From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:37:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Resent-From: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:21:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 75804 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 75804@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.173771763529947 (code B ref -1); Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:21:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2025 11:20:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43822 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tbHjl-0007mu-0C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 06:20:35 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:53120) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tbHje-0007mU-Oa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Fri, 24 Jan 2025 06:20:14 -0500 (EST) From: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 12:20:12 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=103.168.172.154; envelope-from=rudolf@adamkovic.org; helo=fhigh-a3-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) Greetings! As I observe my kids learning Emacs, I often see their struggles, which are mostly caused by "bad" defaults (bad for new users, that is). Many of these were discussed already: tiny default font, brutalist colors, unfriendly completions (not auto-visible nor auto-updating), no fuzzy matching, no spell checking, and more. Here, I would like to focus on yet-another "bad default" that makes my daughter struggle regularly: the 5-second `ispell-help-timeout'. For context, she is not confident with her spelling yet, but she does use Emacs every day to write her diary. The default `ispell-help-timeout' makes it impossible for her to use the Ispell menu comfortably and act confidently. Me, I cannot read the menu in 5 seconds either. For the reasons given, I suggest we increase the `ispell-help-timeout' to at least 60 seconds, or better disable it altogether. The help menu is actionable, it lets the user to type the relevant action key right away, so what is the purpose of the timeout, anyway? Thank you for your time. Rudy In GNU Emacs 31.0.50 (build 1, aarch64-apple-darwin24.2.0, NS appkit-2575.30 Version 15.2 (Build 24C101)) of 2025-01-23 built on Rudolfs-MacBook-Air.local Repository revision: ed5067e689a5e38795d5c27c5a688886d259a298 Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2575 System Description: macOS 15.2 Configured using: 'configure --with-json --with-tree-sitter --with-sqlite3 --with-native-compilation=3Daot' Configured features: ACL GLIB GNUTLS LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY KQUEUE NS PDUMPER PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM ZLIB Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: en_US.UTF-8 value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Magit Minor modes in effect: global-git-commit-mode: t magit-auto-revert-mode: t server-mode: t global-hl-line-mode: t global-diff-hl-mode: t marginalia-mode: t global-hi-lock-mode: t hi-lock-mode: t corfu-history-mode: t global-corfu-mode: t corfu-mode: t 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fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads kqueue cocoa ns lcms2 multi-tty make-network-process tty-child-frames native-compile emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 2541020 272823) (symbols 48 61923 13) (strings 32 450295 13279) (string-bytes 1 12274933) (vectors 16 194023) (vector-slots 8 3151495 4361= 15) (floats 8 924 1542) (intervals 56 238477 2764) (buffers 992 45)) --=20 "Mathematics takes us still further from what is human into the region of absolute necessity, to which not only the actual world, but every possible world, must conform." --- Bertrand Russell, 1902 Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D [he/him] http://adamkovic.org From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:37:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 12:17:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75804 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Cc: 75804@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 75804-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75804.17377210147585 (code B ref 75804); Fri, 24 Jan 2025 12:17:01 +0000 Received: (at 75804) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2025 12:16:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43976 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tbIcI-0001yH-3S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 07:16:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55568) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tbIcD-0001y0-NR for 75804@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 07:16:52 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tbIc8-0000bs-2M; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 07:16:44 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=jL+rggP5NRG/IoaEuvvbobTGNlGBM2NR734XQtLnIL0=; b=kKNG4QpIJaGZRCRSOM7q Q4uVEN8DXVD4bUR8DVo5qI99rf0TCHrmRdem6/d1VPO6kG1+sZvECQ5SN/otY+SNZs6/A8w2u1xBe 7u7YqnxRy1EdkuV5oSWpE1FciEtzDfuVpeLXNKhLxCtHVlM9wf4fPQzmZomHAt3rNT2CKHKDxo167 ub9bwHc5xUxAAYTWM41niRuMHSqM9M99F0WfeamccdhFsDI0loDuufrPC+IPhobD1iEa/vwlIiaMQ 9Jl1seatrNC/+TJ/a7wV1dhilLv5pDC3ZBl79jQ2lFvZVwY6KKUPWufjRoVyq2KvYluzuklCN0AZ7 KByfbmuKdQ52tg==; Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 14:16:11 +0200 Message-Id: <86cygcxv90.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= on Fri, 24 Jan 2025 12:20:12 +0100) References: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Rudolf Adamkovič > Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 12:20:12 +0100 > > As I observe my kids learning Emacs, I often see their struggles, which > are mostly caused by "bad" defaults (bad for new users, that is). Many > of these were discussed already: tiny default font, brutalist colors, > unfriendly completions (not auto-visible nor auto-updating), no fuzzy > matching, no spell checking, and more. Thank you so much for your friendly comments about Emacs defaults. > Here, I would like to focus on yet-another "bad default" that makes my > daughter struggle regularly: the 5-second `ispell-help-timeout'. For > context, she is not confident with her spelling yet, but she does use > Emacs every day to write her diary. The default `ispell-help-timeout' > makes it impossible for her to use the Ispell menu comfortably and act > confidently. Me, I cannot read the menu in 5 seconds either. > > For the reasons given, I suggest we increase the `ispell-help-timeout' > to at least 60 seconds, or better disable it altogether. The help menu > is actionable, it lets the user to type the relevant action key right > away, so what is the purpose of the timeout, anyway? This display is for people who already know about the possible actions, and just forgot which key activates which action. An Ispell newbie will be confused even if the timeout will be longer, because the descriptions of the actions are too terse to be useful. I think newbies should customize ispell-help-in-bufferp to the value 'electric', which will cause Emacs to pop up a *Help* buffer which pops down only when the user presses 'q'. However, I agree that the timeout is too short even if the user knows what are his/her options. How about increasing the timeout to 30 sec? From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:37:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 00:17:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75804 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= , 75804@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 75804-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75804.173776417327174 (code B ref 75804); Sat, 25 Jan 2025 00:17:02 +0000 Received: (at 75804) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2025 00:16:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47716 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tbTqO-00072X-Hv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 19:16:13 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x530.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::530]:45337) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tbTqL-0006kT-Cj for 75804@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 19:16:10 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x530.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5db6890b64eso5522418a12.3 for <75804@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:16:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1737764163; x=1738368963; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date :mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=/fEcCYIFrC0QlUaKtf2KdVaB+HfmV3mBAuHKYVygQOk=; b=IfzFtz7mSate82eExY6vcrgp3ixTVQ+2gpyrDMjsdd4B3dY3J9IzN7v9LTjB5mpgyj zhhqT6RrhW+s+RPPUY9ppipuyvjJgcR2QD92mSUw5YCYGVt5AUDnETv1TjSeW1MeyCgE nJFyhLHGbNxBK3GA5aWNZ9/3Wzdx272gy6UI9topcKiNhPJgmBW1FVB0MGw54hGxCeoB MYxKe2IwWtKJ71i5m9W/r5UbMSycnLjt1hOjl0ku4gsCXyYPVG9MqM9FsvGLDaTMVfnW ZiTDw/bGDYqcFhURhj5ja/drL7szGsw/trnZdfXN1n5t+9JPlqjtdZAcTPnVvVaEdb66 YVoQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1737764163; x=1738368963; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date :mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/fEcCYIFrC0QlUaKtf2KdVaB+HfmV3mBAuHKYVygQOk=; b=RGZjvxA8kvH3Z0X34qb8P0ePi1qu0lxxmhp6mOKYOM7i0HhA/cUtiTZBGqY08ndVM7 PRAxo+6wyViurUNSUudKCvkXobxNq+k+EOtgJOqzhX2OHEPcipaxfNl/W3d9U/pu5Cmw 6y6GaxgcyngikwI0lCW4S9YH8L4q/AI5gPY2zaTf1KdsX6OpJP3xivsW8AIRvOt4flPo Y1BegDqVqZcumEwbKssS5tQ1ChBHX/cRaNRvCdSUmmLHKFfEOKuw7ahy2SqoAi3lM9HO 9TG271LvdX+brqug9eWQLkwQSbzJ5AkH0Fjq6GhCvxpItpRsDqFuG7CO8WPIfkdbYIHD e0fQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWaCFYxVsu2Jfpbk+o1GWXyoN8gFKwBU7QmeExpCLx3rk3Z39q/H09pZRnqbMkWbDs7C+wX0w==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzOjvz+FFSwX5OQhqt/RdP0r1+nC6ahDvrqjflrjWF6Ug0I8LOL khvule0RRcGDSQ2XC/TV5BELUWz6mv6hQu7ClpoMcvh5Yim/J8fkPAGOMAPCtuuRIoW30p1UIuo Lm4q3IY0VJnX17NQzCOyiaA9VwTP0GKf9 X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncs02uASTll+SbH2c1UBvTCcfeRhndAQvPYH1GXzztUa0/FEllgAGvN8hx3fyaZ dGhoVcwcwucpRAEpteVEoR0UD6ru80LGHE2yIVEh9lfNabcWyzWxU+yMOg1jGO+o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEul8bAc/R9k6MWKMyJJsCTPw5CyZ+81QF9vlKm1UOyJmMvWgmEJ+KurodWMlo/ces/mjpFDTCXbRXy6PhLUbE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:2813:b0:5db:731d:4456 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5db7db07839mr32921842a12.28.1737764163036; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:16:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 18:16:02 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <86cygcxv90.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 24 Jan 2025 14:16:11 +0200") References: <86cygcxv90.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 18:16:02 -0600 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZkU5lla8IBHjZXk2H43S5EnMheXbgugN606mu3Wsahy5eby_orTA9QujYg Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D >> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 12:20:12 +0100 >> >> As I observe my kids learning Emacs, I often see their struggles, which >> are mostly caused by "bad" defaults (bad for new users, that is). Many >> of these were discussed already: tiny default font, brutalist colors, >> unfriendly completions (not auto-visible nor auto-updating), no fuzzy >> matching, no spell checking, and more. > > Thank you so much for your friendly comments about Emacs defaults. FWIW, I agree that most of the above could bear improving. I'm also very excited to hear about users teaching Emacs to kids! That's the right spirit, and it's not often that we hear such stories on this bug tracker. So thanks for that. >> Here, I would like to focus on yet-another "bad default" that makes my >> daughter struggle regularly: the 5-second `ispell-help-timeout'. For >> context, she is not confident with her spelling yet, but she does use >> Emacs every day to write her diary. The default `ispell-help-timeout' >> makes it impossible for her to use the Ispell menu comfortably and act >> confidently. Me, I cannot read the menu in 5 seconds either. >> >> For the reasons given, I suggest we increase the `ispell-help-timeout' >> to at least 60 seconds, or better disable it altogether. The help menu >> is actionable, it lets the user to type the relevant action key right >> away, so what is the purpose of the timeout, anyway? > > This display is for people who already know about the possible > actions, and just forgot which key activates which action. An Ispell > newbie will be confused even if the timeout will be longer, because > the descriptions of the actions are too terse to be useful. I think > newbies should customize ispell-help-in-bufferp to the value > 'electric', which will cause Emacs to pop up a *Help* buffer which > pops down only when the user presses 'q'. > > However, I agree that the timeout is too short even if the user knows > what are his/her options. How about increasing the timeout to 30 sec? Increasing it to 30 seconds sounds good to me. 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Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 18:16:17 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 18:16:17 -0600 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZl-DK4b4a8IiFReoDB1pMsDnEWlqFs3JlIgQlTfs8ShltuTqo_wGldR9_M Message-ID: Subject: control message for bug #75804 To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) severity 75804 wishlist quit From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:37:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Resent-From: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75804 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii Cc: 75804@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 75804-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75804.173780403626771 (code B ref 75804); 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Sat, 25 Jan 2025 06:20:26 -0500 (EST) From: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= In-Reply-To: References: <86cygcxv90.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 12:20:22 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Stefan Kangas writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> How about increasing the timeout to 30 sec? > > Increasing it to 30 seconds sounds good to me. All right folks, here is a patch! Eli: I apologize if my words came across as passively aggressive. I did not mean to criticize Emacs defaults for the sake of it, like a troll would. Instead, I wanted to list the key defaults which caused problems, to my kids and also my friend. I am incredibly grateful for all your wisdom and guidance, Eli, both of which are much greater than what I have to offer. Again, I apologize for my wording. Stefan: Thank you for your nice words! It is crazy to _actually see_ how much difference the defaults make to someone who is just starting. Seeing that struggle is downright painful, especially if you know that Emacs could help them, and do it better than most programs. Both: Experts can easily customize Emacs, from helpful to minimal, but it does not work the other way around, so the infamous "newbies should customize ..." is problematic. Me, I think being helpful by default, instead of minimalist, makes more sense. Rudy --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Ispell-Increase-help-timeout.patch >From ed1b420a9579ac00dad0afc661373634115ed3c6 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: =?UTF-8?q?Rudolf=20Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:24:34 +0100 Subject: [PATCH] Ispell: Increase help timeout * lisp/textmodes/ispell.el (ispell-help-timeout): Increase the timeout from 5 to 30 seconds to allow users, especially new users, read the Ispell help menu comfortably and act confidently (bug#75754). --- lisp/textmodes/ispell.el | 2 +- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el index b0f4e416a6e..eca42b63023 100644 --- a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el +++ b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el @@ -402,7 +402,7 @@ ispell-local-dictionary-alist (const :tag "default" nil)) (coding-system :tag "Coding System")))) -(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 5 +(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 30 "The number of seconds to display the help text." :type 'number :version "28.1") -- 2.39.5 (Apple Git-154) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --=20 =E2=80=9CThose who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.=E2= =80=9D --- George Santayana, Life of Reason: Reason in Common Sense, 1905 Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D [he/him] http://adamkovic.org --=-=-=-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:37:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Resent-From: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:25:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75804 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii Cc: 75804@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 75804-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75804.173780427227322 (code B ref 75804); Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:25:02 +0000 Received: (at 75804) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2025 11:24:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48769 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tbeH9-00076b-ON for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Sat, 25 Jan 2025 06:24:23 -0500 (EST) From: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= In-Reply-To: References: <86cygcxv90.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 12:24:22 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D writes: > All right folks, here is a patch! And, of course, I screwed it up. :) Here is a new patch, this time with the correct bug reference number. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-patch Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Ispell-Increase-help-timeout.patch >From d8ded5bcba933cb057572807473f9699d7db4919 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: =?UTF-8?q?Rudolf=20Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:24:34 +0100 Subject: [PATCH] Ispell: Increase help timeout * lisp/textmodes/ispell.el (ispell-help-timeout): Increase the timeout from 5 to 30 seconds to allow users, especially new users, read the Ispell help menu comfortably and act confidently (bug#75804). --- lisp/textmodes/ispell.el | 2 +- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el index b0f4e416a6e..eca42b63023 100644 --- a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el +++ b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el @@ -402,7 +402,7 @@ ispell-local-dictionary-alist (const :tag "default" nil)) (coding-system :tag "Coding System")))) -(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 5 +(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 30 "The number of seconds to display the help text." :type 'number :version "28.1") -- 2.39.5 (Apple Git-154) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --=20 "'Obvious' is all too often a synonym for 'wrong'." --- Jeff Erickson, Algorithms, 2019 Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D [he/him] http://adamkovic.org --=-=-=-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:37:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Resent-From: Robert Pluim Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 11:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75804 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 75804@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas Received: via spool by 75804-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75804.17378900064518 (code B ref 75804); Sun, 26 Jan 2025 11:14:02 +0000 Received: (at 75804) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2025 11:13:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54895 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tc0Zy-0001Ao-0c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Sun, 26 Jan 2025 03:13:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb51:9094:4960:42e7:829a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-438bd4c6fadsm90149975e9.32.2025.01.26.03.13.16 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 26 Jan 2025 03:13:16 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Pluim In-Reply-To: ("Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?="'s message of "Sat, 25 Jan 2025 12:24:22 +0100") References: <86cygcxv90.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 12:13:15 +0100 Message-ID: <87plk94ylw.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 12:24:22 +0100, Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D said: Rudolf> Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D writes: >> All right folks, here is a patch! Rudolf> And, of course, I screwed it up. :) Rudolf> Here is a new patch, this time with the correct bug reference n= umber. Rudolf> From d8ded5bcba933cb057572807473f9699d7db4919 Mon Sep 17 00:00:= 00 2001 Rudolf> From: =3D?UTF-8?q?Rudolf=3D20Adamkovi=3DC4=3D8D?=3D Rudolf> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:24:34 +0100 Rudolf> Subject: [PATCH] Ispell: Increase help timeout Rudolf> * lisp/textmodes/ispell.el (ispell-help-timeout): Increase the = timeout Rudolf> from 5 to 30 seconds to allow users, especially new users, read= the Rudolf> Ispell help menu comfortably and act confidently (bug#75804). Rudolf> --- Rudolf> lisp/textmodes/ispell.el | 2 +- Rudolf> 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) Rudolf> diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el Rudolf> index b0f4e416a6e..eca42b63023 100644 Rudolf> --- a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el Rudolf> +++ b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el Rudolf> @@ -402,7 +402,7 @@ ispell-local-dictionary-alist Rudolf> (const :tag "default" nil)) Rudolf> (coding-system :tag "Coding System")))) =20 Rudolf> -(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 5 Rudolf> +(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 30 Rudolf> "The number of seconds to display the help text." Rudolf> :type 'number Rudolf> :version "28.1") Rudolf> --=20 Rudolf> 2.39.5 (Apple Git-154) When the default value of a defcustom is changed, the :version tag needs to be updated (in this case to "31.1"). Robert --=20 From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:37:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 13:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75804 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= , Eli Zaretskii Cc: 75804@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 75804-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75804.17378973557687 (code B ref 75804); Sun, 26 Jan 2025 13:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 75804) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2025 13:15:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55233 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tc2UV-0001zv-5G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2025 08:15:55 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x52c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52c]:51471) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tc2US-0001z8-Sb for 75804@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2025 08:15:53 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d9b6b034easo7132748a12.3 for <75804@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 26 Jan 2025 05:15:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1737897346; x=1738502146; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date :mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=gaFNjURC/pilpZObPPcz2yQ6q7gX8vaJ4oRB1wHhIzY=; b=MwxqHPBWTK6vN5KMfprwbyG/f8GX0LOCcTxoB6bv69krhXh4TyPKS2BdfCLCyc+bxs +9yeq8xD0MnK2w+ufQAj9FuobwMEuFUCMyaj15+CnceiaB/3oX+MujAzo7JXCbXPr10X vE8tiO1pjQPusObjT883w/Pm2ObCGR0Xb6cCdz675cTbtwpXH2uQa7ZnflgiIqbD0Kcr A0MXR+8GuDOfkjY5aegdoxqdkL7XkNHYg0VLE6QEGRTxyfB7Z/hm26T7amOWeW/NvwZ+ 5X3INu0LbcpZGT+xf9GRpKE8wFOhNM2yQ41sNlB3chdnhFJQFWNmfuGa4Bnlq0ljUYIu GqZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1737897346; x=1738502146; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date :mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=gaFNjURC/pilpZObPPcz2yQ6q7gX8vaJ4oRB1wHhIzY=; b=O6zyBEnkFzzz/jMRmOQQt+G1/0Ut3hg8i4L61AFNAjd6Ew7xAIQF9hNv42TAYCBuTA 38Ej7B3jkAf/EsA4gT3Am600chuaDWl+SY/BcC/rUXSooVi8G7B18xGuFWLoNSk/iujW eDEROaJizOF4DiKA7Ibnm5+Vyw3hlDRNo4OTlVZ1AjpuYourxavwvFWXqHTVVd5AEZH+ zsIcoCG5zqOV1Ybo8WMD8/IziM9U/DNc5s9bWKh0Uzb70zh3dUGYHJzcQTyXMIq2U00i rNV1r/Tp56kg5WcCx5tP32cyyKoDGDuW78u/hZkhAQpHvfFe3MC7jcwWaVIjtlkSRVEw bT5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzHj2+PdjGFkO536h0DYkUBRI/VhPxPgn2BtYmzwH2vfxJe0KpA 6Xh6LvLZBjKteNW50Aro6rLFBwkAmQAiG9syyv5kGEw2ARv4X2f1N1+d9jhWW3OIPspyIB2U23z haoJjPROsdA9A3k1auVpmW8sYT4g= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsBIMrFkhHbmHup1HQvv49rfwvySEH5nU3c+0yTA7Sn8Az+Sr8HzeVe0JbJKPl b2ITe1IUsV5EiS6l0i3dBw7j7TKvQsc+LPpVJ/wZHxVkYRYa/9FIsWEwObUrlLNaC X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHEnFrDgs14ZmA/s0wFUCBwPvwHjDHo4DEmx3O+9IvprCJ1s4/LKKB8b1Gb131bxMjBoBA5S4hO0I1SYW7J5FE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:26c4:b0:5d9:a55:42ef with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5db7d31bc5dmr37428855a12.17.1737897346000; Sun, 26 Jan 2025 05:15:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 26 Jan 2025 07:15:45 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: References: <86cygcxv90.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 07:15:45 -0600 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZm2QEafLZpPMEBY0fOwBku0Li9YYVmm5vJMY3g1rtwf_9BKwWJuGXEdE98 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D writes: > From d8ded5bcba933cb057572807473f9699d7db4919 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 > From: =3D?UTF-8?q?Rudolf=3D20Adamkovi=3DC4=3D8D?=3D > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:24:34 +0100 > Subject: [PATCH] Ispell: Increase help timeout > > * lisp/textmodes/ispell.el (ispell-help-timeout): Increase the timeout > from 5 to 30 seconds to allow users, especially new users, read the > Ispell help menu comfortably and act confidently (bug#75804). Thanks. 1. I don't see that we support a nil value, so I think we should add it, and `nil` should mean "never time out". This would be easier to set than (setq ispell-help-timeout most-positive-fixnum). 2. I gave this a try, but actually I'm not at all sure why we should hide the buffer at all, by default. The user asked to show it, after all, and Emacs is waiting for them to hit a key. IMO, it is hard to even understand the purpose of this hiding "feature". I think we should just leave it on the screen, which is what the help system does everywhere else. Users who _really_ want to hide it, for some reason that I don't understand, will just have to customize it back. So I'm in favor of a `nil` default. The above 1-2 should be documented in NEWS. 3. We should probably consider this, because a value <1 is rather useless and more likely than not a user mistake: diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el index 761a413baab..7b1f5c8ed7f 100644 --- a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el +++ b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el @@ -2513,7 +2513,7 @@ ispell-help (with-current-buffer buffer (insert (concat help-1 "\n" help-2 "\n" help-3))) (ispell-display-buffer buffer) - (sit-for ispell-help-timeout) + (sit-for (max ispell-help-timeout 1)) (kill-buffer "*Ispell Help*")) (unwind-protect (let ((resize-mini-windows 'grow-only)) @@ -2523,7 +2523,7 @@ ispell-help ;;(set-minibuffer-window (selected-window)) (enlarge-window 2) (insert (concat help-1 "\n" help-2 "\n" help-3)) - (sit-for ispell-help-timeout)) + (sit-for (max ispell-help-timeout 1))) (erase-buffer))))))) (define-obsolete-function-alias 'lookup-words 'ispell-lookup-words "24.4") > --- > lisp/textmodes/ispell.el | 2 +- > 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) > > diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el > index b0f4e416a6e..eca42b63023 100644 > --- a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el > +++ b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el > @@ -402,7 +402,7 @@ ispell-local-dictionary-alist > (const :tag "default" nil)) > (coding-system :tag "Coding System")))) > > -(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 5 > +(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 30 > "The number of seconds to display the help text." > :type 'number > :version "28.1") The :type should be 'natnum instead, and the :version tag needs updating like Robert pointed out. > -- > 2.39.5 (Apple Git-154) From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:37:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 13:26:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75804 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: rudolf@adamkovic.org, 75804@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 75804-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75804.17378979449712 (code B ref 75804); Sun, 26 Jan 2025 13:26:02 +0000 Received: (at 75804) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2025 13:25:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55273 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tc2dz-0002WY-JF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2025 08:25:44 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47996) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tc2dx-0002WC-5v for 75804@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2025 08:25:41 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tc2dr-0003az-Nx; Sun, 26 Jan 2025 08:25:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=l39NANrUUAQvmF/4T/Te2FVvxv5HyoyXarbdp/oIeNs=; b=KvmIL9WEol/6 odHq4JjtTjH8Em2iGWkKxCQ5L26pMrmNGkO5DDPIRBaIkKfJAQTPU/5ZVum3mnyFSKLZ3jB8nSPYS CtOJx2GBCJqBmATR19s2f+9J2hmvOvb82OZH7EGBARcW7O06N5xGHXxvpN192g+pUcnS0TuwEMErT 4sTXWOUQWDPY7vHqczWaCs6hjpmTVKe/piIODYCh/l3v+UaJFeHYpDcCe8qnoI4OdyrgkBgdC/v1k WVmCHOx1g7KB4DHCy0NI7LmhT9pLBNYzDTaAlvKemS3m4iF+FRHVfPH7GUVWtoQHzpkYSr32QyP+C K0yQ+bDgUodSP0sc12K+uQ==; Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 15:25:32 +0200 Message-Id: <865xm1so4z.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sun, 26 Jan 2025 07:15:45 -0600) References: <86cygcxv90.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 07:15:45 -0600 > Cc: 75804@debbugs.gnu.org > > 1. I don't see that we support a nil value, so I think we should add it, > and `nil` should mean "never time out". This would be easier to set > than (setq ispell-help-timeout most-positive-fixnum). > > 2. I gave this a try, but actually I'm not at all sure why we should > hide the buffer at all, by default. The user asked to show it, after > all, and Emacs is waiting for them to hit a key. IMO, it is hard to > even understand the purpose of this hiding "feature". > > I think we should just leave it on the screen, which is what the help > system does everywhere else. Users who _really_ want to hide it, for > some reason that I don't understand, will just have to customize it > back. So I'm in favor of a `nil` default. If the user wants the help not to pop down, ever, they should instead customize ispell-help-in-bufferp to the value 'electric'. As I wrote up-thread, keeping the terse help indefinitely makes little sense to me, since it is nothing more than a short reminder, and is not useful for people who use Ispell the first time. Not that I'm against the changes you propose, but at least let's mention the ispell-help-in-bufferp alternative in the doc streing of ispell-help-timeout, so that people who want to set it to nil will have the opportunity of considering the (IMO better) alternative. From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:37:16 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Resent-From: Pip Cet Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 14:32:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75804 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= , Eli Zaretskii , 75804@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 75804-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75804.17379019192569 (code B ref 75804); Sun, 26 Jan 2025 14:32:03 +0000 Received: (at 75804) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2025 14:31:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55496 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tc3g6-0000fH-DQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2025 09:31:58 -0500 Received: from mail-4316.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.16]:42215) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tc3fy-0000eu-Ru for 75804@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2025 09:31:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1737901904; x=1738161104; bh=7HRaMtv8i/d9dNoy+bfZZ0rtWiVSjJtVNDgtvfEryaI=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector:List-Unsubscribe:List-Unsubscribe-Post; b=pxpIBVmPk5bQDumxyjou5YluAQRi+7PguN3FWkTP0OPYGiWSP5DKjpgjBK9GK0D7P C1dUPksf7vbjQbBJ5pSl3w8Ay6C5LElc8P+oEwmwU+i+3zGoUqfNm7ekMY+2qfZ4RL nW+96VQ6/MpI4DT1UUq12s6gc6/Pyc1QXmbxFtNZjJtdtRscDC9EjNeW2Y2v/g0FW3 Tm8G/HLSn7RsI/e+ilQ/vEIUTR+4zJqxsu/D2F/ZPxMaq3Ku0v8ctahrGpkEEjNIly A3Bqt3JZTk+J/eVEQlJAVMLAcMs++7phewXMIoh7agr1lHPIS8oQrTK+CdIkcb4ozH uqbxjxSNx2mMA== Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 14:31:38 +0000 From: Pip Cet Message-ID: <878qqx6405.fsf@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <86cygcxv90.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 112775352:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 6f9fdd4636b5d13b8ddc51a1a1f11a0b2d8d863f MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) "Stefan Kangas" writes: > 3. We should probably consider this, because a value <1 is rather > useless and more likely than not a user mistake: > diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el > index 761a413baab..7b1f5c8ed7f 100644 > --- a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el > +++ b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el > @@ -2513,7 +2513,7 @@ ispell-help > =09 (with-current-buffer buffer > =09=09(insert (concat help-1 "\n" help-2 "\n" help-3))) > =09 (ispell-display-buffer buffer) > -=09 (sit-for ispell-help-timeout) > +=09 (sit-for (max ispell-help-timeout 1)) > =09 (kill-buffer "*Ispell Help*")) > =09 (unwind-protect > =09 (let ((resize-mini-windows 'grow-only)) > @@ -2523,7 +2523,7 @@ ispell-help > =09=09;;(set-minibuffer-window (selected-window)) > =09=09(enlarge-window 2) > =09=09(insert (concat help-1 "\n" help-2 "\n" help-3)) > -=09=09(sit-for ispell-help-timeout)) > +=09=09(sit-for (max ispell-help-timeout 1))) > =09 (erase-buffer))))))) > > (define-obsolete-function-alias 'lookup-words 'ispell-lookup-words "24.4= ") I'm not sure 0 is useful, but what about 0.5? >> diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el >> index b0f4e416a6e..eca42b63023 100644 >> --- a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el >> +++ b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el >> @@ -402,7 +402,7 @@ ispell-local-dictionary-alist >> =09=09=09 (const :tag "default" nil)) >> (coding-system :tag "Coding System")))) >> >> -(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 5 >> +(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 30 >> "The number of seconds to display the help text." >> :type 'number >> :version "28.1") > > The :type should be 'natnum instead, and the :version tag needs updating > like Robert pointed out. It's not immediately obvious to me, from the code, why this cannot be a float. Can you explain? Thanks! Pip From unknown Sun Jun 22 11:37:16 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Subject: bug#75804: closed (Re: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout') Message-ID: References: <864j1dhpln.fsf@gnu.org> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 75804 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 75804@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2025 11:28:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1738409282-15968-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1738409282-15968-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 75804@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 75804: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D75804 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1738409282-15968-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 75804-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Feb 2025 11:27:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56649 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1teBf6-00048r-3d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2025 06:27:44 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44884) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1teBf3-00048d-2s for 75804-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2025 06:27:41 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1teBex-0003Su-Ff; Sat, 01 Feb 2025 06:27:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=Po7W+IMlEo1H63Jbm0fFdbtWKvlH2O6A3Ggcnv6su04=; b=ZTX2PmrGdqXoXy/T5l1u adDGqi3zwRCdJEnOJOilAyjuv/0T1AHm5nhtKVuKbfAVfVrVQpA0DP+fzErg1UX2NznjqKvOLyhJL ubvk90YSFmViAHEZ+ROd5m/+o5RZ6NSw1CNAtUkvD8yyaYzwL3l+eswaXVU9HuEmP2Llo6+JDN/F8 dzfmfTB2Qk54i21iu67ARkevYmVWHUmRPqmNvy3Kcx4XGGfHIgBC9Fi9l4QxozCv7ySLQdg37Ct5V kSY1HcR3IXXAt8ttqdol09+CKgIUNad4y6BT/vDcoTfaAqeSUtDGb0LkxSXWFFE2qNjZtxlJZ6qys pzwKOqYQg26YuA==; Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2025 13:27:32 +0200 Message-Id: <864j1dhpln.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Rudolf =?utf-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= In-Reply-To: (message from Rudolf =?utf-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= on Sat, 25 Jan 2025 12:24:22 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' References: <86cygcxv90.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 75804-done Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, 75804-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Rudolf Adamkovič > Cc: 75804@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 12:24:22 +0100 > > Rudolf Adamkovič writes: > > > All right folks, here is a patch! > > And, of course, I screwed it up. :) > > Here is a new patch, this time with the correct bug reference number. Thanks, installed on the master branch, and closing the bug. ------------=_1738409282-15968-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2025 11:20:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43822 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tbHjl-0007mu-0C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 06:20:35 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:53120) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tbHje-0007mU-Oa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 06:20:30 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tbHjZ-0004id-4E for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 06:20:21 -0500 Received: from fhigh-a3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([103.168.172.154]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tbHjU-0000su-A1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 06:20:20 -0500 Received: from phl-compute-11.internal (phl-compute-11.phl.internal [10.202.2.51]) by mailfhigh.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 097E911400DD for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 06:20:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-11.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 24 Jan 2025 06:20:15 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=adamkovic.org; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:reply-to :subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1737717615; x=1737804015; bh=xv NHezWEexJFIk5YnMfTIBGKgx8qCk7srqyQLw4ySYE=; b=MVqE0QTAf1N/Dd+Wa1 bG+d5Sb/8+gc5OpWur2GhGw5NnMFUkdjhWwO0ZxOiUBD/fsgS67IMw+jbbmYyqgp s7WeVY9rsGBeHYa8hiru0942plQtzT3X6Ly8ivMHdgnuxLOM1JNLhDrj8crLQbEW cdjFlyb1QkGDhiLcn9p7NXcQof3B+2I7iXRzudPyYcg3+h3Uza10vfrO9iACRNcu LzhyrAuz1c5ZP4JxzMTRKW+DazKJCjw+fHjZy0qEGNgVeNA0Fa/JoQ+HPg4WYeEO miOUXq2C/+kuvi/l5NjfZTFjY2oU3W5H25mJ/KoSHdTsrT4TPtcyIZfKzsZPBNVw 3B/w== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1737717615; x=1737804015; bh=xvNHezWEexJFIk5YnMfTIBGKgx8qCk7srqy QLw4ySYE=; b=0fS6lZUaOPq+mX9EpOCTQR5aHAAi/7j2fYosHiCWCpSCcbw2ugy Rskc3x5jvgDUgOtsCV6xFmfn3h6WPXT3VYSu4LcbAX1rijNDuMpqYgnBVWkP94HG xfUdrMikTsvLsuEYazXPfql6wsuYYyV89t6ENdpqB4FpIw8FK6OUXgLmWp1ytKZD t/STLr4SPTaHdokf5C+SvaG18ta0oFa7KmhpfJeoAx7RiTRM2kZFnshH3eI1x58S KEn4NwNGI4XdAV8SmRG0QTKDB3lrYK0nMJYHpD6btDa4gqaPulYFm3QvcQcvITwE jZWu9CrIf5qjXCXE2zpVHK70gUzxZfg1DAg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefuddrudejgedggeefjecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdp uffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvuf ffkfggtgfgsehtqhertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpeftuhguohhlfhcutegurghmkhhovhhi tgcuoehruhguohhlfhesrggurghmkhhovhhitgdrohhrgheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnh ephfffkedtgfduuedugeduffdtkeevhfegtdetveejteefvefggfehheejgfffveeunecu ffhomhgrihhnpegvmhgrtghsrdgrphhpnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrg hrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomheprhhuugholhhfsegruggrmhhkohhvihgtrdhorhhgpdhn sggprhgtphhtthhopedupdhmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopegsuhhgqd hgnhhuqdgvmhgrtghssehgnhhurdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i88214938:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2025 06:20:14 -0500 (EST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Rudolf_Adamkovi=C4=8D?= To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' X-Debbugs-Cc: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 12:20:12 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=103.168.172.154; envelope-from=rudolf@adamkovic.org; helo=fhigh-a3-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) Greetings! As I observe my kids learning Emacs, I often see their struggles, which are mostly caused by "bad" defaults (bad for new users, that is). Many of these were discussed already: tiny default font, brutalist colors, unfriendly completions (not auto-visible nor auto-updating), no fuzzy matching, no spell checking, and more. Here, I would like to focus on yet-another "bad default" that makes my daughter struggle regularly: the 5-second `ispell-help-timeout'. For context, she is not confident with her spelling yet, but she does use Emacs every day to write her diary. The default `ispell-help-timeout' makes it impossible for her to use the Ispell menu comfortably and act confidently. Me, I cannot read the menu in 5 seconds either. For the reasons given, I suggest we increase the `ispell-help-timeout' to at least 60 seconds, or better disable it altogether. The help menu is actionable, it lets the user to type the relevant action key right away, so what is the purpose of the timeout, anyway? Thank you for your time. Rudy In GNU Emacs 31.0.50 (build 1, aarch64-apple-darwin24.2.0, NS appkit-2575.30 Version 15.2 (Build 24C101)) of 2025-01-23 built on Rudolfs-MacBook-Air.local Repository revision: ed5067e689a5e38795d5c27c5a688886d259a298 Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2575 System Description: macOS 15.2 Configured using: 'configure --with-json --with-tree-sitter --with-sqlite3 --with-native-compilation=3Daot' Configured features: ACL GLIB GNUTLS LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY KQUEUE NS PDUMPER PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM ZLIB Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: en_US.UTF-8 value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Magit Minor modes in effect: global-git-commit-mode: t magit-auto-revert-mode: t server-mode: t global-hl-line-mode: t global-diff-hl-mode: t marginalia-mode: t global-hi-lock-mode: t hi-lock-mode: t corfu-history-mode: t global-corfu-mode: t corfu-mode: t 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fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads kqueue cocoa ns lcms2 multi-tty make-network-process tty-child-frames native-compile emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 2541020 272823) (symbols 48 61923 13) (strings 32 450295 13279) (string-bytes 1 12274933) (vectors 16 194023) (vector-slots 8 3151495 4361= 15) (floats 8 924 1542) (intervals 56 238477 2764) (buffers 992 45)) --=20 "Mathematics takes us still further from what is human into the region of absolute necessity, to which not only the actual world, but every possible world, must conform." --- Bertrand Russell, 1902 Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D [he/him] http://adamkovic.org ------------=_1738409282-15968-1--