From unknown Sat Jun 21 05:16:38 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#7465: 24.0.50; transient-mark-mode customization UI is confusing Resent-From: Stephen Berman Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:18:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 7465 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 7465@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.129043902325736 (code B ref -1); Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:18:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Nov 2010 15:17:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PKY8d-0006h2-5e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 10:17:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PKY8a-0006go-Jp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 10:17:01 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PKYDT-0003OV-S1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 10:22:16 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD,T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:43463) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PKYDT-0003OO-PM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 10:22:03 -0500 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=43566 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PKYDF-0005c4-O8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 10:22:03 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PKYD2-0003HL-46 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 10:21:49 -0500 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22]:39884 helo=mail.gmx.net) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PKYD1-0003Gp-MH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 10:21:36 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 22 Nov 2010 15:21:33 -0000 Received: from i59F550DC.versanet.de (EHLO escher.home) [89.245.80.220] by mail.gmx.net (mp018) with SMTP; 22 Nov 2010 16:21:33 +0100 X-Authenticated: #20778731 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+U4dF7QN6UZTo3OdAsgQrZ6NJ2BIHyLUNf+rcJea zG5WqO67UDGi99 Received: by escher.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 719C910448; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:21:41 +0100 (CET) From: Stephen Berman Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:21:41 +0100 Message-ID: <8739qtl6yi.fsf@escher.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----) 1. emacs -Q 2. M-x customize-option RET transient-mark-mode RET => The complete text of the doc string is displayed, as usual, but here it is confusing, because the values `lambda' and `(only . OLDVAL)' cannot be entered, since only toggling on-off is allowed. As noted in the Elisp manual, these values are intended for Lisp programs, so they should not be mentioned in the Custom interface, which is concerned with user settings. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.18.6) of 2010-11-22 on escher Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.10605000 configured using `configure '--without-toolkit-scroll-bars'' From unknown Sat Jun 21 05:16:38 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#7465: 24.0.50; transient-mark-mode customization UI is confusing Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:12:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7465 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: "'Stephen Berman'" , <7465@debbugs.gnu.org> Received: via spool by 7465-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B7465.129044228427213 (code B ref 7465); Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:12:02 +0000 Received: (at 7465) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Nov 2010 16:11:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PKYzD-00074s-Pn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 11:11:24 -0500 Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PKYzB-00074n-EM for 7465@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 11:11:21 -0500 Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id oAMGGZVi032512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:16:36 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id oAMGGXLl003795; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:16:35 GMT Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 801734361290442501; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 08:15:01 -0800 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 22 Nov 2010 08:15:00 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" References: <8739qtl6yi.fsf@escher.home> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 08:15:00 -0800 Message-ID: <4A6EC880811E4A759A6B050E7ABFE3E6@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <8739qtl6yi.fsf@escher.home> Thread-Index: AcuKXaqphGoT+FTXSBe3UQLhXGYhXAAAbnvQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) > The complete text of the doc string is displayed, as usual, > but here it is confusing, because the values `lambda' and > `(only . OLDVAL)' cannot be entered, since only toggling > on-off is allowed. As noted in the Elisp manual, these > values are intended for Lisp programs, so they should not > be mentioned in the Custom interface, which is concerned with > user settings. Users, even users of Customize, can also use Emacs Lisp. The complete doc string should always be available in Customize, and the Lisp interface should be described in the doc string (not just the Customize interface). However, you have a point in that the Lisp description is not identified as such here, so this text can indeed be confusing to users. The correct fix is to introduce the description of the Lisp values by saying that these are the values used in Lisp code. Also, the text should not say that "non-nil _also_ enables highlighting...", for this highlighting is a big part of what t-m mode is all about. Please remove "also" here. From unknown Sat Jun 21 05:16:38 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#7465: 24.0.50; transient-mark-mode customization UI is confusing Resent-From: Chong Yidong Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2010 21:10:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7465 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stephen Berman Cc: 7465@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 7465-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B7465.129149699414572 (code B ref 7465); Sat, 04 Dec 2010 21:10:03 +0000 Received: (at 7465) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2010 21:09:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1POzMf-0003mz-Va for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 16:09:54 -0500 Received: from vm-emlprdomr-04.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.145]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1POzMe-0003mo-RY for 7465@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 16:09:53 -0500 Received: from furball (dhcp128036014248.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.248]) (authenticated bits=0) by vm-emlprdomr-04.its.yale.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id oB4LFe6j013030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 4 Dec 2010 16:15:40 -0500 Received: by furball (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DBB3E16059F; Sat, 4 Dec 2010 16:15:39 -0500 (EST) From: Chong Yidong References: <8739qtl6yi.fsf@escher.home> Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2010 16:15:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: <8739qtl6yi.fsf@escher.home> (Stephen Berman's message of "Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:21:41 +0100") Message-ID: <874oatz1c4.fsf@stupidchicken.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 130.132.50.145 X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Stephen Berman writes: > The complete text of the doc string is displayed, as usual, but here it > is confusing, because the values `lambda' and `(only . OLDVAL)' cannot > be entered, since only toggling on-off is allowed. As noted in the > Elisp manual, these values are intended for Lisp programs, so they > should not be mentioned in the Custom interface, which is concerned with > user settings. I noted explicitly in the docstring that these values are meant for Lisp. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 04 16:10:08 2010 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Dec 2010 21:10:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1POzMu-0003nk-7e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 16:10:08 -0500 Received: from vm-emlprdomr-03.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.144]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1POzMs-0003nJ-TT for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 16:10:07 -0500 Received: from furball (dhcp128036014248.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.248]) (authenticated bits=0) by vm-emlprdomr-03.its.yale.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id oB4LFst9022096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Dec 2010 16:15:54 -0500 Received: by furball (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6466D16059F; Sat, 4 Dec 2010 16:15:54 -0500 (EST) From: Chong Yidong To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: close 7465 Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2010 16:15:54 -0500 Message-ID: <87pqthgrxx.fsf@stupidchicken.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.71 on 130.132.50.144 X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) close 7465 thanks