GNU bug report logs - #7507
24.0.50; GDB dialog: default should not be `Yes' if GDB is not installed

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 24.0.50;
	GDB dialog: default should not be `Yes' if GDB is not installed
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 08:52:46 -0800

Why does the question asking whether I want to debug with GDB have `Yes'
as the default value if I don't even have GDB installed?  That obliges
users to pick up the mouse and click `No' instead of just hitting RET.
If you try to answer `Yes' you just get into trouble: That provokes a
Microsoft error, letting you send lots of interesting info to MS for
`GNU Emacs: The extensible self-documenting text editor'.  I.e., `Yes'
=> Microsoft dialog box: `Send Error Report' or `Don't Send'.

In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2010-11-22 on 3249CTO
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4) --no-opt --cflags
-Ic:/imagesupport/include'

Message #8 received at 7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#7507: 24.0.50;
 GDB dialog: default should not be `Yes' if GDB is not installed
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 00:56:44 +0200

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> Why does the question asking whether I want to debug with GDB have `Yes'
> as the default value if I don't even have GDB installed?  That obliges
> users to pick up the mouse and click `No' instead of just hitting RET.
> If you try to answer `Yes' you just get into trouble: That provokes a
> Microsoft error, letting you send lots of interesting info to MS for
> `GNU Emacs: The extensible self-documenting text editor'.  I.e., `Yes'
> => Microsoft dialog box: `Send Error Report' or `Don't Send'.

When does Emacs ask whether you want to debug something with GDB?  I
can't recall it ever asking me that...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #11 received at 7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#7507: 24.0.50; GDB dialog: default should not be `Yes' if GDB
 is not installed
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:09:16 -0700 (PDT)

> When does Emacs ask whether you want to debug something with GDB?  I
> can't recall it ever asking me that...

When Emacs crashes (if you're lucky), on MS Windows, at least.

Message #14 received at 7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams <at> oracle.com
Subject: Re: bug#7507: 24.0.50;
 GDB dialog: default should not be `Yes' if GDB is not installed
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 08:20:37 +0300

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 00:56:44 +0200
> Cc: 7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:
> 
> > Why does the question asking whether I want to debug with GDB have `Yes'
> > as the default value if I don't even have GDB installed?  That obliges
> > users to pick up the mouse and click `No' instead of just hitting RET.
> > If you try to answer `Yes' you just get into trouble: That provokes a
> > Microsoft error, letting you send lots of interesting info to MS for
> > `GNU Emacs: The extensible self-documenting text editor'.  I.e., `Yes'
> > => Microsoft dialog box: `Send Error Report' or `Don't Send'.
> 
> When does Emacs ask whether you want to debug something with GDB?  I
> can't recall it ever asking me that...

This is about the Emacs Abort dialog that Emacs displays only on
MS-Windows.

FWIW, I don't think trying to detect whether GDB is installed when
displaying that dialog is a reasonable request.  That dialog is
displayed when Emacs is already in bad trouble, so embarking on a
non-trivial journey trying to find gdb.exe somewhere on the system,
which involves issuing quite a few system calls, doesn't sound like a
good idea.

The standard dialog popped up by Windows in similar situations
includes the "Debug" button even if debugging tools are not installed,
so I think we don't do anything preposterously unreasonable here.

Message #17 received at 7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams <at> oracle.com
Subject: Re: bug#7507: 24.0.50;
 GDB dialog: default should not be `Yes' if GDB is not installed
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:38:32 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> > Why does the question asking whether I want to debug with GDB have `Yes'
>> > as the default value if I don't even have GDB installed?  That obliges
>> > users to pick up the mouse and click `No' instead of just hitting RET.
>> > If you try to answer `Yes' you just get into trouble: That provokes a
>> > Microsoft error, letting you send lots of interesting info to MS for
>> > `GNU Emacs: The extensible self-documenting text editor'.  I.e., `Yes'
>> > => Microsoft dialog box: `Send Error Report' or `Don't Send'.

[...]

> FWIW, I don't think trying to detect whether GDB is installed when
> displaying that dialog is a reasonable request.  That dialog is
> displayed when Emacs is already in bad trouble, so embarking on a
> non-trivial journey trying to find gdb.exe somewhere on the system,
> which involves issuing quite a few system calls, doesn't sound like a
> good idea.

But presumably Emacs has to do the `executable-find' thing to call gdb,
anyway?  And ending up in a situation where we're offering to send a bug
report to Microsoft sounds less than optimal...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #20 received at 7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams <at> oracle.com
Subject: Re: bug#7507: 24.0.50;
 GDB dialog: default should not be `Yes' if GDB is not installed
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:12:19 +0300

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
> Cc: drew.adams <at> oracle.com,  7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:38:32 +0200
> 
> > FWIW, I don't think trying to detect whether GDB is installed when
> > displaying that dialog is a reasonable request.  That dialog is
> > displayed when Emacs is already in bad trouble, so embarking on a
> > non-trivial journey trying to find gdb.exe somewhere on the system,
> > which involves issuing quite a few system calls, doesn't sound like a
> > good idea.
> 
> But presumably Emacs has to do the `executable-find' thing to call gdb,
> anyway?

No.  The user is instructed (in the dialog text) to attach GDB to the
running Emacs process.  So it's the user who should know how to invoke
GDB, Emacs doesn't.

> And ending up in a situation where we're offering to send a bug
> report to Microsoft sounds less than optimal...

If the user doesn't want to debug Emacs, she should click "No", or
type TAB, then RET, and then no report will be sent anywhere.

Message #23 received at 7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 7507 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams <at> oracle.com
Subject: Re: bug#7507: 24.0.50;
 GDB dialog: default should not be `Yes' if GDB is not installed
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:15:55 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> No.  The user is instructed (in the dialog text) to attach GDB to the
> running Emacs process.  So it's the user who should know how to invoke
> GDB, Emacs doesn't.

Aha.  Then I agree with you -- there's nothing here to fix.  Closing.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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