From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:32:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#76763: TUTORIAL: Add suggestion to Palm-Press CONTROL Key Resent-From: Prafulla Giri Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2025 10:55:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 76763 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 76763@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.174117204231000 (code B ref -1); Wed, 05 Mar 2025 10:55:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Mar 2025 10:54:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35765 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tpmO1-00083w-RY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 05:54:02 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:44422) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tpmNy-00083F-ST for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Wed, 05 Mar 2025 13:52:02 +0000 Received: (at 76763) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Mar 2025 13:51:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36209 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tpp9n-0005lK-Il for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 08:51:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59460) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tpp9l-0005l0-5k for 76763@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 08:51:29 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tpp9f-0007tY-GS; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 08:51:23 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=m66AZd1CSzTu0M464lAR9zxzLpgLHvoE052819cUhmk=; b=Pbu/3nAXnj8F 79GDsHzPJJizQHRMQw14AoBZmN0eZ5tta6Oqu1lDppZO3AJQk41NtSOi1EmTNjjwWi7RLZSO7ur9j UwzyJKdwg8ZjrxcqPYslfHTKDa93Iky8Etxlh4XX4FGNxTHrKaP598r12D/bVC4oR+LYwfRaRK6M7 fy1c70TszGS+lHp58ZvoE8MORBCAnivwOnbX+gVDpyP3aqrK85BvbEH+Sejq5H9onBEekn3+R0y/K 6ZYjUFYFNUJAF4fF+TYOU6o84AQ98UQSO1Qlh5zrJj4djRvUjtj7Hdq9RYxNUC+dR5Twpryg4TRsa RG0c9deMk5zlVyJuhtzluA==; Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2025 15:51:19 +0200 Message-Id: <86v7snoaaw.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2025 10:53:34 +0000 > From: Prafulla Giri via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" > > After having developed Emacs Pinkies as a novice, and on finding > https://mihaiolteanu.me/emacs-palm-press-the-ctrl-keys and switching to the Palm-Pressing technique for > the past couple of months, alleviating the issue, I am of the opinion that the tutorial introduction to Emacs > ought to warn of the RSI and suggest the preventative measure, and, therefore, submit a patch (attached), > accordingly, for your consideration. Thanks. I think this fits the Emacs FAQ better than it fits the tutorial. From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:32:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#76763: TUTORIAL: Add suggestion to Palm-Press CONTROL Key Resent-From: Prafulla Giri Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2025 14:39:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 76763 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 76763@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 76763-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B76763.174118550910444 (code B ref 76763); Wed, 05 Mar 2025 14:39:01 +0000 Received: (at 76763) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Mar 2025 14:38:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36346 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tpptF-0002iO-2D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 09:38:29 -0500 Received: from mail-10696.protonmail.ch ([79.135.106.96]:41049) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tpptA-0002i0-VF for 76763@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 09:38:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1741185497; x=1741444697; bh=l9tco1eYBWm/6ICAD84RxtY7BTPGgIhHdGH4mI7dYtc=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector:List-Unsubscribe:List-Unsubscribe-Post; b=U3wKc/kylMBoX2htYQ7fQF80ZXcs9hKvAprpYIe4/qSJbX+H5pWU1htitQHjxWfBH RZ6F5b0VnTJd+sfG/D1zIwbcfMgWu3qPGs6HKwv4Ok9BZxBcy3mOFx4TEnqr9Fui45 Pj8OAoIwl6ut+dsgZkFPHJThnY7tOFUY1enjnvIF8oDcO0XbJW1TqDkIkZCGNHl3lr 31W+97wcYNAohpil/ZZ6kdOJ0WgCV1MscrxFKm3/UfSeEfei4CHyjK4+QTeeHC8RF3 KSkOA0EnYLsmsvH/BXuH/GI1naDNSSsalh0D5LntbWOl6NH8SfFNYcW0Ye1dYudLLT EmUlhlLe5Gg/g== Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2025 14:38:15 +0000 From: Prafulla Giri Message-ID: <0ASvsMenr7sRAODjrJAPMB6kgkv-ppi-_bnflZediWbtqX7G-30AHyvDEOn7HnvDm2uoQZCJTQ1lCqFmSRFZy1iBmu4fIWxNDxBq024-R8U=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <86v7snoaaw.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86v7snoaaw.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 33818994:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 0e380c92fa81c5807332439caf4ee52b84bcd728 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Wednesday, March 5th, 2025 at 7:36 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrot= e: > I think this fits the Emacs FAQ better than it fits the tutorial. I think it is better if novices were shown the healthier way right from the= get-go: the tutorial. Discussions of RSI-prevention is often intensive: co= vering custom keybindings, split-keyboards, etc. much above what a novice c= an take in. In my own case, I'd heard of Emacs pinkie but didn't exactly kn= ow what it was till I woke up with them; and I'd deferred learning about er= gonomic emacs til I sufficiently mastered vanilla emacs. I really wish I ha= d someone tell me to palm-press to begin with. And what better place than t= he tutorial itself? I think we'll save upcoming generations starting on the= now-prevalent keyboard lots of strain if we only give them a heads up. 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Mon, 10 Mar 2025 14:08:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 10 Mar 2025 14:08:07 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 14:08:07 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1JrML66xkTDJTmFHam7e3ApjtSRIlTbeC-DByhaQNOjT-PZ7j5hhX9TPn7M Message-ID: Subject: control message for bug #76763 To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) severity 76763 wishlist quit From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:32:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#76763: TUTORIAL: Add suggestion to Palm-Press CONTROL Key Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2025 20:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 76763 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Prafulla Giri Cc: 76763@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 76763-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B76763.174198510819460 (code B ref 76763); 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charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Prafulla Giri writes: > On Wednesday, March 5th, 2025 at 7:36 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> I think this fits the Emacs FAQ better than it fits the tutorial. > > I think it is better if novices were shown the healthier way right from the > get-go: the tutorial. Discussions of RSI-prevention is often intensive: covering > custom keybindings, split-keyboards, etc. much above what a novice can take > in. In my own case, I'd heard of Emacs pinkie but didn't exactly know what it > was till I woke up with them; and I'd deferred learning about ergonomic emacs > til I sufficiently mastered vanilla emacs. I really wish I had someone tell me > to palm-press to begin with. And what better place than the tutorial itself? I > think we'll save upcoming generations starting on the now-prevalent keyboard > lots of strain if we only give them a heads up. It seems like Eli disagrees with adding this to the tutorial, so I would suggest adding this to the FAQ instead. I think the information as such is useful. Prafulla, would you like to suggest a patch that does that? From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:32:42 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#76763: TUTORIAL: Add suggestion to Palm-Press CONTROL Key Resent-From: Prafulla Giri Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2025 16:24:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 76763 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 76763@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 76763-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B76763.17420557922951 (code B ref 76763); Sat, 15 Mar 2025 16:24:02 +0000 Received: (at 76763) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Mar 2025 16:23:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43302 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ttUI3-0000lT-OH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Mar 2025 12:23:12 -0400 Received: from mail-10698.protonmail.ch ([79.135.106.98]:52391) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ttUI0-0000kp-Lt for 76763@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Mar 2025 12:23:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1742055781; x=1742314981; bh=pxlWqzTRyFWR3mhze4ehALfqeJr5t5uH5PM7EmsHs9g=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector:List-Unsubscribe:List-Unsubscribe-Post; b=XnnJBDGGm2ZCmqiljJYM8t5xvgXi2er1TVSDxDmAkog7L0yjjRXMEVsghYaIc320R q6RcSJ9nBD2nXzEPLswMR/LvlzSg/lc72WNBVV3sdoDuno2NwfOOxkLs9YWuw+sPj0 tAdSQj5jnQEVsr9yma2QHL83uYLd/WyX9SUqlpRbB0nfJ9XBoIgxX3PGePGaW5YaGS QXNbZoCh5tQTcXeiXa3fdOrQgleQRzgtlDusHnUb3SE86qm70ONw9cquKtlYvZ+1zS bxUaZKoltSkV+ihDnUI85XR8aJaJ1mY1P07TaCFRbXUx2c6Wc+MDBtz3rAKashkVnD sOSyh7ognpR9g== Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2025 16:22:56 +0000 From: Prafulla Giri Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <86v7snoaaw.fsf@gnu.org> <0ASvsMenr7sRAODjrJAPMB6kgkv-ppi-_bnflZediWbtqX7G-30AHyvDEOn7HnvDm2uoQZCJTQ1lCqFmSRFZy1iBmu4fIWxNDxBq024-R8U=@protonmail.com> Feedback-ID: 33818994:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: fa361a96928e025a29a50712b35c33316cbef1fb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Saturday, March 15th, 2025 at 2:29 AM, Stefan Kangas wrote: =20 > It seems like Eli disagrees with adding this to the tutorial, so I would > suggest adding this to the FAQ instead. I think the information as such > is useful. I really wish I could be more convincing. Perhaps somebody else can submit = a smaller change that could blend well with the tutorial? I am sure there w= ill be a lot of people who will just try sink-or-swim with Emacs, and end u= p learning it through the tutorial, never seeing the FAQ (I must admit that= I haven't seen the Emacs FAQ, yet). But I defer it to the maintainers. I did learn my lesson, albeit late. > Prafulla, would you like to suggest a patch that does that? Thank you. But I think I will pass on this, not having seen the FAQ yet. Bu= t may I make the suggestion that the blog post I linked to (https://mihaiol= teanu.me/emacs-palm-press-the-ctrl-keys) be put in there: there's a video o= f how palm-press works, and somehow seeing such a strange thing done well i= s quite motivating. Thank you all for your work on keeping Emacs going great. RMS probably is p= roud.