GNU bug report logs - #76119
[PATCH] doc: contributing.texi: document yhetil.org web service.

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Cayetano Santos <csantosb <at> inventati.org>
To: guix-patches <at> gnu.org
Cc: Cayetano Santos <csantosb <at> inventati.org>
Subject: [PATCH] doc: contributing.texi: document yhetil.org web service.
Date: Fri,  7 Feb 2025 12:21:34 +0100

Change-Id: I1a6a7283c9b25864447e0b0e396b72471db7ce74
Signed-off-by: Cayetano Santos <csantosb <at> inventati.org>
---
 doc/contributing.texi | 23 +++++++++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 23 insertions(+)

diff --git a/doc/contributing.texi b/doc/contributing.texi
index c94ae940fa..2777f2279e 100644
--- a/doc/contributing.texi
+++ b/doc/contributing.texi
@@ -700,6 +700,29 @@ For more information, refer to @ref{Bug Reference,,, emacs, The GNU
 Emacs Manual} and @ref{Minor Mode,,, debbugs-ug, The Debbugs User
 Guide}.
 
+@node Tracking bugs and issues with public-inbox
+@subsection Tracking bugs and issues with public-inbox
+
+Contributing to Guix is strongly based on an email based workflow, as
+patches and bugs are sent by email to its corresponding
+maillists. Reviewers reply to emails, and an exchange thread follows
+until a consensus is reached, and the contribution is accepted or
+rejected. With time, this implies a deluge of emails on inboxes, which
+difficults collaboration of communities.
+
+As an alternative, the yhetil.org @url{https://yhetil.org} service,
+using Public Inbox @url{https://public-inbox.org/README.html}, provides
+an online, always available archive with the complete history of a
+maillist. It exposes a public, URL oriented fronted based on Message-ID
+identifiers to classify email exchanges. It offers full thread overview,
+atom feeds, reply links and thread download in mbox format for local
+maniputation.
+
+The yhetil.org service also includes advanced searching capabilities,
+which combined with mumi hints
+@url{https://issues.guix.gnu.org/help#search} to track status, tags,
+Message ID, etc., provides a powerful tool to contribute to Guix.
+
 @node Alternative Setups
 @section Alternative Setups
 

base-commit: 52c05f3b120e641c8bd2d68cfcf0d6af947de27b
-- 
2.48.1

Message #8 received at 76119 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ludovic Courtès <ludo <at> gnu.org>
To: Cayetano Santos <csantosb <at> inventati.org>
Cc: 76119 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: [bug#76119] [PATCH] doc: contributing.texi: document yhetil.org
 web service.
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2025 10:48:38 +0100

Hi,

Cayetano Santos <csantosb <at> inventati.org> skribis:

> +@node Tracking bugs and issues with public-inbox
> +@subsection Tracking bugs and issues with public-inbox

How about “Navigating Email with public-inbox”?  Please also update the
menu above.

> +Contributing to Guix is strongly based on an email based workflow, as
> +patches and bugs are sent by email to its corresponding
> +maillists. Reviewers reply to emails, and an exchange thread follows

I’d drop the second sentence and change the first one to something like:
“Contributing to Guix involves a lot of communication by email on public
mailing lists.”  I think it’s enough.

> +As an alternative, the yhetil.org @url{https://yhetil.org} service,
> +using Public Inbox @url{https://public-inbox.org/README.html}, provides

s/Public Inbox/public-inbox/ (apparently that’s how they spell it)

Also: @uref{https://public-inbox.org/README.html, public-inbox} rather
than a separate @url.

Could you send an updated patch?

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Message #11 received at 76119 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Cayetano Santos <csantosb <at> inventati.org>
To: 76119 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Cayetano Santos <csantosb <at> inventati.org>
Subject: [PATCH v1] doc: contributing.texi: document yhetil.org web service.
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2025 11:16:59 +0100

Change-Id: I1a6a7283c9b25864447e0b0e396b72471db7ce74
---
 doc/contributing.texi | 22 ++++++++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 22 insertions(+)

diff --git a/doc/contributing.texi b/doc/contributing.texi
index c94ae940fa..4cf6148f3d 100644
--- a/doc/contributing.texi
+++ b/doc/contributing.texi
@@ -700,6 +700,28 @@ For more information, refer to @ref{Bug Reference,,, emacs, The GNU
 Emacs Manual} and @ref{Minor Mode,,, debbugs-ug, The Debbugs User
 Guide}.
 
+@node Navigating Email with public-inbox
+@subsection Navigating Email with public-inbox
+
+Contributing to Guix involves a lot of communication by email on public
+mailing lists. Reviewers reply to emails, and an exchange thread follows
+until a consensus is reached, and the contribution is accepted or
+rejected. With time, this implies a deluge of emails on inboxes, which
+difficults collaboration of communities.
+
+As an alternative, the yhetil.org @url{https://yhetil.org} service,
+using public-inbox @uref{https://public-inbox.org/README.html,
+public-inbox}, provides an online, always available archive with the
+complete history of a maillist. It exposes a public, URL oriented
+fronted based on Message-ID identifiers to classify email exchanges. It
+offers full thread overview, atom feeds, reply links and thread download
+in mbox format for local maniputation.
+
+The yhetil.org service also includes advanced searching capabilities,
+which combined with mumi hints
+@url{https://issues.guix.gnu.org/help#search} to track status, tags,
+Message ID, etc., provides a powerful tool to contribute to Guix.
+
 @node Alternative Setups
 @section Alternative Setups
 

base-commit: d59a13b6401e7494d8d5c9c9f66df3318451be79
--
2.48.1

Message #14 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: 45mg <45mg.writes <at> gmail.com>
To: Cayetano Santos via Guix-patches via <guix-patches <at> gnu.org>,
 76119 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Ludovic Courtès <ludo <at> gnu.org>,
 Cayetano Santos <csantosb <at> inventati.org>
Subject: Re: [bug#76119] [PATCH] doc: contributing.texi: document yhetil.org
 web service.
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2025 10:43:00 +0000

Hi Cayetano,

Thanks for taking this up.

I just wanted to raise a question - what do we know about yhetil.org?
For example, do we know who maintains it? Are they committed to
maintaining it in the long term, or is this just a personal convenience
project that could disappear any moment?

I've used yhetil.org for a long time, but I still don't know these
things. I can't find any contact information on the home page, either.

Without that knowledge, it just feels a little odd for the Guix project
to officially trust and recommend the use of this particular online
service.

Like, imagine if the manual had a list of email providers that play nice
with GNU mailing lists. Sure, it would be useful information, but it
would also be seen as an endorsement of those providers; so we'd want to
look into their records on data privacy, etc first.

Obviously that level of concern is not warranted here since yhetil.org
is just a public-inbox archive; but I still think it would be good to
find out a bit more about that site.

Message #20 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Cayetano Santos <csantosb <at> inventati.org>
To: 45mg <45mg.writes <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Ludovic Courtès <ludo <at> gnu.org>, 76119 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Cayetano Santos via Guix-patches via <guix-patches <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: [bug#76119] [PATCH] doc: contributing.texi: document yhetil.org
 web service.
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2025 12:10:21 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

>mer. 12 févr. 2025 at 10:43, 45mg <45mg.writes <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Cayetano,
>
> Thanks for taking this up.
>
> I just wanted to raise a question - what do we know about yhetil.org?
> For example, do we know who maintains it? Are they committed to
> maintaining it in the long term, or is this just a personal convenience
> project that could disappear any moment?
>
> I've used yhetil.org for a long time, but I still don't know these
> things. I can't find any contact information on the home page, either.
>
> Without that knowledge, it just feels a little odd for the Guix project
> to officially trust and recommend the use of this particular online
> service.
>
> Like, imagine if the manual had a list of email providers that play nice
> with GNU mailing lists. Sure, it would be useful information, but it
> would also be seen as an endorsement of those providers; so we'd want to
> look into their records on data privacy, etc first.
>
> Obviously that level of concern is not warranted here since yhetil.org
> is just a public-inbox archive; but I still think it would be good to
> find out a bit more about that site.

I have to say that I fully agree with you. Yhetil is one of the most
useful guix services from my perspective, but foreign to the
organisation, which is a risk. Kind of good to know, but no guarantees
whatsoever.

Let’s put this in stand-by. In the meantime, let’s try to know a bit
more about this yhetil ownership.

Thanks for your remarks,

--
Cayetano Santos
.
gpg: CCB8 1842 F9D7 058E CD67 377A BF5C DF4D F6BF 6682
key: meta.sr.ht/~csantosb.pgp

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #26 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Cayetano Santos <csantosb <at> inventati.org>
To: guix-patches <at> gnu.org
Cc: ludo <at> gnu.org, 45mg.writes <at> gmail.com, 76119 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 csantosb <at> inventati.org
Subject: Re: [bug#76119] [PATCH] doc: contributing.texi: document yhetil.org
 web service.
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:08:17 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

We have now a hint on ownership of yhetil.org.

  https://yhetil.org/guix-user/87jz9lcky6.fsf <at> kyleam.com/

The service is stable since 2024 (5 years ago), we can put a name on it
(Kyle Meyer), and even if there are no guarantees whatsoever about how
long it will remain active (same as any other service), in my opinion we
may feel rather confident about its stability during a relevant period
of time, so as to include it as a useful reference in the documentation.

Additionally, the remarks Kyle states in its previous email about
cloning and mirroring seem fair to me.

--
Cayetano Santos
.
gpg: CCB8 1842 F9D7 058E CD67 377A BF5C DF4D F6BF 6682
key: meta.sr.ht/~csantosb.pgp

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #32 received at 76119 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune <at> gmail.com>
To: 45mg <45mg.writes <at> gmail.com>, 76119 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Ludovic Courtès <ludo <at> gnu.org>,
 Cayetano Santos <csantosb <at> inventati.org>
Subject: Re: [bug#76119] [PATCH] doc: contributing.texi: document yhetil.org
 web service.
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 15:29:08 +0100

Hi,

On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 at 10:43, 45mg <45mg.writes <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> I just wanted to raise a question - what do we know about yhetil.org?
> For example, do we know who maintains it? Are they committed to
> maintaining it in the long term, or is this just a personal convenience
> project that could disappear any moment?

Well, Kyle is around since years. :-)

We discussed many times to host such public-inbox instance under some
Guix umbrella.  But hey Guix sysadmins have enough on their plates.

Maybe someone will take the ball rolling… :-)

Cheers,
simon

PS: Once you have Emacs-Notmuch, public-inbox and b4, it’s the perfect
    setup, much better than any forge. ;-)
    

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