GNU bug report logs - #76377
gnu: packages: remove g-golf and nomad

Previous Next

To add a comment to this bug, you must first unarchive it, by sending
a message to control AT debbugs.gnu.org, with unarchive 76377 in the body.
You can then email your comments to 76377 AT debbugs.gnu.org in the normal way.

Toggle the display of automated, internal messages from the tracker.

Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: David Pirotte <david <at> altosw.be>
To: guix-patches <at> gnu.org
Subject: gnu: packages: remove g-golf and nomad
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2025 19:12:55 -0300

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hello,

Attached is a patch to remove g-golf and nomad, the only package that
depends on g-golf (nomad was and still is reported to fail to build in
guix for quite a long time now, fwiw).

Please review and apply as soon as possible.

Thanks,
David

[0001-gnu-packages-remove-g-golf-and-nomad.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]

[Message part 3 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #10 received at 76377-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian <at> pelzflorian.de>
To: David Pirotte <david <at> altosw.be>
Cc: 76377-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: [bug#76377] gnu: packages: remove g-golf and nomad
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2025 10:57:28 +0100

The context of this patch is a naming dispute.

David Pirotte, author of G-Golf, an excellent Guile interface to GTK,
Adwaita and GNOME libraries, insisted that Guix use the package name
g-golf when packaging his G-Golf project.

Guix currently uses the name guile-g-golf in accordance with its
not-written-down naming policy for pure Guile libraries, that should be
applied according to maintainers [1] and analogous to the written-down
policy for Python [2] and CommonLisp [3] and analogous to what its
semi-automatic package importers for other languages from CRAN, OPAM,
etc. do.

People suggested/discussed that David make a patch to just remove G-Golf
from Guix.

Gábor [5] and Maxim [6] proposed making g-golf an alias of guile-g-golf
(currently it is a deprecated alias)); Tobias [7] does not like but
would accept this compromise.  David does not respond to the
suggestions, though, and private mails do not appear as if David intends
to respond.

In private mails, David announced his intention to put G-Golf in an
external Guix channel.

But this is not consensus.  There is opposition to removing in [4].
Also I am myself a user of G-Golf for a tiny zenity-like Kodi launcher
in my Guix Home configuration and would like to keep it without some
third-party channel.

Further, lacking G-Golf in Guix would harm both Guix and G-Golf.  G-Golf
should get more users and Guix should ship desired packages.

G-Golf is really a nicer interface to GTK, because it is in Guile and
well-maintained and has examples that I currently package [7], even
though I still recommend to understand GTK’s documentation for C even
when programming Guile.

Nomad does not build due to incompatibility with current Webkit, but I
still have hope someone might revive it.

Closing without apply.

Regards,
Florian

[1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-02/msg00241.html
[2] https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Python-Modules.html
[3] https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/html_node/Build-Systems.html#index-asdf_002dbuild_002dsystem_002fsource
[4] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-02/msg00321.html
[5] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-02/msg00320.html
[6] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-02/msg00296.html
[7] https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76246#32

Message #13 received at 76377 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>
To: 76377 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, pelzflorian <at> pelzflorian.de, david <at> altosw.be
Subject: Re: bug#76377: gnu: packages: remove g-golf and nomad
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 13:05:06 -0500

On Sat, Feb 22, 2025 at 10:57:28AM +0100, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> The context of this patch is a naming dispute.
[...]

This is bad for Guix. If the upstream developer of some software that we
package has a reasonable request for us, we should strongly consider
accepting their request.

It does not help the Guix project to be argumentative or ornery.

Let's work together to improve the world of free software, not dig in
our heels over minor issues like package names. It's a free software
project, not a package naming project.

Also, this would not be the first time we accept some kind of cosmetic
advice from upstream.

Message #16 received at 76377 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian <at> pelzflorian.de>
To: Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>
Cc: 76377 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, david <at> altosw.be
Subject: Re: bug#76377: gnu: packages: remove g-golf and nomad
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 07:56:48 +0100

More context: Later on, we made a package named g-golf as an alternative
equally valid package but (in code comments) discouraged its use.  This
was a unilateral “compromise”.  Unilateral because David has not
accepted it and, in private mails, did not want to discuss it.

Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name> writes:
> On Sat, Feb 22, 2025 at 10:57:28AM +0100, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
>> The context of this patch is a naming dispute.
> [...]
>
> This is bad for Guix. If the upstream developer of some software that we
> package has a reasonable request for us, we should strongly consider
> accepting their request.
>
> It does not help the Guix project to be argumentative or ornery.
>

Yes, this was not consensus decision making, but IMO is not Guix’ fault.

But David’s request, that we make g-golf the name of the guile-g-golf
package, can hardly be encouraged by Guix.  That is, logically, Guix
cannot encourage not following its policy.


> Let's work together to improve the world of free software, not dig in
> our heels over minor issues like package names. It's a free software
> project, not a package naming project.
>
> Also, this would not be the first time we accept some kind of cosmetic
> advice from upstream.

The original request [1] suggested using package version
0.8.0-rc9-guile2.2 for the guile2.2 variant (well, likely without rc9
now), which would deviate much from the rest of Guix (and is version>?
than 0.8.0).

Regards,
Florian

[1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-02/msg00173.html

Message #19 received at 76377 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Leo Famulari" <leo <at> famulari.name>
To: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian <at> pelzflorian.de>
Cc: 76377 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, david <at> altosw.be
Subject: Re: bug#76377: gnu: packages: remove g-golf and nomad
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 13:21:13 -0500

On Wed, Feb 26, 2025, at 01:56, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> But David’s request, that we make g-golf the name of the guile-g-golf
> package, can hardly be encouraged by Guix.  That is, logically, Guix
> cannot encourage not following its policy.

Earlier, you described this policy as "not written down". That's not a policy, in my opinion.

And we should consider deviating from it when people have strong feelings about it.

Already, we seem to have alienated the author of a Guile package, which is tragically counterproductive.

And really, what's so bad about naming the package of the g-golf program "g-golf"? We've deviated from these informal guidelines before and the world kept turning.

Message #22 received at 76377 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: David Pirotte <david <at> altosw.be>
To: Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>
Cc: 76377 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, pelzflorian <at> pelzflorian.de
Subject: Re: bug#76377: gnu: packages: remove g-golf and nomad
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 17:07:28 -0300

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi Leo,

> > The context of this patch is a naming dispute.  
> [...]

> This is bad for Guix. If the upstream developer of some software that
> we package has a reasonable request for us, we should strongly
> consider accepting their request.

> It does not help the Guix project to be argumentative or ornery.

> Let's work together to improve the world of free software, not dig in
> our heels over minor issues like package names. It's a free software
> project, not a package naming project.

> Also, this would not be the first time we accept some kind of cosmetic
> advice from upstream.

1+, for 'all the above'.

Please forward (or post) to guix-devel, and ask guix to name my package
g-golf, to deprecate and later remove guile-[X.Y-]g-golf pkgs.

Thanks,
David

[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #25 received at 76377 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: David Pirotte <david <at> altosw.be>
To: "Leo Famulari" <leo <at> famulari.name>
Cc: 76377 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 "pelzflorian \(Florian Pelz\)" <pelzflorian <at> pelzflorian.de>
Subject: Re: bug#76377: gnu: packages: remove g-golf and nomad
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 17:41:25 -0300

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

> > But David’s request, that we make g-golf the name of the
> > guile-g-golf package, can hardly be encouraged by Guix.  That is,
> > logically, Guix cannot encourage not following its policy.  

> Earlier, you described this policy as "not written down". That's not
> a policy, in my opinion.

> And we should consider deviating from it when people have strong
> feelings about it.

> Already, we seem to have alienated the author of a Guile package,
> which is tragically counterproductive.

> And really, what's so bad about naming the package of the g-golf
> program "g-golf"? We've deviated from these informal guidelines
> before and the world kept turning.

1+

The first (created) guix g-golf package was (properly) named g-golf.

[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #30 received at 76377 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian <at> pelzflorian.de>
To: "Leo Famulari" <leo <at> famulari.name>
Cc: 76377 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, david <at> altosw.be
Subject: Re: bug#76377: gnu: packages: remove g-golf and nomad
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 09:20:20 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Note that we are mostly discussing dependency lists when writing a
package

(inputs
 (list adwaita-icon-theme
       bash-minimal
       libadwaita
       (librsvg-for-system)
       gtk
       guile-3.0
       guile-g-golf))

and the style of Guix source code.  On the CLI,

guix shell --no-grafts g-golf gtk guile

is possible at this time without warning or discouragement, although on
equal terms with

guix shell --no-grafts guile-g-golf gtk guile

"Leo Famulari" <leo <at> famulari.name> writes:
> And really, what's so bad about naming the package of the g-golf
> program "g-golf"? We've deviated from these informal guidelines before
> and the world kept turning.

gtk is named gtk, not libgtk, although gtk does have binaries, too.

GTK 3 library clutter is named clutter, not libclutter, so you have a
point there.

Is Leo right, that we deviate frequently and with precedent?  If so, my
standing in for the policy crumbles.  Better change the name now than
later.

Other opinions?

Preliminary diff attached.  This reverts:

commit 694e31723788d811d026a047c9dea8e0d735362c
Author: Zhu Zihao <all_but_last <at> 163.com>
Date:   Thu Feb 3 22:35:10 2022 +0800

    gnu: Deprecate the 'g-golf' variable.
    
    g-golf now supports both Guile 3.0 and 2.2. Assign a new name to identify
    the g-golf for different Guile version.
    
    * gnu/packages/guile-xyz.scm (g-golf): Rename to guile-g-golf.
    (g-golf): Define as deprecated by guile-g-golf.
    
    Signed-off-by: Ludovic Courtès <ludo <at> gnu.org>


Regards,
Florian

[gnu-guile-g-golf-Deprecate-package-name.diff (text/x-patch, inline)]

diff --git a/gnu/packages/guile-xyz.scm b/gnu/packages/guile-xyz.scm
index 88bf074600..aa829e9215 100644
--- a/gnu/packages/guile-xyz.scm
+++ b/gnu/packages/guile-xyz.scm
@@ -2547,9 +2547,9 @@ (define-public guile-sly
     (home-page "https://dthompson.us/projects/sly.html")
     (license license:gpl3+)))
 
-(define-public guile-g-golf
+(define-public g-golf
   (package
-    (name "guile-g-golf")
+    (name "g-golf")
     (version "0.8.0")
     (source
      (origin
@@ -2637,6 +2637,11 @@ (define-public guile-g-golf
 are unaffected.")
     (license license:lgpl3+)))
 
+(define-public guile-g-golf
+  ;; Deprecated because of G-Golf author's explicit request for an exception
+  ;; from usual naming conventions.  <https://bugs.gnu.org/76377>
+  (deprecated-package "guile-g-golf" g-golf))
+
 (define-public g-golf
   ;; Use ‘guile-g-golf’ above in package inputs and other code.  This alias
   ;; exists as a compromise, see
@@ -2647,16 +2652,16 @@ (define-public g-golf
 
 (define-public guile2.2-g-golf
   (package
-    (inherit guile-g-golf)
+    (inherit g-golf)
     (name "guile2.2-g-golf")
     (inputs
-     (modify-inputs (package-inputs guile-g-golf)
+     (modify-inputs (package-inputs g-golf)
        (replace "guile" guile-2.2)
        (replace "guile-lib" guile2.2-lib)))))
 
 (define-public g-golf-gtk-4-examples
   (package
-    (inherit guile-g-golf)
+    (inherit g-golf)
     (name "g-golf-gtk-4-examples")
     (arguments
      (list
@@ -2737,7 +2742,7 @@ (define-public g-golf-gtk-4-examples
             (add-after 'install 'wrap-binaries
               (lambda* (#:key inputs #:allow-other-keys)
                 (let* ((version (target-guile-effective-version))
-                       (g-golf (assoc-ref inputs "guile-g-golf"))
+                       (g-golf (assoc-ref inputs "g-golf"))
                        (gcairo (assoc-ref inputs "guile-cairo-next"))
                        (adwaita-icons (assoc-ref inputs "adwaita-icon-theme"))
                        (scm (string-append "/share/guile/site/" version))
@@ -2816,7 +2821,7 @@ (define-public g-golf-gtk-4-examples
            gtk
            guile-3.0
            guile-cairo-next
-           guile-g-golf))
+           g-golf))
     (native-inputs
      (list pkg-config
            which
@@ -2845,7 +2850,7 @@ (define-public g-golf-gtk-4-examples
 
 (define-public g-golf-adw-1-examples
   (package
-    (inherit guile-g-golf)
+    (inherit g-golf)
     (name "g-golf-adw-1-examples")
     (build-system glib-or-gtk-build-system)
     (arguments
@@ -2921,7 +2926,7 @@ (define-public g-golf-adw-1-examples
             (add-after 'install 'wrap-binaries
               (lambda* (#:key inputs #:allow-other-keys)
                 (let* ((version (target-guile-effective-version))
-                       (g-golf (assoc-ref inputs "guile-g-golf"))
+                       (g-golf (assoc-ref inputs "g-golf"))
                        (adwaita-icons (assoc-ref inputs "adwaita-icon-theme"))
                        (libadwaita-icons (assoc-ref inputs "libadwaita"))
                        (scm (string-append "/share/guile/site/" version))
@@ -2967,7 +2972,7 @@ (define-public g-golf-adw-1-examples
            (librsvg-for-system)
            gtk
            guile-3.0
-           guile-g-golf))
+           g-golf))
     (native-inputs (list `(,glib "bin") ;for glib-compile-resources
                          guile-3.0))
     (propagated-inputs (list))

base-commit: 150df457d1e269790f184510c58d031ee00a9ebb
-- 
2.48.1

Message #35 received at 76377-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian <at> pelzflorian.de>
To: "Leo Famulari" <leo <at> famulari.name>
Cc: 76377-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org, david <at> altosw.be
Subject: Re: [bug#76377] gnu: packages: remove g-golf and nomad
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2025 00:29:38 +0100

Both sides of the argument do not want to set precedent for funny
package names.  One finds guile-g-golf is adulterated (I presume so
without knowing David’s reasons).  But a package name g-golf does not
indicate that it is “just” Guile binding helper glue.  Again, we are
talking about looking at dependency listings.  We do have this
consistent naming for other Guile libraries like Sly or even Hoot.

Since the naming is generally consistent, I do not think Leo’s argument
that we are not strict about naming elsewhere holds.  This naming policy
is written down for Perl, Python, CommonLisp, Elm, Rust and is applied
by importers.  We are talking about naming of Guix packages in Guix
source code, after all.  We are definitely no longer talking about names
of the G-Golf project.

Closing this bug again.

Regards,
Florian

Previous Next

GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997,2003 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.