GNU bug report logs - #76812
vestigial elisp manual descriptions of obsolete variables mouse-wheel-up/down-event

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: JD Smith <jdtsmith <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: vestigial elisp manual descriptions of obsolete variables
 mouse-wheel-up/down-event 
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2025 08:48:58 -0500

The following paragraph in the elisp manual section "Miscellaneous System Events" describes blinding events based on the now obsolete variables `mouse-wheel-down-event', etc.:

>      The ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events are generated only on some
>      kinds of systems.  On other systems, other events like ‘mouse-4’
>      and ‘mouse-5’ are used instead.  Portable code should handle both
>      ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events as well as the events specified
>      in the variables ‘mouse-wheel-up-event’ and
>      ‘mouse-wheel-down-event’, defined in ‘mwheel.el’.  Beware that for
>      historical reasons the ‘mouse-wheel-_up_-event’ is the variable
>      that holds an event that should be handled similarly to
>      ‘wheel-_down_’ and vice versa.

Message #8 received at 76812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: JD Smith <jdtsmith <at> gmail.com>, 76812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Subject: Re: bug#76812: vestigial elisp manual descriptions of obsolete
 variables mouse-wheel-up/down-event
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2025 16:27:38 +0000

JD Smith <jdtsmith <at> gmail.com> writes:

> The following paragraph in the elisp manual section "Miscellaneous System Events" describes blinding events based on the now obsolete variables `mouse-wheel-down-event', etc.:
>
>>      The ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events are generated only on some
>>      kinds of systems.  On other systems, other events like ‘mouse-4’
>>      and ‘mouse-5’ are used instead.  Portable code should handle both
>>      ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events as well as the events specified
>>      in the variables ‘mouse-wheel-up-event’ and
>>      ‘mouse-wheel-down-event’, defined in ‘mwheel.el’.  Beware that for
>>      historical reasons the ‘mouse-wheel-_up_-event’ is the variable
>>      that holds an event that should be handled similarly to
>>      ‘wheel-_down_’ and vice versa.

Stefan, WDYT?

Message #11 received at 76812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 76812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, JD Smith <jdtsmith <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#76812: vestigial elisp manual descriptions of obsolete
 variables mouse-wheel-up/down-event
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 12:19:08 -0500

>> The following paragraph in the elisp manual section "Miscellaneous System
>> Events" describes blinding events based on the now obsolete variables
>> `mouse-wheel-down-event', etc.:
>>
>>>      The ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events are generated only on some
>>>      kinds of systems.  On other systems, other events like ‘mouse-4’
>>>      and ‘mouse-5’ are used instead.  Portable code should handle both
>>>      ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events as well as the events specified
>>>      in the variables ‘mouse-wheel-up-event’ and
>>>      ‘mouse-wheel-down-event’, defined in ‘mwheel.el’.  Beware that for
>>>      historical reasons the ‘mouse-wheel-_up_-event’ is the variable
>>>      that holds an event that should be handled similarly to
>>>      ‘wheel-_down_’ and vice versa.
>
> Stefan, WDYT?

To the extent that there are still cases where mouse-4/5 is used,
I guess we can keep that almost unchanged, except to adjust the wording
to indicate what is more normal.  E.g.:

    The ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events are generated on most systems.
    But in some unusual configurations, other events like ‘mouse-4’
    and ‘mouse-5’ may still be used instead.  Portable code that wants
    to accommodate those cases should handle both
    ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events as well as the events specified
    in the variables ‘mouse-wheel-up-event’ and
    ‘mouse-wheel-down-event’, defined in ‘mwheel.el’.  Beware that for
    historical reasons the ‘mouse-wheel-_up_-event’ is the variable
    that holds an event that should be handled similarly to
    ‘wheel-_down_’ and vice versa.

?


        Stefan

Message #14 received at 76812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: 76812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, JD Smith <jdtsmith <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#76812: vestigial elisp manual descriptions of obsolete
 variables mouse-wheel-up/down-event
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:22:53 +0000

Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>>> The following paragraph in the elisp manual section "Miscellaneous System
>>> Events" describes blinding events based on the now obsolete variables
>>> `mouse-wheel-down-event', etc.:
>>>
>>>>      The ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events are generated only on some
>>>>      kinds of systems.  On other systems, other events like ‘mouse-4’
>>>>      and ‘mouse-5’ are used instead.  Portable code should handle both
>>>>      ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events as well as the events specified
>>>>      in the variables ‘mouse-wheel-up-event’ and
>>>>      ‘mouse-wheel-down-event’, defined in ‘mwheel.el’.  Beware that for
>>>>      historical reasons the ‘mouse-wheel-_up_-event’ is the variable
>>>>      that holds an event that should be handled similarly to
>>>>      ‘wheel-_down_’ and vice versa.
>>
>> Stefan, WDYT?
>
> To the extent that there are still cases where mouse-4/5 is used,
> I guess we can keep that almost unchanged, except to adjust the wording
> to indicate what is more normal.  E.g.:
>
>     The ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events are generated on most systems.
>     But in some unusual configurations, other events like ‘mouse-4’
>     and ‘mouse-5’ may still be used instead.  Portable code that wants
>     to accommodate those cases should handle both
>     ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events as well as the events specified
>     in the variables ‘mouse-wheel-up-event’ and
>     ‘mouse-wheel-down-event’, defined in ‘mwheel.el’.  Beware that for
>     historical reasons the ‘mouse-wheel-_up_-event’ is the variable
>     that holds an event that should be handled similarly to
>     ‘wheel-_down_’ and vice versa.
>
> ?

Would it make sense we say something about what those "unusual
configurations" are?

For example, are they "user configurations", "old versions of Emacs",
"Haiku systems" (I'm just guessing here), or something else?

Message #17 received at 76812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: JD Smith <jdtsmith <at> gmail.com>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 76812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Subject: Re: bug#76812: vestigial elisp manual descriptions of obsolete
 variables mouse-wheel-up/down-event
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2025 15:45:40 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

> On Mar 7, 2025, at 12:22 PM, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca <mailto:monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>> writes:
> 
>>>> The following paragraph in the elisp manual section "Miscellaneous System
>>>> Events" describes blinding events based on the now obsolete variables
>>>> `mouse-wheel-down-event', etc.:
>>>> 
>>>>>     The ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events are generated only on some
>>>>>     kinds of systems.  On other systems, other events like ‘mouse-4’
>>>>>     and ‘mouse-5’ are used instead.  Portable code should handle both
>>>>>     ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events as well as the events specified
>>>>>     in the variables ‘mouse-wheel-up-event’ and
>>>>>     ‘mouse-wheel-down-event’, defined in ‘mwheel.el’.  Beware that for
>>>>>     historical reasons the ‘mouse-wheel-_up_-event’ is the variable
>>>>>     that holds an event that should be handled similarly to
>>>>>     ‘wheel-_down_’ and vice versa.
>>> 
>>> Stefan, WDYT?
>> 
>> To the extent that there are still cases where mouse-4/5 is used,
>> I guess we can keep that almost unchanged, except to adjust the wording
>> to indicate what is more normal.  E.g.:
>> 
>>    The ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events are generated on most systems.
>>    But in some unusual configurations, other events like ‘mouse-4’
>>    and ‘mouse-5’ may still be used instead.  Portable code that wants
>>    to accommodate those cases should handle both
>>    ‘wheel-up’ and ‘wheel-down’ events as well as the events specified
>>    in the variables ‘mouse-wheel-up-event’ and
>>    ‘mouse-wheel-down-event’, defined in ‘mwheel.el’.  Beware that for
>>    historical reasons the ‘mouse-wheel-_up_-event’ is the variable
>>    that holds an event that should be handled similarly to
>>    ‘wheel-_down_’ and vice versa.
>> 
>> ?
> 
> Would it make sense we say something about what those "unusual
> configurations" are?

I think so.  The current situation is sort of odd, in that the variables are both obsoleted (conveying: do not use in new code), and also apparently required for use in new portable code.  Does that suggest they were obsoleted prematurely, if they are still required on some systems?

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #20 received at 76812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: JD Smith <jdtsmith <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 76812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#76812: vestigial elisp manual descriptions of obsolete
 variables mouse-wheel-up/down-event
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2025 14:37:59 -0500

>> Would it make sense we say something about what those "unusual
>> configurations" are?

IIRC the only known cases where the `mouse-4/5` are still used instead
of `wheel-up/down` is when the users set `mouse-wheel-buttons` to nil,
presumably in order to work around a problem in a package which has not
yet been updated to pay attention to wheel-up/down.

Of course, there may also be packages out there doing things similar to
`xterm-mouse-mode` and which still generate `mouse-4/5` events, tho
I haven't heard of such packages.

> I think so.  The current situation is sort of odd, in that the variables are
> both obsoleted (conveying: do not use in new code), and also apparently
> required for use in new portable code.  Does that suggest they were
> obsoleted prematurely, if they are still required on some systems?

Yeah, I would be fine with just removing mention of those variables.


        Stefan

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