GNU bug report logs - #76596
30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 12:06:14 -0800

**** Title
dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations.

**** Description

Setting dired-movement-style to a non-nil value prevents moving the point to 

**** Environment
GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 2, aarch64-apple-darwin24.3.0, NS appkit-2575.40 Version 15.3.1 (Build 24D70)) of 2025-02-25
i--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

**** Steps to Reproduce
1. Open Dired on a directory with sub-directories.
2. Open subdir in Dired.
3. M-x customize-variable dired-movement-style
4. Set dired-movement-style value to "Cycle through non-empty lines"
5. Navigate point via n, p, C-p, C-n to subdir


**** Expected Result
Point should land on subdir.

**** Actual Result
Point avoids subdir, preventing running operations on it such as removing it (C-u k).




In GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 2, aarch64-apple-darwin24.3.0, NS
appkit-2575.40 Version 15.3.1 (Build 24D70)) of 2025-02-25 built on
bingsu.local
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2575
System Description:  macOS 15.3.1

Configured using:
'configure --prefix=/opt/local --disable-silent-rules --without-dbus
--without-gconf --without-libotf --without-m17n-flt --with-libgmp
--with-gnutls --with-xml2 --with-modules --with-sqlite3 --with-webp
--with-native-compilation=aot --infodir /opt/local/share/info/emacs
--disable-gc-mark-trace --with-ns --with-lcms2 --without-harfbuzz
--without-imagemagick --without-xaw3d --with-rsvg --with-tree-sitter
'CFLAGS=-pipe -Os -Wno-attributes
-isysroot/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX15.sdk -arch
arm64' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/opt/local/include
-isysroot/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX15.sdk'
'LDFLAGS=-L/opt/local/lib -Wl,-headerpad_max_install_names -Wl,-no_pie
-Wl,-rpath /opt/local/lib/gcc14 -Wl,-rpath /opt/local/lib
-Wl,-syslibroot,/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX15.sdk
-arch arm64''

Configured features:
ACL GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS JPEG LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY
KQUEUE NS PDUMPER PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Org

Minor modes in effect:
  windmove-mode: t
  dired-async-mode: t
  org-indent-mode: t
  csv-field-index-mode: t
  global-git-commit-mode: t
  magit-auto-revert-mode: t
  treemacs-filewatch-mode: t
  treemacs-follow-mode: t
  treemacs-git-mode: t
  treemacs-fringe-indicator-mode: t
  global-diff-hl-mode: t
  diff-hl-mode: t
  repeat-mode: t
  buffer-face-mode: t
  org-superstar-mode: t
  server-mode: t
  flyspell-mode: t
  company-mode: t
  electric-pair-mode: t
  recentf-mode: t
  yas-global-mode: t
  yas-minor-mode: t
  override-global-mode: t
  savehist-mode: t
  save-place-mode: t
  pixel-scroll-precision-mode: t
  global-auto-revert-mode: t
  display-time-mode: t
  delete-selection-mode: t
  auto-insert-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  prettify-symbols-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  context-menu-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  minibuffer-regexp-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  visual-line-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
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/Users/cchoi/.config/emacs/elpa/org-9.7.23/oc hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/org/oc
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Features:
(shadow mail-extr emacsbug hippie-exp elfeed-link keycast cus-start
emacs-news-mode org-goto windmove scroll-lock help-fns ...)

Memory information:
((conses 16 2115083 235089) (symbols 48 74485 2) (strings 32 375561 21084)
(string-bytes 1 11276924) (vectors 16 161157) (vector-slots 8 2658645 247053)
(floats 8 1594 19970) (intervals 56 57107 4124) (buffers 992 128))

—
Charles Y. Choi, Ph.D.
kickingvegas <at> gmail.com

Message #8 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>, Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1;
 dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 09:53:01 +0200

> From: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 12:06:14 -0800
> 
> 
> **** Title
> dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations.
> 
> **** Description
> 
> Setting dired-movement-style to a non-nil value prevents moving the point to 
> 
> **** Environment
> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 2, aarch64-apple-darwin24.3.0, NS appkit-2575.40 Version 15.3.1 (Build 24D70)) of 2025-02-25
> i--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
> 
> **** Steps to Reproduce
> 1. Open Dired on a directory with sub-directories.
> 2. Open subdir in Dired.
> 3. M-x customize-variable dired-movement-style
> 4. Set dired-movement-style value to "Cycle through non-empty lines"
> 5. Navigate point via n, p, C-p, C-n to subdir
> 
> 
> **** Expected Result
> Point should land on subdir.
> 
> **** Actual Result
> Point avoids subdir, preventing running operations on it such as removing it (C-u k).

Juri, this seems to be due to your changes in commit 29d42d9158ae:
dired-between-files returns non-nil when on a subdirectory line, so
Dired thinks it's an empty line.

Charles, does the patch below give good results?

Juri, do you agree with the patch?  It should go to the release
branch.

diff --git a/lisp/dired.el b/lisp/dired.el
index 90d944c..17c8ba5 100644
--- a/lisp/dired.el
+++ b/lisp/dired.el
@@ -2888,15 +2888,19 @@ dired--move-to-next-line
           (setq wrapped t))
          ;; `bounded': go back to the last non-empty line.
          (dired-movement-style ; Either 'bounded or anything else non-nil.
-          (while (and (dired-between-files) (not (zerop arg)))
+          (while (and (dired-between-files)
+                      (not (dired-get-subdir))
+                      (not (zerop arg)))
             (funcall jumpfun (- moving-down))
             ;; Point not moving means infinite loop.
             (if (= old-position (point))
                 (setq arg 0)
               (setq old-position (point))))
           ;; Encountered a boundary, so let's stop movement.
-          (setq arg (if (dired-between-files) 0 moving-down)))))
-      (unless (dired-between-files)
+          (setq arg (if (and (dired-between-files)
+                             (not (dired-get-subdir)))
+                        0 moving-down)))))
+      (unless (and (dired-between-files) (not (dired-get-subdir)))
         ;; Has moved to a non-empty line.  This movement does
         ;; make sense.
         (cl-decf arg moving-down))

Message #11 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 19:52:05 +0200

>> **** Expected Result
>> Point should land on subdir.
>> 
>> **** Actual Result
>> Point avoids subdir, preventing running operations on it such as removing it (C-u k).
>
> Juri, this seems to be due to your changes in commit 29d42d9158ae:
> dired-between-files returns non-nil when on a subdirectory line, so
> Dired thinks it's an empty line.
>
> Charles, does the patch below give good results?
>
> Juri, do you agree with the patch?  It should go to the release
> branch.

I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n, since there are already
special commands to visit subdir lines with C-M-n, C-M-p and M-G.

Message #14 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>
To: 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 10:03:53 -0800

Juri -

The notion of navigation only by type is I think too restrictive, particularly for dired-next-line and dired-previous-line.

My expectation is that those two commands should also work on subdirs, and I don't think I'm alone in thinking this.


Charles

—
Charles Y. Choi, Ph.D.
kickingvegas <at> gmail.com





> On Feb 27, 2025, at 9:52 AM, Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
> It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
> filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n, since there are already
> special commands to visit subdir lines with C-M-n, C-M-p and M-G.

Message #17 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 10:29:04 -0800

Eli - 

Thanks much for the response. I’ve manually applied the patch to my local dired.el and have verified that the expected behavior for dired-next-line and dired-previous-line to move the point on a subdir works for all values of dired-movement-style.


All my best - 

Charles

—
Charles Y. Choi, Ph.D.
kickingvegas <at> gmail.com





> On Feb 26, 2025, at 11:53 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> 
>> From: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>
>> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 12:06:14 -0800
>> 
>> 
>> **** Title
>> dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations.
>> 
>> **** Description
>> 
>> Setting dired-movement-style to a non-nil value prevents moving the point to 
>> 
>> **** Environment
>> GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 2, aarch64-apple-darwin24.3.0, NS appkit-2575.40 Version 15.3.1 (Build 24D70)) of 2025-02-25
>> i--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>> 
>> **** Steps to Reproduce
>> 1. Open Dired on a directory with sub-directories.
>> 2. Open subdir in Dired.
>> 3. M-x customize-variable dired-movement-style
>> 4. Set dired-movement-style value to "Cycle through non-empty lines"
>> 5. Navigate point via n, p, C-p, C-n to subdir
>> 
>> 
>> **** Expected Result
>> Point should land on subdir.
>> 
>> **** Actual Result
>> Point avoids subdir, preventing running operations on it such as removing it (C-u k).
> 
> Juri, this seems to be due to your changes in commit 29d42d9158ae:
> dired-between-files returns non-nil when on a subdirectory line, so
> Dired thinks it's an empty line.
> 
> Charles, does the patch below give good results?
> 
> Juri, do you agree with the patch?  It should go to the release
> branch.
> 
> diff --git a/lisp/dired.el b/lisp/dired.el
> index 90d944c..17c8ba5 100644
> --- a/lisp/dired.el
> +++ b/lisp/dired.el
> @@ -2888,15 +2888,19 @@ dired--move-to-next-line
>           (setq wrapped t))
>          ;; `bounded': go back to the last non-empty line.
>          (dired-movement-style ; Either 'bounded or anything else non-nil.
> -          (while (and (dired-between-files) (not (zerop arg)))
> +          (while (and (dired-between-files)
> +                      (not (dired-get-subdir))
> +                      (not (zerop arg)))
>             (funcall jumpfun (- moving-down))
>             ;; Point not moving means infinite loop.
>             (if (= old-position (point))
>                 (setq arg 0)
>               (setq old-position (point))))
>           ;; Encountered a boundary, so let's stop movement.
> -          (setq arg (if (dired-between-files) 0 moving-down)))))
> -      (unless (dired-between-files)
> +          (setq arg (if (and (dired-between-files)
> +                             (not (dired-get-subdir)))
> +                        0 moving-down)))))
> +      (unless (and (dired-between-files) (not (dired-get-subdir)))
>         ;; Has moved to a non-empty line.  This movement does
>         ;; make sense.
>         (cl-decf arg moving-down))

Message #20 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 21:48:25 +0200

> From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
> Cc: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>,  76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 19:52:05 +0200
> 
> >> **** Expected Result
> >> Point should land on subdir.
> >> 
> >> **** Actual Result
> >> Point avoids subdir, preventing running operations on it such as removing it (C-u k).
> >
> > Juri, this seems to be due to your changes in commit 29d42d9158ae:
> > dired-between-files returns non-nil when on a subdirectory line, so
> > Dired thinks it's an empty line.
> >
> > Charles, does the patch below give good results?
> >
> > Juri, do you agree with the patch?  It should go to the release
> > branch.
> 
> I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
> It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
> filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n,

I initially thought about that, but (a) the documentation says
something else, and (b) the original implementation, before your
changes mentioned above, indeed skipped only empty lines, not any
lines that don't show a file name.  So I changed my mind about that.

Message #25 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 09:12:58 +0200

>> I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
>> It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
>> filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n,
>
> I initially thought about that, but (a) the documentation says
> something else, and (b) the original implementation, before your
> changes mentioned above, indeed skipped only empty lines, not any
> lines that don't show a file name.  So I changed my mind about that.

Maybe this preference should be defined by the option?
Or by a new value of the existing option?

Message #28 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 16:57:49 +0200

> From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
> Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com,  76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 09:12:58 +0200
> 
> >> I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
> >> It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
> >> filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n,
> >
> > I initially thought about that, but (a) the documentation says
> > something else, and (b) the original implementation, before your
> > changes mentioned above, indeed skipped only empty lines, not any
> > lines that don't show a file name.  So I changed my mind about that.
> 
> Maybe this preference should be defined by the option?
> Or by a new value of the existing option?

Yes, additional value(s) of the option would be good if we want to
have both behaviors.

Are you okay with me installing my patch, and then you working on
adding the new value(s)?

Message #31 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2025 09:13:03 -0800

Eli - 


It is not clear to me the value of having an option to prevent navigating to subdirs to reproduce the behavior shipped in 30.1. Why enforce two separate commands of navigation based on type? To me, subdir navigation is a subset of line navigation where line navigation moves the point to any non-blank line, and subdir navigation only applies to subdirs.

If it is insisted that enforcing separate commands for type navigation (file/directory, subdir) be supported, then please do _not_ make this option the default for dired-movement-style. I still consider such an option to be a user interface mistake.

Respectfully -

Charles

—
Charles Y. Choi, Ph.D.
kickingvegas <at> gmail.com





> On Mar 4, 2025, at 6:57 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> Yes, additional value(s) of the option would be good if we want to
> have both behaviors.
> 
> Are you okay with me installing my patch, and then you working on
> adding the new value(s)?

Message #34 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: "76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>,
 Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor
 subdir operations
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2025 19:38:02 +0000

> It is not clear to me the value of having an option to prevent navigating
> to subdirs to reproduce the behavior shipped in 30.1. Why enforce two
> separate commands of navigation based on type? To me, subdir navigation is
> a subset of line navigation where line navigation moves the point to any
> non-blank line, and subdir navigation only applies to subdirs.
> 
> If it is insisted that enforcing separate commands for type navigation
> (file/directory, subdir) be supported, then please do _not_ make this
> option the default for dired-movement-style. I still consider such an
> option to be a user interface mistake.

+1, for not preventing navigation to subdirs.

I even see no particular value in skipping
blank lines!

The only value-added that I can see by the
"movement-style" feature is the `cycle' value
(which is the wrong name, BTW - should be
`wrap', as in "wrap around").

And wrapping around is something I added to 
dired+.el (and suggested for vanilla Emacs)
as an option (`diredp-wrap-around-flag') back
in 2013.  And it defaults to `t', because you
usually do want to wrap around.

And in Dired+ that option also affects other
movements:

* to the (ARGth) next/prev dir line (`>', `<')
* to the (ARGth) next/prev inserted listing
  (`C-M-n', `C-M-p')

Why the option is called "movement style" is
unclear.  And why does the Boolean choice of
skipping blank lines not apply for cycling?

`bounded': skip blank lines and don't wrap
`cycle'  : skip blank lines and wrap
nil      : don't skip blank lines and don't wrap

What's missing is "don't skip but wrap".
And that's maybe the most useful possibility.
(It's the default behavior for Dired+.)

If you really wanted to provide an option to
skip blank lines, that should have been a
Boolean, and separate from another Boolean
option to wrap around (misnomer "cycle").

Please tell me why cycling doesn't logically
apply to `C-M-n', `C-M-p', `>', and `<'.

Message #37 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: [External] : bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor
 subdir operations
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 21:49:33 +0200

> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> CC: "76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>,
>         Juri Linkov
> 	<juri <at> linkov.net>
> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2025 19:38:02 +0000
> 
> > It is not clear to me the value of having an option to prevent navigating
> > to subdirs to reproduce the behavior shipped in 30.1. Why enforce two
> > separate commands of navigation based on type? To me, subdir navigation is
> > a subset of line navigation where line navigation moves the point to any
> > non-blank line, and subdir navigation only applies to subdirs.
> > 
> > If it is insisted that enforcing separate commands for type navigation
> > (file/directory, subdir) be supported, then please do _not_ make this
> > option the default for dired-movement-style. I still consider such an
> > option to be a user interface mistake.
> 
> +1, for not preventing navigation to subdirs.
> 
> I even see no particular value in skipping
> blank lines!

This is all a tempest in a teapot.  We are discussing opt-in behavior,
so it should only matter to people who'd want to opt in.  People who
don't like these optional behaviors should not bother.

Message #40 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: juri <at> linkov.net
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1;
 dired-movement-style does not honor subdir operations
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2025 12:02:16 +0200

Ping! Juri, could you please answer my question below?

> Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 16:57:49 +0200
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
> 
> > From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
> > Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com,  76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2025 09:12:58 +0200
> > 
> > >> I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
> > >> It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
> > >> filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n,
> > >
> > > I initially thought about that, but (a) the documentation says
> > > something else, and (b) the original implementation, before your
> > > changes mentioned above, indeed skipped only empty lines, not any
> > > lines that don't show a file name.  So I changed my mind about that.
> > 
> > Maybe this preference should be defined by the option?
> > Or by a new value of the existing option?
> 
> Yes, additional value(s) of the option would be good if we want to
> have both behaviors.
> 
> Are you okay with me installing my patch, and then you working on
> adding the new value(s)?
> 
> 
> 
> 

Message #43 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 20:33:02 +0200

> Ping! Juri, could you please answer my question below?
>
>> > >> I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
>> > >> It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
>> > >> filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n,
>> > >
>> > > I initially thought about that, but (a) the documentation says
>> > > something else, and (b) the original implementation, before your
>> > > changes mentioned above, indeed skipped only empty lines, not any
>> > > lines that don't show a file name.  So I changed my mind about that.
>> > 
>> > Maybe this preference should be defined by the option?
>> > Or by a new value of the existing option?
>> 
>> Yes, additional value(s) of the option would be good if we want to
>> have both behaviors.
>> 
>> Are you okay with me installing my patch, and then you working on
>> adding the new value(s)?

I guess this is okay, since then later we could just add a condition
that uses the new value.

Message #46 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 12:36:08 +0200

> From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
> Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com,  76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 20:33:02 +0200
> 
> > Ping! Juri, could you please answer my question below?
> >
> >> > >> I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
> >> > >> It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
> >> > >> filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n,
> >> > >
> >> > > I initially thought about that, but (a) the documentation says
> >> > > something else, and (b) the original implementation, before your
> >> > > changes mentioned above, indeed skipped only empty lines, not any
> >> > > lines that don't show a file name.  So I changed my mind about that.
> >> > 
> >> > Maybe this preference should be defined by the option?
> >> > Or by a new value of the existing option?
> >> 
> >> Yes, additional value(s) of the option would be good if we want to
> >> have both behaviors.
> >> 
> >> Are you okay with me installing my patch, and then you working on
> >> adding the new value(s)?
> 
> I guess this is okay, since then later we could just add a condition
> that uses the new value.

Thanks, done.

Let me know if you want to leave this bug open, or close it and file
another bug for the new values you wanted to add.

Message #49 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 20:02:16 +0200

>> >> > >> I'm not sure what is the behavior expected by most users?
>> >> > >> It seems the intention for this feature was to visit only
>> >> > >> filename lines with n, p, C-p, C-n,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I initially thought about that, but (a) the documentation says
>> >> > > something else, and (b) the original implementation, before your
>> >> > > changes mentioned above, indeed skipped only empty lines, not any
>> >> > > lines that don't show a file name.  So I changed my mind about that.
>> >> > 
>> >> > Maybe this preference should be defined by the option?
>> >> > Or by a new value of the existing option?
>> >> 
>> >> Yes, additional value(s) of the option would be good if we want to
>> >> have both behaviors.
>> >> 
>> >> Are you okay with me installing my patch, and then you working on
>> >> adding the new value(s)?
>> 
>> I guess this is okay, since then later we could just add a condition
>> that uses the new value.
>
> Thanks, done.
>
> Let me know if you want to leave this bug open, or close it and file
> another bug for the new values you wanted to add.

I'd like to add the new values under this bug report.

Current values are

  (const :tag "Cycle through non-empty lines" cycle)
  (const :tag "Stop on last/first non-empty line" bounded))

New values could be

  (const :tag "Cycle through file lines" cycle-files)
  (const :tag "Stop on last/first file line" bounded-files))

Message #52 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 21:30:31 +0200

> From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
> Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com,  76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 20:02:16 +0200
> 
> > Let me know if you want to leave this bug open, or close it and file
> > another bug for the new values you wanted to add.
> 
> I'd like to add the new values under this bug report.
> 
> Current values are
> 
>   (const :tag "Cycle through non-empty lines" cycle)
>   (const :tag "Stop on last/first non-empty line" bounded))
> 
> New values could be
> 
>   (const :tag "Cycle through file lines" cycle-files)
>   (const :tag "Stop on last/first file line" bounded-files))

Feel free.

Message #55 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>,
 "76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 20:22:59 +0200

> `bounded': skip blank lines and don't wrap
> `cycle'  : skip blank lines and wrap
> nil      : don't skip blank lines and don't wrap
>
> What's missing is "don't skip but wrap".
> And that's maybe the most useful possibility.
> (It's the default behavior for Dired+.)

I tried to add the value 'warp' that moves even to empty lines and wraps,
but it stops at the empty line at the end of the Dired buffer.
Why might anyone want this?

> Please tell me why cycling doesn't logically
> apply to `C-M-n', `C-M-p', `>', and `<'.

`>' and `<' are already cycling,
while `C-M-n' and `C-M-p' aren't.

Message #58 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 20:30:10 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

>> I'd like to add the new values under this bug report.
>> 
>> Current values are
>> 
>>   (const :tag "Cycle through non-empty lines" cycle)
>>   (const :tag "Stop on last/first non-empty line" bounded))
>> 
>> New values could be
>> 
>>   (const :tag "Cycle through file lines" cycle-files)
>>   (const :tag "Stop on last/first file line" bounded-files))
>
> Feel free.

So here is the patch:

[dired-movement-style-cycle-files.patch (text/x-diff, inline)]

diff --git a/lisp/dired.el b/lisp/dired.el
index c00ae0fde7d..f735747e991 100644
--- a/lisp/dired.el
+++ b/lisp/dired.el
@@ -518,10 +518,14 @@ dired-movement-style
               to the first/last visible line.
  * `bounded': don't move up/down if the current line is the
               first/last visible line.
+ * `cycle-files': like `cycle' but moves only over file lines.
+ * `bounded-files': like `bounded' but moves only over file lines.
 Any other non-nil value is treated as `bounded'."
   :type '(choice (const :tag "Move to any line" nil)
                  (const :tag "Cycle through non-empty lines" cycle)
-                 (const :tag "Stop on last/first non-empty line" bounded))
+                 (const :tag "Cycle through file lines" cycle-files)
+                 (const :tag "Stop on last/first non-empty line" bounded)
+                 (const :tag "Stop on last/first file line" bounded-files)))
   :group 'dired
   :version "30.1")
 
@@ -2925,7 +2929,7 @@ dired--move-to-next-line
         ;; but it still wants to move farther.
         (cond
          ;; `cycle': go to the other end.
-         ((eq dired-movement-style 'cycle)
+         ((memq dired-movement-style '(cycle cycle-files))
           ;; Argument not changing on the second wrap
           ;; means infinite loop with no files found.
           (if (and wrapped (eq old-arg arg))
@@ -2937,7 +2941,8 @@ dired--move-to-next-line
          ;; `bounded': go back to the last non-empty line.
          (dired-movement-style ; Either 'bounded or anything else non-nil.
           (while (and (dired-between-files)
-                      (not (dired-get-subdir))
+                      (or (eq dired-movement-style 'bounded-files)
+                          (not (dired-get-subdir)))
                       (not (zerop arg)))
             (funcall jumpfun (- moving-down))
             ;; Point not moving means infinite loop.
@@ -2946,9 +2951,12 @@ dired--move-to-next-line
               (setq old-position (point))))
           ;; Encountered a boundary, so let's stop movement.
           (setq arg (if (and (dired-between-files)
-                             (not (dired-get-subdir)))
+                             (or (eq dired-movement-style 'bounded-files)
+                                 (not (dired-get-subdir))))
                         0 moving-down)))))
-      (unless (and (dired-between-files) (not (dired-get-subdir)))
+      (unless (and (dired-between-files)
+                   (or (memq dired-movement-style '(cycle-files bounded-files))
+                       (not (dired-get-subdir))))
         ;; Has moved to a non-empty line.  This movement does
         ;; make sense.
         (decf arg moving-down))

Message #61 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>,
 "76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not
 honor subdir operations
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 23:55:15 +0000

> > `bounded': skip blank lines and don't wrap `cycle'  : skip blank lines
> > and wrap
> > nil      : don't skip blank lines and don't wrap
> >
> > What's missing is "don't skip but wrap".
> > And that's maybe the most useful possibility.
> > (It's the default behavior for Dired+.)
> 
> I tried to add the value 'warp' that moves even to empty lines and wraps, but
> it stops at the empty line at the end of the Dired buffer.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying or what you did.

If you mean that you try `n' and `p' (and the others I mentioned) after loading dired+.el then you should see cycling, not stopping (at all) at the empty line at the end of the Dired buffer. It wraps directly to the first file/dir listed in the buffer, under the main directory header line.

> Why might anyone want this?

Do you mean why would anyone want to stop at the blank line at the end, instead of wrapping? Dunno. I even wonder why anyone would want to not wrap - but some people apparently do. Maybe it helps with some keyboard macros?

I also don't care about skipping blank lines, personally. 

I do care about wrapping - for ALL of the navigation keys I mentioned. That's what's really needed, IMO. Not wrapping is an option, but IMO it's maybe not needed (I kept it as an option, to provide the vanilla Dired behavior). Likewise, as I say, I see no real need to skip blank lines. YMMV.

> > Please tell me why cycling doesn't logically apply to `C-M-n',
> > `C-M-p', `>', and `<'.
> 
> `>' and `<' are already cycling,
> while `C-M-n' and `C-M-p' aren't.

Why shouldn't they?

Message #64 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>,
 "76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not
 honor subdir operations
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 09:54:19 +0200

>> > `bounded': skip blank lines and don't wrap `cycle'  : skip blank lines
>> > and wrap
>> > nil      : don't skip blank lines and don't wrap
>> >
>> > What's missing is "don't skip but wrap".
>> > And that's maybe the most useful possibility.
>> > (It's the default behavior for Dired+.)
>> 
>> I tried to add the value 'warp' that moves even to empty lines and wraps, but
>> it stops at the empty line at the end of the Dired buffer.
>
> Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying or what you did.
>
> If you mean that you try `n' and `p' (and the others I mentioned) after
> loading dired+.el then you should see cycling, not stopping (at all) at the
> empty line at the end of the Dired buffer. It wraps directly to the first
> file/dir listed in the buffer, under the main directory header line.

So the empty line at the end of the buffer is skipped, ok.

>> Why might anyone want this?
>
> Do you mean why would anyone want to stop at the blank line at the
> end, instead of wrapping? Dunno. I even wonder why anyone would want
> to not wrap - but some people apparently do. Maybe it helps with some
> keyboard macros?
>
> I also don't care about skipping blank lines, personally. 
>
> I do care about wrapping - for ALL of the navigation keys
> I mentioned. That's what's really needed, IMO. Not wrapping is an option,
> but IMO it's maybe not needed (I kept it as an option, to provide the
> vanilla Dired behavior). Likewise, as I say, I see no real need to skip
> blank lines. YMMV.

Do you need such wrapping in other modes too, not only in Dired?

>> > Please tell me why cycling doesn't logically apply to `C-M-n',
>> > `C-M-p', `>', and `<'.
>> 
>> `>' and `<' are already cycling,
>> while `C-M-n' and `C-M-p' aren't.
>
> Why shouldn't they?

They could if someone will implement this.

Message #67 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 09:56:50 +0200

>>> I'd like to add the new values under this bug report.
>>> 
>>> Current values are
>>> 
>>>   (const :tag "Cycle through non-empty lines" cycle)
>>>   (const :tag "Stop on last/first non-empty line" bounded))
>>> 
>>> New values could be
>>> 
>>>   (const :tag "Cycle through file lines" cycle-files)
>>>   (const :tag "Stop on last/first file line" bounded-files))
>>
>> Feel free.
>
> So here is the patch:

Eli, this patch should go to emacs-30?

Message #70 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 10:45:57 +0200

> From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
> Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com,  76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 09:56:50 +0200
> 
> >>> I'd like to add the new values under this bug report.
> >>> 
> >>> Current values are
> >>> 
> >>>   (const :tag "Cycle through non-empty lines" cycle)
> >>>   (const :tag "Stop on last/first non-empty line" bounded))
> >>> 
> >>> New values could be
> >>> 
> >>>   (const :tag "Cycle through file lines" cycle-files)
> >>>   (const :tag "Stop on last/first file line" bounded-files))
> >>
> >> Feel free.
> >
> > So here is the patch:
> 
> Eli, this patch should go to emacs-30?

AFAIU, these are new features, no?  Why should they be in emacs-30?

Message #73 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Charles Choi <kickingvegas <at> gmail.com>,
 "76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not
 honor subdir operations
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 18:40:15 +0000

> > I do care about wrapping - for ALL of the navigation keys I mentioned.
> > That's what's really needed, IMO. Not wrapping is an option, but IMO
> > it's maybe not needed (I kept it as an option, to provide the vanilla
> > Dired behavior). Likewise, as I say, I see no real need to skip blank
> > lines. YMMV.
> 
> Do you need such wrapping in other modes too, not only in Dired?

Dunno what other places it would be helpful. 
But maybe other "listing" buffers (occur, buffer menu/ibuffer, bookmarks,...)?
Maybe tabulated-list buffers?

It should be optional, wherever it's added, IMO.

Isearch was probably the first place in Emacs to add wrapping. Unless I'm forgetting something else obvious.

> >> > Please tell me why cycling doesn't logically apply to `C-M-n',
> >> > `C-M-p', `>', and `<'.
> >>
> >> `>' and `<' are already cycling,
> >> while `C-M-n' and `C-M-p' aren't.
> >
> > Why shouldn't they?
> 
> They could if someone will implement this.

It's implemented in dired+.el. Feel free to take it or use it as inspiration for a different implementation.

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/dired%2.el

Message #76 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2025 20:39:59 +0200

>> >>> I'd like to add the new values under this bug report.
>> >>> 
>> >>> Current values are
>> >>> 
>> >>>   (const :tag "Cycle through non-empty lines" cycle)
>> >>>   (const :tag "Stop on last/first non-empty line" bounded))
>> >>> 
>> >>> New values could be
>> >>> 
>> >>>   (const :tag "Cycle through file lines" cycle-files)
>> >>>   (const :tag "Stop on last/first file line" bounded-files))
>> >>
>> >> Feel free.
>> >
>> > So here is the patch:
>> 
>> Eli, this patch should go to emacs-30?
>
> AFAIU, these are new features, no?  Why should they be in emacs-30?

Because users might prefer to get the old behavior back in emacs-30.

Message #79 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2025 21:38:26 +0200

> From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
> Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com,  76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2025 20:39:59 +0200
> 
> >> >>> I'd like to add the new values under this bug report.
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> Current values are
> >> >>> 
> >> >>>   (const :tag "Cycle through non-empty lines" cycle)
> >> >>>   (const :tag "Stop on last/first non-empty line" bounded))
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> New values could be
> >> >>> 
> >> >>>   (const :tag "Cycle through file lines" cycle-files)
> >> >>>   (const :tag "Stop on last/first file line" bounded-files))
> >> >>
> >> >> Feel free.
> >> >
> >> > So here is the patch:
> >> 
> >> Eli, this patch should go to emacs-30?
> >
> > AFAIU, these are new features, no?  Why should they be in emacs-30?
> 
> Because users might prefer to get the old behavior back in emacs-30.

OK, then emacs-30 it is.

Thanks.

Message #82 received at 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: kickingvegas <at> gmail.com, 76596 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76596: 30.1; dired-movement-style does not honor subdir
 operations
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2025 19:48:47 +0200

close 76596 30.1.50
thanks

>> >> >>> New values could be
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>>   (const :tag "Cycle through file lines" cycle-files)
>> >> >>>   (const :tag "Stop on last/first file line" bounded-files))
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Feel free.
>> >> >
>> >> > So here is the patch:
>> >> 
>> >> Eli, this patch should go to emacs-30?
>> >
>> > AFAIU, these are new features, no?  Why should they be in emacs-30?
>> 
>> Because users might prefer to get the old behavior back in emacs-30.
>
> OK, then emacs-30 it is.

So now pushed to emacs-30 and closed.

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