GNU bug report logs - #76723
30.1; M-x shortdoc seq should work

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 30.1; M-x shortdoc seq should work
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2025 13:25:58 -0800

--text follows this line--

*** Title
M-x shortdoc seq should work

*** Description
In looking for documentation for the seq library, I tried M-x shortdoc seq. To get it I must instead type "sequence" which is confusing and not discoverable.

*** Environment
Emacs 30.1

*** Steps to Reproduce
1. Enter M-x shortdoc seq
   
*** Expected Result
I get the shortdoc for the seq library.

*** Actual Result
I get the message "No such documentation group seq"



In GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 2, aarch64-apple-darwin24.3.0, NS
appkit-2575.40 Version 15.3.1 (Build 24D70)) of 2025-02-27 built on
bingsu.local
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2575
System Description:  macOS 15.3.1

Configured using:
'configure --prefix=/opt/local --disable-silent-rules --without-dbus
--without-gconf --without-libotf --without-m17n-flt --with-libgmp
--with-gnutls --with-xml2 --with-modules --with-sqlite3 --with-webp
--with-native-compilation=aot --infodir /opt/local/share/info/emacs
--disable-gc-mark-trace --with-ns --with-lcms2 --without-harfbuzz
--without-imagemagick --without-xaw3d --with-rsvg --with-tree-sitter
'CFLAGS=-pipe -Os -Wno-attributes
-isysroot/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX15.sdk -arch
arm64' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/opt/local/include
-isysroot/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX15.sdk'
'LDFLAGS=-L/opt/local/lib -Wl,-headerpad_max_install_names -Wl,-no_pie
-Wl,-rpath /opt/local/lib/gcc14 -Wl,-rpath /opt/local/lib
-Wl,-syslibroot,/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX15.sdk
-arch arm64''

Configured features:
ACL GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS JPEG LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY
KQUEUE NS PDUMPER PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM ZLIB

Important settings:
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Major mode: Org

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/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/oc-bibtex hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/oc-bibtex
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ob-python hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ob-python
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ob-makefile hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ob-makefile
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/org-duration hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/org-duration
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/org-agenda hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/org-agenda
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ob-dot hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ob-dot
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ob-js hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ob-js
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ox-publish hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ox-publish
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/org-inlinetask hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/org-inlinetask
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ob-org hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ob-org
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/org-keys hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/org-keys
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ob-core hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ob-core
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/org-compat hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/org-compat
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ol hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ol
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ox-odt hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ox-odt
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ol-info hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ol-info
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ob-plantuml hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ob-plantuml
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ob-eshell hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ob-eshell
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ox-ascii hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ox-ascii
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ox-koma-letter hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ox-koma-letter
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ob-maxima hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ob-maxima
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/org hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/org
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ol-bbdb hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ol-bbdb
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/org-macro hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/org-macro
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/org-fold hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/org-fold
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ob-sql hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ob-sql
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/org-attach hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/org-attach
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/org-cycle hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/org-cycle
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ob-processing hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ob-processing
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ox-texinfo hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ox-texinfo
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/org-crypt hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/org-crypt
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/org-footnote hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/org-footnote
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/org-element-ast hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/org-element-ast
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.24/ob-comint hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/ob-comint
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/tramp-androidsu hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/tramp-androidsu
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/tramp-archive hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/tramp-archive
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/tramp-smb hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/tramp-smb
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/tramp-fuse hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/tramp-fuse
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/tramp-uu hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/tramp-uu
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/tramp hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/tramp
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/tramp-adb hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/tramp-adb
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/tramp-loaddefs hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/tramp-loaddefs
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/tramp-message hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/tramp-message
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/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/trampver hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/trampver
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/tramp-cmds hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/tramp-cmds
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/tramp-integration hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/tramp-integration
/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/tramp-sudoedit hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/tramp-sudoedit
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/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/tramp-2.7.2.2/tramp-crypt hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/net/tramp-crypt
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Features:
(shadow mail-extr emacsbug timezone network-stream url-http url-gw nsm
url-cache url-auth hangul hanja-util quail dired-async cl-print
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casual-image-utils image-crop cc-calendar-mode casual-calendar
casual-calendar-settings casual-calendar-utils casual-calendar-constants
cc-symbol-overlay casual-symbol-overlay casual-symbol-overlay-settings
casual-symbol-overlay-version casual-symbol-overlay-utils symbol-overlay
cc-re-builder cc-calc-mode casual-calc casual-calc-symbolic
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casual-calc-stack calc-undo calc-yank casual-calc-trail
casual-calc-graphics casual-calc-fileio calc-vec casual-calc-vector
casual-calc-predicates casual-calc-units casual-calc-trigonometric
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cc-context-menu cc-wgrep-mode cc-edit-text-menu cc-find-menu
cc-insert-org-plot cc-region-operations-menu cc-transform-text-menu
cc-occur-mode cc-ediff-mode cc-info-mode cc-doc-mode-ux casual-info
casual-info-settings casual-info-utils casual-info-variables man
tramp-cache time-stamp shortdoc cc-repeat-mode repeat
cc-google-translate google-translate google-translate-default-ui
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cc-nxml-mode nxml-mode-expansions rng-nxml rng-valid nxml-mode
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org-faces org-entities noutline outline ob-emacs-lisp ob-core ob-eval
org-cycle org-table ol org-fold org-fold-core org-keys oc org-loaddefs
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spotlight counsel xref project dired dired-loaddefs swiper ivy ivy-faces
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ediff ediff-merg ediff-mult ediff-wind ediff-diff ediff-help ediff-init
ediff-util recentf tree-widget wid-edit yasnippet-snippets cl-extra
yasnippet wgrep grep compile text-property-search expand-region
text-mode-expansions er-basic-expansions thingatpt expand-region-core
expand-region-custom use-package use-package-ensure use-package-delight
use-package-diminish use-package-bind-key bind-key easy-mmode
use-package-core savehist saveplace tramp-sh tramp trampver
tramp-integration files-x tramp-message help-mode tramp-compat xdg shell
pcomplete comint ansi-osc parse-time iso8601 time-date format-spec
ansi-color tramp-loaddefs pixel-scroll cua-base ring autorevert
filenotify time delsel autoinsert cus-load finder-inf
auto-complete-autoloads calle24-autoloads citar-autoloads
company-autoloads csv-mode-autoloads diff-hl-autoloads doct-autoloads
ebib-autoloads edit-indirect-autoloads editorconfig-autoloads
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helm-bibtex-autoloads helm-swoop-autoloads helm-autoloads
helm-core-autoloads async-autoloads idlwave-autoloads iedit-autoloads
js2-mode-autoloads json-mode-autoloads jsonian-autoloads
keycast-autoloads know-your-http-well-autoloads ledger-mode-autoloads
magit-autoloads pcase magit-section-autoloads llama-autoloads
markdown-mode-autoloads modus-themes-autoloads neotree-autoloads
ob-restclient-autoloads ob-swiftui-autoloads org-ql-autoloads
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orgtbl-aggregate-autoloads osx-dictionary-autoloads ox-jira-autoloads
ox-pandoc-autoloads ox-gfm-autoloads org-autoloads
package-lint-autoloads paredit-autoloads parsebib-autoloads
password-store-menu-autoloads password-store-autoloads popup-autoloads
python-autoloads python-mode-autoloads restclient-autoloads
reveal-in-folder-autoloads f-autoloads scpaste-autoloads
htmlize-autoloads show-font-autoloads smart-mode-line-autoloads
rich-minority-autoloads snow-autoloads solarized-theme-autoloads
counsel-autoloads sqlite-mode-extras-autoloads sr-speedbar-autoloads
string-inflection-autoloads swift-mode-autoloads swiper-autoloads
ivy-autoloads symbol-overlay-autoloads toc-org-autoloads tramp-autoloads
rx transient-autoloads transpose-frame-autoloads treemacs-autoloads
posframe-autoloads avy-autoloads ts-autoloads dash-autoloads
verilog-mode-autoloads webpaste-autoloads request-autoloads
wfnames-autoloads which-key-autoloads window-tool-bar-autoloads info
with-editor-autoloads yaml-mode-autoloads yasnippet-snippets-autoloads
yasnippet-autoloads ztree-autoloads package browse-url url url-proxy
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auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs icons password-cache json
subr-x map byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile url-vars cl-loaddefs cl-lib
rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook
vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/ns-win ns-win
ucs-normalize mule-util term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image
regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode
prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu
timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core
term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic
indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese
tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek
romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese
composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook
jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs
theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties
overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap
hashtable-print-readable backquote threads kqueue cocoa ns lcms2
multi-tty make-network-process native-compile emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 2051237 853207) (symbols 48 73429 0) (strings 32 380743 33634)
(string-bytes 1 11232508) (vectors 16 156242) (vector-slots 8 2650729 403094)
(floats 8 1585 21028) (intervals 56 49125 12363) (buffers 992 116))


—
Charles Y. Choi, Ph.D.
kickingvegas <at> gmail.com

Message #10 received at 76723 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 76723 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76723: 30.1; M-x shortdoc seq should work
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 09:22:30 +0530

[திங்கள் மார்ச் 03, 2025] Charles Choi wrote:

> --text follows this line--
>
> *** Title
> M-x shortdoc seq should work
>
> *** Description
> In looking for documentation for the seq library, I tried M-x shortdoc seq. To get it I must instead type "sequence" which is confusing and not discoverable.
>
> *** Environment
> Emacs 30.1
>
> *** Steps to Reproduce
> 1. Enter M-x shortdoc seq
>    
> *** Expected Result
> I get the shortdoc for the seq library.
>
> *** Actual Result
> I get the message "No such documentation group seq"

Can you try the patch below?

diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/shortdoc.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/shortdoc.el
index cc9971b232f..6f7d61ac929 100644
--- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/shortdoc.el
+++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/shortdoc.el
@@ -1602,7 +1602,8 @@ shortdoc-display-group
 If FUNCTION is non-nil, place point on the entry for FUNCTION (if any).
 If SAME-WINDOW, don't pop to a new window."
   (interactive (list (completing-read "Show summary for functions in: "
-                                      (mapcar #'car shortdoc--groups))))
+                                      (mapcar #'car shortdoc--groups)
+                                      nil t)))
   (when (stringp group)
     (setq group (intern group)))
   (unless (assq group shortdoc--groups)

Message #15 received at 76723 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 76723 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76723: 30.1; M-x shortdoc seq should work
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 15:56:31 +0200

> From: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2025 13:25:58 -0800
> 
> *** Title
> M-x shortdoc seq should work
> 
> *** Description
> In looking for documentation for the seq library, I tried M-x shortdoc seq. To get it I must instead type "sequence" which is confusing and not discoverable.

Why did you expect Emacs to have a group named "seq"?  Documentation
groups are not package names, they are a separate set of symbols that
define relatively high-level groups of objects, such as "strings"

> *** Steps to Reproduce
> 1. Enter M-x shortdoc seq

When you type "M-x shortdoc RET", Emacs prompts you for the group.
Type '?', and Emacs will pop up a buffer with the list of known
groups.  Select one of them if you want meaningful results.

> *** Actual Result
> I get the message "No such documentation group seq"

I think this is by design.

Message #18 received at 76723 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 76723 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76723: 30.1; M-x shortdoc seq should work
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 20:30:27 +0200

[Please use Reply All to relay, to keep the bug tracker CC'ed.]

> From: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2025 09:44:40 -0800
> 
> Eli- 
> 
> Consider the use case where a relatively novice user does not know of the internal taxonomy of information organized within Emacs. Such a user would care little about knowing a priori what a documentation group is. However, they would know what a package name is as they are trying to learn how to use it. Such was the case for me when I was trying to understand the seq package.
> 
> I expected to be able to find documentation about seq via the command "M-x shortdoc seq”. I was unpleasantly surprised that I had to use the term “sequence” to get it. 
> 
> While I understand better now that shortdoc was intended for only documentation groups, I think enhancing shortdoc to handle package names is not unreasonable.
> 
> Upon reflection, I naively expected shortdoc to have an unstructured search interface. It is clear to me now that shortdoc does not do this, but consider the collective gain for the Emacs community if it did.
> 
> 
> Regards -
> 
> Charles
> 
> 
> 
> > On Mar 4, 2025, at 5:56 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> > 
> > Why did you expect Emacs to have a group named "seq"?  Documentation
> > groups are not package names, they are a separate set of symbols that
> > define relatively high-level groups of objects, such as “strings"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Message #21 received at 76723 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>
To: 76723 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76723: 30.1; M-x shortdoc seq should work
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2025 10:32:18 -0800

Eli- 

Consider the use case where a relatively novice user does not know of the internal taxonomy of information organized within Emacs. Such a user would care little about knowing a priori what a documentation group is. However, they would know what a package name is as they are trying to learn how to use it. Such was the case for me when I was trying to understand the seq package.

I expected to be able to find documentation about seq via the command "M-x shortdoc seq”. I was unpleasantly surprised that I had to use the term “sequence” to get it. 

While I understand better now that shortdoc was intended for only documentation groups, I think enhancing shortdoc to handle package names is not unreasonable.

Upon reflection, I naively expected shortdoc to have an unstructured search interface. It is clear to me now that shortdoc does not do this, but consider the collective gain for the Emacs community if it did.


Regards -

Charles

—
Charles Y. Choi, Ph.D.
kickingvegas <at> gmail.com

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