GNU bug report logs - #76439
[PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in 'winner-mode' docstring

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 20:21:28 +0530

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Tags: patch

Attached patch suggests to use tab-bar-history-mode when using
tab-bar-mode instead.  winner-mode interacts quite badly with
tab-bar-mode and it took me sometime to discover tab-bar-history-mode
when I started using winner-mode initially.  Mentioning it in
winner-mode's would help its discoverability I hope.

In GNU Emacs 31.0.50 (build 32, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo
 version 1.18.2, Xaw scroll bars) of 2025-02-15 built on astatine
Repository revision: 167157fc210ae078e683c80dc650e6a2bb5a6050
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101015
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux trixie/sid

Configured using:
 'configure --with-sound=alsa --with-x-toolkit=lucid --without-xaw3d
 --without-gconf --without-libsystemd --with-cairo CFLAGS=-O2'

[0001-Specify-tab-bar-history-mode-in-winner-mode-docstrin.patch (text/patch, attachment)]

Message #8 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in 'winner-mode'
 docstring
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 19:07:49 +0200

> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 20:21:28 +0530
> 
> Attached patch suggests to use tab-bar-history-mode when using
> tab-bar-mode instead.  winner-mode interacts quite badly with
> tab-bar-mode and it took me sometime to discover tab-bar-history-mode
> when I started using winner-mode initially.  Mentioning it in
> winner-mode's would help its discoverability I hope.

Should we instead try to fix winner (and maybe also tab-bar-mode) to
avoid these problems?

In any case, if tab-bar-history-mode is better suited to winner, then
the reference you want to add should at least hint on why it is better
suited.

Thanks.

Message #11 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 22:48:42 +0530

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

[வியாழன் பிப்ரவரி 20, 2025] Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
>> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 20:21:28 +0530
>> 
>> Attached patch suggests to use tab-bar-history-mode when using
>> tab-bar-mode instead.  winner-mode interacts quite badly with
>> tab-bar-mode and it took me sometime to discover tab-bar-history-mode
>> when I started using winner-mode initially.  Mentioning it in
>> winner-mode's would help its discoverability I hope.
>
> Should we instead try to fix winner (and maybe also tab-bar-mode) to
> avoid these problems?

It would essentially involve writing tab-bar-history-mode anew to
certain extent AFAIU.  I wanted to head down this path until I realised
tab-bar-history-mode does everything winner while taking into account
tab-bar-mode.

> In any case, if tab-bar-history-mode is better suited to winner, then
> the reference you want to add should at least hint on why it is better
> suited.

How about the attached?

[0001-Specify-tab-bar-history-mode-in-winner-mode-docstrin.patch (text/x-diff, attachment)]

Message #14 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 19:17:35 +0200

> Attached patch suggests to use tab-bar-history-mode when using
> tab-bar-mode instead.  winner-mode interacts quite badly with
> tab-bar-mode and it took me sometime to discover tab-bar-history-mode
> when I started using winner-mode initially.  Mentioning it in
> winner-mode's would help its discoverability I hope.
>
> @@ -345,7 +345,10 @@ winner-mode
>  into windows) so that the changes can be \"undone\" using the
>  command `winner-undo'.  By default this one is bound to the key
>  sequence \\`C-c <left>'.  If you change your mind (while undoing),
> -you can press \\`C-c <right>' (calling `winner-redo')."
> +you can press \\`C-c <right>' (calling `winner-redo').
> +
> +If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider turning on `tab-bar-history-mode'
> +instead which provides tab-specific window configuration history."

Thanks, will push in a few days if no one has objections.

Message #17 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>, Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 19:30:32 +0200

> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
> Cc: 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 22:48:42 +0530
> 
> > Should we instead try to fix winner (and maybe also tab-bar-mode) to
> > avoid these problems?
> 
> It would essentially involve writing tab-bar-history-mode anew to
> certain extent AFAIU.

Maybe.  But let's first hear what Juri thinks about that.

> > In any case, if tab-bar-history-mode is better suited to winner, then
> > the reference you want to add should at least hint on why it is better
> > suited.
> 
> How about the attached?

Much better, thanks.

Perhaps also make some similar change in the doc string of
tab-bar-mode?

Message #20 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 23:11:21 +0530

[வியாழன் பிப்ரவரி 20, 2025] Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> > In any case, if tab-bar-history-mode is better suited to winner, then
>> > the reference you want to add should at least hint on why it is better
>> > suited.
>> 
>> How about the attached?
>
> Much better, thanks.
>
> Perhaps also make some similar change in the doc string of
> tab-bar-mode?

Would

    Use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead of `winner-mode' to obtain
    tab-specific window configuration history.

be fine?

Message #23 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 21:32:11 +0200

> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
> Cc: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>,  76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 23:11:21 +0530
> 
> [வியாழன் பிப்ரவரி 20, 2025] Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> > In any case, if tab-bar-history-mode is better suited to winner, then
> >> > the reference you want to add should at least hint on why it is better
> >> > suited.
> >> 
> >> How about the attached?
> >
> > Much better, thanks.
> >
> > Perhaps also make some similar change in the doc string of
> > tab-bar-mode?
> 
> Would
> 
>     Use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead of `winner-mode' to obtain
>     tab-specific window configuration history.
> 
> be fine?

I thought of something like

  If you intend to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
  to use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, which can replace both.

(assuming I understood what you wanted to say).

Message #26 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 08:21:14 +0530

[வியாழன் பிப்ரவரி 20, 2025] Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
>> Cc: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>,  76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 23:11:21 +0530
>> 
>> [வியாழன் பிப்ரவரி 20, 2025] Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> 
>> >> > In any case, if tab-bar-history-mode is better suited to winner, then
>> >> > the reference you want to add should at least hint on why it is better
>> >> > suited.
>> >> 
>> >> How about the attached?
>> >
>> > Much better, thanks.
>> >
>> > Perhaps also make some similar change in the doc string of
>> > tab-bar-mode?
>> 
>> Would
>> 
>>     Use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead of `winner-mode' to obtain
>>     tab-specific window configuration history.
>> 
>> be fine?
>
> I thought of something like
>
>   If you intend to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
>   to use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, which can replace both.
>
> (assuming I understood what you wanted to say).

The "can replace both" is a bit confusing as I am not sure what the
second item in "both" refers to.  What about

    If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
    to use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead which provides tab-specific
    window configuration history and is better behaved when
    `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.

?

Message #29 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:43:58 +0200

> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
> Cc: juri <at> linkov.net,  76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 08:21:14 +0530
> 
> [வியாழன் பிப்ரவரி 20, 2025] Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> Would
> >> 
> >>     Use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead of `winner-mode' to obtain
> >>     tab-specific window configuration history.
> >> 
> >> be fine?
> >
> > I thought of something like
> >
> >   If you intend to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
> >   to use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, which can replace both.
> >
> > (assuming I understood what you wanted to say).
> 
> The "can replace both" is a bit confusing as I am not sure what the
> second item in "both" refers to.  What about
> 
>     If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
>     to use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead which provides tab-specific
>     window configuration history and is better behaved when
>     `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
> 
> ?

SGTM, thanks.

Message #32 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 14:05:42 +0530

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

[வெள்ளி பிப்ரவரி 21, 2025] Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> The "can replace both" is a bit confusing as I am not sure what the
>> second item in "both" refers to.  What about
>> 
>>     If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
>>     to use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead which provides tab-specific
>>     window configuration history and is better behaved when
>>     `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
>> 
>> ?
>
> SGTM, thanks.

Thanks, updated patch attached.

[0001-Recommend-tab-bar-history-mode-over-winner-mode.patch (text/x-diff, attachment)]

Message #35 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:26:46 +0100

>>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:43:58 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> said:
    >> 
    >> If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
    >> to use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead which provides tab-specific
    >> window configuration history and is better behaved when
    >> `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
    >> 
    >> ?

    Eli> SGTM, thanks.

Grammar/gerund alert:

    If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
    using `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, which provides tab-specific
    window configuration history, and is better behaved when
    `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.

(Iʼd even be tempted to use ';' instead of the second ',', and replace
'which' with 'it')

Robert
-- 

Message #38 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>,
 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:41:23 +0100

On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:26:46 +0100 Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:43:58 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> said:
>     >> 
>     >> If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
>     >> to use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead which provides tab-specific
>     >> window configuration history and is better behaved when
>     >> `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
>     >> 
>     >> ?
>
>     Eli> SGTM, thanks.
>
> Grammar/gerund alert:
>
>     If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend

s/indent/intend/

>     using `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, which provides tab-specific
>     window configuration history, and is better behaved when
>     `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
>
> (Iʼd even be tempted to use ';' instead of the second ',', and replace
> 'which' with 'it')

Or "instead, since it provides", since it's a justification of the
recommendation.

Steve Berman

Message #41 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>,
 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:53:23 +0100

>>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:41:23 +0100, Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net> said:

    Stephen> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:26:46 +0100 Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com> wrote:
    >>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:43:58 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> said:
    >> >> 
    >> >> If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
    >> >> to use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead which provides tab-specific
    >> >> window configuration history and is better behaved when
    >> >> `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
    >> >> 
    >> >> ?
    >> 
    Eli> SGTM, thanks.
    >> 
    >> Grammar/gerund alert:
    >> 
    >> If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend

    Stephen> s/indent/intend/

The golden rule of grammar discussion is that there will be spelling
mistakes (and vice-versa) 😉

    >> using `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, which provides tab-specific
    >> window configuration history, and is better behaved when
    >> `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
    >> 
    >> (Iʼd even be tempted to use ';' instead of the second ',', and replace
    >> 'which' with 'it')

    Stephen> Or "instead, since it provides", since it's a justification of the
    Stephen> recommendation.

That works as well. Iʼm told that using ';' is falling out of favour,
since allegedly the youth of today donʼt understand it.

Robert
-- 

Message #44 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>,
 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 11:09:48 +0100

On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:53:23 +0100 Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:41:23 +0100, Stephen Berman
> <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net> said:
>
>     Stephen> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:26:46 +0100 Robert Pluim
>     Stephen> <rpluim <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>     >>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:43:58 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> said:
>     >> >> 
>     >> >> If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
>     >> >> to use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead which provides tab-specific
>     >> >> window configuration history and is better behaved when
>     >> >> `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
>     >> >> 
>     >> >> ?
>     >> 
>     Eli> SGTM, thanks.
>     >> 
>     >> Grammar/gerund alert:
>     >> 
>     >> If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
>
>     Stephen> s/indent/intend/
>
> The golden rule of grammar discussion is that there will be spelling
> mistakes (and vice-versa) 😉
>
>     >> using `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, which provides tab-specific
>     >> window configuration history, and is better behaved when
>     >> `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
>     >> 
>     >> (Iʼd even be tempted to use ';' instead of the second ',', and replace
>     >> 'which' with 'it')
>
>     Stephen> Or "instead, since it provides", since it's a justification of the
>     Stephen> recommendation.
>
> That works as well. Iʼm told that using ';' is falling out of favour,
> since allegedly the youth of today donʼt understand it.
>
> Robert

Not being a youth of today, I can neither confirm nor refute that;
however, I can believe it.

Steve Berman

Message #47 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>,
 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 15:46:47 +0530

[வெள்ளி பிப்ரவரி 21, 2025] Robert Pluim wrote:

>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:41:23 +0100, Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net> said:
>
>     Stephen> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:26:46 +0100 Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>     >>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:43:58 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> said:
>     >> >> 
>     >> >> If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
>     >> >> to use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead which provides tab-specific
>     >> >> window configuration history and is better behaved when
>     >> >> `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
>     >> >> 
>     >> >> ?
>     >> 
>     Eli> SGTM, thanks.
>     >> 
>     >> Grammar/gerund alert:

I never understood what a gerund is because I missed that English class
because I was sick that day.  C:
[ The text book definition was too opaque and I couldn't solve the
  exercises to save myself, and I never bothered to ask my teacher what
  the hell it meant.  ]

>     >> If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
>
>     Stephen> s/indent/intend/
>
> The golden rule of grammar discussion is that there will be spelling
> mistakes (and vice-versa) 😉

Thankfully I fixed in the next iteration of the patch.  ;-)

>     >> using `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, which provides tab-specific
>     >> window configuration history, and is better behaved when
>     >> `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
>     >> 
>     >> (Iʼd even be tempted to use ';' instead of the second ',', and replace
>     >> 'which' with 'it')
>
>     Stephen> Or "instead, since it provides", since it's a justification of the
>     Stephen> recommendation.

Are you supposed to have a comma before since?  In any case, is the
grammar of

    If you intend to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
    using `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, since it provides tab-specific
    window configuration history, and is better behaved when
    `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.

correct?

> That works as well. Iʼm told that using ';' is falling out of favour,
> since allegedly the youth of today donʼt understand it.

It is hard to figure out where to put the semicolon.  It falling out of
favour means there aren't plenty of examples unless you're reading
Victorian novels I suppose.

Message #50 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>,
 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 11:29:26 +0100

>>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 15:46:47 +0530, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> said:

    Stephen> Or "instead, since it provides", since it's a justification of the
    Stephen> recommendation.

    Visuwesh> Are you supposed to have a comma before since?  In any case, is the
    Visuwesh> grammar of

Contrast:

    Itʼs not mandatory but since the sentence is long itʼs nice to
    provide the comma in order to allow the reader to pause mentally.

with putting commas between the clauses:

    Itʼs not mandatory, but since the sentence is long, itʼs nice to
    provide the comma in order to allow the reader to pause mentally.

The following would be excessive (also known as "Shatner-mode"):

    Itʼs not mandatory, but, since the sentence is long, itʼs nice to
    provide the comma, in order to allow the reader to pause, mentally.

In short: the comma before "since" works well.

    Visuwesh>     If you intend to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
    Visuwesh>     using `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, since it provides tab-specific
    Visuwesh>     window configuration history, and is better behaved when
    Visuwesh>     `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.

    Visuwesh> correct?

    >> That works as well. Iʼm told that using ';' is falling out of favour,
    >> since allegedly the youth of today donʼt understand it.

    Visuwesh> It is hard to figure out where to put the semicolon.  It falling out of
    Visuwesh> favour means there aren't plenty of examples unless you're reading
    Visuwesh> Victorian novels I suppose.

Anytime there can be a comma, there can be a semicolon. Easy 🙂

Robert
-- 

Message #53 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>,
 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 16:05:03 +0530

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

[வெள்ளி பிப்ரவரி 21, 2025] Robert Pluim wrote:

>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 15:46:47 +0530, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> said:
>
>     Stephen> Or "instead, since it provides", since it's a justification of the
>     Stephen> recommendation.
>
>     Visuwesh> Are you supposed to have a comma before since?  In any case, is the
>     Visuwesh> grammar of
>
> Contrast:
>
>     Itʼs not mandatory but since the sentence is long itʼs nice to
>     provide the comma in order to allow the reader to pause mentally.
>
> with putting commas between the clauses:
>
>     Itʼs not mandatory, but since the sentence is long, itʼs nice to
>     provide the comma in order to allow the reader to pause mentally.
>
> The following would be excessive (also known as "Shatner-mode"):
>
>     Itʼs not mandatory, but, since the sentence is long, itʼs nice to
>     provide the comma, in order to allow the reader to pause, mentally.
>
> In short: the comma before "since" works well.

Right, thanks for the hint.  I was using commas excessively at one point
in time, but that got me some comments which ended me here...
[ One of these days, I should finish reading The Elements of Style.  ]

>     Visuwesh>     If you intend to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
>     Visuwesh>     using `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, since it provides tab-specific
>     Visuwesh>     window configuration history, and is better behaved when
>     Visuwesh>     `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
>
>     Visuwesh> correct?
>
>     >> That works as well. Iʼm told that using ';' is falling out of favour,
>     >> since allegedly the youth of today donʼt understand it.
>
>     Visuwesh> It is hard to figure out where to put the semicolon.  It falling out of
>     Visuwesh> favour means there aren't plenty of examples unless you're reading
>     Visuwesh> Victorian novels I suppose.
>
> Anytime there can be a comma, there can be a semicolon. Easy 🙂

Wasn't there a distinction between a "short" and a "long" pause?
Something about short clauses?

In any case, how about the attached?

[0001-Recommend-tab-bar-history-mode-over-winner-mode.patch (text/x-diff, attachment)]

Message #56 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: juri <at> linkov.net, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,
 Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>, 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 05:38:06 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Fri, Feb 21, 2025 at 5:30 AM Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 15:46:47 +0530, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
> said:
>
>     Visuwesh> It is hard to figure out where to put the semicolon.  It
> falling out of
>     Visuwesh> favour means there aren't plenty of examples unless you're
> reading
>     Visuwesh> Victorian novels I suppose.
>
> Anytime there can be a comma, there can be a semicolon. Easy 🙂
>

Native English writer here.  This is not quite the case.  Proper semicolon
use is to glue together _independent_ clauses; [correct use] comma use is
to glue together _dependent_ clauses.  An independent clause would be one
that could itself be a sentence.  Comma use is also handy to avoid
ambiguity among items, [correct use] and to provide clarity.  A semicolon
can also be used to separate multiple comma-separated lists.

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #59 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>, Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>,
 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 05:39:41 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

In prose, there are no such things as short and long pauses.  That's a
concept for dramatic reading, and has nothing to do with proper grammar.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2025 at 5:36 AM Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> [வெள்ளி பிப்ரவரி 21, 2025] Robert Pluim wrote:
>
> >>>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 15:46:47 +0530, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
> said:
> >
> >     Stephen> Or "instead, since it provides", since it's a justification
> of the
> >     Stephen> recommendation.
> >
> >     Visuwesh> Are you supposed to have a comma before since?  In any
> case, is the
> >     Visuwesh> grammar of
> >
> > Contrast:
> >
> >     Itʼs not mandatory but since the sentence is long itʼs nice to
> >     provide the comma in order to allow the reader to pause mentally.
> >
> > with putting commas between the clauses:
> >
> >     Itʼs not mandatory, but since the sentence is long, itʼs nice to
> >     provide the comma in order to allow the reader to pause mentally.
> >
> > The following would be excessive (also known as "Shatner-mode"):
> >
> >     Itʼs not mandatory, but, since the sentence is long, itʼs nice to
> >     provide the comma, in order to allow the reader to pause, mentally.
> >
> > In short: the comma before "since" works well.
>
> Right, thanks for the hint.  I was using commas excessively at one point
> in time, but that got me some comments which ended me here...
> [ One of these days, I should finish reading The Elements of Style.  ]
>
> >     Visuwesh>     If you intend to use `tab-bar-mode' with
> `winner-mode', we recommend
> >     Visuwesh>     using `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, since it
> provides tab-specific
> >     Visuwesh>     window configuration history, and is better behaved
> when
> >     Visuwesh>     `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
> >
> >     Visuwesh> correct?
> >
> >     >> That works as well. Iʼm told that using ';' is falling out of
> favour,
> >     >> since allegedly the youth of today donʼt understand it.
> >
> >     Visuwesh> It is hard to figure out where to put the semicolon.  It
> falling out of
> >     Visuwesh> favour means there aren't plenty of examples unless you're
> reading
> >     Visuwesh> Victorian novels I suppose.
> >
> > Anytime there can be a comma, there can be a semicolon. Easy 🙂
>
> Wasn't there a distinction between a "short" and a "long" pause?
> Something about short clauses?
>
> In any case, how about the attached?
>
>

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #62 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>,
 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 11:48:50 +0100

>>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 16:05:03 +0530, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> said:
    Visuwesh> -deletes the button."
    Visuwesh> +deletes the button.
    Visuwesh> +
    Visuwesh> +If you intend to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend to
    Visuwesh> +use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, since it provides tab-specific
    Visuwesh> +window configuration history, and is better behaved when `tab-bar-mode'
    Visuwesh> +is turned on."

"we recommend using"

    Visuwesh>    :global t
    Visuwesh>    ;; It's defined in C/cus-start, this stops the d-m-m macro defining it again.
    Visuwesh>    :variable tab-bar-mode
    Visuwesh> diff --git a/lisp/winner.el b/lisp/winner.el
    Visuwesh> index e56ddf92965..e56e7268727 100644
    Visuwesh> --- a/lisp/winner.el
    Visuwesh> +++ b/lisp/winner.el
    Visuwesh> @@ -345,7 +345,13 @@ winner-mode
    Visuwesh>  into windows) so that the changes can be \"undone\" using the
    Visuwesh>  command `winner-undo'.  By default this one is bound to the key
    Visuwesh>  sequence \\`C-c <left>'.  If you change your mind (while undoing),
    Visuwesh> -you can press \\`C-c <right>' (calling `winner-redo')."
    Visuwesh> +you can press \\`C-c <right>' (calling `winner-redo').
    Visuwesh> +
    Visuwesh> +If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider using `tab-bar-history-mode' as

and here we could put a comma before "as"

    Visuwesh> +`winner-mode' is unaware of tab switching and might turn the window

and before "and"

    Visuwesh> +configuration of the current tab to another's (old) window
    Visuwesh> +configuration.  `tab-bar-history-mode' provides tab-specific window
    Visuwesh> +configuration history avoiding this problem."
    Visuwesh>    :global t
    Visuwesh>    (if winner-mode
    Visuwesh>        (progn

Robert
-- 

Message #65 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>,
 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 16:35:07 +0530

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

[வெள்ளி பிப்ரவரி 21, 2025] Robert Pluim wrote:

Thanks for thoroughly checking.

>>>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 16:05:03 +0530, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> said:
>     Visuwesh> -deletes the button."
>     Visuwesh> +deletes the button.
>     Visuwesh> +
>     Visuwesh> +If you intend to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend to
>     Visuwesh> +use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, since it provides tab-specific
>     Visuwesh> +window configuration history, and is better behaved when `tab-bar-mode'
>     Visuwesh> +is turned on."
>
> "we recommend using"
>
>     Visuwesh>    :global t
>     Visuwesh>    ;; It's defined in C/cus-start, this stops the d-m-m macro defining it again.
>     Visuwesh>    :variable tab-bar-mode
>     Visuwesh> diff --git a/lisp/winner.el b/lisp/winner.el
>     Visuwesh> index e56ddf92965..e56e7268727 100644
>     Visuwesh> --- a/lisp/winner.el
>     Visuwesh> +++ b/lisp/winner.el
>     Visuwesh> @@ -345,7 +345,13 @@ winner-mode
>     Visuwesh>  into windows) so that the changes can be \"undone\" using the
>     Visuwesh>  command `winner-undo'.  By default this one is bound to the key
>     Visuwesh>  sequence \\`C-c <left>'.  If you change your mind (while undoing),
>     Visuwesh> -you can press \\`C-c <right>' (calling `winner-redo')."
>     Visuwesh> +you can press \\`C-c <right>' (calling `winner-redo').
>     Visuwesh> +
>     Visuwesh> +If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider using `tab-bar-history-mode' as
>
> and here we could put a comma before "as"

I've left this part out since I feel the sentence has a different
meaning with this comma.

[0001-Recommend-tab-bar-history-mode-over-winner-mode.patch (text/x-diff, attachment)]

Message #68 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net, visuweshm <at> gmail.com
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 13:41:37 +0200

> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
> Cc: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>,  76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  juri <at> linkov.net
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:26:46 +0100
> 
> >>>>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:43:58 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> said:
>     >> 
>     >> If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
>     >> to use `tab-bar-history-mode' instead which provides tab-specific
>     >> window configuration history and is better behaved when
>     >> `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
>     >> 
>     >> ?
> 
>     Eli> SGTM, thanks.
> 
> Grammar/gerund alert:
> 
>     If you indent to use `tab-bar-mode' with `winner-mode', we recommend
>     using `tab-bar-history-mode' instead, which provides tab-specific
>     window configuration history, and is better behaved when
>     `tab-bar-mode' is turned on.
> 
> (Iʼd even be tempted to use ';' instead of the second ',', and replace
> 'which' with 'it')

OK for the addition of commas, but I don't think we should use the
second proposal: the sentence reads better and more logically in its
above form.

Message #71 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: rpluim <at> gmail.com, stephen.berman <at> gmx.net, 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 14:13:45 +0200

> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
> Cc: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>,  Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,
>   76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  juri <at> linkov.net
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 16:35:07 +0530
> 
> I've left this part out since I feel the sentence has a different
> meaning with this comma.

Thanks.  This version is okay, with one minor nit:

> +If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider using `tab-bar-history-mode' as
> +`winner-mode' is unaware of tab switching, and might turn the window

There should be a comma before "as".

Message #74 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: rpluim <at> gmail.com, stephen.berman <at> gmx.net, 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 19:32:46 +0530

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

[வெள்ளி பிப்ரவரி 21, 2025] Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
>> Cc: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>,  Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,
>>   76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  juri <at> linkov.net
>> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 16:35:07 +0530
>> 
>> I've left this part out since I feel the sentence has a different
>> meaning with this comma.
>
> Thanks.  This version is okay, with one minor nit:
>
>> +If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider using `tab-bar-history-mode' as
>> +`winner-mode' is unaware of tab switching, and might turn the window
>
> There should be a comma before "as".

I hope this is all okay now.

[0001-Recommend-tab-bar-history-mode-over-winner-mode.patch (text/x-diff, attachment)]

Message #77 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, stephen.berman <at> gmx.net, 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 rpluim <at> gmail.com, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:16:12 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Not sure what it means to "turn" a window configuration.  Perhaps something
like below is simpler and gets the salient point across and adds the key
binding information winner-mode users might find to be helpful
encouragement.

If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider using `tab-bar-history-mode', as
`winner-mode' is unaware of tab switching, and can confuse `tab-bar'
window configurations.  `tab-bar-history-mode' provides
tab-specific window configuration history, avoiding this problem, and
its default key bindings match those of `winner-mode'.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2025 at 9:05 AM Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> [வெள்ளி பிப்ரவரி 21, 2025] Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
> >> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
> >> Cc: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman <at> gmx.net>,  Eli Zaretskii <
> eliz <at> gnu.org>,
> >>   76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  juri <at> linkov.net
> >> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 16:35:07 +0530
> >>
> >> I've left this part out since I feel the sentence has a different
> >> meaning with this comma.
> >
> > Thanks.  This version is okay, with one minor nit:
> >
> >> +If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider using `tab-bar-history-mode' as
> >> +`winner-mode' is unaware of tab switching, and might turn the window
> >
> > There should be a comma before "as".
>
> I hope this is all okay now.
>
>

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #80 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, stephen.berman <at> gmx.net, 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 rpluim <at> gmail.com, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 11:41:41 +0530

[வெள்ளி பிப்ரவரி 21, 2025] Ship Mints wrote:

> Not sure what it means to "turn" a window configuration.  Perhaps something
> like below is simpler and gets the salient point across and adds the key
> binding information winner-mode users might find to be helpful
> encouragement.
>
> If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider using `tab-bar-history-mode', as
> `winner-mode' is unaware of tab switching, and can confuse `tab-bar'
> window configurations.  `tab-bar-history-mode' provides
> tab-specific window configuration history, avoiding this problem, and
> its default key bindings match those of `winner-mode'.

I find "can confuse `tab-bar' window configurations" lacking in detail.
If the problem is the verb "turn", what do you think about using
"change" or "replace" instead?

Message #83 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, stephen.berman <at> gmx.net, 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 rpluim <at> gmail.com, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 07:18:22 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 1:11 AM Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> [வெள்ளி பிப்ரவரி 21, 2025] Ship Mints wrote:
>
> > Not sure what it means to "turn" a window configuration.  Perhaps
> something
> > like below is simpler and gets the salient point across and adds the key
> > binding information winner-mode users might find to be helpful
> > encouragement.
> >
> > If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider using `tab-bar-history-mode', as
> > `winner-mode' is unaware of tab switching, and can confuse `tab-bar'
> > window configurations.  `tab-bar-history-mode' provides
> > tab-specific window configuration history, avoiding this problem, and
> > its default key bindings match those of `winner-mode'.
>
> I find "can confuse `tab-bar' window configurations" lacking in detail.
> If the problem is the verb "turn", what do you think about using
> "change" or "replace" instead?
>

How about "`winner-mode' window-configuration histories are tab naive, and
will produce unexpected results when used with `tab-bar-mode`."

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #86 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
Cc: juri <at> linkov.net, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, stephen.berman <at> gmx.net,
 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 13:59:19 +0100

>>>>> On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 07:18:22 -0500, Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com> said:

    Ship> On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 1:11 AM Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> wrote:
    >> [வெள்ளி பிப்ரவரி 21, 2025] Ship Mints wrote:
    >> 
    >> > Not sure what it means to "turn" a window configuration.  Perhaps
    >> something
    >> > like below is simpler and gets the salient point across and adds the key
    >> > binding information winner-mode users might find to be helpful
    >> > encouragement.
    >> >
    >> > If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider using `tab-bar-history-mode', as
    >> > `winner-mode' is unaware of tab switching, and can confuse `tab-bar'
    >> > window configurations.  `tab-bar-history-mode' provides
    >> > tab-specific window configuration history, avoiding this problem, and
    >> > its default key bindings match those of `winner-mode'.
    >> 
    >> I find "can confuse `tab-bar' window configurations" lacking in detail.
    >> If the problem is the verb "turn", what do you think about using
    >> "change" or "replace" instead?
    >> 

    Ship> How about "`winner-mode' window-configuration histories are tab naive, and
    Ship> will produce unexpected results when used with `tab-bar-mode`."

Iʼd say "are not aware of tabs", just to avoid us discussing whether
itʼs "tab naive", "tab naïve", "tab-naive", or "tab-naïve" 🙂

Robert
-- 

Message #89 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: juri <at> linkov.net, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, stephen.berman <at> gmx.net,
 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 08:09:13 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

In English, naive is correct as an adapted old-French word (same with naif).

No hyphen necessary as there is no clarification needed for the object of
the adjective.

Let's go for broad clarity over brevity.

On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 7:59 AM Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>>> On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 07:18:22 -0500, Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
> said:
>
>     Ship> On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 1:11 AM Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
> wrote:
>     >> [வெள்ளி பிப்ரவரி 21, 2025] Ship Mints wrote:
>     >>
>     >> > Not sure what it means to "turn" a window configuration.  Perhaps
>     >> something
>     >> > like below is simpler and gets the salient point across and adds
> the key
>     >> > binding information winner-mode users might find to be helpful
>     >> > encouragement.
>     >> >
>     >> > If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider using `tab-bar-history-mode',
> as
>     >> > `winner-mode' is unaware of tab switching, and can confuse
> `tab-bar'
>     >> > window configurations.  `tab-bar-history-mode' provides
>     >> > tab-specific window configuration history, avoiding this problem,
> and
>     >> > its default key bindings match those of `winner-mode'.
>     >>
>     >> I find "can confuse `tab-bar' window configurations" lacking in
> detail.
>     >> If the problem is the verb "turn", what do you think about using
>     >> "change" or "replace" instead?
>     >>
>
>     Ship> How about "`winner-mode' window-configuration histories are tab
> naive, and
>     Ship> will produce unexpected results when used with `tab-bar-mode`."
>
> Iʼd say "are not aware of tabs", just to avoid us discussing whether
> itʼs "tab naive", "tab naïve", "tab-naive", or "tab-naïve" 🙂
>
> Robert
> --
>

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #92 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
Cc: juri <at> linkov.net, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, stephen.berman <at> gmx.net,
 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:14:35 +0100

>>>>> On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 08:09:13 -0500, Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com> said:

    Ship> In English, naive is correct as an adapted old-French word (same with naif).
    Ship> No hyphen necessary as there is no clarification needed for the object of
    Ship> the adjective.

Iʼm going to have to make my "donʼt take this comment too seriously"
notices bigger. Maybe wrap them in <blink></blink> or something.

    Ship> Let's go for broad clarity over brevity.

Absolutely.

Robert
-- 

Message #95 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, stephen.berman <at> gmx.net, 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 rpluim <at> gmail.com, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 18:19:03 +0530

This still doesn't say what the anomalous behaviour is, so I am not sure we should use this either.

On 23 February 2025 17:48:22 GMT+05:30, Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 1:11 AM Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> [வெள்ளி பிப்ரவரி 21, 2025] Ship Mints wrote:
>>
>> > Not sure what it means to "turn" a window configuration.  Perhaps
>> something
>> > like below is simpler and gets the salient point across and adds the key
>> > binding information winner-mode users might find to be helpful
>> > encouragement.
>> >
>> > If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider using `tab-bar-history-mode', as
>> > `winner-mode' is unaware of tab switching, and can confuse `tab-bar'
>> > window configurations.  `tab-bar-history-mode' provides
>> > tab-specific window configuration history, avoiding this problem, and
>> > its default key bindings match those of `winner-mode'.
>>
>> I find "can confuse `tab-bar' window configurations" lacking in detail.
>> If the problem is the verb "turn", what do you think about using
>> "change" or "replace" instead?
>>
>
>How about "`winner-mode' window-configuration histories are tab naive, and
>will produce unexpected results when used with `tab-bar-mode`."

Message #98 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, stephen.berman <at> gmx.net, 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 rpluim <at> gmail.com, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 10:15:44 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Unexpected results suffices for me.  I don't see a need to be more explicit.

On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 10:04 AM Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> This still doesn't say what the anomalous behaviour is, so I am not sure
> we should use this either.
>
> On 23 February 2025 17:48:22 GMT+05:30, Ship Mints <shipmints <at> gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 1:11 AM Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> [வெள்ளி பிப்ரவரி 21, 2025] Ship Mints wrote:
> >>
> >> > Not sure what it means to "turn" a window configuration.  Perhaps
> >> something
> >> > like below is simpler and gets the salient point across and adds the
> key
> >> > binding information winner-mode users might find to be helpful
> >> > encouragement.
> >> >
> >> > If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider using `tab-bar-history-mode', as
> >> > `winner-mode' is unaware of tab switching, and can confuse `tab-bar'
> >> > window configurations.  `tab-bar-history-mode' provides
> >> > tab-specific window configuration history, avoiding this problem, and
> >> > its default key bindings match those of `winner-mode'.
> >>
> >> I find "can confuse `tab-bar' window configurations" lacking in detail.
> >> If the problem is the verb "turn", what do you think about using
> >> "change" or "replace" instead?
> >>
> >
> >How about "`winner-mode' window-configuration histories are tab naive, and
> >will produce unexpected results when used with `tab-bar-mode`."
>

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #101 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, stephen.berman <at> gmx.net, 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 rpluim <at> gmail.com
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 20:15:31 +0200

close 76439 31.0.50
thanks

>>> I've left this part out since I feel the sentence has a different
>>> meaning with this comma.
>>
>> Thanks.  This version is okay, with one minor nit:
>>
>>> +If you use `tab-bar-mode', consider using `tab-bar-history-mode' as
>>> +`winner-mode' is unaware of tab switching, and might turn the window
>>
>> There should be a comma before "as".
>
> I hope this is all okay now.

And I hope that I haven't made a mistake, and this is really the latest version.
So now pushed to master, and closed.  Thanks for the documentation improvement.

Message #106 received at 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, stephen.berman <at> gmx.net, 76439 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 rpluim <at> gmail.com
Subject: Re: bug#76439: [PATCH] Specify 'tab-bar-history-mode' in
 'winner-mode' docstring
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2025 09:00:13 +0530

[வியாழன் பிப்ரவரி 27, 2025] Juri Linkov wrote:

> And I hope that I haven't made a mistake, and this is really the latest version.
> So now pushed to master, and closed.  Thanks for the documentation improvement.

You installed the latest one, indeed.  Thanks!

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