From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:41:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2025 09:47:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 75398 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 75398@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.17361567744470 (code B ref -1); Mon, 06 Jan 2025 09:47:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2025 09:46:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36723 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUjgc-0001A1-0U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 04:46:14 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:39970) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUjga-00019p-AS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 04:46:12 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tUjgU-0003Rd-MC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 04:46:06 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x535.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::535]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tUjgT-0002FL-8o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 04:46:06 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x535.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d84179ef26so673606a12.3 for ; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 01:46:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1736156763; x=1736761563; darn=gnu.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:from:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mv0UphLnIG9RUUTawvMB1Rs5sXkXwBeQPkrGiz81Lt4=; b=LWjm+HmmN4vzBSd9Cj+EL6BMJmXy3IOQ6qG/oFShRDWd/tZgBDRFpMu9uMeUb01RbE Bwf0lWp3JuiQllPNtXOcNRjVvJxuogziQ2ab3CEB8o0/7ympsSv9CL2qO9+bN2gXXdUT T2Bsb7y130xPPWE1XwMpdMvjgRK9fYxfaNxSI7aHTkrhObKcIBvDuHr7E8MkJALmjsGQ DvSH4l0TvlY6vdFpqCJJMgZwHSG+S7i1Kqwuswg3jGL6APBgF0UaEVsrflRfl8jqclzz pem1hmlpmpB34d43ev092eWZePiT3Dg5ItmO5GvRigUO5WlVnPUWBFHrQfH36QZCGg/A 0nxw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1736156763; x=1736761563; h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:from:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mv0UphLnIG9RUUTawvMB1Rs5sXkXwBeQPkrGiz81Lt4=; b=WpgZTWfuw1jzxQqo8c27QtXECQ5b6KcMn5ySwp1v8YQB67xxwzsiQL1MlzvS2W+JMF QezXrXCQrFTVuiZezl4hXiFxE5vxKkQV+LvX/2+KXCJAD1eT4XR2C+GL3jxP7PcUSlfK Muak0LWKEfK0HRxXF4kA/2K/2qZfLcFmCalOxtAzdXN01wqg/Iqu9QTVAy1/PG6AaoLg lTW4lixHyW3gRPKNBJWPoLyJYhIZJ1Y8grKGPjEd+OVuN3+JtuayVIZBBBUG5g5HLpWh HelJ2J/5XvMdOLTDDJoQT39GwcM90KUE5e+3QgZaMV3ecEq8R4PgYTWDVYcFFmHblrFD D5zA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw3a2Joc2m/4PwPj6ECN8nIICxcW0SJTG1WEuBSQIvmABRGjgd6 KmWyn3o42jKxzsFMD4p5AZos3nEEFFl2V/yHtgI8UJPZJHtvVCnPeengDtPaiQ6Jk/NusUW03cn CyLIjLB+CghOaiOj3dS1cJh9vObmBsg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctOCuZFRYxTWzAEPp9CaByqY+CMlW6+l+GvuuDzqrI6Z1dasyi9h/w3k+pUl2p fflaF0KBRhl1LqoscmcuSPMVclKm6mpMK3t0jMbxG X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGuUarnS8oba7RHTjgFPuVeu8/nILhj91BIPav4RzSJWaYIEDF6pl6q3/01Xi1JFyB0puSdHDra9U53JywbWbc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:3585:b0:5d0:ea2a:726c with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d81dd8faaamr49257174a12.8.1736156762821; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 01:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::535; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x535.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Severity: wishlist In files.el, I read this: ;;; Commentary: ;; Defines most of Emacs's file- and directory-handling functions, ;; including basic file visiting, backup generation, link handling, ;; ITS-id version control, load- and write-hook handling, and the like. I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...? In any case, I think that part should either be deleted or clarified. From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:41:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2025 14:36:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75398 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas , Richard Stallman Cc: 75398@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 75398-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75398.173617411729554 (code B ref 75398); Mon, 06 Jan 2025 14:36:03 +0000 Received: (at 75398) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2025 14:35:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37459 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUoCL-0007fk-4L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 09:35:17 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::10] (port=54192 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUoCF-0007bo-KZ for 75398@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 09:35:13 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tUoBy-0003kr-Cl; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 09:34:55 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=GBCI4FTWLEAkt2rB2IVnmExDaJuVqDPnXoURqtTNLG0=; b=baO2DOTzx8pw Qq34uEZmebeCV/NrC12qdvZH7/jBWT1bTEE7oNZYKYGa5TAeQa9mHXrykhmJSjJ7BrIa8Ur3rTbqW J+Q3STXFpJFcB1CQHu4r2NgHzt7uVRsnpj/KL/oXkI/ZjZ/lxRkw5nx2VWeNwOqmTqTQbHo4MkyIj tnvuIIrPo9PFhfxK+v+QrAvLYOK+Z3BksmIb9L6iCVSMZfn5kO6JdJyUXRKe7jtFHcAVyNQlaOZJa 1Fy+YcikYoAU5o0WSaLMFOCc1mvhmSQeCGeklqY3xde2hRHu15IDzr5hv0hCmKgZAi8wuIfxNyX3l DgF8SfxOA+wVMeWToWBZJg==; Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2025 16:34:22 +0200 Message-Id: <86jzb857v5.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000) References: X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000 > > Severity: wishlist > > In files.el, I read this: > > ;;; Commentary: > > ;; Defines most of Emacs's file- and directory-handling functions, > ;; including basic file visiting, backup generation, link handling, > ;; ITS-id version control, load- and write-hook handling, and the like. > > I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than > VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the > manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it > possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...? Yes, I think ITS was the system which introduced numbered backup files. Maybe someone else (Richard?) could confirm. This commentary was added by Eric Raymond in March 1993. From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:41:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2025 17:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75398 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Richard Stallman Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , 75398@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 75398-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75398.173618373730714 (code B ref 75398); Mon, 06 Jan 2025 17:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 75398) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2025 17:15:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39866 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUqhV-0007zK-72 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 12:15:37 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]:42472) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUqhR-0007z3-4u for 75398@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 12:15:35 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d3dce16a3dso25933542a12.1 for <75398@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 09:15:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1736183727; x=1736788527; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=PwzoR4X6ENcj0WGySMZvqPxhrq7t7IuyBBumaTpIePo=; b=B5Wic8JeuucYswa1c5EM6w0Ipbtsiviea+jDff49Ls+Yu+t4upWetGBXCbGr8Ksjfx kKCwl7QMfl2g9TF+0d13dIqvkc1i5UOyiKTk2hYWgTFD/xvQpN7HD/ggTQdyQtBObVr1 HS2cm6A+sFEBF8+WauolcBy6ebKUAM6iuqZ/mHlpWzsL3Zrp/eVeq+e0BKz9suyB3v7K /VqvyWLcOxnyjolQPL5FeBZYikuKUQobzp/7ZMa7wweuPLojDcV0gFFnjFqpoKHKrGCc iYZ0gvGKWG0hbBWo8TXqMxlULNiOkYjKjDyy2yGeUOMBaUYXIp40JTyPWVt2Ots7tePU 0HAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1736183727; x=1736788527; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=PwzoR4X6ENcj0WGySMZvqPxhrq7t7IuyBBumaTpIePo=; b=b7t8EIe8E9zgWNoTYRzSz1hx9okyZtHrYQ1pO9hDg5DLb3dBWYpfn486V/yuI27AUA wlskFZlpMf+ToN5TCQttcUjXbQY8vSSNCfiiLt8gAFlmuC23H/dHjs0wzO8I0Ff/FgSh gB1HeSeV9MGqTxUp/IcFbQZFr/a4GcGq8WWMJ0VrjlxS3dG2F9Qewo0mX8EWduhbCdpa leoWJebwTJrJquaNFYT9d9fwAHAaBjCPKTA3TZK59i7vS4jWpgXTa2qvCOetTA4RfR/N CEMeXIyAJKlaDtTPneQCB5kzL5CFBNbxXaYz2gc72SMZJgwfsM82JTIq92WeYQ0cxzd/ /J9g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwNNzUUruHSPfT325ORxtryhD6oYESd3fOlYea1e0IGFIEAi/EW qPN2KCgUvH5ugKlsX+8/dfHslY5Ag8fMD+KhYmKbat+aivkc/TfDKrc1CUcoNAP60tPwg1/hQOp GfCr4UZ8PyhmHnsov+KEN/XO4mp/1IQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsFVEFfkAUWotDDWkEmI2wXp4GEE3iWBcb3EmfgHd7BufxmyXiKGPcJXEfxeUu cI0LuyYFnscIxAW0D/1tpH+s3AN3t9aY+UkXk97PK X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IESD8HsQ8sXXby6syuAFaOpKLhPTkaaabZ0HgIZUEqgvbi37bPYV5F1mgkLK7VBYmHwIoItrnwNH5bBkieGQho= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:2408:b0:5d0:b61a:89c9 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d95e8d4135mr94684a12.5.1736183726726; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 09:15:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 6 Jan 2025 11:15:26 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <86jzb857v5.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86jzb857v5.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 11:15:26 -0600 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Stefan Kangas >> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000 >> >> Severity: wishlist >> >> In files.el, I read this: >> >> ;;; Commentary: >> >> ;; Defines most of Emacs's file- and directory-handling functions, >> ;; including basic file visiting, backup generation, link handling, >> ;; ITS-id version control, load- and write-hook handling, and the like. >> >> I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than >> VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the >> manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it >> possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...? > > Yes, I think ITS was the system which introduced numbered backup > files. Maybe someone else (Richard?) could confirm. > > This commentary was added by Eric Raymond in March 1993. The question is how do we update this comment to be relevant in 2025. From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:41:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2025 18:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75398 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, rms@gnu.org, 75398@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 75398-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75398.173618830012911 (code B ref 75398); Mon, 06 Jan 2025 18:32:02 +0000 Received: (at 75398) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2025 18:31:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40043 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUrt6-0003MB-AN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 13:31:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52900) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUrt4-0003Lg-3j for 75398@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 13:31:39 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tUrsx-0002hL-9y; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 13:31:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=b7Rdax46y/OredAZUojYGsLnDQSOmF5h9J+2HCPanXw=; b=Vm8Nli8PKgrD 7xPNs3SrRq4kjpHmQAiJ9Sgw17X0i5btESlKzTyoopMsf5rZo/noxJ4HwmhicM1kXPKCUhJySPGGA 9JCJWLlTSbStNHVUmeZE6msespoCgffyF+b/dyIx/R+pq0FqOuuYFief1YkPKBGGFUS0u5BOmk10S eDXTHRpYG/aH9QTY8ndbeourtFTpn69mFvOFHJxRH9OK3EtzDf223yarjYljyOBWQ//C+c8l2bLRQ oAuppi7MewNvGt9/13ZB7fsN7YU1GMOoKfcfFsjX6hgmc6bAyqdHpq0LqcHxEWBwCmY1YQbiEFQiF Ru40bL4mVjcA5+3K0xO4kA==; Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2025 20:31:17 +0200 Message-Id: <86frlv6bgq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Mon, 6 Jan 2025 11:15:26 -0600) References: <86jzb857v5.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 11:15:26 -0600 > Cc: 75398@debbugs.gnu.org, "Eric S. Raymond" > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> From: Stefan Kangas > >> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000 > >> > >> Severity: wishlist > >> > >> In files.el, I read this: > >> > >> ;;; Commentary: > >> > >> ;; Defines most of Emacs's file- and directory-handling functions, > >> ;; including basic file visiting, backup generation, link handling, > >> ;; ITS-id version control, load- and write-hook handling, and the like. > >> > >> I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than > >> VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the > >> manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it > >> possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...? > > > > Yes, I think ITS was the system which introduced numbered backup > > files. Maybe someone else (Richard?) could confirm. > > > > This commentary was added by Eric Raymond in March 1993. > > The question is how do we update this comment to be relevant in 2025. I'd replace "ITS-id version control" with "version control for numbered backup files". From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:41:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2025 05:11:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75398 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 75398@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 75398-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75398.173622665532334 (code B ref 75398); Tue, 07 Jan 2025 05:11:02 +0000 Received: (at 75398) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2025 05:10:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41433 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tV1rj-0008PR-5Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45770) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tV1rd-0008PA-Sz for 75398@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:53 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tV1rY-0000sH-DT; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:44 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=PkzkJwXGTm36UoJfi6UWJbx/10Tef/Flol3omUHr7dU=; b=QETIn8qp001Y ceyDpEw+RrR2Q7Th5m5YhVHchpx1oozkymQ1B4JUVeLTmNZclZ8OagikicLOzfEjhlI5mNMf430B4 JAvpdPLa2O8X+Hhw7lJ9XKwdFVfPgSVQ/iOnFcD9lL+K+kMcKn+e7TkxACWZbigVFk5Z1xz8Mywsl qFU5+t7CkWcOGQjXq5mIybjfjI4hoadX4B8iNG7V21IJrwfRYxvYj/Jp0YBDh5f+MbKgwohoNr6GV W11Jf2g2h9G4ocIFzbPp8UrKIfxRePW41jO7RBg9v1eiIKe+xkNsEAzH6VAWk22uAO8yPPEhU+LJ+ Pn84+5nNj0qAOhbBaqDPMw==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tV1rX-0005dC-9a; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:43 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000) References: Message-Id: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:43 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than > VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the > manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it > possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...? It might. Some of this code may have been translated from TECO in 1984/5. But I can't recall what it that term might refer to. On ITS, the only place to store a version number was (1) in the second filename or (2) in the file contents. When that text was written, was there code in Emacs to store a version number in one of those places? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:41:52 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Stefan Kangas Subject: bug#75398: closed (Re: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control) Message-ID: References: X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 75398 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 75398@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2025 05:25:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1736227502-2229-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1736227502-2229-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 75398@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 75398: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D75398 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1736227502-2229-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 75398-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2025 05:24:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41450 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tV24Q-0000YJ-3Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:24:06 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]:44428) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tV24L-0000Xc-4D for 75398-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:24:01 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d3bdccba49so27863069a12.1 for <75398-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 21:23:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1736227431; x=1736832231; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Su1z3vow0toJs4ZhO1WM8g0cG7y718SAVdhW/5akEDk=; b=AUsoRcMlcLjG7iRlEjo9dqaA4qAaqFywRDr/cGKRCRaYPW0cs11UuoRSuHQ1dZH9NG Ox4o+ttQPoAOo88txfuYeU0gFoYM0awM9d4qRTFKdbHGBfmkiKvLDm81YGxVOwntywS+ 7TqujPVXzh5dVkngjbH2X/79Ks7xyrjHL602lnBTCxKx6Hyj5AVsjU6MvoWWroN7mGO+ Dl+u4R48r87Fci+C/mpI4b03ypFm5L0AjozihMxDyFJrfinYgqAIThuqUk27MZBHGHo8 SbiI6rBuuip+J25rpgyPtC/evc73NOKuS+B5qkTVP3opV1KoxthBCjbXonXBHZrvHqFK Fzcg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1736227431; x=1736832231; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Su1z3vow0toJs4ZhO1WM8g0cG7y718SAVdhW/5akEDk=; b=DmtesDtcay1KaGx56WwBafRZ+oPyDXKvU6DaDN6GAyGWo6hSi3yYkxBdgAjx1k/zgZ PZamXBF9jzirvl5wbu0Fopp5bLjXJsUgasU3Yreqo+sdVGtwNq8ssCqghzIhhSC8POHL 3J5ioz8BMXGnkeLyZyDszAEopbSGQikIbOSWk9UqlHJueCx0oSf0/bSOq4GrjWsZ9IMs C+gOXXOuMgmigWzWw7133L5YMXCZlg3uAUp7DWEwbVceIhJa6Cv2FhMkLbQed24BO06L H5OgJ07ThTOmRFog1OKqp9P9hYtg7wlulk0zmrrhALfRiN35B6HKXSQzln3Bx+PcAoDb PURQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUH9HeHGIEVVj1rMtTBW3lLYbU+K9+r1izp7PJieIjgQCLK+0pVTKxqx9CgXRFVnOSuirIpBo06HDzw@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz6FrUEHHdpCLTuxEH5NIhmNdVnYNdl8NarzrEz2kINkjdG7ZMI JjI1swv2/yKD/sBVGmxhqp9Ty7M9w7M0zc1Mw0Wyowfs6YWVao5N7GFPkTWQQEKOpHCWKfyUb70 e7E74mVWo54qepXVaHlyxe1wpsd4= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuaKQqbn8Q1Ym8IZXsTzbpfYbEhU6LzLxQIkI9Lswy0bwlfTeMkfSMSUdPtLVH p9HngPw4IcAFeOmxgwv/zA3Gvi74oBS1jSyHRN80= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGQADS+71glDZs3LPIalR/vgUg7y1A6Z+uPV+lWM3whEWmkEp36+dpdBcNSganVTeHUmerX7/lo82udOd8wgKU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:2689:b0:5cf:b079:68ef with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d81de1645dmr50998347a12.26.1736227430603; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 21:23:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 6 Jan 2025 23:23:50 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <86frlv6bgq.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86jzb857v5.fsf@gnu.org> <86frlv6bgq.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 23:23:50 -0600 X-Gm-Features: AbW1kvYoCEEHVZulkHaS0HixGAB6vHbheRPsTkXkBovxVrDzUkHMmJdbwzbtXIU Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 75398-done Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, 75398-done@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> The question is how do we update this comment to be relevant in 2025. > > I'd replace "ITS-id version control" with "version control for > numbered backup files". Thanks, I opted to fix it in a different way, see commit 1c49edc4080. Feel free to tweak that. Meanwhile, I'm closing this bug. 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I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...? In any case, I think that part should either be deleted or clarified. ------------=_1736227502-2229-1-- From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:41:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2025 12:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75398 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org, esr@thyrsus.com Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, 75398@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 75398-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75398.173625288817733 (code B ref 75398); Tue, 07 Jan 2025 12:29:02 +0000 Received: (at 75398) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2025 12:28:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42000 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tV8gp-0004bx-O4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 07:28:08 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45424) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tV8gn-0004bP-Ss for 75398@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 07:28:06 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tV8gi-0002WR-7m; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 07:28:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=lxqKLR/XxXQCg+f+7P20Vx4nXjvNqQideuN3nMgf2uY=; b=Uubrf+hE5fWa ysMXs/SEFTJU7iH1x8hVIwQ7P2ipFHwIz0p2voH2YRJ5icWn8bUMjyCYsqUwX4T7YeV/e3hnV1wSE BuoJd42ahaF/t26jaroiWCmS/uGHL2K1hfNaKLsbzTDcGfza7jWwMMOP6OffhofkTBeQ/bLgzJ41M OnW6SEppDoWobucQ5MrTOBxfxwNAvkMxBAiYFgJRQ8vL9csVco33nPgZCI51cYNRfZAkExCZzMLDK C9iwTfG7HRSkqSIwdJmjfq5AJmlVffjuG2LGtgIUG5fgBVQ+MrbY6moz/qbqWrUHNr/bzG3AtHa87 ngnlvgw8nfkS84jXyRj0BA==; Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2025 14:27:49 +0200 Message-Id: <86zfk24xmi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:43 -0500) References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 75398@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:43 -0500 > > On ITS, the only place to store a version number was (1) in the second > filename or (2) in the file contents. When that text was written, was > there code in Emacs to store a version number in one of those places? Doesn't look like it, I only see the ".~N~" numerical extensions. You should be able to see the version of files.el at that commit with this shell command: $ git show e41b2db1da153e3ead4a01cb6e729cb99cad78ae:lisp/files.el Maybe Eric simply had ITS in mind when wrote the commentary, though. From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:41:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2025 03:23:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 75398 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, stefankangas@gmail.com, 75398@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 75398-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B75398.173647937527420 (code B ref 75398); Fri, 10 Jan 2025 03:23:02 +0000 Received: (at 75398) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2025 03:22:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55950 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tW5bq-00078C-Mk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2025 22:22:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38034) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tW5bn-00077u-UF for 75398@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2025 22:22:52 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tW5bi-0005RQ-5V; Thu, 09 Jan 2025 22:22:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=WB5o8M8QCQfongI1Ly6c9PM385G/HPEciPnwbHmqoh0=; b=G38DHwE4woTC XDcZNR5KaH8kbUjs6rfql5sUOG4wkAb1zn/jqhBRt43pEdcBqwWItWSOihHjJHVtojCiz1AHylwlk SSVFXdGYpYp12p3nb/Fxg8oalFdpXnFOzAjuwdTB/GsvVjY7Vbq3wgaT0ps6SATplnGvYPGdSUr6g fTAvDyG+ftWYpWpgyEG60Lt55VEso9QWN8w4qKLXplKxuEvoAydAWV+bsVYv8VJ6BIKK2/S8+1IRn xx++0EWiTFA2McUcCFkPfxsuMSAMOxspw/hCnNQPGq7vEhgHkjEN9i8IRL9KYvdKqhkOVK7DO+3rW 4KgCnsqVj6iyortGarVpHg==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tW5bh-0002Cj-76; Thu, 09 Jan 2025 22:22:45 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <86zfk24xmi.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Tue, 07 Jan 2025 14:27:49 +0200) References: <86zfk24xmi.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2025 22:22:45 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > On ITS, the only place to store a version number was (1) in the second > > filename or (2) in the file contents. When that text was written, was > > there code in Emacs to store a version number in one of those places? > Doesn't look like it, I only see the ".~N~" numerical extensions. That practice for naming backup files looked partly similar to the ITS convention of using a version number as the second filename. But the semantics was different. I don't think the reference to ITS is very illuminating in the context of GNU Emacs. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)