Subject: Re: Deliberation vs. voting (was: [GCD] Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg)

From: Vagrant Cascadian <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 2025 09:15:05 -0700

On 2025-05-13, Simon Tournier wrote:
> On Mon, 12 May 2025 at 09:43, Vagrant Cascadian <[email-masked]> wrote:
>> To my take on english "deliberation" is usually focused more on the
>> process of making a decision, though possibly to make it clear and
>> explicit, we could use "deliberation results" or "results of the
>> deliberation" ?
>
> In French, the main meaning of “délibération” [1] is “the act to
> scrutinize all the elements leading to a final decision”, i.e., it’s a
> process.
>
> Then by extension, “délibération” also means the final decision itself:
> the “délibération” (process) leads to some “délibération” (conclusion).
>
> 1: https://www.cnrtl.fr/lexicographie/d%C3%A9lib%C3%A9ration

Yeah, I think there is some difference in meaning here that could be
tripping some of us.

>>> So now I’m not so sure but I still find the term “vote” to be loaded
>>> (and not what GCD 001 uses anyway).
>>
>> I think that "vote" does tend to guide people towards other decision
>> making processes that are not really consensus building, if only for the
>> reason that many do not have much experience with anything other than
>> voting by majority rule... even if there are technically other meanings
>> for the word.
>
> For me, the main raison d’être of the “Deliberation Period” is to
> explicitly and concisely record the acceptance or the issues and
> concerns.
>
> If I read correctly, the meaning of “vote” is [2]: express your choice
> or opinion, especially by officially writing; the act of showing your
> choice or opinion; etc.
>
> Therefore, the term “vote” appears to me ambiguous here.  Somehow, yes
> one expresses their opinion in the “Deliberation Period”, but not really
> neither because they should only restate for the record their opinion
> already expressed during the “Discussion Period”.
>
> 2: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/vote

Yeah, I think you hit upon something here. At least as a native english
speaker, deliberation ~= discussion, so the distinction between
"Discussion period" and "Deliberation period" sound effectively the
same, even though obviously the process spelled out is significantly
different. "Deliberation" might have slightly more formal overtones. I
had a little unease with the original proposal wording, but it was not
clear to me until now...

"Deliberation" is simply a misleading word for that phase of the
process, at least for some english speakers.

>> I find it is more important to record the issues and concerns that lead
>> to blocking consensus (e.g. "I disapprove") than to record who blocked
>> consensus. It gives a checklist of what needs to be fixed if something
>> similar is proposed later...
>
> I agree! :-)
>
> Assuming we amend GCD #001 – we need a new GCD for amending accepted
> GCDs, BTW – WDYT about “Recording Period” instead of “Deliberation
> Period”?
>
> Somehow, I would propose to use “record” instead of “deliberation”.

Not in love with "Deliberation" -> "Recording" but would accept it as
better than the status quo. :)

As said earlier, I would use "Call for consensus" or maybe "Poll for
consensus" although "Poll" is often used as an informal non-binding
thing in various processes I have worked with, so that could be
confusing too.

I also like dark purple, but am not a fan of lighter shades.

live well,
  vagrant