Subject: bug#75638: [PATCH] Include various GNU manuals in info-url-alist

From: Björn Bidar <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 22:40:40 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <[email-masked]> writes:

>> From: Björn Bidar <[email-masked]>
>> Cc: Stefan Kangas <[email-masked]>,  Andrea Corallo
>>  <[email-masked]>,  Juri Linkov <[email-masked]>,  [email-masked]
>> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 16:23:33 +0200
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <[email-masked]> writes:
>> 
>> > The canonical place that associates Texinfo manuals with the URLs of
>> > their Web pages is the file util/htmlxref.cnf in the Texinfo source
>> > tree.
>> 
>> If this file exists why do we not use it then?
>
> It was never needed before.  The current code supports only the Emacs
> manuals, and for those we always know where they are kept, because we
> upload them there.
>

I understand that it was never needed before but from the way you
explained it using htmlxef.cnf was from my point of view clearly the
correct approach. 

>> > I'm not sure I like this direction of extending Info-goto-node-web.
>> > It was designed to support the Emacs manuals.
>> 
>> Info is for reading info Texinfo manuals not just Emacs manuals right?
>> If so the command isn't just specific to Emacs manuals. 
>
> I'm not talking about Info in general, I'm talking about this
> particular command.

I understand that you were talking about this command, I thought that
was implied, I was also talking about that command. The command does not
read like it is purely intended for the use with Emacs related manuals
but to browse the web version of manuals in general. I don't see how the
original intend of the function is a blocker to expand the command in
general. 

>> > Adding all this stuff to it takes us very far from that goal, and
>> > I'm not sure why would we  want that.
>> 
>> To link to documentation for example. For example a project I'm working
>> on uses Autoconf. To explain a change I've made I linked to the manual
>> on the GNU website. Linking to HTML version of the manual is the most
>> accessible in a editor neutral context.
>
> First, we have in Emacs a format for linking to Info documentation.
> The command 'w' in Info copies the link to the kill-ring, so you can
> later yank it into a different place.  The link is in the form
> "(FILENAME) NODENAME", and the Info reader can interpret it.

Sure that is nice but most people don't consume manuals this way. If I
want to link to a manual using a link is natural linking a manual in the
Info form isn't natural to people who don't frequently use it, i.e.
Emacs- or generally GNU-users. 
 
> And second, the use case you describe sounds like a weak justification
> for such a significant change and future maintenance burden.  I'm
> interested to hear the opinions of the other maintainers.

Weak justification? To interact with users outside of users who don't
frequently use Info? Linking the manual specific to the relevant topic
e.g. as mentioned to fix an issue in a autoconf script is a good thing
to expose users to these manuals. First because the burden to open them
is low and second because learning that there is worthwhile
documentation in Info could motivate them to open the Info reader of
their choice.

Please try to put yourself in the shoes of the target audience. I now
that for long time Emacs users even the current version of the command
isn't really relevant.

Regarding the maintenance burden: is there already code to parse a file
like htmlxref.cnf? The maintenace burden of using this format which
seems to be the intentional file to read for this should be very low.

>> > Proliferating use of HTML docs on the Web (as opposed to
>> > local Info manuals) is not a goal I'd like us to pursue.
>> >
>> I would like to link to Info manuals so they can be opened with Info but
>> there is no such a thing.
>
> When using Info for accessing the linked manual, there is: see above.

That is not a link. A link wouldb be an uri that can be recognized by
the OS and then handled. Yes most Emacs modes can understand the the
syntax e.g. when I write (info "(emacs) Entering Emacs") then Gnus
understands the format and will follow the reference correctly.

>> > In any case, if this is installed, the doc string of
>> > Info-goto-node-web should also be updated, as it no longer goes only
>> > to gnu.org Web server.  A NEWS entry is probably also warranted.
>> 
>> That does make sense. IMHO it is a little confusing that the function
>> refers to gnu.org when the server isn't the only one hosting Info manuals.
>
> The doc string is pertinent for the Emacs manuals, which are hosted on
> the gnu.org server.

The function isn't called Info-goto-node-web-emacs yes the default
setting is to open manuals on the gnu.org server but it doesn't have to be.