From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 06 04:46:14 2025 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2025 09:46:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36723 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUjgc-0001A1-0U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 04:46:14 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:39970) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUjga-00019p-AS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 04:46:12 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tUjgU-0003Rd-MC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 04:46:06 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x535.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::535]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tUjgT-0002FL-8o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 04:46:06 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x535.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d84179ef26so673606a12.3 for ; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 01:46:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1736156763; x=1736761563; darn=gnu.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:from:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mv0UphLnIG9RUUTawvMB1Rs5sXkXwBeQPkrGiz81Lt4=; b=LWjm+HmmN4vzBSd9Cj+EL6BMJmXy3IOQ6qG/oFShRDWd/tZgBDRFpMu9uMeUb01RbE Bwf0lWp3JuiQllPNtXOcNRjVvJxuogziQ2ab3CEB8o0/7ympsSv9CL2qO9+bN2gXXdUT T2Bsb7y130xPPWE1XwMpdMvjgRK9fYxfaNxSI7aHTkrhObKcIBvDuHr7E8MkJALmjsGQ DvSH4l0TvlY6vdFpqCJJMgZwHSG+S7i1Kqwuswg3jGL6APBgF0UaEVsrflRfl8jqclzz pem1hmlpmpB34d43ev092eWZePiT3Dg5ItmO5GvRigUO5WlVnPUWBFHrQfH36QZCGg/A 0nxw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1736156763; x=1736761563; h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:from:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mv0UphLnIG9RUUTawvMB1Rs5sXkXwBeQPkrGiz81Lt4=; b=WpgZTWfuw1jzxQqo8c27QtXECQ5b6KcMn5ySwp1v8YQB67xxwzsiQL1MlzvS2W+JMF QezXrXCQrFTVuiZezl4hXiFxE5vxKkQV+LvX/2+KXCJAD1eT4XR2C+GL3jxP7PcUSlfK Muak0LWKEfK0HRxXF4kA/2K/2qZfLcFmCalOxtAzdXN01wqg/Iqu9QTVAy1/PG6AaoLg lTW4lixHyW3gRPKNBJWPoLyJYhIZJ1Y8grKGPjEd+OVuN3+JtuayVIZBBBUG5g5HLpWh HelJ2J/5XvMdOLTDDJoQT39GwcM90KUE5e+3QgZaMV3ecEq8R4PgYTWDVYcFFmHblrFD D5zA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw3a2Joc2m/4PwPj6ECN8nIICxcW0SJTG1WEuBSQIvmABRGjgd6 KmWyn3o42jKxzsFMD4p5AZos3nEEFFl2V/yHtgI8UJPZJHtvVCnPeengDtPaiQ6Jk/NusUW03cn CyLIjLB+CghOaiOj3dS1cJh9vObmBsg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctOCuZFRYxTWzAEPp9CaByqY+CMlW6+l+GvuuDzqrI6Z1dasyi9h/w3k+pUl2p fflaF0KBRhl1LqoscmcuSPMVclKm6mpMK3t0jMbxG X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGuUarnS8oba7RHTjgFPuVeu8/nILhj91BIPav4RzSJWaYIEDF6pl6q3/01Xi1JFyB0puSdHDra9U53JywbWbc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:3585:b0:5d0:ea2a:726c with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d81dd8faaamr49257174a12.8.1736156762821; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 01:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::535; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x535.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Severity: wishlist In files.el, I read this: ;;; Commentary: ;; Defines most of Emacs's file- and directory-handling functions, ;; including basic file visiting, backup generation, link handling, ;; ITS-id version control, load- and write-hook handling, and the like. I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...? In any case, I think that part should either be deleted or clarified. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 06 09:35:17 2025 Received: (at 75398) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2025 14:35:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37459 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUoCL-0007fk-4L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 09:35:17 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::10] (port=54192 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUoCF-0007bo-KZ for 75398@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 09:35:13 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tUoBy-0003kr-Cl; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 09:34:55 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=GBCI4FTWLEAkt2rB2IVnmExDaJuVqDPnXoURqtTNLG0=; b=baO2DOTzx8pw Qq34uEZmebeCV/NrC12qdvZH7/jBWT1bTEE7oNZYKYGa5TAeQa9mHXrykhmJSjJ7BrIa8Ur3rTbqW J+Q3STXFpJFcB1CQHu4r2NgHzt7uVRsnpj/KL/oXkI/ZjZ/lxRkw5nx2VWeNwOqmTqTQbHo4MkyIj tnvuIIrPo9PFhfxK+v+QrAvLYOK+Z3BksmIb9L6iCVSMZfn5kO6JdJyUXRKe7jtFHcAVyNQlaOZJa 1Fy+YcikYoAU5o0WSaLMFOCc1mvhmSQeCGeklqY3xde2hRHu15IDzr5hv0hCmKgZAi8wuIfxNyX3l DgF8SfxOA+wVMeWToWBZJg==; Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2025 16:34:22 +0200 Message-Id: <86jzb857v5.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas , Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control References: X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 75398 Cc: 75398@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000 > > Severity: wishlist > > In files.el, I read this: > > ;;; Commentary: > > ;; Defines most of Emacs's file- and directory-handling functions, > ;; including basic file visiting, backup generation, link handling, > ;; ITS-id version control, load- and write-hook handling, and the like. > > I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than > VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the > manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it > possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...? Yes, I think ITS was the system which introduced numbered backup files. Maybe someone else (Richard?) could confirm. This commentary was added by Eric Raymond in March 1993. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 06 12:15:37 2025 Received: (at 75398) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2025 17:15:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39866 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUqhV-0007zK-72 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 12:15:37 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]:42472) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUqhR-0007z3-4u for 75398@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 12:15:35 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d3dce16a3dso25933542a12.1 for <75398@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 09:15:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1736183727; x=1736788527; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=PwzoR4X6ENcj0WGySMZvqPxhrq7t7IuyBBumaTpIePo=; b=B5Wic8JeuucYswa1c5EM6w0Ipbtsiviea+jDff49Ls+Yu+t4upWetGBXCbGr8Ksjfx kKCwl7QMfl2g9TF+0d13dIqvkc1i5UOyiKTk2hYWgTFD/xvQpN7HD/ggTQdyQtBObVr1 HS2cm6A+sFEBF8+WauolcBy6ebKUAM6iuqZ/mHlpWzsL3Zrp/eVeq+e0BKz9suyB3v7K /VqvyWLcOxnyjolQPL5FeBZYikuKUQobzp/7ZMa7wweuPLojDcV0gFFnjFqpoKHKrGCc iYZ0gvGKWG0hbBWo8TXqMxlULNiOkYjKjDyy2yGeUOMBaUYXIp40JTyPWVt2Ots7tePU 0HAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1736183727; x=1736788527; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=PwzoR4X6ENcj0WGySMZvqPxhrq7t7IuyBBumaTpIePo=; b=b7t8EIe8E9zgWNoTYRzSz1hx9okyZtHrYQ1pO9hDg5DLb3dBWYpfn486V/yuI27AUA wlskFZlpMf+ToN5TCQttcUjXbQY8vSSNCfiiLt8gAFlmuC23H/dHjs0wzO8I0Ff/FgSh gB1HeSeV9MGqTxUp/IcFbQZFr/a4GcGq8WWMJ0VrjlxS3dG2F9Qewo0mX8EWduhbCdpa leoWJebwTJrJquaNFYT9d9fwAHAaBjCPKTA3TZK59i7vS4jWpgXTa2qvCOetTA4RfR/N CEMeXIyAJKlaDtTPneQCB5kzL5CFBNbxXaYz2gc72SMZJgwfsM82JTIq92WeYQ0cxzd/ /J9g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwNNzUUruHSPfT325ORxtryhD6oYESd3fOlYea1e0IGFIEAi/EW qPN2KCgUvH5ugKlsX+8/dfHslY5Ag8fMD+KhYmKbat+aivkc/TfDKrc1CUcoNAP60tPwg1/hQOp GfCr4UZ8PyhmHnsov+KEN/XO4mp/1IQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsFVEFfkAUWotDDWkEmI2wXp4GEE3iWBcb3EmfgHd7BufxmyXiKGPcJXEfxeUu cI0LuyYFnscIxAW0D/1tpH+s3AN3t9aY+UkXk97PK X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IESD8HsQ8sXXby6syuAFaOpKLhPTkaaabZ0HgIZUEqgvbi37bPYV5F1mgkLK7VBYmHwIoItrnwNH5bBkieGQho= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:2408:b0:5d0:b61a:89c9 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d95e8d4135mr94684a12.5.1736183726726; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 09:15:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 6 Jan 2025 11:15:26 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <86jzb857v5.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86jzb857v5.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 11:15:26 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control To: Eli Zaretskii , Richard Stallman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 75398 Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , 75398@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Stefan Kangas >> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000 >> >> Severity: wishlist >> >> In files.el, I read this: >> >> ;;; Commentary: >> >> ;; Defines most of Emacs's file- and directory-handling functions, >> ;; including basic file visiting, backup generation, link handling, >> ;; ITS-id version control, load- and write-hook handling, and the like. >> >> I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than >> VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the >> manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it >> possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...? > > Yes, I think ITS was the system which introduced numbered backup > files. Maybe someone else (Richard?) could confirm. > > This commentary was added by Eric Raymond in March 1993. The question is how do we update this comment to be relevant in 2025. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 06 13:31:40 2025 Received: (at 75398) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jan 2025 18:31:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40043 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUrt6-0003MB-AN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 13:31:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52900) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tUrt4-0003Lg-3j for 75398@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 13:31:39 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tUrsx-0002hL-9y; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 13:31:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=b7Rdax46y/OredAZUojYGsLnDQSOmF5h9J+2HCPanXw=; b=Vm8Nli8PKgrD 7xPNs3SrRq4kjpHmQAiJ9Sgw17X0i5btESlKzTyoopMsf5rZo/noxJ4HwmhicM1kXPKCUhJySPGGA 9JCJWLlTSbStNHVUmeZE6msespoCgffyF+b/dyIx/R+pq0FqOuuYFief1YkPKBGGFUS0u5BOmk10S eDXTHRpYG/aH9QTY8ndbeourtFTpn69mFvOFHJxRH9OK3EtzDf223yarjYljyOBWQ//C+c8l2bLRQ oAuppi7MewNvGt9/13ZB7fsN7YU1GMOoKfcfFsjX6hgmc6bAyqdHpq0LqcHxEWBwCmY1YQbiEFQiF Ru40bL4mVjcA5+3K0xO4kA==; Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2025 20:31:17 +0200 Message-Id: <86frlv6bgq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Mon, 6 Jan 2025 11:15:26 -0600) Subject: Re: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control References: <86jzb857v5.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 75398 Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, rms@gnu.org, 75398@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 11:15:26 -0600 > Cc: 75398@debbugs.gnu.org, "Eric S. Raymond" > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> From: Stefan Kangas > >> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000 > >> > >> Severity: wishlist > >> > >> In files.el, I read this: > >> > >> ;;; Commentary: > >> > >> ;; Defines most of Emacs's file- and directory-handling functions, > >> ;; including basic file visiting, backup generation, link handling, > >> ;; ITS-id version control, load- and write-hook handling, and the like. > >> > >> I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than > >> VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the > >> manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it > >> possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...? > > > > Yes, I think ITS was the system which introduced numbered backup > > files. Maybe someone else (Richard?) could confirm. > > > > This commentary was added by Eric Raymond in March 1993. > > The question is how do we update this comment to be relevant in 2025. I'd replace "ITS-id version control" with "version control for numbered backup files". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 07 00:10:55 2025 Received: (at 75398) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2025 05:10:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41433 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tV1rj-0008PR-5Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45770) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tV1rd-0008PA-Sz for 75398@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:53 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tV1rY-0000sH-DT; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:44 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=PkzkJwXGTm36UoJfi6UWJbx/10Tef/Flol3omUHr7dU=; b=QETIn8qp001Y ceyDpEw+RrR2Q7Th5m5YhVHchpx1oozkymQ1B4JUVeLTmNZclZ8OagikicLOzfEjhlI5mNMf430B4 JAvpdPLa2O8X+Hhw7lJ9XKwdFVfPgSVQ/iOnFcD9lL+K+kMcKn+e7TkxACWZbigVFk5Z1xz8Mywsl qFU5+t7CkWcOGQjXq5mIybjfjI4hoadX4B8iNG7V21IJrwfRYxvYj/Jp0YBDh5f+MbKgwohoNr6GV W11Jf2g2h9G4ocIFzbPp8UrKIfxRePW41jO7RBg9v1eiIKe+xkNsEAzH6VAWk22uAO8yPPEhU+LJ+ Pn84+5nNj0qAOhbBaqDPMw==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tV1rX-0005dC-9a; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:43 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Mon, 6 Jan 2025 09:46:02 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control References: Message-Id: Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:43 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 75398 Cc: 75398@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I understand that "version control" refers to backup files rather than > VCS, but what is "ITS-id"? I can't find any references to that in the > manual, or by grepping, but since the text was written in 1993, is it > possible that it refers to "Incompatible Time-Sharing System"...? It might. Some of this code may have been translated from TECO in 1984/5. But I can't recall what it that term might refer to. On ITS, the only place to store a version number was (1) in the second filename or (2) in the file contents. When that text was written, was there code in Emacs to store a version number in one of those places? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 07 00:24:06 2025 Received: (at 75398-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2025 05:24:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41450 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tV24Q-0000YJ-3Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:24:06 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]:44428) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tV24L-0000Xc-4D for 75398-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:24:01 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d3bdccba49so27863069a12.1 for <75398-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 21:23:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1736227431; x=1736832231; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Su1z3vow0toJs4ZhO1WM8g0cG7y718SAVdhW/5akEDk=; b=AUsoRcMlcLjG7iRlEjo9dqaA4qAaqFywRDr/cGKRCRaYPW0cs11UuoRSuHQ1dZH9NG Ox4o+ttQPoAOo88txfuYeU0gFoYM0awM9d4qRTFKdbHGBfmkiKvLDm81YGxVOwntywS+ 7TqujPVXzh5dVkngjbH2X/79Ks7xyrjHL602lnBTCxKx6Hyj5AVsjU6MvoWWroN7mGO+ Dl+u4R48r87Fci+C/mpI4b03ypFm5L0AjozihMxDyFJrfinYgqAIThuqUk27MZBHGHo8 SbiI6rBuuip+J25rpgyPtC/evc73NOKuS+B5qkTVP3opV1KoxthBCjbXonXBHZrvHqFK Fzcg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1736227431; x=1736832231; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Su1z3vow0toJs4ZhO1WM8g0cG7y718SAVdhW/5akEDk=; b=DmtesDtcay1KaGx56WwBafRZ+oPyDXKvU6DaDN6GAyGWo6hSi3yYkxBdgAjx1k/zgZ PZamXBF9jzirvl5wbu0Fopp5bLjXJsUgasU3Yreqo+sdVGtwNq8ssCqghzIhhSC8POHL 3J5ioz8BMXGnkeLyZyDszAEopbSGQikIbOSWk9UqlHJueCx0oSf0/bSOq4GrjWsZ9IMs C+gOXXOuMgmigWzWw7133L5YMXCZlg3uAUp7DWEwbVceIhJa6Cv2FhMkLbQed24BO06L H5OgJ07ThTOmRFog1OKqp9P9hYtg7wlulk0zmrrhALfRiN35B6HKXSQzln3Bx+PcAoDb PURQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUH9HeHGIEVVj1rMtTBW3lLYbU+K9+r1izp7PJieIjgQCLK+0pVTKxqx9CgXRFVnOSuirIpBo06HDzw@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz6FrUEHHdpCLTuxEH5NIhmNdVnYNdl8NarzrEz2kINkjdG7ZMI JjI1swv2/yKD/sBVGmxhqp9Ty7M9w7M0zc1Mw0Wyowfs6YWVao5N7GFPkTWQQEKOpHCWKfyUb70 e7E74mVWo54qepXVaHlyxe1wpsd4= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuaKQqbn8Q1Ym8IZXsTzbpfYbEhU6LzLxQIkI9Lswy0bwlfTeMkfSMSUdPtLVH p9HngPw4IcAFeOmxgwv/zA3Gvi74oBS1jSyHRN80= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGQADS+71glDZs3LPIalR/vgUg7y1A6Z+uPV+lWM3whEWmkEp36+dpdBcNSganVTeHUmerX7/lo82udOd8wgKU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:2689:b0:5cf:b079:68ef with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d81de1645dmr50998347a12.26.1736227430603; Mon, 06 Jan 2025 21:23:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 6 Jan 2025 23:23:50 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <86frlv6bgq.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86jzb857v5.fsf@gnu.org> <86frlv6bgq.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2025 23:23:50 -0600 X-Gm-Features: AbW1kvYoCEEHVZulkHaS0HixGAB6vHbheRPsTkXkBovxVrDzUkHMmJdbwzbtXIU Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 75398-done Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, 75398-done@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> The question is how do we update this comment to be relevant in 2025. > > I'd replace "ITS-id version control" with "version control for > numbered backup files". Thanks, I opted to fix it in a different way, see commit 1c49edc4080. Feel free to tweak that. Meanwhile, I'm closing this bug. (It's still possible to reply to this bug report for another 90 days.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 07 07:28:08 2025 Received: (at 75398) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jan 2025 12:28:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42000 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tV8gp-0004bx-O4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 07:28:08 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45424) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tV8gn-0004bP-Ss for 75398@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 07:28:06 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tV8gi-0002WR-7m; Tue, 07 Jan 2025 07:28:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=lxqKLR/XxXQCg+f+7P20Vx4nXjvNqQideuN3nMgf2uY=; b=Uubrf+hE5fWa ysMXs/SEFTJU7iH1x8hVIwQ7P2ipFHwIz0p2voH2YRJ5icWn8bUMjyCYsqUwX4T7YeV/e3hnV1wSE BuoJd42ahaF/t26jaroiWCmS/uGHL2K1hfNaKLsbzTDcGfza7jWwMMOP6OffhofkTBeQ/bLgzJ41M OnW6SEppDoWobucQ5MrTOBxfxwNAvkMxBAiYFgJRQ8vL9csVco33nPgZCI51cYNRfZAkExCZzMLDK C9iwTfG7HRSkqSIwdJmjfq5AJmlVffjuG2LGtgIUG5fgBVQ+MrbY6moz/qbqWrUHNr/bzG3AtHa87 ngnlvgw8nfkS84jXyRj0BA==; Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2025 14:27:49 +0200 Message-Id: <86zfk24xmi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: rms@gnu.org, esr@thyrsus.com In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:43 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 75398 Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, 75398@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 75398@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2025 00:10:43 -0500 > > On ITS, the only place to store a version number was (1) in the second > filename or (2) in the file contents. When that text was written, was > there code in Emacs to store a version number in one of those places? Doesn't look like it, I only see the ".~N~" numerical extensions. You should be able to see the version of files.el at that commit with this shell command: $ git show e41b2db1da153e3ead4a01cb6e729cb99cad78ae:lisp/files.el Maybe Eric simply had ITS in mind when wrote the commentary, though. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 09 22:22:55 2025 Received: (at 75398) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2025 03:22:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55950 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tW5bq-00078C-Mk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2025 22:22:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38034) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tW5bn-00077u-UF for 75398@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2025 22:22:52 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tW5bi-0005RQ-5V; Thu, 09 Jan 2025 22:22:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=WB5o8M8QCQfongI1Ly6c9PM385G/HPEciPnwbHmqoh0=; b=G38DHwE4woTC XDcZNR5KaH8kbUjs6rfql5sUOG4wkAb1zn/jqhBRt43pEdcBqwWItWSOihHjJHVtojCiz1AHylwlk SSVFXdGYpYp12p3nb/Fxg8oalFdpXnFOzAjuwdTB/GsvVjY7Vbq3wgaT0ps6SATplnGvYPGdSUr6g fTAvDyG+ftWYpWpgyEG60Lt55VEso9QWN8w4qKLXplKxuEvoAydAWV+bsVYv8VJ6BIKK2/S8+1IRn xx++0EWiTFA2McUcCFkPfxsuMSAMOxspw/hCnNQPGq7vEhgHkjEN9i8IRL9KYvdKqhkOVK7DO+3rW 4KgCnsqVj6iyortGarVpHg==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tW5bh-0002Cj-76; Thu, 09 Jan 2025 22:22:45 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <86zfk24xmi.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Tue, 07 Jan 2025 14:27:49 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#75398: 30.0.93; files.el documentation refers to "ITS-id" version control References: <86zfk24xmi.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2025 22:22:45 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 75398 Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, stefankangas@gmail.com, 75398@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > On ITS, the only place to store a version number was (1) in the second > > filename or (2) in the file contents. When that text was written, was > > there code in Emacs to store a version number in one of those places? > Doesn't look like it, I only see the ".~N~" numerical extensions. That practice for naming backup files looked partly similar to the ITS convention of using a version number as the second filename. But the semantics was different. I don't think the reference to ITS is very illuminating in the context of GNU Emacs. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:19:48 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2025 12:24:23 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator