3 76224 24752 ? Ss Dec16 0:03 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 16417 0.0 0.3 75752 24004 ? Ss Dec16 0:02 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 18510 0.0 0.2 75752 23760 ? Ss Dec16 0:01 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 21960 0.0 0.2 114608 22124 ? Ss Dec16 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 23450 0.0 0.2 114204 21328 ? Ss 00:30 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 23672 0.0 0.0 6636 2552 pts/1 S+ 00:32 0:00 grep --color=auto shepherd In addition, any daemons managed by the zombie shepherds also persist! I'm experiencing this on both of my Guix System machines. One is running GDM and XFCE. The other is running GDM and CWM. Please let me know if I can provide more information. Thanks Jake --000000000000d38909062963ec7d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi

I think I'm experienc= ing a bug in Shepherd since version 1.0.=C2=A0
Whenever I log out= and log back in again, my user shepherd from the previous login session is= still present, and a new user shepherd spawns for the current login sessio= n.
So relogging N times results in N+1 user shepherds.
=
For example, I have relogged 5 times since I last rebooted:<= /div>

$ herd status root
Status of root:
=C2=A0 It is running since 00:30:02 (10 minutes ag= o).
=C2=A0 Main PID: 23450
=C2=A0 Command: /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppw= bkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c= 7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /g= nu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
...

$ pgrep shepherd
1
989110777
16417
18510
21960
23450

$=C2=A0 ps aux | grep shepherd
root =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1 =C2=A00.0 =C2= =A00.9 222872 74456 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sl =C2=A0 Dec15 =C2=A0 0:0= 8 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-au= to-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/s= hepherd --config /gnu/store/p7al8wd1inwk8f5di2q4llcpd64mjn5q-shepherd.conf<= br>jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A09891 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 =C2=A075816 23624 ? = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec15 =C2=A0 0:04 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlf= pv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/= nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --con= fig /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 10777 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.3 =C2=A076224 24752 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:03 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nr= f95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4= r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3= l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 16417 = =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.3 =C2=A075752 24004 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2= =A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:02 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0= .9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-= shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx7= 7xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 18510 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.= 2 =C2=A075752 23760 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:0= 1 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-au= to-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/s= hepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-sheph= erd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 21960 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 114608 22124 ? =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3= ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0= w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config= /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 23450 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 114204 21328 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= Ss =C2=A0 00:30 =C2=A0 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-gui= le-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7n= d5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815m= m3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 23672 =C2=A00.0 = =C2=A00.0 =C2=A0 6636 =C2=A02552 pts/1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0S+ =C2=A0 00:32 =C2=A0 = 0:00 grep --color=3Dauto shepherd

In addition,= any daemons managed by the zombie shepherds also persist!

I'm experiencing this on both of my Guix System machines. One = is running GDM and XFCE. The other is running GDM and CWM.=C2=A0
= Please let me know if I can provide more information.

<= div>Thanks
Jake
--000000000000d38909062963ec7d-- ------------=_1747571524-11788-5-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login Resent-From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2025 21:28:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 76998 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Danny Milosavljevic Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood Received: via spool by 76998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B76998.174993644122026 (code B ref 76998); Sat, 14 Jun 2025 21:28:02 +0000 Received: (at 76998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jun 2025 21:27:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45902 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uQYPG-0005im-BS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2025 17:27:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55452) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uQYPD-0005i1-C8; Sat, 14 Jun 2025 17:27:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uQYP6-0005gt-Ps; Sat, 14 Jun 2025 17:27:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=V6RYRtu2bU6zoAamhaKkwphikwH7Ac64T4OeXcPzMVQ=; b=pZ+845qoADFxSqC8lg5I WfN63m3n8JZtGKCUMVKYc0aSxiM0OIWhflojkCb5bn+TuVqgxTm7CfrpZuQ5y3m6OY1PsLWD868Ko EGHQ0ahHJanaz96l7VfPyJDNuH3Ryh+ofHDZkrqcKYqUr4hx962qp0WxHNbq4If3uD0UExvE6ArAq I3eV/SUq3HDtpMG937iuVeO2o41J/Q54RGiXrJqAZKo3T2wDtIxJ24tbZoE8PQSTu/X24bqWrL3dT hO07cu7H43/YRIYPz8ZDA8w4GPV/zlEVMd4bKOrapFi6uUYTsSX7JH4GnDLZa/XD3m+Lnm3eGVXFw UW9KZ4xkeaU+6w==; From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= In-Reply-To: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> (Danny Milosavljevic's message of "Sun, 18 May 2025 14:30:49 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2025 23:26:53 +0200 Message-ID: <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Danny, Danny Milosavljevic writes: > It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in > shepherd. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without > explanation, then now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but > safer way). This shouldn't have been removed in the first place. > It's EXTREMELY dangerous to have multiple parallel shepherds for the > same user (automated backup service destroying backups etc). Please, > let's not remove it ever again. If you=E2=80=99re referring to 649a98a6697d358a53eccc45b387e5130278b5ec (8 = years ago), I believe it wasn=E2=80=99t doing just that due to lingering. (Aside: I think the tone of this paragraph is uncalled for.) > In any case, what shepherd 1.0.4 does is stop the bleeding, but not fix t= he problem: > It prevents two (or 100) user shepherds for the same user from running in= parallel. > It does not stop shepherd when a user closed all their sessions. Yes. It just occurred to me that we probably just got it wrong from the start: =E2=80=98XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=E2=80=99 (/run/user/$UID) is specified as h= aving limited lifetime. Quoth : The lifetime of the directory MUST be bound to the user being logged in. It MUST be created when the user first logs in and if the user fully logs out the directory MUST be removed. So it was probably a bad idea in the first place for shepherd to store its socket in /run/user/$UID (even more so that this directory doesn=E2=80= =99t exist on systems without elogind/systemd). GnuPG avoids $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR for exactly this reason (there=E2=80=99s a comment in =E2=80=98homedir.c=E2=80=99). So, what can we do? In the Shepherd 1.1, we could default to $XDG_STATE_HOME instead; we probably shouldn=E2=80=99t change that in 1.0.x. Any other idea? Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: dannym@friendly-machines.com Subject: bug#76998: closed (Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 76998 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 76998@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2025 21:28:03 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1749936483-22251-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1749936483-22251-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 76998@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1749936483-22251-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jun 2025 21:27:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45899 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uQYPF-0005ii-UL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2025 17:27:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55452) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uQYPD-0005i1-C8; Sat, 14 Jun 2025 17:27:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uQYP6-0005gt-Ps; Sat, 14 Jun 2025 17:27:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=V6RYRtu2bU6zoAamhaKkwphikwH7Ac64T4OeXcPzMVQ=; b=pZ+845qoADFxSqC8lg5I WfN63m3n8JZtGKCUMVKYc0aSxiM0OIWhflojkCb5bn+TuVqgxTm7CfrpZuQ5y3m6OY1PsLWD868Ko EGHQ0ahHJanaz96l7VfPyJDNuH3Ryh+ofHDZkrqcKYqUr4hx962qp0WxHNbq4If3uD0UExvE6ArAq I3eV/SUq3HDtpMG937iuVeO2o41J/Q54RGiXrJqAZKo3T2wDtIxJ24tbZoE8PQSTu/X24bqWrL3dT hO07cu7H43/YRIYPz8ZDA8w4GPV/zlEVMd4bKOrapFi6uUYTsSX7JH4GnDLZa/XD3m+Lnm3eGVXFw UW9KZ4xkeaU+6w==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Danny Milosavljevic Subject: Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login In-Reply-To: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> (Danny Milosavljevic's message of "Sun, 18 May 2025 14:30:49 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2025 23:26:53 +0200 Message-ID: <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76998-done Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Danny, Danny Milosavljevic writes: > It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in > shepherd. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without > explanation, then now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but > safer way). This shouldn't have been removed in the first place. > It's EXTREMELY dangerous to have multiple parallel shepherds for the > same user (automated backup service destroying backups etc). Please, > let's not remove it ever again. If you=E2=80=99re referring to 649a98a6697d358a53eccc45b387e5130278b5ec (8 = years ago), I believe it wasn=E2=80=99t doing just that due to lingering. (Aside: I think the tone of this paragraph is uncalled for.) > In any case, what shepherd 1.0.4 does is stop the bleeding, but not fix t= he problem: > It prevents two (or 100) user shepherds for the same user from running in= parallel. > It does not stop shepherd when a user closed all their sessions. Yes. It just occurred to me that we probably just got it wrong from the start: =E2=80=98XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=E2=80=99 (/run/user/$UID) is specified as h= aving limited lifetime. Quoth : The lifetime of the directory MUST be bound to the user being logged in. It MUST be created when the user first logs in and if the user fully logs out the directory MUST be removed. So it was probably a bad idea in the first place for shepherd to store its socket in /run/user/$UID (even more so that this directory doesn=E2=80= =99t exist on systems without elogind/systemd). GnuPG avoids $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR for exactly this reason (there=E2=80=99s a comment in =E2=80=98homedir.c=E2=80=99). So, what can we do? In the Shepherd 1.1, we could default to $XDG_STATE_HOME instead; we probably shouldn=E2=80=99t change that in 1.0.x. Any other idea? Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. ------------=_1749936483-22251-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2025 19:10:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58160 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tsnxG-0007F3-GM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 15:10:54 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:46602) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tsnxD-0007EY-RM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 15:10:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tsnx2-0000AT-N2 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 15:10:42 -0400 Received: from shrimp.cherry.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.223.164]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tsnx0-0007fB-SC for bug-guix@gnu.org; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=23.83.223.164; envelope-from=dannym@friendly-machines.com; helo=shrimp.cherry.relay.mailchannels.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) Steps to reproduce: 1. Log into the console using your regular user 2. Log into GUI using your regular user 3. Log out of GUI 4. Switch to logged-in console 5. Run "px --tree" there 6. Observe the following: shepherd(1) accounts-daemon(1110) avahi-daemon:(2443) avahi-daemon:(2446) bluetoothd(1026) colord(25587) cupsd(2440) dbus-daemon(769) dnsmasq(1845) dnsmasq(1846) earlyoom(744) elogind(1024) gdm(1038) guix-daemon(740) libvirtd(1023) login(26536) -bash(6739) mcron(747) mingetty... (5×) ModemManager(1276) NetworkManager(1256) nginx:(797) nginx:(798) nscd(2177) polkitd(1231) postgres(852) postgres:... (6×) rasdaemon(796) rpc.idmapd(2447) rpc.mountd(2501) rpc.statd(2444) rpcbind(2441) shepherd(6395) <--- also dannym [dbus-daemon](6397) [ssh-agent](6444) [xdg-permission-](6411) wireplumber(6399) shepherd(26114) <--- dannym dbus-daemon(6881) pipewire(6882) pipewire-pulse(6883) ssh-agent(6880) wireplumber(6888) xdg-permission-store(7259) udevd(330) upowerd(1025) virtlogd(742) wpa_supplicant(1045) Those "[...]" with brackets mean that these processes were not reaped (so is defunct). What the hell? $ guix describe Generation 194 Mar 13 2025 19:11:33 (current) guix 678b3dd repository URL: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git branch: master commit: 678b3dddfe442e643fe5cff7730d4f9690c3e2c2 ------------=_1749936483-22251-1-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: xeji@cat3.de Subject: bug#67863: closed (Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <835991647.70407.1702766524281@office.mailbox.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 67863 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 67863@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2025 21:28:03 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1749936483-22251-3" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1749936483-22251-3 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 67863@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1749936483-22251-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jun 2025 21:27:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45899 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uQYPF-0005ii-UL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2025 17:27:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55452) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uQYPD-0005i1-C8; Sat, 14 Jun 2025 17:27:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uQYP6-0005gt-Ps; Sat, 14 Jun 2025 17:27:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=V6RYRtu2bU6zoAamhaKkwphikwH7Ac64T4OeXcPzMVQ=; b=pZ+845qoADFxSqC8lg5I WfN63m3n8JZtGKCUMVKYc0aSxiM0OIWhflojkCb5bn+TuVqgxTm7CfrpZuQ5y3m6OY1PsLWD868Ko EGHQ0ahHJanaz96l7VfPyJDNuH3Ryh+ofHDZkrqcKYqUr4hx962qp0WxHNbq4If3uD0UExvE6ArAq I3eV/SUq3HDtpMG937iuVeO2o41J/Q54RGiXrJqAZKo3T2wDtIxJ24tbZoE8PQSTu/X24bqWrL3dT hO07cu7H43/YRIYPz8ZDA8w4GPV/zlEVMd4bKOrapFi6uUYTsSX7JH4GnDLZa/XD3m+Lnm3eGVXFw UW9KZ4xkeaU+6w==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Danny Milosavljevic Subject: Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login In-Reply-To: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> (Danny Milosavljevic's message of "Sun, 18 May 2025 14:30:49 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2025 23:26:53 +0200 Message-ID: <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76998-done Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Danny, Danny Milosavljevic writes: > It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in > shepherd. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without > explanation, then now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but > safer way). This shouldn't have been removed in the first place. > It's EXTREMELY dangerous to have multiple parallel shepherds for the > same user (automated backup service destroying backups etc). Please, > let's not remove it ever again. If you=E2=80=99re referring to 649a98a6697d358a53eccc45b387e5130278b5ec (8 = years ago), I believe it wasn=E2=80=99t doing just that due to lingering. (Aside: I think the tone of this paragraph is uncalled for.) > In any case, what shepherd 1.0.4 does is stop the bleeding, but not fix t= he problem: > It prevents two (or 100) user shepherds for the same user from running in= parallel. > It does not stop shepherd when a user closed all their sessions. Yes. It just occurred to me that we probably just got it wrong from the start: =E2=80=98XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=E2=80=99 (/run/user/$UID) is specified as h= aving limited lifetime. Quoth : The lifetime of the directory MUST be bound to the user being logged in. It MUST be created when the user first logs in and if the user fully logs out the directory MUST be removed. So it was probably a bad idea in the first place for shepherd to store its socket in /run/user/$UID (even more so that this directory doesn=E2=80= =99t exist on systems without elogind/systemd). GnuPG avoids $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR for exactly this reason (there=E2=80=99s a comment in =E2=80=98homedir.c=E2=80=99). So, what can we do? In the Shepherd 1.1, we could default to $XDG_STATE_HOME instead; we probably shouldn=E2=80=99t change that in 1.0.x. Any other idea? Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. ------------=_1749936483-22251-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Dec 2023 05:24:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56469 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rEjdk-0004Z1-03 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:24:40 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:42584) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMT-0007hN-7A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:22 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMM-00011t-BQ for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:14 -0500 Received: from mout-p-202.mailbox.org ([80.241.56.172]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMK-0003aN-2X for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:14 -0500 Received: from smtp102.mailbox.org (smtp102.mailbox.org [IPv6:2001:67c:2050:b231:465::102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-202.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4St1L45Kxlz9sWt for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:42:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:42:04 +0100 (CET) From: xeji@cat3.de To: "bug-guix@gnu.org" Message-ID: <835991647.70407.1702766524281@office.mailbox.org> Subject: Guix Home: Multiple instances of user Shepherd created MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279" X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4St1L45Kxlz9sWt Received-SPF: pass client-ip=80.241.56.172; envelope-from=xeji@cat3.de; helo=mout-p-202.mailbox.org X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:24:35 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) ------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am trying to use the awesome Guix Home Shepherd service for syncthing (home-syncthing-service-type). Syncthing works fine but every time I log out of my last user session and log back in again, a new instance of the user shepherd is started (and tries to start syncthing again). After logging out and in a few times, there are multiple user shepherd processes. Suspected cause: Apparently the user shepherd process is not killed on last logout before elogind (correctly) removes XDG_RUNTIME_DIR. So on next login, a new empty XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is created, causing a new user shepherd to be started while the old one is still running happily. This seems to be a general issue and not particular to the syncthing home service. System: Guix System on x86_64 Guix commit: ac61e9705fb8c450c6cd0c1731fbb1b909c1f944 -- Uli ------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am trying to use the awesome Guix Home Shepherd service for syncthing (home-syncthing-service-type).
 
Syncthing works fine but every time I log out of my last user session and log back in again, a new instance of the user shepherd is started (and tries to start syncthing again).
After logging out and in a few times, there are multiple user shepherd processes.
 
Suspected cause:  Apparently the user shepherd process is not killed on last logout before elogind (correctly) removes XDG_RUNTIME_DIR.
So on next login, a new empty XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is created, causing a new user shepherd to be started while the old one is still running happily.
This seems to be a general issue and not particular to the syncthing home service.
 
System: Guix System on x86_64
Guix commit: ac61e9705fb8c450c6cd0c1731fbb1b909c1f944
 
--
Uli
------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279-- ------------=_1749936483-22251-3-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Jake Subject: bug#74912: closed (Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 74912 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2025 21:28:04 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1749936484-22251-5" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1749936484-22251-5 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 74912@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1749936484-22251-5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jun 2025 21:27:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45899 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uQYPF-0005ii-UL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2025 17:27:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55452) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uQYPD-0005i1-C8; Sat, 14 Jun 2025 17:27:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uQYP6-0005gt-Ps; Sat, 14 Jun 2025 17:27:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=V6RYRtu2bU6zoAamhaKkwphikwH7Ac64T4OeXcPzMVQ=; b=pZ+845qoADFxSqC8lg5I WfN63m3n8JZtGKCUMVKYc0aSxiM0OIWhflojkCb5bn+TuVqgxTm7CfrpZuQ5y3m6OY1PsLWD868Ko EGHQ0ahHJanaz96l7VfPyJDNuH3Ryh+ofHDZkrqcKYqUr4hx962qp0WxHNbq4If3uD0UExvE6ArAq I3eV/SUq3HDtpMG937iuVeO2o41J/Q54RGiXrJqAZKo3T2wDtIxJ24tbZoE8PQSTu/X24bqWrL3dT hO07cu7H43/YRIYPz8ZDA8w4GPV/zlEVMd4bKOrapFi6uUYTsSX7JH4GnDLZa/XD3m+Lnm3eGVXFw UW9KZ4xkeaU+6w==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Danny Milosavljevic Subject: Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login In-Reply-To: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> (Danny Milosavljevic's message of "Sun, 18 May 2025 14:30:49 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2025 23:26:53 +0200 Message-ID: <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76998-done Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Danny, Danny Milosavljevic writes: > It's good that the "is a shepherd already running" check is back in > shepherd. It was in shepherd years ago, then got removed without > explanation, then now it's back again (now in a very convoluted but > safer way). This shouldn't have been removed in the first place. > It's EXTREMELY dangerous to have multiple parallel shepherds for the > same user (automated backup service destroying backups etc). Please, > let's not remove it ever again. If you=E2=80=99re referring to 649a98a6697d358a53eccc45b387e5130278b5ec (8 = years ago), I believe it wasn=E2=80=99t doing just that due to lingering. (Aside: I think the tone of this paragraph is uncalled for.) > In any case, what shepherd 1.0.4 does is stop the bleeding, but not fix t= he problem: > It prevents two (or 100) user shepherds for the same user from running in= parallel. > It does not stop shepherd when a user closed all their sessions. Yes. It just occurred to me that we probably just got it wrong from the start: =E2=80=98XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=E2=80=99 (/run/user/$UID) is specified as h= aving limited lifetime. Quoth : The lifetime of the directory MUST be bound to the user being logged in. It MUST be created when the user first logs in and if the user fully logs out the directory MUST be removed. So it was probably a bad idea in the first place for shepherd to store its socket in /run/user/$UID (even more so that this directory doesn=E2=80= =99t exist on systems without elogind/systemd). GnuPG avoids $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR for exactly this reason (there=E2=80=99s a comment in =E2=80=98homedir.c=E2=80=99). So, what can we do? In the Shepherd 1.1, we could default to $XDG_STATE_HOME instead; we probably shouldn=E2=80=99t change that in 1.0.x. Any other idea? Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99. ------------=_1749936484-22251-5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Dec 2024 14:23:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54044 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0Z-00047d-L7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:40 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:45874) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0W-00047T-Q7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0W-0002cb-Af for bug-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:36 -0500 Received: from mail-ua1-x935.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::935]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0U-0000np-ED for bug-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:36 -0500 Received: by mail-ua1-x935.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-85c4cd95885so737952241.1 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 06:23:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1734359012; x=1734963812; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=krjudaZQaY6dzp1NtGbI7xrdKYyklUaU5MOYPgqhe1Q=; b=cke1RDFl3FVP6rlW22zQFV6Li8qAZRZu8K3Amk4LHIyYIHOfT9sbAOs3sakJirXuOX LMb6IsBdsRAugTIFcBkF11JY+2uD6IWvrJMRyjU0VZGh9xn1hCEx+f/WDp+kuquPu+N6 TnAvJLSs3MLWwzRiHd53PhoVgRywWiItA8L0AuAA7Nf/CxmRx9T1yBGU5AOLWvgJXB7s AUdfc2Ri+nysfDEQIYMExV0hwmunqjPKt5hbgLsdi4Dmv0PiyBPOwm8fdwO/JMA5m9lb +SsCAQ1sor+KXzus7otygC28HO0YN1dVgoEvgATY5wpdM0mKL701UDvtIpS6Hr+BAbRk X3fQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1734359012; x=1734963812; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=krjudaZQaY6dzp1NtGbI7xrdKYyklUaU5MOYPgqhe1Q=; b=AwePABCMxhHYYQjBGerpOQXH3IPX4Pch0rwNImbZ2l5Slv51I4DMcJzZ1IC9x6/mZa yZNsXr8jSp6Wv0+h7C09lPCpcCrsLYCZU810aeEnvvW1SKGNqSKT3t6TxqT5IGHuQ11t dzr2+56WgCeY8Wa/QQZBjkk24CN6hgesx+3p/bgW12zvBEQ4ELstKlVqlViEyxUlvkCZ a0cEmHm4Lms4xQCNOKzGkh8uj/Ux/4fxafq9DUbBfrvJ91eg9u3MMyetpj1HKCUSqEIN 2F5I5YrZ/LeIjJLmpk98fi1YNylz6EwlOI0TYxX98/Ebd0+gkpx9QGUJ5OqSTOzWsk1J Ca+g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YysmHMaJl5xfBFIUdk7xLKWuNouBZ2RoGyyYp8ZEmekove5mJt8 VLlaZuOnsCT3u2PuX5MaPxOFwCSs63L49fEjISKvbgm2hIMbXd0LIlulj12xPD97j61YrT3r5cc gFXtEJLj76NWEJfRFtY3hMkHIsmuTZSFi X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvnTaDMuuWbiY8Cjppx3Dcj8bi58MWmK3XRV8Zo2RhcYrK5nooh7+931rtz5xI Lf+5JEFrp6Bp1Q4YtnyiwVUcEEjsf9P0UBi0nQQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFD8VTzyQbpG+rIyBRdGGplO+XSRfgWfWJccodloqxfTPss+Gn3zdVVRGcMEYqKhGGMmoE/fk5QvEHqtLSVLbA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:91e:b0:515:e446:b9f9 with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-518ca48f016mr10417980e0c.12.1734359012048; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 06:23:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jake Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 14:23:20 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Shepherd: Growing number of user shepherds when relogging To: bug-guix@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d38909062963ec7d" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::935; envelope-from=jforst.mailman@gmail.com; helo=mail-ua1-x935.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: ludovic.courtes@inria.fr X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) --000000000000d38909062963ec7d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi I think I'm experiencing a bug in Shepherd since version 1.0. Whenever I log out and log back in again, my user shepherd from the previous login session is still present, and a new user shepherd spawns for the current login session. So relogging N times results in N+1 user shepherds. For example, I have relogged 5 times since I last rebooted: $ herd status root Status of root: It is running since 00:30:02 (10 minutes ago). Main PID: 23450 Command: /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf ... $ pgrep shepherd 1 9891 10777 16417 18510 21960 23450 $ ps aux | grep shepherd root 1 0.0 0.9 222872 74456 ? Sl Dec15 0:08 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --config /gnu/store/p7al8wd1inwk8f5di2q4llcpd64mjn5q-shepherd.conf jake 9891 0.0 0.2 75816 23624 ? Ss Dec15 0:04 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 10777 0.0 0.3 76224 24752 ? Ss Dec16 0:03 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 16417 0.0 0.3 75752 24004 ? Ss Dec16 0:02 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 18510 0.0 0.2 75752 23760 ? Ss Dec16 0:01 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 21960 0.0 0.2 114608 22124 ? Ss Dec16 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 23450 0.0 0.2 114204 21328 ? Ss 00:30 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 23672 0.0 0.0 6636 2552 pts/1 S+ 00:32 0:00 grep --color=auto shepherd In addition, any daemons managed by the zombie shepherds also persist! I'm experiencing this on both of my Guix System machines. One is running GDM and XFCE. The other is running GDM and CWM. Please let me know if I can provide more information. Thanks Jake --000000000000d38909062963ec7d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi

I think I'm experienc= ing a bug in Shepherd since version 1.0.=C2=A0
Whenever I log out= and log back in again, my user shepherd from the previous login session is= still present, and a new user shepherd spawns for the current login sessio= n.
So relogging N times results in N+1 user shepherds.
=
For example, I have relogged 5 times since I last rebooted:<= /div>

$ herd status root
Status of root:
=C2=A0 It is running since 00:30:02 (10 minutes ag= o).
=C2=A0 Main PID: 23450
=C2=A0 Command: /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppw= bkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c= 7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /g= nu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
...

$ pgrep shepherd
1
989110777
16417
18510
21960
23450

$=C2=A0 ps aux | grep shepherd
root =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1 =C2=A00.0 =C2= =A00.9 222872 74456 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sl =C2=A0 Dec15 =C2=A0 0:0= 8 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-au= to-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/s= hepherd --config /gnu/store/p7al8wd1inwk8f5di2q4llcpd64mjn5q-shepherd.conf<= br>jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A09891 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 =C2=A075816 23624 ? = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec15 =C2=A0 0:04 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlf= pv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/= nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --con= fig /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 10777 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.3 =C2=A076224 24752 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:03 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nr= f95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4= r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3= l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 16417 = =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.3 =C2=A075752 24004 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2= =A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:02 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0= .9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-= shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx7= 7xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 18510 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.= 2 =C2=A075752 23760 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:0= 1 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-au= to-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/s= hepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-sheph= erd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 21960 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 114608 22124 ? =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3= ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0= w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config= /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 23450 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 114204 21328 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= Ss =C2=A0 00:30 =C2=A0 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-gui= le-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7n= d5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815m= m3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 23672 =C2=A00.0 = =C2=A00.0 =C2=A0 6636 =C2=A02552 pts/1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0S+ =C2=A0 00:32 =C2=A0 = 0:00 grep --color=3Dauto shepherd

In addition,= any daemons managed by the zombie shepherds also persist!

I'm experiencing this on both of my Guix System machines. One = is running GDM and XFCE. The other is running GDM and CWM.=C2=A0
= Please let me know if I can provide more information.

<= div>Thanks
Jake
--000000000000d38909062963ec7d-- ------------=_1749936484-22251-5-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login Resent-From: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 76998 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood , Danny Milosavljevic Received: via spool by 76998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B76998.174999484622786 (code B ref 76998); Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:41:02 +0000 Received: (at 76998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jun 2025 13:40:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56522 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uQnbH-0005v2-5X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:40:46 -0400 Received: from wolfsden.cz ([37.205.8.62]:60302) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <~@wolfsden.cz>) id 1uQnbB-0005uB-Dj; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:40:39 -0400 Received: by wolfsden.cz (Postfix, from userid 104) id 65C70268EBB; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:40:35 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=wolfsden.cz; s=mail; t=1749994835; bh=1Kp3hXl1AIyGdklZph6rRtk6RA37z8vZ5NN+omg3w94=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=IY7AJ4OesqAvjpHeODgQTUPxSRI1Ue/9Z02t4AnVhujw+gNHcQxwM54c3jFq4OCvu tQfC7LCdCJkCyzp+EMGfZw5qIbJPgzJfdqy07/p6A1FmOawAZSndAuBNU1JUv14/TT vmPh6Zq9cuSpa1xHM3DPxngTmFruv/g8zQgU8QssmUNtXI9nsumqkyW52fNLfnHQ23 kw/rwKvVu9zdJLojJDHgdLLlN4HiNHrqWrobo7crWE9IvPvI4Elu/g8Rfc2ZwxZHNU nICYWjdmmY9G5EkUM4tLnezLQe7w3Q/NedTk7xqqpehg7WoFqR1rDwBSv0Y/R7xR3Q rQPH3lbk3M6CSoPriWEzNRTInsvUOdWVveUFL7eqfaTz8mcjAd9GHS9BsTrMqg/Jht gWYSFj9dieNfzQcG/V/UL6+/+WSvvinPzq9cesKFslTghu1HTMqbehwEhlRademQCf fbMtLgHiP0hVxo2nhIKM/42ndBVVkakEctxRZv5rniIFgUQ9d0F3mxlTNGbgctZ1zK RdebVI/IIh1bCahRCeX0aSqn2cPjCu9JScn//UL69DU4KZ4hC8/6GlcnyGX5d/BBrt AgIrxi7CFN/nQdHuYFJnBM4rs5NWooqxhSap1ljV7V0XXhF+ekFBX8BTP04HsL3egh 41XcJpjKfX/NJ5Xx5g+jL9cg= X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on wolfsden X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 Received: from localhost (unknown [128.0.188.242]) by wolfsden.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EF7072698BC; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:40:33 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=wolfsden.cz; s=mail; t=1749994834; bh=1Kp3hXl1AIyGdklZph6rRtk6RA37z8vZ5NN+omg3w94=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=KJPCd2JvewCiQtP2dOIFsDkJw6bJdO42tlozMLbEyG62h4238zsgDjjRj8lkeKnyU FuEQ4DuLbqxAWckvDJ4DuhKLSiwJIyN6rCdArc45XEVsLOI4+nzIM98Cm/jC1Ag8QK OJdWrVzyztm5KuHaZES3Zv3HaJkmsR04ozXsy3b1NOZN03ec1QtCAeciH0IjYqlUfp hDHhgHDvaQCBxc0yTT6nKwt/d/YATsyjB5gJPz29sn+2PTLOkvFfRpoHDEoZZFV8Oy BVqG8fLr/rn1NBjmxSMzspglJjnV44Bejf1p6wOyGYkpPB0m6g7eijj/nxwfgrTb79 rnTIGhf2fMI79k8/M+TWwD6hGTglkrgNrYT7CrGYhi0mIoOoHC/c6XaCnbSdeP1RTN CwUMPNvsfezEbfOVHr2LUU1xEnvltnnV2j5PWeu5BbHAFtYBacfI9HDIN9mvvr1AsC W+RUdg+UN1ojF/bQ8GzcH4I4n8VRhCk7FP3fkd2LBbjGV0SSX0RhE72PNlQD/+5/Ef nc7/DT/ZSki0FV/4oXmMtBqDqaU6+1OjuqvQVhl82wcNJkqbVXqz2H/H8sP3Svfj74 CgCQh4juGW/trR6LaVRDgLOeobSYswObDcvuC9L/qWF5KktWKssnb/O6W69dAwY94I 7arZlMG92lsInBpMwH8utdpU= From: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> In-Reply-To: <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?="'s message of "Sat, 14 Jun 2025 23:26:53 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 15:40:33 +0200 Message-ID: <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello :) Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: >> In any case, what shepherd 1.0.4 does is stop the bleeding, but not fix = the problem: >> It prevents two (or 100) user shepherds for the same user from running i= n parallel. >> It does not stop shepherd when a user closed all their sessions. > > Yes. It just occurred to me that we probably just got it wrong from the > start: =E2=80=98XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=E2=80=99 (/run/user/$UID) is specified as= having limited > lifetime. Quoth > : > > The lifetime of the directory MUST be bound to the user being logged > in. It MUST be created when the user first logs in and if the user > fully logs out the directory MUST be removed. > > So it was probably a bad idea in the first place for shepherd to store > its socket in /run/user/$UID (even more so that this directory doesn=E2= =80=99t > exist on systems without elogind/systemd). GnuPG avoids > $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR for exactly this reason (there=E2=80=99s a comment in > =E2=80=98homedir.c=E2=80=99). Minor correction here. Looking at the source code, GnuPG avoids the XDG_RUNTIME_DIR environment variable, but it still tries to use the /run/user/$UID directory, if it exists. > So, what can we do? > > In the Shepherd 1.1, we could default to $XDG_STATE_HOME instead; we > probably shouldn=E2=80=99t change that in 1.0.x. Not sure here, the specification says the following about this location: > The $XDG_STATE_HOME contains state data that *should persist between > (application) restarts*, but that is not important or portable enough > to the user that it should be stored in $XDG_DATA_HOME. So... control socket does not seem to fit that description. > Any other idea? Well, since you have mentioned the GnuPG as an example, we could just mirror what it does, and what I have suggested before. --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ mkdir /tmp/xxx && cd /tmp/xxx $ guix shell -u test -C findutils gnupg coreutils bash procps -- env HOME= =3D/tmp/xxx GNUPGHOME=3D/tmp/xxx bash test@xx ~ [env]$ gpg-agent --daemon gpg-agent[2]: directory '/tmp/xxx/private-keys-v1.d' created gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 started test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user /run/user /run/user/1000 /run/user/1000/gnupg /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.ssh /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.browser /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.extra /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash test 3 0.0 0.0 5516 2400 ? Ss 13:32 0:00 gpg-agent = --daemon test 5 0.0 0.0 5224 3852 ? R+ 13:32 0:00 ps aux test@xx ~ [env]$ rm -r /run/user/1000/gnupg gpg-agent[3]: socket file has been removed - shutting down gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 stopped test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user /run/user /run/user/1000 test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash test 8 0.0 0.0 5224 3776 ? R+ 13:33 0:00 ps aux --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- So my suggestion is that when the socket is deleted, the shepherd process stops itself. Tomas --=20 There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: dannym@friendly-machines.com Subject: bug#76998: closed (Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 76998 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 76998@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:41:03 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1749994863-22855-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1749994863-22855-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 76998@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1749994863-22855-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jun 2025 13:40:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56520 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uQnbG-0005uv-8x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:40:43 -0400 Received: from wolfsden.cz ([37.205.8.62]:60302) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <~@wolfsden.cz>) id 1uQnbB-0005uB-Dj; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:40:39 -0400 Received: by wolfsden.cz (Postfix, from userid 104) id 65C70268EBB; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:40:35 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=wolfsden.cz; s=mail; t=1749994835; bh=1Kp3hXl1AIyGdklZph6rRtk6RA37z8vZ5NN+omg3w94=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=IY7AJ4OesqAvjpHeODgQTUPxSRI1Ue/9Z02t4AnVhujw+gNHcQxwM54c3jFq4OCvu tQfC7LCdCJkCyzp+EMGfZw5qIbJPgzJfdqy07/p6A1FmOawAZSndAuBNU1JUv14/TT vmPh6Zq9cuSpa1xHM3DPxngTmFruv/g8zQgU8QssmUNtXI9nsumqkyW52fNLfnHQ23 kw/rwKvVu9zdJLojJDHgdLLlN4HiNHrqWrobo7crWE9IvPvI4Elu/g8Rfc2ZwxZHNU nICYWjdmmY9G5EkUM4tLnezLQe7w3Q/NedTk7xqqpehg7WoFqR1rDwBSv0Y/R7xR3Q rQPH3lbk3M6CSoPriWEzNRTInsvUOdWVveUFL7eqfaTz8mcjAd9GHS9BsTrMqg/Jht gWYSFj9dieNfzQcG/V/UL6+/+WSvvinPzq9cesKFslTghu1HTMqbehwEhlRademQCf fbMtLgHiP0hVxo2nhIKM/42ndBVVkakEctxRZv5rniIFgUQ9d0F3mxlTNGbgctZ1zK RdebVI/IIh1bCahRCeX0aSqn2cPjCu9JScn//UL69DU4KZ4hC8/6GlcnyGX5d/BBrt AgIrxi7CFN/nQdHuYFJnBM4rs5NWooqxhSap1ljV7V0XXhF+ekFBX8BTP04HsL3egh 41XcJpjKfX/NJ5Xx5g+jL9cg= X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on wolfsden X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 Received: from localhost (unknown [128.0.188.242]) by wolfsden.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EF7072698BC; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:40:33 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=wolfsden.cz; s=mail; t=1749994834; bh=1Kp3hXl1AIyGdklZph6rRtk6RA37z8vZ5NN+omg3w94=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=KJPCd2JvewCiQtP2dOIFsDkJw6bJdO42tlozMLbEyG62h4238zsgDjjRj8lkeKnyU FuEQ4DuLbqxAWckvDJ4DuhKLSiwJIyN6rCdArc45XEVsLOI4+nzIM98Cm/jC1Ag8QK OJdWrVzyztm5KuHaZES3Zv3HaJkmsR04ozXsy3b1NOZN03ec1QtCAeciH0IjYqlUfp hDHhgHDvaQCBxc0yTT6nKwt/d/YATsyjB5gJPz29sn+2PTLOkvFfRpoHDEoZZFV8Oy BVqG8fLr/rn1NBjmxSMzspglJjnV44Bejf1p6wOyGYkpPB0m6g7eijj/nxwfgrTb79 rnTIGhf2fMI79k8/M+TWwD6hGTglkrgNrYT7CrGYhi0mIoOoHC/c6XaCnbSdeP1RTN CwUMPNvsfezEbfOVHr2LUU1xEnvltnnV2j5PWeu5BbHAFtYBacfI9HDIN9mvvr1AsC W+RUdg+UN1ojF/bQ8GzcH4I4n8VRhCk7FP3fkd2LBbjGV0SSX0RhE72PNlQD/+5/Ef nc7/DT/ZSki0FV/4oXmMtBqDqaU6+1OjuqvQVhl82wcNJkqbVXqz2H/H8sP3Svfj74 CgCQh4juGW/trR6LaVRDgLOeobSYswObDcvuC9L/qWF5KktWKssnb/O6W69dAwY94I 7arZlMG92lsInBpMwH8utdpU= From: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login In-Reply-To: <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= =?utf-8?Q?=22's?= message of "Sat, 14 Jun 2025 23:26:53 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 15:40:33 +0200 Message-ID: <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76998-done Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood , Danny Milosavljevic X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello :) Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: >> In any case, what shepherd 1.0.4 does is stop the bleeding, but not fix = the problem: >> It prevents two (or 100) user shepherds for the same user from running i= n parallel. >> It does not stop shepherd when a user closed all their sessions. > > Yes. It just occurred to me that we probably just got it wrong from the > start: =E2=80=98XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=E2=80=99 (/run/user/$UID) is specified as= having limited > lifetime. Quoth > : > > The lifetime of the directory MUST be bound to the user being logged > in. It MUST be created when the user first logs in and if the user > fully logs out the directory MUST be removed. > > So it was probably a bad idea in the first place for shepherd to store > its socket in /run/user/$UID (even more so that this directory doesn=E2= =80=99t > exist on systems without elogind/systemd). GnuPG avoids > $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR for exactly this reason (there=E2=80=99s a comment in > =E2=80=98homedir.c=E2=80=99). Minor correction here. Looking at the source code, GnuPG avoids the XDG_RUNTIME_DIR environment variable, but it still tries to use the /run/user/$UID directory, if it exists. > So, what can we do? > > In the Shepherd 1.1, we could default to $XDG_STATE_HOME instead; we > probably shouldn=E2=80=99t change that in 1.0.x. Not sure here, the specification says the following about this location: > The $XDG_STATE_HOME contains state data that *should persist between > (application) restarts*, but that is not important or portable enough > to the user that it should be stored in $XDG_DATA_HOME. So... control socket does not seem to fit that description. > Any other idea? Well, since you have mentioned the GnuPG as an example, we could just mirror what it does, and what I have suggested before. --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ mkdir /tmp/xxx && cd /tmp/xxx $ guix shell -u test -C findutils gnupg coreutils bash procps -- env HOME= =3D/tmp/xxx GNUPGHOME=3D/tmp/xxx bash test@xx ~ [env]$ gpg-agent --daemon gpg-agent[2]: directory '/tmp/xxx/private-keys-v1.d' created gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 started test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user /run/user /run/user/1000 /run/user/1000/gnupg /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.ssh /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.browser /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.extra /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash test 3 0.0 0.0 5516 2400 ? Ss 13:32 0:00 gpg-agent = --daemon test 5 0.0 0.0 5224 3852 ? R+ 13:32 0:00 ps aux test@xx ~ [env]$ rm -r /run/user/1000/gnupg gpg-agent[3]: socket file has been removed - shutting down gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 stopped test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user /run/user /run/user/1000 test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash test 8 0.0 0.0 5224 3776 ? R+ 13:33 0:00 ps aux --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- So my suggestion is that when the socket is deleted, the shepherd process stops itself. Tomas --=20 There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. ------------=_1749994863-22855-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2025 19:10:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58160 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tsnxG-0007F3-GM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 15:10:54 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:46602) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tsnxD-0007EY-RM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 15:10:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tsnx2-0000AT-N2 for bug-guix@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Mar 2025 15:10:42 -0400 Received: from shrimp.cherry.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.223.164]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tsnx0-0007fB-SC for bug-guix@gnu.org; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=23.83.223.164; envelope-from=dannym@friendly-machines.com; helo=shrimp.cherry.relay.mailchannels.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) Steps to reproduce: 1. Log into the console using your regular user 2. Log into GUI using your regular user 3. Log out of GUI 4. Switch to logged-in console 5. Run "px --tree" there 6. Observe the following: shepherd(1) accounts-daemon(1110) avahi-daemon:(2443) avahi-daemon:(2446) bluetoothd(1026) colord(25587) cupsd(2440) dbus-daemon(769) dnsmasq(1845) dnsmasq(1846) earlyoom(744) elogind(1024) gdm(1038) guix-daemon(740) libvirtd(1023) login(26536) -bash(6739) mcron(747) mingetty... (5×) ModemManager(1276) NetworkManager(1256) nginx:(797) nginx:(798) nscd(2177) polkitd(1231) postgres(852) postgres:... (6×) rasdaemon(796) rpc.idmapd(2447) rpc.mountd(2501) rpc.statd(2444) rpcbind(2441) shepherd(6395) <--- also dannym [dbus-daemon](6397) [ssh-agent](6444) [xdg-permission-](6411) wireplumber(6399) shepherd(26114) <--- dannym dbus-daemon(6881) pipewire(6882) pipewire-pulse(6883) ssh-agent(6880) wireplumber(6888) xdg-permission-store(7259) udevd(330) upowerd(1025) virtlogd(742) wpa_supplicant(1045) Those "[...]" with brackets mean that these processes were not reaped (so is defunct). What the hell? $ guix describe Generation 194 Mar 13 2025 19:11:33 (current) guix 678b3dd repository URL: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git branch: master commit: 678b3dddfe442e643fe5cff7730d4f9690c3e2c2 ------------=_1749994863-22855-1-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: xeji@cat3.de Subject: bug#67863: closed (Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> <835991647.70407.1702766524281@office.mailbox.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 67863 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 67863@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:41:04 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1749994864-22855-3" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1749994864-22855-3 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 67863@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1749994864-22855-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jun 2025 13:40:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56520 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uQnbG-0005uv-8x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:40:43 -0400 Received: from wolfsden.cz ([37.205.8.62]:60302) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <~@wolfsden.cz>) id 1uQnbB-0005uB-Dj; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:40:39 -0400 Received: by wolfsden.cz (Postfix, from userid 104) id 65C70268EBB; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:40:35 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=wolfsden.cz; s=mail; t=1749994835; bh=1Kp3hXl1AIyGdklZph6rRtk6RA37z8vZ5NN+omg3w94=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=IY7AJ4OesqAvjpHeODgQTUPxSRI1Ue/9Z02t4AnVhujw+gNHcQxwM54c3jFq4OCvu tQfC7LCdCJkCyzp+EMGfZw5qIbJPgzJfdqy07/p6A1FmOawAZSndAuBNU1JUv14/TT vmPh6Zq9cuSpa1xHM3DPxngTmFruv/g8zQgU8QssmUNtXI9nsumqkyW52fNLfnHQ23 kw/rwKvVu9zdJLojJDHgdLLlN4HiNHrqWrobo7crWE9IvPvI4Elu/g8Rfc2ZwxZHNU nICYWjdmmY9G5EkUM4tLnezLQe7w3Q/NedTk7xqqpehg7WoFqR1rDwBSv0Y/R7xR3Q rQPH3lbk3M6CSoPriWEzNRTInsvUOdWVveUFL7eqfaTz8mcjAd9GHS9BsTrMqg/Jht gWYSFj9dieNfzQcG/V/UL6+/+WSvvinPzq9cesKFslTghu1HTMqbehwEhlRademQCf fbMtLgHiP0hVxo2nhIKM/42ndBVVkakEctxRZv5rniIFgUQ9d0F3mxlTNGbgctZ1zK RdebVI/IIh1bCahRCeX0aSqn2cPjCu9JScn//UL69DU4KZ4hC8/6GlcnyGX5d/BBrt AgIrxi7CFN/nQdHuYFJnBM4rs5NWooqxhSap1ljV7V0XXhF+ekFBX8BTP04HsL3egh 41XcJpjKfX/NJ5Xx5g+jL9cg= X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on wolfsden X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 Received: from localhost (unknown [128.0.188.242]) by wolfsden.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EF7072698BC; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:40:33 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=wolfsden.cz; s=mail; t=1749994834; bh=1Kp3hXl1AIyGdklZph6rRtk6RA37z8vZ5NN+omg3w94=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=KJPCd2JvewCiQtP2dOIFsDkJw6bJdO42tlozMLbEyG62h4238zsgDjjRj8lkeKnyU FuEQ4DuLbqxAWckvDJ4DuhKLSiwJIyN6rCdArc45XEVsLOI4+nzIM98Cm/jC1Ag8QK OJdWrVzyztm5KuHaZES3Zv3HaJkmsR04ozXsy3b1NOZN03ec1QtCAeciH0IjYqlUfp hDHhgHDvaQCBxc0yTT6nKwt/d/YATsyjB5gJPz29sn+2PTLOkvFfRpoHDEoZZFV8Oy BVqG8fLr/rn1NBjmxSMzspglJjnV44Bejf1p6wOyGYkpPB0m6g7eijj/nxwfgrTb79 rnTIGhf2fMI79k8/M+TWwD6hGTglkrgNrYT7CrGYhi0mIoOoHC/c6XaCnbSdeP1RTN CwUMPNvsfezEbfOVHr2LUU1xEnvltnnV2j5PWeu5BbHAFtYBacfI9HDIN9mvvr1AsC W+RUdg+UN1ojF/bQ8GzcH4I4n8VRhCk7FP3fkd2LBbjGV0SSX0RhE72PNlQD/+5/Ef nc7/DT/ZSki0FV/4oXmMtBqDqaU6+1OjuqvQVhl82wcNJkqbVXqz2H/H8sP3Svfj74 CgCQh4juGW/trR6LaVRDgLOeobSYswObDcvuC9L/qWF5KktWKssnb/O6W69dAwY94I 7arZlMG92lsInBpMwH8utdpU= From: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login In-Reply-To: <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= =?utf-8?Q?=22's?= message of "Sat, 14 Jun 2025 23:26:53 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 15:40:33 +0200 Message-ID: <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76998-done Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood , Danny Milosavljevic X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello :) Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: >> In any case, what shepherd 1.0.4 does is stop the bleeding, but not fix = the problem: >> It prevents two (or 100) user shepherds for the same user from running i= n parallel. >> It does not stop shepherd when a user closed all their sessions. > > Yes. It just occurred to me that we probably just got it wrong from the > start: =E2=80=98XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=E2=80=99 (/run/user/$UID) is specified as= having limited > lifetime. Quoth > : > > The lifetime of the directory MUST be bound to the user being logged > in. It MUST be created when the user first logs in and if the user > fully logs out the directory MUST be removed. > > So it was probably a bad idea in the first place for shepherd to store > its socket in /run/user/$UID (even more so that this directory doesn=E2= =80=99t > exist on systems without elogind/systemd). GnuPG avoids > $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR for exactly this reason (there=E2=80=99s a comment in > =E2=80=98homedir.c=E2=80=99). Minor correction here. Looking at the source code, GnuPG avoids the XDG_RUNTIME_DIR environment variable, but it still tries to use the /run/user/$UID directory, if it exists. > So, what can we do? > > In the Shepherd 1.1, we could default to $XDG_STATE_HOME instead; we > probably shouldn=E2=80=99t change that in 1.0.x. Not sure here, the specification says the following about this location: > The $XDG_STATE_HOME contains state data that *should persist between > (application) restarts*, but that is not important or portable enough > to the user that it should be stored in $XDG_DATA_HOME. So... control socket does not seem to fit that description. > Any other idea? Well, since you have mentioned the GnuPG as an example, we could just mirror what it does, and what I have suggested before. --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ mkdir /tmp/xxx && cd /tmp/xxx $ guix shell -u test -C findutils gnupg coreutils bash procps -- env HOME= =3D/tmp/xxx GNUPGHOME=3D/tmp/xxx bash test@xx ~ [env]$ gpg-agent --daemon gpg-agent[2]: directory '/tmp/xxx/private-keys-v1.d' created gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 started test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user /run/user /run/user/1000 /run/user/1000/gnupg /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.ssh /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.browser /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.extra /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash test 3 0.0 0.0 5516 2400 ? Ss 13:32 0:00 gpg-agent = --daemon test 5 0.0 0.0 5224 3852 ? R+ 13:32 0:00 ps aux test@xx ~ [env]$ rm -r /run/user/1000/gnupg gpg-agent[3]: socket file has been removed - shutting down gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 stopped test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user /run/user /run/user/1000 test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash test 8 0.0 0.0 5224 3776 ? R+ 13:33 0:00 ps aux --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- So my suggestion is that when the socket is deleted, the shepherd process stops itself. Tomas --=20 There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. ------------=_1749994864-22855-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Dec 2023 05:24:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56469 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rEjdk-0004Z1-03 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:24:40 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:42584) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMT-0007hN-7A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:22 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMM-00011t-BQ for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:14 -0500 Received: from mout-p-202.mailbox.org ([80.241.56.172]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMK-0003aN-2X for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:14 -0500 Received: from smtp102.mailbox.org (smtp102.mailbox.org [IPv6:2001:67c:2050:b231:465::102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-202.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4St1L45Kxlz9sWt for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:42:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:42:04 +0100 (CET) From: xeji@cat3.de To: "bug-guix@gnu.org" Message-ID: <835991647.70407.1702766524281@office.mailbox.org> Subject: Guix Home: Multiple instances of user Shepherd created MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279" X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4St1L45Kxlz9sWt Received-SPF: pass client-ip=80.241.56.172; envelope-from=xeji@cat3.de; helo=mout-p-202.mailbox.org X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:24:35 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) ------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am trying to use the awesome Guix Home Shepherd service for syncthing (home-syncthing-service-type). Syncthing works fine but every time I log out of my last user session and log back in again, a new instance of the user shepherd is started (and tries to start syncthing again). After logging out and in a few times, there are multiple user shepherd processes. Suspected cause: Apparently the user shepherd process is not killed on last logout before elogind (correctly) removes XDG_RUNTIME_DIR. So on next login, a new empty XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is created, causing a new user shepherd to be started while the old one is still running happily. This seems to be a general issue and not particular to the syncthing home service. System: Guix System on x86_64 Guix commit: ac61e9705fb8c450c6cd0c1731fbb1b909c1f944 -- Uli ------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am trying to use the awesome Guix Home Shepherd service for syncthing (home-syncthing-service-type).
 
Syncthing works fine but every time I log out of my last user session and log back in again, a new instance of the user shepherd is started (and tries to start syncthing again).
After logging out and in a few times, there are multiple user shepherd processes.
 
Suspected cause:  Apparently the user shepherd process is not killed on last logout before elogind (correctly) removes XDG_RUNTIME_DIR.
So on next login, a new empty XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is created, causing a new user shepherd to be started while the old one is still running happily.
This seems to be a general issue and not particular to the syncthing home service.
 
System: Guix System on x86_64
Guix commit: ac61e9705fb8c450c6cd0c1731fbb1b909c1f944
 
--
Uli
------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279-- ------------=_1749994864-22855-3-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Jake Subject: bug#74912: closed (Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 74912 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:41:04 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1749994864-22855-5" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1749994864-22855-5 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 74912@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1749994864-22855-5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jun 2025 13:40:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56520 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uQnbG-0005uv-8x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:40:43 -0400 Received: from wolfsden.cz ([37.205.8.62]:60302) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <~@wolfsden.cz>) id 1uQnbB-0005uB-Dj; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:40:39 -0400 Received: by wolfsden.cz (Postfix, from userid 104) id 65C70268EBB; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:40:35 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=wolfsden.cz; s=mail; t=1749994835; bh=1Kp3hXl1AIyGdklZph6rRtk6RA37z8vZ5NN+omg3w94=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=IY7AJ4OesqAvjpHeODgQTUPxSRI1Ue/9Z02t4AnVhujw+gNHcQxwM54c3jFq4OCvu tQfC7LCdCJkCyzp+EMGfZw5qIbJPgzJfdqy07/p6A1FmOawAZSndAuBNU1JUv14/TT vmPh6Zq9cuSpa1xHM3DPxngTmFruv/g8zQgU8QssmUNtXI9nsumqkyW52fNLfnHQ23 kw/rwKvVu9zdJLojJDHgdLLlN4HiNHrqWrobo7crWE9IvPvI4Elu/g8Rfc2ZwxZHNU nICYWjdmmY9G5EkUM4tLnezLQe7w3Q/NedTk7xqqpehg7WoFqR1rDwBSv0Y/R7xR3Q rQPH3lbk3M6CSoPriWEzNRTInsvUOdWVveUFL7eqfaTz8mcjAd9GHS9BsTrMqg/Jht gWYSFj9dieNfzQcG/V/UL6+/+WSvvinPzq9cesKFslTghu1HTMqbehwEhlRademQCf fbMtLgHiP0hVxo2nhIKM/42ndBVVkakEctxRZv5rniIFgUQ9d0F3mxlTNGbgctZ1zK RdebVI/IIh1bCahRCeX0aSqn2cPjCu9JScn//UL69DU4KZ4hC8/6GlcnyGX5d/BBrt AgIrxi7CFN/nQdHuYFJnBM4rs5NWooqxhSap1ljV7V0XXhF+ekFBX8BTP04HsL3egh 41XcJpjKfX/NJ5Xx5g+jL9cg= X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on wolfsden X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 Received: from localhost (unknown [128.0.188.242]) by wolfsden.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EF7072698BC; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:40:33 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=wolfsden.cz; s=mail; t=1749994834; bh=1Kp3hXl1AIyGdklZph6rRtk6RA37z8vZ5NN+omg3w94=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=KJPCd2JvewCiQtP2dOIFsDkJw6bJdO42tlozMLbEyG62h4238zsgDjjRj8lkeKnyU FuEQ4DuLbqxAWckvDJ4DuhKLSiwJIyN6rCdArc45XEVsLOI4+nzIM98Cm/jC1Ag8QK OJdWrVzyztm5KuHaZES3Zv3HaJkmsR04ozXsy3b1NOZN03ec1QtCAeciH0IjYqlUfp hDHhgHDvaQCBxc0yTT6nKwt/d/YATsyjB5gJPz29sn+2PTLOkvFfRpoHDEoZZFV8Oy BVqG8fLr/rn1NBjmxSMzspglJjnV44Bejf1p6wOyGYkpPB0m6g7eijj/nxwfgrTb79 rnTIGhf2fMI79k8/M+TWwD6hGTglkrgNrYT7CrGYhi0mIoOoHC/c6XaCnbSdeP1RTN CwUMPNvsfezEbfOVHr2LUU1xEnvltnnV2j5PWeu5BbHAFtYBacfI9HDIN9mvvr1AsC W+RUdg+UN1ojF/bQ8GzcH4I4n8VRhCk7FP3fkd2LBbjGV0SSX0RhE72PNlQD/+5/Ef nc7/DT/ZSki0FV/4oXmMtBqDqaU6+1OjuqvQVhl82wcNJkqbVXqz2H/H8sP3Svfj74 CgCQh4juGW/trR6LaVRDgLOeobSYswObDcvuC9L/qWF5KktWKssnb/O6W69dAwY94I 7arZlMG92lsInBpMwH8utdpU= From: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Subject: Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login In-Reply-To: <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= =?utf-8?Q?=22's?= message of "Sat, 14 Jun 2025 23:26:53 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 15:40:33 +0200 Message-ID: <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76998-done Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood , Danny Milosavljevic X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello :) Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: >> In any case, what shepherd 1.0.4 does is stop the bleeding, but not fix = the problem: >> It prevents two (or 100) user shepherds for the same user from running i= n parallel. >> It does not stop shepherd when a user closed all their sessions. > > Yes. It just occurred to me that we probably just got it wrong from the > start: =E2=80=98XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=E2=80=99 (/run/user/$UID) is specified as= having limited > lifetime. Quoth > : > > The lifetime of the directory MUST be bound to the user being logged > in. It MUST be created when the user first logs in and if the user > fully logs out the directory MUST be removed. > > So it was probably a bad idea in the first place for shepherd to store > its socket in /run/user/$UID (even more so that this directory doesn=E2= =80=99t > exist on systems without elogind/systemd). GnuPG avoids > $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR for exactly this reason (there=E2=80=99s a comment in > =E2=80=98homedir.c=E2=80=99). Minor correction here. Looking at the source code, GnuPG avoids the XDG_RUNTIME_DIR environment variable, but it still tries to use the /run/user/$UID directory, if it exists. > So, what can we do? > > In the Shepherd 1.1, we could default to $XDG_STATE_HOME instead; we > probably shouldn=E2=80=99t change that in 1.0.x. Not sure here, the specification says the following about this location: > The $XDG_STATE_HOME contains state data that *should persist between > (application) restarts*, but that is not important or portable enough > to the user that it should be stored in $XDG_DATA_HOME. So... control socket does not seem to fit that description. > Any other idea? Well, since you have mentioned the GnuPG as an example, we could just mirror what it does, and what I have suggested before. --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ mkdir /tmp/xxx && cd /tmp/xxx $ guix shell -u test -C findutils gnupg coreutils bash procps -- env HOME= =3D/tmp/xxx GNUPGHOME=3D/tmp/xxx bash test@xx ~ [env]$ gpg-agent --daemon gpg-agent[2]: directory '/tmp/xxx/private-keys-v1.d' created gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 started test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user /run/user /run/user/1000 /run/user/1000/gnupg /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.ssh /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.browser /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.extra /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash test 3 0.0 0.0 5516 2400 ? Ss 13:32 0:00 gpg-agent = --daemon test 5 0.0 0.0 5224 3852 ? R+ 13:32 0:00 ps aux test@xx ~ [env]$ rm -r /run/user/1000/gnupg gpg-agent[3]: socket file has been removed - shutting down gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 stopped test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user /run/user /run/user/1000 test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash test 8 0.0 0.0 5224 3776 ? R+ 13:33 0:00 ps aux --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- So my suggestion is that when the socket is deleted, the shepherd process stops itself. Tomas --=20 There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. ------------=_1749994864-22855-5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Dec 2024 14:23:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54044 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0Z-00047d-L7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:40 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:45874) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0W-00047T-Q7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0W-0002cb-Af for bug-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:36 -0500 Received: from mail-ua1-x935.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::935]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0U-0000np-ED for bug-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:36 -0500 Received: by mail-ua1-x935.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-85c4cd95885so737952241.1 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 06:23:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1734359012; x=1734963812; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=krjudaZQaY6dzp1NtGbI7xrdKYyklUaU5MOYPgqhe1Q=; b=cke1RDFl3FVP6rlW22zQFV6Li8qAZRZu8K3Amk4LHIyYIHOfT9sbAOs3sakJirXuOX LMb6IsBdsRAugTIFcBkF11JY+2uD6IWvrJMRyjU0VZGh9xn1hCEx+f/WDp+kuquPu+N6 TnAvJLSs3MLWwzRiHd53PhoVgRywWiItA8L0AuAA7Nf/CxmRx9T1yBGU5AOLWvgJXB7s AUdfc2Ri+nysfDEQIYMExV0hwmunqjPKt5hbgLsdi4Dmv0PiyBPOwm8fdwO/JMA5m9lb +SsCAQ1sor+KXzus7otygC28HO0YN1dVgoEvgATY5wpdM0mKL701UDvtIpS6Hr+BAbRk X3fQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1734359012; x=1734963812; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=krjudaZQaY6dzp1NtGbI7xrdKYyklUaU5MOYPgqhe1Q=; b=AwePABCMxhHYYQjBGerpOQXH3IPX4Pch0rwNImbZ2l5Slv51I4DMcJzZ1IC9x6/mZa yZNsXr8jSp6Wv0+h7C09lPCpcCrsLYCZU810aeEnvvW1SKGNqSKT3t6TxqT5IGHuQ11t dzr2+56WgCeY8Wa/QQZBjkk24CN6hgesx+3p/bgW12zvBEQ4ELstKlVqlViEyxUlvkCZ a0cEmHm4Lms4xQCNOKzGkh8uj/Ux/4fxafq9DUbBfrvJ91eg9u3MMyetpj1HKCUSqEIN 2F5I5YrZ/LeIjJLmpk98fi1YNylz6EwlOI0TYxX98/Ebd0+gkpx9QGUJ5OqSTOzWsk1J Ca+g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YysmHMaJl5xfBFIUdk7xLKWuNouBZ2RoGyyYp8ZEmekove5mJt8 VLlaZuOnsCT3u2PuX5MaPxOFwCSs63L49fEjISKvbgm2hIMbXd0LIlulj12xPD97j61YrT3r5cc gFXtEJLj76NWEJfRFtY3hMkHIsmuTZSFi X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvnTaDMuuWbiY8Cjppx3Dcj8bi58MWmK3XRV8Zo2RhcYrK5nooh7+931rtz5xI Lf+5JEFrp6Bp1Q4YtnyiwVUcEEjsf9P0UBi0nQQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFD8VTzyQbpG+rIyBRdGGplO+XSRfgWfWJccodloqxfTPss+Gn3zdVVRGcMEYqKhGGMmoE/fk5QvEHqtLSVLbA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:91e:b0:515:e446:b9f9 with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-518ca48f016mr10417980e0c.12.1734359012048; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 06:23:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jake Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 14:23:20 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Shepherd: Growing number of user shepherds when relogging To: bug-guix@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d38909062963ec7d" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::935; envelope-from=jforst.mailman@gmail.com; helo=mail-ua1-x935.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: ludovic.courtes@inria.fr X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) --000000000000d38909062963ec7d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi I think I'm experiencing a bug in Shepherd since version 1.0. Whenever I log out and log back in again, my user shepherd from the previous login session is still present, and a new user shepherd spawns for the current login session. So relogging N times results in N+1 user shepherds. For example, I have relogged 5 times since I last rebooted: $ herd status root Status of root: It is running since 00:30:02 (10 minutes ago). Main PID: 23450 Command: /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf ... $ pgrep shepherd 1 9891 10777 16417 18510 21960 23450 $ ps aux | grep shepherd root 1 0.0 0.9 222872 74456 ? Sl Dec15 0:08 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --config /gnu/store/p7al8wd1inwk8f5di2q4llcpd64mjn5q-shepherd.conf jake 9891 0.0 0.2 75816 23624 ? Ss Dec15 0:04 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 10777 0.0 0.3 76224 24752 ? Ss Dec16 0:03 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 16417 0.0 0.3 75752 24004 ? Ss Dec16 0:02 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 18510 0.0 0.2 75752 23760 ? Ss Dec16 0:01 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 21960 0.0 0.2 114608 22124 ? Ss Dec16 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 23450 0.0 0.2 114204 21328 ? Ss 00:30 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 23672 0.0 0.0 6636 2552 pts/1 S+ 00:32 0:00 grep --color=auto shepherd In addition, any daemons managed by the zombie shepherds also persist! I'm experiencing this on both of my Guix System machines. One is running GDM and XFCE. The other is running GDM and CWM. Please let me know if I can provide more information. Thanks Jake --000000000000d38909062963ec7d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi

I think I'm experienc= ing a bug in Shepherd since version 1.0.=C2=A0
Whenever I log out= and log back in again, my user shepherd from the previous login session is= still present, and a new user shepherd spawns for the current login sessio= n.
So relogging N times results in N+1 user shepherds.
=
For example, I have relogged 5 times since I last rebooted:<= /div>

$ herd status root
Status of root:
=C2=A0 It is running since 00:30:02 (10 minutes ag= o).
=C2=A0 Main PID: 23450
=C2=A0 Command: /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppw= bkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c= 7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /g= nu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
...

$ pgrep shepherd
1
989110777
16417
18510
21960
23450

$=C2=A0 ps aux | grep shepherd
root =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1 =C2=A00.0 =C2= =A00.9 222872 74456 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sl =C2=A0 Dec15 =C2=A0 0:0= 8 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-au= to-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/s= hepherd --config /gnu/store/p7al8wd1inwk8f5di2q4llcpd64mjn5q-shepherd.conf<= br>jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A09891 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 =C2=A075816 23624 ? = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec15 =C2=A0 0:04 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlf= pv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/= nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --con= fig /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 10777 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.3 =C2=A076224 24752 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:03 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nr= f95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4= r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3= l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 16417 = =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.3 =C2=A075752 24004 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2= =A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:02 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0= .9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-= shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx7= 7xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 18510 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.= 2 =C2=A075752 23760 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:0= 1 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-au= to-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/s= hepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-sheph= erd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 21960 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 114608 22124 ? =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3= ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0= w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config= /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 23450 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 114204 21328 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= Ss =C2=A0 00:30 =C2=A0 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-gui= le-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7n= d5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815m= m3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 23672 =C2=A00.0 = =C2=A00.0 =C2=A0 6636 =C2=A02552 pts/1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0S+ =C2=A0 00:32 =C2=A0 = 0:00 grep --color=3Dauto shepherd

In addition,= any daemons managed by the zombie shepherds also persist!

I'm experiencing this on both of my Guix System machines. One = is running GDM and XFCE. The other is running GDM and CWM.=C2=A0
= Please let me know if I can provide more information.

<= div>Thanks
Jake
--000000000000d38909062963ec7d-- ------------=_1749994864-22855-5-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: dannym@friendly-machines.com Subject: bug#76998: closed (Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <87qzzjddd5.fsf@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 76998 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 76998@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 13:37:06 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1750081026-29917-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1750081026-29917-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 76998@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1750081026-29917-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2025 13:37:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44495 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRA1E-0007lX-S7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:37:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34524) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRA1A-0007k6-6s; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:36:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uRA13-00083y-7S; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:36:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=Vuh2o4WMmSNMywS+pCQHNfaPf8HIJJH1H7EylPQH09A=; b=hAUGGanGUuIfybAxJbnJ O8tMtn+cZboIOPxuS8frgEGJSvUS/UJWZgRwKQRjrZuj+6tgsKkKorUHDa5q0iGxB8dxk1OzErR5m fop96S59YM1AsUjCYTXv605rcr2ukLQmfX9frvX6GQdxGZXU9gec4ov61g+MFynyLLYdKFVc5AgTf kogvbq/VKDqPth+3kCFP97eadyuJXo+JDVKxEM1DzzslyeVYIFLJdXusS7NItDaLt1BMYFWf9FCzk i+JecFPlcd/yVFAg9CHiiqsHYxvKtnAuLpERtnOzciqLs5VvzZ+tZx9NlNI+BTUgEBP15132c/O5q bdCJcsf77Ua5CQ==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> Subject: Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login In-Reply-To: <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> (Tomas Volf's message of "Sun, 15 Jun 2025 15:40:33 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.11; emacs 30.1 X-URL: https://people.bordeaux.inria.fr/lcourtes/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu X-Revolutionary-Date: Octidi 28 Prairial an 233 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9vol?= =?utf-8?Q?ution=2C?= jour du Thym Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 15:28:54 +0200 Message-ID: <87qzzjddd5.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76998-done Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood , Danny Milosavljevic X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> writes: > Well, since you have mentioned the GnuPG as an example, we could just > mirror what it does, and what I have suggested before. > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > $ mkdir /tmp/xxx && cd /tmp/xxx > $ guix shell -u test -C findutils gnupg coreutils bash procps -- env HOME= =3D/tmp/xxx GNUPGHOME=3D/tmp/xxx bash > test@xx ~ [env]$ gpg-agent --daemon > gpg-agent[2]: directory '/tmp/xxx/private-keys-v1.d' created > gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 started > test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user > /run/user > /run/user/1000 > /run/user/1000/gnupg > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.ssh > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.browser > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.extra > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent > test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux > USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND > test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash > test 3 0.0 0.0 5516 2400 ? Ss 13:32 0:00 gpg-agen= t --daemon > test 5 0.0 0.0 5224 3852 ? R+ 13:32 0:00 ps aux > test@xx ~ [env]$ rm -r /run/user/1000/gnupg > gpg-agent[3]: socket file has been removed - shutting down > gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 stopped > test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user > /run/user > /run/user/1000 > test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux > USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND > test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash > test 8 0.0 0.0 5224 3776 ? R+ 13:33 0:00 ps aux > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > So my suggestion is that when the socket is deleted, the shepherd > process stops itself. Brilliant! The only downside is that it=E2=80=99ll be a bit of work (using inotify on = Linux and some other method elsewhere, presumably polling) but it definitely sounds like a good plan. I can look into it later it nobody beats me at it. 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=23.83.223.164; envelope-from=dannym@friendly-machines.com; helo=shrimp.cherry.relay.mailchannels.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) Steps to reproduce: 1. Log into the console using your regular user 2. Log into GUI using your regular user 3. Log out of GUI 4. Switch to logged-in console 5. Run "px --tree" there 6. Observe the following: shepherd(1) accounts-daemon(1110) avahi-daemon:(2443) avahi-daemon:(2446) bluetoothd(1026) colord(25587) cupsd(2440) dbus-daemon(769) dnsmasq(1845) dnsmasq(1846) earlyoom(744) elogind(1024) gdm(1038) guix-daemon(740) libvirtd(1023) login(26536) -bash(6739) mcron(747) mingetty... (5×) ModemManager(1276) NetworkManager(1256) nginx:(797) nginx:(798) nscd(2177) polkitd(1231) postgres(852) postgres:... (6×) rasdaemon(796) rpc.idmapd(2447) rpc.mountd(2501) rpc.statd(2444) rpcbind(2441) shepherd(6395) <--- also dannym [dbus-daemon](6397) [ssh-agent](6444) [xdg-permission-](6411) wireplumber(6399) shepherd(26114) <--- dannym dbus-daemon(6881) pipewire(6882) pipewire-pulse(6883) ssh-agent(6880) wireplumber(6888) xdg-permission-store(7259) udevd(330) upowerd(1025) virtlogd(742) wpa_supplicant(1045) Those "[...]" with brackets mean that these processes were not reaped (so is defunct). What the hell? $ guix describe Generation 194 Mar 13 2025 19:11:33 (current) guix 678b3dd repository URL: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git branch: master commit: 678b3dddfe442e643fe5cff7730d4f9690c3e2c2 ------------=_1750081026-29917-1-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: xeji@cat3.de Subject: bug#67863: closed (Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <87qzzjddd5.fsf@gnu.org> <835991647.70407.1702766524281@office.mailbox.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 67863 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 67863@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 13:37:07 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1750081027-29917-3" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1750081027-29917-3 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 67863@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1750081027-29917-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2025 13:37:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44495 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRA1E-0007lX-S7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:37:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34524) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRA1A-0007k6-6s; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:36:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uRA13-00083y-7S; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:36:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=Vuh2o4WMmSNMywS+pCQHNfaPf8HIJJH1H7EylPQH09A=; b=hAUGGanGUuIfybAxJbnJ O8tMtn+cZboIOPxuS8frgEGJSvUS/UJWZgRwKQRjrZuj+6tgsKkKorUHDa5q0iGxB8dxk1OzErR5m fop96S59YM1AsUjCYTXv605rcr2ukLQmfX9frvX6GQdxGZXU9gec4ov61g+MFynyLLYdKFVc5AgTf kogvbq/VKDqPth+3kCFP97eadyuJXo+JDVKxEM1DzzslyeVYIFLJdXusS7NItDaLt1BMYFWf9FCzk i+JecFPlcd/yVFAg9CHiiqsHYxvKtnAuLpERtnOzciqLs5VvzZ+tZx9NlNI+BTUgEBP15132c/O5q bdCJcsf77Ua5CQ==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> Subject: Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login In-Reply-To: <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> (Tomas Volf's message of "Sun, 15 Jun 2025 15:40:33 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.11; emacs 30.1 X-URL: https://people.bordeaux.inria.fr/lcourtes/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu X-Revolutionary-Date: Octidi 28 Prairial an 233 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9vol?= =?utf-8?Q?ution=2C?= jour du Thym Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 15:28:54 +0200 Message-ID: <87qzzjddd5.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76998-done Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood , Danny Milosavljevic X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> writes: > Well, since you have mentioned the GnuPG as an example, we could just > mirror what it does, and what I have suggested before. > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > $ mkdir /tmp/xxx && cd /tmp/xxx > $ guix shell -u test -C findutils gnupg coreutils bash procps -- env HOME= =3D/tmp/xxx GNUPGHOME=3D/tmp/xxx bash > test@xx ~ [env]$ gpg-agent --daemon > gpg-agent[2]: directory '/tmp/xxx/private-keys-v1.d' created > gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 started > test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user > /run/user > /run/user/1000 > /run/user/1000/gnupg > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.ssh > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.browser > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.extra > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent > test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux > USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND > test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash > test 3 0.0 0.0 5516 2400 ? Ss 13:32 0:00 gpg-agen= t --daemon > test 5 0.0 0.0 5224 3852 ? R+ 13:32 0:00 ps aux > test@xx ~ [env]$ rm -r /run/user/1000/gnupg > gpg-agent[3]: socket file has been removed - shutting down > gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 stopped > test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user > /run/user > /run/user/1000 > test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux > USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND > test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash > test 8 0.0 0.0 5224 3776 ? R+ 13:33 0:00 ps aux > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > So my suggestion is that when the socket is deleted, the shepherd > process stops itself. Brilliant! The only downside is that it=E2=80=99ll be a bit of work (using inotify on = Linux and some other method elsewhere, presumably polling) but it definitely sounds like a good plan. I can look into it later it nobody beats me at it. Ludo=E2=80=99. ------------=_1750081027-29917-3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Dec 2023 05:24:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56469 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rEjdk-0004Z1-03 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:24:40 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:42584) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMT-0007hN-7A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:22 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMM-00011t-BQ for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:14 -0500 Received: from mout-p-202.mailbox.org ([80.241.56.172]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEdMK-0003aN-2X for bug-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:42:14 -0500 Received: from smtp102.mailbox.org (smtp102.mailbox.org [IPv6:2001:67c:2050:b231:465::102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-202.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4St1L45Kxlz9sWt for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:42:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 23:42:04 +0100 (CET) From: xeji@cat3.de To: "bug-guix@gnu.org" Message-ID: <835991647.70407.1702766524281@office.mailbox.org> Subject: Guix Home: Multiple instances of user Shepherd created MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279" X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4St1L45Kxlz9sWt Received-SPF: pass client-ip=80.241.56.172; envelope-from=xeji@cat3.de; helo=mout-p-202.mailbox.org X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:24:35 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) ------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am trying to use the awesome Guix Home Shepherd service for syncthing (home-syncthing-service-type). Syncthing works fine but every time I log out of my last user session and log back in again, a new instance of the user shepherd is started (and tries to start syncthing again). After logging out and in a few times, there are multiple user shepherd processes. Suspected cause: Apparently the user shepherd process is not killed on last logout before elogind (correctly) removes XDG_RUNTIME_DIR. So on next login, a new empty XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is created, causing a new user shepherd to be started while the old one is still running happily. This seems to be a general issue and not particular to the syncthing home service. System: Guix System on x86_64 Guix commit: ac61e9705fb8c450c6cd0c1731fbb1b909c1f944 -- Uli ------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am trying to use the awesome Guix Home Shepherd service for syncthing (home-syncthing-service-type).
 
Syncthing works fine but every time I log out of my last user session and log back in again, a new instance of the user shepherd is started (and tries to start syncthing again).
After logging out and in a few times, there are multiple user shepherd processes.
 
Suspected cause:  Apparently the user shepherd process is not killed on last logout before elogind (correctly) removes XDG_RUNTIME_DIR.
So on next login, a new empty XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is created, causing a new user shepherd to be started while the old one is still running happily.
This seems to be a general issue and not particular to the syncthing home service.
 
System: Guix System on x86_64
Guix commit: ac61e9705fb8c450c6cd0c1731fbb1b909c1f944
 
--
Uli
------=_Part_70406_842581498.1702766524279-- ------------=_1750081027-29917-3-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Jake Subject: bug#74912: closed (Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login) Message-ID: References: <87qzzjddd5.fsf@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 74912 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 13:37:07 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1750081027-29917-5" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1750081027-29917-5 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on lo= gin which was filed against the guix package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 74912@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 76998: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D76998 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1750081027-29917-5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2025 13:37:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44495 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRA1E-0007lX-S7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:37:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34524) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRA1A-0007k6-6s; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:36:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uRA13-00083y-7S; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:36:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=Vuh2o4WMmSNMywS+pCQHNfaPf8HIJJH1H7EylPQH09A=; b=hAUGGanGUuIfybAxJbnJ O8tMtn+cZboIOPxuS8frgEGJSvUS/UJWZgRwKQRjrZuj+6tgsKkKorUHDa5q0iGxB8dxk1OzErR5m fop96S59YM1AsUjCYTXv605rcr2ukLQmfX9frvX6GQdxGZXU9gec4ov61g+MFynyLLYdKFVc5AgTf kogvbq/VKDqPth+3kCFP97eadyuJXo+JDVKxEM1DzzslyeVYIFLJdXusS7NItDaLt1BMYFWf9FCzk i+JecFPlcd/yVFAg9CHiiqsHYxvKtnAuLpERtnOzciqLs5VvzZ+tZx9NlNI+BTUgEBP15132c/O5q bdCJcsf77Ua5CQ==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> Subject: Re: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login In-Reply-To: <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> (Tomas Volf's message of "Sun, 15 Jun 2025 15:40:33 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.11; emacs 30.1 X-URL: https://people.bordeaux.inria.fr/lcourtes/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu X-Revolutionary-Date: Octidi 28 Prairial an 233 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9vol?= =?utf-8?Q?ution=2C?= jour du Thym Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 15:28:54 +0200 Message-ID: <87qzzjddd5.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76998-done Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood , Danny Milosavljevic X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> writes: > Well, since you have mentioned the GnuPG as an example, we could just > mirror what it does, and what I have suggested before. > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > $ mkdir /tmp/xxx && cd /tmp/xxx > $ guix shell -u test -C findutils gnupg coreutils bash procps -- env HOME= =3D/tmp/xxx GNUPGHOME=3D/tmp/xxx bash > test@xx ~ [env]$ gpg-agent --daemon > gpg-agent[2]: directory '/tmp/xxx/private-keys-v1.d' created > gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 started > test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user > /run/user > /run/user/1000 > /run/user/1000/gnupg > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.ssh > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.browser > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.extra > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent > test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux > USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND > test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash > test 3 0.0 0.0 5516 2400 ? Ss 13:32 0:00 gpg-agen= t --daemon > test 5 0.0 0.0 5224 3852 ? R+ 13:32 0:00 ps aux > test@xx ~ [env]$ rm -r /run/user/1000/gnupg > gpg-agent[3]: socket file has been removed - shutting down > gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 stopped > test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user > /run/user > /run/user/1000 > test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux > USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND > test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash > test 8 0.0 0.0 5224 3776 ? R+ 13:33 0:00 ps aux > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > So my suggestion is that when the socket is deleted, the shepherd > process stops itself. Brilliant! The only downside is that it=E2=80=99ll be a bit of work (using inotify on = Linux and some other method elsewhere, presumably polling) but it definitely sounds like a good plan. I can look into it later it nobody beats me at it. Ludo=E2=80=99. ------------=_1750081027-29917-5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Dec 2024 14:23:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54044 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0Z-00047d-L7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:40 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:45874) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0W-00047T-Q7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0W-0002cb-Af for bug-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:36 -0500 Received: from mail-ua1-x935.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::935]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tNC0U-0000np-ED for bug-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:23:36 -0500 Received: by mail-ua1-x935.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-85c4cd95885so737952241.1 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 06:23:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1734359012; x=1734963812; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=krjudaZQaY6dzp1NtGbI7xrdKYyklUaU5MOYPgqhe1Q=; b=cke1RDFl3FVP6rlW22zQFV6Li8qAZRZu8K3Amk4LHIyYIHOfT9sbAOs3sakJirXuOX LMb6IsBdsRAugTIFcBkF11JY+2uD6IWvrJMRyjU0VZGh9xn1hCEx+f/WDp+kuquPu+N6 TnAvJLSs3MLWwzRiHd53PhoVgRywWiItA8L0AuAA7Nf/CxmRx9T1yBGU5AOLWvgJXB7s AUdfc2Ri+nysfDEQIYMExV0hwmunqjPKt5hbgLsdi4Dmv0PiyBPOwm8fdwO/JMA5m9lb +SsCAQ1sor+KXzus7otygC28HO0YN1dVgoEvgATY5wpdM0mKL701UDvtIpS6Hr+BAbRk X3fQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1734359012; x=1734963812; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=krjudaZQaY6dzp1NtGbI7xrdKYyklUaU5MOYPgqhe1Q=; b=AwePABCMxhHYYQjBGerpOQXH3IPX4Pch0rwNImbZ2l5Slv51I4DMcJzZ1IC9x6/mZa yZNsXr8jSp6Wv0+h7C09lPCpcCrsLYCZU810aeEnvvW1SKGNqSKT3t6TxqT5IGHuQ11t dzr2+56WgCeY8Wa/QQZBjkk24CN6hgesx+3p/bgW12zvBEQ4ELstKlVqlViEyxUlvkCZ a0cEmHm4Lms4xQCNOKzGkh8uj/Ux/4fxafq9DUbBfrvJ91eg9u3MMyetpj1HKCUSqEIN 2F5I5YrZ/LeIjJLmpk98fi1YNylz6EwlOI0TYxX98/Ebd0+gkpx9QGUJ5OqSTOzWsk1J Ca+g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YysmHMaJl5xfBFIUdk7xLKWuNouBZ2RoGyyYp8ZEmekove5mJt8 VLlaZuOnsCT3u2PuX5MaPxOFwCSs63L49fEjISKvbgm2hIMbXd0LIlulj12xPD97j61YrT3r5cc gFXtEJLj76NWEJfRFtY3hMkHIsmuTZSFi X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvnTaDMuuWbiY8Cjppx3Dcj8bi58MWmK3XRV8Zo2RhcYrK5nooh7+931rtz5xI Lf+5JEFrp6Bp1Q4YtnyiwVUcEEjsf9P0UBi0nQQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFD8VTzyQbpG+rIyBRdGGplO+XSRfgWfWJccodloqxfTPss+Gn3zdVVRGcMEYqKhGGMmoE/fk5QvEHqtLSVLbA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:91e:b0:515:e446:b9f9 with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-518ca48f016mr10417980e0c.12.1734359012048; Mon, 16 Dec 2024 06:23:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jake Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2024 14:23:20 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Shepherd: Growing number of user shepherds when relogging To: bug-guix@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d38909062963ec7d" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::935; envelope-from=jforst.mailman@gmail.com; helo=mail-ua1-x935.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: ludovic.courtes@inria.fr X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) --000000000000d38909062963ec7d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi I think I'm experiencing a bug in Shepherd since version 1.0. Whenever I log out and log back in again, my user shepherd from the previous login session is still present, and a new user shepherd spawns for the current login session. So relogging N times results in N+1 user shepherds. For example, I have relogged 5 times since I last rebooted: $ herd status root Status of root: It is running since 00:30:02 (10 minutes ago). Main PID: 23450 Command: /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf ... $ pgrep shepherd 1 9891 10777 16417 18510 21960 23450 $ ps aux | grep shepherd root 1 0.0 0.9 222872 74456 ? Sl Dec15 0:08 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --config /gnu/store/p7al8wd1inwk8f5di2q4llcpd64mjn5q-shepherd.conf jake 9891 0.0 0.2 75816 23624 ? Ss Dec15 0:04 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 10777 0.0 0.3 76224 24752 ? Ss Dec16 0:03 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 16417 0.0 0.3 75752 24004 ? Ss Dec16 0:02 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 18510 0.0 0.2 75752 23760 ? Ss Dec16 0:01 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 21960 0.0 0.2 114608 22124 ? Ss Dec16 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 23450 0.0 0.2 114204 21328 ? Ss 00:30 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf jake 23672 0.0 0.0 6636 2552 pts/1 S+ 00:32 0:00 grep --color=auto shepherd In addition, any daemons managed by the zombie shepherds also persist! I'm experiencing this on both of my Guix System machines. One is running GDM and XFCE. The other is running GDM and CWM. Please let me know if I can provide more information. Thanks Jake --000000000000d38909062963ec7d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi

I think I'm experienc= ing a bug in Shepherd since version 1.0.=C2=A0
Whenever I log out= and log back in again, my user shepherd from the previous login session is= still present, and a new user shepherd spawns for the current login sessio= n.
So relogging N times results in N+1 user shepherds.
=
For example, I have relogged 5 times since I last rebooted:<= /div>

$ herd status root
Status of root:
=C2=A0 It is running since 00:30:02 (10 minutes ag= o).
=C2=A0 Main PID: 23450
=C2=A0 Command: /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppw= bkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c= 7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /g= nu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
...

$ pgrep shepherd
1
989110777
16417
18510
21960
23450

$=C2=A0 ps aux | grep shepherd
root =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1 =C2=A00.0 =C2= =A00.9 222872 74456 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sl =C2=A0 Dec15 =C2=A0 0:0= 8 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-au= to-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/s= hepherd --config /gnu/store/p7al8wd1inwk8f5di2q4llcpd64mjn5q-shepherd.conf<= br>jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A09891 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 =C2=A075816 23624 ? = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec15 =C2=A0 0:04 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlf= pv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/= nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --con= fig /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 10777 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.3 =C2=A076224 24752 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:03 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nr= f95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4= r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3= l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 16417 = =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.3 =C2=A075752 24004 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2= =A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:02 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0= .9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-= shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx7= 7xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 18510 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.= 2 =C2=A075752 23760 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:0= 1 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-au= to-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/s= hepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-sheph= erd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 21960 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 114608 22124 ? =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ss =C2=A0 Dec16 =C2=A0 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3= ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-guile-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0= w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7nd5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config= /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815mm3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 23450 =C2=A00.0 =C2=A00.2 114204 21328 ? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= Ss =C2=A0 00:30 =C2=A0 0:00 /gnu/store/mfkz7fvlfpv3ppwbkv0imb19nrf95akf-gui= le-3.0.9/bin/guile --no-auto-compile /gnu/store/nl0w5c7pxxdczqiv4r9iq44al7n= d5y5g-shepherd-1.0.0/bin/shepherd --silent --config /gnu/store/w3l6dmap815m= m3qzx77xdazky853adda-shepherd.conf
jake =C2=A0 =C2=A0 23672 =C2=A00.0 = =C2=A00.0 =C2=A0 6636 =C2=A02552 pts/1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0S+ =C2=A0 00:32 =C2=A0 = 0:00 grep --color=3Dauto shepherd

In addition,= any daemons managed by the zombie shepherds also persist!

I'm experiencing this on both of my Guix System machines. One = is running GDM and XFCE. The other is running GDM and CWM.=C2=A0
= Please let me know if I can provide more information.

<= div>Thanks
Jake
--000000000000d38909062963ec7d-- ------------=_1750081027-29917-5-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login Resent-From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 13:37:08 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 76998 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood , Danny Milosavljevic Received: via spool by 76998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B76998.175008102329895 (code B ref 76998); Mon, 16 Jun 2025 13:37:08 +0000 Received: (at 76998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2025 13:37:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44497 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRA1G-0007lv-77 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:37:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34524) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRA1A-0007k6-6s; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:36:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uRA13-00083y-7S; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 09:36:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=Vuh2o4WMmSNMywS+pCQHNfaPf8HIJJH1H7EylPQH09A=; b=hAUGGanGUuIfybAxJbnJ O8tMtn+cZboIOPxuS8frgEGJSvUS/UJWZgRwKQRjrZuj+6tgsKkKorUHDa5q0iGxB8dxk1OzErR5m fop96S59YM1AsUjCYTXv605rcr2ukLQmfX9frvX6GQdxGZXU9gec4ov61g+MFynyLLYdKFVc5AgTf kogvbq/VKDqPth+3kCFP97eadyuJXo+JDVKxEM1DzzslyeVYIFLJdXusS7NItDaLt1BMYFWf9FCzk i+JecFPlcd/yVFAg9CHiiqsHYxvKtnAuLpERtnOzciqLs5VvzZ+tZx9NlNI+BTUgEBP15132c/O5q bdCJcsf77Ua5CQ==; From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= In-Reply-To: <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> (Tomas Volf's message of "Sun, 15 Jun 2025 15:40:33 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.11; emacs 30.1 X-URL: https://people.bordeaux.inria.fr/lcourtes/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu X-Revolutionary-Date: Octidi 28 Prairial an 233 de la =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution,?= jour du Thym Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 15:28:54 +0200 Message-ID: <87qzzjddd5.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> writes: > Well, since you have mentioned the GnuPG as an example, we could just > mirror what it does, and what I have suggested before. > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > $ mkdir /tmp/xxx && cd /tmp/xxx > $ guix shell -u test -C findutils gnupg coreutils bash procps -- env HOME= =3D/tmp/xxx GNUPGHOME=3D/tmp/xxx bash > test@xx ~ [env]$ gpg-agent --daemon > gpg-agent[2]: directory '/tmp/xxx/private-keys-v1.d' created > gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 started > test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user > /run/user > /run/user/1000 > /run/user/1000/gnupg > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.ssh > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.browser > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent.extra > /run/user/1000/gnupg/d.j1yiifhhjrep9xunazyff54c/S.gpg-agent > test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux > USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND > test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash > test 3 0.0 0.0 5516 2400 ? Ss 13:32 0:00 gpg-agen= t --daemon > test 5 0.0 0.0 5224 3852 ? R+ 13:32 0:00 ps aux > test@xx ~ [env]$ rm -r /run/user/1000/gnupg > gpg-agent[3]: socket file has been removed - shutting down > gpg-agent[3]: gpg-agent (GnuPG) 2.4.7 stopped > test@xx ~ [env]$ find /run/user > /run/user > /run/user/1000 > test@xx ~ [env]$ ps aux > USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND > test 1 0.0 0.0 5136 4068 ? S 13:32 0:00 bash > test 8 0.0 0.0 5224 3776 ? R+ 13:33 0:00 ps aux > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > So my suggestion is that when the socket is deleted, the shepherd > process stops itself. Brilliant! The only downside is that it=E2=80=99ll be a bit of work (using inotify on = Linux and some other method elsewhere, presumably polling) but it definitely sounds like a good plan. I can look into it later it nobody beats me at it. Ludo=E2=80=99. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login Resent-From: Danny Milosavljevic Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 22:54:09 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 76998 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood Received: via spool by 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D76998.17501144452558 (code D ref 76998); Mon, 16 Jun 2025 22:54:09 +0000 Received: (at 76998-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2025 22:54:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49345 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRIiF-0000eM-7q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 18:54:04 -0400 Received: from cross.elm.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.212.46]:19459) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRIhz-0000bv-Vq; 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Mon, 16 Jun 2025 22:53:41 +0000 Received: from nova (84-115-226-251.cable.dynamic.surfer.at [84.115.226.251]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: dannym@friendly-machines.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a315.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bLlfV4wGCz6W; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 15:53:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=friendly-machines.com; s=dreamhost; t=1750114420; bh=lX+ptDQVB2TxB2CY4g+/+wdo2T9WeeO9Gg2U6msphJ0=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Content-Type; b=o+KSKKeV/jomSe/RjKx1XvIZBStF5Gad/2jwAXwcGGxiOl/ndkGysAKNCHJQJsgon soO4zHQwtM0V4RLZiZawWFvRM/Zf/6LtQ4bukiifUz0KWwLG9gtMpWUForGTDTd2bV ojchxYA0tiE541cKEuNTD4alo3K/1NoK3ov9tIq/wHJCA1A5j6opiXD20I0K/HVdWG Xo0xZeULZU90VJvRfgkxh2VV2GU+gB7sMVM2la3L7NGqonCa9FaxBxPUKYJ79yupj4 tM7J5vlZcXVa9QK4OZCr+7Z/4ZNBVBNQ+NGekwN6jQ+G92r2f17qEHGO+OLyQRFLFC Sl/7bxoapbOlQ== From: Danny Milosavljevic In-Reply-To: <87qzzjddd5.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?="'s message of "Mon, 16 Jun 2025 15:28:54 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> <87qzzjddd5.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.11; emacs 29.4 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 00:53:35 +0200 Message-ID: <871prjcn80.fsf@friendly-machines.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Ludo, First, I apologize for the tone back that day. Sorry! Hmm, I think using inotify is nice, but I don't think it's guaranteed to block the deletion of the socket (and thus the dismantling of the entire user scope) on a notification. That doesn't have to be bad--but it means that whatever stopping of user services shepherd does are in parallel to (and possibly later than!) the cleanup elogind and/or systemd does. elogind/systemd could totally (and probably do!) remove the floor from the underneath shepherd while it's still busy stopping services (and syncing user service stuff to disk etc). I don't see obvious actionable downsides, but some potential for stuff going wrong. Frankly, this is some really weird patchwork GNU/Linux is doing there. There's a reason systemd is the service manager integrating almost everything slightly (in different cooperating processes, though) and it's not just because they are weird. But I'd say for now we can totally do the inotify thing and handle problems as they arise. That said, patching elogind (for example just the herd stop root thing) would be easy enough too--but wouldn't help on other distros. Maybe we can future-proof shepherd a bit (if we don't already): If we wanted to change the mechanism later (to elogind, or to whatever) in the future it it could get hairy to decide who's responsible for stopping shepherd now. So we should definitely figure out if we are already stopping shepherd--and not begin stopping shepherd again while we are busy stopping shepherd :) As for gnupg, it's a lot easier to stop gnupg since it isn't responsible for stopping like half the machine in an orderly fashion, than it is shepherd. :) From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:50:17 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#76998: Guix Home leaves user shepherd on logout, starts new instance on login Resent-From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 08:16:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 76998 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Danny Milosavljevic Cc: 74912@debbugs.gnu.org, 76998@debbugs.gnu.org, Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz>, 76998-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Jake , Daniel Littlewood Received: via spool by 76998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B76998.175014812311782 (code B ref 76998); Tue, 17 Jun 2025 08:16:03 +0000 Received: (at 76998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jun 2025 08:15:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53091 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRRTV-000336-4t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 04:15:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39006) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1uRRTC-0002wm-Th; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 04:15:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1uRRT5-0006mm-K3; Tue, 17 Jun 2025 04:14:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=x0JY/erZ2eb2qOIucRTWiX5RmIMDK7RZ1TNsmvJq2uo=; b=HcIBcCWVssJFER9R2hYF cvv5QnBwdeWT2dnhaCMRkf05AGph2c79oKCRQ3qHRMhPgdesRFeScDatt07Qxe6i/6CcQWuTX3yKV 2a0PFDLFFFNbogJ5vL/EzXVUyxBTwWwxS+AuaDmH18G9WOg+6HvYoTK+RpZwzU1QpuFlCS9dCiPy1 YmDUt3ps4EycjY+A9CtKq5yvsRXbdnFfaQQ/4COWbykwxu7jeoORQEWeeZAQo2ishD9esWlaS15ne cSMsgkURvn6lwZvqsU+g2bNKrSA8BkEsUSPt4RSVx4GTDSqZqOg4O0HpFLXsHX4yGJJkcYjcxoeyN 5sY4keHGnFa9bQ==; From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= In-Reply-To: <871prjcn80.fsf@friendly-machines.com> (Danny Milosavljevic's message of "Tue, 17 Jun 2025 00:53:35 +0200") References: <87bjrqt81y.fsf@friendly-machines.com> <871prm3tgi.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87wm9dazse.fsf@wolfsden.cz> <87qzzjddd5.fsf@gnu.org> <871prjcn80.fsf@friendly-machines.com> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.11; emacs 30.1 X-URL: https://people.bordeaux.inria.fr/lcourtes/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu X-Revolutionary-Date: Nonidi 29 Prairial an 233 de la =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution,?= jour de la Pivoine Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 10:14:35 +0200 Message-ID: <878qlqbx90.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Danny, We can do both: 1. Have =E2=80=98shepherd=E2=80=99 stop itself if its socket is removed (= for user shepherd), or recreate the socket (for PID 1). 2. Change elogind to potentially allow user shepherd to outlive user sessions. >From the Shepherd=E2=80=99s viewpoint, #1 seems to be the safe thing to do. >From the Guix Home viewpoint, #2 would be nice. How does that sound? Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.