From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:49:20 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#75208: Please mention "date %D considered harmful" in manpage Resent-From: Tim Connors Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2024 18:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 75208 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 75208@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.173558339631964 (code B ref -1); Mon, 30 Dec 2024 18:30:03 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2024 18:29:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59927 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tSKWY-0008JN-LG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2024 13:29:56 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:55106) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tSFbA-0000lI-F7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:14:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tSFb9-0001RU-N5 for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:14:19 -0500 Received: from mail-pl1-f177.google.com ([209.85.214.177]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tSFb7-0002E9-Pz for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:14:19 -0500 Received: by mail-pl1-f177.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-2163bd70069so16816015ad.0 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2024 05:14:17 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1735564456; x=1736169256; h=mime-version:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=8ofp477CxoM4Yc3YAbs4/9Rx7DVTUkyv863XXn5CKDg=; b=wbJ8/Qy1G38Dy8CPcmPjIfvx55H5jmEAV4PSjwnWjaNuWxl7mtMZDLJfW55p+ihjUs w62pieAcGEGrwhpotYXf/P/4yeapPPUex6WCWwJ/mpHk5CFN7o4beiYq9HKLfHKC9SrP PYPvTfhEBNKCjuVD3VLPepfrBsGV324JbPkNv2ma4x7cn9ato5mWev2NCdgdb33aRWMQ 2KmI++MMS/o4/o7SUDH81ZdkfqtjshTSK5PeiSfdSPB5jBgctvpzlpFkIeKtNXqLfYVr xh2DnxCV9P776/l0i5vdhR7SPluXwcTjRz1sDGosenDRmk14eecQh78tnN6O8IWAizWd uQww== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxb09FNnzKYYX5inPPfsTrMO4iRhsYMt+w+SoY9unG5RgkfAcRG jiIs5Bq1fPYMU0fHfxgiuET3LMadXwSCJ/lVow0fmNt2m/E8eo+hAY85DgZr X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvlJ5oelqfazSOnDtp90Ks8p8HIZoDhTgHmnG/XiGYkuCxDALic9ujB/MnHLG7 d/l6hLMGSq8ddnIRctUmKFwBA/crg/INXoMhGmOZKwz3AbNkRsImPiDe5pH4/kNa5tdL2aadxEg INu7nOQBF1d30+fuvg8pUXnT/EAruTn8zIVhoP/TahX11MbiUha2EF5jDF+eqTRIPGN4JgAoVQA lECUI7vxvrHR0baRdMagn2rwyaARQGvYk00UI+tqQxoy9/WElSxTKaUcalEi5GsmOsGDCyJmp6J 7sgxwWlYDEQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEoZ2yDRgGgPwaineGA33i/WmZWifeKAEIeu8DTNeqzkgHEedaGDPlqIc0QTMgRysTmO1nlsg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:cf0e:b0:216:3dc5:1230 with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-219e6f13cb9mr565492035ad.42.1735564455762; Mon, 30 Dec 2024 05:14:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.rather.puzzling.org ([122.199.47.107]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 41be03b00d2f7-842dcaca43bsm17562691a12.66.2024.12.30.05.14.14 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 30 Dec 2024 05:14:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from dirac.rather.puzzling.org (dirac.rather.puzzling.org [192.168.1.17]) by smtp.rather.puzzling.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 840FD201FB for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2024 00:14:07 +1100 (AEDT) Received: by dirac.rather.puzzling.org (Postfix, from userid 738) id 5974720CDD; Tue, 31 Dec 2024 00:14:07 +1100 (AEDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dirac.rather.puzzling.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 505781FE14 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2024 00:14:07 +1100 (AEDT) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 00:14:07 +1100 (AEDT) From: Tim Connors Message-ID: <5130f14e-91e1-a3a1-b189-4cbdb9817e7e@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.214.177; envelope-from=tim.w.connors@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-f177.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.196, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 30 Dec 2024 13:29:50 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) America is the only country to use %m/%d/%y. Since American programmers seem to assume its a good format to use in their scripts (after all, the manpage states: "%D: date"), it would be a good idea if the man/infopage came with a big fat warning like: "%D is considered harmful because for the vast majority of people on the planet, it will be confusing to read for most of the year, but is completely ambiguous for the first 12 days of each month and could be interpreted as %d/%m/%y or %m/%d/%y -- most of the world have traditionally interpreted dates as %d/%m/%y, but most are moving to %Y/%m/%d which is unambiguously understood everywhere. Use something like `date --rfc-3339=date' or +%Y/%m/%d if you wish to uniquely identify a date, which has the bonus of sorting trivially". (There is a metric buttload of system software out there using date +%D, such as debian's checksecurity, that should never have been encouraged to assume that they could give the user a locale-ised date because of the existence of the nice handy "%D" shortcut; the mere existence of something that claims "%D: date" would lead you to assume it was safe and encouraged to use!) -- Tim Connors From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:49:20 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Tim Connors Subject: bug#75208: closed (Re: bug#75208: Please mention "date %D considered harmful" in manpage) Message-ID: References: <7bccf4cc-3181-44c7-9090-50c7b6215303@cs.ucla.edu> <5130f14e-91e1-a3a1-b189-4cbdb9817e7e@gmail.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 75208 X-Gnu-PR-Package: coreutils Reply-To: 75208@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2024 19:57:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1735588622-16678-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1735588622-16678-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #75208: Please mention "date %D considered harmful" in manpage which was filed against the coreutils package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 75208@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 75208: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D75208 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1735588622-16678-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 75208-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2024 19:56:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60126 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tSLsf-0004KR-06 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2024 14:56:49 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.66]:58346) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tSLsc-0004K4-3G for 75208-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2024 14:56:47 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F175E3C123864; Mon, 30 Dec 2024 11:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10032) with ESMTP id oP906wEU5MnT; Mon, 30 Dec 2024 11:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ECE63C123865; Mon, 30 Dec 2024 11:56:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.cs.ucla.edu 8ECE63C123865 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.ucla.edu; s=9D0B346E-2AEB-11ED-9476-E14B719DCE6C; t=1735588599; bh=ODEdcq3R6XVzikC0kiyCb76vgAWvv3+eXmDrGiWYIN0=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From; b=hJgjRfbqpkP2H+BQWzdNaJwwokRAPnACXPpJz0vQvTv1bXsx1MBl4BBJVsbk9LLYL gOYArefqNeuMPExrjpgKi2I839cQzi7dokSzQQuzLasfRgJZauOGqQhkmVr69HF9Ej YldZU1Cifw1a1MozYn0X1pQse9XNdmu6FL552Um/QNbR7F1KC7sDTDice3pDP8ZsYY ATC5bf4nxt8Iwqqw1ZBV56wnOm75dTSFzFXeVb0RW+X4e8rTNkX9I+LmF9oNpyXxkt Fbe2fDUIQHSGO/5jaKkHfqyIlDwm5FlcPC6tndBVd5x0Ev+rEm5rWPZ7FViwa3B1QQ 10RkwIxVproRA== X-Virus-Scanned: amavis at mail.cs.ucla.edu Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10026) with ESMTP id RLyriBbBqiy3; Mon, 30 Dec 2024 11:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.254.12] (unknown [47.154.28.214]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 710293C123864; Mon, 30 Dec 2024 11:56:39 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6I3xshYHVySsht8G71rKjp1a" Message-ID: <7bccf4cc-3181-44c7-9090-50c7b6215303@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2024 11:56:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#75208: Please mention "date %D considered harmful" in manpage To: Tim Connors References: <5130f14e-91e1-a3a1-b189-4cbdb9817e7e@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <5130f14e-91e1-a3a1-b189-4cbdb9817e7e@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 75208-done Cc: 75208-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6I3xshYHVySsht8G71rKjp1a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the suggestion. I installed the attached. Although it doesn't go quite as far as your suggestion, it should adequately warn people who pay attention to warnings. --------------6I3xshYHVySsht8G71rKjp1a Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-date-improve-doc-for-ambiguous-formats.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-date-improve-doc-for-ambiguous-formats.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RnJvbSBhMGMzZTU2NDhiZTk3MjdkMWUyZTE4ZjE4ZjE0M2M2MTlmODI1NzA2IE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBQYXVsIEVnZ2VydCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1 PgpEYXRlOiBNb24sIDMwIERlYyAyMDI0IDExOjM4OjU2IC0wODAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRD SF0gZGF0ZTogaW1wcm92ZSBkb2MgZm9yIGFtYmlndW91cyBmb3JtYXRzCgpQcm9ibGVtIHJl cG9ydGVkIGJ5IFRpbSBDb25ub3JzIDxodHRwczovL2J1Z3MuZ251Lm9yZy83NTIwOD4uCiog ZG9jL2NvcmV1dGlscy50ZXhpIChEYXRlIGNvbnZlcnNpb24gc3BlY2lmaWVycyk6Ciogc3Jj L2RhdGUuYyAodXNhZ2UpOgpXYXJuIGFib3V0IGFtYmlndW91cyBmb3JtYXRzIGxpa2UgJUQu Ci0tLQogZG9jL2NvcmV1dGlscy50ZXhpIHwgMTEgKysrKysrKystLS0KIHNyYy9kYXRlLmMg 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Received: from smtp.rather.puzzling.org ([122.199.47.107]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 41be03b00d2f7-842dcaca43bsm17562691a12.66.2024.12.30.05.14.14 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 30 Dec 2024 05:14:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from dirac.rather.puzzling.org (dirac.rather.puzzling.org [192.168.1.17]) by smtp.rather.puzzling.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 840FD201FB for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2024 00:14:07 +1100 (AEDT) Received: by dirac.rather.puzzling.org (Postfix, from userid 738) id 5974720CDD; Tue, 31 Dec 2024 00:14:07 +1100 (AEDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dirac.rather.puzzling.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 505781FE14 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2024 00:14:07 +1100 (AEDT) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 00:14:07 +1100 (AEDT) From: Tim Connors To: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Subject: Please mention "date %D considered harmful" in manpage Message-ID: <5130f14e-91e1-a3a1-b189-4cbdb9817e7e@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.214.177; envelope-from=tim.w.connors@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-f177.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.196, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 30 Dec 2024 13:29:50 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) America is the only country to use %m/%d/%y. Since American programmers seem to assume its a good format to use in their scripts (after all, the manpage states: "%D: date"), it would be a good idea if the man/infopage came with a big fat warning like: "%D is considered harmful because for the vast majority of people on the planet, it will be confusing to read for most of the year, but is completely ambiguous for the first 12 days of each month and could be interpreted as %d/%m/%y or %m/%d/%y -- most of the world have traditionally interpreted dates as %d/%m/%y, but most are moving to %Y/%m/%d which is unambiguously understood everywhere. Use something like `date --rfc-3339=date' or +%Y/%m/%d if you wish to uniquely identify a date, which has the bonus of sorting trivially". (There is a metric buttload of system software out there using date +%D, such as debian's checksecurity, that should never have been encouraged to assume that they could give the user a locale-ised date because of the existence of the nice handy "%D" shortcut; the mere existence of something that claims "%D: date" would lead you to assume it was safe and encouraged to use!) -- Tim Connors ------------=_1735588622-16678-1--